Pare Leo down and make it a plugin

[tfer]

There have been some discussions in the past on what we might do to make Leo more popular.  I've recently had some time out in the woods and was hit with a tack that just might do that.

If you do anything in the world of JavaScript you're aware of ability to use it and nodejs frameworks to build standalone apps.  In fact, there are two popular editors that use that technology, there is Github's Atom, and Microsoft's Visual Code.

So here is what I'm proposing, make Leo into a plug-in for Visual Code.  We'd need to pare down Leo, dropping the Qt code and using html and JavaScript to build a Outline pane (Note that the file browser pane works as a tree view of directories so we can steal some code from there).  There is already support for a log, (shell).  The editor pane would just have to be hooked up to the Outline pane and set to the relevant language.  It's perfectly possible to use both JavaScript and Python in such an app.

We would have the advantage and visibility of latching on to a popular and growing editor, get features for free that would likely never get into Leo and move over to what is becoming the most popular visual toolkit for interface design, one based on Html, CSS, and JavaScript. 

[Viktor Ransmayr]

Hello community,

I'd be very interested in such an experiment & would provide personal input & support.

With kind regards,

Viktor Ransmayr

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[Chris George]

I had three criteria drive me to Leo, and nothing has changed in half a decade or more.

1. Linux support and not as an afterthought.

2. Offline support, simply because the requirement of the Internet is a brittle requirement that relies on a lot of things going right for a lot of people every day.

3. Outliner with clones. I can find 5 or 6 that have this that are online. But Leo is the only one that doesn't require being online.

Given that I haven't run a Microsoft operating system since 2001 on my personal computer, step one, which is to chain Leo to a single OS/App pairing, I have no interest. But then IANAP, I am a writer and that is what I use Leo for.

Chris

[Viktor Ransmayr]

Hello Chris,

I think the proposal made can fully support your criterias, which I fully support.

Both Visual Studio Code & Atom are available on Linux & do not require Internet Access. - So far they only miss Outlines with clones - but - they offer a lot of 'infrastructure', which Leo as an environment will (most likely) never get ...

I think it is interesting to discuss what would be needed to create a "Leo experience" in another environment.

With kind regards,

Viktor

[Chris George]

Hi Viktor,

A great simplification of Leo would still leave it feature rich for a writer. I have often wondered if that would crack that market for Leo.

As Twain said though, I wrote a long letter as I didn't have time to write a short one.

Chris

[Chris George]

Hi Viktor,

Sorry, I was unfamiliar with code.

Both it and atom are editors. Leo is an editor and then some.

It would be interesting to write a "code" Leo or a "atom" Leo, somewhat like Edward wrote a "vim" Leo. Make it keystroke and gui identical (Leo encompasses all of the functions of either/or) and then enjoy the added features of Leo with the exact same functionality of both.

I see Leo as far more than an editor and have stuck with it for so long as the small subset of features I need is constantly expanding. That said, both atom and code also far surpass what I need in an editor.

Chris

[Viktor Ransmayr]

Hi Chris,

This is exactly how I interpreted the idea from 'tfer'. - Don't add more & more to Leo. - Try to distill the 'essence' of Leo and make this available in Atom or Visual Studio Code (VSC).

[Edward K. Ream]

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 8:18 PM, 'tfer' via leo-editor <leo-e...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

There have been some discussions in the past on what we might do to make Leo more popular.  I've recently had some time out in the woods and was hit with a tack that just might do that.

​

[snip]

So here is what I'm proposing, make Leo into a plug-in for Visual Code.  We'd need to pare down Leo, dropping the Qt code and using html and JavaScript to build a Outline pan

​e.

​This is a big question, and one that has been discussed partially before.  We could probably list dozens of sub-items that might be of interest.

I have only a few minutes now, but I'd like to say what I think is the most important message, namely that doing such a thing is

1. A very big project and

2. A project that has the potential to do more harm than good.

3. There may be better alternatives, or not.

Point 1 should be obvious to any programmer.  Just picking a reasonable widget set could easily become a full-time job.

Point 2 is debatable.  I'm not asserting that it is true, but I would be surprised if it weren't true.

Again, this is a huge question.  I would suggest that people think carefully of the consequences.

Edward

[tfer]

I looked into this further and, at this time, Edward is right, you can't easily mix Python with the JavaScript-based Visual Code.  Paring things down and translating into JavaScript is way too ambitious.  There are a few projects that are taking aim at allowing browser based technology to be coupled to Python, (and other languages), but such stuff is down the line.

As others have mentioned elsewhere, I think the thing to do is give Leo the ability to use neovim as an editor alternative.  I'll talk more about that in another post.

[Kent Tenney]

+1 Embedding neovim would be brilliant.

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[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:35 PM, 'tfer' via leo-editor <leo-e...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I looked into this further and, at this time, Edward is right, you can't easily mix Python with the JavaScript-based Visual Code.

​Snip​

​

​

As others have mentioned elsewhere, I think the thing to do is give Leo the ability to use neovim as an editor alternative.  I'll talk more about that in another post.

​I'm glad we are having this conversation.

I'm never going to love vim, in any form, but that's not really important.  What is important is to integrate Leo with other tools, such as emacs, vim, and particularly (imo) ipython.  I'll say more about this in a new thread.

Edward