Installation docs - improvements suggested

[lewis]

Hi Edward,

In response to some of the installation documentation issues raised at binary installer.
I hope you will bear with me as I suggest some improvements to the install procedures. I know you have the view that "Instead, installing the latest version of Leo using git will likely be much simpler, especially after installing Anaconda first.
In the time you have spent futzing with installers, you could have installed Anaconda and git, and even learned the rudiments of git."

However this isn't what a newbie is encouraged to do when they correctly go to Leos docs and try to install.

First - at Downloading, Installing & Running Leo ( http://leoeditor.com/getting-started.html )
 > Downloading Leo http://leoeditor.com/download.html
Installing Leo
  > Installing Leo itself ( http://leoeditor.com/installing.html#installing-leo-itself ) is actually an obsolete duplicate of Downloading Leo. Some of it's links are very out of date.
I think you can remove 'Installing Leo itself' from the docs.

Here are reasons why it is obsolete (and why Todd and Ross are maybe frustrated..... )
My suggestions are in italics, and explain why it's best to remove this section:

 1. Download the latest stable release from SourceForge. This release contains an executable installer. This release will usually be a bit out of date.
    (the stable release link here is out of date. It goes to http://sourceforge.net/projects/leo/files/Leo/4.11%20final/ which resolves to https://sourceforge.net/projects/leo/files/
There is no executable installer in leo-5.4.zip (9.3MB) There is no other executable installer here unless you got to the 5.4-final folder.)
    Suggestion - remove the extra link to Sourceforge.net - It serves no purpose relevant to installing Leo.

 2. Download a nightly snapshot from Leo’s snapshots page. This page contains .zip archives of Leo’s code from 1, 2, 5, 10, 30 and 90 days ago.
 Suggestion - remove the extra link to snapshots. The link should be updated from http://www.greygreen.org/leo/ to http://leoeditor.com/download.html#snapshots

 3. Download Leo’s latest sources from GitHub using git. Installing git is easy, and once set up this is the easiest way to get the latest version of Leo’s code:


Second - If I go from the homepage to [Download Leo] http://leoeditor.com/download.html
A few obsolete links here. Good news - the snapshot links at 2. are up to date :)
Leo’s core code is always being improved and developed. Unit-testing ensures that the daily commits are as bug-free as possible (Suggestion - remove this does a newbie really need this detail?). Almost all of the time, downloading Leo’s latest sources from GitHub (Suggestion - remove these Giuthub links. They are too early, and take you to git with NO instructions) is going to give you code that is more stable than the most recent latest stable release. Stable releases become outdated almost immediately. (Suggestion - again, remove stable release links. They are duplicates, increasing maintenance)
If you are just checking Leo out, feel free to use the latest stable release download if it makes you feel more secure, but once you’ve decided to work with Leo on a regular basis, we highly recommend regularly keeping your installation up to date with the most recent nightly snapshot, (Suggestion - again, remove obsolete release links. They are duplicates, increasing maintenance) or even better, Leo’s latest sources from GitHub (Suggestion - again, remove Github links. They are duplicates, increasing maintenance).... [snip]

Surely most newbies would follow this advice as it appears simple. Simple is good, the least threatening, and free of suggestions to use git. However it is not explicit about what to download. You need to go down to the 5.4-final folder for a windows executable installer. It's here that Ross went to 'Quick install' and ended up with ver 5.2 Leo. Suggestion - focus on the latest Leo you know and love, and archive the old versions. Users won't go to 'Archive' would they? surely not ;)

Suggestion - If you really want to encourage people to use Git maybe a more focussed page would help the take-up. Hey, you even encouraged me to use it!

Hope you appreciate my comments. I found it hard to get all this down as I almost got a headache discovering the duplicate sections etc. I don't envy anyone doing docs.
This is always a hard issue to deal with and I look forward to your comments and any other comments from Leo users.

Many Thanks
Lewis

[Ross Burnett]

Thanks for that Lewis.

I have a simple question: why isn't there a simple one file installation .exe for Windows? 

I realize that to use this for python development, one would need python installed, and to create a gui application, one would need PyQT or some other graphic package.

But if I just wanted to use it as a PIM or to write documentation, or a dozen other uses, I shouldn't need python installed.

I plan to use python to create a Windows desktop application to use at work and to deploy to other business analysts, most of whom have little or no programming experience. There is simply no way I could get them or management to accept a program that needs the kind of installation overhead that Leo requires. I doubt very few other python-based applications could get any traction if they had a similar overhead.

I've been thinking of the trials of trying to get Leo working as a sort of entrance exam.  You don't get to play unless you're really committed and have a lot of development experience going in.

Is it the built-in functionality that requires a separate python and QT that would not be possible as a simple standalone application?  

Could there be a simpler version that doesn't allow the advanced functionality, and an advanced version that does?

Could Leo be structured like PyCharm or any other IDE where you simply install the package and then update the settings to point to the python installation you want to use?

Thanks.

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Ross Burnett <rost...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a simple question: why isn't there a simple one file installation .exe for Windows? 

​There is such a thing.  It's ​

 here.​ 

​ This installs everything you need to run Leo, including python and all libraries. Is this not working for you?

EKR

[Ross Burnett]

I unzipped LeoAppFolder and executed LeoApp and it did start up Leo, but it did not create a Leo icon on the desktop or in Start, and there is no launchLeo included in the package.

I also can't find python.exe in the package, so it's using the python i already had installed?

Did you mean to point to a different link?

[Edward K. Ream]

​​

On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Ross Burnett <rost...@gmail.com> wrote:

I unzipped LeoAppFolder and executed LeoApp and it did start up Leo, but it did not create a Leo icon on the desktop or in Start, and there is no launchLeo included in the package.

​So what?
​

 

I also can't find python.exe in the package, so it's using the python i already had installed?

​The package contains python27.dll and many other .dll and .pyd files.​

 

Did you mean to point to a different link?

​No.  I meant what I said. leo.exe is, indeed, a stand-alone version of Leo. Nothing else is required. You can create a link to it and put it on the desktop.

Having said this, I don't recommend the stand-alone version of Leo. Downloading Anaconda is easier in the long run.  A gazillion scientists use Anaconda as the base of IPython.  Anaconda gives you pip, and once you have pip installing other packages is a snap. And once you pip install git, keeping Leo up-to-date with git pull is also a snap.

In short, focusing on one-step installation is counter-productive in the long run. Anaconda, pip and git are tools worth a little work to get.

EKR

[Ross Burnett]

I appreciate the quick response.

​So what?

I thought this was a simple one file install where one could reasonably expect an equally simple way of restarting the program, like 99% of Windows installs. 

​

 

​No.  I meant what I said. leo.exe is, indeed, a stand-alone version of Leo. Nothing else is required. You can create a link to it and put it on the desktop.

Creating a shortcut - that I can do, but am unable to locate leo.exe in the installation.  The only .exe I could find is LeoApp  

Re: most recent sourceforge page (Home / Leo / 5.4-final)  - is there documentation about the various downloads? Some are mentioned in the Leo doc pages, but not in detail.

I believe in the awesomeness of your system, and really, really want to learn and use it, but I guess I need to become more educated about the various tools that are needed for development and deployment, which I need to do anyway. I've been developing in Cobol for IBM mainframes off and on since the early '70's when I used to power up and IPL a 360-30 with 64k ram and load my programs via the cardreader when I worked on the weekends.  But Cobol is not so good for windows desktop apps.

Thanks again,

RSB

[Edward K. Ream]

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Ross Burnett <rost...@gmail.com> wrote:

Re: most recent sourceforge page (Home / Leo / 5.4-final)  - is there documentation about the various downloads? Some are mentioned in the Leo doc pages, but not in detail.

​I have just uploaded ​

 

​readme.md and Readme-quick-install.txt.  I forgot to do so, and have just added an item to the distribution checklist to remind me. These two files should answer all your questions.  If not, please ask away here.

EKR

[lewis]

Hi Edward,

Can you please update the readme .md link above and create an entry in https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/tree/master/leo/doc for readme .md

I think that is a better place as it presents the readme.md document properly formatted in a browser, rather than having to view it manually after downloading from sourceforge.

Thanks
Lewis