eicha etnachta

[Jeremy Rosenbaum Simon]

A bit of a survey. I have heard the etnachta of eicha (in the Eastern
European trup, if that matters) done two different ways. One is just
like a sof pasuk, and the other (e.g., on R. Weider's site) more or
less like a Zakef katon. How do people here do it?

--
Jeremy

[Zev Sero]

Like a sof pasuk.

--
Zev Sero "Natural resources are not finite in any meaningful
z...@sero.name economic sense, mind-boggling though this assertion
may be. The stocks of them are not fixed but rather
are expanding through human ingenuity."
- Julian Simon

[AMK Judaica]

i do it like a sof pasuk, although when i hear others do this it sounds funny. (naturally when i do it, it sounds fine.) have you checked places like the jewish encyclopedia to see how they recorded it?
 
kol tuv,
ari

Ari Kinsberg
MA, PharmD, RPh
Brooklyn, New York
**************

Click here to register as a bone marrow donor. It's the easiest way to save a child's life.

 

> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 23:13:35 -0400
> Subject: [leining] eicha etnachta
> From: jeremy...@nyu.edu
> To: lei...@googlegroups.com

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leining" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lei...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to leining+u...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leining?hl=en.
>

[Jeremy Rosenbaum Simon]

Do you know the title of the relevant entry? (I am always happy for an
excuse to pull my hard copy of the JE off the shelf.)

--
Jeremy R. Simon, MD, PhD, FACEP
Associate Clinical Professor of Medicine (Emergency Medicine)
Scholar-in-Residence, Center for Bioethics
Columbia University

[AMK Judaica]

Jeremy:

 
"I am always happy for an excuse to pull my hard copy of the JE off the shelf."
 

me too. hence i just double checked for you. s.v. "cantillation," which deals with musicology. (there is a separate entry under "accents" for technical aspects.) you might also try books such as binder and rosowsky.

kol tuv,
ari

Ari Kinsberg
MA, PharmD, RPh
Brooklyn, New York
**************

Click here to register as a bone marrow donor. It's the easiest way to save a child's life.

 

> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 23:49:47 -0400
> Subject: Re: [leining] eicha etnachta

[Mark Symons]

The way that I'm aware of to differentiate an etnachta from a sof-pasuk is to do a different tipcha (more elaborate, final sounding) before the SP (which I think some reserve just for a Sof-Perek). I do it for many of the SP's to avoid boredom.

And while on the topic of eicha, virtual cantor has a great (hauntingly melodious, or perhaps melodiously haunting) version of the alternative trop for Ch 3.

Mark S

[Ephie]

Personally I do it as a sof pasuk, which is what I grew up hearing. But roughly 2/3 of the baalei keria in my shul do it the other way. Since it is logical to me to differentiate, I once tried to do so, but it was too hard for me to consistently undo what I was used to for so many years, so I stuck with doing both the same way.
Ephraim

[Aryeh Moshen]

My eastern version is the same as a Sof Pasuk.

From: Ephie <jecg...@aol.com>
To: "lei...@googlegroups.com" <lei...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: [leining] eicha etnachta

Personally I do it as a sof pasuk, which is what I grew up hearing.  But roughly 2/3 of the baalei keria in my shul do it the other way.  Since it is logical to me to differentiate, I once tried to do so, but it was too hard for me to consistently undo what I was used to for so many years, so I stuck with doing both the same way.
Ephraim



On Jul 24, 2012, at 11:13 PM, Jeremy Rosenbaum Simon <jeremy...@nyu.edu> wrote:

> A bit of a survey. I have heard the etnachta of eicha (in the Eastern
> European trup, if that matters) done two different ways. One is just
> like a sof pasuk, and the other (e.g., on R. Weider's site) more or
> less like a Zakef katon. How do people here do it?
>
> --
> Jeremy
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leining" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lei...@googlegroups.com.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to leining+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leining?hl=en.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leining" group.
To post to this group, send email to lei...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to leining+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

[Giorgies E. Kepipesiom]

On Jul 24, 11:18 pm, Zev Sero <z...@sero.name> wrote:
> On 24/07/2012 11:13 PM, Jeremy Rosenbaum Simon wrote:
>
> > A bit of a survey. I have heard the etnachta of eicha (in the Eastern
> > European trup, if that matters) done two different ways. One is just
> > like a sof pasuk, and the other (e.g., on R. Weider's site) more or
> > less like a Zakef katon. How do people here do it?
>
> Like a sof pasuk.

I too. But But I am not following any mesora from my teachers, having
in fact received none regarding Aicha. I merely try to do as few
embelishments as possible, to get through it quickly, as it is too
depressing to dwell upon. And in most years I try to find some other
korban to leyn it so I can escape altogether.

GEK

[MP]

Like Mark S., I would (if asked) lein the pre-silluq tipcha differently; in response to Jeremy's Q, I would draw out the word graced with the silluq.  Such is my memory of how Eichah was leined in KAJ/"Breuer's."

Mark S

> >> leining+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/leining?hl=en.
> >>
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "leining" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lei...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > leining+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/leining?hl=en.
>
>
>
> --
> Jeremy R. Simon, MD, PhD, FACEP
> Associate Clinical Professor of Medicine (Emergency Medicine)
> Scholar-in-Residence, Center for Bioethics
> Columbia University
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leining" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lei...@googlegroups.com.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to leining+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leining?hl=en.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leining" group.
To post to this group, send email to lei...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to leining+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Jay Braun]

Glad you like the alternative trope for Perek 3. I learned it from
Cantor Pinchas Rabinovicz, who currently lives in Lakewood, NJ. And
kudos to my friend Josh Sharfman who established and maintains the
virtualcantor site; he invited me to record Eicha and Esther a few
years ago.

btw, I chant etnachta and sof-pasuk identically. The different
tip'cha is a nice idea, though I save it for the end of the perek.

-- Jay

On Jul 25, 12:01 am, Mark Symons <mssym...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The way that I'm aware of to differentiate an etnachta from a sof-pasuk is
> to do a different tipcha (more elaborate, final sounding) before the SP
> (which I think some reserve just for a Sof-Perek). I do it for many of the
> SP's to avoid boredom.
>
> And while on the topic of eicha, virtual cantor has a great (hauntingly
> melodious, or perhaps melodiously haunting) version of the alternative trop
> for Ch 3.
>
> Mark S
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 2:00 PM, AMK Judaica <amkjuda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >  Jeremy:
>
> > "I am always happy for an excuse to pull my hard copy of the JE off the
> > shelf."
>
> > me too. hence i just double checked for you. s.v. "cantillation," which
> > deals with musicology. (there is a separate entry under "accents" for
> > technical aspects.) you might also try books such as binder and rosowsky.
>
> > kol tuv,
> > ari
>
> > Ari Kinsberg
> > MA, PharmD, RPh
> > Brooklyn, New York
> > **************
>

> > Click here <https://www.dkmsamericas.org/register> to register as a bone

> > marrow donor. It's the easiest way to save a child's life.
>
> > > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 23:49:47 -0400
> > > Subject: Re: [leining] eicha etnachta
>

> > > From: jeremy.si...@nyu.edu
> > > To: lei...@googlegroups.com
>
> > > Do you know the title of the relevant entry? (I am always happy for an
> > > excuse to pull my hard copy of the JE off the shelf.)
>

> > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 11:46 PM, AMK Judaica <amkjuda...@hotmail.com>

> > wrote:
> > > > i do it like a sof pasuk, although when i hear others do this it sounds
> > > > funny. (naturally when i do it, it sounds fine.) have you checked
> > places
> > > > like the jewish encyclopedia to see how they recorded it?
>
> > > > kol tuv,
> > > > ari
>
> > > > Ari Kinsberg
> > > > MA, PharmD, RPh
> > > > Brooklyn, New York
> > > > **************
>
> > > > Click here to register as a bone marrow donor. It's the easiest way to
> > save
> > > > a child's life.
>
> > > >> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 23:13:35 -0400
> > > >> Subject: [leining] eicha etnachta

> > > >> From: jeremy.si...@nyu.edu

> >http://groups.google.com/group/leining?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Giorgies E. Kepipesiom]

On Jul 25, 3:56 pm, Jay Braun <lyngw...@aol.com> wrote:
> Glad you like the alternative trope for Perek 3.  I learned it from
> Cantor Pinchas Rabinovicz, who currently lives in Lakewood, NJ.

Alternative trope? Is the alternative melody actually trope? I am no
expert, but to my ear the melodies do not correspond to any of the
written tropes in the text.

GEK

[Aryeh Moshen]

I have heard some Chassidim use it.  I would not call it a standard trop.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leining" group.
To post to this group, send email to lei...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to leining+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

[Jay Braun]

You are correct, of course. It is not trope, but a nusach that was
used in some communities for the kinot/kinos.

-- Jay

On Jul 25, 4:23 pm, "Giorgies E. Kepipesiom" <kepipes...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

[Zev Sero]

On 25/07/2012 8:26 PM, Aryeh Moshen wrote:
> I have heard some Chassidim use it. I would not call it a standard trop.

RGEK's point is that it's not a trop at all. It bears no relation to the
taamim. It's just a traditional tune for the 3rd chapter.

[Jay Braun]

Yes, everyone agrees that it's not trop. I just wanted to express my
appreciation to the poster who complimented it, and used the same
term. No harm, no foul.

On virtualcantor, it's simply marked "Alternate".

j

[Avram Herzog]

Hi,

 

I too use an alternate for Perek 3 that I learned from a ba'al k'riah in my hometown (Mpls.), and have heard yet another, a variation on the same theme, where I currently live (Fair Lawn, NJ).  As I haven't yet listened to the recording in question (I imagine I'll like it and recognize it), I can't vouch for whether it's one of these two or perhaps another variation.

 

KT,

Avi H

 

 

On 07/25/12, Giorgies E. Kepipesiom<kepipesiom@hotmail.com> wrote:

 

On Jul 25, 3:56 pm, Jay Braun lyngw...@aol.com> wrote:
> Glad you like the alternative trope for Perek 3.  I learned it from
> Cantor Pinchas Rabinovicz, who currently lives in Lakewood, NJ.

Alternative trope? Is the alternative melody actually trope? I am no
expert, but to my ear the melodies do not correspond to any of the
written tropes in the text.

GEK

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leining" group.

To post to this group, send email to leining@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to leining+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.