hosafos

[Nehemiah Klein]

The long sheni this Shabbos reminded me of an old rule we had in our shul which I have never seen a source for and I cannot for the life of me think of a reason for it.  We were makpid that you do not break up the first two aliyos - the reason I do not understand is that the breaking up into seven aliyos, though there is a standard minhag most people follow, it is not halacha leMoshe miSinai and why should it matter what you call Sheni, Shlishi, etc.  Given that I have heard it from many people, there must be some validity to it, so I therefore do not add hosafos in the first two aliyos.  Anybody else ever heard of this and can anyone give a sevara - remember it seems to be fairly widespread so do not knock it, just either explain it or point to sources which seem to state explicitly otherwise.

[Meir BenChayim]

     Perhaps someone extrapolated improperly from Ki Tissa, where one should indeed not make hosafot in the first two aliyot, so that the parsha of the eigel hazahav is read by a leivi.
 
Meir
 

---

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:43:49 +0300
Subject: [leining] hosafos
From: kle...@gmail.com
To: lei...@googlegroups.com

The long sheni this Shabbos reminded me of an old rule we had in our shul which I have never seen a source for and I cannot for the life of me think of a reason for it.  We were makpid that you do not break up the first two aliyos - the reason I do not understand is that the breaking up into seven aliyos, though there is a standard minhag most people follow, it is not halacha leMoshe miSinai and why should it matter what you call Sheni, Shlishi, etc.  Given that I have heard it from many people, there must be some validity to it, so I therefore do not add hosafos in the first two aliyos.  Anybody else ever heard of this and can anyone give a sevara - remember it seems to be fairly widespread so do not knock it, just either explain it or point to sources which seem to state explicitly otherwise.

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[kitzur]

I think there's a similar "restriction" in פרשת מסעי (when it comes
out on its own), not to split any of the מסעות (I think there's a
Tosefta that says this). Which becomes problematic at the end of the
first aliyah, which ends with the first pasuk of "ויסעו".

On Jul 25, 11:15 am, Meir BenChayim <meir...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>      Perhaps someone extrapolated improperly from Ki Tissa, where one should indeed not make hosafot in the first two aliyot, so that the parsha of the eigel hazahav is read by a leivi.
>
> Meir
>

> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:43:49 +0300
> Subject: [leining] hosafos

> From: klei...@gmail.com

> To: lei...@googlegroups.com
>
> The long sheni this Shabbos reminded me of an old rule we had in our shul which I have never seen a source for and I cannot for the life of me think of a reason for it.  We were makpid that you do not break up the first two aliyos - the reason I do not understand is that the breaking up into seven aliyos, though there is a standard minhag most people follow, it is not halacha leMoshe miSinai and why should it matter what you call Sheni, Shlishi, etc.  Given that I have heard it from many people, there must be some validity to it, so I therefore do not add hosafos in the first two aliyos.  Anybody else ever heard of this and can anyone give a sevara - remember it seems to be fairly widespread so do not knock it, just either explain it or point to sources which seem to state explicitly otherwise.
>
> --
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[Zev Sero]

kitzur wrote:
> I think there's a similar "restriction" in פרשת מסעי (when it comes
> out on its own), not to split any of the מסעות (I think there's a
> Tosefta that says this). Which becomes problematic at the end of the
> first aliyah, which ends with the first pasuk of "ויסעו".

Not a problem. Those who hold that one shouldn't split the maso'os
hold that that "sheni" note is bogus, and rishon goes all the way
through till what the chumashim call "shlishi". Sheni takes up half
of what the chumashim call "shlishi".

--
Zev Sero The trouble with socialism is that you
z...@sero.name eventually run out of other people’s money
- Margaret Thatcher

[Dror Maor]

OK, but what do they do on the previous Shabbos Mincha & Monday/Thursday, when the Maso'os begin at posuk 10, so you only wind up having 9 pesukim to lein? Is it like Purim morning where we say "היכא דאסתלק ענינא" and therefore you can stop, or is that only allowed on Purim since we're reading about "breaking up" Amalek?

http://www.kitzur.net - Learn Kitzur Shulchan Aruch Daily

[Zev Sero]

Dror Maor wrote:
> OK, but what do they do on the previous Shabbos Mincha &
> Monday/Thursday, when the Maso'os begin at posuk 10, so you only wind up
> having 9 pesukim to lein?

Huh? How do you reckon that? Rishon goes all the way through to the end
of the masa'os; that's *way* more than 10 pesukim!

[Nehemiah Klein]

The restriction of not stopping in the middle of the masa'os I believe is limited to Shabbos when you are going to read all of them, it does not apply to Monday/Thursday.  Similarly, the stops for Ha'azinu are predefined with roshei tevos HAZIV LACH (see Gemara Rosh Hashana quoted by Shulchan Aruch), this does not apply to Monday/Thursday given that you are not reading the whole parsha anyway, as is evident by the fact that all siddurim break up what is normally the first aliyah on Shabbos into two

[Dror Maor]

I'm talking about the entire leining of Monday/Thursday morning, where Masos's leining ends with the first travel: "וַיִּסְעוּ מֵאֵילִם וַיַּחֲנוּ עַל יַם סוּף", exactly the 10th pasuk.

http://www.kitzur.net - Learn Kitzur Shulchan Aruch Daily

[Nehemiah Klein]

Yes, the restriction does not apply to Monday/Thursday, only if you read the whole thing then do not break it up, on Monday/Thursday you do not read the whole thing.  So reading through pasuk 10 is fine even according to those who say not to break it up.

[Dror Maor]

Good proof Nehemia, but I was told by a prominent Posek (I think he said it in the name of Rav Shneiur Kotler zt"l, but I'm not 100% sure of that), that the hakpada is on Mon/Thurs too. tzarich iyun.

http://www.kitzur.net - Learn Kitzur Shulchan Aruch Daily

[Zev Sero]

Dror Maor wrote:
> I'm talking about the entire leining of Monday/Thursday morning, where
> Masos's leining ends with the first travel: "וַיִּסְעוּ מֵאֵילִם וַיַּחֲנוּ עַל יַם
> סוּף", exactly the 10th pasuk.

Who says it stops there? According to those who don't break up the
masa'os, it doesn't.

[Dror Maor]

That's how the siddurim have it.

This agav leads to another discussion about those few times that the siddurim say something, but the main halachic seforim (Mishna Berura, etc.) say differently. Do you follow the generally accepted minhag of the siddur, or the straight halacha?

http://www.kitzur.net - Learn Kitzur Shulchan Aruch Daily

[Meir BenChayim]

     Although there is a recent chumra to read all 42 masa'ot on Shabbat mincha/Monday/Thursday, the overwhelming majority do not.  The reason for not interrupting is kabbalistic: the 42 masa'ot are intertwined somehow with the Divine 42-letter name, which should not be broken up.  Its source is, according to the Mishna Berura, from a sefer titled Tzeror Hamor.  However, the majority feel that if not all are read, there is then no allusion to the Divine name, and so no problrm with interrupting after the first.
 
Meir
 

---

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:44:09 +0300
Subject: Re: [leining] Re: hosafos
From: kle...@gmail.com
To: lei...@googlegroups.com

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[Zev Sero]

Dror Maor wrote:
> That's how the siddurim have it.

Which siddurim? And who told them to print it that way? The printer
is now a rov? Those who hold that you can break up the masa'os put
sheni there and have no problem; those who hold that you don't, don't,
and also have no problem.

> This agav leads to another discussion about those few times that the
> siddurim say something, but the main halachic seforim (Mishna Berura,
> etc.) say differently. Do you follow the generally accepted minhag of
> the siddur, or the straight halacha?

Who says the siddur-printers' whims are any sort of "generally accepted
minhag"?

[Dror Maor]

פוק חזי מאי עמא דבר

(go see what everybody's doing)

http://www.kitzur.net - Learn Kitzur Shulchan Aruch Daily

[rjhe...@juno.com]

Hi
My custom is to 1st try and divide up the latter aliyoth.
However if the only way I can do that is to violate the "rule" of not ending or beginning with a bad topic then I divide up the 1st few aliyoth.

I think it important to emphasize that the NUMBER OF HOSAFOT is one factor. What do you do when there is a simchah and many people are in from out of town. The only way out is EITHER to end on a bad topic or break up early aliyahs. I will EVEN use the MON/THUR stops if necessaary.

My own opinion is the prohibition of breakup of early aliyoth is so as not to cause an atmosphere of burdening the community (But if it is a simchah they expect many aliyoth and the reason does not apply)

Russell

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[Nehemiah Klein]

I am asking, is this your own custom or have you heard of this as being almost a halacha, as I believe many people think.  If so, do you have any source for it?

[Jeremy Rosenbaum Simon]

I heard that R. Soloveitchik actually objected to this M/Th break down for ha'azinu.

Jeremy

----- Original Message -----
From: Nehemiah Klein <kle...@gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, July 25, 2010 4:44 am
Subject: Re: [leining] Re: hosafos

To: lei...@googlegroups.com

> > leining+u...@googlegroups.com<leining%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Henry Goodman]

----- Original Message -----
From: <rjhe...@juno.com>
To: <lei...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: <rjhe...@juno.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 12:09 PM
Subject: [leining] hosafos

Hi
My custom is to 1st try and divide up the latter aliyoth.
However if the only way I can do that is to violate the "rule" of not ending
or beginning with a bad topic then I divide up the 1st few aliyoth.

I think it important to emphasize that the NUMBER OF HOSAFOT is one factor.
What do you do when there is a simchah and many people are in from out of
town. The only way out is EITHER to end on a bad topic or break up early
aliyahs. I will EVEN use the MON/THUR stops if necessaary.

My own opinion is the prohibition of breakup of early aliyoth is so as not
to cause an atmosphere of burdening the community (But if it is a simchah
they expect many aliyoth and the reason does not apply)

Russell
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you mean by only way out? The other way is not to make so many
hosafot. Surely not all the many people from out of town are chiyuvim? Here
in London it was customary about 30 years ago to make multiple hosafot for a
simchah but that doesn't happen any more and it is quite rare for there to
be even an acharon.

Henry Goodman
email henry....@virgin.net

[Aryeh Moshen]

Correct.

[Nehemiah Klein]

I would venture to say that there are very few shuls today, even those populated by his talmidim, who follow this.

[AMK Judaica]

as i've commented before, my attitutude toward hosafot is defined by whether i'm the baal kore or a mitpalel. if the former, then i want as many hosafot as possible. if the latter, as few as possible (i.e., none).
 
russel, in this case i agree with henry. shuls need to have very specific policies regarding kibbudim for semachot. there is no reason why every guest or family member needs a kibbud, or specifically an aliyah. this is where the gabbai has to put his foot down. (i guess an exception would be on a shabbat when quintuplet boys are bar mitzva). if the baal hasimcha complains that his third cousin flew in from tanzania and deserves something, give him an extra piece of kugel at kiddush.
 
two of the shuls i used to daven in regularly made many hosafot, regardless of whether nor not there was a simcha. this, together with never-ending misheberachs (the two seem to go hand-in-hand), turned the leining into a veritable zoo.
 
on the other hand, the shul i currently daven in seems to have a policy a zero-tolerance policy toward hosafot and yesterday was the first time i remember there being one. but the gabbai rishon was absent and i think the hosafah was to straiten out some confusion. (and if the gabbai rishon is reading, he didn't hear this from me :) )
 
shavuah tov,
ari kinsberg

 

> What do you mean by only way out? The other way is not to make so many
> hosafot. Surely not all the many people from out of town are chiyuvim? Here
> in London it was customary about 30 years ago to make multiple hosafot for a
> simchah but that doesn't happen any more and it is quite rare for there to
> be even an acharon.
>
> Henry Goodman
> email henry....@virgin.net
>

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[Giorgies E. Kepipesiom]

On Jul 25, 4:15 am, Meir BenChayim <meir...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>      Perhaps someone extrapolated improperly from Ki Tissa, where one should indeed not make hosafot in the first two aliyot, so that the parsha of the eigel hazahav is read by a leivi.
>

This happened while I was enjoying my stay as a guest at one of the
Federal Governments finer establishments. We had a minyan, but no
sefer Torah, save occasionally when a visiting Habad rabbi came to
spend Shabbas with us and brought a scroll with him. It was Shabbos
parasha Ki-Sissa. We had a kohen among us, but no Levi, and so the
kohen took both first aliyos, which amount to two thirds of the entire
parasha. After mussaf it was late enough for Mincha Gedloa, whicn we
proceeded to pray at that time because the authorities would not give
us another prayer break until evening. And so the kohen again took the
fist two aliyos, again amounting to two thirds of the reading. The
visiting rabbi did the Torah leining, but I was honoured with maftir,
which in the event was parashas Para, and afforded me the opportunity
to display my erudition by repeating l'eineichem/l'eineihem in the
haftara.

GEK

GEK

[Giorgies E. Kepipesiom]

On Jul 25, 7:09 am, "rjhen...@juno.com" <rjhen...@juno.com> wrote:
> Hi
> My custom is to 1st try and divide up the latter aliyoth.
> However if the only way I can do that is to violate the "rule" of not ending or beginning with a bad topic then I divide up the 1st few aliyoth.
>
> I think it important to emphasize that the NUMBER OF HOSAFOT is one factor. What do you do when there is a simchah and many people are in from out of town.  The only way out is EITHER to end on a bad topic or break up early aliyahs. I will EVEN use the MON/THUR stops if necessaary.
>
> My own opinion is the prohibition of breakup of early aliyoth is so as  not to cause an atmosphere of burdening the community (But if it is a simchah they expect many aliyoth and the reason does not apply)

Why not? Wheere is it written that all the guests at a simcha must
receive aliyos? In fact, where is it written that ANY of them must
receiva an aliya, beyond the chassan himself, or the bar mitzva lad
himself? Is it not sufficient that the rest of us, who are regular
mispallelim a the minyan and not connected to the simcha, have to
listen to a guest displaying his vocal prowess at the amud, and an
extra long speech (if not several speeches), and now we are to be
burdened with a prolonged Torah reading because of numerous added
aliyos, and the attendant mi shebeirachs? Were i running things, I
would do away with all hosafos, all chazzonus, all speeches. The devar
Torah can just as easily be delivered at the quiddush after services,
when we are all in a relaxed mood over herring and kuegel, and those
not interested in hearing the speeches are free to leave.

GEK

[Nehemiah Klein]

What I have seen at many bar mitzvahs lately is that to avoid hosafos, the father of the Bar Mitzvah usually does not take an aliyah at his son's bar mitzvah.

[Giorgies E. Kepipesiom]

On Jul 25, 10:15 am, Nehemiah Klein <klei...@gmail.com> wrote:

> What I have seen at many bar mitzvahs lately is that to avoid hosafos, the
> father of the Bar Mitzvah usually does not take an aliyah at his son's bar
> mitzvah.
>

How does this help? It spares us one aliya. But what about the bar
mitzva boy's brothers (one of them up-and-coming gedolim who took a
brief leave of absence from his yeshiva and is "botteling zman" to be
here), two grandfathers, three uncles on the father's side and four on
the mother's, Cousin David who flew in all the way from Bueneos Aeres,
and Chayyim Yankel Froomjew, a very old family friend? Not to mention
some very prominent rabbonim and roshei yeshiva who are present for
the occasion, and it would be a great sin to slight them by not giving
an aliya (and there is the danger that one or more of them might be so
insulted that he will refuse to demonstrate his peh mapiq margoliyos
when asked to speak). And come to think of it, why should the lad's
father, of all people, be the one not to have an aliya?

GEK

[rabbiri...@gmail.com]

Nehemiah
«by the fact that all siddurim break up what is normally the first aliyah on Shabbos into two»

IIRC [if I recall correctly] edot mizrach does not make this divide of rishon

Shalom
RRW

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

---

From: Nehemiah Klein <kle...@gmail.com>

Sender: lei...@googlegroups.com

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:44:09 +0300

To: <lei...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: lei...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [leining] Re: hosafos

[Isaac Friedman]

A possible solution might be to tell the gabbai "if you want to give everyone an aliya like Simchas Torah, make the Simchas Torah misheberachs," i.e. משברך את האבות וכו

If somebody REALLY insists on an endless misheberach the gabbai can make it בעבור שידור הנאה על קידושא רבא היום. You will never see that individual again and the baal simcha will probably thank you (unless it's his brother.)

GEK

[AMK Judaica]

Nehemiah:
 
i'm going to have to agree with GEK (for once!). how does it help to have 4 hosafot instead of 5? and quite frankly, it's quite silly for another relative to get an aliyah at the father's expense. even if the father is willing to give up his kibbud, i think it's hutzpah on the part of a guest to accept the kibbud in his place.
 
shavuah tov,
ari kinsberg

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[Giorgies E. Kepipesiom]

On Jul 25, 10:59 am, AMK Judaica <amkjuda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Nehemiah:
>
> i'm going to have to agree with GEK (for once!). how does it help to have 4 hosafot instead of 5? and quite frankly, it's quite silly for another relative to get an aliyah at the father's expense. even if the father is willing to give up his kibbud, i think it's hutzpah on the part of a guest to accept the kibbud in his place.

Four instead of 5? How about 24 instead of 25? Let us not forget,
there may not even be all 8 aliyoos (regular 7 plus maftir) available.
In some shules sh'lishi is reserved for the rav, in other shules
shishi. Maftir may be reserved for a jahrzeit. The tochacha usually
goes to the baal qeria. Special portions such as Shiras Hayam, Aseres
Hadibros and the like are reserved for the rav. On Shabbos Chazaq,
sh'vi'i may have been sold. And if none of the simcha guests is a
kohen or levi, the first two aliyos are not available to them.

GEK
not wishing to make too much of a point out of it, but you have agreed
with me more than once just in the past day or two.

[JECg...@aol.com]

Speaking as the gabbai rishon in my shul, as well as occasional baal koreh, we have policies on the number of aliyot you are allowed to have for various types of smachot (e.g. four for a bar mitzva, three for an auf ruf), as well as which other occasions do or do not entitle you to an aliya (e.g. yahrzeit for a parent but not for a sibling).  If necessary, the baal simcha chooses which people will get his "allotment".  People are not always happy, but it does seem preferable to the alternative.  And while we rarely have more than one hosafa, when we do it's for good reason, typically multiple smachot. 

However, this may not be desirable for very large minyanim.

Ephraim

 

In a message dated 7/25/2010 10:15:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kle...@gmail.com writes:

What I have seen at many bar mitzvahs lately is that to avoid hosafos, the father of the Bar Mitzvah usually does not take an aliyah at his son's bar mitzvah.

[Dror Maor]

Ari, even as a BK I prefer NOT to have the hosafot, since my mind is pre-programmed where the aliyos end :)

http://www.kitzur.net - Learn Kitzur Shulchan Aruch Daily

--

[AMK Judaica]

DROR:
 
well then i guess you come better prepared than i do :)
 
who decides on where to stop for hosafot depends on the shul. sometime i decide, sometimes the gabbai decides and sometimes we decide together. but in any case, i never where remember to stop and it is the gabbai's obligation to signal me when i get to the final pasuk.
 
kol tuv,
ari kinsberg
 

---

From: dror....@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:44:51 +0300
Subject: Re: [leining] hosafos
To: lei...@googlegroups.com

[Zev Sero]

Dror Maor wrote:
> פוק חזי מאי עמא דבר
> (go see what everybody's doing)

עולם גולם

[Dror Maor]

גוט געזאגט

http://www.kitzur.net - Learn Kitzur Shulchan Aruch Daily

[Saul Guberman]

I heard about the situation when I came for Mincha.  I was at a bar mitzvah & aufruf where they did not have hosafahs.   Our Minyan (Yavneh Minyan of Flatbush) has a policy of no hosafahs.  I tend to hold hagbah & gelilah until Shevi, just in case someone walks in who feels they should have an aliyah.   I remember adding hosafahs on 4 occasions.  Just the other week at Matos/Massie we had the same issue as you had this week.  Aliyos are given out at the end of the repition. No Cohen was there at the time.  As I started to call up the first aliyah in walked a Cohen.  Instead of taking an aliyah away from someone, we decided to add a hosafah.  A Shabbos that had a bar mitzvah, aufruf and Yahrzeit on Shabbos day that required 2 additions.  A Cohen who had just gotten engaged & was visiting his mother for Shabbos walked in during leining, and he would not be back in the community for a while.  A Levi who had been out sick for sometime & came in during leining.

I allow the Baal Korie to make the decision as to where to make the hosafah.  He is the one who has to do the leining.

Saul   

[AMK Judaica (Ari)]

i assume that a preference not to break up the first two aliyot is to
avoid a misunderstanding whereby someone (e.g., a latecomer) might not
realize that a hosafah had been made and wonder why a yisrael is
getting kohen/levi.

one thing the koren tikkun is good for is that it includes recommended
places to make hosafot by the rav of akko (edited by meir medan, who
also distinguished between more preferred and less preferred stops).
there are plenty of places in koren where hosafot are indicated in the
first two aliyot.

i just checked quickly in shaarei ephraim and didn't see anything
about not stopping in the first two aliyot.

the question i raised when i brought up the hosafot issue on mahpach
is why (in my experience at least) the preference is to postpone
hosafot to as late as possible ni the parshah (and if there is only
one, to make it at maftir). is there any reason to prefer that hosafot
be made at the end?

i prefer to make hosafot earlier because a) it leavse room in case
last minute hosafot are required; b) it lets me break up what might
otherwise be a long or difficult aliyah

(also, something that has been pointed out recently and should be kept
in mindhere is that whole framework of where we stop for aliyot may be
of relatively late vintage.)

kol tuv,
ari kinsberg




On Jul 24, 11:43 pm, Nehemiah Klein <klei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The long sheni this Shabbos reminded me of an old rule we had in our shul
> which I have never seen a source for and I cannot for the life of me think
> of a reason for it.  We were makpid that you do not break up the first two
> aliyos - the reason I do not understand is that the breaking up into seven
> aliyos, though there is a standard minhag most people follow, it is not
> halacha leMoshe miSinai and why should it matter what you call Sheni,
> Shlishi, etc.  Given that I have heard it from many people, there must be
> some validity to it, so I therefore do not add hosafos in the first two
> aliyos.  Anybody else ever heard of this and can anyone give a sevara -
> remember it seems to be fairly widespread so do not knock it, just either
> explain it or point to sources which seem to state explicitly otherwise.

[Nehemiah Klein]

There are solutions, for example you can say ONLY family, no Rabbanim, that way no one is slighted.  I have bli ayin hara several boys, none get an aliyah at the younger brother's Bar Mitzvah.  It all depends how important it is to you not to have hosafos, for those who are accustomed to it and see nothing wrong with it, fine.  But for those who would rather not be matriach the tzibbur for their simcha, there are "politically correct" ways out of it.  The first one to be mevater should be the father.  The grandfathers should be given no matter what, even instead of a Rosh Yeshiva, Rav, etc.  If you view it as an iron-clad rule you will find solutions, if you view it as "ideal" but ... then it will be harder - everyone should do what he is accustomed to.  There are other kibbudim - the family eats together, honor one of them to speak or to lead Birkas HaMazon - I have made a few Bar Mitzvahs and have found solutions to this problem without hosafos (and my wife's father and her brothers are Leviim - only my father-in-law got out of their side).

GEK

[Dror Maor]

I agree 100% - tell your guests ahead of time that the shul's policy is not to make hosafos, so please don't be offended. You can make your "hosafos" in speeches, bentching, etc., like Nehemiah said, or maybe even better, personally introduce the guest/relative to your Rav on Friday night right after davening, that'll probably carry more weight.

As far as tircha d'tzibura goes, I try to be makpid on it and never give the gabbai all my children's names after an aliyah. I just have him say my wife's name, and "וכל יוצאי חלציה", besides for that I'm afraid of an ayin hora.

I certainly don't appreciate it when someone gets an aliyah, and starts rattling off all his sons + daughters + sons-in-law + daughters-in-law + all their children's specific names. (I guess if you like to learn bein gavra l'gavra than it's not so bad :)

http://www.kitzur.net - Learn Kitzur Shulchan Aruch Daily

[Jonathan Baker]

For my bar-mitzvah, we broke up shishi (lech lecha), mostly because
there's a natural stuma break after "v'et hayevussi". LSS at that
time had a huge enough crowd every week that they needed a hosafa
(only one IIRC) almost every week, particularly if there was a
bar-mitzvah or aufruf, with relatives, yahrzeits, etc.

On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 5:44 PM, AMK Judaica (Ari)
<amkju...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> one thing the koren tikkun is good for is that it includes recommended
> places to make hosafot by the rav of akko (edited by meir medan, who
> also distinguished between more preferred and less preferred stops).
> there are plenty of places in koren where hosafot are indicated in the
> first two aliyot.

--
jon baker         |   blog: http://thanbook.blogspot.com
tha...@gmail.com  | web: http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker

[Jonathan Baker]

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 4:04 AM, Dror Maor <dror....@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree 100% - tell your guests ahead of time that the shul's policy is not
> to make hosafos, so please don't be offended.

Yes, make explicit policies, and think about the tzibbur - there are a
lot more of them, and they have to put up with your policies more,
than the family.. I went to a bar-mitzva at a Recon shul once. Guh.
Triennial reading, so very short, and hosafa upon hosafa upon hosafa
(ana hashem hosafa na'more). I lost count at aliyah 15 and they
weren't done.

I don't think they were paying attention to the rules about 3 psukim
from the beginning/end of a passage, etc. Just reading 3 psukim,
stop, 3 psukim, stop...