Re: [leining] kamatz katan
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Richard
May 1, 2014, 2:44:08 PM5/1/14
to Leining
«zahorayim/tzohorayim»
Also
Naomi.
It seems that according to the English Transliteration that the 1st syllable is a komatz gadol and the 2nd is a komatz katan.
NA - O - Me
Whether the English Scholars actually knew what they were doing or not is yet another topic.
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Shalom and Best Regards,
RRW
"If we cannot end our differences at least we can make the world safe for diversity." ~ John F. Kennedy
Richard
May 1, 2014, 2:48:58 PM5/1/14
to Leining, Rivka Sherman-Gold
whereas Koren is following modern Israeli pronuciation. »
And my friends call their Daughter NO-O-Me
I call her
NA-O-Me
And my friends call their Daughter NO-O-Me
I call her
NA-O-Me
Avram Herzog
May 1, 2014, 2:51:28 PM5/1/14
to lei...@googlegroups.com
Hi,
I'm not sure I agree with Aryeh. If that chataf kamatz were a regular shva (and it's only a chataf because it can't take a shva), then the preceding kamatz would be katan. So to me it makes sense that kamatz katan is more technically correct.
That said, in Eretz Yisrael nowadays you'll here both on virtually every word, including No'omi/Na'omi, and including Kabbalat Shabbat's "gam ra'u pho'oli/pha'oli".
KT,
Avi
On 05/01/14, 'Aryeh Moshen' via leining wrote:
In true Hebrew it is a Kamatz Gadol (although I am not sure why is some cases).
In Modern Israeli it is treated as a Kamatz Katan.
On Thursday, May 1, 2014 2:39 PM, Nachman Geker <nachma...@gmail.com> wrote:
When a kamatz comes before a chataf-kamatz, is it katan?
Examples are tzahorayim/tzohorayim and mimachorat/mimochorat.
Simanim and the Rinat Yisrael seem to say the first. New Koren editions seem to say the second.
Kol tuv,
Nachman A. Geker
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I'm not sure I agree with Aryeh. If that chataf kamatz were a regular shva (and it's only a chataf because it can't take a shva), then the preceding kamatz would be katan. So to me it makes sense that kamatz katan is more technically correct.
That said, in Eretz Yisrael nowadays you'll here both on virtually every word, including No'omi/Na'omi, and including Kabbalat Shabbat's "gam ra'u pho'oli/pha'oli".
KT,
Avi
On 05/01/14, 'Aryeh Moshen' via leining wrote:
In true Hebrew it is a Kamatz Gadol (although I am not sure why is some cases).
In Modern Israeli it is treated as a Kamatz Katan.
On Thursday, May 1, 2014 2:39 PM, Nachman Geker <nachma...@gmail.com> wrote:
When a kamatz comes before a chataf-kamatz, is it katan?
Examples are tzahorayim/tzohorayim and mimachorat/mimochorat.
Simanim and the Rinat Yisrael seem to say the first. New Koren editions seem to say the second.
Kol tuv,
Nachman A. Geker
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Richard
May 1, 2014, 2:54:18 PM5/1/14
to Leining
I'm not sure I agree with Aryeh. If that chataf kamatz were a regular shva (and it's only a chataf because it can't take a shva), then the preceding kamatz would be katan. »
I'm not sure that I agree
A closes syllable AFAIK has a sh'va nach
This hataf Kamatz replaces a sh'va na which aiui does not [necessarily] close the syllable.
EG Hochmah, the chaf has a sh'va na.
I'm not sure that I agree
A closes syllable AFAIK has a sh'va nach
This hataf Kamatz replaces a sh'va na which aiui does not [necessarily] close the syllable.
EG Hochmah, the chaf has a sh'va na.
Richard
May 1, 2014, 2:57:14 PM5/1/14
to Leining
WHOOPSIE!
A closed syllable AFAIK has a sh'va nach
EG Hochmah, the chaf has a sh'va naCH
This hataf Kamatz replaces a sh'va na which aiui does not [necessarily] close the syllable.
Avram Herzog
May 1, 2014, 2:59:18 PM5/1/14
to lei...@googlegroups.com
Hi Richard,
No, the chaf of chochmah is a nach, not a na.
Avi H
On 05/01/14, Richard wrote:
I'm not sure I agree with Aryeh. If that chataf kamatz were a regular shva (and it's only a chataf because it can't take a shva), then the preceding kamatz would be katan. »
I'm not sure that I agree
A closes syllable AFAIK has a sh'va nach
This hataf Kamatz replaces a sh'va na which aiui does not [necessarily] close the syllable.
EG Hochmah, the chaf has a sh'va na.
-----------------------------------------
Shalom and Best Regards,
RRW
"If we cannot end our differences at least we can make the world safe for diversity." ~ John F. Kennedy
No, the chaf of chochmah is a nach, not a na.
Avi H
On 05/01/14, Richard wrote:
I'm not sure I agree with Aryeh. If that chataf kamatz were a regular shva (and it's only a chataf because it can't take a shva), then the preceding kamatz would be katan. »
I'm not sure that I agree
This hataf Kamatz replaces a sh'va na which aiui does not [necessarily] close the syllable.
-----------------------------------------
Shalom and Best Regards,
RRW
"If we cannot end our differences at least we can make the world safe for diversity." ~ John F. Kennedy
Avram Herzog
May 1, 2014, 3:00:15 PM5/1/14
to lei...@googlegroups.com
Now that I see that Richard corrected himself, I retract my correction!
Avi H
On 05/01/14, Richard wrote:
WHOOPSIE!
A closed syllable AFAIK has a sh'va nach
EG Hochmah, the chaf has a sh'va naCH
This hataf Kamatz replaces a sh'va na which aiui does not [necessarily] close the syllable.
Avi H
On 05/01/14, Richard wrote:
A closed syllable AFAIK has a sh'va nach
EG Hochmah, the chaf has a sh'va naCH
This hataf Kamatz replaces a sh'va na which aiui does not [necessarily] close the syllable.
Yodan
May 1, 2014, 3:18:49 PM5/1/14
to lei...@googlegroups.com
My daughter and son-in-law call our granddaughter NAY-O-MI. (Yes, with a diphthong as is common in American pronunciation of this name.) OY!
My husband and I call her NO-O-MI (or, in short, Nomi).
She’s only 2 YO and doesn’t seem to care! J
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