going rate for bar mitzva tutor

[AMK Judaica]

what's the going rate in a place like teaneck for full parsha and haftara (package or per hour).
 
thanks,
ari

**********
Ari Kinsberg
MA, PharmD, RPh, Certified Immunizer
Brooklyn, New York
**************
Click here to register as a bone marrow donor. Save a life.

[Giorgies E. Kepipesiom]

On Feb 15, 2:14 pm, AMK Judaica <amkjuda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> what's the going rate in a place like teaneck for full parsha and haftara (package or per hour). thanks,ari
>

I queried two of our congregants who do BM instructions. Neither does
a package, because one never knows in advance how long the lad will
take to get it right (some never do), and parshiyos come in different
lengths. Here on UWS they charge $45 per hour. If family can't afford
it, too bad. BM lad layning full parsha is a luxury, not eligible for
charity.

GEK

[Jay Braun]

In the more affluent Orthodox communities of LA, rates can go as high as $80/hour for those considered expert.  One large synagogue here recently hired a cantor who will teach members' sons for a "discount" rate of $50 per lesson -- and I'm not sure that's for a full hour.  I haven't taught regularly for 30 years (my son was my last student), but at rates like that, semi-retirement sounds attractive!

 

-- Jay

[Bracha Jaffe]

Hi there,

I agree that you it's not worth doing a package deal - each student requires a different number of lessons. 

Bracha Jaffe

GEK

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[Yisroel D. Berger]

i didn't realize that i'm in an affluent area...
tutors here (lakewood) take 60+ an hour, and i feel that this area of expertise is entitled to more. i take $40/half hour lesson, so $80/hr. (i find half hour is perfect amount of time, as boy can't sit/concentrate for much longer.)
i do give a slight discount to klei kodesh though...
yisroel d berger



------------------------------

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 11:44 AM EST Jay Braun wrote:

>In the more affluent Orthodox communities of LA, rates can go as high as
>$80/hour for those considered expert. One large synagogue here recently
>hired a cantor who will teach members' sons for a "discount" rate of $50
>per lesson -- and I'm not sure that's for a full hour. I haven't taught
>regularly for 30 years (my son was my last student), but at rates like
>that, semi-retirement sounds attractive!
>
>-- Jay
>
>

[Aryeh Moshen]

I've given lessons to boys whose parents cannot afford the usual fees.  Whilst it is a luxury to the parents, every Jewish boy deserves a turn at bat.

From: Bracha Jaffe <bracha...@gmail.com>
To: lei...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [leining] Re: going rate for bar mitzva tutor

Hi there,

I agree that you it's not worth doing a package deal - each student requires a different number of lessons. 

Bracha Jaffe

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Giorgies E. Kepipesiom <kepip...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Feb 15, 2:14 pm, AMK Judaica <amkjuda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> what's the going rate in a place like teaneck for full parsha and haftara (package or per hour). thanks,ari
>
I queried two of our congregants who do BM instructions. Neither does
a package, because one never knows in advance how long the lad will
take to get it right (some never do), and parshiyos come in different
lengths. Here on UWS they charge $45 per hour. If family can't afford
it, too bad. BM lad layning full parsha is a luxury, not eligible for
charity.

GEK

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The power of words: change your words...change your world...

Bracha Jaffe

[R. Rich Wolpoe]

Whilst it is a luxury to the parents, every Jewish boy deserves a turn at bat.»

I agree. If the boy is capable let him learn and do the max.

If less capable, give him a shot at the subset that he can handle.


Shalom and Regards,
RRW

[Yodan]

Really? "If the family can't afford it, too bad"? Not even offering a discounted rate? Sad!!

 

Suggestion: If a community has families that cannot afford paying for tutoring their children for BM, how about setting up a fund for this purpose (administered by their synagogue) so that the community (and the tutor?) can make tax-deductible donations that will be used for needy families that cannot afford to pay for tutoring their BM child?

 

Rivka

--

[Yodan]

Aryeh Moshen, Kol HaKavod and Yishar Ko’ah to you!

 

Rivka

---

[Bracha Jaffe]

I do 50 minute lessons... I find that it's also important for the student to come after eating as it takes a lot of energy to sing and concentrate. 

[Giorgies E. Kepipesiom]

On Feb 17, 12:22 pm, "Yodan" <yo...@yodanpublishing.com> wrote:
> Really? "If the family can't afford it, too bad"? Not even offering a
> discounted rate? Sad!!

Don't blame the messenger. And it appears from what others write that
$45 is not even a very high rate. Perhaps it is not a full hour. I
will query at Mincha.

>
> Suggestion: If a community has families that cannot afford paying for
> tutoring their children for BM, how about setting up a fund for this purpose
> (administered by their synagogue) so that the community (and the tutor?) can
> make tax-deductible donations that will be used for needy families that
> cannot afford to pay for tutoring their BM child?

A pair of tefillin is a necessity. If families cannot afford it for a
BM lad, then it is the responsibility of the community to maintain a
fund to provide tefillin for the indigant. There is no requirement for
a BM lad to learn to leyn a parasha. Why should the community pay for
it? We are already contributing to innumerable charities to pay
medical bills, buriel costs, food, clothing, tuition, weddings, etc
for families who are unable to afford. Learning to leyn for BM is not
necessary. Nor should a congregation be burdened with having to listen
to the las leyning at their minyan. This is an imposition that even
the most elaborate kiddush following does not compensate for.

GEK

[Giorgies E. Kepipesiom]

On Feb 17, 12:17 pm, "R. Rich Wolpoe" <rabbirichwol...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Whilst it is a luxury to the parents, every Jewish boy deserves a turn at bat.»
>
> I agree. If the boy is capable let him learn and do the max.
> If less capable, give him a shot at the subset that he can handle.

I agree. But not on my dime. And if he wants to learn mila, he
deserves a chance at that too. But not on my---

GEK

[Avram Herzog]

Hi,

I don't know the going rate in Teaneck and surrounding areas, though I live in Fair Lawn, nearby.  While I don't know the going rate here, if there is one, I charge for B"M lessons the same I charge for standard tutoring, which while I prefer not to divulge, is significantly more than I've seen listed on this thread thus far.  I tell the parents what my going rate is, and if they feel it's too much I will certainly accept a lesser amount.

KT,

Avi H 

 

 

On 02/17/13, Giorgies E. Kepipesiom<kepip...@hotmail.com> wrote:

 

On Feb 15, 2:14 pm, AMK Judaica <amkjuda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> what's the going rate in a place like teaneck for full parsha and haftara (package or per hour). thanks,ari
>
I queried two of our congregants who do BM instructions. Neither does
a package, because one never knows in advance how long the lad will
take to get it right (some never do), and parshiyos come in different
lengths. Here on UWS they charge $45 per hour. If family can't afford
it, too bad. BM lad layning full parsha is a luxury, not eligible for
charity.

GEK

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[AMK Judaica]

GEK:
 
$45 sounds like very reasonable for UWS. maybe it is 1/2 hour? when disucussing prices we should also specify location (your home or student's).
 
Yisroel:
 
on the other hand i'm shocked at that rate in lakewood. for various reasons i would have expected lakewood to be on par with brooklyn, but i guess not.
 
AVRAM:

 
"I charge for B"M lessons the same I charge for standard tutoring"
 

i agree, although for various reasons this wouldn't work in brooklyn, where i live. but i don't understand why people expect to pay through the nose for a good math tutor, but then handl to no end for a bar mitzva tutor. (i would assume fairlawn is on par with teaneck as far as rates.)
 
BRACHA:

 
"it's not worth doing a package deal"
 

i'm surprised tutors agree to a package deal. unless it's for an exorbiant amount, tutor runs the risk (that inevitably presents itself i think) of giving more lessons than expected.

[Aryeh]

I live in Teaneck and charge way more than what others here are saying, whether by flat rate, as i prefer, or by the lesson. I have heard flat rates of around $3k here, with another charging $2-2.5k since it's a service to the community. I charge way more than $3k--i work with most kids for a good 14 months and it's just not worth my time otherwise. I agree, it's like tutoring, and I have paid tutors $90-$125/hr.

Aryeh Wiener

Sent from my iPhone

[AMK Judaica]

i wrote a response, but i'm not sure if i want to post it. i will just say in the meantime that all the handling (in the yiddish sense) i was subjected to during my years as a bar mitzva tutor (recently i've only done it for friends) left a very bad taste in my mouth. i am sympathetic to GEK's reticense to negotiate terms (although i do admit for exceptions).

[Yisroel D. Berger]

Aryeh W. : wow, that's great if you can get that much. I don't know how many hours a month for 14 months you're putting in, so the price per hour is unclear. i also wonder if there are other factors (e.g. maybe the kriah is on a weaker level so you need more time) that require so many months. i usually do it all in 9 months or less, depending on parsha size.
Ari: i didn't quite understand- are you saying brooklyn takes more or less than $80 currently? i had an aunt in brooklyn who paid $90 an hour and that was 4-5 years ago...
yisroel d berger



------------------------------

[AMK Judaica]

YISROEL:
 
less. i don't know why she paid so much.
on the one hand the tutoring market is saturated. on the other hand, relative to other communities people have less money to spend on this.

[Josh Hosseinof]

I don't normally do Bar Mitzvah lessons, but I have been asked on a couple of occasions and have done it since there were usually no local bar mitzvah tutors who could teach sephardic leining.  I found that the two boys in Teaneck that I taught both needed significant help in learning just to read/pronounce the words properly, and both went to jewish day schools and had Israeli fathers.  I won't comment on the price, as I did not request any specific price and told the parents to pay me whatever they thought was appropriate, as I knew that both were already struggling with the price of Yeshiva tuition.  I will say however that a lesson of 1 hour is probably too long, and I found that usually 35-45 minutes was the best length of time. 

I was also very surprised to find in Israel when I was teaching a boy his parasha, and this boy could read very well, there were some very surprising gaps in his knowledge of what he had learned in the mamlachti dati schools and yeshiva tichonit.  While he knew kamatz katan and sheva na because of the Tikkun he was using, he did not know what a "Mapiq" in a Heh was.   Also he had the common israeli problem of mixing up when to use "Ve-" and when to use "U-" at the beginning of a word.  As he had already learned part of the parasha with a different teacher, it was hard to undo some of the habits he had gotten into when reading.

[R. Rich Wolpoe]

« I found that the two boys in Teaneck that I taught both needed significant help in learning just to read/pronounce the words properly, and both went to jewish day schools and had Israeli fathers.»

We pay high tuition in Teaneck and produce Kids who butcher Ivri. And that includes the enthusiastically Zionist Schools. Imho It's a real "shanda". 






Shalom and Regards,
RRW

[Nehemiah Klein]

I have been living in Israel for 23 years and don't get me started on Israeli Hebrew pronunciation, I teach boys here and there are loads of issues that don't exist with Americans based on the mistakes in spoken Hebrew which have become ingrained (kivan d'al al).  I do not believe that Israelis necessarily have any advantage.  Out of the many that drive me crazy is etZEL rather than Etzel (adjacent) but there are so many more.  So don't expect any Zionistic schools in USA to be any better than chareidi schools in this matter and in many cases quite the contrary.  The only thing the Zionists will do is insist on Havara Sephardit, don't ask me why.

[AMK Judaica]

JOSHUA:

"I will say however that a lesson of 1 hour is probably too long"

my lessons are for an hour. i agree that 60 min of just sitting and learning the leining is too long. but i break it up with teiching (something i regret that i didn't insist on until relatively recently), dikduk lessons (mostly as it apples to proper ivre), trop theory, perhaps some dikduk or trop related perushim, etc. so in the end i don't think 60 min is a burden when it's broken up this way (at least i hope not)

"he did not know what a "Mapiq" in a Heh was"

i have no idea why this surprises you.

" Also he had the common israeli problem of mixing up when to use "Ve-" and when to use "U-" at the beginning of a word"

last year i spoke with the director of hebrew curriculum in my son's school about teachers who don't speak proper hebrew. one of the things i wanted to mention ve- vs. u- (although truthfully i'm not sure if that is considered an element of proper hebrew today per the academy of hebrew language. and i'm not looking here to debate the role of the academy in modern israel, suffice that i use it as a guide of what is and isn't considered "proper" modern hebrew). so i mentioned i heard a teacher ve-shemone. she didn't understand my point and only understood my concern was proper use of shemone vs. shemona

kol tuv,

ari

**********
Ari Kinsberg
MA, PharmD, RPh, Certified Immunizer
Brooklyn, New York
**************
Click here to register as a bone marrow donor. Save a life.

---

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 07:20:20 -0800
From: j...@hoss.net
To: lei...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [leining] Re: going rate for bar mitzva tutor

[R. Rich Wolpoe]

 So don't expect any Zionistic schools in USA to be any better than chareidi schools in this matter and in many cases quite the contrary. »

I know that now. But in my youth Yeshivah of Flatbush and Ramaz used to teach a good level of diction. So I expected Zionist Schools to follow suit. Yes my expectation was dashed.

But in one school, the principal did seem to have a full command of the topic, but apparently if failed to trickle down.

 The only thing the Zionists will do is insist on Havara Sephardit, don't ask me why.

Shalom and Regards,
RRW

[AMK Judaica]

NEHEMIAH:

i think the main benefit of havara sefaradit is that kids are more likely to get milel vs. milra correct. although of course, as your example shows, it doesn't always work.

kol tuv,
ari

**********
Ari Kinsberg
MA, PharmD, RPh, Certified Immunizer
Brooklyn, New York
**************
Click here to register as a bone marrow donor. Save a life.

---

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:06:20 +0200
Subject: Re: [leining] Re: going rate for bar mitzva tutor
From: kle...@gmail.com
To: lei...@googlegroups.com

[Nehemiah Klein]

I don't believe that a boy learning leining has any more mastery over mileil/milra whether he uses Sephardit or the more traditional Ashkenazi pronunciation, either way the principles need to be taught.  Trying to copy Israeli mistakes can only hinder one's growth.

[R. Rich Wolpoe]

In Hartford we had a Hebraicists named Mar Perkel. He was a big m'dakdeik. We learned ivris vb'ivris, not Zionist Hebrew. He caught mistakes as he heard them and set the tone for careful pronunciation even amongst the students not in his class. It didn't work 100% but it helped a lot.

Our Principal when I was in Jr. High was a m'dakdeik too. He lained meticulously and often corrected laining errors on Mon Thursday etc.

I still did not get all the rules. No one took the time to teach Masoretic principles, EG how a meseg might impact a dageish or an accent.

Still it was much better than what I see today.
Shalom and Regards,
RRW

[AMK Judaica]

NEHEMIAH:

i wouldn't say it's "mastery" in the sense that one know the rules better. but ashkenazis does tend to favor milel for everything, and that's a "handicap" for one who doesn't know the rules. now those who use sefaradit on the other hand may incorrectly hyper-emphasize and use milra when it should be milel, but on the whole milel vs. milra favors sefaradit.

kol tuv,
ari

**********
Ari Kinsberg
MA, PharmD, RPh, Certified Immunizer
Brooklyn, New York
**************
Click here to register as a bone marrow donor. Save a life.

---

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:13:38 +0200

[AMK Judaica]

RRW:

the curricular emphasis has shifted somewhat, and the nature of the teaching staff shifted greatly, since my days in schools. overall this has caused certain elements of jewish education to be very different today. (and i assume i'm a few years younger than you, so the changes are even more dramatic for you).

on the other hand, let's not romanticize what jewish education produced back in the day. to a large extent we are a self-selecting representative sample here. looking back at your classmates, do you really think you are typical of your cohort?
(and of course there is the question of quality vs. quantity. if you think the education isn't as good but it reaches many more kids today, what is better? although of course quantity and quality shouldn't be mutually exclusive. but all this is for another phorum.)

kol tuv,
ari

**********
Ari Kinsberg
MA, PharmD, RPh, Certified Immunizer
Brooklyn, New York
**************
Click here to register as a bone marrow donor. Save a life.

> Subject: Re: [leining] Re: going rate for bar mitzva tutor

> To: lei...@googlegroups.com
> From: rabbiri...@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:20:57 +0000

[AMK Judaica]

RRW:

just to point out one thing re. the time warp, you mentioned mar perkel. i too had a few mar (or dr.) plonis in school. try getting a job as a teacher of administrator in a day school today with the title of mar.

kol tuv,
ari

> Subject: Re: [leining] Re: going rate for bar mitzva tutor
> To: lei...@googlegroups.com
> From: rabbiri...@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:20:57 +0000
>
>

[R. Rich Wolpoe]

«on the other hand, let's not romanticize what jewish education produced back in the day. to a large extent we are a self-selecting representative sample here. looking back at your classmates, do you really think you are typical of your cohort?»

Not at all. But EG my sister and a whole bunch of us picked up nuances - even later on - because we were sensitized to them.

And at least the staff cared. Nowadays, they hardly put in an effort.
Shalom and Regards,
RRW

[R. Rich Wolpoe]

RRW:

just to point out one thing re. the time warp, you mentioned mar perkel. i too had a few mar (or dr.) plonis in school. try getting a job as a teacher of administrator in a day school today with the title of mar.

kol tuv,

ari»

Exactly. We've replaced dedicated educators with genuine mesiras nefesh with ???

I had an epiphany talking to a day school principal at a bar mitzvah a few years ago

The goal of the curiculum was to get to g'mara to please the consumers [namely the parents]

To me it's like a dentist giving all their patients teeth whiteners and ignoring the cavities, gum disease etc. It's all for show. Hitzoniyyus. B"H most of my educators were not like that. I realize the hashgachah p'ratis Ive had when I look back at my mentors from grade 1 thru Semichah.

EG Rav Heinemann was/is a top-rate baal dikduk and spenta good deal of time with us at Ner Israel on that. I think few others there cared that much.



Shalom and Regards,
RRW

[AMK Judaica]

RRW:

just to clarify, i didn't mean to imply that the difference between then and now was level of dedication. i don't think teachers today aren't dedicated. (i know i wouldn't last 3 minutes in a classroom.)

kol tuv,
ari

**********
Ari Kinsberg
MA, PharmD, RPh, Certified Immunizer
Brooklyn, New York
**************
Click here to register as a bone marrow donor. Save a life.

> Subject: Re: [leining] Re: going rate for bar mitzva tutor
> To: lei...@googlegroups.com
> From: rabbiri...@gmail.com

> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:41:59 +0000

[R. Rich Wolpoe]

RRW:

just to clarify, i didn't mean to imply that the difference between then and now was level of dedication. i don't think teachers today aren't dedicated. (i know i wouldn't last 3 minutes in a classroom.)

kol tuv,

ari»

I know that by and large the teachers are less dedicated.

But I also admit that the students are also more distracted and spoiled.

The teachers in my day got paid a pittance, did all kinds of extra -curricular stuff, taught at talmud torahs on the side, etc.

EG mar perkel used to hand transcribe plays in Hebrew for hanukkah and purim. When I played harbona, he gave me a hand written paper with my parts and my cues.

He'd write stories for us in Hebrew about "Avraham Lincoln" and George Washington when we observed their respective birthdays.

It took hours of work to do these things, no wordprocessors. No xeroxes, mimeographs. Occasionally Hebrew typewriters.

Since it was a small town, the teachers were seen in shul regualrly on shabbos. They were almost always on duty.


Shalom and Regards,
RRW

[Nehemiah Klein]

Those who talk Ashkenazis generally know that this is not the proper laining pronunciation, those who do Sephardit think it is, I don't believe speaking and learning in Ashkenazis is a handicap at all.

[R. Rich Wolpoe]

Those who talk Ashkenazis generally know that this is not the proper laining pronunciation, those who do Sephardit think it is, I don't believe speaking and learning in Ashkenazis is a handicap at all.»

Cute story

3 of us used to learn Rambam on Sunday Morning

"Abe" spoke modern Israeli hebrew

"Ike" is a Yekke and spoke Ashekenazi Hebrew

And me

So during learning I would read and converse in "Yeshivish". Abe couldn't believe that I could lain! Ike had to convinced him that learning in yeshivish did not mean that I lained that way, too.

Yes Nechemiah, the typical Israeli Hebrew speaker sees it as all-or-nothing. B"H there are exceptions.


Shalom and Regards,
RRW

[R. Rich Wolpoe]

« The only thing the Zionists will do is insist on Havara Sephardit, don't ask me why.»

This quote is originally from Nechemiah Klein as far as I can tell.


Shalom and Regards,
RRW

[R. Rich Wolpoe]

NK

« The only thing the Zionists will do is insist on Havara Sephardit, don't ask me why.»

RRW
«This quote is originally from Nechemiah Klein as far as I can tell.»

I'm not certain I even quoted it, although it might have been indavertently at the bottom of a post.




Shalom and Regards,
RRW

[R. Rich Wolpoe]

Yes indeed I inadvertently left it at the bottom of this post. And it stemmed from NK's previous post.

Sorry for any confusion.

I stand by the fact that I did not state this intentionally.



Shalom and Regards,
RRW

-----Original Message-----
From: "R. Rich Wolpoe" <rabbiri...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:10:54
To: Leining<lei...@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: rabbi.ri...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [leining] Re: going rate for bar mitzva tutor

[Giorgies E. Kepipesiom]

On Feb 18, 1:03 pm, "R. Rich Wolpoe" <rabbirichwol...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> He'd write stories for us in Hebrew about "Avraham Lincoln" and George Washington when we observed their respective birthdays.

Did he include a second lomed in Lincoln, Lomed/chirik - yood - noon/
schewa - koof/komatz - lomid/segol - long noon? That's how it is spelt
on the street sign in Jerusalem.

GEK

[R. Rich Wolpoe]

GEK:
«Did he include a second lomed in Lincoln, Lomed/chirik - yood - noon/ schewa - koof/komatz - lomid/segol - long noon? That's how it is spelt on the street sign in Jerusalem.»

He did include 2nd lamed and the long noon. I don't recall the vowels that clearly but

"Lomed/chirik - yood - noon/ schewa - koof" Seem correct
Shalom and Regards,
RRW