RE: a) Shma b) Trop on Emeth

[rjhendel]

Answers to Rabbi W and Giorgies and to several others who commented on Emeth

 

RABBI W:

I hold that the trop was Sinaitically delivered ALONG with the vocalization.

 

So any requirement to "read Shma" means to "read it with everything that was given at Sinai including vocalization and trop"

 

In other words: The Requirement to READ SHMA is a requirement to READ shma with vocalization and trope.

 

You can ask me: Why should you believe so strongly that trop was given at Sinai. Because to me trop is not muscial but rthymic and pausal. You cant read the verse VeHoo IsSHA BivSuLEAH YiQaX without pausing after VeHoo (so you dont say VeHoo IsSHA) and that means you are using the mesorah on pauses to read the verse that way. Indeed, Moses must have EITHER leined VEHOO ISHAH or VEHOO, ISHA... And therefore in effect Moses communicated the mesorah of pauses, the trop.

 

 

GIORGIES:
You ask about the consistency of my position as follows

>>If, as you believe, there is a halachic requirement to read shma with
the trope, and, as you believe, going against the trope is uprooting
the mesora, how do you take it on yourself to change the mercha of ani
(a meshores) to a tevir (a mafsiq)? And to change the tipcha of Adonoi
(a mafsik) to a bercha (a meshores)?<<

 

For the same reason I would change BEGED KEFETH and SOF POSOOK based on the teamim. Here is the conceptual way to think about it. I don't believe the mesorah was that a particular letter should be BETH or VETH

but rather I believe the Mesorah was that a letter is BETH or VETH depending on whether it is part of a phrase or begins a word or syllable etc. The mesorah was on the exceptions and the rules of beged kefeth, not on the actual vowels used.

 

CONSEQUENCE: Consider the word Pay-Nun-Yud at the end of Ex 20:3. If you read with Taam Tachton then this IS an end verse and therefore you read Ponoy (Kamatz kamatz). But if you read with taam elyon then this IS NOT an end-verse and therefore (as I do when I lein in shule) I read this as Ponay (Kamatz patach).

 

ANALYSIS: I dont regard myself as changing the mesorah because I dont perceive the mesorah as telling me to pronounce pny with kamatz kamatz - rather I perceive the mesorah as telling me this is the word whose translation is MY FACE and it is punctuated depending on where it is. If  (as we do) we change the trope to taam elyon then we are required to lein Kamatz-patach. It is the change in trop that changes the vocalization not me!

 

(NOTE: The above reasoning does not license me to change explicitly declared exceptions).

 

Now let us go to Shma. Some people say they say Ani (Tipchah) hashem (mayrchah) elokaychem (Siluq) Emeth (Siluq)

 

To me that would be finishing one sentence and then saying another one word sentence "Emeth" But that is not the intent. The intent is to actually change the verse from "I AM THE LORD THY GOD" to "I AM THE LORD THY TRUE GOD"

Consequently the trope I use must reflect this change.

 

To answer the question "How can you change the trop" I would answer "I am NOT changing the trop" Rather it is THE CHANGED VERSE that is changing the trop

 

Here is still another way to look at it: I perceive the change in words as a simultaneous change in trop!

Russell

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

____________________________________________________________
The New "Skinny" Fruit
How This Strange 62-Cent African Fruit Is Making Americans Skinny.
HLifestyles.com

[AMK Judaica]

RUSSEL:
 
i don't think you are justified in changing the trop. and no matter how you explain it, you are changing the trop.

 
"The intent is to actually change the verse from "I AM THE LORD THY GOD" to "I AM THE LORD THY TRUE GOD""
 

is this true?
 
(btw there is a similar park in jer. 10:10)
 
what would you do with ve-zot ha-torah . . . al pi hashem be-yad moshe?
 
kol tuv,
ari

Ari Kinsberg
MA, PharmD, RPh
Brooklyn, New York
**************

Click here to register as a bone marrow donor. It's the easiest way to save a child's life.

 

For the same reason I would change BEGED KEFETH and SOF POSOOK based on the teamim. Here is the conceptual way to think about it. I don't believe the mesorah was that a particular letter should be BETH or VETH

but rather I believe the Mesorah was that a letter is BETH or VETH depending on whether it is part of a phrase or begins a word or syllable etc. The mesorah was on the exceptions and the rules of beged kefeth, not on the actual vowels used.

 

CONSEQUENCE: Consider the word Pay-Nun-Yud at the end of Ex 20:3. If you read with Taam Tachton then this IS an end verse and therefore you read Ponoy (Kamatz kamatz). But if you read with taam elyon then this IS NOT an end-verse and therefore (as I do when I lein in shule) I read this as Ponay (Kamatz patach).

 

ANALYSIS: I dont regard myself as changing the mesorah because I dont perceive the mesorah as telling me to pronounce pny with kamatz kamatz - rather I perceive the mesorah as telling me this is the word whose translation is MY FACE and it is punctuated depending on where it is. If  (as we do) we change the trope to taam elyon then we are required to lein Kamatz-patach. It is the change in trop that changes the vocalization not me!

 

(NOTE: The above reasoning does not license me to change explicitly declared exceptions).

 

Now let us go to Shma. Some people say they say Ani (Tipchah) hashem (mayrchah) elokaychem (Siluq) Emeth (Siluq)

 

To me that would be finishing one sentence and then saying another one word sentence "Emeth" But that is not the intent. The intent is to actually change the verse from "I AM THE LORD THY GOD" to "I AM THE LORD THY TRUE GOD"

Consequently the trope I use must reflect this change.

 

To answer the question "How can you change the trop" I would answer "I am NOT changing the trop" Rather it is THE CHANGED VERSE that is changing the trop

 

Here is still another way to look at it: I perceive the change in words as a simultaneous change in trop!

Russell

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

____________________________________________________________
The New "Skinny" Fruit
How This Strange 62-Cent African Fruit Is Making Americans Skinny.
HLifestyles.com

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[Mark Symons]

As I understand it, the reason we add emet is because of the clause in Jer 10:10  Vashem elo-him emet - whose trop is mahpach pashta zaqef-qaton  --- and - which therefore presumably translates as: Hashem, God, is True (or Truth?) (rather than "Hashem is the true God"). Therefore when add emet, it's as if we're adding another clause and saying both simultaneously, ie 1. Ani Hashem Elokeichem - I am the Lord thy God - and 2. Hashem Elokeichem Emet - The Lord thy God is True/Truth - with the words Hashem Elokeichem being part of both clauses simultaneously (which does seem a little unusual to me, when you think about it). 

As far as trop goes, I would sing up to elokeichem with the usual trop, and then just say Emet without trop. Surely even if you consider it to be a requirement to sing the sh'ma with trop, this can't extend to Emet, because it's not part of the pasuk; and furthermore, if you sing it with trop, you're making out that it is part of the pasuk, which wuld seem wrong (and singing Hashem elokeichem emet with mahpach pashta zaqef-qaton - as per Jer10:10 - after a tipcha on Ani - would be ridiculous).

Mark Symons

Melbourne Oz

[R. Rich Wolpoe]

RABBI W:
I hold that the trop was Sinaitically delivered ALONG with the vocalization.»

Do you see anywhere in Talmud requiring trop with Q'rias sh'ma?
 




Shalom and Regards, RRW