January Battle-o-thon!

[Steven Vargo]

Hey all,

Posting this to judge interest and availability for getting together in January for a larger battle/tournament. 
From the other RichLUG thread, there seems to be some interest.  Josh has already offered to use the space at his church, which is an awesome spot and would be great for trying out the jump configuration we never got around to at the last game.

Your thoughts?

Steve

[Jaron Janson]

Sounds like it could work for me. Let me get back on tentative dates but the tail end of the month might be best.

_________________________________
Jaron Janson
435-669-1987
jaron....@gmail.com

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[Rich Schoonover]

That can work for me as well.  I may have a kid event sometime that month.  Will look into it.

Rich

[YourCure]

Any dates yet? Looking forward to it!

[Rich Schoonover]

I should have more dates this evening.  Will follow up later.  It is gonna be fun.

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 9:24 AM, YourCure <yourc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Any dates yet?  Looking forward to it!

[James Shepherd]

Steve - There's something bugging me about running multiple tables and being able to jump between them, but I can't figure out if it's a legitimate concern.  I'm all for it, in any case - let me know when and I can almost certainly be there, so long as we pick a date before christmas or so.

Meanwhile, if you haven't signed up for LugBulk anywhere else, I got this from HardLUG - if you guys would be good enough to register, even if you don't think you'd place an order, they're struggling to meet their headcount and could use the help.  Also, the order isn't until February, so save up now, and you'll be set by the time we actually order?

-----
Hey everyone.
VERY IMPORTANT!!
Go to the below site and register. Select HardLUG from drop down. Then go to your email and confirm. Should take less than a minute. If you don't, you will not be able to order. Even if you don't think you will order, please register anyway, so everyone else will be able to order.
Thanks.
Jonathan Drake

http://j3gd4x.lugbulk.org
-----

[Steven Vargo]

I can make it anytime but the first weekend of January.

James-

1) You're bugged but don't know why.  Is it because that takes gameplay away from a straight head-to-head configuration into a multilateral one?  Rich & I have been talking about using hexagonal tables (6') to get varied battlefield arrangements.  I just figured being able to jump to other surfaces would add to play dynamics.  I'm interested to hear what's bugging you about it though..

2) Are you talking about finishing our battle up before Christmas, or this proposed group battle?

P.S.- I signed up at LUGbulk.  Do they cross check it to see who's actually registered at the individual LUGs?

Steve

[James Shepherd]

re: PS: Hell if I know.  There seems to be some skulduggery involved, but I wonder how much of that isn't just that these guys I don't really know have a different way of doing things.  I figure I've been on HardLUG's mailing list for a good long while, so who's to say I'm not one?  Beyond that, all I know is they asked me to ask you guys whom they don't have as much contact with to sign up.

[James Shepherd]

1) I think what I'm potentially bugging about is "when do ships from other tables join your table's turns?"  One problematic situation I could see would be something like this: The Death Star is safe at one end of the table, at the opposite end of the Jump Gate.  The Empire and the Rebels duke it out, and Lord Vader is able to swat away the Rebels with minimal losses, though the Death Star's shields are down.  Just as the mop-up is finishing up, the USS Enterprise and all of Starfleet blast through the Jump Gate at Warp 6, arrive at the other end of the table, immediately unleash a first strike of missiles at point-blank range, and just like that, the Imperials are in utter disarray.  Basically, what's from stopping a player on another table from using the fact that no one else is on that table's turn order to his utmost advantage?  Why can't he repair his ships fully, plan out a devastating first strike, and then build up incredible momentum while waiting for just the right moment to send his fleet through the gate?

2) I was talking about my boss will probably be trying to finalize next month's schedule by right around Xmas - I imagine she'll post them the 23rd, if I was a betting man.  So if we can come up with a time/place for our meetings by then, I see no reason why I can't be there - she's been really accommodating to my schedule requests thus far.  Looking back, I should've clarified - as long as we pick January dates before Xmas, I'm in.  Or at least. that's what I tried to say.

On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 6:42 AM, Steven Vargo <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:

[James Shepherd]

So we seem to be looking at the middle or end of January - lemme throw out some dates, let me know what does or does not work for you.  Sunday might be easier to swing for me personally, but like I've said, I'm extremely flexible, provided notice.  Since we're talking an all-day tournament (most likely), I'm not going to suggest Fridays, but we could talk about that later if we scale things back and just have multiple simultaneous games rather than a tourney.  Just to start firming this up, I'd just say which days look good, look bad, or might have something possibly.

The 11th or 12th (our usual meeting weekend)?  18th or 19th?  25th or 26th?  Or do we wanna do the first weekend in Feb, and potentially meet for February the weekend after?  All of the above are totally clear for me at the moment, and I can't think of anything on the horizon.

[Steven Vargo]

The 25th is looking good for me, but I'll make it work if we choose another weekend.

Steve

[James Shepherd]

25th works for me. All in favor? I'll also ping Zheff and see if he
wants to learn the ropes.

[Jaron Janson]

I am in for the 25th. ISDA will prevail.

Are we at Josh ' s church again?

[Rich Schoonover]

I guess the 25th it is I took a vacation day for that day.  I'm in!

Sent from my iPhone

[Steven Vargo]

Aye, the 25th it be.  Are we still on for your church Josh?

[Rich Schoonover]

Hey guys, I think we need to start setting some ground rules for this battle.

How many class points are we going to have per player?  

Are there any optional rules you want to use?

Rich

[James Shepherd]

Steve and I discussed basically giving every player a table that's basically their turf, and how we might go about incentivizing playing both defense & offense.  What we discussed is this: assign every player a color at the start of play, something like Red, Blue, Green, or Yellow if we had four people, for example.  We'd have a pot of 40 sealed containers - inside each is a brick of one of those colors with an even spread - 10 blue, 10 red, etc.  We each draw 10 random containers at the start of play, see whats inside, and we each try and secure all 10 containers of our color.

So if one player is blue and another player is red, and each player has a substantial number of the other's color, they may duke it out and try and grab their objective color from their opponent's base.  Or perhaps they would negotiate a trade so that each could focus on their other opponents, and dispatch small flights of transport ships to swap their containers.  The gist is you have to come prepared to play offense or defense, since you don't know how much you're going to need to shape your strategy in either direction.  I feel like I'm not explaining that well; does that make sense to folks?  Steve, can you clarify or think of anything I left out?

As far as other rules I'd like to play with, I propose that we begin to formalize a way to show whether a ship's shields are up or down as well as a way to show how many ships are in a squadron.  Mostly our thoughts were that this would be apparent to a commander in the field, so we should make it more apparent in our gaming.  I was thinking we'd keep a plate with red 1x1's to indicate how many ships were in a squad and blue 1x1's to show who had shields up, since we already keep notes or dice to show speeds with ships.  We don't have to do it that way, but I do have a pretty good collection of 1x1 cones if anyone would like to try this and needs to borrow some.  I'd also say we should try running squads of larger ships as well, since the threat difference between a squad of fighters and a singular patrol is pretty enormous.

I think let's focus on combat rather than mining this game, though as always, it would be fun to have some obstacles around to navigate.  More thoughts later, I suppose.  Also, I was going to bring some additional fighters and give Zhyeff a ride up - Rich or someone, could you bring some larger craft we could loan him?

[Jaron Janson]

Color coordinated, capture the flag, then? I think that sounds very interesting. I call RED, for some reason. 

I really need to build out the stats on my ships then. Too much to do! How big of a force are we talking?

_________________________________
Jaron Janson
435-669-1987
jaron....@gmail.com

[James Shepherd]

Yeah, that's a good way of putting it - capture the flag, and each side has 10 flags.  Our last get together was limited at 50 class points, with no more than half in fighters.  What say we bump that up to 64 or 72 to accommodate the YourCurian fleet?  Actually, come to think of it, Jaron and Josh - you guys probably have the most big, new stuff you'd want to bring; do those numbers seem in the ballpark for allowing you to bring most of what you have?

[Steven Vargo]

Just go to 100; you know you want to.  If we're going to battle between several tables they will get dispersed.  Besides, we'll most likely be playing offense and defense at the same time so that would give us more options for force allocation.  I like the obstacle idea and will try to get a few large asteroids together, maybe a few derelict ships too. 

I like your idea for squad and shield indicators James.  We also talked about docking with enemy vessels and potentially docking with larger asteroids to move them around (I proposed using multiple docking racks while James proposed a separate, larger cargo rack with room to purchase class expansion).  Anyone have further thoughts on this? 

I have 4 of the midi-star destroyers I can bring for Zhyeff.  How about a nice....cog??

So many stats to work on....

[Rich Schoonover]

Yeah 100 sounds great to me.  I also have plenty of debris and asteroids to bring.  I am cool with all docking proposals.  I also like the squad shield and armor indicators.  Maybe we should do that for all ships.  Are there any other alternate rules you guys would like to implement.  

Also is the fighter cap still half of your fleet?  Does that only mean class 1 ships or does that include other small classes?  

I also would like to claim Dark Red as my color!!

Got get some stuff together now.

[Jaron Janson]

100 sounds good to me. At 100pts could I fit my 116x40 Stud ISDA SHIP in the game? ;)

_________________________________
Jaron Janson
435-669-1987
jaron....@gmail.com

[James Shepherd]

Most definitely, Jaron - someone's got to go toe to toe with that Yourcurian behemoth, after all.  As I recall, ISDA may have a score to settle with them...

I remembered an optional rule we were discussing (though I'm not sure when.)  To help spread out the punishing damage from missile stacks, what would people say about most ships can launch 1 missile/mine/whatever per turn, and if you want to launch larger salvoes, pay 1 power for additional launch tubes?

[Jaron Janson]

If you have seen the ship I am building, you will see I definitely need more missile tubes...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tervlon/10031311515/

Its looking even better now, the sides are starting to be finished up.

_________________________________
Jaron Janson
435-669-1987
jaron....@gmail.com

[Steven Vargo]

I'd be ok with that change James.  Stacks of 30 missiles can be a bit ridiculous (as was evidenced in our last game).  What if we only applied that to medium & small classes while allowing large ships to still "empty their tubes"?  The trade-off being speed & maneuverability for the lower classes with missile stacks being a viable defensive tactic for larger class vessels.  A squad of fighters (6 max) could still deliver 6 missiles per turn (a deadly salvo in most cases) and turn, speed up, whatever from harm's way.  Most of the large class vessels we've fielded have been slow to immobile; allowing missile stacks seems logical for them.

We also talked about large-class specific "super weapons", that can be fielded by and target only large class vessels.  Any more thoughts on that?  I think we had discussed them having larger range and damage, but would be limited to use every x3 turns.  

Jaron, I hope I can get close to that ship.  I have something special to try out on it......Mwuahahahahahahahaha 

[James Shepherd]

Way ahead of you.  I sent out an updated ship-builder with proposed changes to power and hull points (and somewhat to volume) - let me know what you guys think/if you want to use that for our game.

I've been adding a bunch of stuff from my to-do list, and we can use as much or as little as you like.  Some highlights include:

- EMP rockets

- Capital class weapons

- ROF and Duration for missiles

- Combined chaff & flare, combined radar & heatseeking missile

- wrote up automatic point defense

- Turned cannon into flak cannon

- rewrote tactical computer

- added some new defenses

- Steve, I put in your EVA suits as Drones, added your alien melee weapons, and added your grapple as a defense, lemme know if those work for you.

I need to clarify some things in the rules - such as capital weapons, flak cannons, how we've been using squads and initiative, but I think for our purposes this'll work.  I'll clarify a bit more as we discuss and see what looks good.  I looked back at ramming and explosions, I don't think it's terribly complicated / time consuming, so let's keep that as is - I just need to explain it better, and we could probably ignore it for fighters unless there's a kamikaze squadron.  One question we haven't resolved - how does jamming affect missiles already in flight?  I think the only thing that would be fair would be to jam their guidance and make them dumbfires while jammed.

More later, I gotta get to work.

[Rich Schoonover]

I agree missiles can be a bit devastating when delivered 30 at a time.  Although I have only used that tactic two times, I did lose my last battle.  Maybe limiting the number of missiles to be fired to 2x the class number of the ship per turn might even the odds a bit.  It limits class 1 ships to no more that 2 missiles per turn, and class 12 ships to no more that 24 per turn.  I think for the length of time turn can take it would allow a defender against missiles to take action against a large attack.  This would limit the maximum number of missiles in a turn from a squadron to 12 missiles.  I know that is still 24d6, but those fighter that carry that payload are more susceptible to elimination when carrying heavy payloads like they do.  The class 1 ships that I built to carry 5 missiles, had no room for anything else.  They carried no defensive weapons to protect their payload from other fighters.  They had no a armor or shields so they were very easy to kill.  I think it isn't outside the realm of possibilities that a spacecraft could carry 2 external missiles that could be fired simultaneously.  However if they carried 5 missiles externally or in a launcher they would do that at great cost to other systems.  

I think that a similar rule should apply to mines as well.  Would it not be as difficult to launch mines as it would be to launch as many missiles.  They pack as much explosive damage as missiles.  I think delivery strategy is very similar to the missile attacks I have made the up side is that they can be deployed and left to wait for enemies as well.  I think this weapons should have some limits as well since the stacking of mines could easily be done as well.  I also think since fighters have had many limitations set on them and that we have created additional defensive measures like Flak and some new point defense systems to combat fighters that we consider tactics for defending against fighter attacks.  I don't disagree on limiting the missile and mine attacks so that they aren't as devastating.  In reality though what stops terrorists from doing similar things to buildings and buses in the same way.  We have put barricades up around key buildings to defend against car bomb attacks.     A similar tactic could be used against these fighters.  Surrounding key ships with smaller ships could be a method to deter this attack.  You could also use interceptors to defend against fighters.  Class 2 ships can carry quite a bit more of everything than a class 1 and can move at nearly the same speeds or maybe faster depending on the build.  

The next thing is Jamming.  Jamming by the rule limits an attacker from firing weapons and deploying mines since it would essentially interrupt how those launchers work on those ships.  Missile jamming by the same thought would work the same way for guidance and such.  Essentially interrupting the electronics that would fly the missile to its target.  So missiles could continue on there current flight path at there same speed until they pass out of range of the jam or strike a target.  If jamming works in this way then logically fighters or any other ship besides friendly ships in range of the Jammer would lose navigation as well.  We have a defense system called Hardened Electronics that could possibly be used to defend against such attacks.  I think Jammers as of late are pretty powerful as well, and need a good counter measure.  Disrupters are rarely used and are the offense that Hardened Electronics are used to defend against.  Hardened Electronics in real world practice are used to defend against Electro Magnetic Pulse on modern military equipment.  Would they not defend against similar broadband jamming devices that are being used now.  If not then I propose that we add Electronic Counter Measures defensive system that would cancel Jamming.

Let me know what you guys think of these proposals.

Rich

[James Shepherd]

I used it last time to good effect as well, and could've done more with it.  I think 2x Class number sounds good.  And yeah, this would apply to all ammunition weapons; I was just being lazy and using a specific where I meant to be general.

More broadly, I'm not coming against fighters specifically, it's just very easy to roll tons of damage by filling a couple expendable ships with lots of ammo and sending them downfield.  Personally, I feel like fighters are well-nerfed, and probably even more so with larger ships getting beefed up, not to mention our new anti-fighter weapons.  I have a couple ideas for anti-fighter designs; I'm going to try out one in our game (which don't use any of our new additions or rules, btw.)

I agree that where fighters are getting through and dealing massive damage, it's usually for one of two reasons (if not for sheer, overwhelming force): either the attacker planned his fleet setup and squadron builds well or the defender didn't.  It's damned hard to keep a capital ship fighting effectively without a slew of support ships surrounding it, and in turn, fighters and smaller ships providing cover to the whole group - there's a reason why navies do this in real life, and I'm glad to see that our game reflects that reality.  I'm hoping we see some good experimentation in this next game; I'm looking forward to it.

My thinking was that the jammer wouldn't knock out guidance so much as blind it while in range - the tracking mechanism would be so overwhelmed, it wouldn't function properly while in the jammer's range.  By that in-universe logic, your pilots of jammed ships would still be able to navigate, but he couldn't get a firing solution.  (I realize this doesn't make much sense if you view a jammer as an EMP, which would more likely just fry electronics, but where's the fun and simplicity of play in that?)  ECM's a good thought, and I'd like to spruce up many of those damage-reducing defenses - should we add immunity to noise jam to it's function and keep the price as-is?

As for other clarifications, and while we're in the neighborhood, I reworked the Cloak, since we couldn't figure out how to solve the problem of "you can't see me I promise!"  (I switched it to more of a phase-out, so you could see where the ship is, just neither could interact.)  Does being able to disrupt that with a jammer seem fair to you guys?  Another thing - right now, a Flak Cannon does its regular damage to all ships in a 2 Unit radius - that seems okay to me, but I think I'm going to nix the Large version and probably the Medium too.  Perhaps we should leave the Medium Flak in for now and see if it's too powerful?  FTL ranges is also on my list - I feel like we could beef FTL up a bit; let it be used more often and for longer distances.  What sounds good for ballpark numbers on that?

That's enough for tonight, but I have to say, it feels good to get back into these rules.  Looking forward to next Saturday!

[Steven Vargo]

I like the 2xclass limit on ammunition as well.  It's still a heavy hit from squads of 6, but much more reasonable than before (James hammered me with that in our last game).  Also like the effects of jammers on missiles, as well as the proposal for ECM against jamming (although that's currently one of my favorite tactics..).  I think the current purchase & movement distance stats on FTL are good.  If we change anything, I'd recommend only waiting two turns at the beginning of game play to warm up versus three, and maybe half the wait time (currently ship class) with a minimum of one turn between jumps.  Too much jumping will have a negative impact on game play IMO.

James, I do have a couple of questions on the new defenses and weapons:

--How exactly do you envision the melee weapon working?  Is it like a ram, grapple, hull breacher, or something else?   

--Is the docking rack limited to ships?  Could we carry asteroids as well?

--Are robotic grapples going to be needed to dock with enemy ships?  Have we ever clarified hostile docking/boarding rules (ship speed matching, shield status, etc.)?  Rich & I worked through battle pod impacts and boarding actions in the last game and you & I talked a bit about boarding ship-to-ship, but I still don't see anything codifying hostile docking rules.  To dock with a class 10 we would need 5 robotic grapples, correct?

--Battle Maneuvers- Are we changing the policy of being able to move-shoot-move?  

Overall I like the changes you've made.  Really looking forward to next weekend!  

Anyone hear from Josh lately?

[James Shepherd]

- With melee weapons, my thoughts begin and and at "how many dice of damage do you want to roll per turn?"  Beyond that, it's up to you - there is a new defense, the 3-power grapple which should work for you (perhaps in multiples) and should also serve us well in mining operations.  So it's more like a ram than a grapple, though you haven't really collided with the other ship.  I guess we might want to apply the "shields must be down" rule, as with battle pods and hostile boarding.

- Docking Rack's not limited to ships, but if you had something grappled, you're not docked with it, and as long as it's not a ship, it's not going to break free.

- You don't need them to dock with enemies, but it will make it easier.  However you go about docking with an enemy, you'll need to be able to out-maneuver or grapple them somehow.  (Grapple missiles still exist, as I recall.)  The enemy docking rules are at the bottom of this page, and they're a bit of a mess.  Lemme look at them again in the morning, but how does this sound, for a simplified version: 1) you have to match the direction of the ship you're trying to dock with, 2) you roll 1d6 against your opponent, if you win, you're docked/grappled. defender wins a tie.  3) each point of speed difference is one more point you'd have to win your roll by.  Friendlies dock with each other pretty much the same way, they just roll against the speed difference rather than another player.  I don't see anything too wrong with that, but we can think on it.

- Not as such.  We've just been talking about allowing for the tactics that come with being able to do so, so I figured "let's start testing it" and put that in.  As a blanket rule, all ships which didn't buy Battle Maneuvers (I don't love the name, btw - any better ideas?) will still shoot-move or move-shoot.

Thanks!  I got some stuff I still wanna throw together and other things I want to stat out, but in any event, I'll be interested to test some new rules.

Not heard from Josh lately, I'll poke him and Jaron on flickr and see what they think about capital weapons.  

Oh yeah, so just to firm up some rules, are we good with playing things with the new revisions, or do we want to stick with the last round of changes?  And alongside that, do we want to use the old ship creation stats per the Site or the new numbers that are on that Google Doc?

[Jaron Janson]

I'm here. :) 

I don't have a lot to contribute at the moment. Its been a year since I played and am still not super clear on all the rules. I'm just hoping I can build a decent ship with whats on the sheet!

_________________________________
Jaron Janson
435-669-1987
jaron....@gmail.com

[YourCure]

We're still on for Saturday. The main room is booked till 3 but our old room is good prior to that.

I'll bring what I have built but need to focus on building ship sheets. I'm with jaron though, coming to have fun but woefully behind.

All the suggestions make sense to me and willing to try out the new rules if everyone else is in agreement.

Um, I think I'll claim blue or white. ;)

[Steven Vargo]

You're not that far behind Josh.  I'm in the same boat as you and Jaron; trying to finish up two ship designs and work out stats on Friday night.  I'm OK with using the new rules too.  The room we played in before had plenty of space.  Will we be able to open the partition?

Kurt is going to be there as well, so this should be real interesting having seven people playing simultaneously!  

How early do you all want to meet and how early can we start setting up?

I'll go with black if it's available...

[Rich Schoonover]

I am good with all the rule adjustments.  I will be working a lot on record sheets this week and finishing some new ships up.  It will be a lot of fun to play with so many players, that will be a first for seven players at a game.  

I have to go car shopping with my wife on Saturday morning, but will be leaving from that to go directly to Fredericksburg.  I should be done around 10am maybe earlier.  I took the day off from work, and can start anytime.  

See you guys then!

Sent from my iPad

[James Shepherd]

I just talked to Zhyeff earlier; he's working on Saturday, so he's out and I could drive Kurt if that would simplify logistics.  I imagine we've still got more than a carload of stuff + people, but do we want to try and all carpool?  Or at least the Richmonders with Rich to follow when he's able?  I'm probably not bringing much more than a case-of-beer box.

And yeah, I'm right there with you guys as well - I'm still developing tactics, throwing together ships, planning.  Is there any new rule that we need to develop or clarify before game-day you guys can think of?  I have the next two days off, so I'll probably be doing most of my prep work between now and Friday.

And just to double check our head-count - we have Rich, Steve, Kurt, Josh, Jaron, and myself, correct?  So 6 if we're missing Zhyeff.  But yeah, should be our biggest game yet!  I'm looking forward to it - I hope we have the chance to try some new things out and perhaps the first-out players can try some just-for-fun / experimental wargames on the sidelines.  (Or we could grant them commissions in our soon-to-remain-victorious Pantopian Imperial Navy.)

Oh, one thing I don't think we've really addressed: last time we had this many people with large fleets was when play bogged down to hour-long turns.  We've trimmed a lot of fat since then, but here's some proposals to keep things moving: 1) At the start, before any fleets are engaged, let's all move simultaneously.  2) Let's perhaps keep a 5-10 minute time limit when combat is still at a minimum?  3) Once a table is engaged, let them decide how to deal with turns.  Other tables can keep to whatever time rule we decide or keep to their turn order if they plan to join.  4) If nothing else, once three of the six of us are ready, let's give everyone else 5-10 minutes to finish up.  Maybe we could even award fractional victory points for being the first ones done and small penalties for being the last player/running out the clock.

[Rich Schoonover]

I like the idea of the time limit.  I have a timer on my iphone.  I am sure we can find many ways to measure that and use it.  I am not sure about simultaneous moves though.  Maybe each table could be separate until outside involvement intervenes.  Then the intervening party would be the ultimate loser for one turn of initiative, until they sync up with that tables game.  This way each table can keep the action going even if other tables have stalled in combat.  A players forces on different tables may not be able to all move at the same time then since it could be their turn on one table, but not on another.  Could be difficult to manage, but fighting on two fronts is never supposed to be easy.

We kind of did that at Steve's house when we played there.  Although we had no cross table action, I think it would keep things moving and satisfy some simultaneous action as well.  I think with the time limits in place on a turn we could possibly complete a whole round in 30 -40 minutes as long as all six of us were at the same table.  That time would be contingent upon there being no more that 3 or 4 of us at any 1 table.

Any ideas on how you want to lay out the tables for this?

Sent from my iPad

[YourCure]

Partitions will be open and we can use the lounge as well (setup/stowage) so we can maximize space in the double room. We can start as early as y'all want, I have the keys.

Trying to finish up the last bits of ships and actually making progress for once. I expect to have basic sheets for all of them completed by game time.

If anyone has black sheets or tablecloths please bring them for pictures and such. Just think it will look good.

Table setup should not be a problem as we can add more tables and I just remembered that we added a full size air hockey table in there too. We can use it either way.

Time limits work for me too, makes sense to have sector specific time zones too.

Anyone else bringing a beastie other than Jaron?

[James Shepherd]

I take the 5th regarding any potential "beasties."  We Imperials make it a policy not to divulge operational details when international tensions are high, and particularly not to possible hostiles.  :D  Rich has a Queen and King black sheet we used to display once, I asked him to bring them and he's planning to.  Glad to hear progress is being made - I suggest that we check one another's work to some degree since we've changed quite a bit, we haven't played in a while, and I think everyone has accidentally cheated to some extent some of the time.  (Which is why we're cutting and simplifying, after all.)

What we did at Steve's was more or less how I was planning to run this game, Rich - I was mostly thinking we would only take our turns simultaneously when there's no real way for anyone to interact - the first 3 turns, for example, everyone's going to be getting up to speed, laying out their static defenses, spinning up FTL, and so forth.  So if our actions won't substantially affect another player's reactions, I'm for it wherever possible.  But I agree, even taking it in strict turns, we should be able to move things along in 30-minute turns easily.

To answer your other question, I was thinking we'd each have our own table with a jump gate on either end.  Overall, we'd set up as a ring, basically.  We could talk about how we decide who gets put where, but I imagine the most fair thing to do would be to give everyone a number 1-6, roll a dice, and put that person on that table.

As for time, I know I'm not likely to get on the road before 9, so around 11 seems like a reasonable start window to me.  We could get pizza or something while we prep and start after lunch?

[Jaron Janson]

James, I was looking at the ship builder. Is there a reason that you did not use the Upgraded builder with the weapons dropdown?  It is a lot easier for me to use that one, since I am still a noob at this. 

_________________________________
Jaron Janson
435-669-1987
jaron....@gmail.com

[Steven Vargo]

I'm picking Kurt up on the way through town; you can ride with us if you like James.  Should be plenty of room.  9 am departure sounds good as does starting around 11, pizza, blahblahblah....

I like the ring table setup proposal; maybe have one or a few tables in the middle as corridors?

[James Shepherd]

I was thinking about a central mining field, I knew there was something I left out of the press briefing!  Perhaps your aliens grabbed the cup as it is made out of precious Unobtanium, and the international community could gather at a nearby rich Unobtanium-rich asteroid field?  (mining is completely optional, but could score some points towards victory if you can't grab all your color?)

[James Shepherd]

Btw, Steve - I'll poke you here since I have fuck-all idea how to use flickr anymore and tag you in a comment; how you like this?  It only has a viewport and not a true cockpit - just for you!  I guess that strategic alliance must have at least netted the Pantopians Jovian avionics and "connect a camera to a view-screen" technology.

[James Shepherd]

D'oh, forgot the link - http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesofjames/12098952173/

[YourCure]

We have a large circular table that we can put in the center of the room that should work well for those purposes.

Nice looking build you have there James.

[James Shepherd]

Much obliged, Josh, but like I said, I don't think it's for me, though I did stretch myself and gain some appreciation and understanding.  They're too damn fidly and will probably play with at least some of their guts showing.

On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:31 PM, YourCure <yourc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

We have a large circular table that we can put in the center of the room that should work well for those purposes.

Nice looking build you have there James.

[James Shepherd]

I should also mention that Zhyeff is considering calling in sick Saturday to come with us.  I told him that we wouldn't all leave town without him, so between Rich and myself, let's try and check in with him before we hit the road.

[Steven Vargo]

I'll have several ships with guts showing James; build time has been inadequate at best.

Does 11 o'clock set up time sound agreeable with everyone?  I need to give Kurt a heads-up on when I'll need to pick him up.  

Josh, would you please post the address to your church again?

So excite!

[James Shepherd]

Yeah, I got an alarm set for 8:15 tomorrow, but I sure could've used more sleep these last two nights than I've gotten.  11 sounds good to me, but to paraphrase Jayne Cobb, "what you've planned and what actually happened ain't ever been exactly similar."

Rich, if your miners are interested in this asteroid field, can you bring your bag of rocks?  I'll bring my lumps of coal and precious Unobtanium.  If we're playing to 10 and adding this possibility of bonus points, what seems fair to folks - 10 possible points gained by mining?  Fewer?  More?  The real trick will be getting it aboard a ship not designed to mine, IMHO - that might require docking with the scattered ore in a warzone.  If we're going to have jump lanes to this middle section, I say we revise our map a bit - picture a hexagonal Mercedes-Benz logo - each of us will have one jump gate with two possible directions, another jump gate that only leads to our neighbors.  Does that seem fair?  We may want some dead-simple indicator of where exactly the gates are - masking tape would even work for me.

I could use the address as well, but if my search-fu skills and my ability to navigate this new FUBAR-version of flickr serves, it should be...yeah God knows.  I'm reasonably sure it's the lower level of All Saints Hall at Christ Church Episcopal in Spotsylvania, and if so, 8951 COURTHOUSE ROAD SPOTSYLVANIA, VA 22553 per http://www.christchurchspotsy.com/all-saints-hall/

Looking forward to tomorrow!  I'm hearing a lot of smacks being talked, a lot of confident commanders bringing their fleets - I guess we'll see where exactly the men get separated from the boys.  ...and then I guess we'll also see where the worthless hu-mons are separated from the [[Unintelligable Clicking, Sound of a Train Full of Typewriters Crashing into a 10 Foot Thick Glass Wall]] as well.

Play well, folks - see you tomorrow!

[Rich Schoonover]

11 sounds good to me.  I will bring my rocks as well.

Sent from my iPad

[Steven Vargo]

I like your table suggestion James; I was thinking that if we were set up in a ring that there would be gates at either end of our individual tables with a third leading to the central mining area.  This would prevent anyone setting up at the lone jump point, especially if you're proposing a one turn lag for fleets jumping into system (table).

I'm bringing rocks too, hehehe...

Since Zhyeff is still tentative, does anyone else have extra ships they can bring?  I'm loaning Kurt my extra ships now.

[Jaron Janson]

I won't be using all of mine, plus I have a few extras that vary in color and style from my fleet. Happy to lend them out.

Building these stats is more difficult than I anticipated.  I hope I can get them done.  BTW is a 100 pt fleet equal to having ships with power equal to 100?

Also what are the largest sized weapons a given class can carry?

[Rich Schoonover]

Jaron

Sorry I didn't reply earlier about the power thing.  The 100 points if for class points.   These are the points that can be spent on allocating ships to your fleet.  That is a class 12 and 6 full squadrons of class 1 fighters which is 6 fighter per squadron would 48 class points.  Of course 12 for the big ship and 1 point for each fighter that there are 36 of because there 6 squadrons of 6 fighters.  

If you have many power points spent on a ship, let's say 80.  That ship is pretty big and will likely cost 11 or 12 class points since it is probably a class 11 or 12 ship.  I hope this clears thing up.  

Rich

Sent from my iPhone

[Jaron Janson]

Rich, thanks for clarifying! Wow, those are some major fleets! 

_________________________________
Jaron Janson
435-669-1987
jaron....@gmail.com

[YourCure]

James, that address is correct. Once you enter the parking lot (directly left of the fast mart, if you were looking at it from the road) you want to drive back and around to the left. The entrance is where the handicap parking spots are. The door will be open. There should be another event upstairs so there will most likely be other cars there. 2nd and 3rd doors on the left in the downstairs hallway.

I may have a sign pointing the way but most of you have been there and the others that have not a riding with guides so....

I think the password for wifi is:
cc1841Epi$c0pal

[YourCure]

I'll bring some extra ships. I have some of the planet star destroyers that are already built and can throw some stuff together that should work. I may have some other stuff extra but won't know till later. Just now heading upstairs to work on it so I'm ready in the morning. At least that's the plan.

See y'all in the morning!

[Rich Schoonover]

I have a few extra ships as well.  I will have them with me.

On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:52 PM, YourCure <yourc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'll bring some extra ships. I have some of the planet star destroyers that are already built and can throw some stuff together that should work. I may have some other stuff extra but won't know till later.  Just now heading upstairs to work on it so I'm ready in the morning. At least that's the plan.

See y'all in the morning!

[Rich Schoonover]

James I have been using the Table that is in the ship builder spreadsheet to build my new ships are the power figures there correct and all modified for crew already?

[James Shepherd]

In the most-recent "Proposed Changes" one, Rich?  The main thing that changed there was volume and power - if it looks like it's not progressing linearly but is progressing so as to give larger ships more power per step up in class, then you have the one I was planning to use.  It's a quick swap, but if I was bringing a class 12, I'd plan to use 92 power.  Does that clear it up?  Certainly, we will require some game-day prep time.  Good luck on your car-buying this morning!

I'm also planning to bring some spares and can bring some "wreckage" if we want to litter the center table with a bit more space-junk.  RICH - if you care/have some handy, could you bring rock raiders chromed crystals?  Maybe 5-10?  If not, worry about it 0 much.

Zhyeff is out but we'll school him soon enough.  I'm riding with Kurt and Steve and we're planning to leave my place around 1000, so let's say 1015 if we're being more honest.  Hope traffic ain't too bad, but we'll see you when we see you.  Do you have a pizza place in mind, Josh, and if so, you got their number?

Jaron et al - I'm not planning to bring anywhere near the cap.  But I'm prepared to play against a fleet of any size - I'm coming to play, enjoy the game and company, and work on the design of what I hope we can call "our game."  I'll value and welcome any feedback, and would love to come up with a list of Top Priorities to be completed by June 1.  After that, God knows where I'll be, but I hope you guys will keep playing this without me!

[Jaron Janson]

I had an awesome time guys, thanks for coming. I wanted to put a few things down before I forgot them.

The first thing I would be that I think splash damage should be rolled and then halved, rounding up.

I think that every ship should have usable thrusters and engines built in. If you want to upgrade (or downgrade) that is fine, but I think every ship should have a minimum speed built in. It is too confusing to try to figure it out otherwise. Especially for us noobs.

There should be an upgrade that makes it so your ship doesn't sleep when it jumps in. 3 Points for upgraded systems or something.

Point 4, I need to use automated defense lasers...

Point 5, let us all pick 2 classes and build a sample ship for the archive. These sample ships should be made for the Google Docs sheet and a Pdf version for easy printing. I am doing a class 4 and a class 10.

Point 6. Narrow tables are not good for stations and beasties.

[James Shepherd]

Jaron, I thoroughly enjoyed our Mutually Assured Destruction, and will be writing a post-mortem thread to talk us through the transition to public beta.  You raise many good points - any "ship" should be able to make a minimal move and turn.  I signed up myself, Kate, Steve, and Jaron.  Josh and Rich - pick a pair of numbers: 2 & 9 or 7 & 12?  You'll be writing the stock ship for that class and filling out the Everything You Need to Know About Running a Class X Ship info page, once we get the template set and the rules settled a bit.

Automating defense lasers would've saved me a lot of work too.  Cuts both ways, but fighters go crunch a bit /too/ easily, if anything these days.  I liked running pairs of Class 2 missile boats, a 3-gunboat team and 4-fighter squadrons.  I think if we broaden our perspective to include "a tactical grouping of small ships which move and fight as a cohesive unit," squadrons will be a much more elegant management tool.  I mean, I was woefully underprepared, figuring out my fleet as we made contact, made sure that rules were played as written, and our battle went back and forth in a pretty satisfying flow in...4 hours?  (It doesn't hurt to have some data to say that my normal, legal production dice are skewed a bit above average.)

I'd like us each to write up the main things we'd change, if only from our own perspective, in the game as it stands and as we understand it.  For my part, I believe that more defenses need to have Size-specific costs.  Meaning that a Shield Projector may cost 4 for a Small ship, 6 for a Medium, and 8 for a Large.  Flat costs make sense when comparing apples to oranges, not sesame seeds to 15-passenger vans (or however you imagine fighters might compare against a proper Mothership.)

[[I thought I had sent this and found it in my drafts.  Debriefing thread to follow shortly.]]