Ellen Brown on some what ifs with digital currencies - making banks obsolete overnight sounds exciting
Laurence Boomert
Love to hear peoples thoughts
https://ellenbrown.com/2016/09/16/central-bank-digital-currencies-a-revolution-in-banking/
Sonia Corbett
Love to hear peoples thoughts
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Raf Manji
Ellen Brown usually makes a lot of sense. I agree with her, and many others, that alternative, local, complimentary... currencies are a great idea, not to "bring down" the current banking system, but to have something real in place when the system collapses under its own weight. But, do we need the blockchain technology? If a currency is local, what's wrong with a good old-fashioned cash book? We can still use it when the internet fails along with the banking system!Regards,Sonia.
On 22/09/2016, at 4:27 PM, Laurence Boomert wrote:
Love to hear peoples thoughts--
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Kind regards,
Raf
Laurence Boomert
Ultimately and probably soon I think money as we have known it will become obsolete for many people. The matching of needs and wants and the associated reciprocity and valuing (or not) will just become very direct - and the ‘transaction’ mechanism will be instant and invisible.
Central bankers will be searching with floodlights up their own behinds desperately looking for the power they once had.
What’s fun about Ms Browns article is that she sees the central banks soon neutralizing private banks, devouring them whole in pursuit of trying to master the new decentralized value chain which ultimately will devour them as well.
Brings to mind this quote by W.A Jones “Inevitably the invisible hand eat all its own fingers and became the all too visible stump”
Luckily the new forest grew will grow quickly over the old stumps and they will be just an unpleasant memory
Laurence
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Deck Hazen
Lowell Manning
Nothing Deck.
There are two core issues acting together:
1) The neoliberal economic model that since Nixon removed the US$ gold peg in August 1971 has enabled debt (and its equal money supply) to expand as fast as the banks can increase their net worth. That’s because neoliberalism has tried to manage only the price of money instead of also managing the quantity of money. So last year, if you believe the figures, the economy expanded by 3.5% or $9b while the debt (and its equal money supply) expanded by $32b – it could do that because the bank residuals (net worth or capital) increased by over $3b last year. The bigger the debt, (by and large) the more earned income is sucked out of consumption. Kiwisaver has drastically added to the problem because the Kiwisaver saving is also recycled into the investment sector instead of stimulating new production and consumption.
2) At the same time, technology, automation and the like have prevented any increase in the share of total income going to those who earn their living. In terms of the National Accounts, the surplus accruing to business is gradually increasing.
Those earning their income are now getting squeezed from both sides. That’s why there is no wage inflation. In fact, once you account for 1) and 2) above and for changes in expenditure patterns real per capita consumption is now probably falling.
Meanwhile the non-productive investment sector is roaring ahead on steroids – the main element in New Zealand’s case being property prices.
Local currencies help avoid some of the problems but they don’t resolve the underlying issues namely that it is in almost everyone’s interest to increase spending power so consumers can consume and business can produce (subject to sustainability and environmental constraints).
That’s where a universal basic income comes in.
Cheers
Lowell Manning
Deck Hazen
Phil Stevens
Banks are interested in blockchain as a means of enabling secure and
frictionless transactions, and making issuance of fully electronic
currency a reality. It doesn't change their business model one
iota...they still fully intend to create money as debt and charge the
rest of us like wounded bulls.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
On 27/09/16 15:50, Deck Hazen wrote:
> Thanks Lowell,
>
> That's a great explanation of the problem but I still don't
> understand why central banks would push for a new financial system that
> would (apparently) undermine their wealth and power?
>
>
>
> -- Deck
>
> deck....@gmail.com <mailto:deck....@gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>
>> account for 1) and 2) above and for changes in expenditure patterns
>> real per capita consumption is now probably falling.
>>
>> Meanwhile the non-productive investment sector is roaring ahead on
>> steroids – the main element in New Zealand’s case being property prices.
>>
>>
>>
>> Local currencies help avoid some of the problems but they don’t
>> resolve the underlying issues namely that it is in almost everyone’s
>> interest to increase spending power so consumers can consume and
>> business can produce (subject to sustainability and environmental
>> constraints).
>>
>>
>>
>> That’s where a universal basic income comes in.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>> Lowell Manning
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [mailto:le...@googlegroups.com <mailto:le...@googlegroups.com>] *On
>> Behalf Of *Deck Hazen
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 27 September 2016 12:56 PM
>> *To:* le...@googlegroups.com <mailto:le...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* Re[2]: [LE] Ellen Brown on some what ifs with digital
>>
>>
>>
>> I have heard, and I believe, that the current money system, and
>> fractional reserve lending in particular, is the primary means by
>> which the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I also believe
>> that the banking business is a central source of wealth for the banks
>> (it's why banks are the tallest buildings in any town) and that to
>> remove it would be to take away a significant portion of banker wealth
>> and power. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>> That being the case, I can't imagine bankers simply walking away from
>> such a critical asset. What am I missing?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Deck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> deck....@gmail.com <mailto:deck....@gmail.com>
>> 021 909 896
>>
>> PO Box 689
>>
>> Kerikeri NZ 0245
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>>
>> From: "Laurence Boomert" <laurenc...@xtra.co.nz
>>
>> To: le...@googlegroups.com <mailto:le...@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: 9/27/2016 7:42:40 AM
>>
>> Subject: RE: [LE] Ellen Brown on some what ifs with digital currencies
>> - making banks obsolete overnight sounds exciting
>>
>>
>>
>> Ultimately and probably soon I think money as we have known it
>> will become obsolete for many people. The matching of needs and
>> wants and the associated reciprocity and valuing (or not) will
>> just become very direct - and the ‘transaction’ mechanism will be
>> instant and invisible.
>>
>>
>>
>> Central bankers will be searching with floodlights up their own
>> behinds desperately looking for the power they once had.
>>
>>
>>
>> What’s fun about Ms Browns article is that she sees the central
>> banks soon neutralizing private banks, devouring them whole in
>> pursuit of trying to master the new decentralized value chain
>> which ultimately will devour them as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Brings to mind this quote by W.A Jones “Inevitably the invisible
>> hand eat all its own fingers and became the all too visible stump”
>>
>>
>>
>> Luckily the new forest grew will grow quickly over the old stumps
>> and they will be just an unpleasant memory
>>
>>
>>
>> Laurence
>>
>>
>>
>> [mailto:le...@googlegroups.com <mailto:le...@googlegroups.com>]
>> *On Behalf Of *Sonia Corbett
>> *Sent:* Monday, 26 September 2016 4:49 PM
>> *To:* le...@googlegroups.com <mailto:le...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [LE] Ellen Brown on some what ifs with digital
>>
>>
>>
>> Ellen Brown usually makes a lot of sense. I agree with her, and
>> many others, that alternative, local, complimentary... currencies
>> are a great idea, not to "bring down" the current banking system,
>> but to have something real in place when the system collapses
>> under its own weight. But, do we need the blockchain technology?
>> If a currency is local, what's wrong with a good old-fashioned
>> cash book? We can still use it when the internet fails along with
>> the banking system!
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Sonia.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonia Corbett
>>
>> Mobile: 021 190 1290
>>
>> Skype: sonia.corbett3
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22/09/2016, at 4:27 PM, Laurence Boomert wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Love to hear peoples thoughts
>>
>> https://ellenbrown.com/2016/09/16/central-bank-digital-currencies-a-revolution-in-banking/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>> it, send an email to le-nz+un...@googlegroups.com
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>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> 09/25/16
>>
>> --
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>> Groups "Living Economies" group.
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>>
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Lowell Manning
The power doesn’t really lie with the central banks at the moment.
The power lies with the private banking system and the central banks more or less have to dance to their tune especially in the key countries like the US.
There have been some regulatory improvements with the Basle III accord, (The Bank for International Settlements, BIS, is still indirectly controlled by the private banking system) but there are still many areas, especially those related to derivatives and similar shadow banking “products” that remain poorly- or un- regulated.
I haven’t read the available detailed papers of the Mont Pelerin society that established the neoliberal philosophy (Austrian School under Hayek) in 1947 but here’s a link that will give you insights into what happened in NZ.
https://www.montpelerin.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Short-History-of-MPS-2014.pdf
Look for Ruth Richardson among their influential members.
So yes, the neoliberal system is still deeply embedded, but check this out ….
https://www.montpelerin.org/about-mps/
The society partly controls the world. It’s budget in 1961 just $38K in today’s money ….
Cheers
Lowell
Lowell Manning
BTW most of the currency in circulation in NZ seems to be either lost of in the black market....
The boon to domestic banks is that for every dollar of cash in circulation they could lend more than 10. So it gives them that last bit of leverage over the money supply.
Sweden is intending to go cash free by 2018 I think, though please correct me on the date ..
Best
Lowell
To post to this group, send email to le...@googlegroups.com.
Deck Hazen
That was the missing piece -- I'll have to go back over Ellen's post.
In that context crypto currency in the hands of the central banks is a
high-tech tool of oppression. I guess as long as we can keep our local
currency it doesn't change the landscape much, but I probably need to do
a bit more reading.
-- Deck
Deck Hazen
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