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Come back to me when this is what the vast majority of Linux users do. Or, for that matter, when you're actively contributing to X11 code to keep it maintained properly, which it just isn't at the moment.
One of these is a system designed for networking and remote display from the get go, on hardware that was much much much slower than that of the time, the other is RDP, which was Citrix's bolting on networking to windows GDI.
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However, it's worth pointing out there are multiple X servers for windows. If you don't mind pissing around the the vanilla XOrg one works (or used to), otherwise get something like mobaxterm for better integration.
Yes, X11 remoting does not really work smoothly unless you are on the same LAN. Which was its original use case anyway. On the other hand, an X11-based desktop over TigerVNC works just fine over a VPN tunneled through residential DSL (sans any sound, but for my uses I don't even need it).
I must confess my hatred of X goes back a long way and may not be entirely rational. I just grew up with decent GUIs (Hi RISC OS) and using X always feels like using treacle for me, there seems to be a perceivable gap between any interaction and it's result, that I don't feel with other GUIs.
I don't get the cognitive dissonance here. New software from the likes of MS, Apple, Google etc is generally powerless and only does what they want rather than what the user wants so old looking software being more powerful is logical.
Not only is old software adequate for many purposes. People have workflows. Often they have spent years or decades developing them. Why on earth would they want to alter their workflow and debug the changes every time some programmer/designer comes up with and rolls out yet another peculiar idea? Tools are tools. Do I need to buy a new hammer or pair of pliers every 18 months? Of course not. I frequently use hand tools I inherited from my dad. He bought them at estate sales in the 1920s. They still work. Just as well as their modern equivalents as far as I can see.
You don't have to. But good luck persuading developers to work on X11 and maintain it, particularly when it's superseded by something which works better for the majority of users, as Wayland ultimately will.
Seriously, it's not part of the plan, it's not a stated objective, it's not a use case for Wayland. The developers have stated that their goals are smooth tear free, high refresh rate and variable refresh rate displays, and a simplified stack for local graphics... they are not planning network support at all, and I don't think it's ever going to appear... of course, though, tools from other people may provide some kind of bolt-on but the network aspect of X11 is being discarded. So don't get your hopes up.
It's incredibly annoying, because the underlying assumption is that YOUR work is professional, whereas people who actually want things to develop and improve and focus on things which make the lives of ordinary users better are somehow... not professionals?
> Seriously, it's not part of the plan, it's not a stated objective, it's not a use case for Wayland. The developers have stated that their goals are smooth tear free, high refresh rate and variable refresh rate displays, and a simplified stack for local graphics... they are not planning network support at all, and I don't think it's ever going to appear... of course, though, tools from other people may provide some kind of bolt-on but the network aspect of X11 is being discarded. So don't get your hopes up.
This is a serious issue. I suppose the authors of Wayland don't care, but downstream should and apparently doesn't. RHEL9, only supported desktop is now Gnome. So X2Go which worked perfectly well for multiple user remote desktop access to a machine is no longer possible. The official alternative? VNC, which requires each desktop you want to run to be manually set up in a config file and tied to a specific port. VNC was a revelation when I first saw it (mumbles) twenty-ish years ago, now the way it's set up is outdated. In a way it's bizarre, RedHat's business is servers, not desktop systems, but here is wayland, a project that came out of redhat, and what is it's focus? Attempting to do high performance local graphics.
Actually, on Linux you can run a TigerVNC daemon listening on a single port on a remote machine that uses PAM authentication over TLS and creates a new virtual framebuffer for each connecting client in which you can run up a desktop environment.
On top of which you still must manually ssh tunnel to get a remote connection. Compare nomachine and x2go which dynamically handle all this for you. And you can call it a flaw in the desktop implementation if you like (although I suspect you have missed the point and think I mean multiple remote desktops for the same user), but RHEL have: 1. backed the development of Wayland, 2. exclusively pushed Gnome. So whether its the desktop or wayland that's to blame for this regression it *is* a regression.
Consider, we have a remote linux server to provide a linux desktop for people who primarily use windows machines but occassionally need linux. Currently we use X2Go for this, we only need to install some packages, they only need to click an icon on their desktop. The only per-user configuration we need to worry about is whether their account is permitted to login. Now we install RHEL9. How do we enable more than one user to remotely access a desktop on this system? What do they have to do on their machine to access it? What do we do when a new user wants access? Bear in mind that although they are unlikely to all use it at the same time we may have more than twenty people needing to do so. Sounds fun doesn't it?
Firstly, 'modern' X11 applications are not written correctly. They render into a local pixmap on the client, and then blit this across the network. This was NEVER the way X was intended to work, and will always require more network bandwidth. It was intended that you would send graphics primitives that are super efficient across the network, and let the server do all the rendering local to the display hardware (remember the backwards terminology of X11). In addition, font handling was done locally in the server as well, so the client program would sent the character references in a network efficient manner, not the complete glyphs that represent the characters. This means that properly written complex programs can be written that work over mere KB/s links. Many (many) years ago, I set up systems at a computer show, with just a 14.4Kb/s SLIP modem link back to the office, and we had all sorts of programs running through that link at a usable speed.
Of course, this is completely foreign to the people who learned to program graphic applications on Windows, so they don't use it in it's most efficient manner, and they then complain that it's slow. Whodathunkit!
Secondly, with X11, you don't need to remote control a whole graphics console on a remote system. This means that your window manager should be running on your local system which manages just your display hardware. This allows many, many people to run client programs on a single remote system simultaneously, without having to worry about virtual frame buffers and display manager for each user on the remote system. This means that the client program can be much lighter in resource use.
In addition, it allows you as a user to manage your sessions much more easily. Attached to a local or a remote system, a window displaying on your screen looks the same and they can sit next to each other, or overlap, and they can be managed the same, including cut and paste between windows (albeit slightly limited to text and parts of pixmaps, rather than more complex objects).
People who complain about the limitations of X11 really don't understand how it works, or how to use if effectively. It's not perfect, but it does things that Wayland/RDP/VNC will, by design, never be able to do.
Depends on the X app. If the app designer 'knew' the graphic card was local and he could wait for a response after drawing each pixel then network performance will be awful. If the app designer did some thinking in advance to send as many commands as possible before waiting for a response then network performance is fine.
It is true newer X11 programs do the drawing and font rendering themselves and push pixels, and that really breaks the original idea. I first encountered it with some bloated Java program, that was totally impossible to remote the plain X11 way. The GUI library redrew the entire window for every change (not sure if Java still does this, it was 20 years ago). Using it with VNC server worked. It looks like a X11 server to the application, but sends only the changed pixels (or rather changed blocks) to the remote client.
Without X11 we would be back to Windows 95 where the best you can do is screen scrape. Wayland is OK because it allows for multiple sessions in that regard. But unfortunately we are still back to "dumb" rasters, aka VNC. This will never be as efficient as utilizing a subset of an intelligent protocol.
Also, the *fastest* solution we have, even beating Microsoft's annoyingly impressive RDP is X11 TCP/UDP (not tunneled through SSH) with an appropriate Xt-based toolkit like Motif. Looks like "old" but its performance far outpaces more modern solutions. For many use-cases, this really is the solution, still after all these years. And we are effectively going the wrong direction if we ever want to remedy that.
We might not care about remote desktop solutions personally (I prefer SSH); but someone who develops awesome software that we both use, just might need them... Hopefully Asahi Linux can one day fix this shortcoming.
Well, that's an opinion. Mine is rather that it fits brilliantly the client-server paradigm* provided you are ready to write the client part in JavaScript** and accept that this means that it is effectively in the public domain.
* I remember well the first time that I spake the word "para-dime". My interlocutor looked puzzled. After a bit he inquired "do you mean para-dijjum"? I've tried to avoid the word since. Substitute "model" here, if you like.
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