Download Merlino Movie Italian Download
Myong Killings
October 28, 2007 at 07:24 PM Hey guys. Long story short, I am looking at possibly buying a 300 year old Italian violin that may be made by Camillo Barbiero. There are man things I absolutely love about it. Namely tone and projection. But some things bother me. I loved the tone and quality much more the first day. Then I straightened the bridge and it got more power but seemed to lose some sweetness and nuances.
October 28, 2007 at 07:44 PM Hi Emmanuel. I just traded a 300 year old Italian for a modern American. The thing with the old Italian was that it needed CONSTANT repairs. They're like Fiats...when they work, they're great, but good luck getting it to work every day.
October 29, 2007 at 03:10 AM Where are you located? One consultant I would trust is Givens Violins in Minneapolis. Claire Givens and Andrew Dipper are violin historians and expert appraisers. They do appraisals for Antiques Road Show on PBS. Andrew Dipper is also a world-class restorer of historic instruments, with a special expertise in the period of 1570-1815.
They see old violins frequently. The concertmasters for both first-rate orchestras in town take their violins to Givens Violins for maintenance, including a 1742 Guarnerius del Gesu and a 1700 Matteo Goffriller.
I have no affiliation with Givens Violins, and there are other consultants of this calibre. I'm just saying that I would seek the advice of someone like them who can provide a historical appraisal along with the luthier expertise.
October 28, 2007 at 09:20 PM Emmanuelle, I would check out a wider variety of things. I have definately heard lesser makers such as you describe having a good sound, but even though they're very cheap relative to their other 300 year old companions, they often aren't the best instruments structurally (having all sorts of problems). I'd look for base bar cracks, sound post cracks, what repairs have been done (really, you'd need to engage an expert if you're serious. There are a few consultants who will put the violin through an x ray machine and god knows what else).
I don't know what price you'd get for a Bernardel, but it should be in the mid 5 figures (maybe in the lower mid 5 figures). Honestly though, there are so many great living makers now, so you have a lot of choices.
I know I fell totally in love with my old Dutchman and after one week on trial you'd have had to prise him out of my hands with a red hot poker if you wanted to part him from me, but I'm really glad that I got my violin teacher to try him out and give a thumbs-up before I went ahead with the deal. There were small things I was wondering about and getting someone who is a much better player than I am to double check them himself and provide approval, was the final reassurance I needed before making that large financial commitment.
October 28, 2007 at 10:23 PM As violin makers say "age is a phenomenon,not a miracle".If the violin was mediocre when it was new it will be mediocre 300 years later just "older"sounding.I got rid of my "Old Dutchman" made in 1798 and bought a modern Italian (1925).No regrets...
October 28, 2007 at 10:47 PM You really need to find a professional (dealer as consultant, not player) whom you trust to guide you through this one. I'm finding it hard to believe that a _purported_ Italian violin _possibly_ [in real life terms, that sounds good, but means absolutely nothing in dollars] made by a maker no one's ever heard of (I've got a pretty good library, and I can't find him) is as expensive as you're implying, so I eagerly await the rest of the story.
October 29, 2007 at 12:42 AM When you buy any instrument think first about condition and authenticity. Then and only then consider the sound of the instrument. A great sounding violin in poor condition may sound great one day, but not the next. Also, unless you have ironclad papers by someone like Beare, you will have great difficulty unloading the instrument in the future.
I don`t think this sounds too great..As as been noted above, it is -very easy- to finbd an old instrument that sounds just great and then become blinded to the relaity that an equa;lly greta instrument of a younger and more relaible vintage can be found. I don`t mean just modern. An Italian from around 1920 (why have thta Italian prejudice anywa?) can be mind blowing. Or see the comments from top soloists on this site about brand new insturments such as Needham. Or consider Tetzlaff who uses modern Greiners, passes them on to others and has been very outspoken on the subject of how good modern isntruments can be.
I also just played on a much cheaper and lesse rknown maker for a year (Galetti) and although it was not a -great- violin it was a clean slate to work on and it evolved into a very fine sinsturment within its limitations.
I also note somwehat tongue in cheek thta the best violin I ever played on by a -very ling way- was by Andreas Guarneri... the perosn who let me play it for seven hours still has bite marks on his shins from when he tried to get it back from me.
I took the violin to Alex Kerr today and he tried it. He absolutely loved it and said that it easily compared to much more expensive instruments he has played. (Rocca Pressenda, etc) but the tone was much nicer.
If that's the way you feel about it, you can pretty much rule out most violins before 1850, and all the great Cremonese ones, including virtually 100% of Strads. That's more for the rest of us. Thanks!
October 29, 2007 at 05:35 AM As long as they aren't really serious cracks, a well repaired one can make that area stronger than it was before. If Mr. Morel did the work, I wouldn't have a problem buying it.
October 29, 2007 at 05:08 PM "I'm also going to take it to the violin making teacher here Tom Sparks, and if it passes all the above then probably to another luthier or two. Alex Kerr recommended Mark Russell in Indianapolis.
Your local luthiers may be able to advise you concerning overall condition, but I'd put a sizeable bet down that the two gentlemen you mentioned are not familiar with the maker. If you wish to make an informed decision, I'd consider a visit to one of the better shops in nearby Chicago for a second opinion on origin and value.
October 29, 2007 at 05:58 PM Emmanuel, I'd definately take it somewhere before you buy. Also, Mr. Morel does some of the best set ups in the business, if you weren't totally happy with the soundpost etc..., definately take advantage.
Under the black light all repairs were done so well that nothing showed under the black light. AKA all varnish matches perfectly due to it being oil and pigments. So whoever did the repairs didn't do a shop job of it.
Lastly I really do feel the violin needs an adjustment. The violin sounded completely different the first two days I had it (much better) and the day after I got it I straightened the bridge as the G side was tilted toward the fingerboard and the E not (or the other way) My friend Stass says this is impossible it would affect the sound as much as I say it does and the weather hasn't changed much either. But after straighting the bridge the violin feels chocked. And the bad thing is I can't get it to sound the same as it did before.
October 30, 2007 at 01:15 AM Precise bridge position is pretty important, tonally--I would rate it about equal with the post in that regard. You will find very, very few adjusters who realize that or can manipulate it effectively, though.
I once got to look like a genius once when I was visiting, on an unrelated errand, someone whose Strad was sounding horrible, and when he asked me if I could help, I just scooted the bridge less than 1/2mm, back to where the marks for the feet were. He was blown away by the difference, and frankly, so was I, at that time, which was quite a while ago now.
October 30, 2007 at 01:54 AM I am going through the exact same thing right now Michael.The G string on my fiddle was stiff and compressed sounding.I loosened the strings and "clicked" the bridge towards the bass side about half a millimetre.So far so good.I also loosened the chin rest on the bass side a half turn.Hope this works.
October 30, 2007 at 02:34 AM Emmanuel. Don't do it. Trust me, hearing how much work has been done on that violin, only buy it if you can afford to dump a good, solid $5k a year into maintenance and upkeep. I know this from experience! Before you make the investment, I really urge you to try some modern instruments. It may save you money and heartache in the long run ;)
October 30, 2007 at 03:36 AM Michael--it was living hell. For the first few years I had it, it was pretty much ok, but quite fussy. But then when I got into conservatory and started putting in 8-10 hours a day on it, it went nuts. First the neck sank down, and then I find that the fingerboard is far too low..then the bass bar cracked, soundpost went, bridge had to get redone when a wedge went under the fingerboard...then the rib decided to split away from the top...then the wood NEAR the soundpost cracked...not to mention the fact that the pegs had to be redone...it was really just sad. It was a great instrument but not at ALL worth the upkeep.
Unfortunately I can't get it. My parents are in the "we already got you a good violin" phase. They didn't say I can't get it. I just would have to take it into my own hands. Loans, selling violin, raising money. etc I either don't want her enough or it's simply impossible.
Well it's kind of a sad day but I figure I'll see other violins in the future. The Joseph Curtin I'm trying at the moment is loud but that's about it. :( No comparison to the italian. My Bernardel is actually nicer too.
My son just purchased a beautiful violin made by Philip Perret in New York. He had been the foreman of the famed Jaques Francoise shop for many years. Anyway, this violin far exceeded the Joseph Curtin my son also tried as well as all of the older instruments. We spent about two years looking for the perfect soloist instrument, powerful, yet warm, resonant and sweet. You might contact him.
7fc3f7cf58