LiDAR data for Brandenburg, Germany

[Laurentiu Constantin]

Dear everyone,

I am an ecology student from Kiel University, currently preparing my Master's thesis. My project involves modelling land subsidence in a peatland in western Brandenburg. For that I need older DTMs of the area. An up-to-date DTM in raster format (Esri grid) can be ordered from the LGB (Landesvermessung und Geobasisinformation Brandenburg). But asking them about older DTMs, I just got bad news, in that the LGB update their DTM by overwriting the previous version. Which means they have no stored data from previous years.

Does anyone happen to know who collects LiDAR data for Brandenburg and might be storing older data as well? Or if point cloud data for this region are even accessible for a student? I really hope I can access such data (as point clouds or raster... both would be good). I would be extremely grateful for any information. 

Thanks and best wishes,

Laurentiu Constantin

International Master in Applied Ecology, CAU Kiel

[Martin Isenburg]

Hello Laurentiu,

are there some Landesvermessung staff from any of the German states in this forum? It seems that Laurentiu is saying that the survey department of the state of Brandenburg (LGB = Landesvermessung und Geobasisinformation Brandenburg) does not have an open data policy but instead

(1) sells the data paid for with our taxes back to us tax-payers?

(2) collects expensive LiDAR multiple times over the past years and should have something very valuable now, namely a "multi-temporal LiDAR collection" but instead deleted the previous data sets, which is akin of burning tax-payer money?

(3) distributes requested data in a proprietary vendor format?

if this even partly true then I would like to express my utmost regret and embarrassment that my native Germany has such backwards, wasteful. and science & innovation hampering geospatial data policies and practices. Can we not leave the cave like Thuringia and North-Rhine Westfalia have shown us is possible?

Best of luck finding some data out there, Laurentiu, but LiDAR data re-use is rare and return-of-investment is minimal when states do not provide their data open and free available as evidenced over and over again. Read these articles for some concrete evidence:

https://rapidlasso.com/2014/11/30/restricting-access-to-national-lidar-is-it-worth-it/

https://rapidlasso.com/2017/01/03/first-open-lidar-in-germany/

https://gispoint.de/artikelarchiv/gis/2017/gisbusiness-ausgabe-52017/4209-open-lidar-erreicht-deutschland-open-lidar-arrives-in-germany.html

Regards,

Martin @rapidlasso

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[Jérôme Chatillon]

Hi,

I'm working for the company who did an acquisition lidar in march 2011. At the time, we delivered the points as ascii files (split by class and echoes...), but we still have the LAS files :)


I'm saying that I can give you all we still have in our archives, but let see what we can do.

Jerome

[Jérôme Chatillon]

I totaly agree that some German states are wasting the taxer payer money with LiDAR projects.

[Laurentiu Constantin]

Dear Jérôme,

Thank you so much for this info. Any data that would help me produce a terrain model for the year 2011 would be extremely helpful (elevation precision 20cm or better). I need an area of around 15-20km2, situated more or less between Nauen and Rathenow (it's within the Havelländisches Luch Nature Conservation Area) - see location in attached picture (green frame).

If I could get this data from you, it would amazing! Thank you so much for your support!

Best regards from Kiel,

Laurentiu
​

--

[Jérôme Chatillon]

Hi Laurentiu,

Sorry, but the project we have in our archive doesn't cover at all the location you target.

Good luck.

Jerome

[Martin Isenburg]

Hello,

off list Laurentiu and me have also received a message in German directly from the people responsible for the data. I obtained their permission to translate this into English and share it with the forum. It states:

============================================

Dear Mr. Constantin, Mr. Isenburg,

I would like to add the following information to your questions and thoughts. In Brandenburg roughly two DGM (same as DTM = digital terrain model) data sets are available. On the one hand, the "DGM Klassik", which is available statewide with a 10m resolution and depicts the inventory from before 2011. This model is still available as a historical product, but it was discontinued since 2011. I suspect that this model is not suitable for comparison and answering your question. On the other hand, the DGM1 from LIDAR data has been available statewide since 2012 for Brandenburg. This had been continuously updated with photogrammetric data extracted from the ongoing aerial image surveys.. Only since the last winter season 2017/18 have we started to update partial areas with the help of new ALS aerial flights. Accordingly, we currently have only one LIDAR database from the years 2002-2011 available.

The gridded terrain model (DGM) can be obtained in various raster data formats, and also the raw point cloud data  is available in ASCII (x, y, z)  format.

https://www.geobasis-bb.de/geodaten/dgm-laserscan.htm

https://www.geobasis-bb.de/geodaten/dgm-laserscanrohdaten.htm

 

Only with the data of the new aerial campaign (2017/18) will we have access to data in the LAS format, which of course we will deliver in the original, with ~ 5P / m².

It is true that for the reason given above, we have virtually no other version (snapshots of previous moments in time) of the laser DTM. Whether and in what form we can implement and offer this in future, will have to be clarified.

On the "open data policy" I would like to refer to the current discussions and developments in the context of the "open data campaign". For some time now, I have taken note of various points of view, interests and obviously also emotions. "Open data", as you mentioned, is already offered by some states. Also in Brandenburg, the political decision makers are dealing with this question. I assume that a decision on "open data" will be made soon.  Please refer to the relevant media in  regards to when this is going to happen.

Kind Regards.

============================================

Regards,

Martin @rapidlasso

 

[Anuj Gupta]

Hello Jerome, 

Is it possible for me to buy aerial LiDAR data for Berlin? We are looking for atleast 10 points per meter density.

THanks

Anuj