CW-5000 Coolant
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FabLab ElPaso
Apr 8, 2015, 11:00:20 PM4/8/15
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Hey Lasersaur'ers,
We recently finished a 'saur build and it is cutting really well but
there are a couple of hiccups. Biggest of all is that the used
CW-5000 water chiller doesn't seem to be chilling the water very well.
It's circulating so the pump is good but temp rises fairly quickly
when cutting at full power (80W tube not 100W). I thought maybe there
is a way to refill the coolant but have no idea where to start given
the abysmal manual. Anyone tried this before?
Thanks,
Gustavo
We recently finished a 'saur build and it is cutting really well but
there are a couple of hiccups. Biggest of all is that the used
CW-5000 water chiller doesn't seem to be chilling the water very well.
It's circulating so the pump is good but temp rises fairly quickly
when cutting at full power (80W tube not 100W). I thought maybe there
is a way to refill the coolant but have no idea where to start given
the abysmal manual. Anyone tried this before?
Thanks,
Gustavo
Steve Baker
Apr 9, 2015, 2:44:26 AM4/9/15
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I don't think the CW-5000 has "coolant" - just the water you put into the
tank. Make sure the level is still high enough when the pump is running -
use a small amount of anti-freeze - or (I prefer) "Water Wetter" - which
you can get in most automotive stores.
If the water is circulating, and the fans are running - then maybe the
filters on the sides of the machine are blocked?
Maybe you have the thermostat turned up too high?
Our CW-5000 runs at around 24 to 28 degC when the 100w laser is running
for hours at 100% power...but it can't cool things down below the ambient
air temperature.
I guess:
1) Check the water levels when the machine is running.
2) Check the temperature set on the front panel is around 25 degC.
3) Check that the air filters aren't blocked (you can
remove and wash them).
4) Check the ambient room temperature is well under 25 degC.
5) One possible bad thing would be if you have the chiller in a confined
space where the hot air being expelled by the fans at the back of the
machine is somehow being routed back to the inputs on the sides of the
machine.
We wash the filters once a month with active use of our machines.
(We also have a CW-5200 - that is an actively refrigerated system with
something like Freon - it was shipped to us by mistake, and theoretically,
it has the capability to chill TWO 100 watt laser tubes.)
If none of this helps, please tell us the temperature of the air going
into the inlets on the sides of the machine, the temperature of the air
coming out of the fans at the back - and the water temperature it's
reporting on the front panel.
-- Steve
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-- Steve
j...@allartburns.org
Apr 9, 2015, 1:24:41 PM4/9/15
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On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 2:44:26 AM UTC-4, SteveBaker wrote:
I don't think the CW-5000 has "coolant" - just the water you put into the
tank. Make sure the level is still high enough when the pump is running -
use a small amount of anti-freeze - or (I prefer) "Water Wetter" - which
you can get in most automotive stores.
It's probably not an issue with these coolers, but automotive coolant often has anti-leak material to clog tiny holes/pores in cooling systems. Given the cost of the lasersaur (more than my tig welder!) I use the same Miller coolant I run in the tig. ~5 year lifetime as long as you keep the system clean and it moves heat like mad.
Steve Baker
Apr 9, 2015, 3:03:43 PM4/9/15
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-- Steve
FabLab ElPaso
Apr 14, 2015, 2:11:51 AM4/14/15
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Thanks for the replies!
The tank already contains distilled water + water wetter. The filters
look pretty clean but will try cleaning them again. There are no
obstructions on the sides of the chiller, but the back is only about 6
in from a wall so the warm exhaust might be recirculating back to the
sides. Oops. Will see if moving it helps.
The tank already contains distilled water + water wetter. The filters
look pretty clean but will try cleaning them again. There are no
obstructions on the sides of the chiller, but the back is only about 6
in from a wall so the warm exhaust might be recirculating back to the
sides. Oops. Will see if moving it helps.
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Steve Baker
Apr 14, 2015, 12:14:40 PM4/14/15
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Well, I guess it wouldn't hurt to pull it away from the wall.
There really isn't much going on inside the CW-5000 - it basically sucks
air in through the side-vent filters, blows it across a spiral copper coil
that the water flows through on the way back from the laser tube - then
sucks the hot air out through the back of the machine. The fans are
turned on and off by the thermostat - which is set through the front panel
controls.
I don't know what the flow rate of the water pump should be...maybe that's
in the specs for the CW-5000 - and you could test that by pumping water
from a full bucket to an empty one for (say) 20 seconds and weighing the
water you pump to deduce how fast it's going.
You should be sure that the fans are actually turning on when the water
temperature gets above what the thermostat is set to. That would
eliminate the thermostat.
You should also measure the air temperature at the inlets on both sides of
the machine to be sure that it's well below the temperature that the
thermostat is set to. The machine isn't a refrigerator - it can only cool
things down to the ambient temperature of the air. Our CW-5000 thermostat
is set to kick in at 25 degC - and our air conditioning is set to 24 degC
so the fans run more or less continuously - and the temperature readout
hovers right around 25 to 27 degrees when the laser is running.
If the water is flowing fast enough - and the thermostat is working and
the incoming air is cool enough - then the only thing left is that one of
the fans aren't working or that the airflow is blocked somehow.
You could (temporarily) remove the filters on the sides of the machine and
see if the temperature goes down substantially (that would eliminate
blocked vents).
If you've eliminated all of those things - then a dead (or slow-spinning)
fan is really the only think left!
It's easy enough to remove the lid of the machine to see what's going
on...but you can't run the laser with the lid removed because you'd screw
up the airflow...so set the thermostat down BELOW the air temperature in
the room to force it to run the fans continuously, turn off the lasersaur
and look at all the fans to see if one is moving slowly or not spinning at
all. You can also check that there are no blockages in the air flow path
inside the machine.
Those are really the only things I can think of that could be going wrong.
-- Steve
FabLab ElPaso wrote:
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/CAF%2BrYqQfmuFWZaDq0-NdNb%3DSH3JVT%2BxPss2EDK%2B_5hdJ6djvGw%40mail.gmail.com.
-- Steve
There really isn't much going on inside the CW-5000 - it basically sucks
air in through the side-vent filters, blows it across a spiral copper coil
that the water flows through on the way back from the laser tube - then
sucks the hot air out through the back of the machine. The fans are
turned on and off by the thermostat - which is set through the front panel
controls.
I don't know what the flow rate of the water pump should be...maybe that's
in the specs for the CW-5000 - and you could test that by pumping water
from a full bucket to an empty one for (say) 20 seconds and weighing the
water you pump to deduce how fast it's going.
You should be sure that the fans are actually turning on when the water
temperature gets above what the thermostat is set to. That would
eliminate the thermostat.
You should also measure the air temperature at the inlets on both sides of
the machine to be sure that it's well below the temperature that the
thermostat is set to. The machine isn't a refrigerator - it can only cool
things down to the ambient temperature of the air. Our CW-5000 thermostat
is set to kick in at 25 degC - and our air conditioning is set to 24 degC
so the fans run more or less continuously - and the temperature readout
hovers right around 25 to 27 degrees when the laser is running.
If the water is flowing fast enough - and the thermostat is working and
the incoming air is cool enough - then the only thing left is that one of
the fans aren't working or that the airflow is blocked somehow.
You could (temporarily) remove the filters on the sides of the machine and
see if the temperature goes down substantially (that would eliminate
blocked vents).
If you've eliminated all of those things - then a dead (or slow-spinning)
fan is really the only think left!
It's easy enough to remove the lid of the machine to see what's going
on...but you can't run the laser with the lid removed because you'd screw
up the airflow...so set the thermostat down BELOW the air temperature in
the room to force it to run the fans continuously, turn off the lasersaur
and look at all the fans to see if one is moving slowly or not spinning at
all. You can also check that there are no blockages in the air flow path
inside the machine.
Those are really the only things I can think of that could be going wrong.
-- Steve
FabLab ElPaso wrote:
-- Steve
FabLab ElPaso
Apr 23, 2015, 2:32:22 AM4/23/15
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Pretty embarrassing mistake. Chiller should run off 220V instead of
110V (so why does it accept a standard 110V cord !?!?). The fans were
turning but needless to say woefully underpowered. Costs more to put
a 220V drop next to the lasersaur than to buy the same chiller rated
for 110V, so anybody interested in a perfectly good used CW-5000
chiller?
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110V (so why does it accept a standard 110V cord !?!?). The fans were
turning but needless to say woefully underpowered. Costs more to put
a 220V drop next to the lasersaur than to buy the same chiller rated
for 110V, so anybody interested in a perfectly good used CW-5000
chiller?
Steve Baker
Apr 23, 2015, 3:22:07 AM4/23/15
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What?
No...my CW-5000 (and my CW-5200, which can chill two 100w lasers at once!)
run on 110v power.
Perhaps you somehow got delivered the 220v version by mistake - but for
100% sure, you don't need 220v to run a chiller...no way.
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/CAF%2BrYqSawt14G9ZwrE_H4L2UmbvVVQDxBw8Ur5a7HLJBJAqfZQ%40mail.gmail.com.
No...my CW-5000 (and my CW-5200, which can chill two 100w lasers at once!)
run on 110v power.
Perhaps you somehow got delivered the 220v version by mistake - but for
100% sure, you don't need 220v to run a chiller...no way.
j. eric townsend
Apr 23, 2015, 10:38:58 AM4/23/15
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On 4/23/15 02:32, FabLab ElPaso wrote:
> Pretty embarrassing mistake. Chiller should run off 220V instead of
> 110V (so why does it accept a standard 110V cord !?!?)
Same problem here. I opened it up and discovered it was easy to
> Pretty embarrassing mistake. Chiller should run off 220V instead of
> 110V (so why does it accept a standard 110V cord !?!?)
manually rewire it to be a 110 cooler.
If you get stuck, let me know and I'll take a photo of my wiring.
--
J. Eric Townsend, IDSA
design <http://www.allartburns.org>
hacking <http://www.flatline.net>
consulting <http://www.functionalprototype.com>
FabLab ElPaso
Apr 23, 2015, 10:51:42 AM4/23/15
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Hi J,
A pic would be amazing help!
A pic would be amazing help!
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FabLab ElPaso
Apr 23, 2015, 11:15:04 AM4/23/15
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Also, any idea what the current draw would be at 110V? Is a 20A
breaker sufficient for your setup?
breaker sufficient for your setup?
Steve Baker
Apr 23, 2015, 12:16:16 PM4/23/15
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I don't have a number - but I know that I can run an entire lasersaur
setup (lasersaur, CW-5000 *or* CW-5200 chiller, 750cfm pancake fan,
laptop, airbrush compressor) from one 20 A circuit.
For a while, I was running TWO entire lasersaur setups (plus shopvac, desk
lamp, window fan, etc) from one 20A circuit - and the breaker only tripped
out rather rarely.
So (admittedly without measuring anything), I'd say that a complete
lasersaur setup uses no more than around 10A. Just don't run the whole
thing from one cheapo extension cord!
-- Steve
FabLab ElPaso wrote:
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/CAF%2BrYqR%2BmK99n2tJzNY%3DuK3AVLS_RRDnxZqLvPR7DMD0OUCswA%40mail.gmail.com.
-- Steve
setup (lasersaur, CW-5000 *or* CW-5200 chiller, 750cfm pancake fan,
laptop, airbrush compressor) from one 20 A circuit.
For a while, I was running TWO entire lasersaur setups (plus shopvac, desk
lamp, window fan, etc) from one 20A circuit - and the breaker only tripped
out rather rarely.
So (admittedly without measuring anything), I'd say that a complete
lasersaur setup uses no more than around 10A. Just don't run the whole
thing from one cheapo extension cord!
-- Steve
FabLab ElPaso wrote:
-- Steve
FabLab ElPaso
Apr 26, 2015, 7:21:24 PM4/26/15
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Any chance we could get a rewiring pic? Opened it up and cleaned the
cooling fins but can't figure out the power circuit.
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cooling fins but can't figure out the power circuit.
j. eric townsend
Apr 26, 2015, 11:13:37 PM4/26/15
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On 4/26/15 19:21, FabLab ElPaso wrote:
> Any chance we could get a rewiring pic? Opened it up and cleaned the
> cooling fins but can't figure out the power circuit.
Sorry, I got behind on my work this weekend, I have your email flagged.
> Any chance we could get a rewiring pic? Opened it up and cleaned the
> cooling fins but can't figure out the power circuit.
This was the first warm/sunny weekend since winter so we got
distracted with outside chores and non-freezing weather.
FabLab ElPaso
May 8, 2015, 7:06:52 PM5/8/15
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Hi J. Wondering if you've had a chance to snap a pic of the rewiring.
Swapping out the water in the chiller *works* for longer jobs but it
would be nice to have a permanent fix.
Swapping out the water in the chiller *works* for longer jobs but it
would be nice to have a permanent fix.
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