Re: Fw: carbon catalysts Fwd: wind backup - flywheel energy storage vs STOR diesels
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dave andrews
Aug 19, 2010, 5:00:46 AM8/19/10
to carbon-c...@googlegroups.com, Claverton AB MAIN GROUP, large-power-conventional-power-...@googlegroups.com, Claverton Supergrid group
THIS NOW HAS THE PRESENTATION DT ORIGINALLY SENT CUT DOWN TO BE ABLE TO CIRCULATE - INTERESTING DATA AS DAVE SAYS 89 - 98.
Responding to Dave Andrews' email
Dave
I have spent a little while looking for some public domain data I had but don't seem to be able to find it! Your question is an interesting one but can't really be answered in the way you present it. In the early days of the electricity market when Dinorwig was owned by National Grid they typically kept 2 units for arbitrage, 2 units spinning in air for short term reserve, and two units static for standing reserve; which fitted with the NGC contractual framework of the day.
With the advent of NETA and IP's ownership of the plant as part of a wider portfolio matters have become somewhat more sophisticated. You can get an idea of what is going on from this interesting investor presentation of 2007. If you look at slides 39 to 47 they illustrate how they use trading to add value to their anticipated generation output as timescales approach the day ahead stage. Slides 89 to 98 show how at the day ahead stage they flip out of the arbitrage world and into the balancing and reserve markets. Slides 108 and 109 illustrate a particular investment at Dinorwig that was intended to add to the overall value of these processes.
Somewhere I thought I had a much better picture of how this value optimisation evolves for the UK International Power portfolio as real time approaches; but I can't find it!! I am not sure if any of this helps with the questions posed at the end of Andrew Smith's email. It is all a matter of system inertia!
A - It should be possible to estimate the energy available at any instant in time and National Grid will hold a sufficiency of reserve dependent upon this estimate ... as enshrined in the SQSS
B - This reserve is there to stabilise frequency. Voltage is another matter, and the costs more difficult to quantify I suspect
C - Observed frequency variations tend to be a function of the size of the system; UCTE is very stable, the Irish system fairly frisky!!
I doubt if any of this helps .... but it is all very interesting!!
Dave
I have spent a little while looking for some public domain data I had but don't seem to be able to find it! Your question is an interesting one but can't really be answered in the way you present it. In the early days of the electricity market when Dinorwig was owned by National Grid they typically kept 2 units for arbitrage, 2 units spinning in air for short term reserve, and two units static for standing reserve; which fitted with the NGC contractual framework of the day.
With the advent of NETA and IP's ownership of the plant as part of a wider portfolio matters have become somewhat more sophisticated. You can get an idea of what is going on from this interesting investor presentation of 2007. If you look at slides 39 to 47 they illustrate how they use trading to add value to their anticipated generation output as timescales approach the day ahead stage. Slides 89 to 98 show how at the day ahead stage they flip out of the arbitrage world and into the balancing and reserve markets. Slides 108 and 109 illustrate a particular investment at Dinorwig that was intended to add to the overall value of these processes.
Somewhere I thought I had a much better picture of how this value optimisation evolves for the UK International Power portfolio as real time approaches; but I can't find it!! I am not sure if any of this helps with the questions posed at the end of Andrew Smith's email. It is all a matter of system inertia!
A - It should be possible to estimate the energy available at any instant in time and National Grid will hold a sufficiency of reserve dependent upon this estimate ... as enshrined in the SQSS
B - This reserve is there to stabilise frequency. Voltage is another matter, and the costs more difficult to quantify I suspect
C - Observed frequency variations tend to be a function of the size of the system; UCTE is very stable, the Irish system fairly frisky!!
I doubt if any of this helps .... but it is all very interesting!!
David
David Tolley
DLT Consulting
+44 (0) 7989 493874
+44 (0) 1962 877329
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