SECTION 3 - FAILED 4 TIMES, HELP!!!

[Shawn Smyth]

Anyone have anything they can provide to help me??

Thinking about just stopping for a while....$2,300 is weighing heavy and I'm not sure my heart can take another FAIL.....In other words, I'm at a complete loss.

I have no clue where I keep going wrong, I felt super confident this time, I studied endlessly and I feel like I'm exhausting resources. And now I have to re-up the council record for another $155.......is this even necessary?? Thanks for the help.....time to drink.

[Z]

I'm in the same boat - just took section 3 for the second time and did not pass.... I honesty don't understand what to do differently.

I found this resource however for bike lane design which I wish I read about earlier:

https://nacto.org/event/nacto-webinar-designing-streets-ages-abilities-bicycling/

[Sunny Xu Zhang]

Just failed section 4 for the 4th time in April... starting to have doubts about life! I think it’s time to go through the study materials, maybe I’m not using the right reference... T . T

[Shawn Smyth]

I’ve sorta lost hope too...it’s way too expensive to keep trying in my opinion especially with the council record stuff every year.

Maybe I’ll try again next year, but first I need to pick up some shifts at the local revue to pay for the last few times. Wish me luck!

[Elleana]

Don't give up. I tried several times before passing 3, same with 4. But finally I made it. From what I saw in the exam, you have to read the books carefully. there's many questions regarding neighborhood planning and TOD.Understand the concepts. The graphic standard and urban planning is the book to read very careful. Do the sample tests.  I also read Site Analysis and the other one recommend in CLARB recommendations. Keep trying. You are very close now.

[Elleana]

Shawn, did you do ppi, shake and baker tests?

[Elleana]

Sunny, what materials you have used for section 4? I also studied to a point that I don't know what else I could do before I passed.

[Jason Rubek]

After having just escaped section 3, here's my biggest piece of advice while sitting for the exam:

Thoroughly study each question, understanding and identifying key indicator words, to fully comprehend what answer they are looking for. Force yourself to read every question very slowly, several times, before even looking at the answers. Without a doubt, I spent more time reading the questions than I did selecting the answers. Passing a standardized test only shows one thing - that you're capable of passing a standardized test. With that in mind, the material you're being tested on is almost secondary. Passing Section 3 - Design, make a designer of you it does not. 

Other key things already found on this group: Saving the diagram questions for last, process of elimination, ect. 

Study material I used:

-Lare prep exams - I bought both of them (A&B) and took each one twice. Four total practice exams spaced throughout three months of studying which gave good indications of progress. Don't just take the exam - study the answers they provide as well. VERY beneficial.

-Mel's notes found here on google group

-UCLA prep course

-LARE - Orientation guide specifications - this is your bible. Sleep with your bible, eat with your bible, pray with your bible. Know each of the main & sub specifications 

[Jason Rubek]

Forgot to say in my initial piece of advice.... As lame (maybe unethical is a better word?) as it is, I found a large majority of the written questions to be subtly misleading or even outright intentionally deceptive. Had I not read each question so thoroughly to realize and understand them, I doubt I would have passed. 

[Sunny Xu Zhang]

Hi Elleana, I have been using Time Saver Standards and Site engineering. It doesn’t seem to cover a lot of the questions I encountered: supplementary conditions, what’s in infrastructure plan, emergency access etc... at a loss. Please let me know if you have some insights! Thank you!!!

[B]

Totally agree Jason. I’ve said it in a couple of other posts, the first 3 things I always say to do when taking the exam is 1. Read the question 2. Read the question 3. READ the question. I’ve sat there working on a question thinking “the answer is A and C for sure” only to read one last time and the light bulb goes off that they mean something totally different and the answer should be B and D. You have to get into the head of the person that wrote the question and understand what answer they want from you not what you think would be the right answer. Crazy way to take a test but it will get you through. Good luck!

[Shawn Smyth]

I've taken shake and bake but it was so off from everything else I studied. I also bought and have taken the LAREPrep exams countless times with high or 100% pass rates. I think those are good, but at this point I've memorized the answers so it's sort of pointless now...

I think I need to come at studying from another angle. This past time I thought I nailed it...I read Steiner/Butler cover to cover and took notes and studied two review packets with flash cards for several weeks. I also took a $100 section 3 webinar that was COMPLETE b.s....Now I'm in recuperate mode and need to pay off the last 4 tests before taking it again haha..... 

[Shawn Smyth]

If anyone knows of section 3 courses that are PROVEN beneficial and not $400 AND are somewhere in the DelMarVa area, PLEASE let me know......

THANKS SO MUCH!

[Troy Anderson]

May be too far for you, but I would recommend UGA's review course, June 6-8th in Athens, GA. Section 3 is specifically that Friday, the 7th. That section is $170 for the full day. Also an excuse to go to Athens in June is pretty worth it!

https://ced.uga.edu/news_and_events/continuing-education/lare-review/

[Yuye Zhang]

I totally agree with Jason and B. The wording at LARE exam is very tricky. None of the practice exams shows the same level of trickiness as the real LARE exam. I read every question at least twice before I even get to look at the choices. After looking at the choices, I would go back to read the questions again most of the time to help figure out what the question is really asking and testing. Sometimes, it's testing the fundamental concept and you need to zoom out of the details and look at the big picture. You have to get into the head of the person who wrote the questions. 

I studied the recommended books for section 3. But what I found most help is 'LARE Review Practice Exam for section 3". The questions in it are most similar to the ones that shew up in my exam last December. There is explanation for all the questions and really help you understand what LARE is looking for.

[B]

Shake and Bake is not helpful at all. I had a ton of issues with their Section 3 test and found it a waste of time. It may have been practical once upon a time but the current LARE isn’t as vague anymore.

Do you currently have a job with an Architectural firm? Practical experience is huge for sections 3 and 4 and make them much easier to pass. They are much more practical use based questions then 1 and 2 which were more memorizing term based. I know some states require a years worth of practical experience before you can get your license anyway, so kill 2 birds with one stone.

[blu bird]

I think Section 3 is the hardest because I find it so subjective. I studied Section 2 and Section 3 together and took them at the same time and passed but felt it could have gone either way. I only focused on 3 of the study references and any practice exam I could get my hands on. I think my experience is what helped me the most with this section. I do a lot of public involvement work so the Stakeholder Process (9%) I just looked at sections in Steiner. For the master planning section I had to figure out exactly what was meant by a vision and framework plan because I really didn't even know what that meant. A lot of the other master planning items I have had a little bit of experience in but I decided to focus on what I felt the test may ask about. I feel like siting things with drainage/stormwater and least amount of environmental impact in mind is a good place to start when looking at graphic questions. Focused on transportation aspects and I felt there would be some focus on bike lanes, development with public transit in mind and streetscape/urban layouts because many LAs do that type of work. I didn't make flashcards for this section and didn't memorize terms. I feel that works for Section 1. I felt it was more applying what you learn/know and also have to think what is CLARB asking for. It is a crappy section but hope this helped. Is there anything in particular you feel is a weakness?  

[Tianyi Jiang]

Hi, I failed Sec 3 the first time, but I feel if you failed the first time, big chance is that you will fail the 2nd time. 

I feel very confused about "Hot spot" question. I recall one question giving you two design and ask you which one in either of two drawings shows the best alternative? You actually could place the "X' mark anywhere you want. What is the logic and clue of this type of question?

Also, a lot of information like "put bollard on each access point?" is that correct if it is in the question?? Or should I read the question and ask myself if the answer relates to the question? Other questions Like what includes in material sample board?  Where could I know the correct answer since there are different resources out there and some are different.

One way I could think of is that try to get as many as correct answers for those questions that less vague answers, and the rest of the questions, just wish yourself good luck. 

[L.]

Read the books. 

Forget the random handouts that have been passed through numerous people. 

I just retook Section 3 for the 2nd time and passed. After just missing "passing" the first time around, I talked to people and went to any learning opportunity out there for the exams. Someone has mentioned that for section 3, a majority of the questions come straight from the books. I didn't believe it, but after taking the exam the second time, I remembered some questions and cross-referenced them in the books and sure enough, they were there, practically verbatim. 

I'm not saying this will be the case for every question. I highly recommend writing down every question or subject that gave you trouble after the exam because it will be extremely useful if you have to retake it. 

Some useful tips to remember:

-For the "choose all that apply" questions, the correct answer is never all of them or just one of them. For example, "Choose all that apply" of 4 options the answer will only be 2 or 3 of the responses and not 1 or 4. Stupid I know. That was another thing I picked up from talking with others and taking webinars. 

- use the comments section for the questions. This may work in your favor if you write out your thought-process for each question. Also, the reviewer can see your comments and it may work in your favor. 

- study the way that works best for you. I used to get intimidated by others who said they studied for 1-2 hours/day for 1-2 months before the exam. Maybe that works for you but don't let other peoples study habits impact how you learn and process information. Truthfully, I skimmed the books and maybe only crammed for the 2-3 weeks prior. Section 3 is also hard to study for since it's design; it's more about what you already know from practice/school. Read up on the subjects that you know will be tested and are unfamiliar with. In my case that was urban design, TODs and bike/trail design. 

I didn't come out of the exam feeling confident at all but don't let that stop you from preparing for the outcome of failing or passing. 

Good Luck, you all can do it! Now onto Section 4....

 

[Tia]

Where can I find Mel’s note ?

[Shawn Smyth]

I completely agree. I read and took exams and honestly felt good after leaving the exam. One or a few particular weak spots don't really stick out in my mind, so I typically just go back and study everything again. 

We'll never get the problem areas from CLARB so to me it's tough to nail down what subjects were difficult for me. It's a super bummer since I passed 1, 2 and 4 on the first go.....then this happens. Good luck on 4!!

[Elleana]

Sunny, the graphic standard is a good resource as well. I separated section 4 into several portion: 1) site engineering: be able to understand and solve the elevation(invert and out vert ) questions. this would be the most ease part if you understand the knowledge. 2) the first several page of TSS, all the plans. 3) go over all the question in the shake and baker, PPI. By the time I passed the exam, I was able to do all the questions correctly with no doubt, if there's anything you are doubt about, you go back to the related books, internet resource(i used a lot internet resouces, google them). For the other topic you mentioned, just to google and understand what they are and memorize the answers. 

Most of all: be able to answer all the practice questions and understand them. Good Luck! I failed so many times, if I could make it you could too. 

[Emily G]

The key thing is to remember in section 3 is it's not at all about aesthetics.  The hierarchy of your answer should be prioritized as follows:

1. Health Safety and Welfare
2. Compliance with Regulations or Codes
3. Sustainability 
4. Aesthetics and Good Design come in dead last! 

[B]

I would echo Emily’s list and add just one note. Aestectics (and cost goes along with this too) are not only dead last of a concern, they should only be thought of on the exam if they are asked for. They will literally state on the exam things like “which option shown will be the most cost effective” and only then would you look at it with that in mind.

[Kaitlyn Weimer]

So I have no idea if this aided me or not, but I was convinced I failed but didn't. I write in the comment section—a lot—and explain why I chose my answer and gave feedback on why I interpreted a question a certain way or if I felt the diction was unclear. I don't actually know if they took this into account or not, but I'm convinced it did. I'm an overthinker so I try to explain my rational if not 100% certain due to the phasing or language. 

[AnaBell]

Sunny do not give up...I have been there!!  for Section 3 and 4.  I know it is hard.  I have some notes for section 4 that I can share if you are interested.  It really helps to have a study group and go over questions or doubts.  Can you give me your e-mail...I can send you some info and notes.

[Shawn Smyth]

Yup I do the same exact thing. I highly doubt they look at the comments. Or maybe they do since they take so long to grade the exams since it's computer based and all......

[MoMo]

I have no idea you can put your thought process in the comment.....Never commented anything. I doubt they even look at the comments.....

[Leah]

It was confirmed via a webinar with CLARB back in March that they do read every comment.

[Jared G]

I took all the tests in the spring. As soon as I left the testing center, I starting writing down everything I was unsure about, in as much detail as possible. Basically, I made a cheat sheet of all the questions that stumped me. Given I got 630-640 scores on the ones I didn't pass, the cheat sheet gives me confidence going in that I'll hit the 650 pass mark. I used the LARE Prep exams, and the study materials in the sticky here. There was quite a lot I was not prepared for, or didn't even study at all. I think the cheat sheets are going to push me over 650 once I take it this weekend.

[C]

A couple of items I want to pick your brains on:

- For the Drag & Drop Questions, what hierarchy of issues does CLARB prefer?  Seems like a lot of the practice questions I have done have multiple scenarios that would work, but they are looking for the BEST solution.  Is it fair to assume that grading / water quality issues would take precedence over tree removal?  Would love to hear the group's opinion on this.

- Might seem basic, but does the majority of the Master Planning section relate back to planning in relation to the public sector?  As I've been studying it seems like the majority of these plans are tied into public planning as opposed to planning typical for the private sector.  What can we expect to be asked in relation to these plans?

- What is the difference between a Comprehensive Plan and a Framework Plan?  Can't seem to find a reliable answer for this.

- I've seen a lot mentioned about the Design Phases.  Do we simply need to know what happens in each phase or is it more involved than that?

Thanks, and good luck to all.

[Jared G]

First, I hate that I can't edit posts.  

From what I can recall, they don't use a hierarchy, perhaps for good reason. I'm sure some smart lawyers could make a case for each instance being more important than the other. I believe most of the solutions involved a combination of all BMPs, where you don't drain to wetlands, you preserve the trees, and you minimize grading.

I'd say the master planning is more planning related than landscape architecture. There was a lot of questions about the public planning process, seeing a project from conception through approval, to construction. I don't recall much on concept planning, bubble planning, or the actual act of making a master plan. 

Comp Plans are somewhat specific to their guidelines. A Comp Plan might have things like street sections, overlay districts, typical park designs, your downtown mainstreet streetscape, etc. A Framework Plan is more generalized and conceptual and is used to guide regional development with things like a greenbelt plan or a spatial development plan (site related bubble plan). In practice, these two terms are often used interchangeably. If you think of the two like specs,a comp plan is like a prescribed or proprietary spec and a framework plan is like a performance spec. In my notes, I have framework plan starred as a major item, where as I didn't even note down comp plans. Hope that helps.

Design Development is on-going. I don't recall any tricky questions with phasing. Most of the phasing relates to the public bidding process, not so much the design process. Questions about inventory & analysis are probably the easiest on the entire LARE. They will give you 4 examples of things, 3 of which will be inventory stuff like a mature tree on site, a stream running N/S, a 12' access road, and beautiful mountain views. Then you will have to identify which item is analysis and which is inventory. Super easy. 

[DH]

by 'LARE Review Practice Exam for section 3" are you meaning the LAREprep practice exams?  I found section 1 and 2 from LAREprep to be very good as well, I am planning on buying for Section 3 for studying (again, I did buy them for August but I never ended up studying or taking the exam, needed a break-and was too much going on at work and in my "I bought a house" life. Not a personal life LOL 

Began the studies for December Section 3, so I will be back at it once again. 

[Jael Wagoner]

Highly recommend the LARE practice tests. However, what was most helpful were the notes someone posted here last spring. Do a search of the older posts that have attachments. They are outstanding and I answered many questions correctly reviewing this outline. Also, review the TOD and use the NCDOT Cimolete Streets outline. I had a chunk of questions devoted to these two topics. Best of luck.

[Troy Anderson]

I used some great study outlines and personal notes from reading material someone posted to this group for SEC. 4 and they helped a lot, as I passed on my first try. But for Section 3, I have not found similar outlines you are referring to above. Can you post them?