e.1.2; Dreher vs. Murphy

[Deborah M]

Martinez, Deborah
English 101 Writing Composition

Section #0495

O’Connell

September 22, 2008
“Who We Really Are”

Cullen Murphy’s 2007 Are We Rome? incorrectly claims that contemporary
America is so similar to ancient Rome that we should consider the
lessons Rome offers in order to avoid a similar fate. Murphy, using
“Six Parallels” to broadly support his claim, does not pay enough
attention to the health of our culture, fails to point out how hard it
is to convince people to forgo the pursuit of luxury for a nobler
cause, and wrongly believes that middle class empowerment will help
prevent America from suffering a similar fate as Rome. A more
practical prescription for alleviating the mistakes of ancient Rome in
Modern America would be to view America realistically and not
optimistically.
In his book, Murphy does not address the fact that America has been at
war with itself culturally for decades. As Herbert E. Meyer states in
his September 8, 2008 article of the American Thinker, “So great is
this gulf between the Traditionalists and the Left-Wing Liberals - and
so irreconcilable are the differences - that our decades-long
political struggle has amounted to a kind of second Civil War. And
for several years now, it's been a stalemate. This is why so many
elections are so close, why so many Supreme Court decisions are split
5-4, and why we've been unable to act decisively on any of the issues
that confront us.” The health of our culture has been overshadowed by
today’s major issues and played almost no role in the current
presidential campaigns; however, it should not be ignored because as
Meyer points out “this election isn't really about these issues. This
election is about who we are.” Murphy also fails to offer a solution
for the difficult task of convincing people to sacrifice the pursuit
of luxury for a better America. This is why so many are opposed to
Presidential Candidate Barack Obama's Tax Plan penalizing the rich.
Indicative of such opposition is Former head of the Board of Directors
of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange and MBA Economist Jeffrey Carter,
who assails, "Who are these angel investors? They are the people that
Obama considers wealthy. The federal government’s tax code has rules
about who can be an angel investor. Not only do accredited investors
have to pass an income test, but they have to pass a wealth test too.
The angel investor is precisely the person that Obama targets through
his tax plan. His “soak the rich” philosophy will drain them of some
of the risk capital they would normally use to make investments in new
technology and ventures that could strengthen the American economy."
And what about Murphy’s view with respect to middle-class empowerment?
Geov Parrish, in his March 11, 2006 Booman Tribunes' article laments,
"The needs of large segments of America - judging from our evaporating
middle class, perhaps 80% - are usually ignored because our system
elects and reelects people who gain little by paying attention to
their needs. There are exceptions, honorable ones, to be sure, but not
enough of them to get much in the way of bills passed or public policy
changed." The fact is that middle class empowerment has been
completely unable to alter a culture of corruption in Washington
because it "elects and reelects people who gain little by paying
attention to their needs."
To understand the fallacy of Murphy’s optimism is to look at current
politics where we have a candidate running on optimism rather than
cold-hearted reality. With respect to Presidential Candidate Barack
Obama’s 50-State Strategy, Jay Newton-Small in his September 8, 2008
Time’s article points out, “Barack Obama has never been particularly
shy about his hope to reshape the political landscape of a country
deeply divided between red and blue. To much fanfare earlier this
year, his campaign launched into general-election mode pledging to
make a serious play in all 50 states. The idea was scoffed at by
Republicans as a waste of time and money, and lauded by many Democrats
as at least a shrewd way to tie up the GOP's resources”.
Unfortunately, this deeply optimistic idea resulted in the Obama
campaign “scaling back its outsized electoral ambitions” and if Obama
were to lose this election, it’s because he along with many Americans
will have mistakenly viewed America through a rose-colored lens rather
than a clear one.

[o]

Ann Margaret Z
English 101 – Section 0459
September 27, 2008
Essay 1.2
Prof. Ed O’Connell


Cullen Murphy’s 2007 Are we Rome? wrongly claims that America should
focus mainly on the government, immigrants and military. Murphy is
wrong because he forgot to concentrate on family culture and
tradition. He also overlook people’s beliefs in Christianity and
lastly Murphy’s half right with immigration but went too far on
concentrating on their culture and encouraging more immigrants to
migrate. America is doomed to fail if we don’t pay attention to the
holistic of the society and its needs to survive.

Murphy is mistaken when he forget to claim the family culture as one
vital role on a society. In his July 30, 2008 article Are we Rome?
How the U.S. can avoid its own version of the fall of the Roman
empire, Dreher, R. pointed that the loss of social cohesion and
purpose that resulted from the traditional family decline as a reason
for Rome’s collapse. Murphy didn’t pay attention on the importance of
religion, God’s influence – Christianity on American Society. People
can be convinced to sacrifice the pursuit of luxury for a higher good
– even their civilization’s survival with God’s belief of will that it
is the right thing to do. Finally, Murphy went too far on
assimilating immigration and wanting to pay more attention on others
culture for prosperity. Immigration should be part of American reform
but shouldn’t be one of our main concentration.

United States foundation is its people and government. Family values
and traditions are always important and at the top most priority. My
outlook is right because in observance to ones country, a man himself
would ignore the material pleasures if it will be for the betterment
of his family and society. A good groundwork of tradition encompasses
greed and corruption. Christianity and belief has always been a big
factor as well. Ones goodness and righteousness always originate on
what one believes. Religion has always been a huge influence to a
nation. When a person was raised with good foundation and proper
teaching of religion, wherever life leads him, his conscience will
always be there take him to the right path. Immigration in this
country had been vastly spread and yes we have to pay attention on
their culture but we also have to remember that this country is
running as one. Yes understanding ones culture would make a
difference but we have more problems to face than immigration.
Foreign institutions of this country had been a big threat to our
society. These foreign immigrations are the one that needs to be
controlled. They have owned and privatized most of our resources and
what’s left for the government to have is a handful. America should
not let these factors govern us for we’ll be prisoners of our own
country and therefore will be doomed to fail.

[o]

Kenya P
English 101
September 27, 2008
Dreher and Murphy
In Dreher’s July 30th review “How the U.S. can avoid its own version
of the fall of the Roman empire.”, he explains that Cullen Murphy’s
2007 Are we Rome? isn’t as incorrect as it is incomplete. Murphy is
wrong because there should be an extra reason added to his reasons as
to why Rome fell and why the U.S. will do the same. Dreher believes
that family values should be added to the list. Also, Murphy is too
optimistic. He needs a grip on reality and see what is actually
possible. But I don’t believe Murphy is entirely wrong. Murphy and
Dreher agree on many levels and the one point that they happen to
agree with completely is that America has the ability to choose its
own future. Dreher is more accurate than Murphy. Murphy missed one
of
the most important points, family values and leaving that out of the
issues needed to be fixed to save America may have terrible effects.
Also, he is thinking too optimistically about the corruption and fall
of the U.S. Murphy didn’t see all of the issues in his theories but
he does make some very good arguments. I, and Dreher, agree that
there
is the possibility to change. That there is hope.
Dreher claims that Murphy leaves out a very important issue, family
values. Murphy has a list of what he thinks Is wrong with the U.S.
and
what we need to fix: the overwhelming importance of the capital city,
too much burdens on the military, a inclination toward private study
of public goods, a self-centeredness that everyone shares, faulty
borders, and difficulty that is becoming out of control. The one that
is missing is family values. How people act in their families is how
they are going to act in their everyday lives, so it makes sense that
if they behave responsibly and intelligently in their family lives,
and then they will act that way always. Right now there are a lot of
people acting badly in or with their families, so if we can fix that
then they will act better as a person as well. The other opinion of
Dreher is that Murphy was being too optimistic. The U.S. is heading
for its demise yet he is seeing the best of what can happen. What he
needs to do is look at what is the worst that can happen so we know
what is more likely to happen. If we know the worst, then we will be
able to try our hardest to prevent it. But by being optimistic, he’s
not challenging America to make great permanent changes. Although
there are just several issues that Dreher and I have with Murphy’s
book, we all agree on one thing, that if we don’t act quickly and
steadily, we will fall like the roman empire. By fixing those several
issues that we have, we can make America a better place for everyone
and we can turn away from the corruption that is in our near future.
I believe in what Dreher says, but that there should be something
that
should also be fixed. Our education system is very much damaged. If
we
are not able to fix the education system then the citizens of our
future will be ill educated and will be corrupted from infancy
because
of their deprived education. For the future of America we need well
educated people who can make good decisions that will affect us all
positively, but education is essential. By fixing the many things
wrong with America we can better it and make sure that there is a
future to be had with it. Also, the over whelming importance of the
capital city doesn’t need to be changed. In Rome that might have been
an issue, but in the U.S. it really isn’t. We have may popular
important cities but none are so overly important that it over
shadows
everything else. We have important cities because they provide us
with
important materials. Like New York and Los Angeles, they are
considered very important because they supply entertainment like
fashion and actors and actresses that are important to modern day
America. But washing ton DC, the capital of America, is important
because it is the place that our history revolves around. We, the
U.S., have many places we would consider capital cities and they are
all important for their own special reasons but to change them or to
try and lower the importance of them is obscene because it’s our
country and our needs, so we should keep them the way they are.

[o]

Dong Chul O
Eng.101, Sec. #0495
September 27th, 2008
In his Dallas Morning News July 29, 2007 article, “Are We
Rome,: How
the U.S. can avoid its own version of the fall of the Roman empire,”
Rod Dreher comments on Cullen Murphy’s book “Are We Rome?: The Fall
of
an Empire and the Fate of America.” Unlike Victor Davis Hanson, who
criticizes opposes Murphy’s ideas practically in every way, Dreher is
more open to Murphy’s ideas. However, Dreher still object to some of
Murphy’s ideas, stating that though Murphy’s ideas are not exactly
wrong, but they are insufficient to lead to the fall of U.S. In
Dreher’s article on Murphy’s book, the two authors are wrong in their
own ways.
According to Dreher, Murphy insists that America is a middle-class
democracy, not an aristocracy with sharp, cruel gaps between the
classes like Rome. Murphy also contends that if Americans recommit
themselves to good government, focus more on assimilating new
immigrants, and quit demanding armed forces to do more than they are
capable of, and start to pay more attentions to other cultures,
America will not fall as Rome did. (Para. 11) Although Murphy is
right
in most ways here, Murphy is overoptimistic about U.S. being a
middle-
class democracy, as he underestimated the coming of financial crisis
that was already on its way by the time the book was published.
Currently, America is facing the worst financial crisis since the
Great Depression in 1930s, as legendary financial corporations like
Lehman Brothers Holding Inc or Merrill Lynch have gone bankrupt or
been sold to other companies in ridiculous price of 2 dollar. Other
financial corporations such as AIG are following similar paths. Now,
U.S. Government is in travail to pass a 700 billion dollar to bail
out
those financial corporations in crisis. The financial crisis, which
has become apparent since the subprime mortgage crisis, is
demolishing
what Murphy pointed out as America’s stronghold – the middle-class.
According to September 24, 2008 article on The Atlanta Journal-
Constitution by Kevin Duffy, more middle-class Americans are
suffering
financial pain and reaching out for help. The article shows a danger
the middle-class of America is facing. “Rising unemployment, the
continuing mortgage and credit crisis, and rising food and fuel costs
are causing people with good incomes to seek help paying their debt.
People with middle-class incomes are finding it more and more
difficult to meet their financial obligations. Pay as you go is a
rude
awakening.” Add to the danger, America’s unique way of living –
valuing spending higher than saving – has resulted in enormous
national debt of 9 trillion dollar. In “I.O.U.S.A,” a documentary
film
that warns about America’s fiscal conditions, show this in
frightening
manner. Even the film’s trailer sufficiently shows a crisis America
is
facing. “We now burrowing 22 cents of every dollar that we are
spending. And you have seen nothing yet.” “We are burrowing money and
passing that bill to our grandchildren.” With such a huge national
debt crushing down on every live of America, Murphy’s hope for
America
– the middle class is at risks of losing their firm ground, and
furthermore, putting America at risks. The middle-class is a
foundation for a nation to sustain itself. Unfortunately, on the
contrary to Murphy’s hope, the middle-class of America is falling
down, and it would someday hit back America in catastrophic scale.
For Murphy’s above idea, Dreher argues that though it is correct, it
is not entirely so, as Murphy dose not pay enough attention to the
health of America’s culture. (Para 12) Dreher here emphasizes the
importance of family values above the health of the middle-class.
Dreher provides a good point in this, as he complements what Murphy
misses – focusing on material values over family values. Family is
the
basis for every class, whether one is in the high-class or the
middle-
class. And without family, no class can exist, and furthermore, no
nation can exist. Divorce rate in America is the highest in the West,
perhaps in the world, and it has aroused the collapse of the nation’s
most fundamental bases – family and its values. Although children
living with single parent have become more common these days in
America, it is still affecting many children in negative ways, which
results in affecting society itself as a whole. In Rome, the loss of

social cohesion and purpose that resulted from the traditional

family’s decline was a reason of collapse, and likewise in America,
(though the collapse of family values comes in somewhat different
ways
– incest and non-marriage customs were common in the late Rome) would
face the similar consequence when family values keep on collapsing.
On the other hand, Dreher emphasizes that one of ways for America to
avoid the fall Rome faces is Americans to be faithful, conservative
Christian, like Benedictine, as it was the way of Christianity that
gave the rebirth to a new civilization after the fall of Rome. This
idea is clearly wrong, and at the same time, dangerous, as
Christianity is a typical monotheistic religion that does not admit
other religions and cultures. It believes only its own doctrines, and
ignores or belittles others’. Although it is quite the same in other
monotheistic religions such as Judaism and Islam, Christianity
conceals its arrogance and contradiction with doctrines like equality
and peace for all mankind that provide hopes to people. Due to
Christianity’s emphases on the one and only God and its doctrines,
Christianity has brought more conflicts than before. From the holy
war
by Crusade in the Middle Ages, which concealed Europe and the
Vatican’s greed to wrest territory from Islam and possess their
fortune with blindfolded belief of recovering the Holy Land and
colonization of Africa, Asia and South America by the West before the
World War Ⅱ in the name of enlightenment and propagation of God’s
words, to recent America’s invasion on the Middle East for control of
gas. Christianity has, paradoxically, shed more blood and caused more
sufferings than any other religions in our history. Such a paradox
can
be clearly seen in contemporary America. Although the First Amendment
of the U.S. Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, U.S.
President and testifiers in the court of law have to vow to the
Bible.
At the same time, Americans are reluctant to admit other religions,
or
furthermore criticize other religions apart from Christianity as
false
religions. (As we have witnessed from Tom Cruise’s case) Strong,
radical belief on Christianity of America has already isolated
America
from the rest of the world. It is no other than the religion’s
ignorance on ideas of other cultures and religions, in detail, the
current U.S. Administration’s attitudes and belief towards
Christianity that has reinforced the isolation. It is a very narrow
view of Dreher to think that being faithful and conservative
Christian
will help America to solve many problems America is facing, as it is
clear that the idea will further isolate America, and considering the
fact that Dreher agrees with Murphy’s ideas that America should start
to pay more attentions to other cultures, Dreher’s such an idea is
clearly paradoxical, as Christianity is reluctant to open itself to
others cultures. (Although Christianity is good in absorbing others’
cultures and making them as its own, such as Christmas tree, Easter
egg, etc.). Though not mentioned in Are We Rome?: The Fall of an
Empire and the Fate of America,” some believe it was Christianity
that
had caused the decadence of Rome. Before Christianity had become the
state religion of Rome, Rome acknowledged and approved many other
ethnics’ religions and cultures, allowing Rome to win its occupied
territories’ favors. However, as Christianity had been established as
the state religion, Rome started to ignore other ethnics’ religions
and cultures, which led to heavy resistance from its territories, and
later to the fall of the empire. Dreher or Murphy should keep this in
mind as well as other reasons of Rome’s decadence. Christianity might
be a great religion as itself, but if it is interpreted wrongly or
conspire with the power, it could do more harm than good.
Murphy and Dreher all make good points in analyzing America’s
issues
in comparison to Rome. However, Murphy is overoptimistic in judging
America is a middle-class society with smaller gaps between classes
than Rome. However, signs of the middle-class’ collapse has been
shown
in many aspect for the last few decades, and it has been speeded up
recently due to financial and credit crisis. It is clearly a huge
mistake Murphy’s brilliant book ignores. Dreher’s emphasis on family
values is perhaps more correct in that aspect, as the collapse of
family values could lead to the collapse of the nation’s basis.
However, Dreher’s argument that Americans should be faithful,
conservative Christian has a huge potential danger, as we have seen
it
Rome’s history and the history after the fall of Rome, Christianity’s
arrogance and ignorance on others’ beliefs and ideas could bring more
conflicts to the world, and furthermore, isolation of America.
Religion could, undoubtedly help mankind in many ways, but its
influences should be limited to individual level. When a religion,
any
religion in the world, reaches its influences in societal or national
level, it is no longer a religion but a means for powers. In our
history, Christianity has proven how danger it is for a religion to
conspire with the power. That’s why Dreher’s emphasis on Americans,
furthermore, America nation itself being faithful, conservative
Christian is naïve and narrow-minded idea. Changes Murphy says can be
done without any religion being involved. The best option to take is
stay as far as possible from religion. Having a religion –
particularly Christianity in America’s case will not do any good in
winning overseas’ favors.

[o]

Angelica J
Ed O’ Connell
English 101
Sect# 0459
September 26, 2008
Murphy V Dreher
In his Dallas Morning News July 30,2007 article Are we Rome? How the
U.S. can avoid its own version of the fall of the Roman Empire, Rod
Dreher mentions that family values, immigration, and corruption, can
ruin America. Murphy also claims that civic virtue, and immigration,
problems in Rome, will also and have already problems for the United
States. Murphy mentions that the United States as well as the Western
Roman Empire in the fifth century will decade or if the Rome fate can
be avoided the United States will acquired a triumph. What made Rome
so powerful was corruption which was a leading dissolution. Murphy
has
correctly challenged the United States not to repeat the same mistake
as Rome so the victory will be won.
According to Dreher American would possibly become like the Rome’s
fate, grasping bureaucrats. There several crucial differences between
the United States and Rome. One of the crucial between the United
States was when Murphy argues that America will be able to have power
to control their fate. Stopping the armed forces can lead the United
States were Rome fail. Murphy mentions us that America parallels
Rome’s phase according to broad ways. The broad ways are the
importance of the capital city, military unsuited for imperial
responsibilities, tendency toward private exploitation of public
goods, self centeredness that deforms attitudes toward and
perceptions
of the world, and porous borders complexity risks becoming
unmanageable.
Though the most important fact claim by Murphy was the fact that we
are from a middle class sort of democratic not aristocracy that is
why
Americans had a greater control of their fate. Also Murphy mention us
that if we recommit ourselves to a good government intensely on
assimilating new immigrants. This is a good strategy but Murphy is
ignoring the health of the culture. Murphy identifies as a critical
ordered to commonly shared commitment to remissive moral norms, which
Americans individualism is undetermined. Man used to please himself
by
materially ignoring the betterment and society. Both gender decided
that survival of the moral community was impossible under the old
order therefore they pioneered the nucleus of a new one. There on
they
became monks and nuns followers who spread throughout the European of
the Dark ages.

[o]

Yolanda D
English 101, Section 0459
O’Connell
September 26, 2008
E1.2
Draft
Dreher v Murhy
Dreher R, National review “Are we Rome” 2007, Jul. 30, how the U.S.
can avoid its own version of the fall of the Roman empire. Dallas
Morning News.
Dreher, strongly suggests, that Murphy pays more attention on the
health of our culture, family and assimilating new immigrants. Dreher
agrees but, he suggests that change starts in the home and commitment
to remissive moral norms, on which contemporary American
individualism
seem to ignore. Dreher has good intentions, towards America’s future,
although Murphy’s “Are we Rome” has basically, comparisons, of past
history incidents, that America has, and is experiencing right now.
I for one agree with Dreher, commitment does start at home; people do
need a good foundation and some kind of direction. Although I do
disagree with Dreher, on how he suggests that is the reason Rome
collapsed. Second Dreher, talks about the “bread and circuses”
regime,
and is wrongly accusing, Roman citizens of being materialistic. If
the
citizens of Rome, did nothing else but work for their country’s
government, they might as well be a communists country. It was basic
entertainment, I do agree, that it was barbaric, but they did not
have
the technology we have today, as a source of entertainment. Last
Dreher, brings up the point that Rome, gave up on commitment and
moral
norms, but how the strong believe in God, remains or an
“authoritative
ideal” just maybe people can be convinced to sacrifice luxury, for a
successful future and strong survival of civilization.
Murphy’s “Are we Rome” book continues to provide comparisons, as well
as educating the reader on Roman history. Murphy talks about how Rome
and America function on the inside and outside, point out religion,
politics, but does not refer it as how Dreher did, in his article.
Murphy simple lays out comparisons such, military status, corruption,
borders, and how the country was overwhelming in size.
For instance Murphy discuses our Nation’s capital, “Washington”, the
power it represents, by its simple structure and icon of power. That
is mainly visual. Next Murphy discusses the military comparison with
Rome and America, in suggesting that both countries have come to a
shortage in manpower, and people, to maintain their military. I agree
with Murphy, because Rome and America in different times have
resourced to recruiting wherever they can. Such the barbarians, with
Rome, later loyalty became an issue, and economical later dismantled
the Roman military. Which brings Rome to the points Murphy makes of
cultural and social being the two large common problems, Third Murphy
discusses privatization which is often fallowed by corruption, such
an old familiar word, according to Murphy Rome had trouble
maintaining
a distinction between public and private responsibilities as well as
resources. I agree these are always hard to settle on, because there
is positive as well as a downside to the outcome, depending on the
issue. America has released many of his private facilities, yes, so
what! Murphy points out it may hurt us in the long run, I disagree
taxes are being paid; the government is making money either way, let
it be.
Dreher suggests that Murphy does not pay enough attention to the
health of our culture. Yes commitment does start at home, as well as
formality. Dreher writes about the “bread and circuses” regime, how
common man satisfied himself with material pleasures. And mentions
how
if men did not lose believe in God or an authoritative ideal, maybe
Rome could save their civilization. And what is all comes about is
that Dreher has a point on health and culture, but civilization their
civilization did not die. Rome just simply lost control and power of
their country, but what would have been more useful would have been
tighter control with the military, slow the pace when conquering
other
lands. Dreher and Murphy claim that borders control is a way of
keeping terrorist controlled, they are correct to some degree. If
there is a way there is a will, unwanted foreigners will get across
if
they try hard enough, perfect example the recent 911 attack on
American. The terrorist supposedly were trained in America, studied
here in America. My point is who we can trust when it’s a bias
decision, in my opinion.
Murphy claims that our nation’s Capitol “Washington D.C.” is mainly
symbolic, and represents power. I agree, but there is also history,
our founding father acknowledging Christianity as Americans.
Murphy states that privatization, will have consequences over
decades
or centuries. And states that it acted as big portion of what went
wrong with Rome. I disagree, because by allowing private parties to
manage public organizations, it might help our government free up to
focus on other areas this country need improvement on. Taxes will
still be paid for those public now private organizations, so the
government will still benefit anyways.
Believing in God, the higher being is both authors points as well as
commitment, which start at home, and not forgetting moral norms.
(Dreher, R. 2007, July 30) because a basic, solid foundation will
lead
to a concrete future.