User Interface Design

[micah...@gmail.com]

Hello everyone. I am a student of Lehigh University and am taking a
User Interfaces Techniques course. For our current project we've been
asked to identify an open source project and work to improve the
functionality and usability of its interface. I have been using
Labyrinth on and off for a while, and find concept-mapping to be
extremely helpful. I have very little experience with Python, but
would love to learn.

If you are interested in having me work with you, I would love to chat
with both users and developers about what can be made better. Hope to
hear from you soon.

Warm regards,
Micah

[Matthias Vogelgesang]

Hi,

It's always nice to see someone with a usability/UI background, just
because I think Labyrinth lacks a consistent UI. So, you are free to
post any suggestions or code patches on this mailing list, which of
course is the main communication channel for Labyrinth development.

--
Matthias Vogelgesang
Public-Key: http://tinyurl.com/2qcydl

[Micah]

Hey.

Thanks for the welcome. I will be working with a group of two other
students to evaluate and update the UI. We are interested in
conducting informal interviews with users and developers. If you have
the time to talk to us about Labyrinth, please let me know.

I will keep everyone posted on our progress.

Micah

On Nov 1, 8:48 pm, "Matthias Vogelgesang"
<matthias.vogelges...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,

[Martin Schaaf]

Hello Micah,

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:19:56 -0700 (PDT)
micah.frost wrote:

> If you are interested in having me work with you, I would love to chat
> with both users and developers about what can be made better. Hope to
> hear from you soon.

nice to here this. Like Matthias said before please post suggestions to this list.
Thank you.

Bye,
martin.

[Micah]

Our group would like to ask the developers to take part in an informal
interview, perhaps over IRC? I am not sure what time zones we are
working with, but if it can be conducted this coming week, that would
be best. Hope to hear from you soon.

Micah

>  signature.asc
> < 1KViewDownload

[Matthias Vogelgesang]

Hi,

On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 19:41, Micah <micah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Our group would like to ask the developers to take part in an informal
> interview, perhaps over IRC? I am not sure what time zones we are
> working with, but if it can be conducted this coming week, that would
> be best. Hope to hear from you soon.
>

GMT+1 here.

[Martin Schaaf]

On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 10:41:48 -0800 (PST)
Micah Micah wrote:

> Our group would like to ask the developers to take part in an informal
> interview, perhaps over IRC? I am not sure what time zones we are
> working with, but if it can be conducted this coming week, that would
> be best. Hope to hear from you soon.

GMT+1 too

[Micah]

Are either or both of you available tomorrow at 6pm GMT (1pm here EST,
7pm there?) for an hour or so?

Micah

>  signature.asc
> < 1KViewDownload

[Matthias Vogelgesang]

Hi,

On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 23:40, Micah <micah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Are either or both of you available tomorrow at 6pm GMT (1pm here EST,
> 7pm there?) for an hour or so?
>

I am available, if you could tell us the IRC channel and server.

[Micah]

The old site says :"We can also (sometimes) be found on IRC on
irc.gimp.org, in #labyrinth." I figure we could just use that. If you
have another preference, just let me know.

Micah

On Nov 9, 5:56 pm, "Matthias Vogelgesang"
<matthias.vogelges...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,

[mas...@ma-scha.de]

On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 15:00:07 -0800 (PST)
Micah Micah wrote:

> The old site says :"We can also (sometimes) be found on IRC on
> irc.gimp.org, in #labyrinth." I figure we could just use that.

6pm GMT is ok for me. Lets try this channel.
But it is possible that I am not reachable because I have problems with my network connection and to fix it is out of my sphere of influence.

Bye,
martin.

[Micah]

As requested, here is a log of the discussion.

----
<micah> hello
<matze> hi
<Bryan> hey
<micah> Matthias, this is one of my partners, Bryan.. the other is on
his way
<matze> alright
<micah> any word on Martin?
<matze> hmm, he said he would be here at 6pm
jmz209 has joined #labyrinth
<micah> and that's Jon, the other partner
<matze> ok :)
<jmz209> hello everyone
<matze> hi Jon
<micah> should we wait a bit more then?
<micah> maybe brief introductions while we wait..
<matze> yes, we can give him another 5 minutes
<micah> alright
<micah> so where are you from Matthias
<matze> I am from Karlsruhe, Germany
<micah> nice; I'm from NY originally, but studying in Pennsylvania
<matze> computer science I suppose?
<micah> actually computer engineering, so hardware as well
<jmz209> I'm studying here in Pennsylvania, US as well, though I'm
also from here
<jmz209> Computer Science and Business major here, though I'm mostly
focuesed on software development
<matze> I see
<micah> do you happen to know Martin personally, or just through
labyrinth
<matze> just through labyrinth
<matze> as I remember he became maintainer after don
<matze> and two weeks later I started sending in some patches
<micah> has don moved on then?
<matze> I don't really know
<micah> hmm, alright
<matze> he is maintainer of yelp, the GNOME browser and seemed to be
overloaded by work
<matze> wrong window
<micah> heh
<micah> well, we have some questions about where labyrinth is coming
from, and where you think it should go
<matze> ok
<matze> any specific ones?
<micah> sure
<micah> the most pressing being..
<micah> it seems like labyrinth wants to behave like tomboy
<micah> in the sense that it runs in the tray and can be accessed
quickly for short periods of time
<matze> that's right
<micah> can you explain the advantage you see with that model
<matze> well, you already said it. making a mind map should take very
minimal time
<matze> the problem is, many people see labyrinth as tomboy-visualized
<micah> hmm
<matze> it is not. in fact it accompanies tomboy, and tomboy
integration is high on the todo-list
<micah> i agree that making a map should be quick and easy, but I'm
not sure I see the value in the tomboy autosave model
<micah> ok
<matze> why not?
<matze> it's quite handy
<micah> tomboy is yes, because its all text.. sort of like jotting
down on paper
<matze> and it is centered on content not a document name someone has
to come up with
<micah> and maybe thats what labyrinth should be like
<micah> but it gets awkward when you want to share maps
<matze> that is true
<matze> and that was one of my first patches: exporting maps
<micah> and i find that may very well be the advantage to a visual map
over text
<matze> so, what would you propose?
<micah> i'm playing devils advocate here, because i do think there is
a ton of value in the tomboy model
<micah> which can be awkward for new users
<matze> that is true
mascha has joined #labyrinth
<micah> martin?
<mascha> yes. hello all
<matze> hi
<micah> hi
<jmz209> hello
<micah> matze, the only other argument i see against running it as an
applet would be frequency of use
<micah> i love making mind maps, but i don't know if I'd want to leave
it running in the background all the time
<matze> actually labyrinth is not an applet
<matze> it is supposed to become one
<matze> but it isn't
<micah> right
<micah> so if it becomes one, do you see users starting it with their
gnome session?
<mascha1> I start it with my session.
<matze> tough question
<micah> how often do you create new maps mascha1
<mascha1> a minimum of one per month
<micah> so does that warrant running it in the tray?
<micah> and again, let me just say that I'm not against running it as
an applet, i just think we need to make sure why it should be an
applet
<mascha1> Possibly not. Application starting is now easier with tools
like gnome-do.
<micah> yea, i use gnome-do; it's great
<mascha1> A integration would make the tray unnecessary.
<micah> integration with tomboy?
<mascha1> No integration with gnome-do. How should a tomboy
integration look like?
<micah> not sure, but users have brought it up on the issues page
<matze> yes
<matze> http://code.google.com/p/labyrinth/issues/detail?id=77
<matze> that one struck my mind
<micah> yeah, i was looking for that
<micah> i have that mockup on my desktop actually
<mascha1> But the problem is that tomboy is only text no graphic.
<micah> i suppose integration would be limited to opening tomboy notes
from thoughts, or thoughts from tomboy notes
<mascha1> I do not see the benefits for me. For me would a integration
with a desktop search engine better. Because I search with this and
open the found map over this application.
<mascha1> Like you can do with gnome-do.
<micah> right
<micah> i was just going to say that
<Bryan> well changing it from an applet would also solve the window
closing problem where closing the loader closes the map.
<micah> you both know the code much better than we do; how hard would
it be to remove the initial window and instead make a tray applet?
<micah> and perhaps provide a search window that lets you filter
through your maps?
<mascha1> The tray already exists.
<matze> yes some started working on it
<micah> yeah, i saw that switch in the svn
<mascha1> The source code needs imho a big refactoring (rewrite).
<matze> indeed ;)
<micah> yeah, we've had trouble walking through it
<micah> but i don't know how committed you guys are for that kind of
time
<matze> well, at the moment I don't have that much time, maybe some
hours per week
<mascha> But the search would be easy because its only text files
(xml).
<mascha> @micah. What version of labyrinth do you use?
<micah> for a while i used .4, but i've been playing with the latest
svn
<micah> so the labyrinth should definitely head in the applet
direction then
<matze> I don't really know
<mascha> do you mean starting as applet by default?
<micah> right
<micah> would allow for better desktop integration, and moves beyond
the open / save paradigm
<matze> well there is no real open/save paradigm now too
<micah> there is for most desktop apps.. it seem like labyrinth is in
a funny position between a regular application, and an applet like
tomboy
<matze> yes
<mascha> I am not sure because I startet working on labyrinth to fix
bugs I had during use and I am done for now. If I can motivate myself
to work on labyrinth any further then yes this would be a goal.
<micah> and based on what i've heard, it seems like moving towards an
applet is more in line with the original vision
<micah> its too bad don isn't hear to tell us his original intentions
<mascha> But a vision can change if the people behind the project
change. ;-)
<matze> he noticed some of his goals in a text file
<micah> which file?
<matze> http://code.google.com/p/labyrinth/source/browse/trunk/doc/TheFuture
<matze> this one
<mascha> In the last years my desktop usage changed very much to use
the keyboard only and use gnome-do .
<mascha> So for me the application goes in the direction for a better
keyboard usage and gnome-do application.
<matze> too bad I regularly change computers where I can't install
custom applications
<matze> keyboard is still a problem as well as a11y... :(
<micah> okay
<micah> we'll go over TheFuture document later as a group
<micah> does labyrinth run on windows?
<matze> yes, but I never verified it
<micah> do either of you have thoughts on that?
<mascha> Yes I thing so.
<matze> what thoughts?
<mascha> No because I do not use windows.
<micah> does providing that support add any clutter to the code?
<matze> a little bit
<mascha> Yes.
<matze> there are if platform == ... and so on
<mascha> One thing is gconf.
<Bryan> i wiill be back in about 5 min need to change rooms.
<mascha> We use it for storage of config values.
<micah> it seems to us that windows has its share of mind mapping
tools, and trying to stretch labyrinth to be cross platform isn't
worth it
<mascha> gtk is natively available for a lot of platforms (including
windows) python too
<matze> most mind mapping applications I encountered so far are too
heavy weight for my mind. so I think a lean app like labyrinth fits
windows too
<micah> would it require extra support to run in the windows tray as
opposed to the gnome?
<matze> I don't know
<mascha1> So we are cross platform like we can. But I anything about
why gconf aren't working there.
<mascha1> But I didn't know anything about why gconf aren't working
there.
<mascha1> We need more input from windows users.
<micah> it seems to me that a windows port should come after a
polished product
<micah> the fact is, the Gnome desktop needs this, not windows
<micah> gnome users only real alternative seems to be freemind
<jmz209> unfortunately I have to bail out for now, but thank you all
for your time, and I left my additional thoughts with Micah
<micah> which is Java i believe
<micah> take care jmz209
jmz209 has quit
<micah> well that side, we should discuss some other things
<micah> one of the things that has come up on the issues page that we
feel labyrinth lacks is auto alignment of thoughts
<micah> which harkins back to what mascha1 said about using a keyboard
instead of a mouse
<mascha1> what mean harkins?
<matze> this shouldn't be a big deal imho
<micah> gets back to
<micah> i see you've added auto alignment options
<micah> manual*
<matze> no that's manual alignment
<micah> sorry
<micah> by definition, a mind map is different from a concept map by
the fact that it maintains a single root node
<matze> yes
<micah> we think that as you add thoughts, labyrinth should space out
thoughts to make the map neat without user intervention
<micah> how valuable is being able to freely place nodes?
<matze> I don't want to be restricted by a program
<matze> we thought about adding two modes: auto-layout and free layout
<micah> yeah
<micah> how about alternative views?
<micah> for auto formatting
<matze> which should look like?
<micah> a few examples would be..
<micah> root node in the center, children on the left and right only
<micah> root at the top, children below
<matze> hmm ok
<micah> or root on the bottom, children above, like a tree
<micah> when you say you don't want to be restricted by the program..
would you feel restricted if you could change the order after
labyrinth placed the node?
<matze> I don't really know
<matze> the problem is, that I don't restrict myself on paper too
<matze> I just draw the map and fill out spaces
<micah> right
<mascha> this sounds good to me
<micah> but if labyrinth placed them so it was easiest to read, you
wouldn't spend time placing them
<micah> which makes for faster map creation
<matze> yes thats right
<micah> which justifies labyrinth as an applet
<micah> a quick to use program
<matze> sorry but I have to leave now
<micah> alright, that's fine
<micah> thank you so much
<matze> if you could send the log to the list, it would be great
<micah> we'll keep in touch as we go
<micah> surely
<matze> ok, thanks
<matze> see you
<micah> alright, thanks again
matze has quit
<micah> alright, thanks mascha - we'll keep in touch
<mascha> thank you
<mascha> bye
<micah> see you later
----