Those Enterprise shuttle vans...
Stan The Man
of people going to a common area. The rates seem low, but the vans are only
capable of seating a dozen passengers.
Can this be scaled up? What's the largest vehicle someone can drive with
just a standard drivers license? In my town, we have a bunch of "buses" -
well they call them buses, but they're actually converted vans. They seat
about 24 people plus standing room. Do you need a special license to drive
one of these? Could someone like Enterprise make them available to the
general public?
What's my point?
Well, the current depression causing many local transit agencies to cut back
greatly on service. Can something like Enterprise's service fill in the gap
until the economy improves?
cph
> I see them everywhere "Fly to work"... Enterprise rents out vans to groups
> of people going to a common area. The rates seem low, but the vans are only
> capable of seating a dozen passengers.
>
> Can this be scaled up? What's the largest vehicle someone can drive with
> just a standard drivers license?
I think the upper limit is about 15 people or so. The number can be
found in
the California DMV guide (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl600.pdf), but
my
internet is slow right now....
> In my town, we have a bunch of "buses" -
> well they call them buses, but they're actually converted vans. They seat
> about 24 people plus standing room. Do you need a special license to drive
> one of these?
Those would need at least a Class "B" license. (Regular car driver
license is
class "C"). There are a number of other requirements for professional
drivers
(i.e. not just carpoolers). See http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/cdl_htm/toc.htm
> Well, the current depression causing many local transit agencies to cut back
> greatly on service. Can something like Enterprise's service fill in the gap
> until the economy improves?
To some extent. Metro (in LA) was advocating vanpools to replace an
express bus
route (Santa Clarita-Van Nuys) that was being canceled because of low
ridership...
As for replacing regular route bus service, not likely.
cph
> On Sep 17, 9:42 am, "Stan The Man" <stanthema...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[...] Enterprise carpool vans
> > Well, the current depression causing many local transit agencies to cut back
> > greatly on service. Can something like Enterprise's service fill in the gap
> > until the economy improves?
>
> To some extent. Metro (in LA) was advocating vanpools to replace an
> express bus
> route (Santa Clarita-Van Nuys) that was being canceled because of low
> ridership...
>
> As for replacing regular route bus service, not likely.
Ah, I just notice that ths was crossposted to a couple of non-
California groups.
Those of you in other states will have to check with their own DMV,
but the rules
will probably be similar.
As for vans in local transit service....there are the "Dollar Vans" in
New York,
using similar equipment. But those tend to operate in heavily transit-
dependent
places. (Many also operate outside the law).
Bolwerk
> I see them everywhere "Fly to work"... Enterprise rents out vans to
> groups of people going to a common area. The rates seem low, but the
> vans are only capable of seating a dozen passengers.
>
> Can this be scaled up? What's the largest vehicle someone can drive with
> just a standard drivers license? In my town, we have a bunch of "buses"
> - well they call them buses, but they're actually converted vans. They
> seat about 24 people plus standing room. Do you need a special license
> to drive one of these? Could someone like Enterprise make them available
> to the general public?
You probably need a special license to be in the business of
transporting passengers (even cabs need hack licenses), but practically
speaking you can drive a big-ass moving truck with a standard license.
You could certainly carpool legally with a large vehicle.
> What's my point?
>
> Well, the current depression causing many local transit agencies to cut
> back greatly on service. Can something like Enterprise's service fill in
> the gap until the economy improves?
It does in places like Queens. They're called dollar vans (I doubt they
only cost a dollar anymore), but they probably typically seat about 6-8
people.
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
> Well, the current depression causing many local transit agencies to cut back
> greatly on service. Can something like Enterprise's service fill in the gap
> until the economy improves?
Enterprise has an arrangement with Metro North:
http://www.mta.info/mnr/html/enterprise.htm
Don Freeman
as long as you don't mind that temporary tingling in your extremities.
--
-Don
www.cosmoslair.com
Stephen Sprunk
> I see them everywhere "Fly to work"... Enterprise rents out vans to
> groups of people going to a common area. The rates seem low, but the
> vans are only capable of seating a dozen passengers.
>
> Can this be scaled up? What's the largest vehicle someone can drive with
> just a standard drivers license? In my town, we have a bunch of "buses"
> - well they call them buses, but they're actually converted vans. They
> seat about 24 people plus standing room. Do you need a special license
> to drive one of these? Could someone like Enterprise make them available
> to the general public?
If a vehicle has a wheelbase over a certain length or has air brakes,
it's generally going to require a class B (think "Bus") license, which
means it can't be rented to the "general public"; the vast majority of
people only have a class C (think "Car") license.
There's also an economic problem. Buses are expensive, specialized
equipment; rental agencies aren't going to have them lying around, and
leasing (not renting) one will most likely require a long-term contract,
i.e. measured in months to years, and expensive insurance. How many
groups of unrelated people are going to be willing to sign up for that
-- especially since they'd be responsible for the full payment if
some/most of the other people drop out?
Due to these sorts of issues, some TAs will handle all of the logistics
of buying/leasing, maintaining, insuring, fueling, etc. shuttle buses
and providing drivers for them. There are also plenty of private
companies that will do the same, though probably at higher rates. The
problem is that such services are generally only open to businesses
(e.g. employer shuttles); they're not so willing to contract with a
group of individuals because they know it'll be a nightmare trying to
collect the money for it.
> What's my point?
>
> Well, the current depression causing many local transit agencies to cut
> back greatly on service. Can something like Enterprise's service fill in
> the gap until the economy improves?
AFAIK, Enterprise offers no service other than vehicle rental, which
many companies do every day all over the country.
The legal sticking points with carpooling in a van/bus are:
1. Is the driver paid, or is he/she a carpooler? If the former, they
will need to have a commercial driver's license; they might even for the
latter in some states.
2. Does the vehicle to be used require more than a standard class C
license? If so, the driver(s) will need to get the appropriate license
class.
More to the point, will the passengers be willing to pay the rate to
rent the vehicle, the gas, and (if applicable) the driver's wages?
Given that such an amount will almost certainly be higher than the fare
for a transit bus, I doubt it.
For a comparison, the "shared ride" services here (using a van that
requires a class C license and holds 8, including driver) charge about
$25 for a one-way trip that will cost me $1.50 on transit. That's okay
when going to/from the airport now and then given the time saved, but
I'd never pay anything near that for a twice-daily trip; many people
don't even _make_ that much per day.
S
--
Stephen Sprunk "Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart people surround themselves with
K5SSS smart people who disagree with them." --Isaac Jaffe
Patrick Scheible
> I prefer using the Enterprise teleporter instead, a lot faster. That is,
> as long as you don't mind that temporary tingling in your extremities.
I believe you'll find that the Enterprise has transporters, not
teleporters.
Why, yes, I did memorize the original Star Trek word for word, why do
you ask...
-- Patrick
Don Freeman
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
Palo Alto, but that group contracted for a commercial bus and driver.
IIRC, you could sign up for weekly or monthly rates, or actually just
pay a daily fare.
73, doug
Merritt Mullen
<3dcbb53f-b02a-483f...@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
cph <cph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Can this be scaled up? What's the largest vehicle someone can drive with
> > just a standard drivers license?
>
> I think the upper limit is about 15 people or so. The number can be
> found in
> the California DMV guide (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl600.pdf), but
> my
> internet is slow right now....
According to that DMV document, in California, with a Class "C" (basic)
license, among other things, you can drive:
- a vanpool vehicle, designed to
carry more than 10 but no more
than 15 persons including the
driver. The driver must have
a valid medical certification
on file with DMV and carry a
valid medical card. The driver
must also have a signed certification
stating he/she has
not been convicted of reckless
driving, drunk driving, or hitand-
run in the last five years.
When I lived in Virginia, they had similar rules, and van pools were
very popular between the suburbs and DC. Also, privately operated
commercial commuter buses.
Merritt
Stan The Man
"Merritt Mullen" <mmull...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:mmullen8014-0729...@netnews.asp.att.net...
> Also, privately operated commercial commuter buses.
Is there any reason why a group of people who have similar transit needs
couldn't get together and start their own bus company (either for profit or
non-profit)?
You've probably heard the news about Orange County Transit's (California)
recent cutbacks. They may end up eliminating over 75% of their scheduled
hours. Many people will likely lose their jobs when they find there's no
alternative transportation. Maybe this might be the solution, at least until
the state of California resumes payments to transit agencies. Who knows when
that will happen....
OCTA will likely have a large number of buses sitting idle due to the
cutbacks. Maybe they could lease them to groups who are willing to offer
transit services.
Jack Hamilton
I am one of the drivers in a commuter vanpool. The van is rented from
Enterprise. I am required to pass a DMV physical exam every two
years. Perhaps that is an Enterprise requirement rather than a state
requirement.
We're in a 10-seater. We see lots of other vanpools on the road, but
I've never seen a 12 or 15-seater.
A new requirement this year is that your BMI must be under 35; mine
is, but when I made the exam appointment over the phone they told me
they wouldn't even make the appointment if it wasn't. 35 or greater
means you have to have a sleep study to rule out sleep apnea.
Joseph D. Korman
> I prefer using the Enterprise teleporter instead, a lot faster. That
> is, as long as you don't mind that temporary tingling in your
> extremities.
>
>
thought of the Galileo Seven. :-)
BTW, this week was the anniversary of NASA introducing the prototype
shell of the Space Shuttle Enterprise, of course named after the Star
Trek ship. That's reality following fiction.
--
-------------------------------------------------
| Joseph D. Korman |
| mailto:re...@thejoekorner.com |
| Visit The JoeKorNer at |
| http://www.thejoekorner.com |
|-------------------------------------------------|
| The light at the end of the tunnel ... |
| may be a train going the other way! |
| Brooklyn Tech Grads build things that work!('66)|
|-------------------------------------------------|
| All outgoing E-mail is scanned by NAV |
-------------------------------------------------
Peter T. Daniels
> Don Freeman wrote:
> > I prefer using the Enterprise teleporter instead, a lot faster. That
> > is, as long as you don't mind that temporary tingling in your
> > extremities.
>
> Funny when I saw the title truncated to Enterprise Shutl.. I immediately
> thought of the Galileo Seven. :-)
>
> BTW, this week was the anniversary of NASA introducing the prototype
> shell of the Space Shuttle Enterprise, of course named after the Star
> Trek ship. That's reality following fiction.
Wasn't the Star Trek Enterprise named for a historic Earth ship? The
other shuttles were named for explorers' ships -- Challenger,
Discovery. (Were there an A and a B, too?)
Don Freeman
rail
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Sep 18, 2:17�pm, "Joseph D. Korman" <joe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Don Freeman wrote:
> > > I prefer using the Enterprise teleporter instead, a lot faster. That
> > > is, as long as you don't mind that temporary tingling in your
> > > extremities.
> >
> > Funny when I saw the title truncated to Enterprise Shutl.. I immediately
> > thought of the Galileo Seven. :-)
> >
> > BTW, this week was the anniversary of NASA introducing the prototype
> > shell of the Space Shuttle Enterprise, of course named after the Star
> > Trek ship. �That's reality following fiction.
>
> Wasn't the Star Trek Enterprise named for a historic Earth ship?
USS Enterprise, one of their fleet carriers and the first nuke. One Star
Trek film, IV The Voyage Home, features it (though in fact she was at sea
when filming took place so the scenes were actually shot on the USS Ranger).
> The other shuttles were named for explorers' ships -- Challenger,
> Discovery. (Were there an A and a B, too?)
--
Graeme Wall
This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at <www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>
cph
> "Merritt Mullen" <mmullen8...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>
> news:mmullen8014-0729...@netnews.asp.att.net...
>
> > Also, privately operated commercial commuter buses.
>
> Is there any reason why a group of people who have similar transit needs
> couldn't get together and start their own bus company (either for profit or
> non-profit)?
They certainly can. It's not a trivial task, though.
(Again, assuming operations within California)
Go to http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/transportation/passengers/
and start reading the documents under "Need Information on Starting or
Operating a Passenger Carrier?". The
rules that apply vary depending on the type of service to be operated.
[...]
> OCTA will likely have a large number of buses sitting idle due to the
> cutbacks. Maybe they could lease them to groups who are willing to offer
> transit services.
Possibly. That may run afoul of agreements OCTA has with their unions,
though.
There are other issues regarding use or disposal of Federally-funded
buses as well....
Patrick Scheible
> On Sep 18, 2:17=A0pm, "Joseph D. Korman" <joe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Don Freeman wrote:
> > > I prefer using the Enterprise teleporter instead, a lot faster. That
> > > is, as long as you don't mind that temporary tingling in your
> > > extremities.
> >
> > Funny when I saw the title truncated to Enterprise Shutl.. I immediately
> > thought of the Galileo Seven. :-)
> >
> > BTW, this week was the anniversary of NASA introducing the prototype
> > shell of the Space Shuttle Enterprise, of course named after the Star
> > Trek ship. =A0That's reality following fiction.
>
> Wasn't the Star Trek Enterprise named for a historic Earth ship?
Yes, the Star Trek Enterprise was named after the U.S. Navy's aircraft
carrier Enterprise. In the mid-1960s, she was the only
nuclear-powered carrier in the Navy.
> The other shuttles were named for explorers' ships -- Challenger,
> Discovery. (Were there an A and a B, too?)
The others were Atlantis, Columbia, and Endeavour. Thanks for making
me look it up, I didn't realize until now that Atlantis was named
after a research vessel, not the lost continent.
-- Patrick
Don Freeman
> Yes, the Star Trek Enterprise was named after the U.S. Navy's aircraft
> carrier Enterprise. In the mid-1960s, she was the only
> nuclear-powered carrier in the Navy.
That's what I had thought too, figuring that there would be no way that
NASA would name one of there flagship vehicles after a space ship in a
Science Fiction TV show. I figure that must just be an urban legend.
But no:
"Enterprise, the first Space Shuttle Orbiter, was originally to be named
Constitution (in honor of the U.S. Constitution's Bicentennial).
However, viewers of the popular TV Science Fiction show Star Trek
started a write-in campaign urging the White House to select the name
Enterprise."
<http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/resources/orbiters/enterprise.html>
--
-Don
www.cosmoslair.com
Patrick Scheible
> Patrick Scheible wrote:
>
> > Yes, the Star Trek Enterprise was named after the U.S. Navy's aircraft
> > carrier Enterprise. In the mid-1960s, she was the only
> > nuclear-powered carrier in the Navy.
>
> That's what I had thought too, figuring that there would be no way that
> NASA would name one of there flagship vehicles after a space ship in a
> Science Fiction TV show. I figure that must just be an urban legend.
If you reread what I wrote, you'll note that I said the Star Trek
Enterprise was named after the nuclear aircraft carrier. The Space
Shuttle orbiter Enterprise was named after the Star Trek Enterprise.
> But no:
>
> "Enterprise, the first Space Shuttle Orbiter, was originally to be named
> Constitution (in honor of the U.S. Constitution's Bicentennial).
> However, viewers of the popular TV Science Fiction show Star Trek
> started a write-in campaign urging the White House to select the name
> Enterprise."
>
> <http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/resources/orbiters/enterprise.html>
I remember that write-in campaign, and I believe I wrote a letter
about it myself. When NASA rolled out the orbiter, the band struck up
with the Star Trek theme music, rather than "America the Beautiful"
or something.
-- Patrick
Stephen Sprunk
NASA kept it simple by using the alphabet:
Atlantis
Boom (aka Challenger)
Crash (aka Columbia)
Discovery
Endeavor
Fake (aka Enterprise)
Don Freeman
> Don Freeman <free...@cosmoslair.com> writes:
>
>> Patrick Scheible wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, the Star Trek Enterprise was named after the U.S. Navy's aircraft
>>> carrier Enterprise. In the mid-1960s, she was the only
>>> nuclear-powered carrier in the Navy.
>> That's what I had thought too, figuring that there would be no way that
>> NASA would name one of there flagship vehicles after a space ship in a
>> Science Fiction TV show. I figure that must just be an urban legend.
>
> If you reread what I wrote, you'll note that I said the Star Trek
> Enterprise was named after the nuclear aircraft carrier.
You certainly did, I guess I had the original question still in mind.
--
-Don
www.cosmoslair.com
Stephen Sprunk
> Is there any reason why a group of people who have similar transit needs
> couldn't get together and start their own bus company (either for profit
> or non-profit)?
Lack of money/credit. Transit, particularly buses, is heavily
subsidized in most places; the low-income passengers affected most by
cutbacks could not afford to pay the entire cost of the service they
use. The credit rating for a new company is based on the credit ratings
of its investors and management, and these people aren't likely to have
the credit necessary to lease the equipment a bus company would need.
Those who _do_ have sufficient money and/or decent credit will simply
buy a car, if they don't already have one, and drive.