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Laurice Whack
As far as I know, RTS games state-syncs every client and server, and the input from the clients get relayed to the server, and all states from all clients will get the same input, because everything is synced.
This is all fine and well, but AFAIK diablo 2 allows players to join servers mid-game, which leads me to believe they use a different architecture. I'm stumped on how they do this though, and if elegant solutions exist for such a thing. Does anyone have a better idea?
I don't know about D2 specifically, but I would imagine it is similar to most MMOs out there. Our basic method is that when new clients connect they request the entire state of the area around them (for D2 it would likely just be the state of the whole server) and then from that point on the server just sends differential updates.
I dont know anything about the network design behind Diablo or the rest you mention, but I would, make a "node based" mapsystem and when people join you only need to sync them with the current node + surrounding nodes (those directly connected) then you can always update those outside viewpoint once you reach the "border"...
Sorry there might be some "wrong numbers" as I just did them very quick by hand, but the idea is that I would say from my X - update the client initially with up to 10 nodes/distance from my location.
By using star algoritme logic, I can quick figureout which part of the map I need to provide to the client. Once the client is update, and begins to move, I just keep updating the outer border in the direction the client moves.
Ok , i get this. But again, FIFA is set in the football universe, just as diablo is in the diablo universe. Would you play and pay for it if you did not get the ball? Just because you MIGHT get the ball later? For another drop of cash ? Are you really defending this practice mate?
Thank you to all who answered. Now I understand the error of my ways. Diablo 4 is a perfect game, with no flaws whatsoever. The level of meticulous detail that went into the game is staggering. Absolutely the best piece of software, not only a game, that came out on any medium. Nothing is bad with it, and the fact that I had THE GALL to want Diablo to make an appearance in a series that is named after him makes me embarrassed. Now I understand guys. Why would I even care if Diablo is in a Diablo game? The developers know better.
There have been many recent discussions about how the ARPG genre needs to evolve. I have a question for the Diablo community. How would you feel if the Diablo series decided to stray from the traditional isometric perspective we've enjoyed for the past 20 years? Obviously, it's more than the camera perspective that makes an ARPG and Diablo game but would this change be too bold? Could it be made to still feel like a Diablo game?
World of Warcraft was made because Everquest was something they thought had potential and they could do a better version of, not because Warcraft RTS needed to be evolved. If Diablo has to evolve its camera positioning, then it has to be to support some core game design element, not just because it looks cool or different.
Kinda like Resident Evil games, how it changed from being static positioned horror genre into more action gameplay controlled by a character; the change was made to support the gameplay. I don't think Diablo necessarily needs that kind of change unless they really want to bring back the original atmospheric horror style. They risk giving up practically everything else by doing that. The fast-frantic powergaming aspects wouldn't translate in a 3rd person over-the-shoulder view. This view is best for a slower paced action game that doesn't clutter the screen with spell effects and hundreds of enemies/pets at a time.
I agree that there is no need to change the camera. I have been a long time fan of Diablo since the first game simply because it was not like all of the others. If they must change the game then I would like to see more interaction with other NPC's. That is the one thing I really loved about the Dragon Age series was that as you progressed through the game your followers would react differently depending on the choices you made. But Diablo is more of just a dungeon crawl game but I would like to see it get a little more role playing aspects but keep the dungeon crawl feel and play
The moment they take away the isometric view from Diablo, is the day they change something fundamental to something entirely else. Isometric view in an ARPG dungeon crawler like Diablo is a key style and genre factor.
Isometric games, with high-res backgrounds, excellent music, excellent characters and excellent "setting" and story, are magical in their own way.
I hope they never remove the isometric view from Diablo, like they removed runes, runewords, map-randomzation, character-development, skill-trees, charms, diablo-music, diablo-npc's etc.
Diablo 3 failed in many ways, and also brought some obvious improvements (right-click to equip or move around items for example, or the shared stash space etc.).
However, Diablo 3 IMO failed also at one crucial aspect. You see... Isometric games don't live off fancy views of a huge world etc, but they live off of detail of the world presented in the isometric view. That is why the world must be made with a huge love for details in landscape, objects, architecture, monsters, NPCs etc.. This is one of the main reasons why washed out textures work in WOW but not in Diablo 3. In WOW the world lives off the ability to look far at the horizon, and be intrigued to go there and explore. But a game like Diablo that has an isometric view, MUST have much more love put into world-details, high-quality textures, High-quality NPCs, High quality Music and atmospheric ambience sounds, character development, etc.
Its because those two games capitalize on an entirely different aspect of "graphics". IMO Blizzard failed in terns of "graphics" and art-style in Diablo 3, because they used what worked in WOW, but you cant do that, due to the reason explained above.
If they would zoom-out the camera a little bit more in Diablo 3, it would make a big difference in how the game would looks. The camera zooms out during the fight with Belial, and if they would zoom out the camera to a point between what we have now and halfway to how the camera is zoomed out during the Belial fight, the game would look much better and combat would also be better IMO.
Lets see if they can show the world that they know what an isometric ARPG can be, by showing that they finally understand what made D2 the best isometric ARPG for almost two decades.
There's plenty of fast-paced third person games now, but they are basically built for consoles/controllers first. Even though MMOs are getting more actiony, they are typically still more about skill rotations. So going here would depend largely on how Blizzard feels about consoles IMO. (Hell, maybe that is why D3 is largely abandoned now...)
The ISO view is a standard for the genre, there are way more failed 3rd person diabloesque games than successful. Honestly only 2 come to mind and they are more hybrid fps, Borderlands and The Division.
The real question is why is it a FIXED isometric view? Why can't you simply change the camera around? Does that detract from some of the engineering of the assets? Does the "zoom in" feature imply that the world is entirely 3D?
The biggest problem you can already see with the mockups is you get almost zero vision behind you, for an increased forward vision that doesn't help much with decisionmaking. This reduces the speed of the game tremendously, when you actually have to go up to a corner to see what's behind it. There's absolutely no way that some of the speed builds would work.
Hells yes! It would a dream for blizzard to make a 3rd person game like dragons dogma or dark souls. Why not make it a Diablo game? Those games are way more immerssive. I've enjoyed playing all the Diablo games. If they take their time on making good models, they will knock this game out of the park. They don't need to make it an mmo. But there can be aspects to let people to play together. Please. Bring on the 3rd person.
As long as they don't call it Diablo it could be nice, but let's be honest Diablo IS an isometric perspective game, besides why would they make another RPG that shares the same camera with their top franchise?
i've played wow since release, stopped after d3 released, played all the way till season 8 even got a few top 100 EU, but just got back to wow since d3 is way beyond stale and i can say in my honest opinion that Diablo's isometric camera > wow's 3rd person camera, the amount of bugs + lack of proper vision with 20+ mob pulls on wow's camera is much higher.