Re: [kubernetes/enhancements] Server-side Apply (#555)

[Tim Fogarty]

Hi @lavalamp and @apelisse, I'm the docs wrangler for the 1.13 release. Could you please open a placeholder PR for the docs for this enhancement against the dev-1.13 branch of k/website and send me a link? If you already have a docs PR open, or if this doesn't require docs in k/website, please let me know.

The deadline for placeholder PRs for the 1.13 release is November 8. So it's important to make a docs PR as soon as possible.

If you have any questions about any of this, I'm happy to help. You can also message me on slack (I'm tfogo there too).

Thanks!

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[Antoine Pelisse]

@tfogo Thanks for your help! I created it here: kubernetes/website#10812

[Guinevere Saenger]

Hi @lavalamp and @apelisse - I'm Enhancements Shadow for 1.13. Reading through this thread and considering the method of tracking this feature, could you please update the release team with the likelihood of this enhancement making the 1.13 release?

Code slush begins on 11/9 and code freeze is 11/15.

Thank you!

[Antoine Pelisse]

Hi @guineveresaenger, there are still chances that we miss the release, but we're doing everything we can to have a high-quality alpha feature in 1.13!

[Aish Sundar]

@apelisse can we please time-box the Go/NoGo decision to Wednesday (11/14) next week. At this point in the cycle we expect all 1.13 enhancements to have all code and test PRs either merged or very close to merging. I understand this feature is being developed in a feature branch. But with Code freeze next Friday (11/16), we need to merge it into master atleast by early Wednesday to get stable CI signals for a couple of days from Master. If that's not possible we will have to push it to 1.14. Thanks

@kacole2

[Daniel Smith]

We found a couple bugs at the last second so we will merge this as the first thing for 1.14 when master opens.

[Aish Sundar]

Thanks for the update @lavalamp.

@kacole2 @tfogo @marpaia @kbarnard10 as FYI

[Claire Laurence]

@apelisse @lavalamp Hello - I’m the enhancement’s lead for 1.14 and I’m checking in on this issue to see what work (if any) is being planned for the 1.14 release. Enhancements freeze is Jan 29th.

[Antoine Pelisse]

Hello @claurence, we're planning to release this feature alpha this cycle! I just updated the description to reflect the new milestone. Anything else I need to update?

[Claire Laurence]

@apelisse sounds good! I'll add this to our 1.14 tracking sheet.

[Felix Becker]

What would the API request done by the client look like after this? I assume it would send the full local resource definition, but would it still be a PATCH request? Or a PUT?

I'm really excited about this, it takes out a lot of complexity from custom clients.

[Antoine Pelisse]

Yes, it will receive the local object on the PATCH verb, with a specific content-type.

[Felix Becker]

Btw the link to the design proposal is broken

[Antoine Pelisse]

Fixed, thanks, good catch.

[Felix Becker]

This seems to be the latest link https://github.com/kubernetes/enhancements/blob/master/keps/sig-api-machinery/0006-apply.md

[Felix Becker]

Btw, all the design Google docs linked in there are not publicly viewable.

[Antoine Pelisse]

Hi Felix, that doc needs a massive clean-up, I'll take care of that right after code-freeze (or before if we have extra-time). Thanks!

[Daniel Smith]

I am back, maybe I can update the KEP.

[Jordan Liggitt]

/assign lavalamp

[Cody Clark]

Hi @apelisse! I'm one of the v1.14 docs release shadows.

Does this enhancement require any new docs (or modifications)?

Just a friendly reminder we're looking for a PR against k/website (branch dev-1.14) due by Friday, March 1. It would be great if it's the start of the full documentation, but even a placeholder PR is acceptable. Let me know if you have any questions!

[Antoine Pelisse]

Thanks for the reminder @cody-clark, we definitely need documentation!

[Cody Clark]

Perfect! I'll mark it in the tracking sheet. Thanks for the quick reply, @apelisse!

[Claire Laurence]

@apelisse looking over the KEP for this enhancement I don't see any testing plans - can someone help PR in testing plans for this enhancement? This information is helpful for knowing readiness of this feature for the release and is specifically useful for CI Signal.

If we don't have testing plans this enhancement will be at risk for being included in the 1.14 release

[Antoine Pelisse]

@claurence I've updated the description, let me know if you expected something different! Thanks!

[lledru]

Hello, 1.14 enhancement shadow here. Code Freeze is March 7th and all PRs must be merged by then to your issue to make the 1.14 release. What open K/K PRs do you still have that need to merge? Thanks

[Antoine Pelisse]

Hey @lledru, we have a few PRs in flight that should get merged in the week or so. None of them is really blocking for the release and we absolutely could release in the current state!

[lledru]

hello @apelisse,
Can you please submit a PR against the KEP with the testing plan ?

This information is helpful for knowing readiness of this feature for the release and is specifically useful for CI Signal.
If we don't have testing plans this enhancement will be at risk for being included in the 1.14 release

thank you very much.

[Jim Angel]

Hey @apelisse, the docs deadline was last Friday March 1st (to open a placeholder PR). Do you have any PRs in flight for dev-1.14 docs? Is this still targeting 1.14?

[Antoine Pelisse]

We've created the documentation place-holder: kubernetes/website#12898. I'm not sure it's correct but at least it exists :-)

[Antoine Pelisse]

@lledru Thanks for the reminder, @jennybuckley is working on updating the KEP.

[Antoine Pelisse]

@lledru There it is: #878

[Kendrick Coleman]

@apelisse any work planned here for 1.15 or staying in Alpha?

[Antoine Pelisse]

Yep, it's going beta 1.15 hopefully

[Kendrick Coleman]

Thanks @apelisse. When the time is right, drop in the k/k PRs associated with the beta graduation criteria that's called out in the KEP

/milestone v1.15
/stage beta

[simplytunde]

Hey @apelisse. I can see you had a placeholder PR for 1.14 but we need a PR against k/website (branch dev-1.15) due by Thursday, May 30. It would be great if it's the start of the full documentation, but even a placeholder PR is acceptable. Let me know if you have any questions!

[Kevin Wiesmüller]

@simplytunde @apelisse I'll take care of it, as I still got some stuff to put in the docs for my "clear managedFields" task.

[Antoine Pelisse]

Thanks @kwiesmueller let me know if I can help!

[Kevin Wiesmüller]

Done: kubernetes/website#14300
We can use this as a placeholder PR and use it for other things we might want to add for 1.15

[Felix Becker]

I'm beyond exited for this to land (next month?).
Is there a way to try it out already (in Minikube)?

[Kendrick Coleman]

Hi @apelisse @kwiesmueller . Code Freeze is Thursday, May 30th 2019 @ EOD PST. All enhancements going into the release must be code-complete, including tests, and have docs PRs open.

Please list all current k/k PRs so they can be tracked going into freeze. If the PRs aren't merged by freeze, this feature will slip for the 1.15 release cycle. Only release-blocking issues and PRs will be allowed in the milestone.

If you know this will slip, please reply back and let us know. Thanks!

[Antoine Pelisse]

I really don't see how this would be done by code-freeze. I think you can mark it for 1.16 :-/

[Felix Becker]

😭

[Antoine Pelisse]

@felixfbecker You can use any kubernetes 1.14 or later with the ServerSideApply feature enabled to try it out.

In minikube, it would be something like ... minikube start --feature-gates=ServerSideApply=true as far as I understand!

Sorry we missed it, we have a scalability issue that we need to address first.

[joshmsamuels]

@apelisse Does using the ServerSideApply flag enable the beta version of this PR?

[Kendrick Coleman]

/milestone clear

[Antoine Pelisse]

It enables everything that has been released in 1.14 plus what we merged in master since then.
I'd love to learn more about the feature you want, what you're building with it, and what you don't like about the feature! Feel free to ping me on slack (apelisse@)

[Felix Becker]

Was that last comment directed at me?

[Antoine Pelisse]

@felixfbecker and someone else who deleted their post ;-)

[joshmsamuels]

@felixfbecker It was me. Sorry about that I deleted my post since I found the answer after stumbling across this thread 🙃

[Eddie Villalba]

Hi @apelisse , I'm the 1.16 Enhancement Shadow. Is this feature going to be graduating alpha/beta/stable stages in 1.16? Please let me know so it can be added to the 1.16 Tracking Spreadsheet and I can update the milestone and stage tags

Once coding begins or if it already has, please list all relevant k/k PRs in this issue so they can be tracked properly.

Milestone dates are Enhancement Freeze 7/30 and Code Freeze 8/29.

Thank you.

[Antoine Pelisse]

Yeah, we're planning on releasing this feature as Beta.

[Maria Ntalla]

/remove-label tracked/no
/label tracked/yes

[simplytunde]

Hey, @apelisse @lavalamp I'm the v1.16 docs release lead.

Does this enhancement (or the work planned for v1.16) require any new docs (or modifications)?

Just a friendly reminder we're looking for a PR against k/website (branch dev-1.16) due by Friday,August 23rd. It would be great if it's the start of the full documentation, but even a placeholder PR is acceptable. Let me know if you have any questions!

[champak]

Is a limited version of server-side apply available in v 13 (that is where my cluster is at) ? Some exchanges above seemed to imply it may be. My use case is for creating pods/deplyments/services in the reconcile loop of an operator. Using the api/core<>Pod etc. is tedious and error prone and being able to use a server api to apply yaml would be a lot cleaner for me. Thanks for any suggestions..

[Antoine Pelisse]

@champak, you can try it out using by turning on the feature-gate "ServerSideApply" your apiserver, but please keep in mind that this is still an alpha feature.

[Kendrick Coleman]

@apelisse code freeze for 1.16 is on Thursday 8/29. Are there any outstanding k/k PRs that still need to be merged for this to go Beta?

[Antoine Pelisse]

@kacole2 Yep, we have some:

• kubernetes/kubernetes#81754
• kubernetes/kubernetes#78738
• kubernetes/kubernetes#81816

We also need another trivial PR to enable the feature.

[Felix Becker]

What are the criteria for something to enter beta? I've tried server side apply but it doesn't seem useable really rn as a replacement to client-side apply that kubectl does: kubernetes/kubernetes#80916

[Daniel Smith]

@felixfbecker Sorry that slipped through the cracks! Thanks for trying it out. I agree something is wrong and we need to fix it for beta.

But in general, it sounds a bit like you have an expectation that this is an extension of client side apply, actually it's more like a parallel system--use one or the other. The general transition mechanism is to follow Jenny's advice in your bug. We did this to provide a very safe experience-- you can choose exactly which behavior you want.

We will provide a seamless transition experience when we deprecate client side apply.

[Kendrick Coleman]

Hi @apelisse it looks as though kubernetes/kubernetes#81816 didn't merge before code freeze and it's not in the Tide Merge Pool. This feature is going to be bumped from v1.16. If you would still like to have this be a part of the 1.16 release, please file an exception

[Daniel Smith]

The mandatory prs merged, this is beta now.

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 4:58 AM Kendrick Coleman <notifi...@github.com>
wrote:

> Hi @apelisse <https://github.com/apelisse> it looks as though
> kubernetes/kubernetes#81816
> <https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/pull/81816> didn't merge before
> code freeze and it's not in the Tide Merge Pool <https://prow.k8s.io/tide>.

> This feature is going to be bumped from v1.16. If you would still like to
> have this be a part of the 1.16 release, please file an exception

> <https://github.com/kubernetes/sig-release/blob/master/releases/EXCEPTIONS.md>
>
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[Guinevere Saenger]

@lavalamp would you mind clarifying? are you saying kubernetes/kubernetes#81816 wasn't mandatory for this feature to be in beta?

[Jennifer Buckley]

@guineveresaenger It's not mandatory for this feature to be in beta. That PR is to address scalability concerns and can be merged in a future release, it doesn't change the API and only improves performance in clusters where many things are managed by this new feature

[Daniel Smith]

@guineveresaenger Yes, it's opt-in on a per-object basis in beta 1, so that isn't needed as there's no longer a global performance impact.

[Kendrick Coleman]

thanks for letting me know @lavalamp

[Bob Killen]

Hey there @lavalamp @apelisse -- 1.17 Enhancements lead here. I wanted to check in and see if you think this Enhancement will be graduating to alpha/beta/stable in 1.17?

The current release schedule is:

• Monday, September 23 - Release Cycle Begins
• Tuesday, October 15, EOD PST - Enhancements Freeze
• Thursday, November 14, EOD PST - Code Freeze
• Tuesday, November 19 - Docs must be completed and reviewed
• Monday, December 9 - Kubernetes 1.17.0 Released

If you do, please list all relevant k/k PRs in this issue so they can be tracked properly. 👍

Thanks!

/milestone clear

[Antoine Pelisse]

Hi @mrbobbytables, while we're planning great improvements to this feature for the next release, but we're not planning on moving to GA yet. Thanks.

[Bob Killen]

@apelisse noted -- thanks for the quick response! 😄

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[Kevin Wiesmüller]

/remove-lifecycle stale

[Antoine Pelisse]

We're working on a "beta 2" release of this feature for 1.18, not sure how/if we need to track that, but happy to follow a process.

[Jeremy Rickard]

Hey @apelisse, thanks for highlighting that! We'll track it as a change within beta in the enhancements sheet. Will there be any changes to the KEP associated with this? Or will this just be related to code changes? If you could link all the k/k PRs associated with this so we can track it, that would be great.

If you're making any KEP changes, Enhancements Freeze will be January 28th
Code Freeze will be March 5th.

Thanks!

[Jeremy Rickard]

/milestone v1.18

[Kevin Wiesmüller]

We might get #1442 merged until the 28th.
Maybe even #923.

And i just saw that #1123 merged, so the implementation could make it into 1.18 as well.

[Seth McCombs]

Hello, @apelisse - I'm a Docs shadow on the 1.18 release team.

Does this enhancement work planned for 1.18 require any new docs or modifications to existing docs?

If not, can you please update the 1.18 Enhancement Tracker Sheet (or let me know and I'll do so)

If doc updates are required, reminder that the placeholder PRs against k/website (branch dev-1.18) are due by Friday, Feb 28th.

Let me know if you have any questions!

—

[Antoine Pelisse]

We're currently working on the docs, thanks for the reminder!

[Jeremy Rickard]

Hey @apelisse @kwiesmueller,

Just a friendly reminder that code freeze for 1.18 is March 05, 2020.

As we track toward code freeze, please list out/link to any PRs you are working on toward graduating this enhancement!

[Kevin Wiesmüller]

Thanks for the reminder!

[Jeremy Rickard]

Hey @apelisse @kwiesmueller,

Circling back as we are getting closer to code freeze. Please list any k/k PRs you are working on so we can better track this issue.

[Kevin Wiesmüller]

I think we won't make it with the stuff I'm working on.
@apelisse might have some and probably @julianvmodesto with dryrun and diff?

[Antoine Pelisse]

I've created the placeholder doc PR: kubernetes/website#19286

[Jeremy Rickard]

Hey @apelisse friendly reminder that code freeze for 1.18 is March 5th. That's just a few days away. Thanks for opening the docs PR above....could you link to any relevant K/K PRs for this so we can better track the progress of the enhancement as we get closer to code freeze?

Thanks so much!

[Jeremy Rickard]

Hey @apelisse, unfortunately kubernetes/kubernetes#88875 didn't merge before code freeze (looks like it needs to be approved still). At this point, you'll need to file an exception request for this one.

[Jeremy Rickard]

/milestone clear

[KRJW]

What is happening with this?

[Antoine Pelisse]

We're still beta, we worked on new improvements but we're not ready for GA yet. We'll release a blog-post in a few days about this!

[Nabarun Pal]

Hi @apelisse -- 1.19 Enhancements Lead here, I wanted to check in if you think this enhancement would graduate in 1.19?

---

The current release schedule is:

• Monday, April 13: Week 1 - Release cycle begins
• Tuesday, May 19: Week 6 - Enhancements Freeze
• Thursday, June 25: Week 11 - Code Freeze
• Thursday, July 9: Week 14 - Docs must be completed and reviewed
• Tuesday, August 4: Week 17 - Kubernetes v1.19.0 released

[Antoine Pelisse]

Hi there, we're not planning on promoting this feature this cycle, thank you!

[Nabarun Pal]

Thank you @apelisse for the updates. I will update the tracking sheet accordingly. 👍

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[Kirsten]

Hi @apelisse

Enhancements Lead here. Any plans to graduate this in 1.20?

Thanks,
Kirsten

[Antoine Pelisse]

Not really, we're planning to keep improving the existing feature, but there is no graduation scheduled for 1.20, thanks!

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[Antoine Pelisse]

/remove-lifecycle stale

We're planning on graduating to GA this cycle.

[adammrozik]

@apelisse , sounds wonderful! It would be very useful for my team, so just wanted to know what kind of date would this cycle be?

[Antoine Pelisse]

It's already beta so you should be able to try it out with 1.15 (though the latter the better). We're planning 1.21 for GA, but I don't know if the schedule is available yet.

[Daniel Smith]

/milestone v1.21

[Anna]

Hi @apelisse, 1.21 Enhancements Lead here.
I see that you’ve opted in this enhancement into 1.21, but I also see that this is tagged with participation from the SIG cli. Is that accurate? If so, is there work that SIG cli must deliver in 1.21 as well?

[Maciej Szulik]

I see that you’ve opted in this enhancement into 1.21, but I also see that this is tagged with participation from the SIG cli. Is that accurate? If so, is there work that SIG cli must deliver in 1.21 as well?

Most of the work is currently on the apimachinery side, but @apelisse is updating sig-cli about progress and working out eventual details so 👍 from sig-cli side.