WEEK 2: Plato's Symposium

[Mateo Duque]

I put up a .pdf of Plato's Symposium in the Google Documents folder for next week’s reading. It is a very good translation by Alexander Nehamas and Paul Woodruff.

The parts I am requiring you to read are:

(Use the Stephanus number on the sides)

(1) The first part which is a frame-narrative for the speeches told later in the dialogue. Sections 172a-178b.
(2) Aristophanes's speech. Sections 188e-194e
(3) Socrates's speech and
(4) Alcibiades's drunken interruption of the party. Sections198a - to the end of the dialogue.



Here are some of my thoughts on the Symposium:

“That,” he said, “is my speech about Love, Eryximachus. It is rather different from yours. As I begged you earlier, don’t make a comedy of it” (193D).

Aristophanes warns Eryximachus not to take his speech as a comedy. However, Aristophanes was a comic writer. He wrote comedies, and one of them, The Clouds, satirized Socrates. There are humorous elements to Aristophanes’s speech. Most notably the visual images he gives us of two people stuck together and Zeus splitting them, in the way one might cut a hard boiled egg with a wire. On the other hand, I would argue that Aristophanes’s account of Love (Eros) is tragic. Think about it. We are by nature separated from that which makes us whole. There is no guarantee that we will find that “other half.” And even if we do, the double-creatures in Aristophanes’s myth died a single death. Now that we separated from the other part of ourselves, even if we find them and get to love them for a while, we don’t die with them. Thus,

we are left suffering alone by ourselves, knowing that we have lost that unified part. Aristophanes focuses on the “negative” side of ‘Love’ (Eros), passion or desire. He looks at Eros and sees the hungry longing that it feeds in us for the things that we don’t have. Stay tuned because Socrates will also pick up on this theme, but his account of attraction is not so tragic; Socrates will show us what Love, Eros, passion, desire can motivate us to do positive things, if we train it right.

My question in general, and to the class, is: Obviously we’re not going to take Aristophanes seriously, in the sense that there is no way that we think he is trying to give us, let’s say, a scientific description of Love and its origin. But, do you think that Aristophanes’s portrait of painful longing for some missing part of ourselves describes your own personal experiences with Love, passion, or desire?

Remember don’t just answer my question! Quote from the reading; use it to show me that you’ve read carefully and are trying to understand what is going. Also, try to come up with your own question. That is where philosophy begins to take place.

[tresjoli17]

Hi Professor. I am having some trouble finding the document on the Symposium. Could you help me please?

[olivia.kotz]

I found it by clicking on the "Drive" tab, which takes you to Google Docs, and searching "symposium." It should come up in the results as a PDF. Hope that helps! :)

[Duvall Ledbetter]

"Each of us, then, is a "matching half" of a human whole, because each was sliced like a flatfish, two out of one, and each of us is always seeking the half that matches him" (191e). 

While I was reading Aristophanes speech on Love and bringing people together, there was a small reflection back to  previous mini-relationships with girlfriends. Although Aristophane is thought of as a wiseguy who doesn't take things seriously, I believe he brings up a few good points about the creation of Love.  I wholeheartedly agree with Aristophane on this quote because if you look at the general reasoning for attraction towards a male or female counterpart, one would want someone who has similar traits or backgrounds. I know I always seek out familiar qualities in a potential romantic partner. If there is a missing piece of the puzzle in terms of relationships, why not continue looking for the other half that matches you?. Personally, I feel love feels a void in everyone's life. Aristophane basically gave a visual perception of longing for a possible connection to someone with the flatfish. After all it makes sense. If you have a slice of bread cut into two equal parts and one half is missing, you're not just going to get another piece of bread cut in any shape or form. You would want the missing half of the slice that you cut. That idea is similar to the concept of love. Aristophane points out the need to be complete and whole with two people in other sections of the  

I wonder what Diatoma meant by love is in between mortal and immortal? What was she trying to imply by saying love does not have a choice and spirits send messages?     

[Givan]

Quote: “Whenever one of the halves died and one was left, the one that was left still sought another and wove itself together with that.” (191, b)

In reading the speech given by Aristophanes, this quote definitely stood out to me as it could be directly referenced to love and relationships. If we analyze the theory of soul mates and inseparability, we could conclude that one depends on the other to flourish and live a fulfilling life. We could further say that in the absence of sunlight, a tree cannot photosynthesize thus not being able to reproduce or bear fruit. So can we conclude that in the absence of one’s other half, life ceases? One party wholeheartedly depends on the other for completion. As a result, if one dies or is no longer in existence, then the other should not desire anyone else. They are no longer the same because that which completes them is no longer around. Ultimately they should become numb of feeling and emotion and not seek a replacement. So therefore, whilst life does not end, it should become unfulfilling to the party that experiences loss.

 

 

[sharifa.wickham]

"the Common Aphrodite's Love is...truly common...This...love felt by the vulgar...to the body more than to the soul" (pg 10 par. B).

This was, at times, a bit of an uncomfortable read; not because of the homosexuality but because of their differences of loving an adult male than a young boy. However, I do love the speech Pausanias gives of the two different types of love: Heavenly and Common. I relate his speech to a novel I read, "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" by Milan Kundera, which is about two different couples, and how they love one another; through body or through soul. The body or soul is relative to Common or Heavenly love, where the body is considered Common love and the soul is considered Heavenly love. Obviously, the Heavenly love (soul) is a much deeper love which involves sacrifices and is more than just sex. Common love (body) can be viewed as being materialistic or only through sex, which leads to a temporary relationship rather than permanency. His speech, I believe, is a great explanation of the two types of love one seeks for, and why it is better to love through Heavenly love.

Why are females rarely mentioned in their speeches?

[linda.chen1945]

Aristophanes gave his speech about wholeness, and the reason why people are always looking for a soul mate is because they are looking for their other half. He talks about the God’s splitting a double human once made of the "sun" and "earth" into two, and splitting someone made of the "moon". He even goes on to saying that if we do not make the right sacrifices to the Gods, he will split humans into two again, allowing us to hop only on one leg. The split is the reason why men may yearn for the companion of a woman or a man, or a woman yearning for the companion of a man or another woman. He talks about marraige and children, and maybe he is discontent is with not being able to find his other half and have children of his own.  “Love is born into every human being; it calls back the halves of our original nature together; it tries to make one out of the two and heal the wound of human nature”.

A quote I do not understand:

"What is mortal shared in immortality, whether it is a body or anything else, while the immortal has another way"

[gulyabigela]

I like the Aristophanes’ idea about previous wholeness of two people, because it is very romantic and, even as a myth, explains a lot about human nature and various orientations. As he argues, we all seek the other “matching half”, so “a man who is split from the double sort (..) runs after women”. However, “women who were split from a women, pay no attention at all to men, they are oriented more towards women,” (191e) and it also relates to the males. It is a fascinating approach, which underlines that it is deep inside in human nature to be different and also that it is normal. As to the painful longing for the person, whom we love, these feelings really take place, but they are not so constant as Aristophanes describes. Many people at one moment of their life are confident that the person they love is the right one for them, but after years they might love completely different individual and be sure again that this new one is their very missing half. Thus, my point is that it is not so easy to determine will this feeling be the love till the end of their live or it will fade after time. I believe it depends from people, their faith in each other and a lot of work on their relationships.

Socrates’ speech includes more realistic Diotima’s theory of love, which explains love as a spiritual phenomenon, but not as a God-like creature. She insists that the main goal of love is mere reproduction, which brings immortality for the humanity as a whole.

However, I do not understand clearly the purpose of Alcibiades speech: did this praise of Socrates figure mean to demonstrate the expression of love in reality, or had it any other different goals?

[trinimjs]

Marissa

191D—‘Love is born into every human being,’

 Aristophanes’s portrait of painful longing for some missing part of ourselves describes my own personal experience with Love, passion, or desire in a way that was introduced to him. We all learn from some one in order to derive at a belief and to have passion for that belief. Aristophanes quoted Zeus, because he was the name of the Greek King of the God of the sky, so he had a higher power of belief for which he had a passion. In my personal experience, I find that everyone have a higher power of belief weather tangible or intangible for instance Zeus being a tangible and God the Father being an intangible God (A Spirit) I believe God is Love, and because of this.

Our parents had to have loved us to give birth to us. The passion to have someone to care for gives a woman the desire to give birth.  Without love we will have no passion or desire to accomplish anything in life.  And I agree with Aristophanes that ‘Love is born into every human being’ because truth be bold.  We all were loved and cared for even before we were born. We carry it in our DNA the questions is what we do with it

As we progress in life.

[asiyebodur91]

-Asi

"Love is born into every human being; it calls back the halves of our original nature together; it tries to

make one out of two and heal the wound of human nature."

-Is love really born into every human? where does the "hatred", the "animosity of human act" come from? how can such creatures as said in the speech create violence, if its in our natures to love, then where did the hate come from? and then sorrow? is that a part of love? I wonder why the heart wasn't mentioned in the speech being that the heart is symbol of love. Does it necessarily heal the wounds, if so how can one cheat on the other while loving eachother? then that isn't true love? 

"In every way, then, this sort of man grows up as a lover of young men and a lover of Love, always rejoicing in his own kind." -I find this quote very, well irritating and ridiculous. So a man loves another man because he is masculine and handsome looking, clearly Aristophanes wasn't founded by females and is stating that males are conceited. Then the meaning of love is to love another male? So how can lesbians be blamed if all males are going for the other males and there are none left for females....hmmm maybe Aristophanes was trying to say this is how lesbians came about to be...when the women weren't "loved"...women were left without "love"...and then I am also assuming that if I am ever cheated on that the other person will be a male no matter what! 

I found Aristophanes speech really ironic and like a comedy. His description of how we came to be and the third specie, this seems to totally disagree with Darwin and a lot of biological theorist. In any case, the idea or subject of "love" or the context that its being used is not clear to me, hypothetically presumptions of his argument. And then another part that might be worth questioning and thinking about is, if we do wrong then we will be split in half again, now leaving us with only one eye, one ear and such sort, which means deformed. So can we say we already did wrong to the gods and therefore dwarfism, cleft palates, deformities of face and poly-dactyl in hands  are a cause? 

[laquintaclark]

"Sometimes, believe me, I think I would be happier if he were dead. And yet I know that if he dies I'll be even more miserable. I can't live with him, and I can't live without him! What can I do about him?" (216c)

Alcibiades delivered his speech about Socrates I feel as a lover scorned as well as a pupil who feels he can't "measure up". The speech explains the depth of emotions he had for Socrates and his work, how he would be so moved by his speeches that he would be trapped by him. This longing Alcibiades carries for Socrates can very well play into Aristophanes "longing for our other half". Just as anyone who has been in love, the object of affection can make you feel almost invisible, small and still you can't live without this person no matter the degree of hurt. Love can be tricky, manipulative, confusing or blissfully satisfying; no one wants to be alone and so the urge to have another there to share such strong feelings with  is a longing that will never go away. Without someone to share the happy/sad times with it could feel as if your just existing and not living and we all want to live! Although love, passion and/or desire can come at various stages in our lives, we must know how to deal and understand what those feelings actually mean.

Agathon's speech about Love was compelling I felt, but Love comes in all shapes, colors, heights, etc; the beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Is there a possibility that Agathon could have been speaking of Love as an inner feeling and how when you're in love everything is beautiful and nothing seems ugly or could the ideal of love or the ideal of being in love is what's beautiful?

[odinredd]

love is wanting to possess the good for forever.

he(LOVE) is between mortal and immortal.

The object of love is giving birth in beauty, whether in body or soul.

love must desire immortality.

It is for the sake of immortality that everything shows this Zeal, which is Love.

All of the thoughts above are from Diotima. She is the one who taught Socrates about what he believes love is. 

From my understanding, to them, Love is of the spiritual and beautiful plane. Not only that, but that Love can only be found in the confines of immortality. No one knows what Love looks like but there is talk about the absolute beauty and one form of love. I happen to agree with this idea since love is used so much that it suggests there must be a baseness to it that words like Food also enjoy. So I guess over all, True Love is Immortal and has One basic beautiful form that we cannot really even see since it is spiritual. 

It is interesting because the path that Diotima lays out for one to understand true love is to "reproduce spiritually"; since reproduction is the only way for the mortal to become immortal. She seems to suggest that the best way to do that most effectively is to love freely with those you are able to love. This suggests both physically and spiritually and with any gender. This also provide huge insight into Socrates' reputation as a lover.

[pclottin]

"... the two are struck from their senses by love, by a sense of belonging to one another, and by desire, and they don't want to be separated from one another, not even for a moment." (192C)

     Aristophanes' speech is creative and farfetched, saying that, it does have some truth to it. I believe we want to be accepted, especially when it comes to being in a relationship. Companionship is yearned for at some point in our lives. We need it. We also need that person who we are intimate with to accept our flaws and love us unconditionally. We search for this counterpart and through trial and error, if we are fortunate, we will find them. This bond will feel like it has bonded us as one and in my opinion, we would feel completed. Until one day for whatever reason, that bond is broken. That love of yours is gone and you are left "severed" in a sense.

    An excerpt that I found interesting was what Socrates said to Alcibiades after he confessed that he wanted Socrates to be his lover and teach him to be a better man.
"...If I really have in me the power to make you a better man, then you can see in me a beauty that is really beyond description and makes your own remarkable good looks pale in comparison.." (500E)
     This is important to me because, Socrates was a man who lived by his thinking. He wasn't just a man full of hot air who spoke eloquently. He walked the walk and that goes a long way with me, especially with people with power.

-Phil Clottin

[odinredd]

My question to everyone else is: Is there such a thing as a pure form of Love, or a basic theme to all the forms of love that we have out there? Is love actually eternal or just something that is tied only to the chemicals in our brain. Could all of these things be true at once as many believe God can be everywhere and everything at once? Can love be a part of some even larger design as the basic item Food is only a part of a feast, since feast also involves drink and people and music. Can love actually be another sense that we as humans are born with since we are all born with senses? Maybe it is the 7th sense, or it could be a part of our 6th sense which is gut feeling, intuition, and things unseen. Maybe our 6th sense is a lot more interesting than we think.

[rican230]

Quote "We used to be complete wholes in our original nature, and now "Love" is the name for our pursuit of wholeness, for our desire to be complete" (192C-193A)

I believe that Aristophanes was discussing about soul mates from this quote.  he is discussing how love is our pursuit to wholeness and completeness.  The way Aristophanes describes the missing part of ourselves reminds me of soul mates.  In my opinion, soul mate means to find your missing half.  Your missing half consist of finding a significant person that can compliment your lifestyle, habits, wants and needs.  it is the person that will complete you as a person and brings balance to your life.  I believe everyone has a pursuit to wholeness when it comes to love.

My question is what happens to people that never fall in love?  is it possible never to fall in love?  can people that never fall in love feel complete?

[jimborat69]

To gratify Pltaedrus (the passiollate admirer of speeches and rhetoric in the dialogue named after him), who indignantly re­ grets the lIeglect by Greek poets and writers of the god of Love, the company agree to give speeches in turn, while they all drink, in praise of Love. 'Love' (Greek eros) covers sexual attraction and gratification between men and women and between men and teenage boys, (nit tlie foCHS lIere is also and espe­ cially on the adult trIale's role as ethical and intellectual educator of the adoles­ cent that was traditional among the Athenians in the latter sort of relatiol/ship, whether accompanied by sex or not

This paragraph has stick in my mind all through while I am reading the passage. I do understand back then, men are sent to war, they come and be treated like a king by the women's but not teenage boys. Maybe I am looking at this paragraph differently. So far my understanding of the reading is that they are having a celebration and the important people had spoke about interesting poets that became controversial. I think it really depends on the listener how they will understand the speaker

[tresjoli17]

Line 191b

“ Now, since their natural form had been cut in two, each one longed for its own other half, and so they would throw their arms about each other, weaving themselves together, wanting to grow together. In that condition they would die from hunger and general idleness, because they would not do anything apart from each other. Whenever one of the halves died, and one was left, the one that was left still sought another and wove itself together with that. Sometimes the half he met came from a woman, as we’d call her now, sometimes from a man; either way, they kept on dying.”

This paragraph stood out to me because it made sense. When people are attracted to each other they feel drawn to each other by some invisible force. It’s not a feeling that can be forced or contrived with just anybody. Human beings have also learned to cope with the loss of a partner. Whether it be to death or the end of a relationship, most times people move on and find a new partner and try to “weave” their life with theirs. I know that there are some unfortunate exceptions where people either can’t or refuse to move on, but it still doesn’t stop them from being attracted to, or wanting a new relationship with a new partner. (Just my opinion.)

 

My personal experience with “love” would tend to agree with Aristophanes. A lot of pain and longing for that “other half”. I don’t believe that you will wither away and die if you don’t find your soul mate but life would be so much sweeter if you do. The lighter side of love makes me so happy. I love “love” !!! But love is also very destructive and can influence us to do some really shady things. It can also influence you to be the best “you” you can be. I have only ever been in love twice in my life and I am 29. Those experiences have taught me that you should appreciate the time you have with who you think is your other half. Rejection has taught me that no matter who you fall in love with, they don’t have love you back and it’s ok. Don’t dwell on it. Your life is far from over and maybe you should re-evaluate your priorities and  the qualities you want in a partner.

[taniki0108]

""Love " is the name for our pursuit of wholeness, for our desire to be complete."  (193a)

 

I think he's saying that people don't feel whole or feel that their life has any meaning until they experience love.  It's not a statement I would agree with but it's something we see and hear everyday.  People are always looking for love and love comes in many shapes and form, but the one people seek the most is that perfect mate, the one with which they will spend the rest of their life.  For me love is more than that, you need to find passion in something, something that cant return your love, like a piece of art or a music something that you can't get a reaction from and once you understand how to truly love without all the emotions involve you will have a easier time finding that one that makes you whole.  But averall this is a very accurate staement and if people really understand what it means to be "whole" or "complete" they will not make the mistakes they make in giving in to passion.  

 

So if love is the name given to the pursuit of wholeness, Is it ok to say that wholeness brings you happiness? 

[Blanca]

"Is this your heart's desire, then--for the two of you to become parts of the same whole, as near as can be, and never to separate, day or night? Because if that's your desire, I'd like to weld you together and join you into something that is naturally whole, so that the two of you are made into one. Then the two of you would share one life, as long as you lived, because you would be one being".

 

Aristophanes speech includes his theory on Love. He believed that people search for a soul mate or their other half to make them feel whole and complete. I like his idea that if people had love, they can do anything. It shows us alot about human nature and our desire to find that other half to live our lifes with. I believe tha at some point in our lives we will seek for companionship, for that other half and soulmate. The way that Aristophanes talks about loves shows you that it isnt about the outter part of a person but on the inner qualities.

[staceydavidyants]

190d: "I think I have a plan," he said, "that would allow human beings to exist and stop their misbehaving: they will give up being wicked when they lose their strength. So I shall now cut each of them in two. At one stroke they will lose their strength and also become more profitable to us, owing to the increase in their number. They shall walk upright on two legs. But if I find they still run riot and do not keep the peace," he said, ur will cut them in two again, and they'll have to make their way on one leg, hopping." 

Aristophanes is telling the story of how love came to be between a man and a woman as Zeus wanted it to be. He seems to intend for his story of love to not come out to be a comedy, but in reality he is satirizing the entire thing, just as he does in many of his works. He explains that Zeus wanted to cut combined people into two. Basically, cut soul mates into two halves so that they would lose their strength without their other half. In a way, this is true. A person can indeed be weaker without the one they love. Being "cut apart," people look for their other half in order to feel complete. However, Aristophanes goes on to say that Zeus said that if people would still continue to act wicked, he would cut them again and they would have to hop on one leg. This part means to say that he would cut a whole man or a whole woman into two parts which would then lead to certain people having interest in the same sex. Aristophane's description of love makes sense in a mythical sort of way. Greeks myths tend to have explanations for many human instances, and while I obviously understand that this is not how love came about, it still certainly does explain the longing that we have for the opposite sex and our "other half." When we find someone who we find ourselves to get along with and to complete us, we have a longing to be with them and to spend our lives with them, as if we are fulfilled by that person. Being cut in half is obviously too literal of an explanation, but the idea behind it certainly relates to love the way that we feel it.  The question I can ask is how this relates to unrequited love? If we find ourselves in love with a person and we feel passion that they don't, does it mean that the passion truly isn't there and that we have not yet found our "other half" in that person? 

[lrwilen4]

wow! this whole symposium is very thought provoking and insightful, even though main point of the document is the discussion of Love and what is Love i found a statement that was said by Socrates to be extremely profound "People are what they are at the present time, whether they want to be or not by a logical necessity". now, this statement can be applied to love but it really made me think about the truth of a person. people have absolutely no control over who they at an exact moment in time. one can only plan and try to become what they want to be and what they perceive themselves to be in the future, however you do NOT have control of who you are in the present. i am simply boggled by this thought and i think it is very true and strange at the same time.

now, to answer the general question that was posed to the class.... yes i think that love is when we find a missing part to our soul, when we deeply connect to someone and we feel that we are joined together via feeling, morals, or ideas. when we find someone we truly love we feel like we found part of ourselves. 

What spiked my curiosity is not just the words that were spoken but i wonder, where did Aristophanes pull his idea of male and female being one come from? how in the universe did he come up with such a unique idea and creative approach? was it his childhood? a story he heard once? where did it come from? yes this is not philosophical but it is still a question if have. 

[Carmen Wang]

Question: Do you think that Aristophanes’s portrait of painful longing for some missing part of ourselves describes your own personal experiences with Love, passion, or desire?

If we are to give due praise to the god who can give us this blessing, then, we must praise Love. Love does the best that can be done for the time being: he draws us towards what belongs to us. But for the future, Love promises the greatest hope of all: if we treat the gods with due reverence, he will restore to us our original nature, and by healing us, he will make us blessed and happy (193d, Aristophanes Speech 188e-194e)

 In the context of Aristophanes’s speech, he seeks to explain the human’s need, the desire or passion to find love in each other. Originally, humans were made perfect in love, each being completed in their own whole of either one of the three beings: male, female, or androgynous. However, this love was cut off, with humans in halves, which originated upon our wickedness against the gods that so created us. In order for the god of Love to restore such a love that completes us and to heal us to who we fully were, we must continue to worship the gods of sun, earth, moon with reverence. When we do, we will find the exact half that we were originally cut off from. Until then, the god of Love can only draw us or temporarily heal us of the love through sexual intimacy with a half that is not of ourselves, where the relationship may not last because they are not totally in love with each other or belong to one another. Whereas if we continue to praise the gods, love will be completed in us when he restore us with our original own half, where we will not need anything from each other, not even sex, just as long as both are together. This will create a bond of one from two even until death. In comparison to my own personal experience with love, passion, and desire, I can relate this in that I can seemingly try to fill this love and longing in another human being, but it may not be completely met. Not because I have not found the exact half of myself, but this love cannot be completed by humans alone, but completed with God in my life. When I am not right with God, I try to find something or someone else to fill me, but His love is perfected in me just as He created me in the beginning with a right relationship with Him. I was cut off from God similarly to the way Aristophanes’ says the humans were cut off from love because of their own wickedness, so I was from my own sin.

 Of course such experience I relate to is my faith with the Christian God, not the god of Love or any other kind of gods. But my question for everyone is in Aristophanes’s explanation for being complete in love through finding the original half in humans is this: should humans continue to dwell on the longing and desire to find the other half by focusing on the human, or simply look to the god who is willing to give you it all and everything by restoring you with the human?

[olivia.kotz]

There are aspects of Aristophanes description of Love, passion or desire that I find very accurate for many people (although I like to think that with 7 billion people in the world, we all have more than just one "soul mate"). There is a common sense of longing among those who search for love and a common need for making oneself feel whole. However, many people also talk about needing to "love yourself" before loving another and I believe one could apply Aristophanes' description to that as well. I don't believe in making yourself whole through finding love with another person. I think you can improve the good in you through love and magnify certain qualities, but I think you find that sense of wholeness through life and through doing what you love. I believe that love with another person will find its way to you when you've "completed" yourself... by yourself. I don't know if that makes sense, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that I believe we do search for what makes us whole, but I don't think it's another person. There are elements to his explanation for Love, etc that are really beautiful and romantic, but I associate making oneself whole with collecting pieces through experiences and other kinds of relationships, like family and friends, instead of by finding that "matching half."

[arielleraoul]

"How wonderful would it be, dear Agathon, if the foolish were filled with wisdom simply by touching the wise. If only wisdom were like water, which always flows from a full cup into an empty one when we connect them with a piece of yarn-well, then I would consider it the greatest prize to have the chance to lie down next to you. I would soon be overflowing with your wonderful wisdom. My own wisdom is of no account-a shadow in a dream-while yours is bright and radiant and has a splendid future. Why, young as you are, you're so brilliant I could call more than thirty thousand Greeks as witnesses."

This quote stood out to me as I read it. I actually imagined being able to receive wisdom in the way that Socrates describes it here. I pictured how amazing it would be if wisdom flowed through to us(people) this way. What if we were the empty cup and wisdom overflowed us with such little effort, being connected to wisdom by something so fragile as a piece of yarn. Not having to seek wisdom or put much into obtaining it, but just emptying ourselves of ourselves in order to receive true wisdom. The things we could accomplish would be unmeasurable. The thought of the heights we could reach with such wisdom  is hard to imagine. 

I also notice how humble Socrates is here. He seems like someone people would travel very far to hear speak. Everyone seems to admire him and hold him in high regards. He then speaks to someone like Agathon, who has horrible arguments  and terrible logic as though he was the most knowledgable man at the party. I'm not sure if Socrates looked at Agathon and saw who he actually was or if he saw who Agathon could be(his potential). Was he trying to stroke his ego and make him feel good with these statements? Was he joking? 

[Ji Yeon Park]

For some reason, love has been a major topic throughout history. Love is a trend that will never be outdated.

Aristophanes's story was quite interesting. It brings the theory of doppelgangers, clones and soul mates together. Even in the oldest of tales, the story of Adam and Eve, Eve was born from Adam's bone, so in a way, the first male and female were once one person. But this theory brings a thought to mind. In Aristophanes's story, the two were once one person, in a way I feel like that can fall into a form of incest, which is considered forbidden, due to possible birth defects. So does this mean that Aristophanes is implying that maybe we were never meant to find/or be together with the 'other half'?

[racquelallwood1987]

"So such a man or anyone else who has a desire desires what is not at hand and not have, what he is not, and that of which he is in need; for such are the objects of desire and love."
According to Aristodemus, Agathon argues that, people are always in need of things they don't have, or even possible things they don't need at all. It's just simply within human nature. At times we can have everything ones heart desires, but it's never enough because we always seek for more. For instance, you can have your soulmate right before your eyes and not realize just because your heart desires another. In essence, as human beings we are never really satisfied with what we have, who we really are and what we have accomplished.

[vgultyaeva]

I have found it interesting how plato structured his writing. Beuss it was writen as a store the complicated subjeck was easier to understand and see all the points that he was trying to make.

[jossianny(jossy)]

"Each of us, then, is a 'matching half' of a human whole because each was sliced like a flatfish, two out of one, and each of us always seeking the half that matches him"(d.474)

 I completely agree with Aristophanes idea of we always searching for our other half. i do not belief it happened in that way but in some sense it holds a lot of truth. But there is no way in knowing if one day we will find them. what if we are with our other half. How will we know?Can anyone be our "other half"?

[m.inam.gul]

"You see, i think people have entirely missed the power of Love, because if they had grasped it, they'd have built the greatest temples and altars to him and made the greatest sacrifices"

I wonder why Aristophanes, as evident from the above quote, is so passionate about the concept of love. And he clearly advises the doctor, Eryximachus to not take what he is saying as a joke, but to in fact "pass my teaching on to everyone else" This makes it more compelling because Aristophanes was one of the greatest comic poets in ancient times. His wholeness of two people part of his speech begs one to investigate his past. I also wonder why he was in grief about the disappearing of "androgynous", a form made up of both male and female elements. Socrates' speech, was in usual against the norm. He shares what he was told by a wise women, Diotima, that love is not a god at all, rather it is a spiritual connection between people and that which they desire. She reveals to him that love is wisdom and mostly is knowledge of the form beauty. Highly controversial indeed, but it's unfortunate that the people of Athens were narrow minded and weren't open to Socrates' ideologies, which is probably the reason for his trail and his sentenced to death. Another one of my many questions, is that does Diotima even exist? Its sometimes hard to believe that some wise women is giving off her revelation onto Socrates. Is mentioning Diotima a way for Socrates to sugarcoat his own views?      

[Joey Wu]

Quote: "So there's a danger that if we don't keep order before the gods, we'll be split in two again, and then we'll be walking around in the condition of people carved on gravestones in bas-relief, sawn apart between the nostrils, like half dice." (lines 193 a-b) AND "But if i find they still run riot and do not keep peace," he said, "I will cut them in two again, and they'll have to make their way on one leg, hopping." (lines 189 d-e)
        
           This quote captured my understandings of what Aristophanes was trying to say. I think his whole story of how humans were once "Androgynous" meaning a form made up of male and female parts is fascinating and made some sense. In summary, the third species of human beings (Androgynous) got split in half because "they" were being terrible and had too much ambition in strength and power. Therefore, Zeus decided to stop there power by cutting/slicing them into two, like today, female and male. When split into two, both species needed one another to survive. So at the end, we need love and our "other half" to continue the human species. I think that Desire is the key word to what Aristophanes is trying to talk about. We need love in order to have a balance in things and we need one another (male and female) to continue life. We also feel the same way, for example, love for family, or just love in our opposite sex that we care most about. From my own personal experience, i think it is hard to find that "one missing part of ourselves". Even if you are with a person you love, sometimes you just feel like there are some parts you want to change from him/her. I think that love is a way of learning to communicate with one another, accepting flaws, and changing oneself to be the better half.

         This may be a silly question but what will happen if Zeus decided to split humans into two again and we had to walk by hopping? How will the world be? How will life continue on?

[jimborat69]

Based on the reading, I still could not connect that it is a pure love to between a man and boys. I don't think that young children will have such a romantic love. Aside from that I do think that love is something that we have when we meet a person that has something that we don't have and also we have some kind of same likes with that other person. For example you might love someone because the person is out going and you are not. This outgoing person can complete you. You might be an impulsive buyer and your love ones are not so it completes you. On the other hand, you also need someone that appreciates what you like. For example you like traveling and the other person likes traveling. I believe love is just like technology but you need to upgrade the same time with your current partner. I am not saying keeping changing I am saying grow together. I also believe love needs a mutual understanding and give and take like compromise. I don’t believe that there is a perfection relationship or love but compromise goes a long way.

[Amanda Murat]

Having been in love, I do believe we have this mutual feeling of Eros(love)  for one another that cannot be expalined. This  feeling,  as  if one could not  go one living without the other. I see it like 2 forces that form a powerful energy , and this energy is the characteristics of each individual that has expanded to a new found stage in life. A phrase often said by friends and lovers " I dont know what i would do without you in my life" , in comparison to  Aristaphanes claim in (192c) " that when two people who were separated from each other find each other, they never again want to be separated ". With the idea  of Zeus splitting us in half, I compare this to my life story .I  am born alone , Desire for a partner to share my world , once found I am whole and given the chance to be love (eros) desireed for and now able to learn more about myself throught my soullmate.