Reply to Howard his response

[wim]

Hello Howard,

Thanks for your reply. I think that we agree that what is going on in the mind are just words we also could call it conditioning. These words are harmless unless we think that they are important.The whole issue is to see this directly. I think as I said that the teachings were real for K but not for us and therefore we still need to see it them as teachings. I think it would be helpful to consider the teachings as the most important subjects K talked about and they are written down. The intention is that we reflect on them so what was reality for K becomes also reality for us. I feel that the most important thing is that we see the teachings as pointers to reality and certainly not something that is prescriptive. What I too often see in forums is that one is heavily conditioned by the teachings and that people are no longer themselves because of this and this is the reason why I feel that we need to get his right.

[Howard Ward]

Hello again Wim -

Hello Howard,
Thanks for your reply. I think that we agree that what is going on in the mind are just words we also could call it conditioning. These words are harmless unless we think that they are important. The whole issue is to see this directly.

**We appear to be in complete agreement here. What I'm focusing on now is looking at what might give greater emphasis to actually doing this 'direct seeing'.


(Wim) I think as I said that the teachings were real for K but not for us and therefore we still need to see it them as teachings. I think it would be helpful to consider the teachings as the most important subjects K talked about and they are written down. The intention is that we reflect on them so what was reality for K becomes also reality for us. I feel that the most important thing is that we see the teachings as pointers to reality and certainly not something that is prescriptive.

**Yes. But even when we make such suggestions the tendency is to immediately "think about it," rather then to "see" what is actually being suggested.

I've been using some of K's quotes that specifically address this issue in the local dialogues I attend, and it seems that people are reflecting more, rather than immediately jumping in with their opinions.

This following K quote is the one I read at the KFA dialogue this last Tuesday, which I think is a particularly good quote regarding "seeing" versus "talking about what we think we know":

K: "Is it possible to live only with the actual and not with the conceptual? - the conceptual being the belief in God, the ideological, the theoretical, the intellectual formulas. Is it possible only to deal with that which actually is and hence remove conflict altogether?" - Madras 1967

**The question I raise after reading a quote like this is: Do we actually see one another, do we meet human to human, or do we meet as one virtual reality to another virtual reality made up of images and concepts?
Can we see that what we call "our world view" is merely a "conceptual reality" made up of thought imagery, and put that aside and meet each other human to human? Can we see what is actually present, the 'what is', without the screen of conceptual beliefs and opinion?


(Wim) What I too often see in forums is that one is heavily conditioned by the teachings and that people are no longer themselves because of this and this is the reason why I feel that we need to get his right.

**As this seems rather common in Ojai California as well, I suspect that it's common to most Krishnamurti dialogues. And this is why I feel it's important to raise this issue of "seeing what is actually occurring," versus "focusing on the conceptual." Even though people read statements like, "The word is not the thing," the tendency is to think or conceptualize it, rather than 'seeing what is actually occurring," or seeing that whatever the "think/conceptualize" is the non-real, not the actual.
(K: What is actual is what is, and everything else is non-real. - The Only Revolution)

By raising this issue or the actual & the conceptual, and inviting people to see that we tend to focus on the conceptual rather then the actual, it seems to disrupt this habitual pattern of immediately going into conceptual thought.

Regards - Howard W.