Re: [krishnamurti-nz] "Out of this awareness there comes a clarity that is not induced"
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Karsanbhai Umaria
Oct 10, 2012, 8:12:35 PM10/10/12
to krishna...@googlegroups.com
"Out of this awareness there comes a clarity that is not induced,
not put together by the mind."
Is that the mind in Meditation?
Krishna.
On 10/11/12, Clive <clive....@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you sit on the bank of a river after a storm, you see the stream going
> by carrying a great deal of debris. Similarly, you have to watch the
> movement of yourself, following every thought, every feeling, every
> intention, every motive, just watch it. That watching is also listening. It
>
> is being aware with your eyes, with your ears, with your insight, of all
> the values that human beings have created, and by which you are
> conditioned; and it is only this state of total awareness that will end all
>
> seeking.
>
> Please do listen to this. Most of us think that awareness is a mysterious
> something to be practised, and that we should get together day after day to
>
> talk about awareness. Now, you don't come to awareness that way at all. But
>
> if you are aware of outward things - the curve of a road, the shape of a
> tree, the colour of another's dress, the outline of the mountains against a
>
> blue sky, the delicacy of a flower, the pain on the face of a passer-by,
> the ignorance, the envy, the jealousy of others, the beauty of the earth -
> then, seeing all these outward things without condemnation, without choice,
>
> you can ride on the tide of inner awareness. Then you will become aware of
> your own reactions, of your own pettiness, of your own jealousies. From the
>
> outward awareness, you come to the inward; but if you are not aware of the
> outer, you cannot possibly come to the inner.
>
> When there is inward awareness of every activity of your mind and your
> body; when you are aware of your thoughts, of your feelings, both secret
> and open, conscious and unconscious, then out of this awareness there comes
>
> a clarity that is not induced, not put together by the mind. And without
> that clarity, you may do what you will, you may search the heavens, and the
>
> earth, and the deeps, but you will never find out what is true.
>
> Saanen !965 10 public talk
>
> The complete text of this talk is available at:
> http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk
> In fact the texts of ALL Krishnamurti talks and books are available fom
> this site:
> http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/<http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk>
>
> The quote is also in the book:
> Choiceless Awareness
> A study book of the teachings of J Krishnamurti
>
not put together by the mind."
Is that the mind in Meditation?
Krishna.
On 10/11/12, Clive <clive....@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you sit on the bank of a river after a storm, you see the stream going
> by carrying a great deal of debris. Similarly, you have to watch the
> movement of yourself, following every thought, every feeling, every
> intention, every motive, just watch it. That watching is also listening. It
>
> is being aware with your eyes, with your ears, with your insight, of all
> the values that human beings have created, and by which you are
> conditioned; and it is only this state of total awareness that will end all
>
> seeking.
>
> Please do listen to this. Most of us think that awareness is a mysterious
> something to be practised, and that we should get together day after day to
>
> talk about awareness. Now, you don't come to awareness that way at all. But
>
> if you are aware of outward things - the curve of a road, the shape of a
> tree, the colour of another's dress, the outline of the mountains against a
>
> blue sky, the delicacy of a flower, the pain on the face of a passer-by,
> the ignorance, the envy, the jealousy of others, the beauty of the earth -
> then, seeing all these outward things without condemnation, without choice,
>
> you can ride on the tide of inner awareness. Then you will become aware of
> your own reactions, of your own pettiness, of your own jealousies. From the
>
> outward awareness, you come to the inward; but if you are not aware of the
> outer, you cannot possibly come to the inner.
>
> When there is inward awareness of every activity of your mind and your
> body; when you are aware of your thoughts, of your feelings, both secret
> and open, conscious and unconscious, then out of this awareness there comes
>
> a clarity that is not induced, not put together by the mind. And without
> that clarity, you may do what you will, you may search the heavens, and the
>
> earth, and the deeps, but you will never find out what is true.
>
> Saanen !965 10 public talk
>
> The complete text of this talk is available at:
> http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk
> In fact the texts of ALL Krishnamurti talks and books are available fom
> this site:
> http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/<http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk>
>
> The quote is also in the book:
> Choiceless Awareness
> A study book of the teachings of J Krishnamurti
>
Clive Elwell
Oct 11, 2012, 6:48:36 PM10/11/12
to krishna...@googlegroups.com
Krishna asked:
" Is that the mind in Meditation?"
Can what say what is meditation. Can one define it? I am just inquiring into this question.
I have been reading a recent issue of New Scientist which is devoted to the topic “Reality”. There are various articles with various perspectives, and various definitions of reality are offered. I found myself wondering, does all this have any meaning? Is there some absolute meaning to the word 'reality' – and similarly to the word 'meditation'? And if there is, where is it to be found? Is there some ultimate authority that can tell us that is reality, or what is meditation? Is there some final piece of knowledge that we can arrive at that says what it is? Or can there be some experience where we can suddenly say “Yes, this is reality” or “Yes, this is meditation”?
I might offer one definition, or one experience of reality, and you might offer another. Where are we? Where is the common ground?
What is meditation? First of all it is a word, is it not? A word that different people apply to different phenomena. Is there one correct use of the word? And if so, why is that?
Can meditation be known? That is, can it become a thing of knowledge?
I am not trying to be negative about your question, Krishna. Meditation is the 'topic' chosen by the Auckland monthly meeting group for investigation, and it is good to examine this question – examine it without any conclusion (which is the only way anything can be examined). I do have a feel that certain mental states of being are rightly associated with the word 'meditation'. And these states are associated with awareness, and the mind dying to itself.
What do you say? Or what does anyone say?
C
Krishna Umaria
Oct 12, 2012, 3:09:00 AM10/12/12
to krishna...@googlegroups.com
Dear Clive,
"Is that the mind in Meditation?"
That was my Question after reading excerpt of K's talk.
Thank you for your detailed enquiry. I do not think one can define it. Words like love, beauty, compassion, joy , silence, etc. are abstract nouns and can only indicate the awareness one has had and Meditation falls in that category. We shall further enquire when we meet.
Krishna.
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:48:36 +1300
Subject: Re: [krishnamurti-nz] "Out of this awareness there comes a clarity that is not induced"
From: clive....@gmail.com
To: krishna...@googlegroups.com
Thank you for your detailed enquiry. I do not think one can define it. Words like love, beauty, compassion, joy , silence, etc. are abstract nouns and can only indicate the awareness one has had and Meditation falls in that category. We shall further enquire when we meet.
Krishna.
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:48:36 +1300
Subject: Re: [krishnamurti-nz] "Out of this awareness there comes a clarity that is not induced"
From: clive....@gmail.com
To: krishna...@googlegroups.com
sti...@xnet.co.nz
Oct 16, 2012, 8:40:48 PM10/16/12
to krishna...@googlegroups.com
The common ground is our sensory perception. Most of us have 5 (or 6)
senses. Whatever it is that we all perceive through our senses, it is
common to us all. It is the same world we perceive and K says we are that
world. We are not different from what we perceive. If you are going to
investigate into it, start with the senses and watch without judgement.
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:48:36 +1300, Clive Elwell <clive....@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Krishna asked:
>
> _" Is that the mind in Meditation?"_
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Karsanbhai Umaria wrote:
> "Out of this awareness there comes a clarity that is not induced,
> not put together by the mind."
> Is that the mind in Meditation?
>
>
> Krishna.
>
> "Out of this awareness there comes a clarity that is not induced,
> not put together by the mind."
> Is that the mind in Meditation?
>
>
> Krishna.
>
> > In fact the texts of ALL Krishnamurti talks and books are available
> fom
> > this site:
> > http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/ [4]
> fom
> > this site:
> >
> > The quote is also in the book:
> > Choiceless Awareness
> > A study book of the teachings of J Krishnamurti
> >
>
>
>
> Links:
> > The quote is also in the book:
> > Choiceless Awareness
> > A study book of the teachings of J Krishnamurti
> >
>
>
>
> ------
> [1] mailto:krishna...@gmail.com
> [2] mailto:clive....@gmail.com
> [3]
>
http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk
> [4] http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/
> [5]
>
http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk
Clive Elwell
Oct 17, 2012, 6:35:58 PM10/17/12
to krishna...@googlegroups.com
Two questions.
Generally we recognise 5 senses: sight, hearing, touch, smell, taste. What is the 6th one you are referring to?
Are you saying that when I perceive, say, a tree, then I AM that tree?
C
sti...@xnet.co.nz
Oct 17, 2012, 9:45:36 PM10/17/12
to krishna...@googlegroups.com
The 6th sense is regarded as the sense that receives information
independently of the 5 physical senses. Having experienced this myself,
many times... its an irrefutable fact that information comes to humans this
way. Whether its an actual sense organ or just the body tuning into
information vibrations who knows. The tree is part of existence, part of
the world... the whole. On a physical level, it would be insane to say you
are the tree. But on a deeper level, yes , you are the tree. You are the
world.
On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:35:58 +1300, Clive Elwell <clive....@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/ [4] [4]
> > [2] mailto:clive....@gmail.com [6]
> > [3]
> >
>
>
http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk
> [7]
> > [4] http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/ [8]
> > [5]
> >
>
>
http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk
> [9]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:sti...@xnet.co.nz
> [6] mailto:clive....@gmail.com
> [7]
>
http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk
> [8] http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/
> [9]
>
http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk
independently of the 5 physical senses. Having experienced this myself,
many times... its an irrefutable fact that information comes to humans this
way. Whether its an actual sense organ or just the body tuning into
information vibrations who knows. The tree is part of existence, part of
the world... the whole. On a physical level, it would be insane to say you
are the tree. But on a deeper level, yes , you are the tree. You are the
world.
On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:35:58 +1300, Clive Elwell <clive....@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Two questions.
> Generally we recognise 5 senses: sight, hearing, touch, smell, taste.
> What is the 6th one you are referring to?
> Are you saying that when I perceive, say, a tree, then I AM that tree?
> C
>
> Generally we recognise 5 senses: sight, hearing, touch, smell, taste.
> What is the 6th one you are referring to?
> Are you saying that when I perceive, say, a tree, then I AM that tree?
> C
>
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 1:40 PM, wrote:
>
> The common ground is our sensory perception. Most of us have 5 (or 6)
> senses. Whatever it is that we all perceive through our senses, it is
> common to us all. It is the same world we perceive and K says we are
> that
> world. We are not different from what we perceive. If you are going to
> investigate into it, start with the senses and watch without judgement.
>
> On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:48:36 +1300, Clive Elwell
>
> The common ground is our sensory perception. Most of us have 5 (or 6)
> senses. Whatever it is that we all perceive through our senses, it is
> common to us all. It is the same world we perceive and K says we are
> that
> world. We are not different from what we perceive. If you are going to
> investigate into it, start with the senses and watch without judgement.
>
> On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:48:36 +1300, Clive Elwell
> > >
> > > The quote is also in the book:
> > > Choiceless Awareness
> > > A study book of the teachings of J Krishnamurti
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Links:
> > ------
> > [1] mailto:krishna...@gmail.com [5]
> > > The quote is also in the book:
> > > Choiceless Awareness
> > > A study book of the teachings of J Krishnamurti
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Links:
> > ------
> > [2] mailto:clive....@gmail.com [6]
> > [3]
> >
>
>
http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk
> [7]
> > [4] http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/ [8]
> > [5]
> >
>
>
http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk
> [9]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:sti...@xnet.co.nz
> [2] mailto:clive....@gmail.com
> [3]
>
http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk
> [4] http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/
> [5] mailto:krishna...@gmail.com
> [3]
>
http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk
> [4] http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/
> [6] mailto:clive....@gmail.com
> [7]
>
http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk
> [8] http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/
> [9]
>
http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1965/1965-08-01-jiddu-krishnamurti-10th-public-talk
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