Material - idea of position
Krishna G Misra
From: "Krishna G Misra" <qualit...@gmail.com>
Date: 02/02/2016 2:11 pm
Subject: Material - idea of position
To: <Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com>
Cc:
Padarth or substance ( value by position)
- science of ego in contemporary reality
Men of substance are those who sit in positions given to them by an organization. For example, a judge is a man of substance. He is valued only as long as he is a sitting judge. Once he is out of that position, he, the same person is a man without a substance. His any interpretation of Indian constitution is nothing more than a gospel. On the other hand, any idiot can be a man of substance because, it is not a man himself but the organization which chose him in that position.
In sanscrit, there is a term called PadArth of which English equivalent is Substance. Arth means gravity or importance and Pad means position or seat in the office or any place. A judge when he is in court or his jurisdiction is different than the same judge walking on the street of another country. Weight of a stone at the earth is 7 kg and same stone taken at moon is just 1 kg. This is same case with a judge who is important in courtroom but has no importance outside it. This artificial property of an object in a given position is called substance. All of us have this substance but it is not our innate self but external bias.
There was a person in India by name Katju. He once occupied seat of judge in an Indian court. He was then a man of substance ( padarth or important by position). But after his retirement, he continued with an illusion that he indeed has some merit of his own. He started writing on Facebook and was in no time, dragged by TV media where he got bash of his life. He ran away like a dog hunted by leopards. Shelter of courts did not work. His mistake was not realizing the truth that how men without substance are no less important. I hope he will sooner or later would realize the truth, value independence or liberty, and qualify being a man without any substance. He will be then a free or liberated human.
Man without any substance are liberated. They do not live in any illusion. They realize the truth or weightlessness of the self. A stone is a weightless object and it by chance is measured as 7 kg on earth and 1 kg on moon and 0 kg in a place where gravity is absent. Same stone assumes weight of the earth when it is a part of the earth. This way, idea of substance or ego or reality of relationship is thus stated.
Morality is substance but character is the truth. Here is description of their salient features.
Morality is a term used for position in an organization. Police, judges or thieves are legal status of a person given by organization. Each of these legal or organizational identities are padarth or substantial. For this reason, their properties are not their own but externally crafted. This crafting is called mural or sculpture in matter and is not free to do things it desires by own self. This external aura which is not innate in self is called morality. Judge or police or thieves have their morality ( and obliged to conform to organizational prejudices).
Character is not morality. Character is natural and is free to change at will. There is no bondage from any external agency or organization. India believed in character. Ram charit manas is about character of RAM and not about his different moralities as a king or a military strategist or any organizational positions. A man of character is not morally bounded and no person who is morally bounded can have a right of a character.
Regards
Sure Sir, will call him tomorrow..
Sent from my iPhone 6 PlusSee trail mail of 2nd Jan to Stan
RegardsOn 03/01/2016 7:40 pm, "Bharat Somal" <bharat....@gmail.com> wrote:Kindly send me his number...
Sent from my iPhone 6 PlusDear Bharat
Yogi have no interest to prove anything but can inspire others to learn and realize their self. In his opinion, the ability is in all of us but our ignorance is a defense. Dube ji is available on phone and you can call.He is available for any study and if possible these scientists can understand the reproducible process in others. In due course, there will come an opportunity whether in India or USA.
I have tried it but did not succeed in control of senses and thoughts for long. This needs a life without any commitment or bondage which is a stopper. My life is filled by schedules and mind is not at rest. Body is therefore troubled and needs rest or sleep and work and so on.
Regards
On 03/01/2016 7:15 pm, "Bharat Somal" <bharat....@gmail.com> wrote:The Fire Yogi,Again, will pay for his airfare to US AND BACK IF SOMEONE AGREE FOR TESTING...."Through the mastery of meditation, the Yogi is able to resonate with the qualities of kinetic energy. His aura seem to be protecting him." said Dr. E.F. Block, Neurologist, Austin, TexasThanksBharatSent from my iPhone 6 PlusMany thanks,3-4 days makes a lot more sense than > 20 days.On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 9:36 PM, Krishna G Misra <qualit...@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Stan
India number of Shri Dube . is 8795240828
I have talked with him today morning about this. He says that body can live without food and water by effort of prana or awareness by which waste of energy in heating up and other bodily function is minimized. This he can do and by utilizing prana, he can survive in body at very minimum activity for a longer time. He will need to try it in conditions under observation. Technically, the parameters of heart and other bodily function can operate at minimum level.
Without food and water, body can live for about 3 to 4 days at normal activity but it stops functioning after wards. This is called death and at this state, body becomes like plastic and the person is although aware but cannot utilize the body. Those who are unaware of prana, cannot sustain their survival in body.
He says that body is a natural equipment and needs some kind of fuel to run it. Body is not a simple equipment and is yet unknown to a large extent. Different fuels offer different operating parameters in body and so is longevity. Prana is yet an unknown fuel to most of us. Science can understand it ( prana) because these are in physical system. This will help longevity in humans and freedom from usual living.
There should be a controlled test for him with step by step so that process is understood scientifically with reproducible result in another person. His goal is not science but truth and these experiences are on a way.
I am in lookout for a hospital and research institution in India for data on him and his ability and limits of processes to control life in the body.
Regards
Dear Krishna,I wouldn't want to ask Sri Satya Dube to try going without food or water for 70 years. But would he be willing to try it for say 17 days? That is much less than 70 years but somewhat more than 3 days. Please ask him how many days he is willing to go without any food and water. Ifthanks,StanOn Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 7:50 PM, Krishna G Misra <qualit...@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Stan
Sri Satya Dube is just like us and is of 25 years and lived without water and food for 3 days when he was with me. His face and body appeared just fine. On my request, he broke the fast and could not continue.His pursuit is to realize the self which is independent of body and mind and yet can use it at will.
You can certainly learn the processes of life and modified physical needs of body. His email and phone are available. Benaras Hindu university can be a right cooperation partner for this.
Regards
On 03/01/2016 9:05 am, "Stanley A. KLEIN" <skl...@berkeley.edu> wrote:Hi All,I just now noticed that this list has gotten severely truncated.So let me ask Krisha whether he agrees with Bharat and Durgashanakar that a person can live for 70 years without food and water. That is a lot more than 3 days and would indeed be most impressive.thanks,StanOn Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 7:13 PM, Krishna G Misra <qualit...@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Stan and Durga ji
Consciousness is practiced by breaking out from contemporary reality. Whenever thoughts start to arise, consciousness sleeps. Observer who is limited by thoughts cannot observe independently. Our thought programming at subconscious level has created certain bias including our own logic which justify these.Meditation is unlike scientific investigation. Meditation is an act of thoughtless awareness or consciousness. Meditation is absense of effort which directs any thoughts. Consciousness cannot be realized by thoughts or by staying in unconscious state. That is why it is called self realization.
The science for whatever reason has an empirical basis or dependency on measurement. It defines time also by a measurement or by any relative motion in reality. Interesting to know that measurement exists because of zero but zero is non real and non empirical or absolute number. And is the only reference point of all reality or real numbers 1 2 3. If zero changes its place, sequences in number would change and past become future and future past. Reality is all perceptual and individual and not sustain independently.
Time is a measure of change. Death is end of changes including idea of the time. Death is end of change and yet observer is never dead. Argument of living and dead are merely perception, only by recognition of changes.
Knowing the absolute is about knowing the changeless. Changes are in reality or relativity but absolute is non real. Absolute is quantum and has no idea of distances or any differences. Science is although empirical or real but those who meditate at the truth see the laws of nature unchanging, or timeless or absolute.
Body including our senses are real but soul is absolute. By meditation, person stays in thoughtless awareness and in that situation, body takes care of itself. I have seen Sri Satya Prakash live without food or water for three days and no effect on his face or body function. He realized the truth of self and yet trying to experience self. He is approximately 25 years.
Purpose of science is good but beyond a point all 'man made" tools of observer fail and only instrument that remains is the intellect and body. Expectation and prejudices also end because observer is then free from these. This is yoga or higher inquiry.
Regards
On 03/01/2016 5:54 am, "Durgashanker Nagda" <nag...@yahoo.com> wrote:Thanks, Stan. I appreciate your interest in helping find the TRUTH. Is seeing not believing? But I am sure experiencing is believing, as if you experience it yourself you would surely believe.Can you write your contact phone so that we can talk about it? Or please call me at 321-422-4346, I am on East course -New York DST.Dr. K. G. Misra personally knows a gentleman by name Mr. Satya Prakash Dubey, in Benaras (Varanasi), India who would like to appear before the scientists -medical people, etc. to ascertain your research on SCIENCE AND SPIRITUALITY OR CONSCIOUSNESS.With best wishes for your health and happiness, and regards, Sincerely, DSHari AUMDedicated to Service with Love.The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain CONFIDENTIAL material. If you receive this material/information in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy the material/information.
From: Stanley A. KLEIN <skl...@berkeley.edu>
To: Bharat Somal <bharat....@gmail.com>
Cc: Online Sadhu Sanga <Online_Sa...@googlegroups.com>; edi...@scienceandscientist.org; Kalluri Rao <ksrb...@gmail.com>; Lee Spector <lspe...@hampshire.edu>; Durgashanker Nagda <nag...@yahoo.com>; dee...@yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2016 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: Test Subject- Person who lives without food and water for 70 yrs and still living
If there are lots of people on this list who believe it is possible to live for 70 years without eating or drinking then let's hear from you. If there are a substantial number I'd be happy help organize raising funds to test it in a controlled manner in the US or India or where ever is convenient. The testing would need to be more available to scrutiny than I suspect the previous tests had been.So let's first hear from people on this list who believe in that claim. So far we have one person.StanOn Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Bharat Somal <bharat....@gmail.com> wrote:Hi Stan,What about performing tests on this person? Do we have any research institute in USA which can perform testing under controlled conditions?ThanksBharat
Sent from my iPhone 6 PlusI see that Brian Josephson is in the article as a possible supporter of the man who survives fine without having any food or water. Could anyone on this list knows Josephson send him an email asking whether he believes this is possible.thanksStanOn Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Bharat Somal <bharat....@gmail.com> wrote:All,This person lived more than 70 years without eating drinking...Based on request from Durga ji, to all scientists one can request the person in below video as test Subject.ThanksBharatSent from my iPhone 6 PlusDear Lee and Kalluri,
Thanks for your interesting comments.
Lee - Why would *that* (a common solution to two or more apparently different problems), rather than something else, be connected to qualia? Just because it's another mystery?
Vic - Yes. In general, if you have developed a new technique or a new concept, it’s a good idea to see what can be done with it. Metaphorically, it’s like finding a key at home and seeing which of those unusable locks it fits. The same holds for problems but in this case each problem is the key to the other. For example, we have done it (as have others, but better), to the problems of ‘why is there so much structure in cells?’, ‘why do so many metabolic enzymes interact with the cytoskeleton?’ and ‘how do cells obtain coherent phenotypes?’ And it’s fun to see if one’s favourite problem can be related to the problem of qualia.
Lee - How could you tell if you are right about the purported connection to qualia, even in principle? What good does it do to invoke qualia here? You note that "Incidentally, if one could only detect qualia experimentally, it would be fun to compare wild type bacteria with their L-form derivatives which manage to grow despite the deletion of ftsZ." Indeed it would be fun to do this and many other experiments, if one could detect qualia experimentally. But if one can't, then I'm struggling to understand how any of these speculations about connections to qualia can be useful at all. Can you outline a scenario in which any of these speculations could have a tangible payoff?
Vic - If I understand correctly, you are asking with each of these questions what testable predictions follow from the hypothesis that bacteria have feelings and can influence ours? I don’t think a hypothesis has to have testable predictions to be of value, still, I’ll have a go (though it is a bit of a tall order because I don’t have one of Chalmer’s qualia-detectors). Let’s suppose that cell division is indeed associated with some feeling at the level of the cell and at the level of the cell population. We can both inhibit and stimulate cell division in E. coli by various treatments. In principle, we should be able to do this simultaneously to a large fraction of the bacteria in the guts of human volunteers (with the appropriate placebos for the added drugs). The participants might then report on their sensations. Of course, we would run into all sorts of difficulties because there are many chemical (and physical) interactions between the microbiome and the host in both directions. So maybe one should grow the bacteria in a giant incubator and have our human subjects (as the qualia-detectors) next to it whilst we interfere with cell division. One of the problems there is that the bacteria in this incubator would not be the richly interconnected population that constitutes the bacterial ‘organ’ in the gut. Another problem is that a ‘Faraday cage’ for qualia might be necessary (whatever that might be).
Lee - You find the possibility that your laptop might suffer to be unpleasant, but what about the possibility that your laptop might feel joy? Could you ever have more evidence for one than the other?
Vic - Your questions are in response to “One possibility would be that qualia result as epiphenomena from all competitive coherence processes irrespective of their physical nature. (I find this an unpleasant possibility because it may mean that my laptop suffers)”. I agree that this hypothesis would also mean my laptop might feel joy (but I don’t like that possibility either). As regards evidence for joy rather than suffering, I think the question with respect to competitive coherence is whether there are different patterns of connectivity – or perhaps changes to these patterns – that might be associated with different qualia. With the Coco program, it would be possible (in principle), to characterise the changes in connectivity that accompany it giving the right responses (via being rewarded) and giving the wrong responses (via being punished). This might give helpful pointers to those working in neuroscience (but who are probably far past needing them).
Lee - I think that your comment about bacteria lyophilization is really helpful here. Surely bacteria count as life, and freeze dried bacteria are not living, so we can indeed "kickstart a non-living system and bring it back to life." Revivification of more complex organisms that have stopped living for different reasons may require more engineering effort, but I don't see the basis for an argument that it would be impossible in principle. PLUS from Kalluri “I am tempted to extend the discussion of Vic whether the frozen bacteria (lyophilized) are dead. I do not think so. They are only in a state of suspended living, I think. Many a times the scientists freeze the living material for months at very low temperatures -80,100 or below (this I have done myself many times) and reuse the material for experiments at a later date”.
Vic - For what it’s worth, my collaborators and I see cells (and biological systems at other scales) as a mixture of non-equilibrium and quasi-equilibrium structures appropriate for the two attractors of growth and survival. Many bacterial cells have to travel between these attractors. So one might view lyophilised bacteria as essentially quasi-equilibrium structures that can be used to restart (like spores do). There is also the related question of whether viruses and bacteriophages are alive. From the equilibrium/non-equilibrium point of view, they are equilibrium structures at the level of the living population. There is a good discussion to be had about dormant cells, viable but not cultivatable cells, and DNA-less cells, which is a big area but which is not my field.
All the best,
Vic
On Saturday, January 2, 2016 02:44 AM CAT, Lee Spector <lspe...@hampshire.edu> wrote:Dear Vic,Each time you speculate about a connection to qualia here, I think:- Why would *that*, rather than something else, be connected to qualia? Just because it's another mystery?- How could you tell if you are right about the purported connection to qualia, even in principle?- What good does it do to invoke qualia here?You note that "Incidentally, if one could only detect qualia experimentally, it would be fun to compare wild type bacteria with their L-form derivatives which manage to grow despite the deletion of ftsZ." Indeed it would be fun to do this and many other experiments, if one could detect qualia experimentally. But if one can't, then I'm struggling to understand how any of these speculations about connections to qualia can be useful at all. Can you outline a scenario in which any of these speculations could have a tangible payoff?Two other quick comments:- You find the possibility that your laptop might suffer to be unpleasant, but what about the possibility that your laptop might feel joy? Could you ever have more evidence for one than the other?- I think that your comment about bacteria lyophilization is really helpful here. Surely bacteria count as life, and freeze dried bacteria are not living, so we can indeed "kickstart a non-living system and bring it back to life." Revivification of more complex organisms that have stopped living for different reasons may require more engineering effort, but I don't see the basis for an argument that it would be impossible in principle.-LeeOn Jan 1, 2016, at 9:10 AM, Victor Norris <victor...@univ-rouen.fr> wrote:Dear moderators,Would you put the following response on the list? I have tried and failed a couple of times.Best wishes,VicDear All,Stimulated by comments from Stan Klein about bacteria, I would like to revisit, as a kind of microbiologist, emails from Stuart Hameroff, Stu Kauffman, Bhakti Shanta and others (and I would be grateful if real microbiologists in this forum would correct my mistakes).There is no reason to suppose that bacterial cells are, pound for pound, any simpler than our cells. Indeed, given the selective pressure on them to concentrate the maximum of functions in the minimum of mass, they may be more complex (just as my laptop is more complex per unit mass than the first – very big – computers and perhaps modern mainframes) – of course, we can argue about the meanings of ‘complexity’. I suggested a few years ago that individual bacteria might have subjective experiences and I see that Bhakti Shanta writes in his paper on the ‘Vedantic view’ that “Consciousness is ubiquitous in all living organisms, starting from bacteria to human beings.” So the possibility of bacterial qualia should be within the remit of this forum. Many of us think that bacteria were here first, that they made our modern world and that they will still be here when our species has long gone. Bacteria make up a substantial portion of the biomass and, whilst it is not clear how much 10.3389/fmicb.2015.01260 , it has been estimated that there are 10^30 bacteria and 10^31 phages in the world and proposed that they form a ‘super-organism’. How then might one approach the question of bacteria qualia at the levels of the individual bacterium and of the super-organism?Hawking's joke that "[Penrose's] argument seemed to be that consciousness is a mystery and quantum gravity is another mystery so they must be related" actually highlights the fact that looking for a common solution to two or more apparently different problems can be very productive. In this spirit, one might consider a few fundamental problems in microbiology and see where they take us. One of these problems is how cells generate reproducible, COHERENT phenotypes out of the hyper-astronomical number of phenotypes that should result from the combinations of the big number of phenotype determinants, which include genes, RNA, proteins, lipids, metabolites, and inorganic ions (to adapt slightly what Stu Kauffman says in ‘At Home In the Universe’). Another of these problems is the regulation of the bacterial cell cycle. Although enormous progress has been made towards solving both problems, I have argued that something essential is still missing. Could this involve qualia in some way?Firstly, Stuart Hameroff talks about the bacterial ‘tubulin’, FtsZ. It would be great if FtsZ were to form microtubules but, as far as I know, there is no evidence to suggest that it does (even though I have speculated that it might do transiently during the act of cell division, an event so momentous that it might be associated with a feeling). Stuart has, however, generalised, the generation of (proto)-consciousness to pi resonance in proteins containing aromatic residues in the right positions. This opens up all sorts of possibilities including the one that extended, intracellular, functional assemblies of molecules and macromolecules (which a few of us call ‘hyperstructures’) might, in the Penrose-Hameroff hypothesis, be associated with qualia. The nature of the qualia might then vary with the composition of the hyperstructure. For example, FtsZ is one of the major constituents of the division hyperstructure or divisome; the dynamics of this hyperstructure is altered by the activity-dependent binding of a metabolic enzyme to FtsZ in the phenomenon termed ‘nutrient sensing’ by Petra Levin’s group, e.g., Weart et al., Cell 130: 335-47 (for what it’s worth Judit Ovadi and I have extended this concept to eukaryotes). Note that this sensing is one way to generate coherent phenotypes. In the context of bacterial cognition, Bhakti Shanta cites Eshel Ben Jacob’s work. Eshel has a nice picture of a morphological change within a bacterial colony that he interprets as the bacteria performing a detour to avoid a fungus (Biofilms 1: 239–263). One might speculate this morphological change involves an altered pattern of cell division, the process in which FtsZ is a central player and hence, perhaps, qualia. Incidentally, if one could only detect qualia experimentally, it would be fun to compare wild type bacteria with their L-form derivatives which manage to grow despite the deletion of ftsZ.In the case of a possible consciousness at the level of the super-organism, could the work of Derek Lovley on the pili that connect different bacteria be relevant? He writes, for example, “Several lines of evidence suggest that G. sulfurreducens pili have a metallic-like conductivity similar to that of synthetic organic metals, which might be attributed to overlapping pi-pi orbitals of aromatic constituents” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3604773/Secondly, Bhakti Shanta mentions that humans are in fact ecosystems that have ten times as many bacterial cells as human ones (though the masses are of course different). The exploding field of microbial endocrinology is showing how such bacteria affect our health. Mark Lyte, a pioneer in the field, is one of those proposing that bacteria can actually affect our emotions http://www.tandfonline.com/loi/kgmi20#.Vn68yoRunIUOne might take this further. Suppose that the bacterial super-organism is really our Master and our qualia only make sense at this level (after all, by the standard of our civilised species, bacteria are superior to us insofar as they kill millions of us each year whilst adapting to and surviving the worst that we can do to them). Given that this super-organism has been around for billions of years, one might question whether ‘global consciousness’ and global complexity are really increasing (though we might need a long debate about the meaning and quantification of ‘complexity’). One might question the hubris that leads us to think that we are at the summit. From the bacterial point of view, one of the primary functions of humans is to feed them and drop them off in different places.Thirdly, Stu Kauffman writes “POSSIBLES, as in superpositions, which do NOT obey the law of the excluded middle nor non contradiction, and Actuals which obey those laws. If measurement is real, it takes a quantum system in superposition, or Feynman’s sum over all POSSIBLE ways or pathways, to an Actual i.e. from something that does NOT obey the law of excluded middle, hence is NOT realist as Zeilinger is showing experimentally, to something that does” and again in his paper “When the electron is measured and found to be spin down, it is now an Actual that obeys the law of the excluded middle, hence is a new actual that creates new possibles”. Although I struggle with the physics and may have misunderstood totally, I wonder whether there is a similarity between Stu’s ideas and the idea of competitive coherence, which characterises biological systems at all scales (or so I would like to think). Briefly, the idea is that competitive coherence is responsible for generating the active subsets of elements that determine the behaviour of the system. In the case of a bacterium, this active subset would include expressed genes along with the enzymes that are actually catalysing reactions (i.e., the active subset corresponds to the phenotype); in the case of a big company, this subset would include the Board members.The concept of competitive coherence is based on the way a biological system must maintain both the temporal continuity of the composition of its active subset via a Next process and the coherence of this active subset (with respect to the inside and outside environments) via a Now process. In an in silico implementation of this concept, Coco, the state of a system at time n + 1 is determined by a competition for the recruitment of elements to the active subset between the Next process, which is based on its state at time n, and the Now process, which is based on the developing n + 1 state itself http://www.hindawi.com/journals/aans/2012/703878/ . Coco shows first that competitive coherence can lead to a network of connections that constitutes learning and second that this network of connections is robust with respect to noise and is self-perpetuating. Coco has some similarity with Stu’s (N,k) model insofar as it is based on connectivity (k) though there are many important differences (for example, Coco has two sorts of connectivity and can learn with an average connectivity of 40). I have speculated that, in brains, the generation of a particular thought corresponds to the generation of a particular active subset of neurones via competitive coherence. It is tempting to suggest that the physical mechanism underlying competitive coherence somehow involves qualia. One possibility would be that qualia result as epiphenomena from all competitive coherence processes irrespective of their physical nature (I find this an unpleasant possibility because it may mean that my laptop suffers). A different possibility is that in biological systems the connectivities that underpin competitive coherence involve qualia in the type of quantum mechanical ways that Stan Klein and Stu Kauffman suggest. For example, the elements in Coco with their connections to other elements may correspond to the Possibles that Stu discusses: if so, the recruitment of an element to the active subset (which might be termed a ‘measurement’) would then correspond to it becoming an Actual. These possibilities again make me wonder whether bacteria, super-organisms and even multi-nationals have feelings.Three other comments.1/ It might be fun to do Stu’s ‘fruit fly and ether’ experiment with bacteria by counter-selecting those that grow (e.g., with penicillin).2/ In his discussion of Plato, Bob Wallace said that “Reality is a matter of degree.” Since Madonna is more connected to other people than, it could be argued that she is more real. Perhaps, this question could be approached via the Coco program in which the number and pattern of the connections of an element (to other elements) determine the probability that it will be become part of the active subset at some stage and hence become ‘real’.3/ Jeremy Christian says that one can “kickstart a non-living system and bring it back to life” but that one cannot do this for a living system. One can lyophilise bacteria and then revive them after many years. Do they count as ‘non-living’ in the lyophilised state?All the best,Vic------------------------------Bhakti Niskama Shanta (2015) Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view, Communicative & Integrative Biology, 8:5, e1085138; DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138'Science and Scientist' Annual Conference Serieshttp://scsiscs.org/conferenceSupport & Participate in theScientific Sankirtan Seva: http://scienceandscientist.org/donateDownload NewsletterThe Harmonizerhttp://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizerBhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & SciencePrinceton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.orgSri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.orgDarwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/DarwinJoin Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/about/#instructionsSadhu-Sanga MP3s: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsangaContact Us: http://scsiscs.org/contact-------------------------------You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. 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