OGRE to CroquetSDK?
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gettimothy
Dec 20, 2010, 5:01:36 PM12/20/10
to Krestianstvo
Good afternoon.
I am using your port of CroquetSDK on squeak 4. (thank you for the
port, btw)
I am new to Smalltalk and have developed one project in Seaside. I am
now "hooked" on the Smalltalk way of doing things, it is much better
than Java or C++ etc.
My current employer develops virtual worlds (client server based) in C+
+ and I am very interested in developing a smalltalk version of our
product.
However, I am completely new to "game" programming and will be
educating myself on these techniques.
While showing your Croquet functionality to one of my bosses, he
mentioned he really liked the peer-to-peer functionality, however he
said the graphics where primitive compared to what our clients expect.
Currently our C++ product uses the OGRE http://www.ogre3d.org/
Graphics engine.
I noticed that the SampleWorld etc, in the Croquet project accesses
OpenGL directory.
It is my suspicion that the use of OGRE makes more advanced visual
effects easier to code than just straight OpenGL. (Again, I am not a
graphics coder, yet)
So, I am asking your opinion. Do you think a smalltalk interface to
the OGRE engine would make sense?
Would such a thing help your development of your work in Krestianstvo?
Sincerely,
__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__m_u_r_r_a_y__
I am using your port of CroquetSDK on squeak 4. (thank you for the
port, btw)
I am new to Smalltalk and have developed one project in Seaside. I am
now "hooked" on the Smalltalk way of doing things, it is much better
than Java or C++ etc.
My current employer develops virtual worlds (client server based) in C+
+ and I am very interested in developing a smalltalk version of our
product.
However, I am completely new to "game" programming and will be
educating myself on these techniques.
While showing your Croquet functionality to one of my bosses, he
mentioned he really liked the peer-to-peer functionality, however he
said the graphics where primitive compared to what our clients expect.
Currently our C++ product uses the OGRE http://www.ogre3d.org/
Graphics engine.
I noticed that the SampleWorld etc, in the Croquet project accesses
OpenGL directory.
It is my suspicion that the use of OGRE makes more advanced visual
effects easier to code than just straight OpenGL. (Again, I am not a
graphics coder, yet)
So, I am asking your opinion. Do you think a smalltalk interface to
the OGRE engine would make sense?
Would such a thing help your development of your work in Krestianstvo?
Sincerely,
__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__m_u_r_r_a_y__
Nikolay Suslov
Dec 24, 2010, 8:14:36 AM12/24/10
to Krestianstvo
Hello,
On Dec 21, 1:01 am, gettimothy <gettimo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good afternoon.
>
> I am using your port of CroquetSDK on squeak 4. (thank you for the
> port, btw)
Great to hear about that!
> I am new to Smalltalk and have developed one project in Seaside. I am
> now "hooked" on the Smalltalk way of doing things, it is much better
> than Java or C++ etc.
>
> My current employer develops virtual worlds (client server based) in C+
> + and I am very interested in developing a smalltalk version of our
> product.
>
> However, I am completely new to "game" programming and will be
> educating myself on these techniques.
>
> While showing your Croquet functionality to one of my bosses, he
> mentioned he really liked the peer-to-peer functionality, however he
> said the graphics where primitive compared to what our clients expect.
>
> Currently our C++ product uses the OGREhttp://www.ogre3d.org/
starting from the scene graph library to physics engine should be
aware of this. The main part of it is an identical replica's state of
the Croquet island, which should still remain the same on all
participants during the collaboration process. And yes for
visualization Croquet highly uses OpenGL, but it strictly isolates
rendering process from the computations being held in all island
replicas. That is why, the scene graph (which is used in replication)
in Croquet is developed just in Smalltalk, and not uses any of 3d
available graphic libraries. Only OpenGL library is used through FFI
calls, which are isolated from the replication process. For all
computational math the tested MathPlugin primitive is used, also for
getting the identical state during calculus. In the earlier releases
of Croquet (Jasmine), there were an attempts to have an ODE physic
engine, but it causes the destroying of an identical state of the
replica.
So, yes, Croquet is needed in such engine like OGRE, to have a simple
language interface for programming high quality graphics. But,
thinking, that it couldn't be doing just straightforward, as making
OGRE being developed in C++ as a foreign library for Croquet. It is
more like, that it should be ported to Smalltalk language entirely or
partly, according to the Croquet philosophy. There was an attempt to
have OGRE library as an external library just for Squeak (http://
tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/squeak/message/154726), but not for
Croquet.
Best regards,
NIkolay
> Sincerely,
>
> __t_i_m_o_t_h_y__m_u_r_r_a_y__
On Dec 21, 1:01 am, gettimothy <gettimo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good afternoon.
>
> I am using your port of CroquetSDK on squeak 4. (thank you for the
> port, btw)
> I am new to Smalltalk and have developed one project in Seaside. I am
> now "hooked" on the Smalltalk way of doing things, it is much better
> than Java or C++ etc.
>
> My current employer develops virtual worlds (client server based) in C+
> + and I am very interested in developing a smalltalk version of our
> product.
>
> However, I am completely new to "game" programming and will be
> educating myself on these techniques.
>
> While showing your Croquet functionality to one of my bosses, he
> mentioned he really liked the peer-to-peer functionality, however he
> said the graphics where primitive compared to what our clients expect.
>
> Graphics engine.
>
> I noticed that the SampleWorld etc, in the Croquet project accesses
> OpenGL directory.
>
> It is my suspicion that the use of OGRE makes more advanced visual
> effects easier to code than just straight OpenGL. (Again, I am not a
> graphics coder, yet)
>
> So, I am asking your opinion. Do you think a smalltalk interface to
> the OGRE engine would make sense?
>
> Would such a thing help your development of your work in Krestianstvo?
>
Yes, at first Croquet is about collaboration, and so everything
>
> I noticed that the SampleWorld etc, in the Croquet project accesses
> OpenGL directory.
>
> It is my suspicion that the use of OGRE makes more advanced visual
> effects easier to code than just straight OpenGL. (Again, I am not a
> graphics coder, yet)
>
> So, I am asking your opinion. Do you think a smalltalk interface to
> the OGRE engine would make sense?
>
> Would such a thing help your development of your work in Krestianstvo?
>
starting from the scene graph library to physics engine should be
aware of this. The main part of it is an identical replica's state of
the Croquet island, which should still remain the same on all
participants during the collaboration process. And yes for
visualization Croquet highly uses OpenGL, but it strictly isolates
rendering process from the computations being held in all island
replicas. That is why, the scene graph (which is used in replication)
in Croquet is developed just in Smalltalk, and not uses any of 3d
available graphic libraries. Only OpenGL library is used through FFI
calls, which are isolated from the replication process. For all
computational math the tested MathPlugin primitive is used, also for
getting the identical state during calculus. In the earlier releases
of Croquet (Jasmine), there were an attempts to have an ODE physic
engine, but it causes the destroying of an identical state of the
replica.
So, yes, Croquet is needed in such engine like OGRE, to have a simple
language interface for programming high quality graphics. But,
thinking, that it couldn't be doing just straightforward, as making
OGRE being developed in C++ as a foreign library for Croquet. It is
more like, that it should be ported to Smalltalk language entirely or
partly, according to the Croquet philosophy. There was an attempt to
have OGRE library as an external library just for Squeak (http://
tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/squeak/message/154726), but not for
Croquet.
Best regards,
NIkolay
> Sincerely,
>
> __t_i_m_o_t_h_y__m_u_r_r_a_y__
Timothy Murray
Dec 24, 2010, 10:43:23 AM12/24/10
to kresti...@googlegroups.com, Tim Murray
Thank you NIkolay,
That answers my question perfectly.
I have an OpenGL book being delivered from Amazon. I will be working through that and as I do, I will replicate the techniques in Smalltalk as this will provide me familiarity with the Smalltalk interface to OpenGL.
At that point, I will start studying the Ogre API and write "duplicate" Smalltalk functionality that will act as a wrapper on the Smalltalk OpenGL implementation without calling the underlying C++ code via a FFI.
Your point about the physics engine de-syncing the Croquet replication is noted. I don't understand the Croquet architecture, yet, so I will cross that bridge when the time comes. It is good to have the limitations you spelled out in mind as I move forword.
Cordially,
__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__m_u_r_r_a_y__
That answers my question perfectly.
I have an OpenGL book being delivered from Amazon. I will be working through that and as I do, I will replicate the techniques in Smalltalk as this will provide me familiarity with the Smalltalk interface to OpenGL.
At that point, I will start studying the Ogre API and write "duplicate" Smalltalk functionality that will act as a wrapper on the Smalltalk OpenGL implementation without calling the underlying C++ code via a FFI.
Your point about the physics engine de-syncing the Croquet replication is noted. I don't understand the Croquet architecture, yet, so I will cross that bridge when the time comes. It is good to have the limitations you spelled out in mind as I move forword.
Cordially,
__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__m_u_r_r_a_y__
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Анастасия Гомзякова
Dec 24, 2010, 1:41:57 PM12/24/10
to kresti...@googlegroups.com
О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫ О©╫О©╫ О©╫О©╫О©╫ О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫ О©╫О©╫ О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫ О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫ О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫ О©╫ О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫ О©╫О©╫ О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫О©╫ !
Timothy Murray
Dec 24, 2010, 4:21:09 PM12/24/10
to kresti...@googlegroups.com
Ваш английский лучше, чем мой русский!
(:
http://translate.google.com
__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__m_u_r_r_a_y__
(:
http://translate.google.com
__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__m_u_r_r_a_y__
2010/12/24 Анастасия Гомзякова <asi...@mail.ru>
извините но мой английский на плохом уровне поэтому я ничего не поняла !
Timothy Murray
Dec 24, 2010, 4:36:27 PM12/24/10
to kresti...@googlegroups.com
Извините, я думал, ты где Николай
Анастасия Гомзякова
Dec 24, 2010, 4:37:25 PM12/24/10
to kresti...@googlegroups.com
I don't think
Nikolay Suslov
Dec 24, 2010, 8:41:28 PM12/24/10
to Krestianstvo
Timothy,
No problem )
This is mostly Russian spoken mailing list and I just need to answer
in both languages (my omission), so that others could understand also
and English threads.
Regards,
Nikolay
On Dec 25, 12:36 am, Timothy Murray <gettimo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Извините, я думал, ты где Николай
>
> __t_i_m_o_t_h_y__m_u_r_r_a_y__
>
> 2010/12/24 Анастасия Гомзякова <asi...@mail.ru>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > извините но мой английский на плохом уровне поэтому я ничего не поняла !
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Krestianstvo" group.
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > .
No problem )
This is mostly Russian spoken mailing list and I just need to answer
in both languages (my omission), so that others could understand also
and English threads.
Regards,
Nikolay
On Dec 25, 12:36 am, Timothy Murray <gettimo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Извините, я думал, ты где Николай
>
> __t_i_m_o_t_h_y__m_u_r_r_a_y__
>
> 2010/12/24 Анастасия Гомзякова <asi...@mail.ru>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > извините но мой английский на плохом уровне поэтому я ничего не поняла !
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Krestianstvo" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to kresti...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > .
Nikolay Suslov
Dec 24, 2010, 8:47:47 PM12/24/10
to Krestianstvo
Анастасия,
Рад вас слышать!
Я переведу на русский то, что здесь обсуждалось. Это был технический
вопрос.. но думаю, что с точки зрения философии... вам это будет
интересно
Николай
On Dec 25, 12:37 am, Анастасия Гомзякова <asi...@mail.ru> wrote:
> I don't think
Timothy Murray
Dec 25, 2010, 7:26:11 AM12/25/10
to kresti...@googlegroups.com
Thank you,
I forgot I was replying to a list instead of to you directly.
Cordially,
__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__m_u_r_r_a_y__
I forgot I was replying to a list instead of to you directly.
Cordially,
__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__m_u_r_r_a_y__
2010/12/24 Nikolay Suslov <nsus...@gmail.com>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to krestianstvo...@googlegroups.com.
Sean Kean
Jan 9, 2013, 12:59:31 PM1/9/13
to kresti...@googlegroups.com, Tim Murray, getti...@gmail.com
Hi,
This post is about two years old - but im curious how this went - did you develop smalltalk based OGRE implementation? It would seem Unity3D is much more widely used now than OGRE, did you end up looking into that? -- please give us an update! :)
sean
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