Spring Fever

[Russell]

Enjoying the posts. I have been busy. Though I feel I could have
done more in my down time. I laid out lines along contour then built
swales along these lines, angling them slightly to direct water
downhill. Wish I could have made the plant /seed sale.

I have several questions and would like to present them here. If I
should be doing so elsewhere please let me know.
1) Wanting to plant some Apple Trees but I am surrounded by Cedars.
Is this a bad idea and should I just forget about the apples or plan
on yearly fungicide applications?
2) I have a lot of chunks of concrete. A lot. How effect would these
be for capturing heat to sustain non-native plant species during the
winter? Would they be more effective if they were painted black? If
so, how much more effective and would it be worth the time and cost?
3) Should I be using organics if I plan on harvesting seed? Are the
seeds from vegetables grown from commercially marketed seed packets
going to be worth harvesting?
4) And lastly (for now) any contacts for seeds or plants would be
greatly appreciated. Researching information provided by Steve and
looking to make local connections as well.
Thanks...


P.S.
The post re. The Prince's Speech brought to mind two similar examples
I recently came across. One was in a documentary on the Maya. In it
they explained their downfall on the decline of agriculture due to
deforestation which led to erosion filling their swamp lands with clay
and silt, destroying the nutrient rich soil they gathered to supply
their gardens and fields. Another was in my child's Social Studies
book. It explained the downfall of the Roman empire on government run
farms. I found these interesting and it brought to mind one of the
more perplexing quotes/sayings since nobody ever seems to follow it,
and it is, those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat
it.

[Bob Lominska]

It is hard to grow pretty apples organically in this area.  You should get fruit of varying quality.  In my opinion, cedars are not more of a problem than bugs that like apples as much as we do.

I would think that concrete blocks out in the open will make little difference.

If you want to sell or claim the seeds as organic you should use organics and be certified.  Otherwise it is up to you.

 Saving commercially available seed is fine if it is open pollinated.  It will not breed true if it is hybrid.

All the best,

Bob Lominska

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[Skyler]

> I have several questions and would like to present them here.  If I
> should be doing so elsewhere please let me know.
> 1) Wanting to plant some Apple Trees but I am surrounded by Cedars.
> Is this a bad idea and should I just forget about the apples or plan
> on yearly fungicide applications?

Cedar apple rust can be a problem. The first thing i recommend is
choosing the right genetics. Apple varieties such as Liberty, Redfree,
Williams Pride, Freedom are resistant tot C.A.R. Fire blight and scab
are also big concerns. Choose resistant or immune varieties. You can
grow apples conventionally, organically , or holistically. The best
book on apple growing is The Apple Grower By Micheal Phillips and his
new book The Holistic Orchard too. It may be better to plant pest free
plants if you think they will recieve very little maintenance, Autumn
olive, Jujube, persimmon. . .are perhaps some other choices.

> 2)  I have a lot of chunks of concrete. A lot.  How effect would these
> be for capturing heat to sustain non-native plant species during the
> winter?  Would they be more effective if they were painted black?  If
> so, how much more effective and would it be worth the time and cost?

Potentially you could create a micro climate as warm as the south side
of a house in the winter. Planting fruit trees along masonry walls is
an old tradition, but I think it had more to do with extending the
season to allow fruit to ripen more than it did to prevent cold damage
in mid winter. Sepp Holtzer has been growing citrus at 4,000 ft. in
the Austrian Alps. He uses southern slopes and rocks. pretty low
tech. Here we have a significant number of overcast winter days so
collecting solar energy would not work in a week of zero direct
sunlight. Cinder blocks may not make a very good thermal battery as
they are shaped like heat exchanger fins as in a radiator, that means
they will loose heat much fast than a solid chunk of urbanite or rock.
Making a sun catch/ wind break would drastically dampen the effects of
cold weather, plant those non hardy trees on the south side of some
junipers(cedars), that might help a bit.Another thought is that Kansas
may have a climate more like Texas in 15 years any way. . .

> 3) Should I be using organics if I plan on harvesting seed?  Are the
> seeds from vegetables grown from commercially marketed seed packets
> going to be worth harvesting?

I suggest you read Seed to Seed By Suzanne Ashworth to get some
background in seed saving. You are talking about annual vegetable
seeds, right?

[Michael Almon]

Skyler & Bob covered the key points, but I'll add one thing.

Solid concrete or stone are great thermal mass, but it may be
counterproductive to paint them black. Black will absorb a greater
range of the spectrum, but conversely, black re-radiates the heat faster
than lighter colors. Heat gain is better, but heat loss is greater too.

To utilize the heat captured, I advise having more than half of the
concrete under the soil surface or under water, up to 2/3 of the mass.
Because any surface exposed to air will lose its heat to the air,
whereas the surface in contact with soil or water will put the heat into
the soil or water, which is where you want it. If you recall, that's
how Sepp Holzer did it.

Michael