Next Chabura1/4 at 9:15pm - in these times keeping up our kevius is an important thing to do - and 2 he'aros and our yearly solicitation
Weiss, David
Excellent Chabura by R’ Moshe – Shkoyach – 2 hearos
1) R’ Epstein made the point that the wording of the Meiri implied that the reason “מחשש פריקת עול יראה” ONLY applies to a Father and NOT the others on the list (for them the reason is “הרהור”) – therefore the heter of “אם היה אביו צריך לו לשמשו מותר” applies SPECIFICALLY to a father (as meduyak in the Meiri) and not the others – this was challenged - but I believe a full citation bears out R’ Epstein’s point:
בית הבחירה (מאירי) מסכת פסחים דף נא עמוד א
…עם הכל אדם רוחץ חוץ מחמיו ובעל אחותו שמתוך ראייתם זוכר את אחותו ואת אשתו ומחשבות ממשמשות ובאות ועם אביו אסור מחשש פריקת עול יראה ומ"מ אם היה אביו צריך לו לשמשו מותר וכן הדין בתלמיד עם רבו….
2) R’ Moshe’s excellent chabura now allows us to deal with issue of: How – according to the sugya in Shabbos 33b – R’ Pinchas ben Yair – identified as the son –in-law of Rashbi – could have bathed Rashbi upon his emergence from the cave? Attached are some preliminary cooments – feedback welcome to the forum – and GOOD SHABBOS TO ALL OF KLAL YISRAEL!!!!!
DW
Again - Rabbossai – the Kollel’s dinner is fast approaching and each year we put in a joint ad. The way it works is that each of us donates (I would say $50 or above) earmarked money for the Kollel Erev ad – so that we cover the cost of a page. Payment can be made via the Kollel web site and the payment area for the dinner – earmarked as ‘for Kollel Erev ad’. I enclosed the ad here – I would leave it as is - without ‘names’ (a bit of a pain to coordinate) – but if anyone feels strongly that individual names need to be included – I will be glad to delegate that responsibility to them and offer a heartfelt “SHKOYACH”!
Next Chabura:
1/4 - 51b – R’ Goldschmidt
Topic
TBA
Time – 9:15 PM till 10:00
“Back of the Bais” at the Kollel
PLEASE – make every effort to attend!!!!!
Lets Keep attendance STRONG!!!!!
Please arrive early so the chabura can begin promptly
Schedule – updated - check it out!
1/11– 52a –Rosh Kollel
1/18 – 52b –R’ Avis
1/25 –53a –R’ Epstein
2/1 – 53b –R’ Weiner
2/8 – 54a –weiss
2/15 - 54b –R’ Noff
2/22 - 55a – R’ Starkman
2/29 – 55b-R’ Goldschmidt
3/7 – 56a – R’ Avis
3/14 – 56b – Rosh Kollel
3/21 – off
3/28 – 57a – R’ Epstein
4/4 – 57b – R’ Weiner
4/11 – 58a –R’ Noff
4/18 –5/2 – off
5/9 – 58b – R’ Starkman
5/16 – 59a – weiss
5/23 – 59b – R’ Goldschmidt
5/30 – 60a - Rosh Kollel
6/6 – 60b – R’ Avis
6/13 – off
6/20 – 61a – R’ Epstein
6/27 – 62b – R’ Weiner
7/4 – 63a – Weiss
7/11– 63b –R’ Noff
7/18 – 64a – R’ Starkman
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Kollel Erev" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
kollel-erev...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kollel-erev/MN2PR04MB5982F0FFEBD86CFB5BA92FAFD499A%40MN2PR04MB5982.namprd04.prod.outlook.com.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Kollel Erev" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
kollel-erev...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kollel-erev/MN2PR04MB5982B61041A087106A3FD787D498A%40MN2PR04MB5982.namprd04.prod.outlook.com.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Kollel Erev" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
kollel-erev...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kollel-erev/MN2PR04MB59829D847D65C198809DA75FD49EA%40MN2PR04MB5982.namprd04.prod.outlook.com.
Weiss, David
Sent during rounds (a lull in the action) – so I will be brief:
You wrote:
If the others are allowed when there is a need, why would the rebbi be any different that he needs to be specified?
BUT - that’s the point: according to the Meiri (and assuming that ‘hirhur’ leads to an inviolable issur – even for need – per ‘our’ chakira) the reason by a Rebbe (like by a father) IS Kavod/Yirah THEREFORE – there IS a heter for ‘basic need’ BUT by the others the reason is hirhur therefore no heter (as R’ Epstein and R’ Weiner pointed out) – (except maybe in ‘pikauch nefesh’ level need)
DW
From: Moshe Starkman <msta...@moshe247.com>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2023 10:39 AM
To: Weiss, David <David...@pennmedicine.upenn.edu>; kolle...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Doniel Epstein <dce...@gmail.com>; Dov Goldschmidt <goldsc...@gmail.com>; David Lebor <dlebo...@gmail.com>; tato...@gmail.com; Tomer Noff <tom...@gmail.com>; Yitzhak Weiss <yweiss...@gmail.com>; Rabbi Biberfeld <r...@verizon.net>
Subject: [External] RE: Next Chabura1/4 at 9:15pm - in these times keeping up our kevius is an important thing to do - and 2 he'aros and our yearly solicitation
You’re the best! Shkoyach. I’ve attached the mekoros from last night’s chaburah.
Regarding R’ Epstein’s point, it’s fair and I agree that prikas ol yirah only applies to the father. The father has both hirhor AND chashash prikas ol yirah, yet still, it is allowed when there is a need (according to the Meiri.) Therefore, my contention is that the others are certainly allowed as well. But “talmid im rabo” is an issue for me. If the others are allowed when there is a need, why would the rebbi be any different that he needs to be specified?
My thinking is that a rebbi is a chidush that needs explicit mention because in Kedushin 32a there is a machlokes about mechilas kavod harav. (One of the nafka minas from last night that I left out, which Donny pointed out, was a case where the father is mochel al k’vodo.)
קדושין ל"ב.
אָמַר רַב יִצְחָק בַּר שֵׁילָא אָמַר רַב מַתְנָה אָמַר רַב חִסְדָּא: הָאָב שֶׁמָּחַל עַל כְּבוֹדוֹ – כְּבוֹדוֹ מָחוּל. הָרַב שֶׁמָּחַל עַל כְּבוֹדוֹ – אֵין כְּבוֹדוֹ מָחוּל. וְרַב יוֹסֵף אָמַר: אֲפִילּוּ הָרַב שֶׁמָּחַל עַל כְּבוֹדוֹ – כְּבוֹדוֹ מָחוּל.
A father needs to be specified because of chashash perikas ol yirah and a rebbi needs to be specified because his mechilah is not absolute. In light of this, the others are “obviously” allowed in the case of need.
Have a great Shabbos everyone!
Moshe