Italian translation lev 1 e lev2

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Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Oct 12, 2015, 9:39:39 AM10/12/15
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Hi Lalit, I've made an Italian translation for gui and Turtle commands.
Files are in attachment kojo_it-lang.tar.xz.

I haven't fully tested.

Massimo
kojo_it-lang.tar.xz

Lalit Pant

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Oct 12, 2015, 9:50:34 AM10/12/15
to Massimo Maria Ghisalberti, kojo-dev
Hi Massimo,

Thanks!

I'll put out a Kojo-Web version (with the Italian support) soon for you to test.

Regards,
- Lalit



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Lalit Pant

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Oct 12, 2015, 3:54:59 PM10/12/15
to Massimo Maria Ghisalberti, kojo-dev
Hi Massimo,

I just put out a new Kojo-Web version with support for Italian: http://www.kogics.net/webkojo
Please test and let me know how it looks.

Note - we're not allowed to give a translated command the same name as its corresponding Engllish command (because this leads to a 'duplicates' import error when that command is used). So I have changed the names of the following commands in the Italian turtle:
- visible
- invisible
- area
https://bitbucket.org/lalit_pant/kojo/commits/e4569f78f6127149a7385b5aed5a98257388a926#chg-src/main/scala/net/kogics/kojo/lite/i18n/itInit.scala

Feel free to adjust these as you see fit.

Regards,
- Lalit

Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Oct 13, 2015, 2:31:08 AM10/13/15
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Hi Lalit and sorry for the late,
thanks for corrections.

Maybe I should start a course in the my son school in the next days and this is the reason for the translation.

Please change 'area2' in 'superficie' :)

I built Kojo from repo and today, daily work permitting, I will try to test the translation.

... and thanks a lot for developing Kojo.

Massimo

Lalit Pant

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Oct 13, 2015, 2:59:33 AM10/13/15
to Massimo Maria Ghisalberti, kojo-dev
Hi Massimo,


> Please change 'area2' in 'superficie' :)

Done (and checked in, but not yet live on Kojo-Web).


> Maybe I should start a course in the my son school in the next days

Great. Do you want me to do a new build and create a Kojo installer for you?


> ... and thanks a lot for developing Kojo.

You are very welcome!

Regards,
- Lalit



Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Oct 13, 2015, 12:10:41 PM10/13/15
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HI Lalit.
I've made some modification in Italian.
In ItInit.scala I've added some 'statements' simulation.

.se (cond) {block} altrimenti {block} for if-else espression
.seVero(cond) {block} for simple if
.an elvis op ?: a la Groovy that work with null value and 'oppure' that work with empy value (0, false, empty string)
.classic ternary operator: cond ?? if true :: if false

For now I build Kojo simple for myself, but in the case of the school course... yes an installer will be appreciated :) thanks.

Ciao.

================================================================================

Some foolish tests:

var TEST = true
var OBJ = "Io"
var OBJ2 = 0

println("--------------------------------------------------------")

println(OBJ ?: "AAA1");

println("--------------------------------------------------------")

println(OBJ2 oppure "BBB");

println("--------------------------------------------------------")

println((1 + 1 == 2) ?? "True1" :: "False1")
println((1 + 5 == 2) ?? "True2" :: "False2")

println("--------------------------------------------------------")
println(se(1 + 1 == 3) {
  println("SONO VERO1")
  "True1"
} altrimenti {
  println("SONO FALSO1")
  "False1"
})
println("--------------------------------------------------------")
println(se(1 + 1 == 2) {
  println("SONO VERO2")
  "True2"
} altrimenti {
  println("SONO FALSO2")
  "False2"
})

println("--------------------------------------------------------")
println(seVero(TEST) {
  println(TEST)
  "il valore è vero"
})
println("--------------------------------------------------------")

================================================================================

Some corrections and modifications:

file ItInint.scala is in attachment

--------------

kojo/src/main/resources/net/kogics/kojo/lite/Bundle_it.properties

line: 50 -> S_TangramSkier=Sciatore col Tangram

-------------

kojo/src/main/resources/i18n/initk/it.tw.kojo

line:22 -> val ItalianAPI = net.kogics.kojo.lite.i18n.ItalianAPI
insert:    import net.kogics.kojo.lite.i18n.ItalianCustomStatements._
line:23 -> import ItalianAPI.{

================================================================================
itInit.scala

Björn Regnell

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Oct 13, 2015, 12:30:10 PM10/13/15
to Massimo Maria Ghisalberti, kojo-dev

Cool that we have Italian now also!! Nice contribution, Massimo.

 

In general I'm a bit sceptic about 'statement simulation' just for translation purposes (although ripetizione is good to have as this is a way to do looping without having to know about variables and they can later learn about for-statements).

 

I think it is better that they learn and use (some of) the English Scala keywords and that the experience the keyword syntax coloring in Kojo to understand that some words are very special and help the computer(compiler) to grasp what to do and you can't use these words for anything else. After all every coder need to learn English sooner or later ;) given that English is the lingua franca of software and a couple of English words with very specific meaning in a coding context is easilly included in a kid's vocabulary, esp. compared to understanding the concept underneath. The ternary operator is IMHO too cryptic - better use Scala's built in if expression.

 

(I played with similar things in Swedish some years ago, but learnt about the above pedagogical challenges and losses when trying on kids and refrained from using them ...)

 

/B

 

 

/*

Bjorn Regnell, Professor in Software Engineering            www.bjornregnell.se

Faculty of Engineering, LTH, Lund University

 

Lund University: http://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/  Faculty of Engineering, LTH: http://www.lth.se/english  Dept. of Computer Science: http://cs.lth.se/bjornregnell  Software Engineering Research Group: http://serg.cs.lth.se  Postal Adress: P.O. Box 118, SE-221 00 Lund, Sweden; Visiting Address: E-huset LTH, Ole Romers Vag 3, Room E:2413; Office Phone: +46 46 222 90 09  Mobile Phone: +46 702 72 90 09

*/

Lalit Pant

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Oct 13, 2015, 1:04:42 PM10/13/15
to Björn Regnell, Massimo Maria Ghisalberti, kojo-dev
Hi Massimo, it's nice to see you trying out new things. Your requested changes have been checked in. Please verify.
As soon as you're satisfied with your translation and want a new installer, let me know.

Hi Bjorn, it's good to have your inputs, especially regarding your thought process when you went about doing the initial Swedish translation.

Regards,
- Lalit





Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Oct 13, 2015, 1:23:33 PM10/13/15
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Hi Bjorn,
I'm completly agree with you about statement simulation only for translation. I've made this only for an initial approuch for ten age child.
Italians are really 'hard' on foreign languages, especially children.
Maybe in the next days, I will begin a little course at the school of my son and I don't want fall in to Scratch... :)
This is the reason for my translations in general.
English is, for me too, the lingua franca in programming and the italian translation will be used only in the first phase.

I've already write a little course for children in Ruby (in italian and if you are curious is here: http://minimalprocedure.pragmas.org/writings/programmazione_elementare_ruby/corso_elementare_ruby.html) but Scala is one of my passions (with OCaml/F# and functional paradigm in general). Kojo in my opinion is an interesting software for teaching (not to much visual) and experimenting. I don't like Scratch for that, to much procedural rigid and visual.
I think that children should also write rather than mount only Lego blocks.
In some my experiments with children and Scratch I saw that they tend to play with drawing tools instead thinking.
Maybe italians are more inattentive than nordics or anglosaxon-mind people, we are people of artists and sailors, spaghetti and mandolino :D

Ciao

Massimo

Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Oct 13, 2015, 1:36:31 PM10/13/15
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Thanks Lalit.

ps: the name of a classmate of my son is Lalit ;)

Lalit Pant

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Oct 13, 2015, 11:28:45 PM10/13/15
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> ps: the name of a classmate of my son is Lalit ;)

It's a small world!

/L

Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Oct 16, 2015, 6:43:32 AM10/16/15
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Hi Lalit,
I was testing the translation and I thought, why not add some simple shapes. We have functions to draw circles and arcs, but not squares or triangles. It is very simple programming this functions, it's true, but it might be useful? Only for younger children...

Lalit Pant

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Oct 16, 2015, 8:55:22 AM10/16/15
to Massimo Maria Ghisalberti, kojo-dev, bjorn....@cs.lth.se
Hi Massimo,

The reason for not adding them is that they are pretty much the starting point for kids to start playing with the idea of unit lengths and distances and angles. As kids progress and start making more complicated drawings (built out of sqaures, triangles, etc.), these shapes also provide good motivation for them to learn about defining their own commands.

But you are very welcome to add them in the Italian version. You can then give us feedback on how it went with the kids who used it.

Regards,
- Lalit


On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Massimo Maria Ghisalberti <zai...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Lalit,
I was testing the translation and I thought, why not add some simple shapes. We have functions to draw circles and arcs, but not squares or triangles. It is very simple programming this functions, it's true, but it might be useful? Only for younger children...

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Björn Regnell

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Oct 16, 2015, 9:01:20 AM10/16/15
to Lalit Pant, Massimo Maria Ghisalberti, kojo-dev

yeah - these are good first challenges on the abstraction ability road, so better implement themselves. For smaller kids you can give the solution on paper and they can type it in and test it and they get a feeling of accomplishemt

/B

 

From: Lalit Pant [mailto:pant....@gmail.com]
Sent: den 16 oktober 2015 14:55
To: Massimo Maria Ghisalberti <zai...@gmail.com>
Cc: kojo-dev <kojo...@googlegroups.com>; Björn Regnell <bjorn....@cs.lth.se>
Subject: Re: Italian translation lev 1 e lev2

 

Hi Massimo,

Regards,

- Lalit

 

Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Oct 16, 2015, 9:02:38 AM10/16/15
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Ok thanks :)

Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Oct 16, 2015, 10:31:30 AM10/16/15
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Thanks Bjorn.


Il giorno venerdì 16 ottobre 2015 15:01:20 UTC+2, Bjorn Regnell ha scritto:

yeah - these are good first challenges on the abstraction ability road, so better implement themselves. For smaller kids you can give the solution on paper and they can type it in and test it and they get a feeling of accomplishemt

/B

 

From: Lalit Pant [mailto:pant....@gmail.com]
Sent: den 16 oktober 2015 14:55
To: Massimo Maria Ghisalberti <zai...@gmail.com>
Cc: kojo-dev <kojo...@googlegroups.com>; Björn Regnell <bjorn....@cs.lth.se>
Subject: Re: Italian translation lev 1 e lev2

 

Hi Massimo,

The reason for not adding them is that they are pretty much the starting point for kids to start playing with the idea of unit lengths and distances and angles. As kids progress and start making more complicated drawings (built out of sqaures, triangles, etc.), these shapes also provide good motivation for them to learn about defining their own commands.

But you are very welcome to add them in the Italian version. You can then give us feedback on how it went with the kids who used it.

Regards,

- Lalit

 

On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Massimo Maria Ghisalberti <zai...@gmail.com> wrote:


Hi Lalit,
I was testing the translation and I thought, why not add some simple shapes. We have functions to draw circles and arcs, but not squares or triangles. It is very simple programming this functions, it's true, but it might be useful? Only for younger children...

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Björn Regnell

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Oct 16, 2015, 11:11:21 AM10/16/15
to Massimo Maria Ghisalberti, pant....@gmail.com, kojo-dev

Massimo, perhaps you want to contribute with a translation of this document with progressive "Challenges with Kojo" to Italian?

https://bitbucket.org/bjornregnell/scaboo

Download pdf in English by pressing the "Raw"-button on this page:

https://bitbucket.org/bjornregnell/scaboo/src/5247de50ddd6dabb918ea16a3a12b546071f7e89/kojobook/tex/book-en.pdf?at=master&fileviewer=file-view-default

 

/B

Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Oct 16, 2015, 11:43:16 AM10/16/15
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Yes, of course. Give me only some time, I'm really busy with my daily work... :)

Björn Regnell

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Oct 17, 2015, 9:58:29 AM10/17/15
to Massimo Maria Ghisalberti, kojo-dev, pant....@gmail.com

Take any time you want :)  I'm not currently aware of any other Italian that needs the challenges, but I thought you might want to use them in class perhaps...

/B

 

From: kojo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:kojo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Massimo Maria Ghisalberti


Sent: den 16 oktober 2015 17:43
To: kojo-dev <kojo...@googlegroups.com>

Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Oct 17, 2015, 10:05:20 AM10/17/15
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Hi Bjorn, today I've translated text but not code and code comments.
Yes, this challenges are interesting and if I can organize this course will keep surely it in account.

Massimo

Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Nov 5, 2015, 10:44:17 AM11/5/15
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Hello to all.

Lalit, if all goes well on the 14th of this month we will start a course for children.
I send you two files for some changes.
Can you prepare some installers for the 14th?

Thank you for now. :)
it.tw.kojo
itInit.scala

Lalit Pant

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Nov 5, 2015, 11:01:49 AM11/5/15
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Hi Massimo,


> Can you prepare some installers for the 14th?

Sure. What platforms do you want the installers for? Windows? Linux? Mac?

Regards,
- Lalit



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Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Nov 5, 2015, 11:06:02 AM11/5/15
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Can you prepare for all? At school Windows is the main OS and some pc with linux. Some kids have a Mac at home.

thanks.

massimo

Lalit Pant

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Nov 5, 2015, 11:12:56 AM11/5/15
to Massimo Maria Ghisalberti, kojo-dev, bjorn....@cs.lth.se
In that case, how about if we do the following:
- I will put a version out on Kojo-Web with your latest changes.
- If everything looks good, we'll do a new release of Kojo. All the installers will then get pushed out to the Kojo website (I normally do the Linux and Windows installers, while Bjorn and company do the Mac installer).

Sound fine?

/L


Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Nov 5, 2015, 11:18:17 AM11/5/15
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Ok :)

Lalit Pant

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Nov 5, 2015, 11:26:41 AM11/5/15
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The new version is now out there on Kojo-Web. Lemme know if everything looks good to go.

/L

Lalit Pant

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Nov 6, 2015, 1:37:12 PM11/6/15
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Hi Massimo,

Did you try out the latest Kojo-Web version (2.4.08 r5)? Does the Italian support in there look fine? If so, I'll move forward with the release process.

Regards,
- Lalit

Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Nov 7, 2015, 12:25:00 PM11/7/15
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Hi Bjorn

in this http://minimalprocedure.pragmas.org/writings/scaboo.zip the translated challenges.
I've not translated the Scala code, it's in english as original.

ciao

massimo

Björn Regnell

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Nov 7, 2015, 1:40:35 PM11/7/15
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Great, Massimo! Are you planning to translate also some of the code to Italian or do you want to keep it in English?

Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Nov 10, 2015, 3:00:51 AM11/10/15
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I dont know really, Bjorn...
What would be best?
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