Help in translatings examples in Italian

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Carlo Dormeletti

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Jan 17, 2018, 6:24:30 AM1/17/18
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How to translate the examples in italians.


TIA and Regards

Carlo D.

(hope it is the right place)

Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Jan 17, 2018, 6:59:07 AM1/17/18
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Hello Carlo.
I took care of the Italian part of Kojo, if you tell me what you want to do, maybe I could help you.
If you want to speak in italian can contact me directly writing to zai...@gmail.com.

ciao.

Massimo

Lalit Pant

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Jan 17, 2018, 8:43:43 AM1/17/18
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Hi Carlo and Massimo,

For the record, the way in which you can 'translate' one or more examples to use the italian API is described here (under point number 3 - Sample localization):

Here's a recap of what's described in the link above in the context of an Italian translation:

(1) go into the following dir:

This dir is called the samples dir below.

(2) Create a subdir called 'it' under the samples dir.

(3) Copy files you want to translate from the samples directory into the samples/it directory.

(4) Translated these files (keeping the filename the same) to use the Italian API as desired.

(5) You're done. In Italian mode, these translated sample files will get picked up automatically from the Samples menu.

PS. Development has now moved to GitHub, so please do all of the above in a fork on GitHub (https://github.com/litan/kojo), and send me a pull request.

Let me know if you have any questions about any of this.

Regards,
- Lalit












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Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Jan 19, 2018, 4:33:15 AM1/19/18
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Hi Lalit and thank you for the information.
Actually I'm not very inclined to examples localizations. Localization is related only to turtle part and we could have some mixed code (italian/english) that instead of helping could be an obstacle. Kids should pass as soon as possible to english, this is unavoidable. I know that in italian localization I also added a simple implementation of if/else (se/altrimenti), but it's to be considered only for small children. Already localizations collide with language keywords.
English is the language of programming, whether we like it or not. :)

Only for information, a friend of mine have written a book in italian on teaching programming with Kojo (target is linguistic teacher) and It's actually in print (maybe the first italian book on Kojo).

ciao

massimo
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Björn Regnell

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Jan 19, 2018, 5:16:03 AM1/19/18
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 I agree! Move on to coding in English as soon as possible. When getting over the first hurdles of abstraction and internalizing a mental model of execution young learner need their brain's sharpest tool: native language. When you get over the threshold, go for English. But explanations and challenges should be formulated in native language as thinking about English code is still done best in native language until adult age is my hypothesis. Also for adults, its important to develop a native vocabulary for concepts of computing in parallell to the English vocabulary. Even if you code in English and use English varable names etc. you need easy access to words to talk about the code in native language.
/B

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Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Jan 19, 2018, 6:13:13 AM1/19/18
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Hi Bjorn :)
I figured you agreed...

Yes, maybe for non english people is more hard thinking in native and writing in english (specially for some native languages) ma is the only way to go.
English is perhaps not the most beautiful language in the world (I am Italian and Italian is the most beautiful language in the world: D) but it's a 'pragmatic language' that makes it particularly suitable for the concretization of computational problems in a non-dispersive way.

For a simple example, in my professional work I find that reading code in which the names of variables or functions are in italian forces me to a linguistic context switch  too often and tiring more than the 'bad' variables names but in english.
In Italy... this is very common and most code is written in a that mixed manner.

ciao.

massimo
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Lalit Pant

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Jan 19, 2018, 7:37:49 AM1/19/18
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Hi Massimo (and Carlo),

> Actually I'm not very inclined to examples localizations.

That's totally your call. Carlo, are there any particular examples that you are very interested in translating? If so, please discuss with Massimo and see if you guys can come to an agreement.

> a friend of mine have written a book in italian on teaching programming with Kojo (target is linguistic teacher)

Please share a link to the book, if it's linkable. I, for one, (and I'm sure this applies to many others in the group) am very curious to see what's in it.

Regards,
- Lalit


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Björn Regnell

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Jan 19, 2018, 8:18:34 AM1/19/18
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Most Swedes are very comfortable with English as a second language and professional coders almost always create English identifiers in code (except if the domain is entirely Swedish-specific where no English word exists, such as some specific regulation, authority etc).

But I think that if I am going to talk about e.g. how an iteration over a collection works with a young learner I want to have that discussion in Swedish if I'm talking to a Swede...  So I use the Swedish words for collection and iteration etc. when *talking* about code even if everything in the code including identifiers are in English. As a teacher we need to actively foster a native vocabulary as soon as we go over to coding in English, otherwise the learner will not develop a native vocabulary and will have obstacles when talking and thinking about what the learn.

/B

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Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Jan 19, 2018, 9:16:47 AM1/19/18
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hi Lalit,
Of course, when a link to the book will be available I'll send it to you as soon as possible.

ciao.

m.

Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Jan 19, 2018, 9:46:16 AM1/19/18
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In Italy, not many italians are proficient in english (but in italian too, Italian is a complex language that not many Italians master) and often our natural laziness leads to a hybrid lexicon italianizing english terms and falling into a 'tech slang'.

But returning to the subject ... I agree: the concepts must be addressed in native language and implementation of these must be in english (if programming language is english based, of course).

m.

Massimo Maria Ghisalberti

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Jan 22, 2018, 7:01:12 AM1/22/18
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Hi Lalit,
this is the website link http://www.anicialab.it/coding/lingua/index.php?p=aindex for the book that I told you.
It's in Italian, obviously.
The arguments are addressed mainly with Kojo and Scala but with some code variants in Prolog and LOGO.
Code is presented in a simple way for a language teachers target.

Ciao

massimo

Lalit Pant

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Jan 22, 2018, 8:51:55 AM1/22/18
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Wow, this looks like a rich resource. I think I need to learn some Italian ;)

Thanks for the link, Massimo. This will make for some interesting investigations.
PS. I'm really happy to see the music generation facilities within Kojo being used in the material.

/L

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