Which Kie Sandbox image to use in private openshift env

[Marco Iannelli]

Dear Kie Team,
We would like to deploy the latest kie sandbox image into our private openshift environment. In the past we already did so by pulling the following images:
quay.io/kogito_tooling_bot/kie-sandbox-image:0.16.0 or quay.io/kie-tools/kie-sandbox-image:latest

now when i try to pull quay.io/kie-tools/kie-sandbox-image:0.30.0 I see quite some difference between my deployed version and the one which is available on https://sandbox.kie.org/

just to mention few:
- in kie-sandbox-image:0.30.0 the "i" icon next to the kie sandbox logo is not present
- in kie-sandbox-image:0.30.0 the import section, doesn't have any reference to Bitbucket - ....

Now my questions: 

- what is the difference between kie-sandbox-image:0.30.0 and dmn-dev-deployment-base-image:0.30.0
- is kie-sandbox-image:0.30.0 the correct one? are you still maintaining it?
- what are your plans related the kie sandbox?

thank you for your answer

Marco Iannelli

[Luiz Motta]

Hi Marco, thanks for reaching out!

Yes, the KIE Sandbox has had some major changes since 0.16.0!

  just to mention few:
- in kie-sandbox-image:0.30.0 the "i" icon next to the kie sandbox logo is not present
- in kie-sandbox-image:0.30.0 the import section, doesn't have any reference to Bitbucket - ....  

That's a little strange. I just tried the 0.30.0, and it's the same as the sandbox.kie.org. The 0.16.0 doesn't have these features, could you check if you're not running the 0.16.0 image?

  Now my questions:
- what is the difference between kie-sandbox-image:0.30.0 and dmn-dev-deployment-base-image:0.30.0
- is kie-sandbox-image:0.30.0 the correct one? are you still maintaining it?
- what are your plans related the kie sandbox?  

1. The "kie-sandbox-image" is the way to go if you want to use the KIE Sandbox! The "dmn-dev-deployment-base-image" is the image used as a base to deploy your DMNs in a Kubernetes/Openshift cluster. When you use the "Deploy" button in the DMN Editor the "dmn-dev-deployment-base-image" will be used to create a new service in your cluster. You can try it out in the 0.30.0 or in the sandbox.kie.org. It will require the Extended Services though. You can set it up using the wizard that will open up or using the image quay.io/repository/kie-tools/kie-sandbox-extended-services-image .

2. Yes, it's the correct one to use if you're upgrading it from 0.16.0, and we're still maintaining it.

3. Our plans are to keep improving and evolving, features will be added over time, and inputs are more than welcome!

Luiz.

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[Marco Iannelli]

Hi Luiz,

thank you for your message. 

I have tried again with version 0.3.0 and I could see that is the same as per sandbox.kie.org

I have a new question now. 
is the kie sandbox able to open a (DMN) file which is in the same server where kie sandbox is running?

when i click on "Select files" or "Select folders..."  I'm always redirected to my local computer.

thank you for your feedback

Marco

[Luiz Motta]

Great to know that you manage to use the 0.30.0 version! Still regarding your last problem, we've checked here, and apparently, it happened due to a browser cache, and this can happen during a version change. For now, we recommend cleaning the browser cache after a version update.

Answering your new question:
The KIE Sandbox is a web application that runs in the browser, and independent of where the KIE Sandbox is hosted, you're not going to have access to the server files from the application itself. You'll only have access to files in the machine where you've opened the browser.

Now, a workaround to use those files would be to push them to a private repository in GitHub or BitBucket, add your credentials in KIE Sandbox and clone this repository using the "Import From URL" feature on the Home page.

I hope it helps,
Luiz.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kogito-development/8c0af4af-0102-411f-a9fb-917fb22b7c4fn%40googlegroups.com.

[Marco Iannelli]

Hi Luiz

We have GitLab repository but i've seen it's not possible yet to authenticate with that. 

any ETA by when you guys will support GitLab authentication too?

thanks again for your support

BR

Marco

[Luiz Motta]

We don't have an ETA for GitLab support yet, but it's on the roadmap. You can keep track of it on the kie-issues repository (https://github.com/kiegroup/kie-issues/issues/11).

Luiz.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kogito-development/2772fb27-a9f4-422c-93b8-43b7bdff3640n%40googlegroups.com.

[Marco Iannelli]

Thank you again Luiz.

I have one more question regarding the usage of the kie sandbox:

Once you upload a file using the sandbox, do you know in which location, the uploaded files are stored? is it a temp folder? which one it is? 

could you let me know?

thank you for your feedback

p.s. 

do you have any documentation regarding kie sandbox which might cover questions similar to this? 

[Luiz Motta]

The KIE Sandbox is a web application that fully works in the browser. It will not interact with your file system unless you use the download/upload feature, which will then have access to the file system of the machine where the browser was opened. It's important to remember that it will never interact with the server machine file system. That said, KIE Sandbox saves all files in the browser storage using IndexedDB (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/IndexedDB_API), and you cannot retrieve those files without using the IndexedDB API.

Sadly, we don't have community documentation regarding the KIE Sandbox that I can point out to you at this time.

Luiz.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kogito-development/8f3d0ae4-4f57-45c7-8e6d-78333735b1e6n%40googlegroups.com.

[Marco Iannelli]

Thank you Luiz. It's all clear.

Regarding KIE Sandbox, while playing around with it I came across few doubts:

• I could not find a way to open scesim file. Is it supported?
• Do you know if it's possible to open a folder (or file) on startup of the kie sandbox?

thank you for your valuable feedback and more in general regarding the work you are doing with the KIE.

BR

Marco

[Luiz Motta]

Marco, I'm glad it helped. Answering your new questions:

1. No, KIE Sandbox can't open SCESIM files. But you can use our VS Code extension to edit them (https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=kie-group.dmn-vscode-extension).

2. It's not possible to set this up, but you can directly open a Workspace file using its URL. When you create/open a project in KIE Sandbox, you will create/access what we call a Workspace, and your URL will be changed to the Workspace file you've opened. Now, you could use this URL to directly open your project file, but remember, it will not be possible to share this URL with others as the Workspace is saved in your browser. A thing to be aware of is that we cannot guarantee that the Workspace will be saved in your browser forever. For example, if the user cleans up the browser data, it will erase their Workspaces. Another example is the anonymous browser, which will not save the Workspace after you've closed the browser window. The best way is to use a Git provider to maintain your work.

I hope it clarifies how KIE Sandbox works,

Luiz.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kogito-development/39e5b306-8a9e-425a-9cca-86e003abd19fn%40googlegroups.com.

[Marco Iannelli]

Hi Luiz,

Thanks again for your answer; the more we use the kie sandbox, the more we enjoy working with it.

And of course the more questions :)

One additional aspect we came across is related the extended services:

Can the same extended service, which is running on the same address and port, serves the execution of multiple decisions from multiple users?

If yes how?

Thank you again and best regards

Marco

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kogito-development/CABZkD5xs2gUh3Sh%2BMjvfLJZK5QfzTTQ4hW2mb887UhXFbdyyNg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Luiz Motta]

Hi Marco, I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying using it.

The Extended Services can be used by multiple users, you just need to configure a server to host it and change the configuration in the KIE Sandbox by clicking on the cog icon.

For example:

- Open the https://sandbox.kie.org/#/

- Click on the cog icon in the header;

- Set up this URL in the host field: https://kie-sandbox-extended-services-kie-sandbox.rhba-0ad6762cc85bcef5745bb684498c2436-0000.us-south.containers.appdomain.cloud
- Erase the port value (keep it empty);

- Click on "Change" and wait for the confirmation;

- Close the modal and start using it!

Just to be aware, this is an externally deployed Extended Services and should be used with caution. We can't guarantee it will keep working, so we recommend deploying your own Extended Services.

Finally, a minor correction regarding my answer to the SCESIM editor's question. It's not like we're not going to support it ever, we don't support it today, and we just don't have an ETA for supporting it yet.

Regards,

Luiz.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kogito-development/CAKMap9SzvvsmLeWcqJCLeiwTmuL%2B0ej9nU2_BHGcHuj5bfBpiw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Marco Iannelli]

Hi Luiz,

Thanks for your answer and clarification; it sounds really promising. 

We have actually our extended service but i was wondering how does the kie sand box is able to give the response for the dmn? Does it initiate a kogito project behind the scene or what?

Thanks

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kogito-development/CABZkD5yd-6%2BwL4CjFJNERE64z033%2BeymxXagq25jHEhfpuijsg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Luiz Motta]

The Extended Services doesn't start a Kogito project. It uses the Kogito JIT Executor, which you can read more about in the kogito-apps repository (https://github.com/kiegroup/kogito-apps/tree/main/jitexecutor). In summary, it executes the models on the fly, providing live feedback. It is a tool to help during the modeling and development process.

Marco, one thing I missed informing you is that you could deploy your KIE Sandbox setting the "KIE_SANDBOX_EXTENDED_SERVICES_URL" environment variable to set the default Extended Services URL, this way the users will not need to manually change the Extended Services configuration in the KIE Sandbox. Just remember that maybe you'll need to clear the browser cache.

I hope it helps,

Luiz

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kogito-development/CAKMap9R0BKRpJuX-mq534myZieOZXHpazD85zojkn7qx9pU0ZA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Marco Iannelli]

Hi Luiz,

regarding the scesim editing, do you think the functionality which is now present in VSC, can be embedded into a custom html file (similarly as it's now possible with the dmn editor)?

regarding gitlab support, do you have any eta?

thanks for your CF (continuous feedbacks :))

BR

Marco

[Luiz Motta]

Hi Marco,

Regarding the SCESIM editor, we can plan to do this in the future, but currently, we're rewriting the editor [1], so we wouldn't make it for the current one.

We still don't have an ETA for the GitLab support, but you can follow the related issue on kie-issues [2].

[1] https://github.com/kiegroup/kie-issues/issues/201
[2] https://github.com/kiegroup/kie-issues/issues/11

Luiz.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kogito-development/94f837be-803b-422c-a20f-ed285d580053n%40googlegroups.com.

[Marco Iannelli]

Thank you Luiz.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kogito-development/CABZkD5y3YEa9XzsKzh_L7obDYtfgUQRO33bcRkPa4Vjz4mvmHQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Marco Iannelli]

Hi Luiz,

i would like to deploy in my environment the KSB which is available under dev  sandbox.kie.org/dev/ 

do you see any issue with this? 

moreover could you point to the extended services url  we can use with  sandbox.kie.org/dev/?

thank you very much

[Luiz Motta]

Hi Marco,

I'm not sure what KSB is. Regarding the sandbox.kie.org/dev/   I do not recommend this. We can't guarantee stability as it's a dev environment. I do recommend deploying your own KIE Sandbox using the image [1].

Regarding the Extended Service URL, we don't have it, but you can use the Extended Services image [2] to deploy your own. Or you can download the binary from the kie-tools release page [3].

[1] https://quay.io/repository/kie-tools/kie-sandbox-image?tab=tags

[2] https://quay.io/repository/kie-tools/kie-sandbox-extended-services-image?tab=tags

[3] https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-tools/releases

now when i try to pull quay.io/kie-tools/kie-sandbox-image:0.30.0 I see quite some difference between my deployed version and the one which is available on https://sandbox.kie.org/#/

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kogito-development/d09d83a3-be32-4a26-a59c-c351f808f951n%40googlegroups.com.