Newbie questions

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Peter Vágner

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Jul 8, 2016, 5:17:51 AM7/8/16
to Known Developers
Hello,

I've tried to install known at https://pvagner.tk  on my own.

I have some new bie questions related to known and to indieweb in general.

I have configured my web server to redirect non http traffic to https (thx to letsencrypt). To see web mention in action I  used the tool at https://checkmention.appspot.com/ . When testing that tool for the first time I have simply entered pvagner.tk into the login prompt. It allowed me to login however I had issues when performing the actual webmention test. I have received error saying
{"error":"target_not_found","error_text":"The target page http:\/\/pvagner.tk\/2016\/experimenting-with-known-an-indieweb-compliant-publishing-tool-hopefully-ill does not exist."}

If I login using https://pvagner.tk all is fine and webmention test passes.

The question is can I keep redirecting non https traffic to https and if I'll only be using https://pvagner.tk to reference to my site will it work fine for me or what's the best practice here?

When using the webmention testing tool, currently I am only able to login using my twitter account which links back to my site. Can I do something to make indie auth work with my install of Known?

Please if you can, look here at this testing post: https://pvagner.tk/2016/experimenting-with-known-an-indieweb-compliant-publishing-tool-hopefully-ill
The second comment sounds somewhat worying to me is this really an issue?

Finally a few comments on my known install. I'm using lighttpd and php 5.6 cgi, the install went fine, I only had to add a few lighttpd specific rewrite rules.

I can navigate the whole site including account settings, user settings and site configuration. However there is one particular issue specific to my use case. I am blind almost since my birth thus I am relying on assistive technologies while using computers. On Arch linux I am using Firefox and screen reader called orca (part of the gnome desktop), on Android I'm using Firefox and Google Talkback (screen reader built into many Android devices). With both these browser vs AT combinations I can't use the toggles in the account settings and site settings and perhaps elsewhere within Known UI. I've discovered these are html checkboxes turned into toggles by using bootstrap-toggle component. By tinkering more with my Known site I have discovered the overal pleasing accessibility experience most likelly results from Bootstrap Accessibility Plugin being in place as well. For my needs I have simply hacked bootstrap-toggle out of the default theme and the inaccessible toggles became simple but clearly labelled functional checkboxes with no accessibility issues so far.
Making bootstrap-toggle more accessible would mean adding proper semantics to convey the control role such as role=checkbox or role=switch, proper states such as aria-checked and javascript events and css styling that would tie it together by allowing keyboard focus, toggle on the enter / spacebar press. Bootstrap-toggle at least partially covering this are these...
https://github.com/minhur/bootstrap-toggle/issues/85 (last comment suggests moving to the completelly different solution)
https://github.com/minhur/bootstrap-toggle/issues/120
Is this something that might attract your attention? Can you think of how to go about addressing this properly?

This is perhaps most difficult query from me this time.
I can't make up my mind on how to sindicate the posts and notices to twitter and facebook. I am not going to subscribe to Convoy. So what are the options left to me for doing this? I have figured people are using brid.gy . I have read people mentioning plugins and developer accounts on twitter and facebook. I was not able to find more concrete documentation or examples and plugins that might me allow to do this. What is better then. Should I forgot about direct integration from my Known site to Facebook and Twitter? What about brid.gy I know it is a friendly service provided for free leaving as little traces as possible. But still I would expect being able to control this directly. Is this reasonable thing to expect or am I sounding too paranoid here? If I will find suitable plugins and I'll get an inspiration on how to make direct integration configured, can I make it stable or in terms of stability is it better to use brid.gy?

And finally what about reading. Currently I am using simple web based RSS aggregator installed on my own space called Fresh RSS. I am only following a few standard RSS feeds. Can I make this more indieweb compatible?
In general can I somehow get what I appear to be interested in aggregated in a single place and also being able to comment and react on that?
How do I know if I can webmention on something for example when arriving on someone's blog. How do I know I can reply on something posted on the web. Or are the twitter and Facebook only real bridges to the masses when I am new comer to the indieweb like this?
How much is woodwind.xyz relevant here? And again is it a good idea to run self-hosted woodwind?

Excuse me for a lot of questions, I have read several guides on the wiki, but these are things I can't clearly answer for my self, so I'd rather get someone's experienced opinion to be able to decide what next.

Thanks and greetings

Peter

Georg Lehner

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Jul 8, 2016, 11:29:18 AM7/8/16
to know...@googlegroups.com
On 08/07/16 03:17, Peter Vágner wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've tried to install known at https://pvagner.tk on my own.
>
> I have some new bie questions related to known and to indieweb in general.
>
> I have configured my web server to redirect non http traffic to https
> (thx to letsencrypt). To see web mention in action I used the tool at
> https://checkmention.appspot.com/ . When testing that tool for the
> first time I have simply entered pvagner.tk into the login prompt. It
> allowed me to login however I had issues when performing the actual
> webmention test. I have received error saying
> {"error":"target_not_found","error_text":"The target page
> http:\/\/pvagner.tk\/2016\/experimenting-with-known-an-indieweb-compliant-publishing-http:\/\/pvagner.tk\/2016\/experimenting-with-known-an-indieweb-compliant-publishing-tool-hopefully-illtool-hopefully-ill
> does not exist."}
>
> If I login using https://pvagner.tk all is fine and webmention test
> passes.
...

Hello Peter!

I can not answer any of the other questions, but I have a guess about
the first. Since you tell your web server to redirect http to https,
the checkmention tool will receive a "HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently "
reply first. The checkmention tool needs to follow this redirect, if it
doesn't, it might think the page is not there.

I have briefly scanned the source at
https://github.com/kbsriram/checkmention but don't understand
JavaServlets enough to find out for sure. Maybe the author is listening
anyways and can give a hint.

In short words: Maybe your site setup is ok, but checkmention requires
the final url of the post for testing.

Best Regards,

Georg Lehner



Peter Vágner

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Jul 9, 2016, 5:58:11 AM7/9/16
to Georg Lehner, know...@googlegroups.com
Hello,

This is something I'm afraid might work the same way in other libraries.
For example do we know if Known it-self can handle redirects like this when
sending web mentions.

If I will find more evidence that redirecting non https traffic is good
practice then I'll revert it because stream.known.com nor werd.io are doing
this. Or perhaps I'll only redirect if there is no URI after the domain.

Greetings

Peter



Dňa 8. júla 2016 17:29:18 používateľ Georg Lehner <jorge....@gmail.com>
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Ben Werdmüller

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Jul 9, 2016, 6:30:56 PM7/9/16
to Peter Vágner, Georg Lehner, Known Dev

You should make sure that your web server responds with a 307 redirect. 301s and 302s aren't guaranteed to repeat a POST request, and usually won't. A 307 redirect should work with most web client libraries.

Ben


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/known-dev/155cf17b7b0.2759.aae2672e0aef8751b0e5f6e8947c95f4%40gmail.com.

Kyle Mahan

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Jul 9, 2016, 9:38:26 PM7/9/16
to know...@googlegroups.com
Hi Peter,
 
To Ben's point, "target_not_found" is an error from Known itself, so the POST must be making it *to* Known -- I don't think it's a problem with 301 vs. 307 redirects. I suspect the issue is more that Known does not recognize the http://... URL as its own. Checking against my own site (https://known.kylewm.com), I can confirm that http target URLs don't work. I'm surprised but I don't remember this having come up before... (In my python webmention receiver, I handled this by following redirects on the target url). We should probably file a bug in Known's issue tracker.
 
If you do not want to pay for Convoy, the best option for syndicating to Twitter and Facebook is to install Known's Twitter and Facebook plugins. Yes you will need to register "applications" on each of these services to get a client key and secret (visit https://apps.twitter.com/ and https://developers.facebook.com/apps).
 
You *can* syndicate via Bridgy or silo.pub using the IndieSyndicate plugin, but it's a bit experimental and I would recommend trying the official plugins first.
 
Woodwind (disclaimer, I'm the author) is a reader that does more or less what you're describing. You can configure it to post replies, likes, and reposts to your site via micropub. Unlike (most?) other readers, it supports microformats2 h-feeds in addition to RSS and Atom.
 
At this time, I do not recommend people run it locally, though it is possible, and people have done it -- the documentation and install process is not very good unfortunately. Because it's just a small hobby project, it's nowhere near as pretty or polished as something like FreshRSS.
 
I also don't know what the screenreader experience of it is like, but I'd be curious!
 
Cheers,
Kyle
 
For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 


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Peter Vágner

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Jul 11, 2016, 1:35:45 AM7/11/16
to Kyle Mahan, know...@googlegroups.com

Hello Kyle,

Thanks for detailed and clear hints.
I've logged into woodwind, I thinks it's working verry well for me.
There is one little tweak I would like you to add in order to improve the screen reader experience. It's not breaking but nice to have. With each entry there is a comment entry and three buttons. By looking into generated html I've discovered these are Comment, Repost and Like. These buttons appear to have no textual information, they only have images as children. It would be awesome to add alt text properties to these images if you can try doing that in one of the upcoming updates.

I've also installed Facebook and Twitter plugins into my Known site.
I've started with Facebook, I've created an app at their dev center and entered app id and app secret into the facebook configuration on my Known site. When trying to make the Facebook app public as instructed in the Facebook plugin's readme I've difficulties choosing which permissions I need. I have selected a lot of them just by thinking what Facebook features I'm interested in but after seeing I have to fill notes for each of these permissions I guess this is not correct approach. How do I know what to add here?

Thanks once again for the hints. I believe I'm slowly getting there.

Greetings

Peter

Dňa 10. júla 2016 3:38:27 dopoludnia používateľ Kyle Mahan <ky...@kylewm.com> napísal:

Peter Vágner

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Jul 15, 2016, 4:12:38 AM7/15/16
to Kyle Mahan, know...@googlegroups.com

Hello,


I have a bit of an update.


By reading the list archives and experimenting I have got Twitter and Facebook syndication to work.

Do I understant correctly there is currently no way to syndicate likes and reposts to Facebook?

For status updates and posts I can choose to syndicate to facebook however when posting likes and reposts that option is not there. Is this because of Facebook permissions or is this something that has yet to be added in the future?


I have discovered one more little difficult part within WoodWind when it comes to screen reader experience. When commenting, below the Comment, Repost and Like buttons there are simple clickables corresponding with my syndication targets. I can't activate these using the keyboard. Would it make sense to turn these into controls inheriting from toggle button rather keeping it the way it's currently done with custom onClick handler (I guess)?


Is it okay to post things like this or should I try to get this implemented first somehow?



And a final thing. Is there a way to get my twitter replies and retweets to show on my site? Should I be looking at iftt examples discussed here in the past or might there be a better way?

Or alternativelly I would even like approach similar to WoodWind where I can see my twitter timeline and repost / like to my site from there.


Thanks for your patience with me


Greetings


Peter

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