Is knockouts maintained ?

[Yair Lenga]

Hi.

I like knockout, but there has been no updates for some time.

Is there any maintaier ? community effort to keep project going ?

Yair

[Jionghui Luo]

Hi Yair,

I love knockout too. And I used it a lot in my projects. However, it looks like it was rarely maintained for years. And I feel it is time to move on. I have tried out Vue. And I found most stuff in Knockout you can find the equivalents in Vue and Vue made them simpler and better. And vue provides even more. So, if you have not tried Vue, you can probably give it a try. There is a very simple Vue tutorial. It may just take you about a couple of hours and you can get a good sense of it. You can find it here: https://vuejs.org/tutorial/#step-1

Good luck.

Jeffrey

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[Didier Gasser-Morlay]

It is a shame that tko never came to light as knockout 4;

Knockout was easy and straightforward to use, Vue, is good too but comes but is  fairly heavy and is much more opinionated than knockout, but Jeffrey I am afraid you're right, time to move on has come

and to be proficient in Vue takes more than a few hours, but I guess it is worth it.

Didier

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[Julio Di Egidio]

>  I like knockout, but there has been no updates for some time.

KO remains the best by far: even Vue is essentially broken, not

just limited.  KO version 3 works quite well, my advice would be

just stick to it: not to mention, it's open source.

Julio

[Paras Parmar]

I've used knockoutjs, angularjs, angular. The problem is that all of them have so much ceremony they actually slow you down when you need to get work done via teams. 

Recently we barely pushed a project that would have taken 6 to 8 months to a year max. We took a total of 2 years and some creative outsourcing to push about 60% of our scope to the client. Yes, we still have about 40% more to deliver. 

It's pushed our organization to its limits in terms of financial, manpower and willpower. 

Kind guesses anyone! we used Angular + Infragistics and aggraved it with our Waterfall culture.

In my experience, I've completed such projects in 8 months with KnockoutJS before. Taught developers the basics in a week flat and then let them loose on the requirements. Less than 11 months of development and barely a year passed since we inked the deal and delivered the damned thing in my past. 

With Angular, we re-trained developers for a solid 6 months, all the while the requirements were being firmed up and documented. I'm not saying its all the languages fault. It's our culture as well, but the language has a way of amplifying the faultlines and causing earthquakes where earlier we would have had tremors.

In my considered judgement, we should have picked KO considering our susceptibility to multiple revisions and U-Turns. I did warn them multiple times and was sidelined for being Cassandra.

It would have been cheaper and our reputation would not lie in tatters. 

[Julio Di Egidio]

On Wednesday, 22 March 2023 at 15:05:51 UTC+1 Paras Parmar wrote:

> I've used knockoutjs, angularjs, angular. The problem is that all of them

> have so much ceremony they actually slow you down when you
> need to get work done via teams.

While I agree with the general sentiment of your considerations,

allow me to make some crucial points clear:

KO vs Angular is apples and oranges: KO works from the data

binding down, Angular is from the HTML up (essentially), and they

rather work quite well together.  Even KO vs Vue is not even fair:

Vue may cover the data-binding part, there is no such thing as a

clear and usable notion of observability per se.

But indeed the great merit of KO, as a tool to build the *logic* of

an interactive interface is:

1) that it doesn't mess up and invert all layers (you don't find yourself

writing HTML inside JS!), which is really a capital and foundational sin

no other framework has refrained to commit, and that entails not only

a sane and maintainable architecture and implementation, but also

and immediately that the separation of responsibilities and teams is

in fact facilitated and natural!

and that's just the two-way binding, then 2) observability is even more

important as it is not simply relevant to the interactive interface: we

can build any *interactive component* with it, up to full-fledged MVC

(note: MVC is in fact the father of them all, MVVM, MVP, etc.), which

is THE right way to build interactive anything.

Overall it is the right tool for that job!

Of course it is not all roses, KO indeed could benefit from some

strengthening of the various abstractions and interfaces and

extensibility points, but already the competent programmer can

do everything with it, plus, as said, source code is on GitHub...

Julio

[LG Song]

Knockout is great, I had similar experience with Paras. I taught knockout to a few developers for a few weeks. They can quickly grasp the idea of knockout and I just let them loose. The productivity is always great. I don't have to spend time to track down the issues caused by the framework/library itself.

However, with the development of the modern front end development, it is hard to find people who want to learn vanilla Javascript any more. I start exploring the alternatives. I would like to recommend https://www.solidjs.com/

According to @ryansolid Ryan Carniato - the author of solidjs on this article

My library Solid is like a modern re-interpretation of Knockout.

The performance is really amazing. Consistently on top of the benchmark ranks.

[Jared Broad]

We love KnockOut, but curious why you think Vue is essentially broken @Julio?

I'm at a tough point as hiring KO developers is becoming too hard, we can't grow our team. I'm considering converting our large-KO application to React or Vue...

[Derek]

try hiring Javascript developers 

good luck!

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[Dmitriy Sintsov]

Knockout operates well with third-party JS libraries, while virtual DOM approach of Vue / React enforces to use their own components only. Also, when using bindings in Jinja2 templates, Knockout does not require curly braces syntax. While Vue templates conflicts with Jinja2 curly braces. data-bind attributes are the most non-conflicting and natural in HTML / XML / template engine sources. Also Knockout can be easily bound only to selective parts of the DOM page, while some another libraries (Aurelia) want to bind to the whole HTML page automatically.

I dream to move from Knockout to Svelte, although it has some drawbacks as well (requires node.js).

Wish Knockout was updated to es modules, there was Tko port but it was not able to process my nested 'with' bindings.