Why some people are married from other community

[benitta jacob]

i think people are going and marring from other community because they havent got the base and they dont know how special is being a kna. they dont know the value of being a kna and they dont value it. namukku vendathavara namukkum venda. but future generationil nammuda okka during the catechism classes once in a while they have to teach about our tradition its importance blablanla... it can sometimes improve this

[ansu c]

Hi Benitta

 

 

i dont think having a "base"  in kna will take you to heaven...by the by what is the purpose of our life in this world?? Even if we have a base in kna but dont know the word of God which is the path way to heaven. I reckon the life in earth is so short and it is an oppurtunity for us to do godly things while we are here and not to feel special in being kna and not knowing the word of god.

 

I have my sister married outside kna but I cant find any mistake in that when they live a good life knowing the word of God. I would like to see more kna priest telling the word of God rather than telling the greatness of kna.

 

Can I ask you benitta what can traditions give you ...can it give you peace of mind, happiness , and much more which you can only get from the word of God. 

 

Thanks

Ansu
 

[chacko punnoose]

You haven't mentioned about the need to continue as  a knanaya person. It is a privilege to hold on to the great heritage you have. Former Archbishop late Cardinal Croll addressed The Christmas Ce liberation of the Indian Churches in Philadelphia and asked the Malayalee Community "try to hold on the heritage you have. We lost the great heritages we had  as the generation passed on". When you are living in an unfriendly environment, any thing could happen. It is sad to hear that one third of the Knanaya Catholics living in the States are no more 'knanaya' but just 'kna'. It is their decision when they were living in India. If that is the situation how much less you can expect from the first generation?

It is a reality that the first generation and even the 'one and half' change themselves when they grow up; want to do just the opposite of what their parents ask them to do.

Peer pressure, to have friends from the other sex etc. drag them from the 'ideal' status.

There is another reality that every body - all FOBs and ABCD face. there is not much to choose. Five girls for two boys and in Washington DC, 20 girls for one boy.

Every body want to have family life and if they can't find a guy, What should they do? Go and become a Nun? When such opportunities are limited they will go for Masters- nothing else to do.

Tens and hundreds are out there with Masters and Doctorate, but desperate to find a suitable partner. How much they have to sacrifice to get an 'unsuitable' partner from India? -a lot.

Statistics shows that 90 percent of the marriages are in failure if the girl is the one who went to India and got married. This is a fact that is applicable to ALL Indians.

Who want to have divorce in their life and marry some body else later? It is a tragedy.

 

 

So I strongly recommend:

1.Try to find a kna girl/boy at the earliest for your child and let them to talk.

2.Encourage them to know the history of the early Immigrants who lost generations and heritage in the US.

3. Change the priority of the Church- from politics to Spirituality

4. Change the concept from  'Pride' + 'Liquor' = 'Knanaya'  to  'Knanaya = Integrity'

5.  Teach the kids that 'you don't have to be among a few to who break the  tradition' and help them to take a decision that 'I will be the last person to break the tradition'

6. If some one can't find a right partner after their search, let them marry another Christian and lead a christian life. Knanaya Community will survive many more millenniums. 

benitta jacob <benitt...@googlemail.com> wrote:

i think people are going and marring from other community because they havent got the base and they dont know how special is being a kna. they dont know the value of being a kna and they dont value it. namukku vendathavara namukkum venda. but future generationil nammuda okka during the catechism classes once in a while they have to teach about our tradition its importance blablanla... it can sometimes improve this

---

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[K.J.Philip]

Hi Ansu,
knanaya is not a religion. Its only a community. So no point in
comparing them.

One only 'happens' to be born as a knanite by factors beyond his
control. He cannot change this.

Being a knanaya doesn't prevent you from being a pious one.

We should not live only for the life after life. we are supposed
to live here too. This is the plan of God.

So if anybody feels 'special' about anything in this world, it
could be of being knanaya too. There is nothing sinful/ wrong about it
because a knanite's ancestry is unique, distinct and special. Its only
a fact. I will never say he should feel to be superior anyway.

KJ Philip

[joyson kuriakose]

I DO AGREE WITH ANSU,

 

FURTHER WHAT WE NEED IS MORE DISCIPLINE ,DEVOTIONS,ALSO ECCONOMIC POWER.SINCE WE ARE COMMUNITEY , WITH IN  A  COMMUNITEY.AND TO IDENTIFY

AS A SEPERATE ,THE ONLY WAY IS TO  ACHIEVE THAT .... IS OUR ECONOMIC POWER. I FEEL MARTHOMITES IS AHEAD THAN US IN THIS DIRECTIONS..

WE SHOULD LOOK,JEWS, OR PARSIS  FOR THIER ECCNOMIC GROWTH.

 

LET US ACCOMPOLISH OUR  RESPONSIBILITIES IN THIS WORLD FIRST..BY GOOD

DEEDS, THEN LOOK FOR HEAVENLEY THINGS..(REFER  GOOD SAMARITANS

STORY.IF YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON,YOU ARE ALSO A GOOD KNA.....AND NOBODY

LIKES TO HEAR THAT """"HE IS GOOD KNA..BUT AS A PERSON ..VERY BAD....

 

 

REGARDS TO ALL,

 

K.JOYSON

ERANAKULAM.

ansu c <ans...@gmail.com> wrote:

---

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[Roji M. Mathew]

That was a sure shot!  well said.
 
To know the Lord's word is MUCH more important!
 
Prayers,
Roji Mavelil

---

Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:00:28 +1100
From: ans...@gmail.com
To: knanay...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

i think people are going and marring from other community because they havent got the base and they dont know how special is being a kna. they dont know the value of being a kna and they dont value it. namukku vendathavara namukkum venda. but future generationil nammuda okka during the catechism classes once in a while they have to teach about our tradition its importance blablanla... it can sometimes improve this <br

[jose joseph]

 
Dear Ansu,

I fully agree with your views. I have already received plenty of
views on this. But out of these, I feel, yours is the
best meaningful one. The best thing which we can do is FOLLOW THE
WORDS TAUGHT BY OUR PARENTS.

Best wishes - Tomy Joseph (Onasseril) /  Calcutta
+++++++++++++++

[Kuruvilla P. Kurian]

Dear Benitta,

 

The Word of God is Jesus Christ.  Jesus said I love thouse who follow and do as per the Commandment of my Father.  One of The commandment of God is "In you to have long life honour your father and mother".  You are obeying the commandment of God by following the instruction of your your parents - your forefathers - who taught you "Hinduvil poyalum makkale ningale padu mariyathirikkenam appozhum"  (which means in if you are going to India you should not change your heridity).  There are people who talks much about the word of god without knowing the meaning of it.

 

We are people who respect our forefathers and their teachings through who we learned about the Almighty.  We are obedient to the Alighty.  We trust and believe and we try to be high children to the maximum we can.  We trust sincerely that out God loves us.  We do belive that our deeds (which are always stained with dirt - the Holy Bible says) are not the way for the salvation but it His amoundant mercy that brings us salvation.  He paid His blood for our salvation and that is why we are saved.  If anybody believes vise versa they are in the darkness. 

 

There are some who says We Knanaites (not kna only) are away from God.  We pitty on them and say we are not for a show of our love for our God but we sincerely love Him who gave even the lat drop of blood for us and we entrust ourself in to His mighty Hands as His children we trust for sure He loves us.

 

At the same time we tell them that if you don't want to continue in the community of Knanaites, leave us who is compelling you.

 

Dear Benitta, I am happy to see that you feel satisfied to be known as a Knanaite.

 

with brotherly love

KURUVILLA POZHIMANNIL KURIAN

-----Original Message-----
From: knanay...@googlegroups.com [mailto:knanay...@googlegroups.com]On Behalf Of ansu c
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:00 PM
To: knanay...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

[jinu george]

hi ansu,

In order to keep your knanaya traditions u  dont have to sacrifice the 'word of God'. You can be a true christian at the same time can be a 'true knanaya'. they r not contradictory in nature;

traditions (what kind it may be) are of great value for the

mental and social growth of a human being. 

let me ask you one question, you wont attend any

malayali association functions, if you are living outside kerala..? what you are gaining from those kind of gatherings...??? will it give you peace of mind, happiness etc.??

so every kind of traditions are having its own values.

do not try to mix up faith and traditions.. one kna can be a good christian also..

so proud being a knanaya

thanks

jinu

 

ansu c <ans...@gmail.com> wrote:

---

Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we have it.

[Joseph Vilangattuseril]

I agree with you Mr. Phillip. Knanaya is just a culture. It shouldn't affect your religious beliefs at all. I also agree that we should live this life happily and if being knanaya is what makes you happy in this life you should stick with it. You can be of many cultures and still live a good christian life. That's what being knanaya is. A culture that has the same religion and prefers to stay together. Is anything wrong with that?

> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:38:22 +0530
> From: kjphi...@gmail.com

> To: knanay...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community
>
>

[Thomas Elias Paarel]

Dearest Knanaya Brethren,

 

The Taheb or Shaheb is not exactly the Messiah, but he is to perform Messianic functions, inaugurating the era of the return of God's favour to Israel, the Rahuta. He will be Prophet, Priest and King, over the "Second Kingdom". In his time will be fulfilled the promise to Phineas, whose righteous priestly seed has been kept hidden away in absolute purity and sanctity during the period of Fanuta ( the turning away from God's favour). The pure priests will be brought back by God to perform their office, just as the lost original Scroll of the Law will be revealed from its hiding place . The Taheb, the Perfect Man, restorer of God's favour, will come out of the desert. He will be the tribe of Levi. His birth will be announced by the rise of a new and everlasting star in the heavens. At the same time a high priest of the line of Phineas will appear, who like Enoch had been translated to heaven; and he will serve in the new temple on Mt. Gerizim. At the age of 120 years the Taheb will die, and will be buried by the sacred mount. Over his grave the star of his advent will continue to shine.

 

The above is a passage I have read today from a book 'The Essene Odyssey' written by Hugh Schonfield (Chapter six page 42).. 

 

Can anybody give me an idea as to which original writing is the above underlined passage found and what is deduced out of this and what is the Samaritan tenth Commandment..  

 

I have always maintained for many years till now, that the Knanaya people have been kept in hibernation by God in very safe lands from time to time, away from any kind of persecution for 2000 years for a definite purpose.. Thereby they were able to retain their absolute purity and sanctity by the endogamous practices as desired of them by God  They are the carriers of the Law as designated by the Father and later by Yeshu - the son, as being the selected 72 from time to time.. The number 72 stands for the number of the preservers..

 

Can some of us discuss further on this subject for a better understanding of us and our purpose as Knanaya..

 

 

Love,

 

Thomas Elias Paarel

Paruthicattu - Maalithara - Paarel, Neelamperoor

St. George Valiyapalli - Neelamperoor

St. George Knanaya Syrian Church - Bangalore    

 

[Ivan baby]

"randu kannullappol athinte vila aryilla".......like wise when you are a Knanaya you may not realise the value...think it over before you are abandoning Knanaya community by wedlock. Wait patiently you all find suitable match from Kna community itself. However all the young adults must be submissive to Lord God and pray for your need. You will be successful and  will  get  the  right  match.

"K.J.Philip" <kjphi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Ansu,
knanaya is not a religion. Its only a community. So no point in
comparing them.

One only 'happens' to be born as a knanite by factors beyond his
control. He cannot change this.

Being a knanaya doesn't prevent you from being a pious one.

We should not live only for the life after life. we are supposed
to live here too. This is the plan of God.

So if anybody feels 'special' about anything in this world, it
could be of being knanaya too. There is nothing sinful/ wrong about it
because a knanite's ancestry is unique, distinct and special. Its only
a fact. I will never say he should feel to be superior anyway.


KJ Philip

On 12/5/07, ansu c wrote:
> Hi Benitta
>
>
> i dont think having a "base" in kna will take you to heaven...by the by
> what is the purpose of our life in this world?? Even if we have a base in
> kna but dont know the word of God which is the path way to heaven. I reckon
> the life in earth is so short and it is an oppurtunity for us to do godly
> things while we are here and not to feel special in being kna and not
> knowing the word of god.
>
> I have my sister married outside kna but I cant find any mistake in that
> when they live a good life knowing the word of God. I would like to see more
> kna priest telling the word of God rather than telling the greatness of kna.
>
> Can I ask you benitta what can traditions give you ...can it give you peace
> of mind, happiness , and much more which you can only get from the word of
> God.
>
> Thanks
> Ansu
>

> On 12/2/07, benitta jacob wrote:
> > i think people are going and marring from other community because they
> havent got the base and they dont know how special is being a kna. they dont
> know the value of being a kna and they dont value it. namukku vendathavara
> namukkum venda. but future generationil nammuda okka during the catechism
> classes once in a while they have to teach about our tradition its
> importance blablanla... it can sometimes improve this
> > >
> >
>

---

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[Binoj Chacko]

Hi all,

 

first of all thx 4 adding me to dis group....

 

to be frank.. being a knananite i feel proud.... we can oppose or agree vth the customs n rules of dis society.. bt we cant ignore..... c, watever v say, thrers smthing tied all of us, it may b de feeling dat v all r a family.

 

i too dont agree vth the rules such as marrriage within de cast only... bt when it comes to my marriage or any of my kna fnds i feel frm inside dat we shud mary a kna only.. Y ?? it may b becoz v all love to be kna forever.. n we dont wanna go out from dis sweet idiotic rules......

 

same time v cant ignore de fact, dat gals are short in our community.. i know many of my frnds r still searching for a suitable choice for de last many years.... its is not only bcz of de shortage of gals bt de attitude of glas n deir parents...

 

a lot of things to share vth all u... vl share later....

 

thx

 

binoj t chacko

[Joy Thomas]

Be a good Samarian and be a good neibour, that is the best thing we can do as a christian. I don't like that people are saying that " I am a Kna or I am vadakkan and thekkan. Be a good man or woman and let others say that he/she is a good christian. What we are doing now that our children we follow.

---

Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:55:58 +0530
From: thoma...@gmail.com

i think people are going and marring from other community because they havent got the base and they dont know how special is being a kna. they dont know the value of being a kna and they dont value it. namukku vendathavara namukkum venda. but future generationil nammuda okka during the catechism classes once in a while they have to teach about our tradition its importance blablanla... it can sometimes improve this <br <br

[jaison john]

Dear Thomas,
What you have described is purely non-biblical.It is
taken from a book .As such this is just coincidental
.and utter nonsense.Non bibilical statements must
never be twisted to give sanctity.May the revered
Bishop of Kottayam express his view on what you have
said

Jaison

--- Thomas Elias Paarel <thoma...@gmail.com> wrote:

> *Dearest Knanaya Brethren,*
> **

> The Taheb or Shaheb is not exactly the Messiah, but
> he is to perform

> Messianic functions, *inaugurating* the era of the

> return of God's favour to

> Israel, the *Rahuta*. *He will be Prophet, Priest

> and King, over the "Second
> Kingdom". In his time will be fulfilled the promise
> to Phineas, whose
> righteous priestly seed has been kept hidden away in
> absolute purity and
> sanctity during the period of Fanuta ( the turning
> away from God's

> favour).The pure priests will be brought back by God

> to perform their
> office, just
> as the lost original Scroll of the Law will be
> revealed from its hiding

> place .* The Taheb, the Perfect Man, restorer of

> God's favour, will come out
> of the desert. He will be the tribe of Levi. His
> birth will be announced by
> the rise of a new and everlasting star in the
> heavens. At the same time a
> high priest of the line of Phineas will appear, who
> like Enoch had been
> translated to heaven; and he will serve in the new
> temple on Mt. Gerizim. At
> the age of 120 years the Taheb will die, and will be
> buried by the sacred
> mount. Over his grave the star of his advent will
> continue to shine.
>
> The above is a passage I have read today from a book
> 'The Essene
> Odyssey' written by Hugh Schonfield (Chapter six
> page 42)..
>
> Can anybody give me an idea as to which original
> writing is the above

> underlined passage found and *what is deduced out of

> this and what is
> the Samaritan

> tenth Commandment..* * *
> **

> I have always maintained for many years till now,
> that the Knanaya people
> have been kept in hibernation by God in very safe
> lands from time to
> time, away from any kind of persecution for 2000
> years for a
> definite purpose.. Thereby they were able to retain

> their *absolute purity
> and sanctity* by the endogamous practices as desired

> of them by God They
> are the carriers of the Law as designated by the
> Father and later by Yeshu
> - the son, as being the selected 72 from time to
> time.. The number 72 stands
> for the number of the preservers..
>
> Can some of us discuss further on this subject for a
> better understanding of
> us and our purpose as Knanaya..
>
> Love,
>
> Thomas Elias Paarel
> Paruthicattu - Maalithara - Paarel, Neelamperoor
> St. George Valiyapalli - Neelamperoor
> St. George Knanaya Syrian Church - Bangalore
>
>
>
>
> On 12/8/07, Roji M. Mathew <rojim...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > That was a sure shot! well said.
> >
> > To know the Lord's word is MUCH more important!
> >
> > Prayers,
> > Roji Mavelil
> >
> >

> > ------------------------------

> > On 12/2/07, *benitta jacob*

> <benitt...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > i think people are going and marring from other
> community because they
> > havent got the base and they dont know how special
> is being a kna. they dont
> > know the value of being a kna and they dont value
> it. namukku vendathavara
> > namukkum venda. but future generationil nammuda
> okka during the catechism
> > classes once in a while they have to teach about
> our tradition its
> > importance blablanla... it can sometimes improve
> this <br
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________

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[berlit punnoose]

Whenever and wherever two or more Kinanites* get together, there arises an increased sense of belonging, comfort and identity between them. Departing gets delayed, conversations never end, like when old classmates meet. The cementing force that binds us and gives us this feeling of being part of a big picture puzzle can be rightly attributed to one core custom, namely, endogamy. By definition, endogamy is the practice of "marriage within a particular group, caste, class, or tribe in accordance with set custom or law". Endogamy and Kinanayism* are inseparable. No one needs to reestablish this tradition. Even before the diocese of Kottayam was created for Kinanites, endogamy had been an established tradition for over 16 centuries. And this is bound to continue within or without the diocese.
Endogamy is perhaps one of the most emotionally charged and controversial issues we Kinanites face today. A good number of our youngsters and some of our adults are unsure about the relevance and future of endogamy. Those of us who have become used to thinking that the latest and newest are the best have less appreciation for the old or traditional. However, no tradition survives unless it has proven its worth over time. Endogamy is one such time-honored tradition. Its success in enhancing marital happiness and Christian family life should encourage all Kinanaya parents to present to their children the ABCs of endogamy.
What is endogamy all about? Is it relevant today as we enter the 21st century? Does it face a bleak future? Let us take a look at it from all angles. This discussion may prove useful to the present and future Kinanaya youth irrespective of whether they are growing up in North America or elsewhere. Hopefully, this will help them make up their mind more objectively about a most crucial life decision rather than feel compelled by the weight of traditions. Parents and elders may find this helpful to prepare them to discuss these very personal and timely issues with their near and dear ones in the privacy and comfort of their own homes. We, as a community, can also help shape our destiny in the coming century by critically evaluating whether this practice has served us well in the past and what it will do for us in the future.
ORIGIN: Biblical & Historical
Biblical tracings of endogamy take us to the days of one of the most illustrious and chosen forefathers from the Old Testament, Patriarch Abraham. The story is told of an elderly Abraham sending his servant under oath to his own native land and to his kindred to get a wife for his son Isaac. As you may recall, Rebekah was the woman thus chosen (Genesis: 24). We Kinanites trace our roots to Abraham. For example, look at the unique custom and wording used for the blessing given to youngsters and relatives by Kinanaya elders when on their death bed, "The blessing which God gave Abraham . . . I give to you".
Historically, there are two references. These are from two of our ancient songs, "Purathanappattukal." As most of us know, this collection of songs is among the few sources available to trace the history of Kinanites. Even though these songs were written probably several centuries later, the poets based their works on our traditions and folklore. The immigration song, "Nallororshlaym", narrates that before embarking on the ships, the emigrants with Thomas Kinayi "went to Ezra and obtained blessings" ( EzaRayil pukkavananugraham kaikonDu /). Prophet Ezra (also known as Uraha) was held in high esteem by both Jews and Muslims, the principal inhabitants of the area besides Babylonian Jewish Christians. The blessings received from the shrine of Ezra's tomb exhort us to guard against intermarriage. Bible shows that Ezra insisted on pure lineage and denounced mixed marriages. Ezra believed that marriage outside the community will lead to apostasy or desertion of one's faith and religious beliefs. (Ezra 9, 10)
The second set of references are from the popular song "Innu nee njagaLay" ()and the passages are (a) "Remember, do not sunder relations" ( BendhangaL vairveeDa-thorkuNa-maypozhum) and (b) "Do not turn away from faith ( PaadumaRiyaathirikkeNum ninghaLum).
On the face of the above, we are able to counter a number of allegations, such as that endogamy is not a Jewish tradition, that this tradition, considered by some as the tribal allegiance to blood, would have been abhorrent to early Christian evangelists, and, that this adoption occurred only after the 'sanskritization' of Kerala during the tenth century when, allegedly, Kinanites slowly transferred themselves into a clannish subcaste, following the Hindu social hierarchy. However, it may be safe to assume that the Hindu customs made it easy for Kinanites to practice their eliefs.
WHY ENDOGAMY?
The blessings that endogamy brings with it can be looked upon as different faces of a four dimensional (length, breadth, depth and essence) picture. Each one of these, supplements and complements the other. It is the combined effect that is compelling; if taken alone, each one may be found elsewhere.
Perhaps the foremost reason to continue practicing endogamy is preservation of the purity of our faith. There is every reason to believe that some of the great-grandparents of the original 400 immigrants of AD 345 to Kerala were contemporaries of Jesus Christ. As such, they may have heard him in person and experienced the miracles performed by him. These Christians are therefore described as of exemplary faith. In order to ensure the success of their evangelical mission and preserve the luster of their faith, the immigrants and their descendants insisted on marrying from within their own community. Prophet Ezra's denunciation of mixed marriages and his advice to adhere to pure lineage may also have left an indelible impression on the minds of these people. Thus, it is conceivable that the practice of endogamy among Kinanites in Kerala began as a means to an end, namely, the preservation of the purity of the Christian faith. With the passage of time, the original focus may have been lost raising doubts about whether we are Christians or Kinanites first.
Even though there exists great similarity in the way Kerala Catholics or St. Thomas Christians in general view and practice our faith, the harmony is never as pronounced as it is among fellow Kinanites. Remember, the identity of views helps to strengthen our faith in our Christian beliefs. Its importance will become clear when we begin our most responsible job: raising our own children on a sound, moral and Christian religious foundation. The greater the identity between the husband and the wife, the easier this task is.
Scientific studies by the psychologist Holland and many others have shown that marital harmony and happiness is at its best when there is good compatibility between the spouses' personality types and the characteristics of the environment. Since Kinanites as a community share many special habits, customs and traditions, chances of striking greater compatibility are naturally greater among members of our community. Proof of this is evident among new and old Kinanaya couples alike: the ease to blend in with their families and the community from the first day of their marriage is uniformly high.
What is the real meaning of compatibility? Compatibility is much more than physical matching or having similar tastes; it is much deeper. The religious beliefs and values we grew up with, the lifestyles and habits we are accustomed to, the social norms and mores: sharing all these are very important towards making our lives satisfying and happy.
Avoiding potential quarrels between spouses is all the more relevant today than ever before. This is because we now face more challenging times than the societies in which many of us grew up. Stresses at work, health factors, familial/parental responsibilities, social and material demands, economic pressures, and the loss of the stable support system (i.e., close family and friends) most of us were used to: all these place a great burden on each one of us and tend to destabilize our lives. To prevent us from crumbling under, to carry on our responsibilities honorably and satisfactorily, we need to conserve our resources in life. We must not waste our energy. Through marriage, we need to establish a sound partnership and friendship with someone from a most trusted and reliable source. How can we make the best choice? How can we reduce the risks surrounding one of the most important decisions of our lives? Fortunately, we can turn to a system that proved its worthiness and reliability for well over 16 centuries.
The thoroughness and the ease with which one can do the needed 'homework' in preparation for a marital alliance is yet another factor that strongly favors endogamy. Let us not forget that misplaced secrecy, undue haste and a blind faith can prove to be disastrous when marriage proposals are being seriously considered. Unlike revelations of 'skeletons in the closet' experienced by some in the west even after years of dating and sometimes cohabitation, a check on a potential Kinanaya bride or bridegroom is relatively easy even today. Often a phone call to a selected few may be all that it takes to give you a sufficiently detailed background history. To many of us, the stories of our family trees are an open book. Many among our people know enough of each other to come up with an intelligent guess as to the compatibility of a potential couple even before more serious talks can begin.
We are often told that a Kinanaya marriage is the envy of others, not in terms of pomp and splendor, but in its spiritual content and communal bonding. Every Kinanaya wedding celebration evolves into an intimate social event. No time is needed to befriend or socialize. The customary rituals that precede and follow the church wedding are equally heart-warming, memorable and significant for the couples and the families. There are few places on earth where you find such thoughtfulness, warmth and sense of security.
Wise men save for a rainy day; they build an egg nest for use when in need. This wise practice comes alive in the tradition of endogamy. This is the essence of the fourth dimension. Often it is unseen in good times. When two Kinanites get married, it is more than just the union of two eligible youngsters. It is the coming together of two families along with their close relatives and friends. They want to assure them all prosperity. Yes, at the marriage they are there to rejoice and celebrate with you. And they are also there if and when you need help. Quarrels and differences of opinion etc. invariably do develop during the course of every married life. In industrialized societies, we always seem to be on the run. Sometimes, the courts have to step in to settle marital disputes. The professional counselor may be used. We Kinanites have been able to do things differently. Our parents, relatives and friends often help see that the small fires are put out in time. Or more appropriately, the couples jointly or singly often feel comfortable to seek out the advice or intervention of the elders proactively. They thus take charge before things get out of hand. This collective responsibility to preserve the integrity of marriage is definitely a boon to the Kinanaya people. Who wouldn't like to own this 'hazard insurance' which endogamy entitles you to?
SOME PERCEIVED DISADVANTAGES & VOICED CRITICISM
No social system is ever perfect. We must therefore look at the shortcomings so we can continually strive to overcome them or at least try to minimize their impact.
The most commonly pointed out drawback of endogamy is that our genetic pool is relatively small and therefore not very fertile or healthy. This is more a fantasy than a fact. Today we are a 200,000 plus strong community (Catholics & Orthodox) Historically speaking, the original missionary group of 400 immigrants belonging to 72 families were selected from seven different clans or stocks. A profile of our community can boast of leaders and men of distinction from every walk of life. There is no scientific evidence to demonstrate that our community shows a higher than average number of people with birth defects, mental illnesses or any other genetic aberrations.
That we suffer from a small pool of eligible youngsters for marriage, thus offering a very limited choice, is perhaps the loudest of all the complaints. In fact there is some merit to this. Until a few years ago, news of potential candidates was, by and large, by word of mouth. Since the forties and more prominently since the seventies, our people have spread out to every nook and corner of the globe. Our recent material progress and dispersion did bring with it some undesirable outcomes. The need for two-income families are more widespread than ever. More often, we also rush to find a spouse and to hold the wedding as quickly as we can. All these have caused a break down in personal and communal relationships.
Some solutions are in the making. Recently in Kottayam, we have established a formal worldwide registry of potential candidates. This new set-up needs a firm footing, a sound infrastructure, international accessibility and above all reliability and reputation to allow it to grow and fully develop. With good coordination, leadership, patronage and suggestions from and utilization by all sections of our people spread all over the world, it can and will fulfill its intended mission as a starting point or as an adjunct to the traditional modes of match-making.
A third deficiency usually presented is that we stand deprived of our potential to enlarge our circle of friends and social relationships and increase networking. But how does this result from the practice of endogamy? Do all social interactions or alliances begin or end with marriages? Our circle of friends or social contacts depend on our personality and our family's needs and abilities. Endogamy has no major part in building and/or maintaining our popularity and network. Practicing endogamy does not restrict us from making friends with others in the other communities in which we live.
Yet another criticism of endogamy is that our current population is not what it should have been. They argue that demographically, if all the immigrants of the Thomas Kinayi group were endogamous, our present population would have been in the millions. What is the substance of this argument? Are they claiming that the majority of our people deserted us? Nobody claims that each and every living descendant of the original immigrants has remained endogamous. Attrition from our community has occurred throughout these long sixteen centuries. And this will continue, and we will continue to honor their choices. But we also expect them to do the same. The reality is plain and simple: our future lies in our will and not in numbers. Our survival depends on our determination.
A few contend that endogamy is an extension of the Hindu caste system along with its evils into our community. Fortunately, this is far from the truth. However, a clear distinction must be drawn between casteism and ethnicity. Casteism creates class consciousness and is therefore devisive; ethnicity fosters fraternity. Kinanayism promotes unity based on blood relationship and ancestry.
Another serious criticism of endogamy is that it is unhelpful to God's call to a sacred duty, namely, that of spreading the word of God and to love one another. Unfortunately, our work to popularize Christ's mission on earth has not been publicized enough.
Our community, right from its first missionary voyage of AD 345 to the present time, has actively supported evangelisation efforts through both manpower and material resources. A large number of our people have, at all times, responded to the call of vocations. We continue to serve as religious personnel all over the world in various capacities. Well over a thousand of our members have served in the missions during the past few decades. This missionary zeal is even brighter today: out of 360 Kinanaya priests, 136 are diocesan priests, while 224 are missionaries. The jewel on the crown of our missionary work is Bishop Abraham Virutha- kulangara, of Khandwa diocese in Madhya Pradesh. He is from our Kallara parish. In 1986, our diocese established the Missionary Society of Pius X exclusively for various activities related to evangelisation outside our community. Very recently, the synod of the Syro-Malabar Church has selected our diocese to adopt the mission eparchy of Rajkot headed by Mar Gregory Karotemprel (who has been named Apostolic Visitor to North America.)
Secondly, we cannot assume that successful conversion to Christianity can be assured by letting the new converts marry within our community. Successful conversion can occur without marital bonds. I would like to share a personal experience. The year was 1944. World War II was raging. I was very young. There was widespread famine and unemployment in coastal Kerala. Poor people fled to the midland in search of food and shelter. A mother and her two young daughters aged 10 and 12 years, all ill and malnourished sought refuge at our home. The mother was suffering from elephantiasis. They belonged to a "backward" community. My parents and grandmother took them in, and nursed them to good health. We were able to educate the young girls and employ all of them. Eventually, they embraced Catholicism. When the time came, we were able to arrange for their marriage to young men from very similar backgrounds. The mutual bonds and love we have with these families are still strong even after a lapse of over forty years. They are still good Christians.
Our community's pioneering efforts under the late Bishop Chulaparambil to bring about reconciliation with members of the Syrian Orthodox Church in the 1920s did yield some good returns. Leaders like the late Archbishop Ivanios (Trivandrum) and Thomas Mar Deocores, the late Metropolitan of Chingavanom (a Kinanite) were directly influenced by our bishop. Today, we have grown to 14 parishes under the Malankara rite to accommodate all those who chose to return to the Church of Rome. We are thus a unique community in that we are the only diocese with two distinctly different rites, the Syro- Malabar and Syro-Malankara.
Some critics question the purity of our race. They refer to stories of Thomas Kinayi marrying an Indian lady for a second wife. They contend that similarities in facial or physical features (physiognomy) between many of our members with the Dravidian race prove their point. But then, all of us know someone in our community who has naturally reddish hair. This occurrence throughout the community refutes claims that our gene pool has been diluted. If it had been, this trait would surely have been lost. So, even if we were to make use of modern testing procedures including DNA, the veracity of this criticism is neither easy to prove nor disprove. Further it is very unlikely that we as a community would take pains to preserve our heritage and separate identity all through these 1600-odd years, if we disbelieved our ancestry.
One final criticism is that the continued preservation of this exclusive ethnicity is self serving. The claim is that, using this, Kinanites have been able to extract socio- political bargains in Kerala during the past few decades. Is this inherently wrong? No, certainly not. Minorities are, by constitution, afforded certain protections and privileges. Further, why did it become a necessity for us and Bishop Makil and the two other bishops of the Syro-Malabar rite to petition Rome and create a separate eparchy in 1911? Will many of our people have received collegiate education had we not had our own colleges? Historically, every human race did what it could to protect its interests and meet their needs. Exploitation and injustice are what we must avoid at all costs; safeguarding our rights is our duty.
STREAMLINING THE SYSTEM
Endogamy as a tradition and Kinanaya as a community can be preserved and perpetuated only if a sizable number of our members do honor it now and therefore wish to retain it. No doubt, there is room for modernization and revitalization of what we have been practicing for the past many centuries. Let it not lose its credibility or allow the blame to fall upon the system. Here are a few suggestions to consider.
1.Parental advice & planning
Action has to begin at home and early on in life. Only committed parents, grandparents and elders can do a good job. Preferably and more convincingly, the children also need to see and experience the above described beneficial effects firsthand in their own homes. Parents and youngsters must jointly plan their future in a timely and responsible manner. A search of three to six months or even one year for a spouse may not always give satisfying choices.
2. Eliminating Biases & Prejudices
Many parents and many more of our youth are unfavorably biased or have mixed feelings about boys and girls from the other hemisphere. There are some adjustment problems, or more appropriately, there is need for opportunities to learn about the other culture. In reality, these are not too difficult to overcome. We must not be blinded by our preconceived images. All boys and girls growing up in the West do not have loose morals or live-in friends. All boys from India are not ultraconservatives and unhelpful with household chores. Our searches excluding the other hemisphere do leave us poorer with fewer choices than otherwise.
3.Doing needed Homework
A word of caution to parents and elders! Always do what it takes to thoroughly check out the background when proposals are made. Many parents are eager to marry off their daughters so long as the boy is from the western hemisphere. The old thinking, "Once married, everything will be O.K." is wishful and irresponsible.
4. Realistic Match-Making
It is not uncommon to find that the siblings or parents of many candidates project unrealistic expectations. They tend to place the income-potential of the prospective spouse above all other considerations including character and upbringing. As such, these searches may get restricted to one or two groups of professionals. In a way, this is similar to the trend of going after the largest dowry. This makes it abundantly clear that most of our frustration stems from our own selfishness, unrealism and haste. Such unreasonable searches are what often lead us across the communal boundaries. We must exercise good judgment. We need to be accommodating, patient and persevering. The fact remains: no one ever meets or finds a perfect match. The ability to adapt, adjust, forgive and forget is what can assure success in marriage.
5. Role of Socio-Cultural & Other Groups
Our socio-cultural organizations both youth and adult at local and national levels and the church must also do their share to promote and facilitate the practice of endogamy. Their job is to directly and indirectly help minimize the drawbacks and maximize the opportunity for positive human relationships. The youth are eager to understand how this practice will work for them. Some of them have genuine fears. So they are watching and waiting. We can overcome their misgivings by letting them progressively develop a sense of confidence and security with our tradition.
Our youth who grow up in small or relatively isolated Kinanaya communities do feel deprived of their opportunity to interact and socialize with other fellow Kinanites of their age. This can only be solved by instituting and increasing the number of regional and national youth activities. We must foster communications among the youth using all possible channels such as written, spoken and computerized. Towards this end, modern technology can be of immense help and we must take full advantage of it.
As a community, we should also give wide publicity to successful weddings, recognitions or awards received etc. by our people. These will let our youngsters see for themselves how these can very well be their own stories.
CONCLUSION
Honoring the heritage and following traditions are taken as outward expressions of reciprocating parental love and respecting one's roots But beyond this, there is a lot to gain from continuing to practice our time- honored custom of endogamy. The overriding benefit is the stability and strength of individual families, the building blocks of any community, thus giving us lasting harmony and happiness. Every human naturally longs for a sense of honor and pride in belonging. Every endogamous Kinanite can feel this way about him/herself and his community. However, we must guard ourselves from vanity and loose talk. A sense of belonging is the goal; a sense of superiority is unacceptable.
It is also wise to consider the conditions we live in now and how we foresee our future. How different are we from the days of Bishop Makil? Do we feel ready to merge completely with the rest of the world? Once we abandon endogamy, there is no return; our disintegration and disappearance as an identifiable community will be brisk and quick. Imagine the fate of a well sealed bottle of ink thrown into the sea. Until the seal is broken, the ink bottle is able to hold its contents. Once broken, in no time, the ink is diluted by the waters. We are like that bottle. To keep endogamy or not to keep it, the choice is ours; so is our future. Let our decision be wise. Let it serve us well during our lifetime and also the many generations yet to come!
 

 

Berlit Punnoose

Nadayil.

> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:38:22 +0530
> From: kjphi...@gmail.com

> To: knanay...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community
>
>

[tino raju]

Very true

Kna is a community or a culture with one of the longest heritage and history. It is not that we choose to be born as a kna it is the will of our all mighty. If that is his will why we need to change it as per our will.

Let me tell you one thing even if some one doesn’t like it, who ever speaks against   kna has some kind of personal agenda behind it could be he is in love with some one out side of kna, his family member got married out of kna, his son or daughter is in affair with out of kna, or he is on his way to protestant, Pentecostal, or any kind of NEW WORLD CHRISTIANS.  Who just believe only certain part of The Holly Bible which is in favor for them? (Ex Born again) . If so we can drink Alcohol as per different part of the Bible, Ex Deuteronomy 14/22-26. The Bible its self says not to do so Please read Ecclesiastes 12/12-14.

The Church made The Holly Bible, Bible did not made Church. But the NEW WORLD CHRISTIANS are made by taking only the certain parts of the Holly Bible which is in favor for them.

What did St. Paul said remember the song in our church with its true meaning.

Puwlasu slleeha ………………. Than elkum sabayin shapam.

So please try not to get that curse of the Church.     

It is not the religion need to be changed but the man “matham alla marendathu manushan annu  marendathu”.

Thank you all

Tino Manimalethu.

St. Ephereem kna chruch Detroit.

St. thomas kurshu pally mandhamaruthy,Ranny.

Joseph Vilangattuseril <uman...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Tino Manimalethu

www.tinoraj.com

 

[shaiju hhhh]

Dear Friends,
Thanks for you all writing your openions. Before
I was a listener of your words.I will share you my
experience happened before few months back. I am Kna
and i was one of the leader of the Main Youth
movement.
My father was died at outside India and we brought
his body for burial in Homeland. I asked one Kallara
for funeral in our parish. Before it was Rs.15000/-.
Vicar asked me to give Rs.50,000/-. Then I asked him
to get me some land i should make one Normal Kallara.
He had'nt agree.So i paid Rs50,000/- and completed the
formalities. After 2 months, one man had died in My
parish and they asked Priest to get some land for
making normal Kallara. He approved because this man
has some recomendations. Eventhough I was the leader
of the youth movement, my parish denied my request.
Then what will be the situation of a common man.
You may wonder why i write this event because i
felt very bad in my life about my community at that
moment. People are searching girls from other
community because eventhough he is
graduate(Non-Medical) he will not get girls from his
own community and our leaders are doing such arrogent
things how he can retain this community. If any girls
go for Nursing she demands Masters in our community.
Everybody is seeking security now a days.
So Priests take initiative to make our community
secure not only for Physically but also solely.
For example if you go for pay OTTA KURBANA(Holy Mass),
our vicars face will be changed. He likes to pray only
PATTU KURBANA(Holy Mass). He may tell if you want to
pray otta kurbana you go Aramana(Cathedrel) and give
miney, i will pray only PATTU KURBANA. You know what
is the reason behind it Pattu Kurbana, we should have
to pay more.

I wish u all Happy Xmas and Prosperous new year.
Please Pray for our community and our leaders to
protect sheeps like us and save our souls until
heaven.

If you observe Pentacos, we can adopt some good
characteristics like helping in needs. If we watch Kna
Community , heping Mentality belongs to only NRIs.
If you go through Parishes, Neighbours are in rivalry.
We can develop Kna community by inspiring some moral
values for our children.

Thans,
S.Thomas.

> .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px }
> body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
> FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } I agree with you Mr.

____________________________________________________________________________________

[joyal psmt]

Dear Friends,

In some points I agree with Shaiju, some of our
priests are very greedy. I feel that some people are
becoming priest for making money. If a man comes from
abroad the parish priest is behind him till get a good
donation from him. The priest doesn’t know that how
much this man is suffering and making little money.

If we want to do a function in our parish, there are
lot of rules and regulations. If we give a good
donation, we can violate any rules. This priest must
know that how Jesus Christ lived in this world. I am
not blaming all the priests. Once I phoned to my
friend he told me that “Now we have a ‘Adipoli Achan’.
He has bike and car".

20 years ago I went to get an admission in St.
Stephen’s college, Uzhavoor. Principal was a Priest.
He forced me to give a good donation to build a
Auditorium there. There had no option without
donation. After Some years I got a rumor about this
priest.

Thanks
Joyal

=== message truncated ===

[Cyril Abraham]

Hi Shaiju

 

Sorry to hear about your experience: the fact is that such experience is more common-place than you would imagine.

 

Money talks; power talks; they always have.

Our church has a history of favouring money and power, such as when they sided with the Nazis against the Jews.

Church has historically amassed huge wealth. If "paattu kurbana" is what gets the objective accomplished, then "paattu kurbana" it is.

If your sentiments needed assuaging by doling out Rs50,000/- , that is a choice you knowingly made. But you didn't have to. There were other ways to have met with death dispositions.

 

From the viscious circle of intra-community alliances (endogamy) we have gone into career recycling primarily in nursing. Many Kna females and males are going after this career to meet one's/families' survival needs. This rut is perpetuated also by the fact of our unwillingness to relinguish our bull-headed stance on endogamic priorities where we keep regurgitating the only thing or two we know about economic upward mobility. We are literally boxed-in with little-to-no options for we have no access to advantages beyond the limitations of our community.

 

- Prepare yourself for a professional career line as suits your aptitudes and desires.

- Look for emotional and intellectual compatibilities in your future partner. The sentiment of "falling in love" is certainly a beautiful human experience, but know that you have to be realistic about how you can come together to create the best possible future for the two of you.

- Eligibility and pre-qualification for jobs to meet your/your partner's future objectives, wishes and dreams, are indispensable.

- If you find somebody meeting the requirements as above, you have the ideal partner to meet the milestones to support the progression of your life through adulthood.  

- If that someone is a Kna, well and good. If not, it is just as well and good, for as derived from the above, it is not "Kna" that makes or breaks your future prospects and success, but the qualities of the person that you will be with and that which you bring into a relationship which have little to do with your social identity, especially in the names and norms of religion, caste or creed.

 

Always do what is right for YOU. Don't be a brick in the wall (as the Pink Floyd song goes) massed produced to merely fit into a hole as deemed appropriate by someone else on your behalf (unless, of course, you are in agreement with them).  That will be your choice is to make.

Best wishes

 

Cyril Abraham

 

shaiju hhhh <shai...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> wrote:
> > > > i think people are going and marring from
> other community because they
> > > havent got the base and they dont know how
> special is being a kna. they dont
> > > know the value of being a kna and they dont
> value it. namukku vendathavara
> > > namukkum venda. but future generationil nammuda
> okka during the catechism
> > > classes once in a while they have to teach about
> our tradition its
> > > importance blablanla... it can sometimes improve
> this
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Tino Manimalethu
> www.tinoraj.com
>
>
>
>
>
>



____________________________________________________________________________________
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---

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[prij...@in.ness.com]

Fellow knanayities,
Let's all understand that we live in an imperfect world and so there is bound to be issues. Let's also appreciate the fact that our priests also have to live in this world and that they have families too. Please do not imply that I am justifying any unwarranted action of anyone but all that I want to convey is that instead of just raising issues in the forum can we also start proposing solutions. Of late I have been seeing mostly negative things being poured out and let's reverse this trend and start thinking positive.

Cheers
Priji
-----Original Message-----
From: joyal psmt <joyalp...@yahoo.com>

Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:16:32

Disclaimer

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[Peter Chemmalakuzhy]

We can't do anything for the mess as it is deeper that we think. There is a saying, "there are so many things in the world more important than money, but you need money to have those things".

 

Priests and nuns are human beings. They also have to survive the "ADIPOLI" world out there. They need money for that. So, they are also becoming more and more "practical" these days! They are willing to kiss anyone in authority to cover their ---. Who cares about the Bible they hold man.  NAMUKUM KITTANAM PANAM, HA HA HA HA.. Can I have a drink? 

 

These days, there is no respect for people who are service minded. You are heard and respected only if you have the BEEF, Hahahahaha.

 

So, let us stop painting those priests and nuns as greedy and bad. Try to tolerate them and just do what u can do to better this society within your capacity. You will be fool to fight against those mighty people, for you will go to hell eventually. Please remember that!!!

 

Take care

 

Peter Chemmalakuzhy.

joyal psmt <joyalp...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Friends,

In some points I agree with Shaiju, some of our
priests are very greedy. I feel that some people are
becoming priest for making money. If a man comes from
abroad the parish priest is behind him till get a good
donation from him. The priest doesn’t know that how
much this man is suffering and making little money.

If we want to do a function in our parish, there are
lot of rules and regulations. If we give a good
donation, we can violate any rules. This priest must
know that how Jesus Christ lived in this world. I am
not blaming all the priests. Once I phoned to my
friend he told me that “Now we have a ‘Adipoli Achan’.
He has bike and car".

20 years ago I went to get an admission in St.
Stephen’s college, Uzhavoor. Principal was a Priest.
He forced me to give a good donation to build a
Auditorium there. There had no option without
donation. After Some years I got a rumor about this
priest.

Thanks
Joyal

[george n.x.]

hello ,

 

priest & nun are people like us . they have draw back like us . we  can see alot of priests who have come to know & experienced Jesus Christ , from them only expect good values , others are people like us only . its better to pray for them & pray to fill them with Holy spirit , then we can see good values in them .

 

george

 

www.kottayamflowers.com

joyal psmt <joyalp...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Friends,

In some points I agree with Shaiju, some of our
priests are very greedy. I feel that some people are
becoming priest for making money. If a man comes from
abroad the parish priest is behind him till get a good
donation from him. The priest doesn’t know that how
much this man is suffering and making little money.

If we want to do a function in our parish, there are
lot of rules and regulations. If we give a good
donation, we can violate any rules. This priest must
know that how Jesus Christ lived in this world. I am
not blaming all the priests. Once I phoned to my
friend he told me that “Now we have a ‘Adipoli Achan’.
He has bike and car".

20 years ago I went to get an admission in St.
Stephen’s college, Uzhavoor. Principal was a Priest.
He forced me to give a good donation to build a
Auditorium there. There had no option without
donation. After Some years I got a rumor about this
priest.

Thanks
Joyal

[jimson simon]

hello friends my name is  jimson simon and  i am a kna

i want  to  asK u  some  qustions ple  answer  me

in now  a days many  girls and boys are in ,our communinity are  living like a bitch  they can do alll the bad things for them they  have an  aNSWER THAT  WE ARE  KANAYANA AND  AFTER  DOING  ALL THE DIRTY THINGS THEY ARE GOING TO GET MARRY AND SETTLED SO NOW I  HATE THIS COMMUNITITY BECUSE  I AM NOT A DRINKER BUT IN OUR COMMUNITITY IF ANY BODY IS NOT DRINKING HE IS  A FOOL   AND ALSO SO MANY FACTS THAT I CANNOT EXPLAIN  I AM PREDICT THAT IF THIS COMMUNITITY IS GOING LIKE THIS THIS WILL BECAME MORE WORST THAN ANY OTHER COMMUNITY IN THE WORLD AND THIS COMMUNITY HAVE NO LIFE

---

Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Click here.

[Ashok]

priji, practical as ever....lets get the solutions listed out and work
toward implimenting them.

For one... i think that a priest's salary should see a multifold
increase... also ensure that it is fixed and reviewed communsurate with
their educational qualification and experiance.

Further suggest that each priest give an annual report of their edavaka with
details of members , work done during the year, projects undertaken etc,
atleast once a year to their boss..ie to the respected thirumeni....!!! who
can review it and in turn exercise some csontrol and accountability for
their performance.

regards
ashok
'

[alex esthappan]

Dear fellow Knanaites,

 

There is nothing wrong being a Kna, White, Black, Chinese, Northists, German, Punjabi, Brahmin, Harijans, etc.  All these people are very proud of their race and ethnicity.  They are born in to these groups not by their choice, but by God’s choice.  They are all God’s children.  However, when these groups create rules and practices due to hate and prejudices to discriminate and exclude others, that is what is wrong.  When one group thinks that they are superior and others inferior, that is what is wrong.  When whites insist to exclude blacks from their churches and public places, that is wrong.  When Brahmins insisted to exclude Harijans from Hindu Temple, that was wrong.  When they insisted to keep their superior caste status, that was wrong.  When they insisted to exclude their children who married a Harijan, it was wrong.  This is what is wrong with Knanaya community.  When this community insists to exclude Knas who marry non-Knas, their children, spouses and adopted children, to protect Kna purity, that is what is wrong.  Many people seem not to understand that this is wrong.  The people who practiced slavery were Christians; the people who practiced racial segregation were Christians; Knanaites who dominated and abused 17 lower castes were Christians, but they did not realize that their actions were wrong and unchristian.  Though we call ourselves Christians, we may not have any idea who Christ really is.  We worship our lord with our lips, but waste all our strengths to do unchristian actions. 

 

Many Knas, including me, do not support Knanaya community’s exclusionary practices.  Even if we are absolutely pure Jewish endogamous group, which appears to be a dubious claim based on the recent DNA study, we do not support Knanaya Catholic community’s compulsory exclusion of our children who marry non-Knas, based on moral, legal, humanitarian and civil rights principles.  I believe everybody is equal.  I believe everybody is the child of God.  I do not believe in purity or superiority.  I believe that our practice is against the ideology of unconditional love of Jesus Christ.  Knanaya purity and endogamy will not take us to heaven, but unconditional love of our fellow human beings, will.  Our practice is a hindrance to our salvation and to our well being as a community.  It is time for our bishops and priests to start to preach the ideology of unconditional love instead of absolute purity and endogamy.  It is time to start a new tradition of endogamy based on inclusion. 

 

 

Alex Kavumpurath

 

 

[kj philip]

Hi Ansu,

     To b a kna is not a way to heaven. Knowng the word of God too has nothing to do with kna. Knanaya is only a community and not a religion. It is not a fault that one is born as kna. A poor kna cannot but be a kna even if wants. So also, nobody can become a kna unless he is born to knanaya parents. Then why should anybody fine fault with the knanites for being so. Being a knanite doesnt prevent anybody from following the word of God. Even Jesus belonged to the jewish community. 

     Pl dont mix or confuse knanaya with any religion, Church, God etc. Its just a community.

     Once born as a kna, even if he marries a non-knanayite, he will remain a knanite. But he cannot be treated any more as a member of the knanaya community as endogamy is the basis of knanaya. So one has not only to be born as a result of endogamy, he has to follow endogamy in his own marriage too. A non knanaya spouse or children born from it cannot be knanaya.
    If somebody marries so, let them do so. But let them understand that they cannot be treated as a member of the knanaya community thereafter. 
                                                                                        K.J.Philip

----- Original Message ----
From: jose joseph <joseph...@rediffmail.com>
To: knanay...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 8 December, 2007 11:46:32 AM
Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

Dear Ansu,

I fully agree with your views. I have already received plenty of
views on this. But out of these, I feel, yours is the
best meaningful one. The best thing which we can do is FOLLOW THE
WORDS TAUGHT BY OUR PARENTS.

Best wishes - Tomy Joseph (Onasseril) /  Calcutta
+++++++++++++++

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 ansu c wrote :
>Hi Benitta
>
>
>i dont think having a "base"  in kna will take you to heaven...by the by
>what is the purpose of our life in this world?? Even if we have a base in
>kna but dont know the word of God which is the path way to heaven. I reckon
>the life in earth is so short and it is an oppurtunity for us to do godly
>things while we are here and not to feel special in being kna and not
>knowing the word of god.
>
>I have my sister married outside kna but I cant find any mistake in that
>when they live a good life knowing the word of God. I would like to see more
>kna priest telling the word of God rather than telling the greatness of kna.
>

>Can I ask you benitta what can traditions give you ...can it give you peace
>of mind, happiness , and much more which you can only get from the word of
>God.
>
>Thanks
>Ansu
>

>On 12/2/07, benitta jacob <benitt...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > i think people are going and marring from other community because they
> > havent got the base and they dont know how special is being a kna. they dont
> > know the value of being a kna and they dont value it. namukku vendathavara
> > namukkum venda. but future generationil nammuda okka during the catechism
> > classes once in a while they have to teach about our tradition its
> > importance blablanla... it can sometimes improve this
> > >
> >
>
>>

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[tino raju]

Very good coment on this issue Priji.

Just few more points to add Priests are the choosen people by God even though they are just like any Man with same blood and feelings as a normal humanbeing.

Remember the song

"aa charitham kayeekondu aharoon mushayo donnichu skariyaa yiku athu nalki moosha skaria yohananum  yohanan karthavinum  kartha than sleehan markum nana sristi nivahangal keei sleehan mar."

and please read the acts what jesus said "the homes you visit will be blessed and so.

And again just a comparison even though we are not suppose to do that. Catholic Priests can drink in public I have served drink and sold to many in person to whites as well Indian Catholic Priests.

I even served drinks to one of the famious Pentascostal Paster who was a Kna before has his own chruch with a lot of kna pentocostals as they call,with a white lady at Taj Mahal Hotal Bombay back in 1994.  

I never drink or served to any of our priests in my life.

Thank you

Tino

Detroit,U.S.A.

prij...@in.ness.com wrote:

Fellow knanayities,
Let's all understand that we live in an imperfect world and so there is bound to be issues. Let's also appreciate the fact that our priests also have to live in this world and that they have families too. Please do not imply that I am justifying any unwarranted action of anyone but all that I want to convey is that instead of just raising issues in the forum can we also start proposing solutions. Of late I have been seeing mostly negative things being poured out and let's reverse this trend and start thinking positive.

Cheers
Priji
-----Original Message-----
From: joyal psmt

Tino Manimalethu

www.tinoraj.com

 

[Stephan VT]

Dont worry.this is an old community.it canot be distoried.90%people
are good.leave 5%.NOTHING WILL HAPPEND.

---

Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 20:26:17 +0000
From: jims...@yahoo.co.in

Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

To: knanay...@googlegroups.com

Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Click here.</a

[Sunil Korah]

Jimson,

I am really puzzled.

You start by saying you want to ask some questions. What is your question? I did not find a single question in your message.

I live in Ernakulam. I know Knas who don't drink at all and no one thinks of them as fools. So which is this place you are in, where non drinkers are considered fools? I agree that in general many of our people are too fond of their drink. But I think these things will change in time.

I found it hard to understand your message because of your "stream of consciousness" style (no punctuation, strange capitalisation etc) of posting.

Regards

Sunil Korah

----- Original Message ----
From: jimson simon <jims...@yahoo.co.in>
To: knanay...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, 7 January, 2008 1:56:17 AM
Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

hello friends my name is  jimson simon and  i am a kna

i want  to  asK u  some  qustions ple  answer  me

in now  a days many  girls and boys are in ,our communinity are  living like a bitch  they can do alll the bad things for them they  have an  aNSWER THAT  WE ARE  KANAYANA AND  AFTER  DOING  ALL THE DIRTY THINGS THEY ARE GOING TO GET MARRY AND SETTLED SO NOW I  HATE THIS COMMUNITITY BECUSE  I AM NOT A DRINKER BUT IN OUR COMMUNITITY IF ANY BODY IS NOT DRINKING HE IS  A FOOL   AND ALSO SO MANY FACTS THAT I CANNOT EXPLAIN  I AM PREDICT THAT IF THIS COMMUNITITY IS GOING LIKE THIS THIS WILL BECAME MORE WORST THAN ANY OTHER COMMUNITY IN THE WORLD AND THIS COMMUNITY HAVE NO LIFE

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[tijy thomas]

Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! some one give life to this frustrated soul...



My
dear friend i am sorry for this but was not able to stop my self frm
responding to wht u wrote....as per u, u hate this community cause some
one got screwed up somewhere or some one screwed some one or  some kna
got drunk...



then u shd hate the human race itself cause some thing
is always going wrong some where....why didnt u stopped travelling by
bus, car, scooter cause there are lots of road accident happens!!!!so
for god sake apply ur brain be4 u write some thing ....







Quoting 
jims...@yahoo.co.in:



> hello friends my name is  jimson simon and 

i am a kna 

  i want  to  asK u  some  qustions ple  answer  me

  in
now  a days many  girls and boys are in ,our communinity are  living
like a bitch  they can do alll the bad things for them they  have an 
aNSWER THAT  WE ARE  KANAYANA AND  AFTER  DOING  ALL THE DIRTY THINGS
THEY ARE GOING TO GET MARRY AND SETTLED SO NOW I  HATE THIS COMMUNITITY
BECUSE  I AM NOT A DRINKER BUT IN OUR COMMUNITITY IF ANY BODY IS NOT
DRINKING HE IS  A FOOL   AND ALSO SO MANY FACTS THAT I CANNOT EXPLAIN  I
AM PREDICT THAT IF THIS COMMUNITITY IS GOING LIKE THIS THIS WILL BECAME
MORE WORST THAN ANY OTHER COMMUNITY IN THE WORLD AND THIS COMMUNITY HAVE

NO LIFE









       

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[joyson kuriakose]

DEAR JIMSON,

NO ESTABLISHMENTS ,SURVIVE  BECAUSE OF  BAD PEOPLE.IT IS  ONLY BECAUSE OF  GOOD  PEOPLE,GOOD  DEEDS.. OF  EVEN FEW  MINORITITES,

YOUR ASSUMPTION THAT  YOUR ARE  A  FOOL  BECAUSE YOU ARE  NOT  DRINKING  IS ALSO NOT  CORRECT.  IF  SOME  PEOPLE PREDICTED IN THAT WAY..

HE IS THE  FOOL..SO  COOL  DOWN..

THOSE WHO DO  ANY KIND OF  NONSENSE , HAS  TO  PAY FOR IT  IN A LATER

STAGE ..

SO YOU CONTINUE AS  YOU  ARE, AND DONT BOTHER  FOR  THESE TYPE  PEOPLES..

IGNORE,  THE IGNORANTS..

REGARDS,

K.JOYSON.

ERNAKULAM

jimson simon <jims...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

Click here.

[Thomas Kalladan]

Hi Jimson Simon,

Your are totally wrong about drinking.  There are so many Knanaya people out there do not drink at all.  You are may be around some drinking Knas, that is all.  You need to find some new friends.  When you see one or few churches doing some wrong, doesn't mean all catholic church are doing wrong thing.  80% of charity works done in the world by catholic church organizations.

Thomas Kalladan,

[TC Abraham]

Dear Jimson you should be proud that you are a kna.We have no write to crticise others. Please remember Jesus came to this world to save sinners.May God Bless you. With prayers.

Abraham.

----- Original Message ----
From: jimson simon <jims...@yahoo.co.in>
To: knanay...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, 7 January, 2008 12:26:17 AM
Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

hello friends my name is  jimson simon and  i am a kna

i want  to  asK u  some  qustions ple  answer  me

in now  a days many  girls and boys are in ,our communinity are  living like a bitch  they can do alll the bad things for them they  have an  aNSWER THAT  WE ARE  KANAYANA AND  AFTER  DOING  ALL THE DIRTY THINGS THEY ARE GOING TO GET MARRY AND SETTLED SO NOW I  HATE THIS COMMUNITITY BECUSE  I AM NOT A DRINKER BUT IN OUR COMMUNITITY IF ANY BODY IS NOT DRINKING HE IS  A FOOL   AND ALSO SO MANY FACTS THAT I CANNOT EXPLAIN  I AM PREDICT THAT IF THIS COMMUNITITY IS GOING LIKE THIS THIS WILL BECAME MORE WORST THAN ANY OTHER COMMUNITY IN THE WORLD AND THIS COMMUNITY HAVE NO LIFE

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[Thushara Joseph]

Ok so what is your question that you wanted someone to answer?  Why do you say we are living like a "bitch"?...I believe our community is fine and we live how we want to live, drinking or not drinking.  Who ever is going to judge you because you don't drink, I suggest you to find better and understanding friends.  Ok majority of us drink, but what can you do? That is how our society has become.  Drinking in our society became a habit and I don't think it's going to change.  I really love our community and I believe it gets stronger and stronger as time goes by...

Thushara Kaparampil

---

Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 20:26:17 +0000
From: jims...@yahoo.co.in

Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

To: knanay...@googlegroups.com

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[Joseph Vilangattuseril]

wow, dude... no need to use bad language, relax and take a deep breath. No one has something against you because u dont drink. EVERY community has peer pressure to drink not just our community. i gave up drinkin for lent last year and i go to an alll white school (and im in college to top it off) so there was peer pressure left and right and i didnt give up on my beliefs so if u can go through peer pressure and still stick with your beliefs thats good for u. no need to talk bad about others for things they like to do. I mentioned in one of my earlier emails that if u have something against knanayas and u are knanaya u dont have to be just because your born one. From now on just say "i am Indian malayalee catholic" or watever u are while we say "we're Knanaya Indian American Malayalee Catholic" haha   so just calm down. Also if anything, its harder for a knanaya kid to do bad things and settle down because the WHOLE community knows about it... or at least thats how it works in america. because once u have a bad name in the community no1 wants to marry u basically.

---

Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 20:26:17 +0000
From: jims...@yahoo.co.in

Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

To: knanay...@googlegroups.com

Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Click here.</a

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[Joseph Vilangattuseril]

i dont get it just because u marry outside of knanaya doesnt mean that u'll be excluded from the church... your still a catholic... knanaya is just a cultural and ethnic identity, if a black person was to marry a white person they're still black but their kids and wife arent... same thing with knanaya your still knanaya but your spouse and kids arent. And if your family and friends actually care about u, your still included in their lives. So im not understandin how if your not 100 % knanaya how u can be or even say that u or your family are knanaya.. plus if u chose to marry outside the community u chose to be non knanaya basically

---

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 18:16:46 -0800
From: aesth...@yahoo.com

Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

To: knanay...@googlegroups.com

---

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[Joy Thomas]

I can't agree with Mr. Philip. Our community is living in an ancient century. Our policy must change. Instead of throwing people from our community we must allow them to join our community through marriage. In young generation, it is their freedom to choose a bride or groom. Don't discourage them in the name of community. It will not help to grow the community. Jesus Christ was not throwing people from Christian Community.
 
Thanks
Joy 

---

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:16:00 +0530
From: phil...@yahoo.com

Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

To: knanay...@googlegroups.com

[ayarkunnam kottayam]

hay everyone  i  am CKP and i  ban reading this stuff for past month  and i think what  K.J. philp  comment  to  ansu  is right..... and i this is a  good way to  get the info flow...

[Joy Thomas]

Dear All,
 
According to my openion, from bishop house there should be a control of all parish priest's income. Some parish priests are not getting enough income from their parish. May be that parish is small or people are low income group. So from Bishop house can give a contribution for that parish priest. Bishop house can collect a minimum amount from rich parish priest and give to poor parish priest.
 
Thanks
Joy

> Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 00:49:09 +0530
> From: rent...@dataone.in

> Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

> To: knanay...@googlegroups.com

[xknasu...@aim.com]

Jimson,

 

The younger generation may experience peer pressure to drink- but we all grow up. As adults, I think we can all agree it's a personal choice whether you drink or not. Also, our community will not exclude someone because he/she chooses not to drink. You got to have a little more faith in our community :) We may have some things we need to work on, but we are definately not the only community with problems.

Take care,

Annie

-----Original Message-----
From: Sunil Korah <sunil...@yahoo.com>
To: knanay...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:57 am
Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

Jimson,

I am really puzzled.

You start by saying you want to ask some questions. What is your question? I did not find a single question in your message.

I live in Ernakulam. I know Knas who don't drink at all and no one thinks of them as fools. So which is this place you are in, where non drinkers are considered fools? I agree that in general many of our people are too fond of their drink. But I think these things will change in time.

I found it hard to understand your message because of your "stream of consciousness" style (no punctuation, strange capitalisation etc) of posting.

Regards

Sunil Korah

----- Original Message ----
From: jimson simon <jims...@yahoo.co.in>
To: knanay...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, 7 January, 2008 1:56:17 AM
Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

hello friends my name is  jimson simon and  i am a kna

i want  to  asK u  some  qustions ple  answer  me

in now  a days many  girls and boys are in ,our communinity are  living like a bitch  they can do alll the bad things for them they  have an  aNSWER THAT  WE ARE  KANAYANA AND  AFTER  DOING  ALL THE DIRTY THINGS THEY ARE GOING TO GET MARRY AND SETTLED SO NOW I  HATE THIS COMMUNITITY BECUSE  I AM NOT A DRINKER BUT IN OUR COMMUNITITY IF ANY BODY IS NOT DRINKING HE IS  A FOOL   AND ALSO SO MANY FACTS THAT I CANNOT EXPLAIN  I AM PREDICT THAT IF THIS COMMUNITITY IS GOING LIKE THIS THIS WILL BECAME MORE WORST THAN ANY OTHER COMMUNITY IN THE WORLD AND THIS COMMUNITY HAVE NO LIFE

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[ayarkunnam kottayam]

hay jimson where you from?... i live in US for the past 10 years.. i did my high school and my collage in US. i am almost dun with my collage.And are you  talking about those who live here...?. I  have to say i drink but i drink with my father, and my family. I think it's a good thing to do that.  I can only tell  you from my  life view, and i rather drink  with my family than go outside and drink with some others. i am more conformable and much fun  for me this way... anyway  i am sad to C some people have stuck up mind.
   I have to say you right some people dos that.. but you can't make your mind from  few people that you care across in your life ....so plez be little more open mind and tray to look @ the big  piz its not only one family there so many... and there are always good and bad and   that gos to any community. Thank you

[Kuruvilla P. Kurian]

Dear Knanaya Brothers,

 

We have to understand that our priests with families, having 2 or 3 children are getting a very low salary plus what ever we are giving them when they come to our house or when we have some special functions. But how many are giving them?  If you are expatriate you may be ging him something more.  But from how many houses he is getting i?  Are we giving them at least a part of our Dashamsam ( Tenth)?.

 

There are very few of our priests who are from well to do families.  Most of them are from average families.  They usually are marrying from a little better familiy than their.  Hence, he will have to trouble along to cop-up with his in-law families and run his familiy to a standard situation.  Being a priest he cannot go for any other jobs or in other words no body will call them for any job.

 

Still I remember one of our priests in the northern part of Kerala who used to go for "Koolippany" after the church service.  I remember him pulling his very old scooter to get it started. 

 

Let me tell you one insident.  Once a priest of ours who's wife is from a level high family from his, gone to a family  to pray (where most of their children are in gulf). After the prayer the priest expected he will get something from there.  After a short waiting when he did not get anything he told the house owner that I have prayed worth more than 50 rupees.  Although he got nothing from that family.  Instead this matter was raised as an accusation against priest.

 

Such cases are there and it never fills our eyes.  Instead we accuse them. 

 

We also have to remember that some priest were there who even paid out his salary from church and from school to poor people arround him and slept even without food for his family.

 

So let us think of supporting them.  If not at lease we should not throw dirt on them.

 

with love

kuruvilla

-----Original Message-----
From: knanay...@googlegroups.com [mailto:knanay...@googlegroups.com]On Behalf Of tino raju
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 4:52 AM
To: knanay...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

Very good coment on this issue Priji.

Just few more points to add Priests are the choosen people by God even though they are just like any Man with same blood and feelings as a normal humanbeing.

Remember the song

"aa charitham kayeekondu aharoon mushayo donnichu skariyaa yiku athu nalki moosha skaria yohananum  yohanan karthavinum  kartha than sleehan markum nana sristi nivahangal keei sleehan mar."

and please read the acts what jesus said "the homes you visit will be blessed and so.

And again just a comparison even though we are not suppose to do that. Catholic Priests can drink in public I have served drink and sold to many in person to whites as well Indian Catholic Priests.

I even served drinks to one of the famious Pentascostal Paster who was a Kna before has his own chruch with a lot of kna pentocostals as they call,with a white lady at Taj Mahal Hotal Bombay back in 1994.  

I never drink or served to any of our priests in my life.

Thank you

Tino

Detroit,U.S.A.

prij...@in.ness.com wrote:

Fellow knanayities,
Let's all understand that we live in an imperfect world and so there is bound to be issues. Let's also appreciate the fact that our priests also have to live in this world and that they have families too. Please do not imply that I am justifying any unwarranted action of anyone but all that I want to convey is that instead of just raising issues in the forum can we also start proposing solutions. Of late I have been seeing mostly negative things being poured out and let's reverse this trend and start thinking positive.

Cheers
Priji
-----Original Message-----
From: joyal psmt

Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 06:16:32
To:knanay...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other
community

Dear Friends,

In some points I agree with Shaiju, some of our
priests are very greedy. I feel that some people are
becoming priest for making money. If a man comes from
abroad the parish priest is behind him till get a good
donation from him. The priest doesn't know that how
much this man is suffering and making little money.

If we want to do a function in our parish, there are
lot of rules and regulations. If we give a good
donation, we can violate any rules. This priest must
know that how Jesus Christ lived in this world. I am
not blaming all the priests. Once I phoned to my
friend he told me that "Now we have a 'Adipoli Achan'.
He has bike and car".

20 years ago I went to get an admission in St.
Stephen's college, Uzhavoor. Principal was a Priest.
He forced me to give a good donation to build a
Auditorium there. There had no option without
donation. After Some years I got a rumor about this
priest.

Thanks
Joyal

> > Puwlasu slleeha ................... Than elkum sabayin

> shapam.
> > So please try not to get that curse of the
> Church.
> >
> > It is not the religion need to be changed but
> the
> > man "matham alla marendathu manushan annu
> > marendathu".
> > Thank you all
> > Tino Manimalethu.
> > St. Ephereem kna chruch Detroit.
> > St. thomas kurshu pally mandhamaruthy,Ranny.
> >
> > Joseph Vilangattuseril

> > wrote:
> > .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px }
>
> > body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
> > FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } I agree with you Mr.
> > Phillip. Knanaya is just a culture. It shouldn't
> > affect your religious beliefs at all. I also agree
> > that we should live this life happily and if being
> > knanaya is what makes you happy in this life you
> > should stick with it. You can be of many cultures
> > and still live a good christian life. That's what
> > being knanaya is. A culture that has the same
> > religion and prefers to stay together. Is anything
> > wrong with that?
> >
> > > Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:38:22 +0530
> > > From: kjphi...@gmail.com
> > > To: knanay...@googlegroups.com

> > > Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people
> are
> > married from other community
> > >
> > >

Tino Manimalethu

www.tinoraj.com

 

[Antony Jose]

Dear sunil,

       How r u.  I am a kna from kottayam.  U made a good point to the guy.  Not all kna's r drunkards.  Some drink and make all types of messes.  And that is not right.  But some don't drink.  But that  fellow making a stereo-type comment on all kna's is based on sense-less.  Ok take care......................Best wishes from......Suresh....... 

[Avarachan John]

Hello dear Jimson,

 

I dont know what is ur back ground and whether u are a kna or not. but i know one thing very well that u dont know nothing abt the great Kna family. Mr.jimson i think u r an Indian. I think u will read newspapers daily and will watch TV. Many bad things are happending in India daily like terrerrisom, correption etc. Then will u tell that this India is bad and u dont like India and also "India will not have a future" like taht. hey man u dont know anything abt this community. This community is not originated last year or 2-3 years back. This is a community whixh has more than 1600 years old. So many persons and other communities tried several times to distroyi this community. But this kna family sufferd all and now also it is still alive. So Mr. jimson pleaseeeee think 2-3 times befroe you think or write somthing. Dont send these kind of ulter nonsense again.. this is a humble request. Am a kna and am proud of a kna for ever.

 

Regards,

 

Avarachan John

Eklm-

ph-9846095954

 

[Joseph Vilangattuseril]

thank u sunil, i thought i was the only one that noticed that!

---

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:27:46 +0530
From: sunil...@yahoo.com

Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

To: knanay...@googlegroups.com

[MONSY JACOB]

I am Monsy Jacob from Ranny; struggling to put together in the northeastern US for the last 19 years.

 

Why they drink?  Why they marry from other communities?  Why should we preserve our ethnicity?  These are all subsections of the same topic.

 

Who are we?

We are the decedents of the 400 or so people who were Christians converted from Judaism who lived in the State of Edessa in the modern day Sanali Urfa of the Anatolia province of Turkey.  Their leader was merchant Thomas who was a (kanai) zealous Christian.  To go in a group to a barren-land and spread Christianity was the custom of Edessa Christians.  In the 4^th century Mabar (modern day Kerala had only pulayas, kuravas and dedans.  The king was a pulayan; Cheraman perumal.

 

St. Thomas?

Thomas apostle visited India; the India of the 1^st century.  The southern border of the 1^st century India was the Punjab and it extended to China; included all the places Alexander conquered.  When the Roman Church found its root in India through the Portuguese; they made up the story of Mylapore and Malayatoore and mistakenly or deliberately; the books and studies published by Mundaden/velliyan; under the Roman church funding desperately tried to paint Thomas Apostle in the place of Thomas of Kana as the founder of church in south India. Other  copycats(clueless about what they wrote) and others like E. M. P. who had other agendas to say that Thomas apostle started the church in Malabar.    But now we know that the Nambuthyris whom the apstle is credited for converting came to the south only by the 7^th century and also Sankara.   Until then the language of Malabar coast was Tamil and it got mixed with Sanskrit to form manipravalam and then Malayalam.  Now we know that the so called cross “discovered” in mylapore was not a symbol of Christianity during the time of St. Thomas.  Now we agree that the book Acts of Thomas is a 3^rd century lyric and that the theme and substance of the book is against Christian teachings.

 

Drinking?

Drinking was accepted in the roman church.  When they invaded coerced and controlled the Syrian Christians of the Malabar Coast, drinking became a habit in the invaded Christians, north of kottayam and slowly leached southwards. 

 

Drinking gives strength?

Alcohol gives some strength to the jelly balls (scrotum) of the knanaya youth; who are otherwise toe directed (always looking at their own toes when they meet the opposite sex).  Drinking, kind of helps them to show their mother they are tough and not just listening to their wife unlike their own henpecked father. The typical mother is in her prime sleeping with a grand father (in performance) husband.  None of the advocates of drinking have ever, ever offered a drink to their own sisters, why?

 

Some of the youth has a notion that women likes to be abused and crushed; and then only they would think high of the male.  They got this idea observing the rooster mating the hen chasing, jumping up and holding her head down with his beak.  They do not know that it is to avoid a slip and fall.  This is more common with the modern youth.  I learned about a few of them recently; where both spouses are well educated.  In one case the husband transplanted to the west wants the wife to make the dough for dosa in the old attukallu; and not in a blender because it tastes better?  In another case the husband threw away the dosa because he was served dosa the previous morning and hence belittled before his mother.  Hence he demanded idly.  The guy had no clue as usual that the component is the same.  I know another mother and son/husband/stud (with jelly balls) who demands that the girl when falling sick should be taken care of by her parents.  The calls the girls parents if she get sick.  They take her to hospital; when healthy should bring her to him so that he can jump on her drunk/undrunk with his whole body weight on her.  I know a modernist MIL(mother in law) who makes the DIL to serve dosa to the FIL one by one only after he finished the 1^st.  She has to wait, keeping it warm until the old man finishes.  The MIL never did it by herself.

Few years ago in a pre-marital (or martial) sessions the councilor advised the women that when they get married; the next morning they should get up early; make coffee and bring two cups to the new mother-in-law; one for the mother-in-law and one for her son and the mother-in-law should bring the coffee to her son and thereby we gain favor the mother-in-law. 

The new wife knows that the right approach is to mix some erectile dysfunction drugs (like Viagra) in the father-in-laws coffee.

The knanaya girls prefer guys from other communities because they do not know how much more hen-pecked are the other guys.  They do not know that they have to worry about his sisters and chettathies if they marry outside; exactly like the knanayas north of kottayam.

 

Solution?

We need to get back to where we were; when the man was the head of the house.  The aviramapilas has to be publicly ridiculed.  The mail chauvinism be treated as a mental disorder.  The mail chauvinism preached and advocated by the clergy; which they received from the ayatollahs/Islam and their own sadism be dealt with by educating them.  The ones who sermonize sahanam; kshama; surrender and mercy be told that their teaching should not be based on exploitation of the feeble.  The females should be taught self respect; that they are not for abuse; to be a victim of abuse does not lead to sainthood but to unhealthy children.  If you eat bullshit, it will not show that you belong to a “good” family; only a maggot family.  Kick the husband who still is asking for permission from his mother when to have a baby OUT.  At least kindly don’t re-produce that gene.

Thanks; Monsy

 

 

tijy thomas <ti...@sify.com> wrote:

Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! some one give life to this frustrated soul...        My
dear friend i am sorry for this but was not able to stop my self frm
responding to wht u wrote....as per u, u hate this community cause some
one got screwed up somewhere or some one screwed some one or  some kna
got drunk...        then u shd hate the human race itself cause some thing
is always going
 wrong some where....why didnt u stopped travelling by
bus, car, scooter cause there are lots of road accident happens!!!!so
for god sake apply ur brain be4 u write some thing ....                Quoting 
jims...@yahoo.co.in:        > hello friends my name is  jimson simon and 
i am a kna       i want  to  asK u  some  qustions ple  answer  me      in
now  a days many  girls and boys are in ,our communinity are  living
like a bitch  they can do alll the bad things for them they  have an 
aNSWER THAT  WE ARE  KANAYANA AND  AFTER  DOING  ALL THE DIRTY THINGS
THEY ARE GOING TO GET MARRY AND SETTLED SO NOW I  HATE THIS COMMUNITITY
BECUSE  I AM NOT A DRINKER BUT IN OUR COMMUNITITY IF ANY BODY IS NOT
DRINKING HE IS  A FOOL   AND ALSO SO MANY FACTS THAT I CANNOT EXPLAIN  I
AM PREDICT THAT IF THIS COMMUNITITY IS GOING LIKE THIS THIS WILL BECAME
MORE WORST THAN ANY OTHER COMMUNITY IN THE WORLD AND THIS COMMUNITY HAVE
NO LIFE               
                ---------------------------------     Chat on a
cool, new interface. No download required. Click
here.    
      

[Tezso Jacob]

That was a good explanation given for the question .first change yourself that change will make the community also to change even i smoke ,drink and all and i know i cannot change and simply if i give speech on our community badness first person should be i only to be change.think positive on good side and try to keep this community from extincting donot allow our children to tell their was a community

 

that is for girls who jump easily to other community and even forget who was they

 

hope for the best

 

[Antony Jose]

Mr. JOY  THOMAS,  r u the movie producer of NIRAKUTTU.  Because the producer of that movie was a man named Joy Thomas and he was kna.  Anyway let me separate that and get into the real topic.  Let me ask u something Why did the Knanaya community kept the roots and tradition through many centuries ?  Well thats because of our blood bond to each other.  The Knanaya community is like a big network.  Everyone is related to each other in some way or the other. If we started allowing outsiders to come and hand over free membership to the community.  Then there is no point of u, me ,and all the other knanaya people to call us kna's.  Other example of that is when water is added to pure milk.  Does it called pure milk then?????   Jesus christ wanted everyone to follow his teachings in that part u r right.  But Jesus christ did not said to the knanaya people that U all should allow others to join knanaya community.  And Please don't mix KNANAYA community with any religion.  Our faith is CATHOLIC , but our community is KNANAYA.   The knanaya community had received 72 privelages and domination over 17 castes.  The knanaya community is a small community but its a royal community..........Thank u.

Joy Thomas <joyth...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[RakeshJohn]

HI ,
ya now things seems to have some sense. Joseph thanks for your
sensible mail

God has given our life to do some good things. If we have more we have
to share it with some one who is really needed. This what Christianity
teaches us.

If WE kna people wanted to be respected ..we need to lead a good life
and should show it to the society. If we can not show good values to
others no POINT IN SAYING WE ARE GOOD OR SUPERIOR...JUST get lost
...and it will vanish with the time.

I also support that people should be given freedom to get married from
out side. If this community need to survive. With my full heart i
wanted our community to continue...for our kids...

Guys think.
god bless you all,
Rakesh Packonayil.

> Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista(R) + Windows Live™.
> Start now!
> >
>

[Anjana Mathew]

hello jimson,

i am so happy to hear that u do not drink...praise God......definitely our drinking is causing a bad name to r community as we are famous for that  when we are supposed to be known for our evangelism as we came to this country to spread christianity....we need to pray very seriously that atleast the present generation will resist this evil habit and we can spread the love of God instead.....warm regds,

[joyson kuriakose]

i feel  our priest should GET A good  salary..also some perks...

they should ALSO live in a  decent  way...

 

let us take this  venue to  air our  views,,, so  that  this  meassage  goes  to

our samudayam" leaders/ bishops...etc...most of  the  chruch can  afford it..but

never a  thought is  given.....in this  direction....

 

k.joyson.

ERNAKULAM.

Tino Manimalethu

www.tinoraj.com

 

[jacob]

i really proude on our priests in old days...but the condition is changed for the new generation.... i don't want to explain more but general most our priests are not even keeping the ethics of a priests....... ( this is from my experiances)

[Manu zachariah]

Dear Avarachan,

 

The answer which u gave to Mr Jimson is very good . I think now everyone's doudt abt the future of this community must have been cleared . The community which survived for 1663 yrs will surely  survive until thers is sun ,stars in this universe.

 

 

Thanx

Manu Zachariah

Oorakkamannil

Noida

[Binoj Chacko]

coming to the point i higlighter in red.....

pls. understand jesus dint say u shud not allow anyone to enter ur community......

wat he said is to love all.... just love... and  love......

 

pls. understand dis.. and try to come out from the narrow concepts.. coz time changed.. lives changed......

 

u n me are the ppl to change de old customs.. n make the new world......

 

[Avarachan John]

Hi Rakesh,

 

I admit ur great mind. But i have to remember u one thing. U wrote that "people should be given freedom to get married from out side. If this community need to survive"... How can u tell like that rakesh. This community didnt started 2-3 years back. From last 1700 years our custom is like this. STILL OUR COMMUNITY SURVIVE :).  But as u said if we allowed to marry from out side then our community will start destroy. So Dont worry man this community will go like this for ever...

 

Thanks

 

Avarachan John

Eklm

 

[Shijumon Elias (NeSTIT)]

Hi all,

 

I have a genuine doubt. Assume Christ comes back and wants to join our community. Will we allow him to join our community?

 

Thanks

Shijumon

---

From: knanay...@googlegroups.com [mailto:knanay...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anjana Mathew
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 5:24 PM
To: knanay...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Don't hate our community!!

[Binoj Chacko]

Can any one answe me............

 

What made you proud, being a knananite ???????

am also a knananite.... but am searching for an answer to my Q.

 

Binoj

[K.J.Philip]

Hi mr. Joy Thomas,
Its not a question of our policy.
It is the question of the endogamous nature - the very basis - of
the knanaya community, which cannot be changed by anybody in this
world! If changed, it ceases to be knanaya. Your opinion only reveals
sheer ignorance about what is knanaya.
A knanite's father and mother should be knanites only. Otherwise
he is not a knanite. So one becomes a knanaya only by birth and cannot
be by adoption or recruitment. Once born, a knanite cannot become
anything other than that and a non-knannite can never become a
knanite. That's the knanaaya law and tradition. That is what is called
knanaya.
We are not deliberately throwing anybody from the knanaya
community. By the special endogamous nature, one automatically goes
out of it, when he discards endogamy by marrying a non-knanayite.
Nobody need throw him out. A community, whose basis of very existence
is endogamy, cannot accommodate anybody who breaks it. Such a person
is ruining the knanaya community.
Freedom to choose a spouse is a different question. If at all any
knanite marries a different spouse, he cannot be treated as a part of
the community anymore, though he will remain a knanite for ever.
Though all members of the community are knanites, all knanites (who
marry non-knanites) are not members of that community.
If at all anybody wants to maintain knanaya, it has to be only
endogamous. If not, the only option is to exterminate knanaya. We
cannot have the bread and eat it too at the same time.
So, if at all someone want to marry a non-knanite, let him. But
be known that he will be out of the community the very moment it
happens. Those who respect their parents, forefathers, ancestry, the
tradition and their community should follow the centuries old
tradition of endogamy and not to trait for personal gains, a great,
rare tradition with which he is luckily blessed with.
A knanite need to have, not only a birth as a result of
endogamy, but also to follow endogamy in his own marriage for the
existence of the community and the tradition.
The community cannot/ need not grow by adoption or recruitment.

Though basically the religion of knanites is Christianity, that
in itself is not a religion. They are the endogamic/endogamous
descendants of Knaithoma and his team. Please don't mix up
religion/faith and community. Anybody from any community can adopt
Christian faith. Christianity is not a Community, but a faith.
Dear brother, try to understand more about the endogamous
nature which is knanaya.
Affectionately,

K.J. Philip

On 1/25/0

[kj philip]

Hi,

     knanites are those born to knanite parents. One cud b a kna only by birth, not by adoption. Thats wht is knanaya.

    So, if somebody dreams of adopting non-knanaya spouses, let him only think of exterminating the knanaya community before it cud b done! Then why shud we hv knanaya community, parishes or diocese? Why cant b just christians like Syro-Malabar?! Why somebody wants to b a knanaya with the non-knanites within?! Why dont he think of total desstructiion of the knanaya community?!
KJ Philip

----- Original Message ----
From: alex esthappan <aesth...@yahoo.com>
To: knanay...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 8 January, 2008 7:46:46 AM
Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people are married from other community

Dear fellow Knanaites,

 

There is nothing wrong being a Kna, White, Black, Chinese, Northists, German, Punjabi, Brahmin, Harijans, etc.  All these people are very proud of their race and ethnicity.  They are born in to these groups not by their choice, but by God's choice.  They are all God's children.  However, when these groups create rules and practices due to hate and prejudices to discriminate and exclude others, that is what is wrong.  When one group thinks that they are superior and others inferior, that is what is wrong.  When whites insist to exclude blacks from their churches and public places, that is wrong.  When Brahmins insisted to exclude Harijans from Hindu Temple, that was wrong.  When they insisted to keep their superior caste status, that was wrong.  When they insisted to exclude their children who married a Harijan, it was wrong.  This is what is wrong with Knanaya community.  When this community insists to exclude Knas who marry non-Knas, their children, spouses and adopted children, to protect Kna purity, that is what is wrong.  Many people seem not to understand that this is wrong.  The people who practiced slavery were Christians; the people who practiced racial segregation were Christians; Knanaites who dominated and abused 17 lower castes were Christians, but they did not realize that their actions were wrong and unchristian.  Though we call ourselves Christians, we may not have any idea who Christ really is.  We worship our lord with our lips, but waste all our strengths to do unchristian actions. 

 

Many Knas, including me, do not support Knanaya community's exclusionary practices.  Even if we are absolutely pure Jewish endogamous group, which appears to be a dubious claim based on the recent DNA study, we do not support Knanaya Catholic community's compulsory exclusion of our children who marry non-Knas, based on moral, legal, humanitarian and civil rights principles.  I believe everybody is equal.  I believe everybody is the child of God.  I do not believe in purity or superiority.  I believe that our practice is against the ideology of unconditional love of Jesus Christ.  Knanaya purity and endogamy will not take us to heaven, but unconditional love of our fellow human beings, will.  Our practice is a hindrance to our salvation and to our well being as a community.  It is time for our bishops and priests to start to preach the ideology of unconditional love instead of absolute purity and endogamy.  It is time to start a new tradition of endogamy based on inclusion. 

 

 

Alex Kavumpurath

 

 

>

> > > Subject: [Knanaya Family] Re: Why some people
> are
> > married from other community
> > >
> > >

> > > Hi Ansu,
> > > knanaya is not a religion. Its only a community.
> > So no point in
> > > comparing them.
> > >
> > > One only 'happens' to be born as a knanite by
> > factors beyond his
> > > control. He cannot change this.
> > >
> > > Being a knanaya doesn't prevent you from being a
> > pious one.
> > >
> > > We should not live only for the life after life.
> > we are supposed
> > > to live here too. This is the plan of God.
> > >
> > > So if anybody feels 'special' about anything in
> > this world, it
> > > could be of being knanaya too. There is nothing
> > sinful/ wrong about it
> > > because a knanite's ancestry is unique, distinct
> > and special. Its only
> > > a fact. I will never say he should feel to be
> > superior anyway.
> > >
> > >
> > > KJ Philip
> > >

> > > On 12/5/07, ansu c wrote:
> > > > Hi Benitta
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > i dont think having a "base" in kna will take
> > you to heaven...by the by
> > > > what is the purpose of our life in this
> world??
> > Even if we have a base in
> > > > kna but dont know the word of God which is the
> > path way to heaven. I reckon
> > > > the life in earth is so short and it is an
> > oppurtunity for us to do godly
> > > > things while we are here and not to feel
> special
> > in being kna and not
> > > > knowing the word of god.
> > > >
> > > > I have my sister married outside kna but I
> cant
> > find any mistake in that
> > > > when they live a good life knowing the word of
> > God. I would like to see more
> > > > kna priest telling the word of God rather than
> > telling the greatness of kna.
>

=== message truncated ===



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[Thomas Elias Paarel]

Dear Binoj,

 

I wonder what made you ask this question!

 

The question should be to yourself "Who am I as a Kna?" If you know who you are, then you will surely know what you should be..

 

At that point this question will become null & void, for you as a Kna was always devoted and is devoted to God being one of his own selected people for all the generations from Abraham, Isaac & Jacob till now..

 

We are not to be emotional in Christianity but devotional in God through his Son and the Holy Spirit.. Once you know who you are, you will also know if it is pertinent to be proud of being a kna (as a community we are all supposed to be beyond these kind of things).. Keep asking the question to yourself and you will know the answer soon, for no one can teach you who you are and the answer has to come from within yourself..

 

Remember! Once you know oneself, there is nothing else to know in this world..

 

Love,

Thomas Elias Paarel 

[Kurian]

hi all...
    great  discussion  everyone.... its very hard to keep up with all mails (at least for me its hard). about an year ago we had a similar discussion in an orkut knanaya group. we had to stop that discussion because it reached that point where people almost started fighting. I hope this one won't have a similar result.
   
      I think its when people starts to think "only" logically, they feel like they don't need a community like this. In a way its true (logically) ... to be frank, I don't think our community has done much things to the world that we could be so proud of ourselves. I am sure, as Christians we all r doing or at least trying to do something. I am proud to be a Christian and mean while happy to be a knanaite.
      
      People who ask "why we need this community", should ask themselves WHY NOT?? I am sure you won't get any negative answer. R we doing anything bad to this world?? We r not asking anyone to join our community. We r not doing anything against Christianity. As far as I know we could still come to knanaya church even if we married from outside.

Just think of India's pride, TajMahal. For all logical thinkers, y is TajMahal considered as India's pride. I don't think TajMahal is bringing any profit to India. But its unique, one of its kind and when people think of India they think of Taj Mahal first. Its a wonder, no other country in  the world have it. its  built and kept with years of effort. its easy to destroy but hard to maintain.

    Like wise Knanaya community is not something one can start in a day. I agree we all r human and not everyone will be able to find a partner from our community. I don't agree that we should marry someone just because he/she is a Knanaya. But least thing  everyone could do is to start our partner search from our community first. If we couldn't find anyone here, then we don't have a choice. Just think how our grandparents and parents were able to keep it and handed over to us. We should at least" try to" protect it. We won't loose anything instead we could be proud children who did what our parents wanted.

   For those who r not able to make it , just don't try to make other to take the  fall with u. If you couldn't make it, help your brother/sister not to choose your way. just  don't think as " I couldn't do it, do you also don't need to do it"

Kurian Jacob
Pulimootil

--
Kurian

--
Kurian

[pradeesh mathew]

I agree with Joy Thomas. We have to change our Kna Laws and policies..just because CHANGE only can bring change !!!.

 

Regards

Mathew.

[Domy Tharayil]

Dear Mr .Phillip,

I been reading many of your write ups in the email groups and I admire the way you describe the need and nature of how endogamy works.  Endogamy is the foundation of existence for our community and without it the community cannot survive. Many people mix it up with religioun, rites etc.  In your write up below you have explained things in very clear and concise terms.

 

Thank you,

Domy Tharayil

"K.J.Philip" <kjphi...@gmail.com> wrote:

[joyal psmt]

Dear KJ Philip

I agree with Joy Thomas. We have to change our Kna
Laws and policies..just because CHANGE only can bring
change !!!.

Regards

Joyal

=== message truncated ===

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[Cyril Abraham]

The trouble with Mr.K.J.Philip's argument for the basis of the Knanaya identity is the naivety implicit in its substantiation of a myth: a myth no different from the "infallibility" of the pope, or the Adam and Eve stories, or the nature of the self-righteousness that sanctioned the torture of Galileo. It is no different from the fervour of the Muslims who have to appease a humourless Allah who dislikes Danish cartoons.

 

A good many of the true and proud sons and daughters of Kerala today have had an ancestry that has nothing even remotely resembling of their naturalized Keralite identity. The myth of Knanaya purity is very much in this vein: a claim that it is built on denial of its undocumented and illogical purity notions that turn a blind eye to 1500 years of information blackout. Ahmedinejad (of Iran) is in denial the holocaust. I guess that this is good enough to say that Ahmedinejad must be right!!!

 

Cyril Abraham

 

Domy Tharayil <mntha...@yahoo.com> wrote:

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