Who is a Knanaite - A New Definition to Bridge Moolakat and Angadiath formulas

[alex esthappan]

Because of the changes in the societal rules, we are compelled to take in our chartered bus additional groups of people whom we were not willing to take so far.  Mar Jacob Angadiath, with the backing of social and ecclesial rules, wants us to include non-endogamous Knas, their spouses, their children and adopted children of Knanaites, in addition to pure and endogamous Knas.  Mar Mathew Moolakat agrees to include only non-endogamous Knas.  He will not accept others contending that they are not Knas.  Is it true?  Let us examine. 

 

According to the tradition a Knanaite is a person born of a Knanaya mother and father and has to practice endogamy to be eligible to be a member of the community.  In theory it may be true, but there are many contradictory evidences to this theory:

 

1.    In reality, no population is 100% unmixed or completely isolated from other populations.  Genes can be shared between populations due to common origins, historical invasions, or slow diffusion by local contact over many generations.  This simple truth could not be untrue in case of Knanaya either.

 

2.      We have members with different colors and look in our community.  Generally white children look white, blacks look black, Chinese look Chinese, and Indians look Indians unless there is a mix in their ancestry.  If Knanaites have only pure Jewish ancestry, then they should look like Jews of Middle East, but they are not and generally look like other Indians.  The most likely reason for this similarity is mix up with native Kerala populations, in addition to evolutionary changes due to the environment in Kerala.

 

3.      The recent DNA study (the result of which was published in this forum before) organized by Mr. Cyriac Thannikary appears to support the above points.  It shows that Knanaya has significant similarity with other populations of Middle East and India, in addition to Jewish.  Mr. Cyriac Thannikary’s project has far more authenticity, details and analysis than the DNA study done by Suzanne Mazhuvanchery whose book was officially distributed at the KCCNA convention which includes her conclusion of Knanaya heritage based on DNA study.  Even she agrees in her book that we cannot rule out the possibility of people with non-Jewish heritage in our community.  These two DNA studies scientifically prove that all of the original Knanaya ancestors could not have been pure Jews and after coming to India they might have mingled with native populations. 

 

4.      Rev. Fr. Kollaparambil’s book “The Babylonian Origin of the Southists Among the St. Thomas Christians” contains historical evidences showing that Knanai Thomman, the founder of this community, married a local woman and had children.  If Knanai Thomman married a local woman, then it is pretty safe to assume that other Knanaya ancestors might have married local people as well.  This is the main reason, in my opinion, why Knanaya has an almost 50/50 genetic mix up between Middle Eastern and Indian populations as reported by DNA Tribes, Inc. 

 

5.      In addition to the mixed marriages in the early stages of our immigration as stated above, there is no point of denying (secret) relationships outside of marriage with non-Knanaites.  The following are two actual examples:

 

(A).  There was a young Knanaya widow in one of the parishes in Kerala.  She got involved with a non-Kna man and had a baby girl from that relationship.  As per our tradition the mother is still eligible to be with the community, though she had non-endogamous relationship, but the girl is not. 

 

(B).  A married Knanaya woman in one of the parishes in Kerala had a son who looked like a carbon copy of a non-Kna man in the neighborhood.  The general talk of the locality is that the boy is the son of that non-Kna man.  That boy grew up as an active member of the parish and associations there.  When the boy was grown up, he married a Knanaya girl and they have several children, boys and girls.  He, his family and his children’s families will always be “pure” Knas. 

 

6.      While we exclude Knas who marry non-Knas and their children in the name of endogamy, we do not have any mechanism to detect and exclude Knas who engage in relationships as in the example B above and the children from that relationship.  As long as this is kept secret, these children are “pure” Knas.  If it becomes public, they are not Knas.  Funny, isn’t it?  We treat receiving sacrament of marriage as a crime punishable by expulsion, but acting against God’s commandment is not punished. 

 

If we have people with different colors, look and DNA, if the founder of Knanaya community was a non-endogamous person, if our practices are in outright conflict with the Christian and current social ideals, and if it leads to loss of so many of our next generation, the current definition of Knanaya has lost its relevance.  The current definition based on purity cannot include most of the Knanaites of today.  Most of the current members are mixed-Knanaites due to historical mix-ups.  If we are mixed-Knas, I do not see any point of excluding mixed Kna kids from the present and future marriages between a Kna and a non-Kna.  Mixed Kna children from relationships as in 4(B) above will be Knas anyway.  So, based on the current realty there should not be any problem to accept Barack Obamas and Rahul Gandhis of our families as Knanaites. 

 

Now the question is, what should we do with adopted children of Knanaya parents and non-Kna spouses of Knas?  They are not genetically connected to Knanaya ancestors.  However, they can legally claim the status as the children of Knanaya ancestors being a part of a Knanaya family through adoption and marriage.  They have legal rights of inheritance.  Every Kna and the community must treat them as our own adopted children, and our own son/daughter/brother/sister-in laws.  We can call them as naturalized Knas and others as born Knas like in the case of American citizenship.  Let us Knananize them.  Sonia Gandhis of our families must be treated as our own, not as an outcast.  Moreover, based on the evidences listed above it is very clear that Knanaya group included non-Jewish people before and after arriving in Kerala. 

 

So, who is a Knanaite?  Based on scientific, non-scientific and historical evidences and current realty, a Knanaite is a person who can claim the status as a child of Knanaya ancestors.  This is the only one that fit all the current members who have different color, look and DNA.  If we redefine Knanaya this way, we can include all our children as part of our community.  We can call them Pure Knas, Mixed Knas, Endogamous Knas, Non Endogamous Knas, Adopted Knas, Born Knas, Naturalized Knas, etc.  Insisting to exclude any of them in the name of racial purity is a racist idea unfit to a Christian community.  I may not like to sit near a Kna who has black skin color or a Chinese nose or an Indian look.  That is my problem, but not a good reason to exclude them.  Archbishop of Kottayam must not entertain this kind of ideas.  It is time to preach the ideology of unconditional love of Jesus Christ instead of absolute purity.  It is time to end our disputes by agreeing that every member of our families has a right to be a member of our community.  It is time to embrace Angadiath formula without any reservation and to extend it to Kottayam as well.

 

 

Alex Kavumpurath

[Sundeep Thamarappally]

A Knanaite is one who is zealous for God. According to Dr. John Healey
of Manchester University, "the true origin of the term lies in Aramaic
qan'ana,meaning "enthusiast, zealot". The Semitic root is QN. In the
Syriac New Testament the word is rendered by q'nanaya. We have to ask
why a word meaning "zealot" might have been borrowed in this way. The
term is not important in the New Testament. The zealots were a group
of political revolutionari.es fighting against the Romans. Maybe the
term was also used of "enthusiasts for God" , but I am not aware of
any evidence of that from early Christian times."

The truth is that Knanaya, which is a Greek corruption of Qnanaya, is
a term that denotes an entity which represents a Messianic Jewish
group that had pleaded to God for sending the Messiah to redeem Judea
from its evil ways. Knanaya represents Messianic Judaism and is
different from modern Christianity. This was recognized by the early
Church when Paul had voiced his differences with Peter so much so that
a council was called at Jerusalem under the leadership of James the
Brother of Jesus to resolve this issue. It was decided at the Council
that there will be two groups of devotees of the Messiah. The gentiles
who believed in Jesus needed to follow only two laws which were known
as Noahide Laws and were called Christians while the Jewish devotees
maintained their Jewish practices and were called Nazarenes. The two
entities were recognized as legally valid groups and there was no
compulsion to convert the followers of one group into the otherm until
the Council of Nicea under the Roman Emperor Constantine in AD 325.
The Knanaites fall within the Nazarene entity which continued to
uphold the Jewish identity while accepting Jesus as the Messiah born
to the Holy Virgin Mary. Even Paul accepted this decision when he
accepted James' advice and sponsored the Nazirite vows of four
Nazarene followers. He led them to the Temple in obedience and was
arrested at the Temple.

A Knanaite can never be a Christian and should never accept a person
who has crossed over from the second group to the first group on his
on volition. It is akin to converting a pagan into Judaism to accept
Jesus as the Messiah. Also, if a Kna (QN) accepts that he belongs to
the first group, then he is admitting that his forefathers were pagan
at some point of time. This is against the age old belief that our
forefathers were Jewish.

THIS THEN IS THE HISTORICAL DEFINITION OF KNANAYA WHICH IS THE ARAMAIC
WORD FOR THE HEBREW SINGULAR TERM KNAI AND THE SEMITIC ROOT WORD FOR
BOTH THESE TERMS IS QN OR WHAT WE POPULARLY WRITE AS KNA.

Regards,

Sundeep Abraham

P.S.- We do not have to be worried about the diminishing population of
the true QNs. If we started with 72 families, we still only need a
minimum of 72 families to still exist.

[Sara and Zach]

Sandeep With all due respect to your studies and theology,I think this is not accaptable for any Christians to say or even think such things.I am not even sure what you mean by this?

"A Knanaite can never be a Christian and should never accept a person who has crossed over from the second group to the first group on his on volition. It is akin to converting a pagan into Judaism to accept Jesus as the Messiah. Also, if a Kna (QN) accepts that he belongs to the first group, then he is admitting that his forefathers were pagan at some point of time. This is against the age old belief that our forefathers were Jewish."

--- On Sat, 9/6/08, Sundeep Thamarappally <sundeep...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Niroopa...@slashsupport.com]

Hi All

Iam equally surprised and pained on this statement, that the “A Knanaite can never be a Christian”. The arguments and views on practice of endogamy shouldn’t be culminated to the very questioning of our belief. This statement personally to me is rejecting our Lord to justify man made laws and culture. While introspecting, I was taken back by the fact that we all are awaiting the Second Coming of our Lord and any statements that shake our foundation of faith will tend to mislead our younger generations. Appreciate if all of us can ponder on this.


Best Regards
Niroopa

Sara and Zach <saraku...@yahoo.com> Sent by: knanay...@googlegroups.com 09/16/2008 04:27 AM Please respond to knanay...@googlegroups.com

To knanay...@googlegroups.com cc

[kj philip]

Knanaya-Law   1.      To be a #‘knanite’, one has to be born to knanite (both) parents.   2.   To continue and recognized to be a part / member of the *##‘Knanaya-                         Community’, the knanite should not be in wedlock with a non-knanite.   Definitions      #   ‘Knanites’ are the traditional endogamous descendants of KnaiThoma or of any member                                    of his team, who accompanied him to India.       In other words, they are those born only to knanite parents.        ## ‘Knanaya-Community’ is the community of knanites not in wedlock with a non-knanite.    * ‘Knanaya’  is the name of the Community and invariably the traditional endogamous-nature.   --- On Mon, 15/9/08, Sara and Zach <saraku...@yahoo.com> wrote:

---

Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India Messenger.

[Sundeep Thamarappally]

It is quite surprising that we seem to have forgotten the path we took
to reach here over the last 2000 years since the ascension of our
Savior and Messiah Jesus. The Bible tells us that the word Christian
was coined in Antioch during the period of the disciples' apostolic
missions in Asia much after the ascension of Jesus. [read Acts
11:19-26] This term was used to denote those pagans (Hellenists) who
converted from other religions into the faith in Jesus. But this does
not take into consideration the status of those followers of Jesus who
accepted His teachings during His Mission in this world. The Jewish
followers were called Nazarenes and hence they did not have to be
known by a new identity called Christian. This difference is evident
when one compares verse 19 with verse 26 of Chap 21 in ACTS and the
difference is sealed in Chap 21 verse 20-25 when James, the Just,
tells Paul to convince the Jewish Nazarenes who are zealous for the
Law (or Knanaites) that he walks orderly according to the Jewish
customs keeping the Laws of Moses while for the Gentile Christians,
they need not observe these practices except refrain from things
offered to idols, from blood, and from sexual impurity.

So, I would like to put things into proper perspective which anyone
could cross-check with historical records. Jesus never preached about
a new religion divorced from Judaism, so his disciples continued to
pray at Jewish synagogues and we even have Paul visiting the Holy
Temple during a Jewish Festival. Hence, all those gentiles who wished
to be a follower of Jesus was originally prescribed the Jewish
conversion procedure consisting of circumcision and accepting the laws
of Moses. This practice was followed until Paul, the Pharisee who
became an apostle after the miraculous intervention of the Lord, on
the road to Damascus, objected vehemently and demanded a Synod to
debate this issue. Paul criticized this practice and demanded that it
was too vexatious to impose the Jewish Law upon converts and that they
were liberated from the burden of following the archaic laws by
following merely the teachings of the Savior. This matter was then
brought up and discussed before the Jerusalem Council headed by James
the Just, who is also called the brother of the Lord by Paul. These
matters are well codified in the Bible in the Acts of the Apostles
[read Chap 15 & 21 of ACTS, specially verse 20-25 of Chap 21]. The
first Holy Synod attended by the Apostles, the first witnesses of the
Lord, took a very important decision - to create two branches of the
following. This decision of the HOLY SYNOD of JERUSALEM should never
be questioned by any follower of JESUS. This Synod is much more holier
than the Synod of Nicea and no decision of this Synod can ever be
overruled by any later Synods either. At the Synod, the two branches
created were for the Nazarenes and the Christians. To the Nazarenes,
the original practice of Judaism was prescribed and to the gentile
Christians, only two laws were prescribed. [Acts 21:24-25]

It was at the Council of Nicea in AD 325, that it was decided to
excommunicate the Nazarenes by the Christian bishops. This Synod was
headed by Emperor Constantine who made Christianity the official
religion of the Roman Empire. It was here that both the streams of
followers were united into a single stream under the denomination of
Christians and this was achieved by excommunicating the Nazarene
stream. It was against this decision that the 72 Knanaites led by Mar
Joseph and Knai Thoma left the Roman Empire and sought refuge in
India. Also, it is remarkable to note that the word Christian was
never used in Kerala before the advent of the Portuguese missionaries
more than 1000 years after the mission of the Knanaites. This too,
despite the knowledge that usage of the expression Nazarene or Nasrani
was banned by the Synod of Nicea just 20 years before the migration.
Why was the word Christian not used in Kerala then? Another practice
banned by the Synod of Nicea was the celebration of Passover by
preparing Indri appam. An Imperial Order was passed to confiscate and
sell under public auction the properties of those Christians who
celebrated Passover which is a Jewish Festival. It was perhaps because
of this Order that the Knanaites celebrate Passover in a very private
manner without inviting any Christian friend for sharing the Holy
Meal.

The Nazarene followers of the Jerusalem Church of James the Just is
today represented by the Knanaya community. The Church may not be
existent anymore in the form of a physical structure, but it is still
very much alive in the form of the Knanaya Community and hence this
community should be preserved until the Second Coming of the Messiah.
We may also remember that it is not by our merit that we survive even
to this day, but it is by the grace of God that we exist despite all
odds against us and the threat of many diseases because of
intramarriage practices. It brings to my mind another parable used in
the Bible - that of the wise and foolish virgins with burning oil
lamps awaiting the arrival of the Bridegroom. Recall, that those who
saved oil were not entitled to share it with those who ran out of oil.
[Mathew 25: 1-13]

Hence, I merely state here that we have a duty to preserve whatever
heritage we have been bestowed with from the time of our ancestors who
were possibly the first hand witnesses of our Savior and we have a
duty to preserve these customs through our descendants until the
arrival of the Messiah in spite of all the odds that we face in our
lifetime. We are put through many tests like the test of Job, and as
in his case, we must pass the critical tests and hurdles for which we
will be rewarded. If we fail, then the result is in the Lord's
hands...

We are not creating any new dogma, only preserving traditions that has
been handed over to us by our forefathers. I am merely trying to
explore the origins of these traditions. I may be wrong, but there is
nothing wrong in trying to search for the origin of these traditions
so long as we cause no harm to its continuity...

regards,

Sundeep

On Sep 18, 8:33 pm, Niroopa.Paul...@slashsupport.com wrote:
> Hi All
>
> Iam equally surprised and pained on this statement, that the “A Knanaite
> can never be a Christian”. The arguments and views on practice of endogamy
> shouldn’t be culminated to the very questioning of our belief. This
> statement personally to me is rejecting our Lord to justify man made laws
> and culture. While introspecting, I was taken back by the fact that we all
> are awaiting the Second Coming of our Lord and any statements that shake
> our foundation of faith will tend to mislead our younger generations.
> Appreciate if all of us can ponder on this.
>
> Best Regards
> Niroopa
>

> Sara and Zach <sarakuruvi...@yahoo.com>

> Sent by: knanay...@googlegroups.com
> 09/16/2008 04:27 AM
> Please respond to
> knanay...@googlegroups.com
>
> To
> knanay...@googlegroups.com
> cc
>
> Subject
> [Knanaya Family] Re: Who is a Knanaite - A New Definition to Bridge
> Moolakat and  Angadiath formulas
>
> Sandeep
> With all due respect to your studies and theology,I think this is not
> accaptable for any Christians to say or even think such things.I am not
> even sure what you mean by this?
> "A Knanaite can never be a Christian and should never accept a person
> who has crossed over from the second group to the first group on his
> on volition. It is akin to converting a pagan into Judaism to accept
> Jesus as the Messiah. Also, if a Kna (QN) accepts that he belongs to
> the first group, then he is admitting that his forefathers were pagan
> at some point of time. This is against the age old belief that our
> forefathers were Jewish."
>

> --- On Sat, 9/6/08, Sundeep Thamarappally <sundeepabra...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> From: Sundeep Thamarappally <sundeepabra...@gmail.com>

> lost its relevance....
>
> read more »

[Peter Chemmalakuzhy]

Dear Mr. KJ Philip:   Let me be the devil's advocate for a moment..   We all know the definition of a Kna. However, the application of it is cumbersome. What is the proof that one is born to Kna parents?; word of mouth among us by a majority or through a well maintained document kept somewhere or through the word of our Bishops.   When we live closer geographically, it is kind of easy though not full-proof. We have to have a well defined system to keep track of the genealogy especially when we are now spread all over the world. Otherwise, it would be even more difficult to prove this in the future.   Let us brainstorm on this issue. Encourage your opinion...   Thanks   Peter Chemmalakuzhy.   --- On Fri, 9/19/08, kj philip <phil...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[kj philip]

Dear Mr Peter,      Yes, you are correct. Everybody knows who a knanite is.       No proof other than the word of one's knanite mother to decide whether he is born to  a knanite father or not! It is the only social way. Of courese, DNA evidence could be there. Majority's or the a Bishop's  word cannot be vailid. Even documentation need not be true!      Nobody could disprove by evidence, possibility of any illegal births  some time in the past and the resultant continuity of impurity!!!       But no need to worry about that! If we think that way, there cannot be any race in the world where there is no possibility of such impurities! so, Knanaya need not be taken as a perfect exception! The Bible says your belief will save you?! Lets believe our mothers and ancestors regarding our endogamous birhs. There is no othetr practical way!       What is important is whether the knanaya community is still strict in the practice of endogamy for one to be considered to be a part / member of the Community. Even if whether there is any unknown case of impurity it cannot affect the Community as long as it strictly follows the tradition of endogamy. ( Any known case of impurity will not find a place in the Community.)       Though knanaya has doesn't have a written law, its main law is to practice endogamy. It is enforced and conveyed through generations by strict traditions. The Community , as everybody knows, is still strict on this tradition.        Thank you so much for your genuine comments.                                                                                                Philip KJ.      what --- On Tue, 23/9/08, Peter Chemmalakuzhy <pcku...@yahoo.com> wrote:

exclude them.  Archbishop of Kottayam must not entertain this kind of ideas..

It is time to preach the ideology of unconditional love of Jesus Christ instead of absolute purity.  It is time to end our disputes by agreeing that every >  member of our families has a right to be a member of our community.  It is time to embrace Angadiath formula without any reservation and to extend it to Kottayam as well. > > Alex Kavumpurath

Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India Messenger.

---

Did you know? You can CHAT without downloading messenger. Click here

[joyson kuriakose]

dear  all,   i  think  we  had  enough discussions  on  this  subjects   ,and  it  is  going to  be  never  ending....also  it  hurts many.   ..moderater .MR..VINOD KURIAKOSE. on  his part ,,, many  times requested,,,and..,pleaded.. to maintain a  decent approch....as  such.....i  suggest...let  us    stop...bringing back....definitions of ,,,who is knanaite...etc....since  this  is  a  forum  OF knanaite,,,...request only  those  who really  feel  and  sure...and  ofcourse  the  guidelines put by   our dear....moderater.responds,,as  per  the  guidelines.. suggested by him..only to ensure a  code  and  conducts...his  efforts  also  to   be  appreciated....since no one  else  even  thought about  this  type  of  forum....   finalley  even  if  skipped one steps..a kna  who  even forced  to  swtiched  over to  some   belief  by  the  force  of  his  circumstances..is also  feel  proud  when  he  is  in  a  pvt  talk...that  is  the  real  effect    of knas value  and  principles...   MY RESPECTS  AND  LOVE  TO all  knas,,..and  in  solidaritey  I PRAY FOR  ALL  OF YOU.   WITH   REGARDS,,, k.  joyson...ekm

--- On Tue, 9/23/08, Peter Chemmalakuzhy <pcku...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Domy Tharayil]

Alex,
You stated:
"Every Kna is aware of these rules. "
 
You are correct indeed.  We all know that the rules in K. J Phillip's emial are the rules every Knayaya person understood.  Those are the fundamental rules (or concepts) that gave our community a unique identity and kept it together until now.  So those rules need to remain unchanged and followed in order for this community to continue. Just because some of you cannot agree with it, we simply cannot alter them.  Because if we change or modify the fundamental rules then it is not the same community any more. If we change the rules that make this community unique, then the community looses it's uniqueness. So, when people like you advocate on changing the rules, in effect you are advocating for the distruction of this community.
 
Mr .Phillip keeps posting these rules because some of you keep trying to mislead the readers with arguments that lack credibility and thus continue your afforts to end our community. If you are irritated seeing his emails stating these rules, then think how tired many of the readers in these forums are of seeing your lengthy emails with the same invalid arguments over and over.

Domy Tharayil

--- On Mon, 9/29/08, alex esthappan <aesth...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: alex esthappan <aesth...@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ Knanaya News ] Who is a Knanaite - A New Definition to Bridge Moolakat and Angadiath formulas
To: knanay...@googlegroups.com, knanay...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "kj philip" <phil...@yahoo.com>, kna...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 8:44 PM

I do not understand why K.J. Philip keeps posting the so-called “Knanaya Law” as an answer to all questions and comments. Every Kna is aware of these rules. But many Knas including me do not agree with the rules. We want to change the rules. Based on the evidences below, we believe most of the Knanaites do not fit to the “Knanaya Law”. If you agree with any of the points below, the “Knanaya Law” could not be based on truth and realty. So, I encourage K.J. Philip to state why he thinks all the points below are wrong:

1. In reality, no population is 100% unmixed or completely isolated from other populations. Genes can be shared between populations due to common origins, historical invasions, or slow diffusion by local contact over many generations. This simple truth could not be untrue in case of Knanaya either.

2. Generally white children look white, blacks look black, Chinese look Chinese, and Indians look Indians unless there is a mix in their ancestry. If Knanaites have only pure Jewish ancestry, then they should look like Jews of Middle East, but they are not and generally look like other Indians. The most likely reason for this similarity is mix up with native Kerala populations, in addition to evolutionary changes due to the environment in Kerala.

3. The recent DNA study (the result of which was published in this forum before) organized by Mr. Cyriac Thannikary appears to support the above points. It shows that Knanaya has significant similarity with other populations of Middle East and India, in addition to Jewish. Mr. Cyriac Thannikary’s project has far more authenticity, details and analysis than the DNA study done by Suzanne Mazhuvanchery whose book was officially distributed at the KCCNA convention which includes her conclusion of Knanaya heritage based on DNA study. Even she agrees in her book that we cannot rule out the possibility of people with non-Jewish heritage in our community. These two DNA studies scientifically prove that all of the original Knanaya ancestors could not have been pure Jews and after coming to India they might have mingled with native populations.

4. Rev. Fr. Kollaparambil’ s book “The Babylonian Origin of the Southists Among the St. Thomas Christians” contains historical evidences showing that Knanai Thomman, the founder of this community, married a local woman and had children. If Knanai Thomman married a local woman, then it is pretty safe to assume that other Knanaya ancestors might have married local people as well. This is the main reason, in my opinion, why Knanaya has an almost 50/50 genetic mix up between Middle Eastern and Indian populations as reported by DNA Tribes, Inc.

5. In addition to the mixed marriages in the early stages of our immigration as stated above, there is no point of denying (secret) relationships outside of marriage with non-Knanaites. The following are two actual examples:

(A). There was a young Knanaya widow in one of the parishes in Kerala. She got involved with a non-Kna man and had a baby girl from that relationship. As per our tradition the mother is still eligible to be with the community, though she had non-endogamous relationship, but the girl is not.

(B). A married Knanaya woman in one of the parishes in Kerala had a son who looked like a carbon copy of a non-Kna man in the neighborhood. The general talk of the locality is that the boy is the son of that non-Kna man. That boy grew up as an active member of the parish and associations there. When the boy was grown up, he married a Knanaya girl and they have several children, boys and girls. He, his family and his children’s families will always be “pure” Knas.

6. While we exclude Knas who marry non-Knas and their children in the name of endogamy, we do not have any mechanism to detect and exclude Knas who engage in relationships as in the example B above and the children from that relationship. As long as this is kept secret, these children are “pure” Knas. If it becomes public, they are not Knas. Funny, isn’t it? We treat receiving sacrament of marriage as a crime punishable by expulsion, but acting against God’s commandment is not punished.

If you cannot prove all the points above are wrong, it may be more productive to put forward some constructive suggestions how to replace the pure “Knanaya Law” with an inclusive Knanaya law to fit to the truth, realty and new circumstances. Do not be afraid or ashamed to accept truth.

Alex Kavumpurath

kj philip <philipifs@yahoo. com> wrote:
Knanaya-Law <!--[if !supportEmptyParas] --> <!--[endif]- ->
<!--[if !supportLists] -->1. <!--[endif]- ->To be a #‘knanite’, one has to be born to knanite (both) parents. <!--[if !supportEmptyParas] --> <!--[endif]- ->
2. To continue and recognized to be a part / member of the *##‘Knanaya- Community’, the knanite should not be in wedlock with a non-knanite. <!--[if !supportEmptyParas] --> <!--[endif]- ->
Definitions
# ‘Knanites’ are the traditional endogamous descendants of KnaiThoma or of any member

of his team, who accompanied him to

__._,_.___
Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
Messages | Database | Calendar
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The operators of " KNANAYA-NEWS "assume no liability for the actions or statements of the posting party.

Send a E-mail to  Santhosh Chackungal at Sant...@kccna.com with a questions or comments about "KNANAYA NEWS " Yahoo Group. http://www.knanayaNews.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

Visit Your Group

Discover photos
and scrapbooking
groups in the
Familyographer Zone

Health Groups
for people over 40
Join people who are
staying in shape.

Dog Fanatics
on Yahoo! Groups
Find people who are
crazy about dogs.
.
__,_._,___