Re :Re: [Knanaya Family] Re :Re: Fwd: Cruelty towards Adopted Children
jaimon mathew
Hi Alex,
I understand from your mail that you do not like to be convinced.
So, I doubt if there is any meaning in continuing. Any way I would like to point out a few facts to you.
1. We do not claim that we are superior race. We are just rational animals
like any body. We just follow the will and wishes of our parents and grand parents.
Any body else should not have any problem in that.
2. You asked me, "Will you feel any pain if your family exclude you, suppose, you married a non-Kna? "
My answer to you is that even I had got a good proposal from a non-Kna family.
But I preferred to be in the Knanaya community. I knew that we cant have the cake and eat it too.
I think most of the Knanaya people in this forum must have got good proposals from non-Kna
people. But they are in the community even today as they preferred to be in the community.
3. I have already told you in my previous mails that any systematic organization or community will have
its own rules and regulations. If you cant follow the rules and regulations of the community, you will
be asked to leave the community. What is wrong in that? Is it not the normal practice any where and
every where? I have five cousin brothers who married non-Knas. My own sister has married a non-Kna
person. They were not kids when they were marrying. They preferred to be out of the community
for their personal gains. Why should you or me feel sorry for them?
4. Marriage is not some thing bad. We all have done it or are supposed to do it some day.
All human beings are supposed to do it as per the natural law. But a Catholic priest in the
Latin Rite marries some one, he is thrown out. But why? Is it not injustice as per you?
Why dont you speak against it? The priest is a human being. All human beings have the
right to marry once. It is a perfect practice as per natural law and natural justice. In fact celebacy
is against natural law. Hope you understand what I want to communicate.
5. Alex, you are not in minority. A few thousands of Knanaya people alone are in one side.
The whole world is against us. So, never ever think that you are in minority.
But I dont think any body will be able to stop us. We will continue to follow the will and wishes of our forefathers.You told, "In Biju Uthup’s case the court decision was against Kottayam diocese"
So, is Mr. Biju Uthup, the member of Kottayam diocese now? I had heard the higher court's
verdict was in favour of our practices. Please correct me if I am wrong.
6. The Catholic Church does not allow women to become priests. But why?
Are not man and woman equal? Have you ever thought about it? I always
thought it as a very bad practice from the Catholic Church. The practice is inhuman and against natural justice.
I would have really appreciated if you had used your time and energy against
the inhuman practices like this.
With regards,
Jaimon Mathew
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:57:11 -0700 (PDT) alex esthappan wrote
Jaimon, We all know Knanaya diocese is for Knanaites and who a Kna is. Our dilemma is that we insist to exclude a Kna from our church just because he/she married a non-Kna. This is mistreatment of our children unacceptable to current social conscience. It was perfect in a caste-based
society. That is the reason why we practiced it for 1700 years. In today’s society it will be challenged in every possible way. As I indicated in the last mail the Church or pope has no problem to include our brothers and sisters in the Knanaya church regardless of their DNA structure or endogamous status. But, it is not happening because we prefer purity to humanity, a racist idea. Nobody is interested to join a Knanaya church who is not a Kna and not a catholic
(Jacobaya) member of our family. Denying a non-Kna member of our family membership in our church is like denying American or Indian citizenship to a Kna just because he/she is a Kna. How many Knas will approve that? They will cry foul against the Whites in America. I became an American citizen not because I am born here but through a naturalization process. We may have to create such a process to solve our disputes, if you will. Exclusion is against Jesus teachings, Christian ideals, and current social ideals. It is harmful to our interests. We are loosing so many of our next generation, especially the best and the
brightest. If the community is not able to find a compromise, the dispute will be solved by the intervention of the external forces like courts and Catholic hierarchy. The church has already banned it here in America. A few years ago Rome reviewed this practice at Kottayam as well, but allowed to continue. But, how long? In Biju Uthup’s case the court decision was against
Kottayam diocese. It has yet to be tested in American courts, but will be in the near future. Our tradition is based on many misconceptions, as were slavery, racial segregation and caste system. Slavery and racial segregation was based on the belief that Blacks were less than human beings and caste system was based on the belief of superiority of certain castes. Endogamy is based on the misguided belief that Jewish blood is more pure than others. Not even Jews believe that. They accept others to their community through some ritualistic process. Why don’t we do that as well? Jesus specifically told Jews to end their
endogamous practices and love everybody equally and as Christians we have an obligation to obey his teachings. It is unfortunate that you still do not understand the harm and pain we cause to our own children, brothers and sisters by insisting exclusion. Will you feel any pain if your family exclude you, suppose, you married a non-Kna? Doesn't matter what I say, it seems that you will not be convinced. I doubt anybody will convince me, either, to agree with an absolute exclusionary policy. It was impossible to convince Abraham Lincoln to accept slavery even though vast majority of his people was against him because it was against his conscience. Like that my conscience does not approve to exclude my children or your children from our church and association in the name of racial purity against their will. Race and DNA structure are God given which you have no control and mistreatment based on that is horrible. It is irrational to expect that the people will keep suffering this injustice forever without fighting back.
Alex Kavumpurath jaimon mathew
wrote: Hi Alex,1. None of us require your help to understand who a southist is.We all know it . We have a tradition which is about 1700 years long. You did not answer my basic question: how can you have non-southistsin the diocese which was established exclusively for the southists byone of the greatest saints of the catholic church? 2. The Catholic Church is not rigid. It gives freedom to its believersto follow their own traditions. The Vatican Council II is very clear about it.I quote: "All members of the Eastern Churches should be firmly convinced that they can and ought always preserve their own legitimate liturgical rite and ways of life, and that changes are to be introduced only to
forward their own organic development. They themselves are to carry out all these prescriptions with the greatest fidelity. They are to aim always at a more perfect knowledge and practice of their rites, and if they have fallen away due to circumstances of times or persons, they are to strive to return to their ancestral traditions. Those who by reason of their office or apostolic ministry have frequent dealings with the Eastern Churches or their faithful should be instructed as their office demands in theoretical and practical knowledge of the rites, discipline, doctrine, history and character of the members of the Eastern Churches” (Orientalium Ecclesiarum no. 6). Mr. Alex, please try to understand the broadminded mentality of the church. Do you know in many Eastern Rites (of the Catholic Church),the priests can marry. But the priests in our parishes are not even allowed to go with a girl even for an outing? But are they not in the Catholic Church?What
do you think about it Mr. Alex? 3. As far as I know, many people had approached the Indian courts.But ultimately, the courts upheld our practices.(Please correct me with details, if I am wrong). 4. I am sorry I cant commend about what you are practisingand what you are not practising in America, as I am not in America.But I know most of the Knanaya people of US still prefer tomarry from within the community. It just means they also respectour traditions. If any body in US feels suffocated due to this practice,they can always move out.5. If a father is a politician, business man or a government offiecer,he may be attending a lot of meetings.Will he be able to take his son for all his official meetings?Will the son lose any thing if he was not taken to these meetings?Will he be harmed in any way? Did the adopted child lose any
thingas he/she was not taken to the Knanaya convention?Tell me in what way the child was harmed?Mr. Alex, we do not harm any body in practising endogamy. We are just fulflling the will and wishes of our parents and grand parents.With regardsJaimon MathewOn Sun, 6 Jul 2008 19:11:24 -0700 (PDT) alex esthappan wroteJaimon, You and I may want to practice so many things and traditions. But, we don’t have a right to practice those if it harms others and does not comply with the rules of the society and organizations we are part of. Archdiocese of Kottayam is an entity within the Catholic Church. It has to follow the church rules to be a part of the church. And the church has to operate within the rules of the country to continueas a legal entity. Now, there is a conflict with regards to Knanaya practice of exclusion in Kerala and in America. Since the Catholic Church wants
to operate within the social and legal rules of America the church has banned our practice in America. The church still tolerates our practice in Kerala, though does not encourage or promote it, because it is still tolerable in Kerala's social environment. But, there are very clear signals from the church, court, society and our children that this practice is unwelcome. It is up to us to heed the warnings on the wall and make changes. It is unfortunate that the Catholic Church still tolerates our racial practice in Kerala. It is a mystery why the church which should be the guiding light of morality in this world acting this way. It may be because the hierarchy does not want to accept their mistakes because of the infallible claim of popes. Nevertheless, I do not see much wrong in Pope Pious X’s order creating Kottayam diocese. It was for Southists, but does not define who a Southist is. It does not say that
Kottayam diocese should exclude a Southist (Kna) marrying a non-Kna and their children. Actually when we exclude a Kna we are acting against the pope’s order. The church has no problem to accept adopted, non-endogamous and mixed children of Knanaya parents in the Knanaya church and associations. What is preventing it to happen is our mindset that prefers racial purity to humanity. After reading Jose Kallidikil’s letter how could you say that our practice does not harm anybody! You consider not allowing Knanaya parents to bring their adopted children to Knanaya convention a compassionate act andyour right. We consider it a cruel act and denial of their right for equal treatment. We are endogamous Knas and follow Knanaya rules currently, but will continue exercising our fundamental right of freedom of speech to hit Knanaya racial mindset and will do everything in our power to end this racial policy.
Alex Kavumpurath jaimon mathew wrote: Hi Alex,If you know that the Archdiocese of Kottayam has certain rules and traditions, then you should also know that theserules and traditions should be followed if you are a member of the Archdiocese of Kottayam. I thinkyou may also know that the diocese of Kottayam was established by one of the greatest saints of the Catholic Church, St. Pius Xexclusively for the southists (Knanayas). Now answer me logically: how can you have non - southists in the diocese that was exclusively created for the southists?. Answer me this question before you come out with your next set of ideas. You can never compare endogamy with slavery or untouchability. Slavery and untouchability are harmful to the human race as a whole. We, the Knanaya people do not harm any body. We follow our traditions as our parents, grandparents wanted us to follow our traditions. We just follow
them without HARMING any body. I could not understand what is your problem if we follow the will and wishes of our forefathers? Don't we have the right to follow our own traditions? Are we also not human beings?With regardsJaimon MathewNote: Forwarded message attached-- Original Message--From: alex esthappan To: jaimon mathew Cc: joelj...@yahoo.com, knanay...@googlegroups.com, knanay...@yahoogroups.com, Luk...@aol.comSubject: Cruelty towards Adopted Children From: alex esthappan Subject: Cruelty towards Adopted ChildrenTo: jaimon mathew CC: joelj...@yahoo.com,knanay...@googlegroups.com,knanay...@yahoogroups.com, Luk...@aol.com Jaimon, We know Archdiocese of Kottayam has certain rules and traditions. That doesn’t mean we agree with it. We consider not admitting an adopted child of a Knanaya parent to Knanaya convention is
cruel and inhuman treatment. You consider this a great tradition and are very proud of it. We understand that it is not an easy task toconvince you and other Knas to end this cruel practice. It is not anything new. It was not easy to convince slave owners to free their slaves, it was not easy to convince racial segregationist to accept integration, and it was not easy to convince Brahmins to admit Harijans to Hindu temples. But, after a certain stage in history, it was not possible to continue those practices as a result of evolving social, political, legal and moral progress. We think Knanaya community has reached that stage in history. Our practices and traditions are against societal norms. It is better if we change our practices based on our consensual agreement. But, whether you agree or not, the change is coming. The church has already banned our practice of exclusion in America without checking
our consent. Since that is the case, Knanaya Catholic missions and associations in America are operating against the church rules. They are also operating against legal and statutory rules of this country. This cannot continue forever. Get ready for the funeral of Knanaya practice of exclusion, a relic of the caste system, which defiles this greatcommunity. Even though we oppose exclusionary practices within the Knanaya Catholic Church and associations, we think Knas have a right to operate as a private club with any rules they want. I do not want to be a member of that private club. Alex Kavumpurath jaimon mathew wrote: Dear Jose,The Catholic Church is one. There is no doubt about it. In the same way,India is also one country.But there are diversities. There are even separate personal laws for different religions. A Muslim in India can marry upto four marriages legally,
but I cant do. Am I not Indian? Is not India one country? I am an Indian. But I cant buy property in the state of Jammu & Kashmir? Is not India one country? In the same way though CatholicChurch is one, it is never rigid. It gives a lot of freedom to its faithful.The Church allows us to follow our traditions. Even the second Vatican Council is very clear about it. Do you know there are Rites in the church where the priests can even marry? But the priests in our parishes are not even allowed to go with a girl even for an outing? But are they not in the Catholic Church? Is not the Catholic Church 'ONE, HOLY, UNIVERSAL AND APOSTHOLIC' ?I am a married person. Now I cant become the member of the Jesuit congregation or Salesian Congregation.Not even our own CMI or OSH people will give me an entry. Am I not a Catholic? Are not these congregations, Catholic congregations? The answer is simple. They all have certain certain rules and regulations. You should qualify at
least their basic requirements.In the same way, Arch Diocese of Kottayam has certain rules and regulations. The rule of the diocese was not made by our Bishops, but by a greatsaint, St. Pius X. You said, "association with a racist organization like KCCNA could imperil the chances of our youngsters who have political aspirations. Such association will also count against those considered for high profile positions such as Attorney General, Directors of CIA, FBI, Home Land Security, Federal Judges etc which require senate confirmation". I would advise you to just run away from this Knanaya Community. You can at least make your kids an Attorney General or at least the Director of CIA, FBI....etc. Nobody is forced to stay in the community. Just leave these ignorant Knanaya people alone.With regardsJaimon MathewOn Sat, 28 Jun 2008 jose joseph wrote :>Dear Jaimon,>Comparing a Catholic Organization to a Private Club sounds strange.. 'ONE, HOLY, UNIVERSAL AND
APOSTHOLIC' ARE THE FUNDAMENTAL CHARACTERISTCS OF A CATHOLIC CHURCH. Any organization which uses the word Catholic should bebased on these principles.An organization which intends to practice discrimination may do so by dropping CATHOLIC from its name.>>Jose Kallidikil>>--- On Sat, 6/28/08, jaimon mathew wrote:>> From: jaimon mathew >Subject: Re: [Knanaya Family] Cruelty towards Adopted Children>To: knanay...@googlegroups.com>Cc: "alex esthappan" , knanay...@yahoogroups.com, tanim...@yahoo.com, joelj...@yahoo.com, marm...@yahoo.com, muthol...@yahoo.com, sjpac...@yahoo.com, pres...@ikccny.com, joeth...@yahoo.com, thcy...@yahoo.com, cyria...@yahoo.com, edma...@hotmail.com, dominic...@hotmail.com, josek...@yahoo.com, pious...@optonline.net, spo...@gmail.com, Luk...@aol.com>Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 4:52
AM>>>>>Dear Alex,>>There aremany clubs in my city. I have been not so fortunate to take the memberships of these clubs. If I try to enter any of these clubs, the security at the gate will not allow me to enter their premises as I am not a member. They may even make me to run away from their area.>>Will "Jesus be so happy and reward the club authorities for their humanitarian action"? Well,....I am not sure. But I am sure about one thing. Jesus will definitely be unhappy with me for wasting my precious time. As I knew that the members alone will be entertained, I should not have wasted my time to go there.>Mr. Alex, shall I hope that I have made it clear to you?>>With regards>>Jaimon Mathew>>>>On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 alex esthappan wrote :> >> > I thank KCCNA and its leaders, local association leaders, our bishops and priests for defending Knanaya purity and traditions without any compromise.
Iappreciate your valiant efforts to protect us from “impure” people. The presence of an “impure” person at the convention, even if a child, would be a great disturbance to Knanaya sensitivity. So, it is a great credit to KCCNA and its convention leaders that they prevented it happening by denying registration to a Knanaya family with an adopted child. I am sure Jesus is so happy and will reward our community, our leaders and our bishops with special blessings for this humanitarian action. Keep up the good work!> >> > We could do this convention without this kind of shameful and hurtful action. There is still time to reverse it. The letter below may help you to make the right decision.> >> >> > Alex Kavumpurath> >> >> >> > Jose Kallidikil> > 5050 W. Patterson> > Chicago, Il, 60641> >>> To,> > His Grace Mar
Mathew Moolakattil> > Arch bishop of Kottyam> >> >> > Sub: Cruelty towards Adopted Children> >> >> > Your Grace,> >> > I am sad and deeply disturbed to learn about an inhuman and most narrow attitude adopted by KCCNA towards a Knanaya family with an adopted child. This family from New York, who were unfortunate to have a baby of their own, chose to adopt a child. This girl now 12 years old, was very excited to attend the Knanaya convention in neighboring New Jersey next month. But the KCCNA convention committee rejected their registration on the grounds that the girl was not born of Knanaya parents. Many Knanaya families in the New York area could not comprehend this unchristian outlook of the KCCNA.> >> > ‘Adopt not abort’ is a slogan vigorously promoted by allChristians including the Catholic Church in the United States. The civil laws of the United
States confer an adopted child all the privileges that a naturally born child enjoys. The canon law is very clear in its position regarding the status of an adopted child. Church law mandates us to treat and consider an adopted child as a member of the parish of his or her adopted parents. Fear of discrimination of any sort a child may encounter at the adopted home disqualifies prospective parents from adopting a child in U.S.> >> > Racial consideration or prejudices should not be barriers to advance our faith. Love, affection, understanding and faith are the basis for building strong Christian families. Even a decade after his marriage, a collogue of mine who is an atheist with a devout catholic wife was not blessed with a child. They chose adoption and obtained a child from China after a cumbersome procedure. Afew years later they adopted an abandoned baby found at the Chicago Airport. Even though my
collogue is not a regular church goer, he is proud of the catholic upbringing of his adopted children.> >> >> > Primitive and insane attitude adopted by the KCCNA leadership towards adopted children will one day be exposed and alienate this community from American Christians and mainstream society. Conscious or not, association with a racist organization like KCCNA could imperil the chances of our youngsters who have political aspirations. Such association will also count against those considered for high profile positions such as Attorney General, Directors of CIA, FBI, Home Land Security, Federal Judges etc which require senate confirmation.> >> > The New Jersey convention may be remembered for its record participation. Distinguished personalities from many walks of life may add color to theconvention. Your Grace and other religious heads may decorate the convention with your esteemed presence.
But this convention will have the curse of an innocent girl who had no control over her birth or upbringing in a racist community. When the curse of such hurt innocents heaps, the wrath of God will befall this once pious community. The enemies of the Catholic Church will rejoice over such a tragedy.> >> > As the Arch Bishop of Kottayam Diocese and the spiritual head of Knanayats the world over, God has bestowed you with a solemn mission. Knanayats are yearning for a leader who can liberate us from our prejudices and instill a new vision enabling us to view all God’s creations with dignity and respect. Advocating for the preservation of irreligious, illogical and immoral customs and traditions does not create a positive perception for the Knanaya society and of an Arch- Bishop in the eyes of the church. Leadership is not a privilege for all, but a chance for some to uplift the less fortunate> >> >> >
Thanking you.> > Sincerely yours> >> >> > ( Jose Kallidikil)> >> >> > Copy: (1) Cardinal Mar Vakey Vithayathil Major Arch Bishop,> > Syro Malabar Arch Eparchy, Ernakulam> >> > (2) Mar Jacob Angadiath,> > Bishop St. Thomas Syro Malabar,> > Diocese, Chicago> >> >> >> >>>>>>>
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