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funBart
Dec 18, 2013, 5:27:14 PM12/18/13
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Newbie
- Posts: 1
I might add that it's a little counter-intuitive to have the Master Switch for Destring on the Style tab while all the other controls are on the Material tab. I thought there was a bug in the program or something very obscure preventing "suck / prime" when in fact it was only the master switch being off.
funbart
- Sr. Member
- Posts: 307
Ok, so, as you are not able to use it, I probably have troubles as well.
Personally, I had preferably seen that everybody contributed to a manual then to translations. Even when able to start with KS because of a translation, you are not able to ask questions, when not being able to talk a kind of our foreign English dialects. Like the beautiful Denglish variant I like to out myself with in / over / by. you know my friend. I have good buy for you. you sell woman. how much. hahahaha. come my shop. i cheap
Personally, I had preferably seen that everybody contributed to a manual then to translations. Even when able to start with KS because of a translation, you are not able to ask questions, when not being able to talk a kind of our foreign English dialects. Like the beautiful Denglish variant I like to out myself with in / over / by. you know my friend. I have good buy for you. you sell woman. how much. hahahaha. come my shop. i cheap
Makerbot Replicator 1 dual
Minimalistic Mk8 replacement by Emmett
Sailfish Firmware
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0 Alpha
Minimalistic Mk8 replacement by Emmett
Sailfish Firmware
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0 Alpha
PenskeGuy
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1246
- Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day
There's already a Wiki. Been there for a long time. Nothing in it. Never could figure out how to login to post something.
http://kisslicer.com/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=main
http://kisslicer.com/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=main
funbart
- Sr. Member
- Posts: 307
And me...!
In addition: there are some posts, almost like help files, like this one.
What do you (yes you) say if we make an extra user account, and share the username/password with active users.
By this we are able to make a no-nonsense wiki to copy paste explaining posts into one. Easier to find and with 'some ' editable possibilities for others and not just the poster.
Gives the possibility to change some Denglish into English as well...
And for the wish poll, totally agree with Jonathan.
Do you want it to be the new one user maintained (which gives it a more unofficial feeling, by which Jonathan hasn't to react on each wish).
Or a more official one.
It can be a shared poll/ post as well, as long it's not leading to fights ;-)
About that: this forum is a oasis of peace and constructive, positive discussions when I'm returning from the Makerbot forum....
Bart
In addition: there are some posts, almost like help files, like this one.
What do you (yes you) say if we make an extra user account, and share the username/password with active users.
By this we are able to make a no-nonsense wiki to copy paste explaining posts into one. Easier to find and with 'some ' editable possibilities for others and not just the poster.
Gives the possibility to change some Denglish into English as well...
And for the wish poll, totally agree with Jonathan.
Do you want it to be the new one user maintained (which gives it a more unofficial feeling, by which Jonathan hasn't to react on each wish).
Or a more official one.
It can be a shared poll/ post as well, as long it's not leading to fights ;-)
About that: this forum is a oasis of peace and constructive, positive discussions when I'm returning from the Makerbot forum....
Bart
Makerbot Replicator 1 dual
Minimalistic Mk8 replacement by Emmett
Sailfish Firmware
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0 Alpha
Minimalistic Mk8 replacement by Emmett
Sailfish Firmware
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0 Alpha
m2tts
- Newbie
- Posts: 41
That logic tree explains allot about what's going on with the destring min and trigger. Makes it clear for me. Thanks.
lonesock (Jonathan)
- KISSlicer Developer
- Administrator
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1042
- Alibre -> KISSlicer -> RapMan 3.1
Hey, answering is easy: 42 [8^)
Wishlist: I love that thread...I just read, not post. I would like to propose the following: as soon as the release is out, I would like to lock that thread, and open a new one with the features that are not in the release. Also, there are a few features that are already on my list (multi-material objects, comb-like thing, brim, etc.), so no point voting for them. [8^)
Regarding the destring & wipe stuff, this is a bit complex, as we all know by now. [8^) KISSlicer separates the path generation, path combining, and the path exporting. The path generation is the core slicing activity, but it does not actually make wipe paths or destring G-code...all it does is place a Wipe / Destring marker where it thinks it's needed.
So, during slicing, KISSlicer examines the end of path A and the beginning of path B. If the travel path from Aend to Bbegin crosses over a perimeter Request_Event = true. Then, if the distance of that jump is < "Min Jump" then Request_Event = false. Then, if that same travel length is >= "Trigger", then Request_Event is set to true again. After this logic is done, if Request_Event is true then KISSlicer adds in a Wipe/Destring marker.
Now, when combining all paths (from multiple objects, or multiple copies of the same path) KISSlcier looks for those Wipe/Destring markers. When it finds one, if will perform a wipe or destring depending on the style settings (there is now one checkbox to enable wipe and another to enable destring so Wipe can be combined with firmware that supports auto destring with M101/3 cues), and the material settings will determine the wipe length. The actual wipe paths are generated at this point.
Finally, on exporting the G-code, actual extruder commands are inserted, including any destring retracts or primes requested. The Wipe paths are then just motion without extrusion. After a wipe path (or destring event, if wipe = 0 or disabled) the Z-lift happens. When we get to the start of the next path, the reverse Z-lift will happen if needed, and the destring prime will happen if a retract just happened.
Not sure if that helps or hinders.
Loops and Solid overlap is a setting since it's solid on solid...so doing too much or too little has consequences. For the sparse Infill overlap I just always set it to 100% since there is space in the sparse infill for any extra material to go, and we need a decent bond.
The extruder min and max flow rates have the last word. You can set the min to 0 if there is no actual limit with your extruder. Some firmware has an absolute minimum speed they can allow, often a starting minimum velocity value set as a function of the machine acceleration. Any speed lower than this will either get set to min, or 0, either of which is bad since the head speed / flow rate ratio is violated. But, if you do have a minimum value or maximum value, KISSlicer assumes you really mean it...the extruder will not do what is asked of it if you go above or below those limits. The min layer time is secondary. I suppose I could switch into some kind of "roam around in free space" mode, but that is not implemented.
thanks,
Jonathan
Wishlist: I love that thread...I just read, not post. I would like to propose the following: as soon as the release is out, I would like to lock that thread, and open a new one with the features that are not in the release. Also, there are a few features that are already on my list (multi-material objects, comb-like thing, brim, etc.), so no point voting for them. [8^)
Regarding the destring & wipe stuff, this is a bit complex, as we all know by now. [8^) KISSlicer separates the path generation, path combining, and the path exporting. The path generation is the core slicing activity, but it does not actually make wipe paths or destring G-code...all it does is place a Wipe / Destring marker where it thinks it's needed.
So, during slicing, KISSlicer examines the end of path A and the beginning of path B. If the travel path from Aend to Bbegin crosses over a perimeter Request_Event = true. Then, if the distance of that jump is < "Min Jump" then Request_Event = false. Then, if that same travel length is >= "Trigger", then Request_Event is set to true again. After this logic is done, if Request_Event is true then KISSlicer adds in a Wipe/Destring marker.
Now, when combining all paths (from multiple objects, or multiple copies of the same path) KISSlcier looks for those Wipe/Destring markers. When it finds one, if will perform a wipe or destring depending on the style settings (there is now one checkbox to enable wipe and another to enable destring so Wipe can be combined with firmware that supports auto destring with M101/3 cues), and the material settings will determine the wipe length. The actual wipe paths are generated at this point.
Finally, on exporting the G-code, actual extruder commands are inserted, including any destring retracts or primes requested. The Wipe paths are then just motion without extrusion. After a wipe path (or destring event, if wipe = 0 or disabled) the Z-lift happens. When we get to the start of the next path, the reverse Z-lift will happen if needed, and the destring prime will happen if a retract just happened.
Not sure if that helps or hinders.
Loops and Solid overlap is a setting since it's solid on solid...so doing too much or too little has consequences. For the sparse Infill overlap I just always set it to 100% since there is space in the sparse infill for any extra material to go, and we need a decent bond.
The extruder min and max flow rates have the last word. You can set the min to 0 if there is no actual limit with your extruder. Some firmware has an absolute minimum speed they can allow, often a starting minimum velocity value set as a function of the machine acceleration. Any speed lower than this will either get set to min, or 0, either of which is bad since the head speed / flow rate ratio is violated. But, if you do have a minimum value or maximum value, KISSlicer assumes you really mean it...the extruder will not do what is asked of it if you go above or below those limits. The min layer time is secondary. I suppose I could switch into some kind of "roam around in free space" mode, but that is not implemented.
thanks,
Jonathan
*A2TD : "Added to the ToDo list"
funbart
- Sr. Member
- Posts: 307
Jonathan, you seem to answer some posts, I hope you can give your final verdict about the one in this post.
About the wishes Poll. Shall I close it, do you want to comment it? Or we leave it so.
All fine!
Bart
I thought I understood it, but not anymore after the non-answers and the post pointed at.When using 5D:
- Before a travel: retraction is Suck
- After a travel, befor starting the actual print: extruding a little is Prime
- Before travel going back a little on the allready extruded path is Wipe
- Some firmware versions also do a suck and prime because of M101 and M103 commands. These probably don't have to be mixed with the KS suck and prime.
- Minimum jump is used for the Wipe function. The tooltip is not correct. (destring on 5D has to be removed)
- Trigger is used for the Prime and suck function
- The speed @ destring applies to the extruders (A,B,E) not to the Wipe function (X,Y (settings used at the speed tab and slider) and Z (Z-speed on the speed tab).
When it's different then this, it's unclear to me.
- when the destring on the style tab is checked > go to 2
- before traveling: look at the minimum jump. when the travel is less then the minimum jump > go to 4 when the travel is more then the minimum jump > go to 3
- wipe, backtrack the printed path #mm, unless # = 0 > go to 4
- look at Trigger: when the travel is less then the number in mm for trigger > go to 7, when its more go to 5
- suck #mm > go to 6
- travel to the next print spot and prime #mm
- travel to the next print spot and don't prime
additional: (dis)ables the destring checkbox on the Style tab also Wipe?
Is the Z-lift only looking at the checkbox on the Style tab?
Another not related questions:Bart
- about the Loop/solid infill overlap on the Printer hardware tab: it is only the loops and solid infill. It seems not to do anything with the sparse infill and loops? I actually have more problems (because of speed as well) that the sparse infill not is attaching to the loops. It would logical for me that this setting also has influence on sparse infill IMO.
- about the flow adjust: KS first calculates Gcode using settings as speed, layer height, path width, diameter of filament. Then it looks at the minimum layer time and adjust the print speed if needed. than it looks at the minimum / max flow. when min or max are exceeded, it adjust the speed further more, so going slower when the max flow is exceeded and faster when the flow is less than the minimum flow ? But what if this conflicts with the minimum layer time?
Makerbot Replicator 1 dual
Minimalistic Mk8 replacement by Emmett
Sailfish Firmware
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0 Alpha
Minimalistic Mk8 replacement by Emmett
Sailfish Firmware
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0 Alpha
karabas
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 91
when I set z-lift > 0 I see lack of prime on certain points of landing. I still cannot avoid it. I set JUMP to 0 but it does not help.
It happens f.e. when treveling from perimeter to infil or from infill to ouside support etc
It happens f.e. when treveling from perimeter to infil or from infill to ouside support etc
PenskeGuy
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1246
- Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day
Oh, probably different. (Just kidding) I'm interested in these answers as well.
funbart
- Sr. Member
- Posts: 307
so, is it correct what I understood, or different?
Makerbot Replicator 1 dual
Minimalistic Mk8 replacement by Emmett
Sailfish Firmware
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0 Alpha
Minimalistic Mk8 replacement by Emmett
Sailfish Firmware
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0 Alpha
funbart
- Sr. Member
- Posts: 307
I thought I understood it, but not anymore after the non-answers and the post pointed at.
additional: (dis)ables the destring checkbox on the Style tab also Wipe?
Is the Z-lift only looking at the checkbox on the Style tab?
Another not related questions:
- Before a travel: retraction is Suck
- After a travel, befor starting the actual print: extruding a little is Prime
- Before travel going back a little on the allready extruded path is Wipe
- Some firmware versions also do a suck and prime because of M101 and M103 commands. These probably don't have to be mixed with the KS suck and prime.
- Minimum jump is used for the Wipe function. The tooltip is not correct. (destring on 5D has to be removed)
- Trigger is used for the Prime and suck function
- The speed @ destring applies to the extruders (A,B,E) not to the Wipe function (X,Y (settings used at the speed tab and slider) and Z (Z-speed on the speed tab).
- when the destring on the style tab is checked > go to 2
- before traveling: look at the minimum jump. when the travel is less then the minimum jump > go to 4 when the travel is more then the minimum jump > go to 3
- wipe, backtrack the printed path #mm, unless # = 0 > go to 4
- look at Trigger: when the travel is less then the number in mm for trigger > go to 7, when its more go to 5
- suck #mm > go to 6
- travel to the next print spot and prime #mm
- travel to the next print spot and don't prime
additional: (dis)ables the destring checkbox on the Style tab also Wipe?
Is the Z-lift only looking at the checkbox on the Style tab?
Another not related questions:
- about the Loop/solid infill overlap on the Printer hardware tab: it is only the loops and solid infill. It seems not to do anything with the sparse infill and loops? I actually have more problems (because of speed as well) that the sparse infill not is attaching to the loops. It would logical for me that this setting also has influence on sparse infill IMO.
- about the flow adjust: KS first calculates Gcode using settings as speed, layer height, path width, diameter of filament. Then it looks at the minimum layer time and adjust the print speed if needed. than it looks at the minimum / max flow. when min or max are exceeded, it adjust the speed further more, so going slower when the max flow is exceeded and faster when the flow is less than the minimum flow ? But what if this conflicts with the minimum layer time?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 02:38:38 PM by funbart »
Makerbot Replicator 1 dual
Minimalistic Mk8 replacement by Emmett
Sailfish Firmware
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0 Alpha
Minimalistic Mk8 replacement by Emmett
Sailfish Firmware
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0 Alpha
lonesock (Jonathan)
- KISSlicer Developer
- Administrator
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1042
- Alibre -> KISSlicer -> RapMan 3.1
Here is a post on the destring stuff:
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=358.msg2490#msg2490
I just noticed an annoying "feature" of this forum...using the Search bar only searches in the current sub-forum! I have to hit the [Home] button, then search!
Jonathan
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=358.msg2490#msg2490
I just noticed an annoying "feature" of this forum...using the Search bar only searches in the current sub-forum! I have to hit the [Home] button, then search!
Jonathan
*A2TD : "Added to the ToDo list"
m2tts
- Newbie
- Posts: 41
Yes, the speed is understandable now, but it's the Min Jump and Trigger tool tips that are causing me the confusion, as they seem to say the same thing.
m2tts
- Newbie
- Posts: 41
I'm a little confused about the settings in destring that are for Min Jump and Trigger. The two seem to do the same thing. Do you set minimum jump for have it destring, or not destring. Trigger seems to say destring for #mm to the next extrude. What does setting both to 0 mean? Will that always destring then? What does Speed refer to here? Extruder speed, or x,y, travel speed?
Thanks
Thanks
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