CubeX continued

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Bkjnky

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Dec 27, 2013, 12:41:28 AM12/27/13

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kozlojak
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CUBEX
« on: May 09, 2013, 07:46:40 AM »
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Does any one have settings that work with the CubeX printer?
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Bkjnky

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Dec 27, 2013, 12:41:55 AM12/27/13

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2013, 12:08:26 PM »
Quote
I'm not really sure that any other slicer will work with those. 3D Systems is increasingly closed and proprietary. Before they discontinued the 3D Touch and Rapman printers without notice, and then made the 3D Touch into their CubeX with its expensive proprietary filament canisters, they introduced a new version of their slicer that outputs encrypted print files, so you can't make any alterations or see what they are doing with their print profiles.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 01:39:27 PM by PenskeGuy »
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Bkjnky

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Dec 27, 2013, 12:42:26 AM12/27/13

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kozlojak
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2013, 04:55:22 PM »
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Yea I can not see what they are outputting, but the printer will work with regular g-code(I am told) so I was wondering if someone did the work to figure it all out, If not we will have to try until we get it working. the software for the printer is...not good.
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Bkjnky

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Dec 27, 2013, 12:43:10 AM12/27/13

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2013, 07:29:12 PM »
Quote
Quote from: kozlojak on May 09, 2013, 04:55:22 PM

Yea I can not see what they are outputting, but the printer will work with regular g-code(I am told) so I was wondering if someone did the work to figure it all out, If not we will have to try until we get it working. the software for the printer is...not good.

The 3D Touch on the firmware required to parse their encrypted garbage from Axon3 would read G-code. We raised a stink about it. Probably a contributing reason why they dumped the line. Haven't heard anything about the CubeX and G-code capability but, if it does read it and prints well using it, I'd strongly wager that those days are also numbered. They do a lot of stuff that herds you into where they want you to be. Finally come out with a fix for this problem or that and, gee, you have to flash the firmware to use it. Then the printer doesn't work as well as it did previously and, surprise, you can't roll-back to the earlier firmware. More than a few bricked their machines; flashing the new firmware that wasn't adequately tested prior to release. I never stepped on that land mine. Important job in the studio and just didn't want to take the chance of having the printer down. Then I watched as all the complaints came flying in.

Bkjnky

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Dec 27, 2013, 12:44:04 AM12/27/13

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RobW
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3DTouch dual head

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2013, 10:24:39 AM »
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Where did you hear that it accepts regular g-code?

Assuming that that's true, the next question is how you send files to the printer: Place them on a thumb drive/SD card, send them over a network connection, open them in some special "send to printer" software? Is there some step in the STL->printed object process where you can look at the sliced file and edit/replace it?

Assuming that all of the above is possible, it looks like the Cube X is heavily based on the 3D Touch, so that's the firmware I'd try slicing for. Just make a very simple test object (perhaps even just a few movement commands hand-coded), rename the file with whatever extension the Cube X expects, and try printing it. See what errors you get, if any.
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Bkjnky

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Dec 27, 2013, 12:45:40 AM12/27/13

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kozlojak
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2013, 06:57:03 AM »
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Well, I can open the gcode file and view it on the cube3d software. and when i put it on a USB key the printer will list it but has an error while it is reading the file.
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RobW
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2013, 08:42:36 AM »
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If you can open a regular g-code file in the cube3d software, can you also save it?

As for the printer error, I'd guess it's either a checksum error or a complaint about the format, although it could be an issue with the actual g-code commands. Can you post the exact text of the error?
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kozlojak
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2013, 10:24:31 AM »
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Robw,

While the software can open it, it grays out the build and save icon. as for the error, it just says error reading file.
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Sublime
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2013, 10:37:25 AM »
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Try turning off comments.
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Bkjnky

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Dec 27, 2013, 12:47:16 AM12/27/13

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2013, 02:06:02 PM »
Quote
Quote from: kozlojak on May 14, 2013, 06:57:03 AM

Well, I can open the gcode file and view it on the cube3d software.

Quote from: kozlojak on May 14, 2013, 10:24:31 AM

While the software can open it, it grays out the build and save icon.

Unclear whether you are viewing the code or the model? Sounds more like the latter.

What Sublime suggested about comments is true. BfB printers used to choke on them but I thought that Jonathan fixed that by limiting the line length. Since then, I've never tried it with them turned on.

toranarod
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2013, 03:41:50 AM »
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We are starting to see the CubeX owners emerging into the market place.
I hope we can sort out the CUBEX. As a BFB owner i would like to see theses machine sorted. I will do what ever I can to help engineer a way for the owners over come this locked down system. Even as far as replacing the controller.
good luck.
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throwmeaway
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2013, 05:18:40 PM »
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Here is the information I have on the bfbe files that are generated by its software

here is a example of a decrypted file:
http://pastebin.com/VXH1dhaX

I also have the blowfish key that is used to decrypt it. Not sure if I should post that here
it uses blowfish-compat ECB
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throwmeaway
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2013, 04:31:50 AM »
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after some more testing, it will read the file after it is decrypted and you can change Checksum to NO and it will not complain about that. so if you add this to the header and change the material type as needed( http://pastebin.com/kmJKwJUg ) the printer will print. I don't think time maters and the materiallength is just used to be sure there will be enough left in the cartridge to print the E1 at the end of some of the setting is for extruder 1) I can make a kiss file (with no comments) and it will read and start to print.

^Firmware:V1.03
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:26
^MaterialLengthE1: 3459
^MaterialCodeE1: 215
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lonesock (Jonathan)
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2013, 07:45:24 AM »
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Genius! Good timing, too...I'm trying to collect some good profiles for common machines.

thanks!
Jonathan
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throwmeaway
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2013, 09:13:31 AM »
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I am working out the settings for this printer, but 1 item I can not seem to change is the prime at the beginning of the print, is primes far too much and causes the extruder to skip

This is the bad info:

; begin wipe
M542
; prime extruder
M551 P32000 S900
; end wipe
M543

I need to replace M551 P32000 S900 with M551 P1500 S150

Bkjnky

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Dec 27, 2013, 12:51:49 AM12/27/13

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2013, 09:32:37 PM »
Quote
Skip?

I actually changed mine from P32000 S900 to P57000 S600. This is 600 lower P than what Axon does. The default RPM for this in Axon is 60. 90, IMO, is too fast for a first prime anyway. After this is complete, the firmware continues with a lower RPM prime, then the head leaves the wipe box. It ensures that the extruder is fully ready and I have had better results after making this change in the G-code inserts.

throwmeaway
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2013, 11:58:39 AM »
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Here are the settings I am using right now, I am still fine tuning a few things but it is looking better then the default software for sure. I have also attached the python script for inserting the header and fixing the prime lines(very rough script) I have also noticed that when the job is done some plastic will be left on the end of the head and cause it to hit and break off when you start the next print, so try to clean it off after the print.

script: http://pastebin.com/QtGyNnpt
Settings:

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2013, 12:26:18 PM »
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What KS version are you using? Those screens are really old.

And, not that it matters once you get on a current version, but 43mm/Rev ... not likely, unless they've made a major change in the extruders; which I wouldn't think they would do--they took everything else from the 3D Touch.

I measured 1.0297. Others came in within a few hundredths of that; both by physical measurement and calculations. The value has been hard-coded in later versions. Flow is still adjustable by other means.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 12:37:33 PM by PenskeGuy »

throwmeaway
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2013, 12:52:31 PM »
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wow, not sure where/how I got such an old version. downloaded the new one and will play with it next week.

I assure you that is the correct value, I get very good prints with it. With the cubex software on the printer display the extruder rpm would be 1-5 rpm during a print. I get similar with this setup.

I assume with the new software I can use gain to increase the value? Is the hard coded value multiplied by the gain? and what is the hard coded value?
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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2013, 06:19:54 PM »
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Well, the extruder must have changed. The 3D Touch, that is the essence of A CubeX, uses a threaded rod lead screw and pressure rollers to push the filament against the rotating lead screw. I measured the grooves on a length of filament removed from the extruder and got the value I posted above. After a bit of discussion, the value that is hard-coded was settled on as 1.03 mm of filament travel per revolution. In order to get 43mm (1.7 inches) of filament travel per revolution the lead screw would have to be bigger than the printer, perhaps by a factor of two.

Here's a post on it. The value stated by Jonathan at that time was 1.08 but it may have changed. Not sure why he went that high, because no one measured or calculated more than 1.06, with most coming in around 1.04, as I remember.

http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=338.msg2366#msg2366

throwmeaway
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2013, 05:12:03 AM »
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The cubex uses the same/similar extruder as the cube, the filament comes in the top through the gear and pressure pulley then out the tube(heated) on the bottom

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2013, 07:26:50 AM »
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Well, that would make the difference. No more helix drive. Which, if I know them, also means a shorter time to end of life for 3d Touch parts.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 07:30:23 AM by PenskeGuy »

SyntaxCapt
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2013, 08:35:41 AM »
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Oh hey! Another MOI 3D user!
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toranarod
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2013, 12:58:25 PM »
Quote
Quote from: throwmeaway on May 18, 2013, 05:12:03 AM
The cubex uses the same/similar extruder as the cube, the filament comes in the top through the gear and pressure pulley then out the tube(heated) on the bottom

The 3D Touch extruder.
this was one of the reasons why I still purchased an machine that was being doped by the company.
It had some great hardware and many other things. this is from my spare parts bin.

Can you get past the cartridge locked in system?

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2013, 01:26:19 PM »
Quote
Quote from: SyntaxCapt on May 18, 2013, 08:35:41 AM
Oh hey! Another MOI 3D user!

Did that finally get released? I was on an early testing team. Haven't looked for it in a while. Development stalled and out of sight, out of mind. Did like the way a lot of it worked. Like anything, it had a lot of issues in its early stages.

throwmeaway
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2013, 03:08:52 PM »
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We have not tried yet, but we should be able to get past the cartridges this guy just leaves an empty cartridge in the system and tells it to print anyway http://www.howmuchsnow.com/cube/. I may also be able to leave an empty cartridge in the system and change the header to use 0 material.
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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2013, 04:13:58 PM »
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Well, that's good. I'd hate to run into the white PLA snapping problem and be completely hemmed into their proprietary canisters; with no possibility of adopting a material that performs as it should.

throwmeaway
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Posts: 8

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2013, 07:24:59 AM »
Quote
Settings for the new software:

Use the same settings I posted above for the old software, some of the options have moved but they are there
(turn on expert mode)

and change the printer->extruders->gain to 0.0225
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SyntaxCapt
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2013, 09:10:55 AM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on May 18, 2013, 01:26:19 PM
Quote from: SyntaxCapt on May 18, 2013, 08:35:41 AM
Oh hey! Another MOI 3D user!

Did that finally get released? I was on an early testing team. Haven't looked for it in a while. Development stalled and out of sight, out of mind. Did like the way a lot of it worked. Like anything, it had a lot of issues in its early stages.

Version 2 has been out for a little while now. It does have some annoying bugs I must agree, but 3.0 appears to be on the horizon. For the price I've been enjoying it.
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daetrinx
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2013, 11:07:57 AM »
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Does anyone have a copy of the 1.04 or 1.03 .hex firmware file? My machine was loaded with 1.05 and dont have to option to go back a version.

Bkjnky

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daniel1981

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2013, 01:08:50 AM »
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Hello,

attached you find both - 1.03 and 1.04.
I also have to say, that I get much more better prints with kisslicer.
... will now buy a pro license!

Daniel
cubex_v1.03.hex (605.84 kB - downloaded 74 times.)
cubex_v1.04.hex (607.02 kB - downloaded 87 times.)
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JohnSmith
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2013, 01:54:24 PM »
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I have the misfortune of being a CubeX owner (firmware 1.04) and have been trying to follow the instructions in the previous posts to get the printer to work with KISSlicer, but I get an "Unable to Print File" error when I try to load the .cubex file on the printer.

These are the steps I have gone through so far:

1. Load the STL file in KISSlicer 1.1.0.14 (STL verified in Netfabb)
2. Change KISSlicer settings according to reply #16 by throwmeaway
3. Turned off comments and put in gain of .0225
4. Slice the file and save it
5. Use the python script to change the gcode header and other info
6. Manually modify the header to reflect v 1.04 firmware and a material code of 250 (PLA white)
7. Rename the gcode file with a .cubex extension and put it in the printer - alternately I tried to load the gcode file in the cubex software and it loads without displaying any errors, but does not show any parts or slices on the "table" - neither route was successful

Any suggestions on where I might be going wrong?
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LucasB
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2013, 02:49:00 AM »
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Make sure you have under "Printer" as "Firmware Type" "Bits From Bytes Printers" selected.
When posted/saved - leave the file-ending "*.bfb", just copy it on a usb-stick and select the file on your printer.
KISSlicer works like a charm even with firmware 1.06 here.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 02:55:35 AM by LucasB »
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JohnSmith
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2013, 04:16:01 PM »
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Thanks LucasB (and everyone else). That worked and the print quality is much better than the software that comes with the CubeX.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2013, 01:00:12 AM »
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Thanks for the confirmation (on the SW quality) and, at the same time, not a surprise.

LucasB
Newbie

Posts: 7

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2013, 06:56:21 AM »
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Hello,
I am currently trying to max out speed settings. Can anybody confirm if there is faster printing possible then with the settings posted by throwmeaway (http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.15)?
The cubeX local hardware or software seems to limit to certain top speeds when printing. Help for finding that threshold is greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 02:41:31 AM by LucasB »
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malamber
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2013, 01:30:41 PM »
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Is it me or the picture from the post #16 are no more available?

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2013, 04:41:03 PM »
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It's you.

malamber
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Posts: 2

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2013, 04:49:35 AM »
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It was the settings on my computer!
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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2013, 08:02:43 AM »
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I have been working to get Kisslicer running for the CubeX. I've been through all the messages in this forum. Unfortunately, the screen captures of the configs which were posted were for an earlier version of the slicer. I think I have correlated most of the settings to the current product but it would be VERY helpful if someone could simply post an archive of the config files or simply a new post of the captures of the config screens for the current product.

I'm not being lazy here. I've been working on this for a couple of days, but there are some new settings which do not get addressed in the older software config screens.

Once I get the config working well using a manual edit of the output file, I plan on working up a Windows GUI for post processing which allows material/filament selection and any other items which can be automated. I'll be sure to post that back here once I get to that step. But first, I need to make sure I'm working with a proper baseline config for the CubeX!

Thanks!
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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2013, 12:07:08 PM »
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Here are a copy of my settings files. I think I have applied the CubeX settings for the newer version OK. The prints seem to work well (once the GCODE files have been converted). If anyone sees any settings which can be improved please advise...
Settings.zip (1.82 kB - downloaded 143 times.)
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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2013, 12:23:16 PM »
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...and here is a little Windows Executable (and AutoIT Source Code) to massage the BFB files into the appropriate format for the CubeX.

The program allows selection of the filament material from a List. All settings (and defaults) are stored in an INI file (inc Material Codes). The program (CubeIt) performs the following operations:

- Prepends New CubeX Header (Firmware Version and Default Material Code can be set in the CubeIt INI file)
- Strips Old CubeX Header (Allows Reprocessing files to change Material Code)
- Strips all Comments
- Strips Blank Lines
- Updates any/all "M551" primer commands. Default is "M551 P1500 S150" and can be changed in the INI File.

The program can be run interactively (for interactive File and Material Selection) or run as a post-processor from the command line. If running as a post-processor simply specify the desired input filename as the first command line parameter and the desired materialcode as the second command line parameter. If no MaterialCode is specified (but still a filename) then the default materialcode is pulled from the INI file.

At some point I will enhance this utility to work with multiple extruders...

Please feel free to post any bugs or suggestions...
CubeIt.zip (296.89 kB - downloaded 80 times.)
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scott@BSI
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2013, 10:55:32 AM »
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Wow... I just got this working on a CubeX Duo and can't thank you enough. I'm only an 1/8" into the first build using the KISSlicer - CubeX workflow, but this is the cleanest output I've ever seen from this machine. Thanks Again!
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1looooopy1
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2013, 07:19:14 PM »
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Hello,
How do you select print jet 2 or 3. The build file wants to print on jet 1?
For the material, you can only select "PLA - CubeX". If you use ABS, do you just change the temperature setting higher?
thank you.
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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2013, 06:03:41 AM »
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Jet selection is done in the KISSLICER App. I don't have any ABS settings established but I expect the temps are similar to other generic implementations.

Here is an updated copy of CUBEIT. It will take the KISSLICER output and massage it as appropriate for the CubeX. I have updated the code to reset the primer string (M551 P1500 S150) regardless of which of the three jets you are using (M551..., M552..., M553...). The new key in the INI file is "M55" and you can just place the settings after the key. CubeIt will detect any/all M55X commands and replace the settings accordingly.

There are other nozzle specific G-Codes which are located in the BFB files but KISSLICER deals with them directly. So far, the M55x code appears the only one that needs to be post processed. I may update CUBEIT later on to allow reprocessing of the BFB files to allow quick nozzle swaps without reslicing (i.e. shift all material using nozzle 1 to nozzle 2) if it seems to be of value. (IOW - you sliced your model to use Black PLA on Nozzle 1, but now you want to print with the Red PLA on Nozzle 2...) This would obviously require a Material Code change and a swap of all the nozzle specific codes in the BFB file....

Bkjnky

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If anyone has the blowfish key handy please feel free to send it to me via a PM. I could incorporate it in CUBEIT to generate native files... It certainly would be handy to analyze the native files in any case...

Thanks...

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2013, 10:41:29 AM »
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Never Mind...

;-)
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Mark Ross

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2013, 01:56:42 PM »
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I am running some ABS material right now and will report back my settings. I cannot believe what I am seeing. Who wrote that software for the CubeX? Whoever it is needs to be fired. Night and day difference in the print quality.
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crbrown1
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Re: CUBEX Duo
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2013, 04:54:19 PM »
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I'm new here and this is absolutely fantastic! I am printing on my #1 extruder...how do I get something to print on the #2 extruder? I usually have different materials/colors loaded. It would be FANTASTIC if CubeIt could allow us to change extruder and material/color.

Can someone point out where in the KISSlicer interface I need to look or is it swapping out G-Code?

Thanks,

Charlie

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2013, 05:46:44 AM »
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Swapping Nozzles in your GCode is not a big deal as long as you have the same type of (ABS/PLA) Material (but perhaps a different color). If you change material (ABS/PLA) then you also have to consider temp and flow issues. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here - Kisslicer is the proper tool to do that (change material). CUBEIT is just meant to be a simple post-processor to help KISSLICER to work with the CubeX environment.

A quick comparison of Kisslicer BFB output files shows that the following GCODEs are the only ones that change when only a nozzle is changed (at least in my test model):

Nozzle1 Nozzle2 Nozzle3
-------- -------- ---------
M101 M201 M301
M104... M204... M304
M108... M208... M308
M551... M552... M553
T0 T1 T2

Only the PRO version of KISSLICER "works with multiple extruders". I'm not sure if that means the free version is limited to only printing with nozzle 1 or that it simply won't use more than 1 nozzle in a single print. In any case, if you like KISSLICER you should show your appreciation by purchasing the PRO licenseand supporting the author (regardless of whether you need multiple nozzles or not). My $0.02...

Assuming the above info is correct, I can easily update CUBEIT to swap in a different nozzle for nozzle 1. This would assume that you always print with Nozzle 1 and simply want to change to Nozzle 2 or 3 (for a different color). Material changes (temps, etc), as stated earlier, would beyond the scope of this project...

I'll see if I can work that option up shortly...
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crbrown1

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Posts: 2

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2013, 08:15:27 AM »
Quote
Great info...thanks for your reply. I'm doing a few tests with KISSlicer and will be purchasing it VERY soon.

Thanks,

Charlie
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WarrenE
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Posts: 10

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2013, 11:48:15 AM »
Quote
This work is absolutely fantastic to see. I tried to get KISSlicer to work with Windows 7, but got file access denied errors, so I will try on Windows XP. I have a Cubex Trio that I have been fighting with for over a month now trying to get good quality prints. I got the heated print bed, so that makes a huge difference, but the Cubex software still produces mediocre quality.

One big issue for me is support structures and how Cubex software does a poor job with it. I tried with limited success to print my models in ABS, and used PLA (natural color) for support. PLA eventually dissolves away in hot H2O/NaOH, so there is huge potential here for some intricate parts. If KISSlicer can handle multiple print heads each with different materials in one build, that would bring this machine up near the level of a Stratasys rapid prototyping machine (which we have where I work so it makes for a great comparison). Keep up the great work!

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2013, 11:58:03 AM »
Quote
I have the updates done with CUBEIT to support post-processing changes to swap the selected print nozzle. This assumes you will always be starting with a print set up for nozzle 1 and want to change it over to 2 or 3. Basically, it allows you to change all the nozzle 1 GCODE to Nozzle 2 or 3. If this works well, then maybe I will enhance it to allow to to change any nozzle (1-3) to any other (1-3). First things first. This also assumes you will be using the same type of material in the new nozzle since no attempt is made to adjust temps, etc.

I'm just cleaning up the code now and will post it shortly...

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2013, 12:00:39 PM »
Quote
BTW - I have KISSLICER working quite well with Windows 7 on two of my machines and Windows 8 on the other. If your having an issue with your box running KISSLICER on Win7 its not the O/S itself - its something else...
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WarrenE
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2013, 12:19:36 PM »
Quote
The issue I am having may have something to do with the security settings on Windows 7 since it will not allow KISSlicer to save files. Hopefully I will have that figured out soon.

In regards to changing nozzles, it can also be done by just re-mapping them right on the Cubex machine using one of the menu items. I have done that quite often already when I want to print the same part in a different color.

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2013, 01:39:45 PM »
Quote
Make sure you are saving files to some place other than your programs (Program Files, Program Files(x86)) Folders). Just try saving somewhere else (Like "My Documents"...) If you can save a file there (with NotePad) then there should be no issues. Its not a compatibility thing, I assure you...

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2013, 01:49:20 PM »
Quote
OK, Here's the latest version of CUBIT. It will allow nozzle swaps for any/all of the 3 nozzles. The GCodes used to build the array of swap codes are set up in the INI so if anyone identifies any other codes they are easily added to the INI file (no program changes required).

Note that this version requires a new INI file (attached) with the [NozzleSwapInfo] section included. (The Keys in the [NozzleSwapInfo] can be named anything - however the associated GCodes to swap are listed in Nozzle1,Nozzle2,Nozzle3 order).

Its hot off the press, I did run a couple of sanity checks on it although its not exhaustively tested. Please post additional a note if you find something that needs attention... In any case, the AutoIT source code (*.AU3) is included in the spirit of Open Source (unlike the "Spirit of CubeX")...
CubeIt.zip (306.43 kB - downloaded 30 times.)

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2013, 05:37:23 PM »
Quote
Another update... Found an issue with allowing multiple extruders in my code...

There are (at least) two lines in the CubeX header that refer to extruder usage. For a print using a single extruder (#1), the CubeX print file has two lines similar to the following in their proprietary header:

^MaterialLengthE1: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 209

It appears we can always set the MaterialLength to "1" and the MaterialCode to whatever material we select, However its the "E1" part of the lines that need to be researched. I feel fairly comfortable substituting E2 or E3 in these specifiers if Nozzle 2 or 3 is selected, but the real question is what to do if multiple extruders are used by the print (i.e. Is the order of the lines important). Even if we assume that pairs of specifiers for multiple extruders are simply declared in the header in order, there are still a couple of technical challenges for the code.

1. Since the CUBEIT code allows swaps for any/all of the three nozzles, then the header would have to be written AFTER the file is processed as we don't really know what nozzles are used until after the GCode is processed. It would be easiest to do this by processing the GCode file twice. Once to do any nozzle swaps and detect which nozzles are ultimately used, and then once again to prepend the header.

2. If we want to be able to use all three nozzles then I have to effectively run the material selection GUI three times (once for each nozzle).

3. I need to run some tests using decrypted native CubeX output files to see how they handle specifications for multiple extruders in their header so I can duplicate it.

All the above are doable, but I want to run a few tests first before I bank on the changes. I have reverted the CubeIt logic to expect only Nozzle 1 to be used in the source print file. So for right now, If you plan on running a KISSLICER print file through CubeIt make sure you use Nozzle1 as your output nozzle and preserve the original print file as a source file for reprocessing. So currently, CubeIt will expect to find Nozzle1 commands in your file but will allow you to change them to 2 or 3 if you wish.

Once I get the multi-extruder header stuff sorted out, I'll re-enable the code to work with Multiple Nozzles.

I also cleaned up the format of the INI file so make sure you keep it current as well...
CubeIt.zip (348.72 kB - downloaded 33 times.)
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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2013, 07:48:34 PM »
Quote
Quote from: WarrenE on September 06, 2013, 11:48:15 AM
I tried to get KISSlicer to work with Windows 7, but got file access denied errors, so I will try on Windows XP.

Go to the application Properties > Compatibility tab and select: "Run As Administrator"

In Win8 I don't install anything in /Program Files or /Program Files (x86) if on x64. Problematical from the start, due to these permission errors on saving files. I set an Applications directory on a drive other than the System Drive, especially if it is an SSD, and install everything there in either /Applications or /Applications (x86).

WarrenE
Newbie

Posts: 10

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2013, 08:22:30 PM »
Quote
Thanks so much. I moved it to a new "applications" folder and now it works like a charm. Time to try some printing now. )
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Bkjnky

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evanevery
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Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #60 on: September 07, 2013, 08:48:50 AM »
Quote
OK - Here we go again. I think this should work to meet most folks requirements.

It appears that the native CubeX software enumerates all the employed MaterialLengths in the header before it enumerates the associated MaterialCodes. For example, if your print used multiple extruders (1 and 3), the file header might look something like this:

^Firmware:V1.07
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:1
^MaterialLengthE1: 1
^MaterialLengthE3: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 209
^MaterialCodeE3: 202

This latest release of CUBEIT will take care of this for you. It will read your input file to check which extruders/nozzles are being used. It will then let you swap them for any other Nozzle (1-3) as you wish. This new version of CUBEIT will also let you set and manage (via your CUBEIT.INI file) the materials loaded into your specific nozzles.

So once you specify an input file, CUBEIT will then display its Main Control Window. (CubeIt needs to read your original input file in order to detect which extruders/nozzles are being used). You then can manage the materials loaded into each extruder in the Main Control Window (these will be remembered). The Main Control Window also provides a control set so you can specify extruder/nozzle swaps during processing (this defaults to NO swaps). For obvious reasons, only nozzles actually used in the original input file will be swappable.

The new INI file format has more internal documentation. Although you shouldn't have to manually edit the INI file, its designed to be very flexible should something new come up. Take a look at the INI file if you want to get an idea of what is being done as your as your BFB file is post-processed.

(Win Executable, INI File, and Source Code attached)

Feedback from testing is appreciated!

CubeIt.zip (307.79 kB - downloaded 47 times.)

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #61 on: September 07, 2013, 08:53:02 AM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on September 06, 2013, 07:48:34 PM

In Win8 I don't install anything in /Program Files or /Program Files (x86) if on x64. Problematical from the start, due to these permission errors on saving files. I set an Applications directory on a drive other than the System Drive, especially if it is an SSD, and install everything there in either /Applications or /Applications (x86).

The default install is not a problem in Win8 as long as your account has administrator privs and you have UAC (User Access Control) turned all the way down...

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #62 on: September 07, 2013, 11:45:11 PM »
Quote
[quote author=evanevery link=topic=689.msg6431#msg6431 date=1378572782The default install is not a problem in Win8 as long as your account has administrator privs and you have UAC (User Access Control) turned all the way down...
[/quote]

Which is a Bad Idea; both of them. Common misconception. If you get owned, well... I have it set to Quiet but not off entirely. The UAC may be a bit of a pain if you don't know how to deal with it but, not that I'm a M$ troll or anything, it is designed to address a serious problem that you can blame the malware authors for stuffing in all of our faces.

evanevery
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Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2013, 07:09:19 AM »
Quote
The O/S shouldn't have to be so restrictive. There are better security methods that don't compromise so much functionality. The O/S is supposed to work for USER - not the other way around. I don't want an O/S which refuses to let me install or run a legitimate program.

Spreading your programs and data all over the place just to get around Windows built-in security doesn't make it any safer - just harder to manage. If you really want to be safe - just unplug your box altogether. The ultimate trade of functionality for security!

(I have made some updates to CUBEIT to improve the internal documentation, comments in the INI file, and bit of streamlining for the internal code. So there's a new version ready to be posted. I'll wait a bit before posting it so as not to keep spamming this forum with updates. I'll roll in any other changes we find at that point as well. Probably sometime tomorrow...)

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WarrenE
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2013, 11:53:27 AM »
Quote
Well, I tried the latest Cubit software with the free version of KISSlicer now a number of times, and it works very well, and is very easy! Thanks for the great work. I really like the control I now have for printing and supports. I still need to fine tune some settings for some gears that I am trying to print where the quality is not at the level as the Cubify software, but for other things where support is needed, the results are great. I noticed that after processing the KISSlicer files with Cubit, they can be read by the Cubify software. However, when you view the slices by layer, the Cubify software doesn't see everything. Some layers are blank. When the file is printed, there is no problem.

Now that this problem is on the way to being solved, I wonder how the CUBEX counts the filament as it is printing. If there was a way to stop it from counting, this would allow people to use other filament and not have to worry about changing the firmware back to v1.04.

Because of this work, purchased the upgrade for KISSlicer. Just waiting now for the access code so I can try some multi-extruder printing. Thanks folks for your help.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2013, 01:33:31 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on September 08, 2013, 07:09:19 AM
The O/S shouldn't have to be so restrictive. There are better security methods that don't compromise so much functionality. The O/S is supposed to work for USER - not the other way around. I don't want an O/S which refuses to let me install or run a legitimate program.

Spreading your programs and data all over the place just to get around Windows built-in security doesn't make it any safer - just harder to manage. If you really want to be safe - just unplug your box altogether. The ultimate trade of functionality for security!

Oh, please....

evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #66 on: September 08, 2013, 03:54:30 PM »
Quote
Quote from: WarrenE on September 08, 2013, 11:53:27 AM
Well, I tried the latest Cubit software with the free version of KISSlicer now a number of times, and it works very well, and is very easy! Thanks for the great work.

You're welcome! I'll probably post the latest version of CUBEIT tomorrow. I don't think there is much else to be done. I've streamlined the code a little more, enhanced the comments in the code and the INI. New ideas often come to me at night - so as long as I don't think of something else tonight, I'll post the updated code/exe/ini tomorrow...

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2013, 06:27:43 AM »
Quote
Here Ya go. CUBEIT: Latest EXE, SOURCE Code, and INI...
CubeIt.zip (310.43 kB - downloaded 42 times.)

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2013, 09:11:57 AM »
Quote
Its inevitable...

I got a PM from a member who was asking about KISSLICER integration. I tweaked the code so it integrates completely (3 Nozzle Support) right from within KISSLICER. It runs just the same interactively, but you can now have it process transparently from within Kisslicer using any/all of the three nozzles on your Cubex. (Before I made these last tweaks it would only post-process for Nozzle1).

If you wish to use CUBEIT as a post processor for KISSLICER, simply put the following command in your KISSLICER config pages (Printer -> Firmware -> Post-Process):

CUBEIT.EXE "<FILE>" 209,202,0

- CUBEIT.EXE/INI must be located in your KISSLICER Program Folder (or somewher in your Path)
- "<FILE>" should be specified exactly as shown (including quotes) - KISSLICER will automatically replace <FILE> with your filename
- The last parameter is a list of material codes as installed in your CUBEX Printer (comma delimited)
- "209,202,0" in my example would be PLA Black in Nozzle 1, PLA Red in Nozzle 2, and nothing in Nozzle 3
- If you don't specify the last parameter, CUBEIT will use the material codes set in your INI file
- The kisslicer file (before post processing) will be saved as *.BAK
- There is little point in requesting CUBEIT to do Nozzle Swaps as a post processor so it is not supported in command line mode

Have fun...
CubeIt.zip (310.88 kB - downloaded 105 times.)

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #69 on: September 10, 2013, 01:12:06 PM »
Quote
Hello to the folks over in "Google Groups: CubeX 3D Printing" watching this thread...

Why don't you join us over here? (I'ld join you there except Google Groups exposes personal email addresses to the world...)

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scott@BSI
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Posts: 5

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2013, 07:14:16 AM »
Quote
Ahhh, but I have...

I admit to extolling the virtues of KISSlicer and your work over there. It's taken the performance of my machine from "toy" to "precision tool"

Your last update to CubeIt is really slick and being able to run it inside KISSlicer as a post-process is sweet.

Thanks again...
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BillDempsey
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Posts: 14

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2013, 07:15:35 AM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on September 10, 2013, 01:12:06 PM
Hello to the folks over in "Google Groups: CubeX 3D Printing" watching this thread...

Why don't you join us over here? (I'ld join you there except Google Groups exposes personal email addresses to the world...)

A few of us are already here.

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #72 on: September 11, 2013, 07:20:44 AM »
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I was going to also join the Google Group until I noticed that the private email address of anyone who posts a message is publicly visible. That's unfortunate...

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scott@BSI
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Posts: 5

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #73 on: September 11, 2013, 08:10:17 AM »
Quote
To be honest I didn't know of the Google Groups email issue - until I started receiving email questions from other CubeX owners around the world on integrating w/ KISSlicer... I just refer them back here!

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #74 on: September 11, 2013, 08:51:14 AM »
Quote
At least here you can keep your email address private (and just use PM's for personal messaging)...

But its good to have all the interested parties "in the same room" so to speak. CUBEIT really doesn't do much you can't already do by hand with a little effort, but I'm here if folks find bugs or have enhancement requests...

Its going to be REAL important for everyone to be able to work together if Cubify starts making things even more restrictive in future updates. (I already have a solution ready if they start blocking unencrypted files, but there is little point in letting that go unless it becomes necessary).

Its really a shame that they try to close off such a nice piece of equipment. I'm not sure what they think they are gaining by trying to force you to use their crappy software tools. I think we all agree that the printer is even a more attractive product when using KISSLICER as the slicing engine...

The expensive, unreliable, proprietary filament cartridges are a whole 'nother issue though. Although there are some workarounds using older firmware and empty cartridges, its just a matter of time until a more integrated solution becomes available...

Do they think they would have sold LESS printers without all this nonsense? ..or do they think they are simply going to get rich by selling filament at three times the market value?
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Bkjnky

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #75 on: September 11, 2013, 05:05:11 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on September 11, 2013, 08:51:14 AM

Do they think they would have sold LESS printers without all this nonsense? ..or do they think they are simply going to get rich by selling filament at three times the market value?

The latter. They spin it in all manner of ways to try to deflect this conclusion by laying down a thick smokescreen but that is the only thing that really fits.

bsmith19dot98
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Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #76 on: September 16, 2013, 11:29:11 AM »
Quote
I am trying out Kisslicer for our Cubex Trio. I need to get a little better before I approach my boss about purchasing the pro license.

The vertical surfaces generally look better. However I am having a problem with the first couple of layers. In Photo1.jpg the image on the left was generated with the Cubex software. The part on the right with Kisslicer. The first layers seem to create a flare (not sure what to call it). See Photo2.jpg and Photo3.jpg.

Cubex Trio, Firmware 1.07, PLA, 0.25 layer thickness

Using the settings.ini posted earlier and the latest Cubit.

I have tried different parts and "Fast" and "Precise" modes.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Photo1.jpg (206.03 kB, 1024x870 - viewed 50 times.)

Photo2.jpg (231.21 kB, 1024x1219 - viewed 21 times.)

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #77 on: September 16, 2013, 12:54:37 PM »
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Have you measured/set your Z-Gap?

(BTW - CUBEIT does NOT adjust any geometry or temps - so if your ZGap is good then check your KISSLICER settings...)

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #78 on: September 16, 2013, 01:10:19 PM »
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Squished first layers are usually due to the head being too close to the surface; perhaps combined with a high first layer temperature.

Adjust this in KS with Z-offset in the Printer > Hardware tab. + increases the distance, - decreases. Be careful with - or you can drive the nozzle into the bed. I found the best way to measure the distance is to use a simple small part like a calibration cube and turn Skirt on. Just let the first, second and third layers complete and stop the print. Use micrometers to measure the thickness of the skirt and adjust from there. As you approach the correct setting, you can monitor the edges on the part itself and stop when you get the profile you like. A skirt thickness that is at or just a few thousandths of a mm greater than the printing layer thickness will produce squishless first layers.

It is a very fine setting, especially when going thicker than layer thickness. At one point, the extrusion will no longer reliably stick to the bed. That's when you lower it a bit until it does.

evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #79 on: September 16, 2013, 01:25:28 PM »
Quote
You can use a simple sheet of paper as a feeler gauge to set the ZGap.

Just raise the bed until a single sheet of standard notebook paper starts to grab as you pull it back and forth under the nozzle. Once you get the bed to where you can just start to feel the print head scratching the paper then zero your ZGap...
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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #80 on: September 17, 2013, 12:56:01 PM »
Quote
Wow! Thanks for the replies and suggestions.

I had already leveled the plate and set the Z-gap.

I ran several test prints adjusting temperature and Z offset. However I could not get rid of the apparently squished layers...Until.

I realized that I had changed the "number of loops" (under style) from 1 to 2. This particular test part had a thick enough wall that KS was trying to fill it with a zig-zag. This created a rough wall so I set the loops to 2 which solved the problem.

When I set loops back to 1 the "squished layer" effect went away. I am running another test print now. I will post some pictures at some point comparing KS to Cubex.

Thanks for the help.

Evanevery, thanks for Cubeit.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #81 on: September 19, 2013, 03:56:24 PM »
Quote
That notwithstanding, setting the KS Z-offset by a few thousandths to hundredths of a mm + will eliminate the squish. I print a number of parts with Loops up to 30+ and can eliminate the squish quite easily. That your squish disappears by setting Loops to 1, says that it is a combination of Z-offset and First Layer Temperature.

evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #82 on: September 20, 2013, 06:10:31 AM »
Quote
...just make sure that your bed height (Z-Gap) is properly calibrated BEFORE you start changing any settings in KS. Otherwise you will end up having to compensate for the error in each and every print and will chase it forever.
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cdlrenee
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #83 on: September 20, 2013, 07:44:04 AM »
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Hi all. Just joining after finding this thread on the google groups post.

I downloaded KISSlicer, settings.zip, and the latest CubeIt from this post.

Loaded the STL in KISSlicer, changed the printer to CubeX and the material to CubeX.

Saved the file with KISSlicer, opened it with CubeIt, and saved the output to a USB stick.

The printer is happy and the quality of the print is SO much better! Thank you all for the work you've put into make this a simple work-around for the sub-par quality of the CubeX software.

Using firmware 1.04 and filament from ebay.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #84 on: September 20, 2013, 12:09:19 PM »
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Quote from: evanevery on September 20, 2013, 06:10:31 AM
...just make sure that your bed height (Z-Gap) is properly calibrated BEFORE you start changing any settings in KS. Otherwise you will end up having to compensate for the error in each and every print and will chase it forever.

Well, at least on this hardware, the Z-height adjustment isn't all that fine. I set the nozzle to the bed and then fine tune it in KS with Z-offset. Yes, that setting stays in every print thereafter but I don't chase anything forever. Once the two dimensions are determined, it is a static setting until I either add painter's tape or a glass plate to print on. At that point, I mic the thickness and add it to KS's Z-offset and go.

olule

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Posts: 1

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #85 on: September 21, 2013, 10:32:07 AM »
Quote
Can anyone please tell me what is wrong with my .cube file (please find it attached). It is a pipe. I generated the .bfb with KISSlicer using the settings given by @evanevery. I then used @evanevery CUBEIT code. I then saved the output file's .bfb to .cube. However, when I try to load this file into the cubify software, the software always terminate abruptly. Also, when I try to print it with basic cube 3D printer (Not cubeX) which runs a v1.06 firmware, the printer always display the error message " fail to print file". My catridge, I guess, is ABS neon green.

Thanks in anticipation

PS: you may change the extension of the attached .cube file to .gcode or bfb to view the contents.
hollow cylinder model4.cube (117.58 kB - downloaded 5 times.)
hollow cylinder model.cube (117.57 kB - downloaded 1 times.)
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joestefano
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Posts: 12

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #86 on: September 21, 2013, 10:52:58 AM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on September 09, 2013, 09:11:57 AM

Its inevitable...

I got a PM from a member who was asking about KISSLICER integration. I tweaked the code so it integrates completely (3 Nozzle Support) right from within KISSLICER. It runs just the same interactively, but you can now have it process transparently from within Kisslicer using any/all of the three nozzles on your Cubex. (Before I made these last tweaks it would only post-process for Nozzle1).

If you wish to use CUBEIT as a post processor for KISSLICER, simply put the following command in your KISSLICER config pages (Printer -> Firmware -> Post-Process):

CUBEIT.EXE "<FILE>" 209,202,0

- CUBEIT.EXE/INI must be located in your KISSLICER Program Folder (or somewher in your Path)
- "<FILE>" should be specified exactly as shown (including quotes) - KISSLICER will automatically replace <FILE> with your filename
- The last parameter is a list of material codes as installed in your CUBEX Printer (comma delimited)
- "209,202,0" in my example would be PLA Black in Nozzle 1, PLA Red in Nozzle 2, and nothing in Nozzle 3
- If you don't specify the last parameter, CUBEIT will use the material codes set in your INI file
- The kisslicer file (before post processing) will be saved as *.BAK
- There is little point in requesting CUBEIT to do Nozzle Swaps as a post processor so it is not supported in command line mode

Have fun...

Evanevery, Could you send the whole config page so I could copy/paste it into KS.
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bkjnky
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Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #87 on: September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
First off, thank you evanevery for coming up with Cubeit. I was about to go down the road of buying new electronics and replacing all the guts of this CubeX as it was completely worthless with the CubeX software. I have a couple of questions around the KiSSlicer software. I apologize in advance for how toolish these questions might be, I just haven't quite grasped all the terminology and setting functions.
What does increasing/decreasing flow tweak do and how do I tell which way I need to go?
Is there any advantage or disadvantage to setting material diameter +/- to the measured diameter of the material?
PenskeGuy - If I adjust the Z-lift to eliminate squish, does this effectively change the Z setting across the entire height of the print?
I've attached the CubeX print bed STL. If I change the bed center settings to line up the grid with the print bed STL, will this correctly line up the prints on the bed?
In the Printer>Extruders> tab there is a gain setting. What does this do?
What is Oversample Resolution?
Is the skin thickness setting intended to be the minimum wall thickness of any part of the print?
If I am seeing gaps in the layering (looks to me like not enough material is jetting) what setting should I try to adjust?
Am I understanding Loops correctly as the number of passes the head makes while building a surface?

Thanks

EDIT:thought better of putting the 3dsys stl online...

« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 02:03:34 PM by bkjnky »
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cdlrenee
Newbie

Posts: 3

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #88 on: September 23, 2013, 05:29:21 AM »
Quote
I'm attaching pictures of two printed items side by side. Both printed on the CubeX (1.04) but one was sliced with the CubeX software and the other with KISSlicer.

Both slicers were set to .25 mm layer height. The CubeX print took 7 hours and the KISS print took 7.5 hours. I have no problems with an extra half hour when the quality is this good (please see attached).

**I almost forgot.. If you are using the settings from this thread and printing a big part you might want to adjust the Bed Center X to -35mm in the Printer tab of KISSlicer.

CubeX_Left_KISS_Right.JPG (977.6 kB, 1632x1224 - viewed 92 times.)

CubeX_Left_KISS_Right_2.JPG (1014.82 kB, 1632x1224 - viewed 60 times.)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 05:37:25 AM by cdlrenee »
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bsmith19dot98
Jr. Member

Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #89 on: September 23, 2013, 10:42:15 AM »
Quote
I think I solved the squished first layer problem. I re-leveled the plate, reset the Z-Gap (copier paper), and set a Z-offset in KS. Thanks for everyone's help.

Upgraded to KS Pro!

I found a new part that is giving me problems (see attachment). The part on the left is from KS, on the right is cubex. Can any one point me in the direction of which parameter to work on?

Cubex Trio Firmware 1.07

The white material is PLA, yellow is ABS.
PLA temp = main 215, first layer 250, keep warm 150
Destring = prime 0.05, suck 1, wipe 10, speed 15, min jump 1
Flow adjust = Flow tweak 1.1, Min 0.01, max 10
Speeds for this print = Loops 16, Solid 21, Sparce 33.2

ABS settings same as above except temp= Main 250, first layer 275, keep warm 150

Number of Loops 2, Infill 50% Rounded, Extrusion Width 0.6, layer thickness 0.25

Thanks

Bkjnky

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Author Topic: CUBEX (Read 18478 times)

PenskeGuy
Hero Member

Posts: 1264
Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #90 on: September 23, 2013, 01:42:56 PM »
Quote
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM

I apologize in advance for how toolish these questions might be, I just haven't quite grasped all the terminology and setting functions.

I'll answer this set but it is good to use the forum search, as all of them have been answered. This is basic stuff that we all worked to learn and you'll also find more information on how each of these work by following the threads. Some of these seem a bit trollish... The KS manual is out of date but does have basic stuff that crosses most of the versions. You can also search on "Idiots Guide". That will lead you to a manual of sorts that a lot of us wrote for this student.

Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM

What does increasing/decreasing flow tweak do and how do I tell which way I need to go?

Increasing/decreasing the flow tweak increases/decreases the flow from the computed center point. KS determines how much material to supply by computing that from a number of factors. Different materials act differently. Flow Tweak makes a fine adjustment to the computation to accommodate a particular material's quirks.

Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM

Is there any advantage or disadvantage to setting material diameter +/- to the measured diameter of the material?

It is essential. That is one of the basic values that KS uses to compute the flow rate. Settings are present for a reason.

Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM

If I adjust the Z-lift to eliminate squish, does this effectively change the Z setting across the entire height of the print?

No. Z-lift is the amount that the head raises off the part before making a traverse. Z-offset changes the nozzle to bed distance. You really should look at the tooltips for most of these answers.

Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM

In the Printer>Extruders> tab there is a gain setting. What does this do?

It makes major adjustments in the flow computation. Usually, you just leave it at 1 and use Flow Tweak.

Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM
What is Oversample Resolution?

Looks at finer details of the model and tries to generate paths that will reproduce them. Takes a lot of memory when you get the setting down to very fine levels.

Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM

Is the skin thickness setting intended to be the minimum wall thickness of any part of the print?

Yes. If it isn't satisfied by Loops, Infill makes up the difference.

Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM

If I am seeing gaps in the layering (looks to me like not enough material is jetting) what setting should I try to adjust?

Too complex to go into here. Can be caused by a lot of things; many of which are addressed in this answer. You need to search on "calibration", "cube" and "thin wall" then do a proper calibration or you'll just be going around in circles and asking more questions. Calibration is the first thing you do. Once that is done to set a baseline, then you can begin to figure out what to change to address a certain condition; not before.

Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM

Am I understanding Loops correctly as the number of passes the head makes while building a surface?

Perimeters and Loops are mostly used on side walls; Perimeter being the outer-most Loop. You can make top and bottom surfaces with Loops as well by increasing the number of Loops to the point that their paths fill the top and bottom surface and control the wall thicknesses by the Skin Thickness setting. If the number of Loops is less than that required to completely cover the top/bottom, Solid Infill will fill the remaining portion.

PenskeGuy
Hero Member

Posts: 1264
Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #91 on: September 23, 2013, 01:49:26 PM »
Quote
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on September 23, 2013, 10:42:15 AM

The white material is PLA, yellow is ABS.
PLA temp = main 215, first layer 250, keep warm 150
Destring = prime 0.05, suck 1, wipe 10, speed 15, min jump 1
Flow adjust = Flow tweak 1.1, Min 0.01, max 10
Speeds for this print = Loops 16, Solid 21, Sparce 33.2

ABS settings same as above except temp= Main 250, first layer 275, keep warm 150

Temps, especially first layer, are way too high. Depending upon manufacturer, I run PLA at 195-215 -- keep warm 125, ABS at 225-250 -- keep warm 140.

Did you do a proper calibration to arrive at Flow Tweak?

scott@BSI
Newbie

Posts: 5

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #92 on: September 23, 2013, 01:54:05 PM »
Quote
I'm running cooler temps on my CubeX PLA - 200 main & 230 first layer

Your part looks like it was run a little "hot"

This part was run w/ the 200 main & 230 first layer setting

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #93 on: September 27, 2013, 07:25:30 AM »
Quote
Quote from: olule on September 21, 2013, 10:32:07 AM

My catridge, I guess, is ABS neon green.

I took a quick look at the first file and nothing jumps out at me. You are printing with Extruder #1 and if you DON'T have ABS Neon Green in their then maybe the printer is refusing to process the file...

I did note that the time estimate in the header is "12" instead of "1". I don't know if this matters, but, by default, I believe it should be "1" as set in the default CUBEIT.INI file. Have you edited your INI file and upset something?

Also, I got the material codes from another posting, and if 256 is not actually ABS Neon Green then that could be a problem. If you post a standard cubex output file which DOES work with your ABS Neon Green filament, I'll confirm the material code...

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1looooopy1
Newbie

Posts: 34

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #94 on: October 02, 2013, 08:41:53 AM »
Quote
Thank you evanevery for all the work to get this working on a CubeX. Also thanks to the PenskeGuy for all his input and help in the forum.
I am using the kisslicer pro version and printing with a CubeX.
The kisslicer software is great. Overall so much better than the cubeX software. Specially the supports work so well and are easily removed without leaving hardly any marks.

I am trying to fine tune some parameters because I get some "layer ribbing". (see attached picture)
The layers seem smother on the outside at the beginning where the part is solid at the bottom.
Then when it gets to the hollow part, it seems to show the ribbing more.
The part in the picture is ABS, layer height .125 (I see similar at .25 layer),
Skin thickness 1.2
Extrusion width 0.6
Infill extrusion width 0.5
Loops 2
hollow
Speed 30 / 40 / 30 (slower speed did not seem to make much difference)
Temperature first layer was 275 the 270 for half of the part and then turned down to 250.
Had some other parts printed at 235, but did not seem to make much difference.

Also I am not sure what settings should change between PLA and ABS besides temperature.

Thank you much.

test 1.jpg (1523.94 kB, 2319x1247 - viewed 72 times.)
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PenskeGuy
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Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #95 on: October 02, 2013, 11:04:57 AM »
Quote
A bit difficult to tell from the shot but it looks as if there are some linear gaps in the layers where the part narrows about half way up? Some sections of those layers appear to be properly fused and others are darker, indicating a cavity.

Do the ribs oscillate back and forth laterally or do they grow and shrink?

There is a lot of squish on the first two or three layers. This indicates too high a temperature and/or too close to the bed. 275 really is too high, as is 270. 235 may be too low. It all depends upon the filament manufacturer. Some ABS runs best between 250-260, others can get as low as 225.

From the blobbing on the top surface Infill to Perimeter joints, it seems that a set of calibrations may be in order. There shouldn't be significant bumps there. Remember that flow rate is tied to temperature. If you do a calibration at one temp and set a Flow Tweak to get good dimensions and flat Infill, and then change the temperature, the Flow Tweak will have to be re calibrated for that temp. Feed rate is also tied to temp. If you're printing too fast for a given temp, the extruder will not be able to supply enough to keep up.

1looooopy1
Newbie

Posts: 34

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #96 on: October 02, 2013, 12:24:08 PM »
Quote
The ribs seem to be fairly evenly around the part. There is one ~2mm wide vertical area where it seems smoother. (either start or end of layer?)

I was running the temperature so high, because files created with the cubeX software run that high.
But did not see much change when I lowered the temperature to 250 halfway during the print.

I will try some "thin wall" calibration and "solid cube calibration" tests next. Any other calibration I could / should do?

Thank you much Penske Guy,
very much appreciated.

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evanevery
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Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #97 on: October 02, 2013, 02:04:36 PM »
Quote
How is the vertical movement on your bed? Is it relatively smooth? Do the guides or jacking screw need a little lubricant? ...or might they be gummed up from too much lubricant? ...any scratches on the guides, etc?

I've always run a final Z-Gap setting on the bed to have the bed reset one more time after I "think" I am done with my calibration. The bed settles a little differently if it is running up or down. So when I think I'm done, I rerun the Z-Gap setting with a piece of paper on the bed - if it doesn't grab/scratch the paper the way I want, I adjust it and keep letting it do its thing until it grabs/scratches properly without any further adjustment on my part.

I'm not saying your issue is related to Z-Gap adjustment. However, the process I follow does clearly indicate that there may be sufficient play in the vertical bed mechanism to cause some printing error if the guides and/or jacking screw have too little or too much lubricant...

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PenskeGuy
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Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #98 on: October 02, 2013, 06:38:44 PM »
Quote
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 02, 2013, 12:24:08 PM
The ribs seem to be fairly evenly around the part. There is one ~2mm wide vertical area where it seems smoother. (either start or end of layer?)

This isn't answering my question on whether the layers grow/shrink or oscillate back and forth. If they are like this;
==========================================
========================================
==========================================

it is different from ones that are like this:
==========================================
==========================================
==========================================

Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 02, 2013, 12:24:08 PM
I was running the temperature so high, because files created with the cubeX software run that high.

Well, we all know that the CubeX software leaves a lot to be desired. Are you using their filament?

Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 02, 2013, 12:24:08 PM
I will try some "thin wall" calibration and "solid cube calibration" tests next. Any other calibration I could / should do?

Those are the two best.

1looooopy1
Newbie

Posts: 34

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #99 on: October 03, 2013, 09:00:28 AM »
Quote
evanevery, the vertical movement is smoth, but I will double check by decoupling the spindle nut and checking rails and nut/spindle.

PenskeGuy, sorry I misunderstood your question. It appears the layers grow / shrink.

I am using cubify filament.

I printed the same part with the cubeX printfile, and it came out smother on the side (picture 1) (although the rest was crappy) and on the opposite side of the part (picture 2) it was also smother but showed a little pattern every ~ so many layers.

thank you

picture 1.jpg (1208.25 kB, 2268x1095 - viewed 55 times.)

picture 2.jpg (1130.35 kB, 2171x1096 - viewed 40 times.)
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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #100 on: October 03, 2013, 02:29:45 PM »
Quote
What's interesting is how the two slicers see the model. I'm at a loss at present as to the cause of the reproducible waves that appear in each layer of the CubeX print; creating vertical patterns throughout the print. That's a pretty groaty print.

That the KS slice produces layers that are not the same dimension is puzzling. If the layers were all the same dimension, but offset from each other, this would indicate a hardware issue. That they shrink/grow (I'm assuming all the way around the perimeter) could be a hardware issue but then, if it was, it also should appear in the CubeX print--at least to some degree.

Can you attach the model to a post, so we can look at that and slice it?

1looooopy1
Newbie

Posts: 34

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #101 on: October 04, 2013, 06:44:21 AM »
Quote
Here is the .stl file and also the .bfb file that was printed.

I just printed a different part in PLA and it came out pretty smooth.
So it seems the settings work for PLA but need to be tweaked for ABS.
I will try to do the thin wall and solid cube calibrations.

thank you.
Test part 1.STL (49.98 kB - downloaded 11 times.)
Test part 1_0.125_30-40-40.bfb (697.6 kB - downloaded 10 times.)
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LucasB
Newbie

Posts: 7

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #102 on: October 07, 2013, 05:57:41 AM »
Quote
Hey All!

I manege to get a nice outcome with my ABS settings on the Cubex Due (in terms of cleanness and surface). only problem I still can't handle, is that after running endless tests I keep getting a printed model that is around 0.5mm smaller than it should.

I have tried changing many of the parameters to get a better result, but all for nothing...

Perhaps someone here had the same problem, or just an idea what parameters actually have to do with the size of the model so I can concentrate my test on these.

Thanks a lot folks!

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #103 on: October 07, 2013, 06:13:19 AM »
Quote
Can folks with good ABS prints please post their ABS temps/settings?

I'm also wondering if the issue 1LOOOOOPY1 is seeing could be related to rotational binding of the CubeX cartridge. I have seen similar patterns in some ABS prints and I'm trying to check on that now. I'm wondering if problems with the rotation of the filament spindle can effect the amount of material coming out of the nozzles. It might also stretch the filament a bit which would effectively cause the amount of material entering the nozzle to be a bit low. If the spindle rotates OK most of the way around, and then has an issue for a small part of the rotation, and then frees up again, maybe this could be the cause of the undulation pattern you see in the sides of your model (as the amount of material flowing through the nozzle oscillates similarly).

Its just a guess here, but perhaps changing the cartridge to another color would help diagnose if its a cartridge issue...

We REALLY need to get these (unaffordable, unreliable, unavailable) CubeX cartridges out of the equation (permanently)...

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WarrenE
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Posts: 10

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #104 on: October 07, 2013, 09:19:38 AM »
Quote
I wondered about that as well, but then over the last week or so I've experienced some similar issues with some PLA prints. I was seeing a regular banding pattern on some prints. I resorted to printing a number of simple cubes and cylinders to explore the issue further. I found that the banding pattern would change depending on the layer thickness. The banding would almost disappear when the layer thickness was greater than about .40 mm, and it got really bad when it was around .10 mm. There is a very regular pattern to the banding as well. The G-code is identical for each layer (except for z), so it is not the software that is the issue. I wonder if it may be a combination of a bad linear bearing (one of mine is making slight grinding noises) or if there is a stepper motor issue. If the stepper motor is missing or skipping over a step once in a while, could this compress some of the layers? When I get the chance, I will post some of my pictures. In the meantime, I would suggest trying some different settings for layer thickness.

I also wonder if this problem may also be tied to a relationship between the Z spindle rod and the z height resolution and imperial versus metric measuring systems. If the spindle rod has a certain number of threads per INCH and the Z height is in MILIMETERS, is it possible that the stepper motor stops somewhere between certain resolutions. If the motor has 200 steps between each revolution, and there are 8 threads per inch on the spindle, then each "step" would move the table 0.0159 mm. There should be some resolutions that would be more precise then others if the motor has to stop on one side or the other of a pre-set resolution (eg: 0.127mm, 0.254 mm, 0.381 mm). Maybe I am totally out to lunch here... What is nice about KissSlicer is that you can try any layer height you want.

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Bkjnky

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scott@BSI
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Posts: 5

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #105 on: October 07, 2013, 12:01:24 PM »
Quote
Is the banding you are seeing related to your infill settings?

Before I switched to KISSlicer I had issues with severe witness lines that I could see and feel in the surface of the part. These were directly related to the intersection of the infill and the wall of the part...Really nasty looking.

Since switching I have not had this problem return!!

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1looooopy1
Newbie

Posts: 34

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #106 on: October 07, 2013, 12:15:52 PM »
Quote
Lucas, Yes, please post your kisslicer setting that work for you. (extrusion width, infill extrusion width, ect....)

After running the thin wall calibration I ended up with a flow tweak of 1 (1.1 was the original setting).

evanevery, I am running all my spools outside the cartridge on an external spool holder to avoid the possible binding, but it's a good point to watch out for. I will double check if it is moving smooth. I have tried also different spool, about the same.
The cubify cartridges' filament is ~ 1.68 - 1.7mm diameter. The extruder seems to be sensitive to the filament thickness. I tried an aftermarket filament that measured ~ 1.75 and the extruder started "clicking" and having issues. The extruder mechanism is fixed for a certain diameter. So you have to find an aftermarket filament with the same thickness as the cubify one.

Warren,
Is the CubeX spindle metric? I will try and measure the pitch tonight.

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BillDempsey
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #107 on: October 07, 2013, 01:02:03 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on October 07, 2013, 06:13:19 AM

We REALLY need to get these (unaffordable, unreliable, unavailable) CubeX cartridges out of the equation (permanently)...

Amen and amen!

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #108 on: October 07, 2013, 02:53:39 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on October 07, 2013, 06:13:19 AM
I'm also wondering if the issue 1LOOOOOPY1 is seeing could be related to rotational binding of the CubeX cartridge. I'm wondering if problems with the rotation of the filament spindle can effect the amount of material coming out of the nozzles. It might also stretch the filament a bit which would effectively cause the amount of material entering the nozzle to be a bit low.

If the filament were stretched, it would change the extrusion output but have you tried stretching cold filament?

Quote from: evanevery on October 07, 2013, 06:13:19 AM

If the spindle rotates OK most of the way around, and then has an issue for a small part of the rotation, and then frees up again, maybe this could be the cause of the undulation pattern you see in the sides of your model (as the amount of material flowing through the nozzle oscillates similarly).

That which says to me that this isn't the issue is that KS has one problem (grow/shrink of layers), Cubify has a different problem (waves in the wall), while the hardware hasn't changed between the two operations.

I sliced the part and, while it did have an edge error, the paths looked fine; not exhibiting either of the two problems that show up in the print.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 03:03:14 PM by PenskeGuy »

« Reply #109 on: October 07, 2013, 02:58:11 PM »
Quote
However, I did notice this:

Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 02, 2013, 08:41:53 AM

The part in the picture is ABS, layer height .125 (I see similar at .25 layer),
Skin thickness 1.2
Extrusion width 0.6
Infill extrusion width 0.5
Loops 2
hollow

I'm unsuccessful in searching for the actual nozzle diameter on the CubeX. Not a surprise, knowing BfB. With them, less is more; especially when it comes to supplying information. The nozzle diameter on my 3DT is 0.5mm. This is the value set as Extrusion Width in KS for a 0.25mm Layer Thickness; as suggested in the tooltip. This value is 0.1mm less than that which is specified in Axon for that Layer Thickness, as I get better prints using it. For other Layer Thicknesses the values are:

0.5000 Layer Thickness = 0.65mm Extrusion Width
0.2500 Layer Thickness = 0.50mm Extrusion Width
0.1250 Layer Thickness = 0.40mm Extrusion Width
0.1875 Layer Thickness = 0.45mm Extrusion Width
0.1250 Layer Thickness = 0.40mm Extrusion Width
0.1000 Layer Thickness = 0.38mm Extrusion Width

As the Layer Thickness diminishes, the Extrusion Width DROPS in proportion, so as to maintain a constant thickness to width cross section. This principle is followed in Axon as well. No matter what the CubeX nozzle diameter may be, a 0.6mm Extrusion Width on a 0.125mm Layer Thickness is way too much. You're trying to force far too much material into a smaller space. With a 1.75mm nominal filament diameter, as opposed to the 3mm on the 3DT using the widths above, that's a lot of pressure trying to squeeze that wide in so thin a space. With a Flow Tweak of 1.1, the issue is aggravated.

Try the Extrusion Widths above, perform another set of calibrations using them, and see how it goes with the print.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 03:19:26 PM by PenskeGuy »

« Reply #110 on: October 07, 2013, 08:47:32 PM »
Quote
Thank you PenskeGuy, really appreciate you always taking the time to help and also explain.

The cubeX print nozzle is 0.5mm.
I will try to print again with 0.25 layer, 0.5 extrusion width and flow tweak of 1.
Stupid questions:
On a 2 loop (or more loops) setting, is the inner loop printed with Extrusion width or Infill extrusion width?
Can Skin thickness or Infill extrusion width affect outer layer quality? I assume it should not if flow tweak was calibrated?

Bill D, have you tried printing a .bfb file with no cartridge installed, but filament loaded on side spool?

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WarrenE
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #111 on: October 07, 2013, 09:04:04 PM »
Quote
Tonight I tried a number of things, and one that got rid of the majority of ridges was to change the Min Layer from 20 to 5 (found under the fan/cool settings). This allowed the extruder motor to turn faster since the layer speed is not slowed down. Attached is a picture of a 30 mm disk printed on the left with #5 and right with #20.

The extruder motor hardly turns at all even at a relatively fast extrusion rate, so perhaps there is a minimum threshold where it is no longer very well controlled.

IMG_00000970_edit.jpg (303.75 kB, 2210x956 - viewed 55 times.)

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #112 on: October 08, 2013, 01:01:33 AM »
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Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 07, 2013, 08:47:32 PM
On a 2 loop (or more loops) setting, is the inner loop printed with Extrusion width or Infill extrusion width?

Extrusion Width applies to all paths that are not Sparse Infill.

Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 07, 2013, 08:47:32 PM
Can Skin thickness or Infill extrusion width affect outer layer quality? I assume it should not if flow tweak was calibrated?

Yes, as can Loop / Solid Infill Overlap. In a solid cube calibration, where you determine the Solid Infill attachment to the Perimeter, if the overlap is too great for the specified Infill Extrusion Width, the Perimeter can become distorted. I have been wondering if this is the cause of the Cubify waviness, but you said that the setting was hollow.

« Reply #113 on: October 09, 2013, 08:27:50 AM »
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I am trying to understand and learn the setting and effects, looking at sliced parts with different settings, but still need help.

What determines the loop 1 and loop 2 overlap?
If for example my Extrusion Width is set to 0.6, with 2 Loops, would that determine a minimum skin thickness?
What if skin thickness would be set to 0.8 with Extrusion Width of 0.6, 2 loops?

Regarding Infill Extrusion width, it only applies to Sparse Infill / Stacked sparse infill? (Green and Dark green path color key)? So in a hollow part, everything prints with Extrusion Width?

Is the Gain setting in the Printer/Extruder tab setting the baseline factor for the extrusion speed? And you use flow tweak then to fine tune?

thank you

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #114 on: October 09, 2013, 12:07:25 PM »
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Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 09, 2013, 08:27:50 AM
What determines the loop 1 and loop 2 overlap?
If for example my Extrusion Width is set to 0.6, with 2 Loops, would that determine a minimum skin thickness?
What if skin thickness would be set to 0.8 with Extrusion Width of 0.6, 2 loops?

Loops make up the minimum wall thickness based upon Extrusion Width. The Skin Thickness setting adds to that only if it is greater than the sum of the number of Loops*Extrusion Width. It does this by generating Infill that satisfies the overall thickness setting not covered by Loops. If Skin Thickness is less than number of Loops*Extrusion Width, it does nothing except influence the top/bottom handled by Solid Infill.

Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 09, 2013, 08:27:50 AM
Regarding Infill Extrusion width, it only applies to Sparse Infill / Stacked sparse infill? (Green and Dark green path color key)? So in a hollow part, everything prints with Extrusion Width?

In a hollow part, everything prints with Loops so, yes. The UI and Tooltips need some updating, still, in order to be less ambiguous; especially having two types of Infill. Extrusion Width applies to everything except Sparse Infill.

Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 09, 2013, 08:27:50 AM
Is the Gain setting in the Printer/Extruder tab setting the baseline factor for the extrusion speed? And you use flow tweak then to fine tune?

Yes. Gain is a gross setting used only in extreme instances. It alters the mm/rev factor that is hardcoded. Usually, you just leave it alone. Flow Tweak is more than you'll need to adjust the output volume.

joestefano
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #115 on: October 09, 2013, 04:01:55 PM »
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Quote from: PenskeGuy on May 16, 2013, 09:32:37 PM

Skip?

I actually changed mine from P32000 S900 to P57000 S600. This is 600 lower P than what Axon does. The default RPM for this in Axon is 60. 90, IMO, is too fast for a first prime anyway. After this is complete, the firmware continues with a lower RPM prime, then the head leaves the wipe box. It ensures that the extruder is fully ready and I have had better results after making this change in the G-code inserts.

PenskeGuy,
where did you make this change to the Prime code? Has anything changed since you posted this?

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #116 on: October 10, 2013, 12:02:00 AM »
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In the Select Extruder G-code tab. I dropped back from the P57000 to P42000, as there seemed no use for the extra amount of purge.

« Reply #117 on: October 11, 2013, 12:30:17 PM »
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The test cube that I am using is 15x15x15. Printing with cubify white ABS.
(so far printed 15 with different settings, and did not always print the cube to full height).

When doing the thin wall calibration, I come up with a 1.0 flow tweak.
When printing the cube at 0.25 layer, vase, with 2 loops, 1.0 skin thickness, 0.5 extrusion width, 15mm/s speed and 1.0 flow tweak, the results are:
wall thickness is between 1.0 and 1.05, but there are gaps in the extrusion (picture 1). The gaps get worse with flow tweak 0.95.
When I up the flow tweak to 1.1, the gaps go away, but the wall thickness goes up to between 1.06 to 1.13.
The gaps also go away if I slow down to 10mm/s speed from 15mm/s.

Is there any other tweak to do?

The cube outside dimensions don't seem to change with the changing Flow tweak values between 0.95 and 1.1. The cube outside measures between 14.9mm and 15mm.

Seems like that the first wall thickness (the wall where the layer starts) is always a little thinner (by ~ 0.05mm) than the other 3 walls.
The outside dimension of the cube measures the same.

Overall I don't care so much about dimensional accuracy, but would like to get rid of the ribbing.
So far the best results for ABS at a 0.25 layer have been:
Skin thickness 1.0, 2 Loops, Extrusion width 0.5, Infill extrusion width 0.5, 1.1 Flow tweak, but still get some ribbing that I don't see when printing the same part with a cubeX slicer file. Overall the cubeX slicer part come out crapier, but I don't see the ribbing much. (picture 2). There is a section that printed very smooth in the kisslicer part (shoulder height area where it looks burnt).
I think it comes down to tweaking the parameters in kisslicer. Just not sure what else to tweak or try?

Also have to revisit printing with PLA, because I have one model that printed very smooth in PLA.

Thank you.

Bkjnky

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #118 on: October 11, 2013, 02:06:35 PM »
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Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 12:30:17 PM

When doing the thin wall calibration, I come up with a 1.0 flow tweak.

How can you get an accurate measurement if the walls are ribbed?
What Flow Tweak setting do you arrive at with a solid cube?

Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 12:30:17 PM

When printing the cube at 0.25 layer, vase, with 2 loops, 1.0 skin thickness, 0.5 extrusion width, 15mm/s speed and 1.0 flow tweak, the results are:
wall thickness is between 1.0 and 1.05, but there are gaps in the extrusion (picture 1). The gaps get worse with flow tweak 0.95.
When I up the flow tweak to 1.1, the gaps go away, but the wall thickness goes up to between 1.06 to 1.13.
The gaps also go away if I slow down to 10mm/s speed from 15mm/s.

This would indicate that the flow/temp ratio is off. IOW, too low a temperature for the amount of material being asked to push through a tiny hole in a given period of time. There is a relationship between flow rate, feed rate and temperature. The faster you want to go, the thinner the liquid needs to be. If the viscosity is too high, the drive mechanism cannot keep up. There is a finite limit to speed.

Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 12:30:17 PM

Seems like that the first wall thickness (the wall where the layer starts) is always a little thinner (by ~ 0.05mm) than the other 3 walls.
The outside dimension of the cube measures the same.

This could be due to too much retraction. The extruder is starving and catches up as the layer progresses and the extruder reaches full pressure.

What is interesting to me in the bust model is the regularity of the ribbing. Can't see on the cubes very well, they're out of focus. Trying to come up with some sort of logic that would cause a cyclic pattern like this. Even though you get different results with Cubify, it still seems that there is a hardware issue. Perhaps it is a compatibility between hardware and slicer that is being uncovered. Wouldn't be a surprise, knowing 3D Systems.

Are there any clicking sounds produced while printing? I'm unfamiliar with the adjustments on the extruder drives, as differing from a 3DT. There is a heavy spring under a cap screw that presses the filament against the drive lead screw on a 3DT. I'm assuming that similar is on the redesigned drive. Might try adjusting the pressure if that is the case. If, as in the above analysis, the temp is too low for the flow requirement a higher pressure may help, as it will provide a more positive drive forward.

I would try settling on a set of settings (heh, that's funny) like the above where you got a good calibration, and then change the temperature in 5 degree increments and note any and all differences in output.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 02:08:39 PM by PenskeGuy »

BillDempsey
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #119 on: October 11, 2013, 02:31:47 PM »
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Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 07, 2013, 08:47:32 PM

Bill D, have you tried printing a .bfb file with no cartridge installed, but filament loaded on side spool?

No, I haven't tried that.

I suspect the main board would still check the cartridge slots regardless of what type of g-code file it's printing. In other words, there is nothing in the g-code file which tells the printer to check the cartridge status. That happens either way.

I decided to pit the latest version of the CubeX slicer (a few days old) against KISSlicer on a really small part. That square is marked in millimeters. The print on top is from CubeX. The one on the bottom is from KISSlicer. Both have a bit of trouble solid filling such a tiny part, but obviously CubeX is a lot worse on accuracy.

photo 3.JPG (221.57 kB, 792x761 - viewed 48 times.)

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #120 on: October 11, 2013, 02:36:40 PM »
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What is the Crowning set to?

1looooopy1
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #121 on: October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM »
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After I did the thin wall calibration, I checked the solid cube and it looked good.
What would you do if the thin wall calibration gives you one flow rate value and the solid cube a different?

During printing the 15x15x15 cube, I changed once the temperature half way up the print from 260 to 235, but did not see difference in the print outcome or change in ribbing.

There was no clicking from the extruder, but I heard that before when manually going too low in temperature or too high in extrusion speed.
The CubeX extruder drive is fixed in gap for a very specific filament diameter 1.68 - 1.70mm. That's I think why only some aftermarket filaments work. (Tonight I can post some pictures from somebody who took the drive apart).

To reduce the retraction, is that done by lowering the "suck" value?

Thank you again for helping.
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« Reply #122 on: October 11, 2013, 06:25:19 PM »
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Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM
After I did the thin wall calibration, I checked the solid cube and it looked good.
What would you do if the thin wall calibration gives you one flow rate value and the solid cube a different?

Well, you'd make a determination as to which is more important to you. When you did the solid calibration, did you follow this guideline:

Enter the exact filament stock diameter in a few places and at differing angles around the cylinder. Average the measurements. It often isn't exactly 3mm or 1.75mm, as the case may be. This parameter makes quite a difference, as KS computes the required extrusion volume based in part upon this. Even cheap calipers are very helpful for this step.
Set the Flow Tweak to 1.0
Set the Solid infill / Loops overlap to 0.5
Print a nice test piece (something like a squat rectangle is good, maybe 15x15x5mm) using solid infill.
Based on the interior of the part (not near the loops), adjust the flow tweak parameter to taste. There should be no "doming", no "ridging", no gaps between paths. Essentially as smooth a surface as can be realized.
Based on the solid/loops interface, adjust the overlap parameter to taste. No "lumping" or "bulging" of the Perimeter at the intersection. As small a gap between "turns" as is possible.

Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM
During printing the 15x15x15 cube, I changed once the temperature half way up the print from 260 to 235, but did not see difference in the print outcome or change in ribbing.

There may not have been sufficient time for the extrusion to reach a stable temperature. A 15mm x 5mm cube isn't very large. Eliminate all extraneous variables if you are going to uncover a cause. Even the initial phase in starting a print will have temperature variances. Print an entire cube at a given temperature, evaluate, then adjust and print again.

Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM
There was no clicking from the extruder, but I heard that before when manually going too low in temperature or too high in extrusion speed.

That would be consistent to what I mentioned about extrusion pressure.

Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM
The CubeX extruder drive is fixed in gap for a very specific filament diameter 1.68 - 1.70mm. That's I think why only some aftermarket filaments work. (Tonight I can post some pictures from somebody who took the drive apart).

That is a bad design and needs to be worked around. No one's filament is accurate enough to set a fixed drive engagement. Idiots.

Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM
To reduce the retraction, is that done by lowering the "suck" value?

Yes. What are they at now? Usually, the Prime and Suck values are the same and a good starting point is 0.75mm.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 06:27:45 PM by PenskeGuy »

1looooopy1
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #123 on: October 11, 2013, 06:49:54 PM »
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Makes sense, thank you.
I will re-run the solid cube calibration.
I will also re-run the whole cube with different temperature.
Attached is a screen shot for the prime and suck settings.
Also attached is a pdf file, some other user created, with detailed pictures of the inners of the cubeX extruder assembly. Very interesting - but stupid.

thank you

setting 1.jpg (194.17 kB, 754x346 - viewed 70 times.)
CubeX extruder.pdf (755.11 kB - downloaded 36 times.)
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BillDempsey
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #124 on: October 11, 2013, 07:55:29 PM »
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Quick update comparison. I already printed the small part using KISSlicer and Cubex slicer on the CubeX printer. On a whim, I used Cura on my Ultimaker to slice and print the same small part. The three are shown below. Left to right, it's Cura/Ultimaker, KISSlicer/CubeX, Cubex/CubeX. There is obviously something more I can do with KISSlicer settings to improve the quality.

Compare 3.JPG (436.94 kB, 1282x979 - viewed 72 times.)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 08:03:24 PM by BillDempsey »
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #125 on: October 11, 2013, 08:45:39 PM »
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Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 06:49:54 PM
Attached is a screen shot for the prime and suck settings.

OK. There's one big problem. 0.05mm Prime is essentially no Prime; especially after a full 1mm Suck. Set both Prime and Suck to 0.75mm. Your layer starts should improve significantly.

I'll check out the PDF. Thanks.

PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #126 on: October 11, 2013, 08:50:54 PM »
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Quote from: BillDempsey on October 11, 2013, 07:55:29 PM
The three are shown below. Left to right, it's Cura/Ultimaker, KISSlicer/CubeX, Cubex/CubeX. There is obviously something more I can do with KISSlicer settings to improve the quality.

Again, what is Crowning set to in KS? Crowning will fill in the small gaps between the Loops and also the small voids.

Next, lower the Oversample resolution to have KS see smaller details. The lower you go, the more memory is required and the slice takes more time, because it is evaluating smaller features and generating shorter paths.

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #127 on: October 11, 2013, 09:43:52 PM »
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OK. Looked through the PDF of the disassembled extruder drive and hot end. If those optical encoders are meant to control the extruder filament drive speed, I think we may have found the reason for the ribbing. From the motion control projects we've worked on, the resolution of those light/dark segments is nowhere near fine enough to produce a smooth advancement. Could very well be that the CubeX firmware does some fancy footwork in interpolation to smooth the steps out.

That said, there seems to be other CubeX users here who do not have the ribbing issue. Color me at least partially confused.

Assuming you have two extruders or more, does the ribbing happen when printing with them? I'm wondering if there is an issue with the encoders in that one extruder. Swapping out whatever you can, many times leads to a cause.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 12:27:17 PM by PenskeGuy »

« Reply #128 on: October 12, 2013, 04:49:58 AM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 11, 2013, 08:50:54 PM
Quote from: BillDempsey on October 11, 2013, 07:55:29 PM
The three are shown below. Left to right, it's Cura/Ultimaker, KISSlicer/CubeX, Cubex/CubeX. There is obviously something more I can do with KISSlicer settings to improve the quality.

Again, what is Crowning set to in KS? Crowning will fill in the small gaps between the Loops and also the small voids.

Next, lower the Oversample resolution to have KS see smaller details. The lower you go, the more memory is required and the slice takes more time, because it is evaluating smaller features and generating shorter paths.

Thanks Penske. Sorry I didn't answer earlier, but somehow I didn't realize you were talking to me. LOL

Crowning is set to 1. Oversample is currently at 0.125

Suggestions for new values? I have 12GB of RAM and I'm running 64bit, so I should be ok on memory.

EDIT:
I just tried to change the values and realized they are greyed out. I'm guessing I need the pro license to set those?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 05:17:24 AM by BillDempsey »
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #129 on: October 12, 2013, 03:54:19 PM »
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Quote from: BillDempsey on October 12, 2013, 04:49:58 AM
Thanks Penske. Sorry I didn't answer earlier, but somehow I didn't realize you were talking to me. LOL

Yeah, I looked and saw that I hadn't quoted. My post was directly under yours, so thought it redundant.

Quote from: BillDempsey on October 12, 2013, 04:49:58 AM
Crowning is set to 1. Oversample is currently at 0.125

Suggestions for new values? I have 12GB of RAM and I'm running 64bit, so I should be ok on memory.

EDIT:
I just tried to change the values and realized they are greyed out. I'm guessing I need the pro license to set those?

That is true.

On my 64-bit and 32-bit I usually set Crowning to 0 or sub-mm. unless there are some Crowning paths being generated that are unnecessary or problematical. I check them in the Paths view and adjust. Sometimes, setting the value to non-zero alters the Loop or Infill paths to a more beneficial pattern.

For Oversample, on the 32-bit box, I can't go below 0.06 or it'll throw a Runtime error and quit. On the 64-bit box, I can go down past 0.001, which is far below the printer resolution. Get the Pro license (the answer is always "42") and set the OS to 0.03 and see how the paths look then.

1looooopy1
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #130 on: October 13, 2013, 04:42:57 PM »
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Any CubeX users that can share their successful settings for PLA and ABS?

thank you.
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #131 on: October 14, 2013, 07:16:54 AM »
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Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 12, 2013, 03:54:19 PM

...(the answer is always "42")...

Love the Hitchhiker reference.

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1looooopy1
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #132 on: October 14, 2013, 08:23:06 AM »
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Problem found. - No more layer pattern or ribbing (at least on the test cubes).
After printing test cubes all weekend with different settings PLA and ABS on either jets and still always seeing some kind of pattern or ribbing of the layers, I thought there must be something else going on. I turned the heated bed off after the first few layers and the pattern or ribbing disappeared.
When I check the z-gap and watch the gap between the bed and the print tip. I can actually see the gap increase and decrease when I hear the heater relay turn on and off to keep it at the set temperature. You can see it especially when you are just heating the bed up or at higher set temperature. That slight variation makes quite a difference.
In the attached picture, the cube on the left is with heated bed off. I printed the exact same file for both prints. Both are 0.25 layer. (The bottom layer is a little smushed because of tight z-gap and high 1st layer temp etc..)
I have not noticed it so much with CubeX slicer files because I dumps a lot more material down than kisslicer files. That extra material causes other problems on the CubeX models but smoothens the layers.
I think Kisslicer uses the three big cooling fans more, that blow on the print platform and cool the platform, so the heater needs to kick in more, and depending on if or when or how frequent the fans come on, can explain the layer ribbing pattern change.
So Kisslicer works great and my hardware is ok, just got to work out the heat bed issue.

Was getting frustrated till I finally found the issue, but like PenskeGuy says: "Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day".

PenskeGuy, sorry for the wild goose chase.
- I checked out your blog and bio, quite impressive and awesome.

thank you for all the help

I will fine tweak the settings a little and do a few more test prints and then post my Kisslicer settings that seem to work great with the CubeX.

test cube.JPG (742.67 kB, 1498x746 - viewed 48 times.)
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #133 on: October 14, 2013, 08:31:16 PM »
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Glad you found it. Sure felt like a hardware issue to me; right from the start. Yes, any variance of bed to nozzle distance, however small, will change the available space for the extrusion to flow into. You're only dealing with thousandths of an inch. Question is, what in the world would cause the bed to oscillate when the heater energizes? Magnetic? Could be. Only thing that makes sense right off.

You can control the fans on/off and speed percentage. On my 3DT, I have to turn off "Can Do PWM" to get speeds less than 100%.

champ1981

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #134 on: October 16, 2013, 05:32:34 AM »
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Hi All,

Can someone please explain the use of the Prime and Suck functions and what settings i should be using?
If i set these to both be 0.75, as suggested in one of the posts, i get a very large deposit at the start of the first layer, which really messes the print up.

I am new to the KISSlicer software and so not really sure if my settings are correct. Really just trial and error from reading through the posts in this forum. If someone with a set of settings for a Cubex Duo could PM me them as good starting point, I would be grateful.

As things stand, I really struggle with getting a clean first layer, which i believe is down to the prime/suck values, but I'm really unsure.

Also, can anyone recommend a good set of calibration parts which can be used to checking my settings and system setup.

Any help much appreciated.

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #135 on: October 16, 2013, 01:06:54 PM »
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Quote from: champ1981 on October 16, 2013, 05:32:34 AM

As things stand, I really struggle with getting a clean first layer, which i believe is down to the prime/suck values, but I'm really unsure.

Best to use a Skirt. It will lay down a path separated from the part all the way around it and get the nozzle all happy before starting the part itself. When printing raftless on glass, it is extremely useful for refining bed level and Z-offset, as you can mic the one layer thickness and adjust very accurately.

That said, it could be that your temp is too high and you're getting ooze on the way to the part. Prime/Suck really need to be adjusted from observing the overall part quality; not just the first layer. That is another issue and the cause will be found elsewhere.

Quote from: champ1981 on October 16, 2013, 05:32:34 AM

Also, can anyone recommend a good set of calibration parts which can be used to checking my settings and system setup.

Farther up in this thread: http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6763#msg6763

Get your materials calibrated and things may make more sense. Yes, you have to calibrate each material at each temperature, at each feed rate if you want consistency. Everything influences everything else. Slight variations can be lumped together, to some degree, but any significant variation needs its own calibration.

jms
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #136 on: October 16, 2013, 07:23:07 PM »
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Yeah a skirt, or use the prime pillar. I had the same issue when switching to KISS (without messing with the prime/suck settings).

Penske: I must be blind, where is the Oversample setting in the KISS interface. I swear I have been through every dusty corner...

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« Reply #137 on: October 16, 2013, 08:56:23 PM »
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Misc. tab.

jms
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #138 on: October 17, 2013, 05:29:21 AM »
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Ah on the computer I was working on I hadn't registered my Pro key so it was greyed out. Thanks a bunch.

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1looooopy1
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #139 on: October 17, 2013, 08:17:03 AM »
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What is the best remedy against splits in the part? See attached.
Part is ABS printed at 240deg, with printbed at 100deg.
The part come out great otherwise.

part split.jpg (1095.8 kB, 3264x1952 - viewed 67 times.)

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« Reply #140 on: October 17, 2013, 12:47:02 PM »
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More information. How fast are you feeding? Fans on? Print envelope shielded from drafts? How many Loops? Infill? What percent?

I'd say either slow down or raise the temp 5 deg.

« Reply #141 on: October 17, 2013, 01:47:30 PM »
Quote
Quote from: champ1981 on October 16, 2013, 05:32:34 AM

As things stand, I really struggle with getting a clean first layer, which i believe is down to the prime/suck values, but I'm really unsure.

champ1981, What I found, Kisslicer starts the first layer at a lower z-height than CubeX files. So you can add a "Z Offset" in the Kisslicer menu (In the Printer / Hardware tab of the Kisslicer software).
See attached pictures. When I looked at the displayed z-value during the first layer print, the Kisslicer was at 0.25 and with CubeX file it was at 0.50. (printing with 0.25 layer height).

screen1.JPG (378.06 kB, 996x664 - viewed 27 times.)

screen2.JPG (434.41 kB, 996x664 - viewed 36 times.)

Kisslicer screen shot 1.jpg (153.61 kB, 728x287 - viewed 28 times.)
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1looooopy1
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #142 on: October 17, 2013, 02:03:02 PM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 17, 2013, 12:47:02 PM
More information. How fast are you feeding? Fans on? Print envelope shielded from drafts? How many Loops? Infill? What percent?

ABS, 0.25 layer, hollow, 2Loops, 0.8 thickness, 0.5 Extrusion width, 0.5 infill extrusion width, 1.1 Flow tweak, Speeds: 15-25-30, 240deg print temp. Fans off.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #143 on: October 17, 2013, 03:12:45 PM »
Quote
Other than the temp, depending upon who the manufacturer is, that all looks OK. Didn't say if you've enclosed the print envelope. That helps things a lot. I have an R20 reflector flood aimed into the cavity and the sides and front almost completely blocked with removable foamcore panels. Keeps everything nice and steady in there, with low humidity and elevated temperature & PLA stays dry.

« Reply #144 on: October 17, 2013, 04:23:32 PM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 17, 2013, 03:12:45 PM
Other than the temp, depending upon who the manufacturer is, that all looks OK. Didn't say if you've enclosed the print envelope. That helps things a lot. I have an R20 reflector flood aimed into the cavity and the sides and front almost completely blocked with removable foamcore panels. Keeps everything nice and steady in there, with low humidity and elevated temperature & PLA stays dry.

This is the first time I had an ABS part crack, but I just started using Kisslicer and playing with the settings.
I have to look a the setting when I printed something similar before and did not get any cracking. I think I had higher flow tweak or maybe thicker wall or some infill.
What if I place a towel over the printer? Did you ever have an issue with it getting too hot? With the heatbed at 100deg, it can get pretty hot in there without an air outlet.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #145 on: October 17, 2013, 04:31:56 PM »
Quote
Don't make it air tight. You want slow air circulation, without the possibility of cooler draft puffs entering and disturbing things. On problem parts, add another Loop and/or raise the temp, so that the layers fuse better.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 04:37:31 PM by PenskeGuy »

« Reply #146 on: October 18, 2013, 07:55:07 AM »
Quote
Kisslicer installation and setup for the CubeX. - updated

Attached are instructions and zipped up files to get the Kisslicer setup to use with the CubeX.

Thank you to Evanevery and PenskeGuy to make this work for the CubeX.
Kisslicer CubeX installation rev1.pdf (322.93 kB - downloaded 69 times.)
Kisslicer_settings_CubeX_rev1.zip (664.43 kB - downloaded 61 times.)
Thin wall and solid cube calibration.pdf (61.76 kB - downloaded 60 times.)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 05:24:32 PM by 1looooopy1 »

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #147 on: October 18, 2013, 02:12:54 PM »
Quote
Nice calibration writeup. Seems I've seen that somewhere...

Might just leave out the first section entirely. Thin Wall is covered first in the section below.

I'd add the part about the cube being solid, not modeled walls, to the cube description in the lower section.
Also move the "Extrusion Width = Nozzle Diameter" into the "In the Material tab:" section, just above "Set Flow tweak to 1.0".

To make the package complete, and to make sure that solid is what is used, here's two models. The larger one I used for the Thin Wall test, as my mics have small (0.03125) diameter measuring surface extensions to get into narrow places where the standard 0.250 diameter mics won't fit.
box-halfinch.stl (0.67 kB - downloaded 20 times.)
box-75inch.stl (0.67 kB - downloaded 17 times.)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 02:40:10 PM by PenskeGuy »

« Reply #148 on: October 18, 2013, 03:47:48 PM »
Quote
Thanks, PenskeGuy,
I will edit it into the same post so it is all together.
Your input and help is always greatly appreciated.
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jms
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #149 on: October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM »
Quote
We are definitely seeing our Z-gap change as you had mentioned earlier in this thread. We do have a bracket designed that will attach to the bed and nudge a digital dial gauge so we can see where / if the Z-gap changes. Fighting with ABS to get it printed square however.

I am also trying to find a good place to meter the reed switch, I have very little faith in the accuracy of those switches. We also did design a bracket for the back pedestal (for those with an aftermarket heated bed on a Cubex) along with a nylon machine screw that will keep your magnet from shifting. If anyone wants the .stl let me know.

As for ABS warping I have a few questions:

1) Already bugged 1looooooopy1 over email, he recommends the Kapton + ABS slurry.
2) What ambient temperature should you be at? Does it matter? I am also thinking of enclosing the Duo. We live in Canada, but not in an igloo.
3) Does setting a 360 jitter change the warp? It's a theory of mine that not starting in the same position each layer will help, as we noticed the most significant warp was on the starting corner of our bracket.

Bkjnky

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #150 on: October 21, 2013, 12:59:02 AM »
Quote
Quote from: jms on October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM

2) What ambient temperature should you be at? Does it matter?

The higher the better, up to a point. Consistency is more important but somewhat elevated temperature is advisable.

Quote from: jms on October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM

I am also thinking of enclosing the Duo. We live in Canada, but not in an igloo.

I'm on the coast in Central California, where the climate is rather constant, and enclosing makes a difference. No matter where you live and what your external (to the printer) environment may be, unless it's a totally controlled one, ya gotta think about internal atmospheric changes. Even an unnoticeable waft of cooler air, perhaps caused by someone merely walking past, can make a change in the print's energy quotient; creating an across the part stress.

Quote from: jms on October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM

3) Does setting a 360 jitter change the warp? It's a theory of mine that not starting in the same position each layer will help, as we noticed the most significant warp was on the starting corner of our bracket.

On Loops, the head spends more time at the start/end than anywhere else. Slowing down or sitting there transfers more energy within a given time frame. If you are employing multiple Loops, it is more of a factor.

Quote from: jms on October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM
4) Does *anyone* use a non-adhesive solution to warping?

Here, it's more about getting parts to stick at all, than warping. Many times, a part can be designed to relieve the stress.

For both ABS and PLA, I either print on glass or blue tape. When printing PLA on glass, I apply only a thin film of dissolved ABS cement; and I mean THIN--both in height and viscosity. The mixture is essentially a tinted acetone; no noticeable thickening when compared to pure acetone. It is applied to the glass with a folded over facial tissue as a barely noticeable film. You have to look at a severe angle to see if it's there. That's all it takes. Only a molecular interface is necessary. Anything thicker is a waste of material and time to clean it up. On PLA parts, it scrubs off with a short plastic nail brush under a bit of warm soapy water.

With ABS on glass, the hair spray really works the best, although the ABS film is a close second.

« Reply #151 on: October 21, 2013, 11:52:30 AM »
Quote
jms,
How big is the part footprint, what does it look like, can you post picture?
What is your heated bed temperature setting?

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #152 on: October 21, 2013, 01:14:00 PM »
Quote
Don't have a heated bed. Some parts are 6"h x 6"w x 12"d.

sun-3-top800.jpg (37.9 kB, 800x600 - viewed 61 times.)
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« Reply #153 on: October 21, 2013, 06:19:22 PM »
Quote
Hey guys, I am not down at the shop but I will post some pictures of the warp tomorrow when I get down there. I don't remember the exact dimensions either, but roughly 4" x 6" in an L shape. Heated bed temp we've run at 100, 105, 110, 120. Ambient temperature is 72F.

Penske: do you have a raft on that part? That's a gorgeous print.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #154 on: October 22, 2013, 12:40:31 AM »
Quote
Minimal raft, all the same material, as it doesn't need to be removed from the support for its intended use.

babas45

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #155 on: October 22, 2013, 07:36:13 AM »
Quote
HOW to do for intall 1.04 firmware in the cubex?

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bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #156 on: October 23, 2013, 09:11:15 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 18, 2013, 07:55:07 AM

Kisslicer installation and setup for the CubeX. - updated

Attached are instructions and zipped up files to get the Kisslicer setup to use with the CubeX.

Thank you to Evanevery and PenskeGuy to make this work for the CubeX.

Trying to calibrate for pla using the instructions for thin wall using 15x15x5 cube, but it seems that no matter what I am setting the prime setting to, I am getting a puddle at the start of the print, and then large gaps on the first wall layers afterwards. Adjusting tweak up to 1.3 seems to make the gaps smaller, but increases the wall thickness considerably. if:
.05 prime, .5 suck, 1.0 tweak = small puddle large gaps on first wall but good wall thickness
while .09prime, .5 suck, 1.0 tweak = larger puddle, same gaps, how do I decrease the gaps and puddle while maintaining the thickness?

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bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #157 on: October 23, 2013, 09:22:34 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: babas45 on October 22, 2013, 07:36:13 AM
HOW to do for intall 1.04 firmware in the cubex?

1. Unplug printer
5. Connect a USB cord to your printer and computer.
6. Hold the button marked "+" and simultaneously plug in the printer (you may need help)
7. On your computer, open Cubify software and navigate to the update firmware option click on it, and then select the firmware version you wish to install.
8. Wait for the pop up window to indicate success then Unplug cubeX printer
9. Unplug USB cord from printer
10. Wait 10 seconds
11. Plug printer in and enter activation code.
12. Use touch screen to verify your software version.

You will need the reset your z-gap.

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Hugues

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Posts: 3

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #158 on: October 24, 2013, 07:13:18 AM »
Quote
Hello everybody !

First, thank for all your post, they are really helpfull for a newbee like me !
I installed Kisslicer with the setup for CUBEX and the quality is amazing, i completely forget the cubex software.

I printed lots of 3d file with the basic setup send by 1Looooopy1 and it work well, but i tried to increase the quality with a layer of 0.1 mm.
I took a picture of the first try, the yoda on the left is 0.1 and the one on the right 0.25.
I'm really happy with the vertical print result but i don't understand why it make an hole on the top of the head, do you have an idea to solve this ?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B45Rq_CeWLNXN0ZDelNzS09xRFU/edit?usp=sharing

I change the basic setup to this :
LayerThick : .1
ExtrusionWi : 0.38
InfillExtrusionWi : 0.38

Main Temp : 260
FirstLayer : 270

Speed Fast :
Perimeter : 15
SIS : 20
SI 25

Precise :
Perimeter : 5
SIS : 10
SI : 25

It was really slow to print it, 4H30 to complete it VS 1H30 in 0.25. And in the 0.25 print supports were activated not in the .1.

Thanks for your reply !

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #159 on: October 24, 2013, 09:54:22 PM »
Quote
Quote from: bkjnky on October 23, 2013, 09:11:15 PM
Adjusting tweak up to 1.3 seems to make the gaps smaller, but increases the wall thickness considerably. if:
.05 prime, .5 suck, 1.0 tweak = small puddle large gaps on first wall but good wall thickness
while .09prime, .5 suck, 1.0 tweak = larger puddle, same gaps, how do I decrease the gaps and puddle while maintaining the thickness?

1.3 Flow Tweak is pretty high. Usually, I get positive results with only +/- 0.1

Gaps would be caused by the large difference between Prime and Suck. The extruder is being starved at the beginning of the path. Try a larger setting (1.25) for both. As you adjust, keep them even or at least a lot closer to each other. A small percentage of bias is OK. What you have there is too great a difference.

bsmith19dot98
Jr. Member

Posts: 54

Prime and Suck and Puddles and Gaps
« Reply #160 on: October 25, 2013, 01:45:14 PM »
Quote
I have a comment about Prime and Suck and Puddles and Gaps.

I am running a Cubex Trio firmware 1.06

I tried a large number for prime but it did not work for me. I ended up with a very large puddle followed by gaps.

Prime .05, Suck 1, Wipe 10 work well for me for PLA and ABS.

Make sure that the Gain (under Printer, Extruders) is set to .0225 (for Cubex) for all three extruders. I messed that up at one point moving Kisslicer to a different PC.

Make sure that the extruder map is setup the way you want and that each extruder has the correct material assigned. I seem to have a lot of problems getting this set up correctly before my first cup of coffee. The problem gets better after my second cup of coffee.

My 2 cents...Hope it helps.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: Prime and Suck and Puddles and Gaps
« Reply #161 on: October 25, 2013, 03:11:32 PM »
Quote
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on October 25, 2013, 01:45:14 PM
I tried a large number for prime but it did not work for me. I ended up with a very large puddle followed by gaps.
Prime .05, Suck 1, Wipe 10 work well for me for PLA and ABS.

Well, those settings are just a bit odd. I get that the CubeX extruder design is different but it's not THAT different. No matter what the drive mechanism may be, the physics environment inside extruder nozzles will be pretty much the same. IOW, a direct drive will require small amounts, while a Bowden set up will require relatively huge amounts, due to the inherent slop in a push/pull cable, in order to maintain the same environment in the nozzle as a direct drive.

A "puddle followed by gaps" doesn't make sense. First: How large a "puddle"? Second: This sounds like ooze or residual material on the outside of the nozzle that squishes out when the head comes in contact with the part.

What is your temperature?
How much Z travel is there at layer start/end and how is it being set?

The gaps are caused by the very large difference between Prime and Suck. There is no material at the nozzle entrance and no pressure built up when the filament has been retracted 1mm but only sent forward 0.05mm. Look at it this way, if you have a series of short paths with jumps between, pretty soon you'll end up with zero filament in the nozzle.

Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on October 25, 2013, 01:45:14 PM
Make sure that the Gain (under Printer, Extruders) is set to .0225 (for Cubex) for all three extruders.

The Gain setting is a gross adjustment, upon which all calculations are made. It needs to be set accurately, according to the physical hardware, before any other settings are adjusted in calibration. IOW, if it is set incorrectly, even by a tiny bit, you could be unnecessarily offsetting it by adjusting other settings and still not get good results.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 03:15:41 PM by PenskeGuy »

« Reply #162 on: October 26, 2013, 09:11:59 PM »
Quote
I get good results with Prime 0.06, Suck 0.5, Wipe 10.
Not sure why prime and suck have to be so different to work?
Have not tried with higher suck, but tried with Prime 0.1 and Prime 1 (see attached pictures).
The cube with the smaller glob at the beginning of the first layer was with Prime 0.1, and the other cube with the large glob with Prime 1.
It seems to just glob at the beginning of the first layer and then be ok.
Seems like the prime setting makes a large difference at the beginning of the first layer, but then not so much later.?

test cubes 1.JPG (565.29 kB, 1313x682 - viewed 21 times.)

test cubes 2.JPG (852.06 kB, 1427x906 - viewed 20 times.)

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #163 on: October 26, 2013, 11:57:58 PM »
Quote
WTF? I thought everyone was talking about a "puddle" at the start of every layer. OK, messing with Prime, and keeping it waaaaaay lower than it ever should be in relation to Suck, may have some influence on the puddle problem but is not the solution. It's a band aid. There is some odd (no surprise there) situation going on with the CubeX firmware.

Does the head move from the wipe box and just sit there spewing material for a while before moving?

bkjnky
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Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #164 on: October 27, 2013, 12:56:23 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 26, 2013, 11:57:58 PM
WTF? I thought everyone was talking about a "puddle" at the start of every layer. OK, messing with Prime, and keeping it waaaaaay lower than it ever should be in relation to Suck, may have some influence on the puddle problem but is not the solution. It's a band aid. There is some odd (no surprise there) situation going on with the CubeX firmware.

Does the head move from the wipe box and just sit there spewing material for a while before moving?

Hi PenskeGuy,

in my case, yes the head sits for about 1.5 maybe even a full 2 seconds before it begins moving. I was digging around in the CUBEIT.INI file and I am seeing something that I am not sure about. I am way only a beginner with this so maybe you or evanevry might have some insight. here is the code I am talking about

[Config]
; This is the replacement priming command used for any extruders being used (replaces data for M551, M552, M553)
M55=P1500 S150

The P1500 S150 seems suspect. If we are running cubit as a post processor, could this be affecting the settings in the actual GCODE of the BFB file we are using to print?

Bkjnky

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #165 on: October 27, 2013, 02:01:17 PM »
Quote
That would be the smoking gun. Comment that out and set your Prime/Suck values to .75mm each and try a print. May not be perfect but will get some good data from which to adjust and tell if that purge is the cause of the "puddle".

What is odd bout that M55 command is that it is the first three characters of an M55<EXT+1> variable that controls purge for specific extruders. Without the third number, how are they targeting which extruder gets purged?

In the mean time, can you post the g-code file for that open top cube, so we can take a look at the command sequence?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 02:05:16 PM by PenskeGuy »

bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #166 on: October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM »
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Here are the files. I am more concerned with what I don't see changing than with what cubeit is changing.

the prints came out exactly the same, and commenting out the mod in the ini file doesn't seen to do anything to the output. I am wondering what you think of the M227 lines on the standared BFB output I see vs the cubit output?

Straight BFB file
M551 P32000 S900 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222 later in the file several times

Cubeit Output file, with and without M55 line commented out
M551 P1500 S150 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222

Seems to have the same puddle on either print though.

15mmx15mmcube_75PS_value_cubeit_output.txt (5.9 kB - downloaded 5 times.)
15mmx15mmcube_75PS_value_bfb.txt (5.81 kB - downloaded 3 times.)
15mmx15mmcube_INI File modified.txt (5.9 kB - downloaded 3 times.)

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bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #167 on: October 27, 2013, 03:28:26 PM »
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Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM
Here are the files. I am more concerned with what I don't see changing than with what cubeit is changing.

the prints came out exactly the same, and commenting out the mod in the ini file doesn't seen to do anything to the output. I am wondering what you think of the M227 lines on the standared BFB output I see vs the cubit output?

Straight BFB file
M551 P32000 S900 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222 later in the file several times

Cubeit Output file, with and without M55 line commented out
M551 P1500 S150 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222

Seems to have the same puddle on either print though.

I think there must be some connection with M227. I have modified the M551 line by itself, with no change. After putting it back to the setting that was output by cubit, I tried modifying the M227 line. M227 must control the first layer Prime and Suck as well as any return from cooling pauses (first to second layer, and head changes). I only changed the first M227 line in the file from P2222 to P222 and saw considerable improvement. When the head returned from it's cooling wipe, it again laid down copious puddling. After changing both M227 lines to P30, the print was nearly perfect. think with a setting of somewhere in the 20 to 25 range for this particular filament.

Now the question is what does M227 S2222 do?

« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 04:04:02 PM by bkjnky »
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WarrenE
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #168 on: October 27, 2013, 05:51:15 PM »
Quote
I think it would be helpful to look at the CubeIT.ini file in this regard. You can open it in the text editor. The author comments on a number of settings here including the prime and suck settings. I think you can change those settings in this file, although I haven't had time to experiment lately.

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bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #169 on: October 27, 2013, 06:12:23 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: WarrenE on October 27, 2013, 05:51:15 PM
I think it would be helpful to look at the CubeIT.ini file in this regard. You can open it in the text editor. The author comments on a number of settings here including the prime and suck settings. I think you can change those settings in this file, although I haven't had time to experiment lately.

Yes, precisely what I am talking about above. Unfortunately the modifying the M55X setting in the INI file doesn't seem to have any effect on the first path or on any subsequent paths that involve head changes/cool downs. also when adjusting the prime/suck setting in KISSlicer its the M227 lines that are being changed, not the M55X lines.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #170 on: October 28, 2013, 01:45:02 PM »
Quote
Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 06:12:23 PM
also when adjusting the prime/suck setting in KISSlicer its the M227 lines that are being changed, not the M55X lines.

That is correct. In M227, the S is Suck, the P is Prime; both in stepper steps. This line is generated from the Prime/Suck values entered on the Material tab. Altering the stepper values in the G-code is the same as setting mm values in KS.

In M55x, P is Purge amount in stepper steps and S is Speed expressed as RPM*10.

That is why I am focusing on M55x commands, as that is what is causing the puddle; not Prime. If it were Prime, there would be a puddle on every layer. That is not the case. The upper part of the print is fine, with the exception of the reported gaps that are caused by too little Prime.

PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #171 on: October 28, 2013, 02:15:17 PM »
Quote
Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM
Here are the files. I am more concerned with what I don't see changing than with what cubeit is changing.

The
15mmx15mmcube_75PS_value_cubeit_output.txt
and
15mmx15mmcube_INI File modified.txt files
are the same file.

Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM
the prints came out exactly the same, and commenting out the mod in the ini file doesn't seen to do anything to the output. I am wondering what you think of the M227 lines on the standared BFB output I see vs the cubit output?

See the response to bkjnky.

Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM
Straight BFB file
M551 P32000 S900 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222 later in the file several times

Cubeit Output file, with and without M55 line commented out
M551 P1500 S150 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222

Edit the KS file, putting the M551 P1500 S150 line in place of M551 P32000 S900.
The former is 1500 stepper steps at 15 RPM, the latter is 32,000 stepper steps at 90 RPM.
Leave the M227 lines alone for now. They are irrelevant to the puddling.

What is odd to me is that there are two temperature commands: M104 S230 and M109 S230. This is redundant. M104 changes temp without waiting. M109 changes temp and waits for the target to be reached. Are both M104 and M109 in your Select Extruder G-code tab?

Nuke both of the:
M109 Snnn
lines and the second
M227 S2222 P2222
line and see if there is a change in the operation.

If this is PLA, 230 is too high, at least for the filaments I use; whether BfB or NatureWorks. Standard for BfB is 195. NW prints well between 185 and 205. Rarely go to 215. To keep things simple during these tests, set the First Layer Temp to the same as Material Temp. Elevated First Layer is just complicating things. Keep It Simple. Get fancy later.

Compare my calibration slice to yours. Don't try to run it. My Z-height setting is different from yours.
box-halfinch-test.bfb (4.82 kB - downloaded 8 times.)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 03:38:44 PM by PenskeGuy »

bkjnky
Newbie

Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #172 on: October 29, 2013, 07:31:04 PM »
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Attempted changes recommended.

The M551 command seems to control the purge at the wiper.

Tried setting M551 P1500 S150 to M551 P27 S150 - Resulted very short purge at wiper, same puddle at first print point.

Set temp to 200

Set M551 P1500 S150 and modified M227 S2222 P2222 to M227 S2222 P27 - Resulted in normal purge, no puddle. Seems to have about 2mm of ooze at nozzle as it comes across build platform. Print resulted in slight gaps in wall on starting corner, corner 2 and corner 4

it almost acts as though there is not suck happening after the purge.

Can you take a look at the attached images of my settings, could this be the cause of the redundant M104 commands?

deselectExtruder.PNG (13 kB, 541x272 - viewed 14 times.)

SelectExtruder.PNG (14.07 kB, 542x269 - viewed 12 times.)
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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #173 on: October 30, 2013, 12:19:22 AM »
Quote
See? Gaps is due to not enough Prime compared to Suck. Let's focus on the Purge and leave Prime out of it, please.

There should be zero ooze after leaving the wipe box, so something is not right. Seems like this is the start of the puddle.

Yes, the Select/Deselect tabs are wrong. There are BfB and 5D portions in the same code. Unless there is something of a hybrid going on, where CubeX actually needs 5D, it should be wiped out. That doesn't explain where the M109 Snnn is coming from, though.

My Select:
Quote
; Select and warm the (new?) extruder
M<EXT+1>04 S<TEMP>
; Purge
;M542
M55<EXT+1> P57000 S600
;M543

My Deselect:
Quote
; Retract
;M542
M56<EXT+1> P9600 S900
;M543
; Cool the (same) extruder
M<EXT+1>04 S<TEMP>

(M542 and M543 lines are commented out, as they are redundant on this hardware.)

Do you see the differences in my calibration cube slice?

Still don't have the contents of the cubeit.ini file.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 12:26:39 AM by PenskeGuy »

WarrenE
Newbie

Posts: 10

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #174 on: October 30, 2013, 06:37:45 PM »
Quote
Would it help to see what Cubex generates? It seems that the latest version (1.07) saves a copy of the Cubex file as a bfb file when it writes the build file. I wonder if this is an error on their part....

I've attached a really simple STL file (modified automatically by Cubex, hence the "rebuilt" ending in the name) along with the Cubex and the BFB files that were created by Cubex V1.07. Perhaps by looking at the code it is possible to figure out how they handle the prime and suck routines.
helper disk large - 22mm (rebuilt).bfb (55.21 kB - downloaded 7 times.)
helper disk large - 22mm (rebuilt).stl (12 kB - downloaded 5 times.)
helper disk large - 22mm.cubex (55.22 kB - downloaded 5 times.)
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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #175 on: October 31, 2013, 05:40:31 AM »
Quote
Hey guys... I've been off the grid for a while. CUBEIT will replace any/all M55{x} command with whatever value you put in the INI file. If you comment out the M55 command altogether, you will still get the default value which was suggested waaaay back at the beginning of this thread. (I did that so if someone inadvertently leaves out the INI setting altogether, or damages their INI file, they still get the "suggested" value). Apparently, the default bfb prime/purge command is way too long for the cubex... Check the very earliest messages in this thread for more info...

You can change the M55x values to whatever you want in the INI file, it will be set for all initial nozzle priming (initial purge) commands (M551, M552, M553). Please note that this is ONLY for the initial Prime/purge of the nozzles (to the waste bin) and should not effect any prime/suck operations while the print is actually running. It just keeps the nozzle from ejecting loads of material into the waste bin needlessly...

If anyone thinks this might be better handled in some other manner just let me know!

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #176 on: October 31, 2013, 01:21:18 PM »
Quote
Thanks for the clarification. That is what I've been trying to find out. Let's keep the terminology clear, though. M55x handles Purge. It has nothing to do with Prime at all. They are two separate functions. Interchanging these terms by some has led to confusion and no solutions.

« Reply #177 on: October 31, 2013, 01:23:10 PM »
Quote
Is there a list with explanations for the g-code commands?
That would be awesome.
thank you.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #178 on: October 31, 2013, 01:25:51 PM »
Quote
Let me Google that for you:
https://www.google.com/search?q=g-code+commands
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 01:43:05 PM by PenskeGuy »

bkjnky
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Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #179 on: October 31, 2013, 06:32:17 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 31, 2013, 01:21:18 PM
Thanks for the clarification. That is what I've been trying to find out. Let's keep the terminology clear, though. M55x handles Purge. It has nothing to do with Prime at all. They are two separate functions. Interchanging these terms by some has led to confusion and no solutions.

Great Scott! I have been geeking on this because I was mis-understanding the terminology. So now that I am clear, I still seem to be getting the nozzle ooze.

Do you think the solution is in the Purge command for this, or is it more likely my temp? I have moved the temp down to 195 and still seem to be getting the ooze, but upping m551 P1500 S+++ doesn't seem to help.

Update...
Settings at
M104 s185
M551 P1000 S1500

Still getting about 3mm of ooze at nozzle. I can see no difference in the amount of ooze when M551 S150 or M551 S1500. Is there something I am missing?

« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 07:29:22 PM by bkjnky »
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bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #180 on: October 31, 2013, 11:04:38 PM »
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I think the answer to the missing suck is:

^Firmware:V1.04

^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:1
^MaterialLengthE1: 1

^MaterialCodeE1: 200
G21
G90
M104 S200
M542
M227 S63 P137
M228 P0 S63
M551 P1500 S150
M543
M108 S6.7
M103

I am not really sure why, but the M228 command has a reversed P&S as compared to the M227 command
The M103 activates the M228 as the head moves towards the initial print point initiating suck.

If anyone has ideas on this please let me know. It works, but I don't know why...unless it's just a quirk built into the 3DripS firmware...

I have attached the files in case someone else would like to test this out on their CubeX machine to help verify the result.

Next question, if this does truly appear to be the answer, can we add this into the post processing INI file that evanevery so excellently built?

15mmx15mmcube(1).bfb (5.98 kB - downloaded 8 times.)
15mmx15mmcube(1).bfb.bak (5.88 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
15mmx15mmcube.stl (3.27 kB - downloaded 4 times.)

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #181 on: November 01, 2013, 12:16:31 AM »
Quote
Quote from: bkjnky on October 31, 2013, 06:32:17 PM

but upping m551 P1500 S+++ doesn't seem to help.

That's because lowering it would.

Quote from: bkjnky on October 31, 2013, 06:32:17 PM

Still getting about 3mm of ooze at nozzle. I can see no difference in the amount of ooze when M551 S150 or M551 S1500. Is there something I am missing?

Yes. Get a G-code manual. On M551, S = RPM * 10 so you're running the extruder drive at 150 RPM!

« Reply #182 on: November 01, 2013, 12:26:06 AM »
Quote
Quote from: bkjnky on October 31, 2013, 11:04:38 PM
I am not really sure why, but the M228 command has a reversed P&S as compared to the M227 command

Huh? In the g-code list I have, M228 disables M227 and has no parameters.

Quote from: bkjnky on October 31, 2013, 11:04:38 PM
The M103 activates the M228 as the head moves towards the initial print point initiating suck.

This doesn't make any sense. M103 turns all the extruders off.

« Reply #183 on: November 01, 2013, 05:16:49 AM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: PenskeGuy link=topic=689.msg7035#msg7035 date
Yes. Get a G-code manual. On M551, S = RPM * 10 so you're running the extruder drive at 150 RPM!

My point exactly. No change even when extremely different.

Changing to the 551 P/S setting only changes the the amount purged (forward feed) at the wiper as far as I can tell. By adding the M228 with a swapped P/S order I'm getting a reverse at the extruder, but only when there is a M103 command in place.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 05:23:25 AM by bkjnky »
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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #184 on: November 01, 2013, 06:15:52 AM »
Quote
Hey guys... I thought we cleared this up? The M55x commands (M551, M552, M553) are not used to prime the nozzles during the print, they are just used to purge the nozzles (to the waste bin) BEFORE the print starts. If you guys are tinkering with the M55x settings in hope that it will change how your extruders lay down material then I think you're wasting your time... You can confirm this by noticing that the M55x commands only appear at the very start of the print file - not during the print process.

If anyone sees/knows anything different, please let us know.

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #185 on: November 01, 2013, 06:29:31 AM »
Quote
I'll also be quite happy to update the CUBEIT code if we need to swap or modify the M227/228 commands (or tweak any other parameters as required).

However, I would suggest comparing the results of print files both with and without MANUAL modifications (edits) before we choose to implement an automatic tweak via CUBEIT. That way we can be sure the tweaks are valid before they are automated. We obviously also need to be able to understand and describe specifically how a command (or set of commands) needs to be tweaked so it can be applied programmatically.

Standing by for suggestions...

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BillDempsey
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #186 on: November 01, 2013, 09:26:53 AM »
Quote
Hey guys, this is a bit off topic, but it is news for CubeX owners. A new modeler from 3DSystems, called Cubify Design, has been released and it being marketed as the next step up from Cubify Invent on their web site. This is a lie. Everyone should know up front that Cubify Design will NOT import files you've previously created with Cubify Invent. Seriously.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #187 on: November 01, 2013, 12:59:54 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on November 01, 2013, 06:29:31 AM
I'll also be quite happy to update the CUBEIT code if we need to swap or modify the M227/228 commands (or tweak any other parameters as required).

So what is M228, if not Disable M227?

evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #188 on: November 01, 2013, 01:03:16 PM »
Quote
I have no idea...

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #189 on: November 01, 2013, 01:13:54 PM »
Quote
Quote from: bkjnky on November 01, 2013, 05:16:49 AM
My point exactly. No change even when extremely different.

Well, my point is that 90 RPM on a 3DT lead screw drive is pretty darn fast. The difference in throughput on a CubeX is significantly greater, due to the difference between the pitch of the lead screw per turn on a 3DT and the circumference of the CubeX hobbed wheel on a CubeX. There is probably a maximum limit to the RPM setting and 150 is way over it, so no change. If the Gain is set at 0.0225 for a CubeX, and remains at 1.0 for a 3DT, you can see what I'm talking about as to difference in measurements.

Quote from: bkjnky on November 01, 2013, 05:16:49 AM
Changing to the 551 P/S setting only changes the the amount purged (forward feed) at the wiper as far as I can tell.

Correct.

Quote from: bkjnky on November 01, 2013, 05:16:49 AM
By adding the M228 with a swapped P/S order I'm getting a reverse at the extruder, but only when there is a M103 command in place.

Wait... you added M228? From where?

« Reply #190 on: November 01, 2013, 01:14:34 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on November 01, 2013, 01:03:16 PM
I have no idea...

Ok, good. I thought I was losin' it.

The only commands that I know reverse the drive are Mx02, M56x and (for automatic destring) M227 (but those are limits, not commands to do so--commands to destring according to those limits are triggered by M103/M101.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 01:21:46 PM by PenskeGuy »

bsmith19dot98
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Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #191 on: November 03, 2013, 05:33:28 PM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on November 01, 2013, 01:13:54 PM
Wait... you added M228? From where?

He may have used a "text editor".

I'll google it for you
https://www.google.com/#q=text+editor

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #192 on: November 03, 2013, 06:53:40 PM »
Quote
I know full well how to edit a G-code file and what applications to use to do it. And, I didn't say "how?" I said "from where?". What I mean is: "Where did the M228 Pxx Sxx command come from in the FIRST place that got edited in?" BECAUSE, M228 has no P/S parameters that I know of and only disables M227 if it is input.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 06:59:47 PM by PenskeGuy »

bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #193 on: November 04, 2013, 06:33:54 PM »
Quote
If you look at the output of Cubex Slicer, every "extruder select" routine includes the following code:
M104 S250 P1
M542
M104 S250
M551 P284 S80.000
M227 P284 S300
M228 P0 S284
M543
M108 S25
M103
Notice that M227 is followed by M228 and M228 has a P and S parameter. My research so far agrees with yours that M228 doesn't normally have parameters and seems counterintuitive. Bkjnky shows and discusses all of this in post #180.

So the question becomes "what do the Cubex Slicer programmers know about the Cubex that we don't know?"
The question for us is "how does this code work with the machine?" and "Do we need to modify the output of Kisslicer/Cubeit?"
I know that Bkjnky is working on this now. I'm sure others are too. I will be working on it as soon as I can get back to my machine.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #194 on: November 04, 2013, 07:28:06 PM »
Quote
No, the real question (rhetorical) is: "What do the CubeX Slicer programmers know about anything?" I mean, just look at the number of complaints about crappy prints.

As evidenced by looking at that code block, it's garbage.
M104 S250 P1 - set extruder 1 temp (no idea what P1 is there for)
M542 - enter the wipe box
M104 S250 - set extruder 1 temp again (because we Borked it the first time)
M551 P284 S80.000 - Prime extruder 284 steps @ 8 RPM
M227 P284 S300 - set Prime and Suck values (after the Prime already happened) P & S are reversed
M228 P0 S284 - disable M227 P/S value settings (why?) no idea what P & S are there for
M543 - exit the wipe box
M108 S25 - set extruder 1 to 2.5 RPM
M103 - turn all extruders off
Are ya kiddin' me!? Now, granted, with their screwed up mindset of proprietary everything, the firmware has a very good probability of being so screwed around that it will take reverse engineering to learn what they are doing with non-standard codes. Heck, there are plenty of numbers unused. Assign something to them, instead of messing with ones that are standard. Of course, that would be logical.

Bkjnky

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bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #195 on: November 07, 2013, 05:52:45 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Ok so I am going down another road now. I've ordered new arduino board, ramps and LCD. I like the chassis, but I'm tired of all this proprietary garbage...new guts, new problems, but at least I can modify to correct without having to guess at cause and effect

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #196 on: November 08, 2013, 01:39:34 AM »
Quote
A better plan. I've long been considering replacing the board on my 3DT after this Big Job has been completed. The 3DT is quite a more capable and workable machine than the CubeX, from which the latter sprang, but there is still room for improvement.

« Reply #197 on: November 13, 2013, 10:34:24 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
CubeX fully disassembled. Waiting on new PSU. Arduino,shield and ramps 1.4 ready to go. Thinking marlin firmware due to need for setting E1 to power 2nd Y axis stepper...

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swilhelm88

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #198 on: November 14, 2013, 10:43:40 AM »
Quote
Let me know how this goes, I just fully disassembled mine thinking about reverse engineering some of the feed counter stuff but at this point I think I might just prefer new guts.
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bsmith19dot98
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Prime, Suck, and Puddles
« Reply #199 on: November 15, 2013, 09:57:07 AM »
Quote
I found a solution to the Prime, suck, and puddles issue.

Put the M227 line in front of M551.

M104 S230
M542
M227 S1481 P2963
M551 P600 S80.000
M543
M106
M108 S8.4
G1 X-36.73 Y-11.47 Z1 F12000
G1 X-36.73 Y-11.47 Z0.75 F210
M101

You can now put in any value you want for Prime and Suck and you will not get a puddle at the beginning of the print. The example above is a prime of 1 and a Suck of .5.

Why does this work?

Near the beginning of this thread someone posted a set of .ini files to help cubex users get started (I'm sorry I don't remember who that was). Those files had a prime of .05 and a suck of I think 1 (can't remember - doesn't matter). People like me were too busy learning all this new stuff to notice or worry about it yet. One day it came up and Penske pointed out that a prime of .05 was really low compared to what most people are running. So I (and others) tried a larger value like 1 and we got a large puddle at the beginning of the print. Back to .05. Penske pointed out (correctly) that this was really just a work around for a larger problem. And it was not a very good work around because it really limits flexibility. Unfortunately I was out of town then this came up and was not able to work on it.

After about 2 dozen little test cubes I figured out what the machine is doing. I make no assumptions as to why. This is just what I observed.

If you look at the output from Cubex Slicer they actually have the same problem. However they start the first path of the first layer outside of the part. This is an example of "what do they know that I don't know".

M227 Sxxx Pyyy sets suck and prime. M101 turn on the extruder and executes the set amount of prime.

As the Cubex executes the G-code it sees the M227 and reads the values. When it gets to the M101 it does NOT prime by the amount specified. It primes by amount times 10! I don't know the exact number but it looks like the puddle is about 10 times the size that it should be. Lets call this a "super prime". This only happens on the first M101 following a new M227. From now on M101 will prime the proper amount. This is why the problem only occurs on the first layer and not the rest.

M103 and suck do not appear to have this feature/characteristic/bug.

If the value of M227 changes then the next M101 will execute another "super prime".

Since this feature is not going away then lets at least move the super prime away from the print. How about the waste bucket?

First I tried
M542
M551 P600 S80.000
M227 S1481 P2963
M101
M103
M543
Worked like a charm. The machine executes a super prime into the waste bucket then prints normally.

Then it occured to me that M551 turns on the extruder. Maybe we can use that to trigger the super prime. Worked like a charm with less code.

Sorry for the long post.

Hope this helps.

Bob
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bsmith19dot98
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CUBEX Bed stl
« Reply #200 on: November 15, 2013, 10:39:58 AM »
Quote
I don't remember seeing this posted before. Sorry if it is a duplicate.

Attached are stl models of the cubex bed. I have included lines to indicate the zones for each extruder. The lines shown are not "calibrated" so please use them as a "loose" guide only.

Someone else already pointed out that the cubex table is off center from Kisslicer. In their case the table is -35mm off in X. My table is off by -25.26mm. This means the stl needs to be offset by the same amount.

Solidworks defaults to outputting an stl in positive space. In solidworks to make the stl come out correctly you need to click options -> and check "Do not translate stl output to positive space.
Cubex Build Table No Offset.STL (340.9 kB - downloaded 7 times.)
Cubex Build Table -35.STL (340.9 kB - downloaded 8 times.)
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Placebo
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #201 on: November 15, 2013, 11:13:02 AM »
Quote
<----Please excuse the noob still trying to get his head around all this stuff.

Would enabling the prime pillar help with the puddling? I realize you can correct it by changing the code but I'm just curious if enabling prime pillar would be an effective work-around as well. Thanks.
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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #202 on: November 15, 2013, 11:24:03 AM »
Quote
Placebo,

Excellent idea. I had not gotten around to trying out the prime piller. Yes that will accomplish the same thing.
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Placebo
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #203 on: November 15, 2013, 11:35:39 AM »
Quote
Thanks for the feedback bsmith. It's reassuring to know that I'm starting to understand some of this stuff. Also thanks for pointing out the bed offset, I hadn't noticed that until I read your post. Mine was also off by -35mm X.

Boy I sure do suck at the anti-spam captcha's....

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PenskeGuy
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Re: Prime, Suck, and Puddles
« Reply #204 on: November 15, 2013, 02:50:26 PM »
Quote
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on November 15, 2013, 09:57:07 AM
If you look at the output from Cubex Slicer they actually have the same problem. However they start the first path of the first layer outside of the part. This is an example of "what do they know that I don't know".

Just some random extrusion on the way to the first layer start point or something similar to a skirt?

Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on November 15, 2013, 09:57:07 AM
First I tried
M542
M551 P600 S80.000
M227 S1481 P2963
M101
M103
M543
Worked like a charm. The machine executes a super prime into the waste bucket then prints normally.

Then it occured to me that M551 turns on the extruder. Maybe we can use that to trigger the super prime. Worked like a charm with less code.

That has the "Ring of Truth". All the rest prior did not. Good goin'.

« Reply #205 on: November 15, 2013, 03:50:59 PM »
Quote
Not a skirt. Cubex slicer (CS) picks some point (there is probably some formula behind it) maybe 10mm away from the start point if the print. Executes a "super prime" and prints a single straight line to the start point of the print. After the print is finished there is this thread to trim off. It only does this once regardless of which materials were used during the print.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #206 on: November 15, 2013, 04:06:04 PM »
Quote
Ok, that's what I figured. They print a default skirt function. It just doesn't go all the way around the part. Looks from your analysis that it can't be turned off; not that it is necessarily a bad thing, now that you've developed a method to control it.

Cubex Cartridges
« Reply #207 on: November 15, 2013, 05:27:31 PM »
Quote
I don't remember seeing this posted before. Sorry if it is a duplicate.

You can run a Cubex Trio, firmware version 1.07(current) WITHOUT CARTRIDGES by removing the Material declarations from the header.

The only header line required to load and run a program is the Firmware line.

I have not figured out yet what if anything the DRM line does.

^Firmware:V1.07
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:7
^MaterialLength: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 200
^MaterialCodeE2: 208
^MaterialCodeE3: 255
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1looooopy1
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #208 on: November 17, 2013, 07:32:28 AM »
Quote
A CubeX trio can print a .bfb (kisslicer) file (after CubeIt conversion), with jet 3 without cartridge installed in bay 3. You still assign jet 3 and color/filament type, but it prints ignoring if there is a cartridge in bay 3 or not. Seems to work only on jet 3 and only with .bfb file. Running firmware version 1.07 or earlier.

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #209 on: November 17, 2013, 08:40:56 AM »
Quote
This is all really good news. I've been out of town for about a week. I will be back late this next week. If you guys can lock down the necessary logic updates to the BFB print files, I wll do my best to incorporate them into the CubeIT code when I get back!
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1looooopy1
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #210 on: November 21, 2013, 09:37:56 PM »
Quote
I have seen some slicing problems in some models and wondered if those are software limitations or else?
The first example is the mask, where one surface printed all rough. You could hear the print carriage go a little erratic when moving thru that area. When I zoomed into the sliced model, you could see that the inner loop is squiggly and not straight. The part was printed with 3 loops, but when I set to 2 loops it still shows issue. The same surface on the opposite side of the mask is smooth and the slicing shows smooth.
Attached are pictures of right (good) and left (bad) side of mask and a slicing screen shot of right and left side. Attaching the .stl file in the next post.
Also, for some other odd reason, the mask part finished and it thought it was done when only 66.25mm into the print of the 150mm. ?? The printfile had the code up to 150mm in it. ??

The other example is the vader head with a slice screen shot at the eye area where the eye outline is all crazy.

Any thoughts?
thank you.

mask left side.JPG (502.21 kB, 1197x833 - viewed 24 times.)

mask right side.JPG (583.61 kB, 1173x875 - viewed 24 times.)

mask left -bad.jpg (390.66 kB, 1683x1029 - viewed 17 times.)

mask right -good.jpg (234.04 kB, 1688x1036 - viewed 13 times.)

darth vader 2.jpg (426.78 kB, 1686x1054 - viewed 16 times.)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 09:43:59 PM by 1looooopy1 »
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1looooopy1
Newbie

Posts: 34

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #211 on: November 21, 2013, 09:39:39 PM »
Quote
This goes to prior post.
Mask .stl file attached.
mask_clipped.stl (97.8 kB - downloaded 12 times.)

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #212 on: November 22, 2013, 06:58:05 AM »
Quote
I am still fighting some issues with printing via kisslicer. I don't think they are problems with the utility, but rather a settings issue. I have been out of town for a couple of weeks so have not had a chance to continue my testing. I do think one of the issues I am seeing may be due to using the default kisslicer prime/suck settings (.05/1 if i remember correctly). My last print (20% fill) had virtually no internal structure (narrow width) as I think the imbalanced suck operations were starving the print head. I know we've had some discussion about this and I will be testing 0.75/0.75 when I get a chance...

It would REALLY be great if we (as a community) could all be working with the same baseline kisslicer settings as we move forward. Perhaps a comprehensive running list of settings that we can all use as a reference. I would expect a single baseline should suffice for everyone. It sounds like we are not there yet. Screen shots are complete but are rather tedious to process. We could also exchange INI files, but then that would lead to a lot of searching and comparisons to see if anything had actually changed or evolved. A table of parameters would be better to use as a common reference as we would have immediate textual display of the info we are looking for. Personally, I think a standardized table which included all settings for both PLA and ABS would be helpful. I'm still getting caught up on a bunch of stuff, but I will try to post something as a starting point as I find time to get the info together...

Where are we on the cartridge dependencies? If we pull the material settings out of the header of the BFB file can we run with whatever filament we want? Has anyone tested or confirmed this? I'm tired of buying overpriced filament and then continually having to crack open the cartridges to try and unbind the filament as it continually locks up, kills my print, and wastes my time. It would be easy enough for me to remove any material dependencies from the CubeIt code if this truly is a working solution moving forward. There would also be some additional logic and interface changes to CubeIt, but the first step is to confirm that this is truly a workable solution. The header in the CubeIT output BFB file can easily be edited with a text editor to check if this is workable. Again, as I have time I can test this, but I am curious if our community has already confirmed this to be a workable solution...
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bsmith19dot98
Jr. Member

Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #213 on: November 22, 2013, 07:20:26 AM »
Quote
Loopy,

Can you post your settings? I just tried your mask_clipped.stl with the settings visible in your jpgs and of course it sliced fine for me. When I review the path's the perimeters appear symmetric on both sides. If you want to post (or PM) your .ini files I will duplicate your setup this weekend and look at it.

Bob
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Placebo
Newbie

Posts: 13

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #214 on: November 22, 2013, 07:22:10 AM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on November 22, 2013, 06:58:05 AM
I'm tired of buying overpriced filament and then continually having to crack open the cartridges to try and unbind the filament as it continually locks up, kills my print, and wastes my time.
X2. I just opened a brand new ABS yellow and got a filament flow error within 30 minutes of my first print. Cracked the case so I could run it on the filament spool holder I printed but that didn't work cause the cardboard spool came apart where it is glued at the core. I wish I could say this is the first time this has happened but sadly it has happened way too many times. Going forward I will NOT be buying anymore of the horribly designed crappy cartridges. I will downgrade firmware to 1.04 if that is what I need to do to be free of that frustration.

I'm on board for collaborating settings used on the cubex. I'm admittedly way behind most of you here so I have just been using what others have already posted. Like the ones in this post by printman on the google groups board:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/cubex-3d-printing/4bkFDsqsINg

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bsmith19dot98
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Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #215 on: November 22, 2013, 07:45:26 AM »
Quote
Evan,

I'm probably going to regret saying this out loud, but right now my Cubex Trio / Kisslicer is running great! I am getting decent and consistent results. CAVEAT! I am not printing as big and complex models as other people are. I think I am down to working out Temperature, Flow tweak, moisture, and to a lesser extent prime and suck.

Right now I am using Prime=0.2 and Suck=0.1. My machine seems to like a ratio of about 2:1. It works, its consistant (for both pla and abs) but not perfect yet.

I am working on sending you some emails this weekend with basically some info should you decide to update CubeIt.

I am running ABS without cartridges now because of jamming issues.

I would also like to hear if anyone else has tried removing the material statements and run without cartridges.

Bob

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #216 on: November 22, 2013, 08:07:03 AM »
Quote
So, you're saying that you can confirm that you can run Kisslicer BFB print files through CubeIt, manually remove the material codes in the resulting header, and then print with whatever filament you want? Firmware v1.07?

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bsmith19dot98
Jr. Member

Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #217 on: November 22, 2013, 08:46:15 AM »
Quote
Yes. That's what I was trying to say in post #207 but I may not have said it very well.

You can test this easily.

Generate a program and edit out all of the material statements.

Pull out all of the cartridges loaded on the machine about an inch. They are still resting in the slots, just not on the contacts.

Now check the cartridge info. All three slots should show "cartridge not found".

Run your program

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #218 on: November 22, 2013, 09:37:30 AM »
Quote
That's really great! This will change much of the logic in CubeIt (simplify it greatly). This means CubeIT will not have to track material info at all. I will consider the specifics as time becomes available.

Although I now have quite an investment of CubeX cartridges, at least this would give us the option of manually unwinding and respooling the CubeX filament onto generic spools which actually rotate and feed properly... Hopefully the printing process will then become less hit and miss wrt to filament jams!

Woo Hoo!

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #219 on: November 22, 2013, 10:06:18 AM »
Quote
I would like to submit a standard listing of parameters for the CubeX STYLES, MATERIALS, and PRINTER Info. The values in the list below are what I currently have for my system. I am NOT claiming that any/all of these are the optimum baseline for our systems, but I would like to see if we can first agree that this is an acceptable list of parameters for us to work with.

If we can get some consensus that this text format is reasonable (easily read and applied to the software), all salient CubeX specific characteristics are covered, and that there is not TOO much data to dilute the important details (do we need STYLES?), maybe then we can work toward addressing the actual settings in this list.

The end game here would be a nice concise list of settings that would ultimately become a well established baseline for the CubeX printer and its associated materials (both ABS and PLA). Easily Read, Discussed, and Applied without having to jump between someones INI files, anothers screen shots, and someone elses text listings. (No offense intended to anyone participating in this discussion - just trying to expedite some common ground for further discussion...)

Here is my starting point. (I specified "Courier" for the "Font Face" used below as it will provide a fixed pitch font for easy column alignment). Comments are appreciated:

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STYLE: CubeX - Solid Infill - 0.25 Layer
--------------------------------------
Skin Thickness: 1
Number of Loops: 1
Stacked Sparse Infill: 1
Inset Surface: 0
Infill%: 100
Infill Style: N/A
Extrusion Width: 0.5
Infill Extrusion Width: 0.5
Layer Thickness: 0.25
Loops go from Inside: Disable
Wipe: Enable
De-String: Enable
Seam Hiding: 1.0
Jitter: 0

STYLE: CubeX - 20% Infill - 0.25 Layer
--------------------------------------
Skin Thickness: 1
Number of Loops: 2
Stacked Sparse Infill: 1
Inset Surface: 0
Infill%: 20
Infill Style: Rounded
Extrusion Width: 0.5
Infill Extrusion Width: 0.5
Layer Thickness: 0.25
Loops go from Inside: Disable
Wipe: Enable
De-String: Enable
Seam Hiding: 1.0
Jitter: 0

STYLE: CubeX - Solid Infill - 0.10 Layer
--------------------------------------
Skin Thickness: 1
Number of Loops: 1
Stacked Sparse Infill: 1
Inset Surface: 0
Infill%: 100
Infill Style: N/A
Extrusion Width: 0.38
Infill Extrusion Width: 0.38
Layer Thickness: 0.1
Loops go from Inside: Disable
Wipe: Enable
De-String: Enable
Seam Hiding: 1.0
Jitter: 0

STYLE: CubeX - 20% Infill - 0.10 Layer
--------------------------------------
Skin Thickness: 1
Number of Loops: 2
Stacked Sparse Infill: 1
Inset Surface: 0
Infill%: 20
Infill Style: Rounded
Extrusion Width: 0.38
Infill Extrusion Width: 0.38
Layer Thickness: 0.1
Loops go from Inside: Disable
Wipe: Enable
De-String: Enable
Seam Hiding: 1.0
Jitter: 0
--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------

Material: CubeX ABS
--------------------------------------
Diameter: 1.7
Temp
Main: 255
1st Layer: 265
Keep-Warm: 150
Bed: 0
DeString
Prime: .75
Suck: .75
Wipe: 10
Speed: 15
Min Jump: 1
Trigger: 100
Fan/Cool
Loops: 100
Inside: 0
Cool: 100
Fan Z: 0
Min Layer: 10
Flow Adjust
Flow Tweak: 1.1
Min: 0.01
Max: 10
Misc
Z-Lift: 0
Warm Time: 0
$/CM3: 0

Material: CubeX PLA
--------------------------------------
Diameter: 1.7
Temp
Main: 195
1st Layer: 210
Keep-Warm: 150
Bed: 0
DeString
Prime: .75
Suck: .75
Wipe: 10
Speed: 15
Min Jump: 1
Trigger: 100
Fan/Cool
Loops: 100
Inside: 0
Cool: 100
Fan Z: 0
Min Layer: 10
Flow Adjust
Flow Tweak: 1.1
Min: 0.01
Max: 10
Misc
Z-Lift: 0
Warm Time: 0
$/CM3: 0
--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------

Printer: CubeX
--------------------------------------
Hardware
Extruders: {1/2/3 As Appropriate}
InFill Overlap: 0.50
Bed Size: 275 x 265 x 240
$/Hour: 0
Bed Center X: 0
Bed Center Y: 0
Bed Roughness: 0
Z-Settle: 0.25
Z-Offset: 0
Bed STL Model: {none}
Firmware

Firmware Type: Bits From Bytes Printers

File Extension: bfb
Mark Path: None
Include Comments: Enable
Fan On: M106
Fan Off: M107
Fan PWM: Enable
Post-Process: CUBEIT.EXE "<FILE>" {material ID Nozzle 1},{material ID Nozzle 2},{Material ID Nozzle 3}
Extruders
Each Extruder
Material: {PLA / ABS As Appropriate}
Gain: 0.0225
Axis: E
Extruder Mapping: {As Appropriate}
Speed
Fast
Perimeter: 20
Solid Infill: 30
Sparse Infill: 30
Precise
Perimeter: 10
Solid Infill: 15
Sparse Infill: 30
XY Travel Speed: 200
Z Speed: 3.5
1st Layer Max Speed: 15
Limit Increase: 50
XY Accel: 1500

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joestefano
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Posts: 12

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #220 on: November 22, 2013, 11:45:56 AM »
Quote
Would it be helpful if we all used the same test part to print with various settings.
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WarrenE
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Posts: 10

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #221 on: November 22, 2013, 12:16:23 PM »
Quote
I can also confirm that removing the material statements works. The only statement I leave in is the firmware one. The rest I edit out just using Notepad. It works great without any cartridges installed (all three bays work this way on the Treo) and I think this is really a game changer. This is on V1.04, but I believe it also works on V1.07 (from a previous post here).

I am still having some challenges with support structures and blobs building up on them. Eventually one of the unused printer tips knocks off the supports when they get high enough in the build structure. this may be related to the prime/suck function. It is still not perfect.....

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Placebo
Newbie

Posts: 13

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #222 on: November 22, 2013, 03:18:22 PM »
Quote
Quote from: WarrenE on November 22, 2013, 12:16:23 PM
I can also confirm that removing the material statements works. The only statement I leave in is the firmware one. The rest I edit out just using Notepad. It works great without any cartridges installed (all three bays work this way on the Treo) and I think this is really a game changer. This is on V1.04, but I believe it also works on V1.07 (from a previous post here).

I am still having some challenges with support structures and blobs building up on them. Eventually one of the unused printer tips knocks off the supports when they get high enough in the build structure. this may be related to the prime/suck function. It is still not perfect.....
Can someone please post an example of what needs to be removed in regards to material statements?

Would it be this?:

material_name = PLA - CubeX
; g_code_matl = 3B204D617962652073657420736F6D65206D6174657269
; 616C2D737065636966696320472D636F64653F

Thanks.
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WarrenE
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #223 on: November 22, 2013, 04:04:27 PM »
Quote
As an example from the start of an original BFB file loaded into Notepad:

^Firmware:V1.07

^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:1
^MaterialLengthE1: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 200
G21
G90

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1500 S150
M543
T0
M109 S230
M227 S2963 P148
M108 S36.3

Delete the following:

^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:1
^MaterialLengthE1: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 200

You then save the file, and print....

Bkjnky

unread,

Dec 27, 2013, 1:15:35 AM12/27/13

to kisslicer-r...@googlegroups.com

Placebo
Newbie

Posts: 13

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #224 on: November 22, 2013, 04:10:08 PM »
Quote
Thank you Warren!!

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joestefano
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Posts: 12

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #225 on: November 23, 2013, 02:43:28 PM »
Quote
Another confirmation. Firmware 1.07 No cartridges installed. Delete material lines using notepad, Save. No problem printing!!!!

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PenskeGuy
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Posts: 1264
Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #226 on: November 23, 2013, 03:25:44 PM »
Quote
Dontcha just love it when an elegant workaround is found that defeats the complex blocks that companies like they try to put up in order to force you into their business model? No doubt, once this leaks out, there will be forthcoming firmware "upgrades" that have new features that everyone wants but defeats this simple loophole; which it the actual intention.

evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #227 on: November 24, 2013, 09:47:13 AM »
Quote
This is great. Not only does KISSLICER make better prints, it also enables a complete bypass of the proprietary cartridge problem!

I'm working some test prints now and have confirmed the "puddle" issue when the default prime and suck have changed. I have also confirmed the ability to move the M227 GCODE command to a location just before the initial purge command over the waste bucket. Obviously, I will work this into the next version of CubeIt. Considering the ability to use multiple nozzles in a print (can't use a nozzle specific command as a place finder), and the associated logic implement this change, I think the best way to describe the modification (as would be implemented in code or by hand) is as follows:

- Simply find the first (and hopefully only) M227 command in the BFB file, and relocate/move it to just after the "Enter Wipe Area" command (M542) at the top of the file.

I believe the above is the simplest way to describe (and implement) the change. Any objections? Additionally, the default PURGE command we override in the CubeIt.ini file ("M55=") may need to be reduced by a factor of 10 to minimize waste if that is the appropriate multiplier. This should not effect the print quality (or program logic) though, so we can worry about that later.

So, here is my list of updates which need to be worked into CubeIt:

1. Eliminate Material Codes and Dependencies from Print File Header and Program Logic
2. Relocate the M227 (Prime/Suck Spec) to just before the initial purge command (M55X)

Anyone have any other suggestions?

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #228 on: November 25, 2013, 12:37:47 PM »
Quote
OK - Here we go... I have attached an updated version of CubeIt. Please read all of the following info before you deploy the new version. We are attempting to do as much as possible with KISSLICER and ONLY do stuff with CubeIt if it can NOT be accomplished within KISSLICER. (No need to reinvent the wheel..)

*** I have included my Materials, Styles, Printers, and Supports INI's in this distro. Please be careful not to unpack the archive on top of your existing files if you do not want to replace them! Extracting to a temp folder (and then moving the files) is recommended. I'm not done tweaking all the associated settings in these files, but the required changes are already implemented in them.

Removing the material dependencies and logic from the original CubeIt file has simplified the code greatly. This also allows us to use KISSLICER to generate unencrypted CubeX bfb print files which bypass the requirement to use expensive and problematic proprietary filament cartridges! (Even with Firmware v1.07!) With the beneficial removal of any material and nozzle dependencies, there really is no longer any need for a CubeIt user interface. The latest version is simply used as a KISSLICER Post Processor (it is called from within KISSLICER).

For those that have been following along: The only real work left for CubeIt is to relocate the Prime/Suck settings (M227) to run immediately before the associated nozzle purges (M55x) are done to the waste bin. (This needs to be done to prevent the "Puddle" issue seen by folks when modifying the default Suck/Prime setting in KISSLICER - you can find more info about this behavior a couple of messages back in this thread). CubeIt simply watches for any M542 (move to waste bin) commands, then does a quick look ahead to find the next associated M227 command and moves it up to just after the M542 command (and before the upcoming M55x command). We can do the required CubeX header prepend directly from KISSLICER (PREFIX) rather than using CubeIt. (All we need, and all we want, to prepend is the "^Firmware" setting). Similarly, we can append any optional cleanup code from KISSLICER as well (POSTFIX). CubeIt still cleans out any blank lines and comments as required - so feel free to leave them enabled for troubleshooting if you want to look back at the original print file (*.bak).

In order to use KISSLICER and CUBEIT, please do the following:

* Copy the CUBEIT.EXE and CUBEIT.INI file from the attached archive into your KISSLICER program directory.

(The CUBEIT.INI file is actually optional but allows you to override and/or augment some of the KISSLICER behavior. I don't recommend using the INI settings unless you know exactly what you are doing (the file is not even required). Its not a requirement for the operation of the program...)

You can use the _PRINTERS.INI file in the attached archive to get started. (Note that I have only 2 Extruders in my CubeX). If you wish to update your settings by hand, here are the salient (CubeX specific) settings as made through the KISSLICER user interface. I like to leave the comments and spaces in place as CubeIt will clean them up anyway. It can make reading the original source file (*.bak) a little easier. Anyway:

* Enable the CUBEIT post-processor in KISSLICER by adding the following command to the PRINTER -> FIRMWARE -> Post-Process Field:

CUBEIT.EXE "<FILE>"

* Set PRINTER -> FIRMWARE -> FIRMWARE TYPE: Bits From Bytes Printers
* Set PRINTER -> FIRMWARE -> FILE EXTENSION: bfb

* Set PTR G-CODE -> PREFIX: (Add the proprietary CubeX "^Firmware" setting)

^Firmware:V1.07
; [mm] mode
G21
; absolute mode
G90

* Set PTR G-CODE -> SELECT EXTRUDER: (Set Purge cmd (M55x) to "P600 S80" and optionally delete unused "5D style" commands)

; Select extruder, warm, purge
; BfB-style

M<EXT+1>04 S<TEMP>

M542
M55<EXT+1> P600 S80
M543

* Set PTR G-CODE -> DESELECT EXTRUDER: (Optional: Delete unused "5D Style" Commands)

; Guaranteed same extruder, cooling down
; BfB-style

M<EXT+1>04 S<TEMP>

* Set PTR G-CODE -> POSTFIX: (Optional: It was suggested to turn off all extruders and cool them down - ala CubeX native operation)

M103
M104 S0
M204 S0
M304 S0

As you save your print file (*.bfb) from KISSLICER, CubeIt will automatically run to post-process it. The original KISSLICER output file will be saved as "*.bfb.bak" and you can copy the resulting "*.bfb" file directly to your USB key, put it in the printer, select your file, and print away! (You DO NOT want to rename the *.bfb file to *.cubex!)

I have not had a chance to run extensive testing on this latest version and will be out of town for the Thanksgiving holiday (not checking email or the forum). But I wanted to get this out before I left... I have run several comparisons on the output and it looks like everything is working just fine. However, if anyone notes any issues (particularly with the "M542/M227" Logic), or has any additional suggestions for post processing, please leave a note on the forum and I'll address them when I get back next week!

Thanks to all the hard work and research folks have been doing and all the feedback and info which is being supplied. Lets keep communication flowing as we move forward with a much better (and non-proprietary) slicing solution for our printers. Figuring out what needs to be done is the tricky part but I think we are already in a really good place! I'll be happy to keep updating and enhancing CubeIt as we move forward.

Maybe now we can spend more time actually printing instead of untangling jammed printer cartridges and throwing away all those half-printed objects. Save your money, save your time, save your plastic, and get much better prints while doing it!

Have fun!
CubeIt.zip (304 kB - downloaded 68 times.)
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PenskeGuy
Hero Member

Posts: 1264
Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #229 on: November 25, 2013, 02:23:16 PM »
Quote
Good job.

One suggestion for clarity. The "...optionally delete unused "5D style" commands." in Select and Deselect might be better written to avoid misunderstanding. Yes, it is an "option" in the sense that not everyone will have to deal with them. People who hit the G-code Defaults button after having selected their BfB Firmware type and chose "Overwrite" will not have 5D codes inserted. But, it is not an "option" to take them out. If any 5D codes are there, they should be removed, because they will just screw things up.

evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #230 on: November 25, 2013, 02:34:39 PM »
Quote
I've never "deselected" them (5D Style codes). They were always in my print files. They didn't appear to cause any issues. It just appears they are ignored. Is that NOT the case? What, specifically, are they for?

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joestefano
Newbie

Posts: 12

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #231 on: November 25, 2013, 04:20:01 PM »
Quote
I just gave it a go made all the changes listed. I did not copy the other files over( printer, material, ect). I went to print, my extruder never went to the purge box and heated up, it went right to print. What did I do wrong?

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bsmith19dot98
Jr. Member

Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #232 on: November 25, 2013, 04:36:55 PM »
Quote
It turns out that the Cubex ignores the 5D commands included in the default Kisslicer setup (I thought this was kind of interesting). I also tried G2 and G3 but the program would not load (I was just messing around with stuff so I may not have created the G2 and 3 lines correctly). Since the Cubex never complained the issue never came up.

The excess commands do create a lot of clutter and can make debugging problems (like M227 for instance) more difficult. With the changes above Kisslicer is now putting out really clean Gcode (as far as I have figured out). With one exception.

The codes in the Postfix tab are not necessary for the machine for the machine to run correctly. When the firmware runs out of Gcode it parks the head, and lowers the table. I'm sure that it also stops the encoders and turns off the heaters. The Cubex Slicer includes these lines at the end of its program. I liked the idea of a nice "clean" "defined" end to the program so suggested it to Evan.

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bsmith19dot98
Jr. Member

Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #233 on: November 25, 2013, 04:38:05 PM »
Quote
Joe,

Can you post your .bfb file?

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joestefano
Newbie

Posts: 12

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #234 on: November 25, 2013, 05:01:30 PM »
Quote
I tried to modify my printer file by copy and paste. Not a good idea. I used evanevery file. Seems to work now .

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bsmith19dot98
Jr. Member

Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #235 on: November 25, 2013, 05:07:35 PM »
Quote
I just tried the new Cubeit with 2 extruders. Works correctly.

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PenskeGuy
Hero Member

Posts: 1264
Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #236 on: November 25, 2013, 09:21:07 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on November 25, 2013, 02:34:39 PM
I've never "deselected" them (5D Style codes). They were always in my print files. They didn't appear to cause any issues.

Why give it the opportunity?

Quote from: evanevery on November 25, 2013, 02:34:39 PM
It just appears they are ignored. Is that NOT the case? What, specifically, are they for?

Uhhh, non-BfB printers? If they are irrelevant, seemingly ignored or not, they should NOT be in there. May not show up now but, we're talking about BfB/3D Systems, here. In other threads, people have blithely hit the Defaults button, the BfB and 5D codes are combined and it's caused all sorts of issues, some of which were difficult to sort out until there was more information provided; not the least of which was not being able to use any extruder other than the first, due to "T0" being in there.

If it isn't necessary, especially if it isn't compatible, delete it. There isn't any point in asking for trouble. These systems are complex enough as it is, without introducing a bunch of cruft into the code that is specifically for other than BfB hardware/firmware.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 09:30:55 PM by PenskeGuy »

wildbunny
Newbie

Posts: 6

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #237 on: November 29, 2013, 11:32:58 AM »
Quote
I'm a total noob at this, so I'd really appreciate some advice. I've setup KISS and I'm trying to print the "thin wall calibration", CubeX reads it fine, starts printing the first layer OK (a little squished, still struggling with the ideal Z-offset). However, when it starts printing the second layer, the filament stops coming out of the nozzle. The print head is moving as if printing (on all 3 axes), but nothing comes out!

At first I thought that the nozzle may be jammed, but after cleaning the nozzle and repeating both the KISS sliced file and a previous one made in cube's proprietary program (later successfully printing) it is obvious that this was not a hardware issue.

Still waiting for my KSpro key, I presume that has nothing to do with my issues... ?
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wildbunny
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #238 on: November 29, 2013, 11:54:11 AM »
Quote
Ok,... maybe following someones pdf guide exactly "to the number" wasn't the greatest idea..
When I set skin thickness to >0 it prints just fine. (the instructions said 0)

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #239 on: November 29, 2013, 02:38:39 PM »
Quote
Following the directions is what should be done. For a Thin Wall, not Solid, Calibration, the Skin Thickness should be "0" to remove the bottom and top surfaces from a model that is solid and only print the vertical walls. By setting Skin Thickness to ">0" you've masked over the real problem. Just getting a positive result, by any means possible, doesn't invalidate the instructions. It indicates something else.

There are a number of things that can cause this symptom. I'm wagering temp too low or Prime/Suck improperly set. I've had instances where the nozzle would clog just by touching it with a toothpick. The extrusion is chilled just enough to impede the flow and the drive strips the filament; hosing the print until I clear it and run a manual purge to get past the stripped portion of the filament.

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bsmith19dot98
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Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #240 on: November 29, 2013, 04:14:35 PM »
Quote
Welcome to the club!

Can you post your settings?

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wildbunny
Newbie

Posts: 6

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #241 on: November 30, 2013, 05:57:48 AM »
Quote
Penske, I didn't realize you were the author of the guide. Of course; credit where it's due, good job!!

Instead of posting my settings just now, I'll do some more tweaking and report on my progress. It's funny how obviously delicate the FDM process is, and the manufacturer leaves us with a software that offers us a total of like 10 possible settings combinations.. lol

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wildbunny
Newbie

Posts: 6

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #242 on: November 30, 2013, 07:47:35 AM »
Quote
I've increased the temperature, so I'm finally getting a print after the first layer, and looks kind of ok, but I'm getting small holes on the walls, still playing with the prime/suck and flow tweaks, so far the output's pretty much the same.. It prints, but it's definitely far from perfect.

Is there a guide of some sort about the relationship between prime/suck and other parameters? The cubeX is a pain, not having a direct computer to printer connection..
I guess it's - no pain no gain..

My settings, so far:
Extrusion width: 0.4 mm
Temp.: 210/210/150
Prime: 1-0.75
Suck: 0.75
Flow tweak: 1.1 - 0.85

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wildbunny
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #243 on: November 30, 2013, 11:53:02 AM »
Quote
Everything's fine now, note to self: less posting, more tweaking!

My settings if anyone's interested:

material: PLA (white), Cube's proprietary filament (but not in its cartridge, thankfully)

prime: 0.15
suck: 0.15
flow tweak: 0.95
temperature: 220/220/150

using .inis and cubeit from evanevery's latest post (thanks a lot, it works like a charm)

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #244 on: November 30, 2013, 01:54:16 PM »
Quote
Those values look about right.

Be aware that a TW/Solid calibration pair need to be done for every material. Should be done for every new batch from the same manufacturer if you want to eliminate variance in batches. Colors can influence the parameters, so don't gloss over color variations from one manufacturer until you've proven that the variance isn't significant and can be assumed to be the same for all varieties.

Different manufacturers' filament can have a significant shift in the temperature range center. BfB ABS is relatively high at 260C, while the stock I get from ProtoParadigm centers at 230C. In all actuality, a calibration should be done for every temperature within a given material as well but, usually, once you find the center range for a given material, one calibration per stock is enough.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 02:03:44 PM by PenskeGuy »

bsmith19dot98
Jr. Member

Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #245 on: November 30, 2013, 04:44:11 PM »
Quote
Does the 3d Touch support different values for prime and suck?

The reason I ask is I don't think the Cubex does. I think the Cubex ignores any value entered for suck and applies the value specified for prime for both prime and suck.

On Wednesday I did a bunch of testing. I entered a prime of 0 and a suck of 1 and observed the results. Then I entered a Prime of 1 and a suck of 0 and observed. My observations included the resulting test cube and watching the extruder shaft (I had previously put marks on the shafts so I could see them rotate).

So far I have only tested our current use of M227. Maybe there are other commands or configurations that will allow different prime and suck (I just haven't found them yet). Before I go too far down that rabbit hole I wanted to see what the other machines do (3d touch, 3000, etc).

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #246 on: November 30, 2013, 05:34:02 PM »
Quote
Separately altering values on a 3DT does work, even though it does have a firmware destring. It doesn't surprise me that 3DSystems goes further down the path of thinking for their users. As a debugging step, try not setting either of the P/S values at "0" but, instead, a really low value greater than "0". Could be that "0" is ignored (nobody would ever set this value to "0"!) and a substitution takes place.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 06:02:08 PM by PenskeGuy »

teknbul

Newbie

Posts: 10

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #247 on: December 02, 2013, 05:17:21 AM »
Quote
Thank you very much for your great work! Without it our Cubex printer will almost unusable!

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evanevery
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Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #248 on: December 02, 2013, 08:05:36 AM »
Quote
While its nice that everyone uses the same test cube as a common foundation, certain issues may not be evident when using a single simple model.

For instance, I see much more dependence on a proper prime/suck setting when I am printing a relatively thin/narrow object with 20% infill. If prime and suck aren't properly set, the very narrow internal fill structure actually never gets implemented. By the time a low prime value catches up with a larger suck setting, the nozzle is already done with the narrow fill pattern. I'm now using 0.75/0.75 and I've eliminated the bulk of this issue but I'm still not convinced I have an optimal setting (yet)...

I'm not sure that the cube is the best model to test prime/suck due to its relative simplicity...

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #249 on: December 02, 2013, 01:59:39 PM »
Quote
It isn't. The calibration cubes are for calibrating steady flow computation, not interruptions of same. I'm not even sure that there can be a calibration test for P/S. There are too many variables in the de-string section that influence the action. Making adjustments per-print will be effective, due to these settings, but a calibration that is supposed to span all instances, like extrusion volume does, is remote.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 02:04:07 PM by PenskeGuy »

treemagnet

Newbie

Posts: 14

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #250 on: December 02, 2013, 02:37:16 PM »
Quote
all I can say ypu guys are amazing I am actually being able to use my cubex kudos to kisslicer. now quick question I set my temperature to 270 target but the read out say target 230 and temp 230 any suggestions
Tom

think I just found out the issue i have kisslicer running cubeit but it is calling up my pla settings
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 02:43:02 PM by treemagnet »

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #251 on: December 02, 2013, 02:46:19 PM »
Quote
CubeIt won't change your material temps. Make sure you are assigning the proper nozzle in your Kisslicer extruder mapping...
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treemagnet

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Posts: 14

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #252 on: December 02, 2013, 04:50:23 PM »
Quote
ok so where in the "brb" what sets the temperature or is it an m code

also is there a way of not having to enter the verification everytime you post?
Thanks
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treemagnet

Newbie

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #253 on: December 02, 2013, 05:38:17 PM »
Quote
ok so search before ask lol m104 is temp code. so I set the temperature on one print and make a test file and then do a second print with a different temp. when I compare them the M104 temps are the same and didn't change any suggestions?
Thanks
Tom

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #254 on: December 02, 2013, 06:03:38 PM »
Quote
After you post several times it will no longer ask for a verification...

The temps are set in Kisslicer. You do not need to edit anything in your print files. Make sure your Materials (ABS, PLA) are defined with the proper temps in the Kisslicer interface (Material Tab). Then specify which materials are loaded in each extruder in your printer using the Kisslicer Interface (Printer -> Extruders -> Material). Finally, be sure to map the model to the proper extruder in the Kisslicer interface (Printer -> Extruders -> Ext Map -> Object). This is all done with Kisslicer. You should not have to even open your print file...

The only reason folks are editing their print files here is for testing changes which can not (yet) be implemented either with Kisslicer or CubeIt. I don't think we have identified anything new that fits that description since our latest mods to Kisslicer settings and CubeIt ...

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #255 on: December 02, 2013, 06:07:21 PM »
Quote
Might search for "Idiots Guide". It was a student project that a few of us wrote for him/her and it covers the basics of operating KS.

bkjnky
Newbie

Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #256 on: December 02, 2013, 06:14:20 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Is anyone able to identify the thermistor used in the CubeX print heads? I am working on a custom print head (based on Jhead) but don't have the equipment to test resistance on the thermistor at specific temperatures.

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bkjnky
Newbie

Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #257 on: December 02, 2013, 06:16:19 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
BTW... Great work to all of you that took the time to troubleshoot the puddle issue!!!

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treemagnet
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Posts: 14

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #258 on: December 02, 2013, 06:19:57 PM »
Quote
great thanks

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treemagnet
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #259 on: December 02, 2013, 06:37:31 PM »
Quote
figured out my problem it's my fingers
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Tiago_Lopes

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Posts: 6

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #260 on: December 04, 2013, 07:04:19 AM »
Quote
Hi,
I'm new with the Kiss, I have cubex trio and start now with the free Kiss, I'm waitting for KSpro.
How turn on the leds? Have a MCode?

Thanks
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teknbul
Newbie

Posts: 10

Prime and Suck
« Reply #261 on: December 04, 2013, 08:03:25 AM »
Quote
Hi,

Sorry for my english, i'm French ^^

Prime and suck value of 0.75 causes a problem on a Cubex. Every time the nozzle back into the heating zone matter no longer flows properly at the beginning of the next layer. matter seems not boot. slightly pushing the filament from the cartridge that reboots. Suck function does not have to take place at this momement but only the Prime function.

I hope you have understood my English ^ ^
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 08:17:22 AM by teknbul »
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MattDub

Newbie

Posts: 6

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #262 on: December 04, 2013, 08:06:27 AM »
Quote
Thanks to all who worked out the Kisslicer issues and special thanks to evanevery for his work on CubeIt and posting settings for Kisslicer. I just set up Kisslicer yesterday and ran a part and found the puddle issue. Then applied evan's updates and it's working great now. Much improvement over Cubex Slicer. Not to mention no more POS cartridges!!!!!!

I did have an issue maybe you guys can help me out here. While printing yesterday (PLA Red) I would hear a snap/pop sound from the extruder and noticed at the same time it would put a little void in the part. Now the materail I'm using is 6-8 months old, could that be the cause? Or I was thinking maybe I have the temp set too high @ 195 main, 210 first layer, & 150 keep warm? I'm running a cubex trio @ firmware 1.07, only using 1 extruder with the kisslicer. Also I have not tried ABS.

I attached a magnified picture.

voids in PLA.JPG (43.18 kB, 641x484 - viewed 24 times.)

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #263 on: December 04, 2013, 08:39:04 AM »
Quote
I have seen (and continue to experience) the exact same issues as seen in your model. I have been experimenting with prime/suck settings to see if this helps (currently at 0.75/0.75). My hopes in posting the text list of settings (a bunch of messages back) was that we could all agree on the salient setting so we could then move forward discussing the actual individual settings that folks were using. Distributing INI files may be useful, but for discussion, the parameters need to addressed individually. Additionally, I'm not making any claims that the settings I have posted, and the INI's that I have provided, are the optimum config.

I also get random voids in my models (I'm using abs) and I'm curious what might cause this and what settings folks are using who do not experience this...

Does anybody have a list of real good set of settings (for both ABS and PLA) which they believe provides optimum printing? If so, how does that compare to the list that I posted a ways back?
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AeroJack

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #264 on: December 04, 2013, 09:23:04 AM »
Quote
First off, thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread, particularly PenskeGuy and evanevery. The difference between using the CubeX slicer and KS is night and day.

I have been looking at this layer gap issue for the last few days using a thin wall calibration printing in CubeX PLA (blue) at 195C main and 210C first layer. I can eliminate the gaps by changing the speed at which the layers print. The print speed appears to need to be 40 mm/sec to print without gaps. Print the same thin wall cal at 30 mm/sec and there will be gaps, 40 no gaps.

Today I repeated this at 215C main and 230C 1st layer and got the same results.

I looked at some of the files that were done with the CubeX slicer. When the extruder is off, the print head moves at 500 mm/s. If the file was written as a "Fast Draft," the print head moves at a maximum speed of 66 mm/s with the extruder on. If the file was written as a "standard" print (with fine detail selected), the print head moves at a maximum speed of 38.3 mm/s with the extruder on.

This is all for a layer height of 0.25 mm.

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Tiago_Lopes

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #265 on: December 04, 2013, 09:42:48 AM »
Quote
Quote
"I looked at some of the files that were done with the CubeX slicer."
HI,

How you open the cubex files?

Thanks
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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #266 on: December 04, 2013, 09:43:22 AM »
Quote
Are you saying that printing FASTER (or equal to) than 40 mm/sec will eliminate the gaps? This seems counter intuitive...

I expect this means we will need to tweak the settings on the Kisslicer Printer -> Speed page. My (default) settings have "Fast" = 20/30/30 and "Precise" = 10/15/30.

Does anyone have any other (better) settings which will allow full use of the Fast/Precise slider without compromising print integrity?
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Tiago_Lopes

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #267 on: December 04, 2013, 09:48:11 AM »
Quote
Quote
oes anyone have any other (better) settings which will allow full use of the Fast/Precise slider without compromising print integrity?

HI,

I have in fast 20/35/30

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #268 on: December 04, 2013, 10:01:42 AM »
Quote
If we really need to be printing at speeds between about 40 and 60 mm/sec, then perhaps the following settings might be optimal:

Fast = 60/60/60
Precise = 40/40/40

I suppose we could run the infill's a little faster in the Precise mode, but we are already well above the speeds in the default configurations. Maybe a simple, across-the-board, speed setting for each group will work fine.

It might also be appropriate to change the X,Y Travel speed to 500 (per AeroJack's observation)...

Additionally, maybe we also need to adjust the first layer Max speed to 40 to meet these minimums.

Comments? I'm not currently anywhere near my equipment or I'ld simply run another test.
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Tiago_Lopes

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #269 on: December 04, 2013, 10:07:20 AM »
Quote

Depends on the type of part you wish to make ... but I think it is very fast, and thou shalt have problems, will have an identical print of Cubex software
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Bkjnky

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AeroJack
Newbie

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #270 on: December 04, 2013, 10:14:27 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Tiago_Lopes on December 04, 2013, 09:42:48 AM
Quote

"I looked at some of the files that were done with the CubeX slicer."
HI,

How you open the cubex files?

Thanks

The .cubex files are encrypted and I do not know how to read them. However, there should be a corresponding .bfb file that is readable. That is what I looked at.

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AeroJack
Newbie

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #271 on: December 04, 2013, 10:19:41 AM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 04, 2013, 09:43:22 AM

Are you saying that printing FASTER (or equal to) than 40 mm/sec will eliminate the gaps? This seems counter intuitive...

I expect this means we will need to tweak the settings on the Kisslicer Printer -> Speed page. My (default) settings have "Fast" = 20/30/30 and "Precise" = 10/15/30.

Does anyone have any other (better) settings which will allow full use of the Fast/Precise slider without compromising print integrity?

Yes that is exactly what I am saying and I agree that it is counter intuitive.

It could be particular to a thin wall calibration style print where only the perimeter speed is used. Or it could be particular to my machine.

Where did the original speed values come from?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 01:05:39 PM by AeroJack »

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #272 on: December 04, 2013, 10:24:58 AM »
Quote
I simply started with the default Kisslicer "sample printer" settings and have been updating them as we find changes appropriate for the CubeX.

If faster printing solves these problems then thats certainly a win-win situation. Even better prints in much less time!

I think we just need to establish the baseline print speed settings for the CubeX printer. It seems you have provided info which puts us well on our way. Thanks!
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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #273 on: December 04, 2013, 11:18:01 AM »
Quote
Cubex Slicer (CS) normally outputs an encrypted .cubex file. However v1.07 of CS has a bug which outputs a text readable .bfb file. Version 1.08 (the current version) "fixes" this bug.

In CS v1.07 setup the part as usual. Click "Build". A .bfb file is created in the same directory as the part file.

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #274 on: December 04, 2013, 11:28:20 AM »
Quote
Can someone please post a very simple CubeX print file generated with 1.08. (Yes, I know its encrypted) I want to compare the binary output with something from 1.07 (before I update anything)...

Also, Is there a corresponding 1.08 firmware update also available? Is anyone using this? If so, can we get a solid confirmation that we can update to 1.08 firmware and still use text based bfb files and non-proprietary filament?

It would be good to know this before I, or anyone else, tries an upgrade...
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e-marc
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CUBEX / KisSlicer / CubeIt
« Reply #275 on: December 04, 2013, 11:48:31 AM »
Quote
@evanevery, and all the other 3d print masters here:

THANK YOU SO MUCH

for all yor great work you did! I've tried to print w/o the original cartridges installed in their bays: works great! no puddle anymore!
... and so much better than the original trashware.

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #276 on: December 04, 2013, 12:03:34 PM »
Quote
In looking at a 1.07 BFB file, I am seeing many of the print commands with an "F1000.0" speed parameter. This would indicate print speeds as low as about 17 mm/sec (1000 mm/min / 60 = 16.77 mm/sec) in "Normal" (not draft) mode....

I also see many print commands with an "F2300.0" parameter that would equate to print speeds as high as 38 mm/sec.

So it seems the native CS prints between 17-38 mm/sec in "normal" mode...

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MattDub
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #277 on: December 04, 2013, 12:57:20 PM »
Quote
Thanks all. @evanevery....I'm not trying to discredit the settings you posted, I understand these are baseline settings. No worries. I just had not seen any discussion on this so I was thinking it was just me. But it sounds like a lot of you are finding the same issue. I did try ABS and found the same issue....actually it was worse than the PLA.

I bumped up the speeds to 30/40/40 and am printing now in PLA. I would've never thought this was a speed issue but I guess we'll see.

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #278 on: December 04, 2013, 01:05:56 PM »
Quote
No worries, that's not my perspective at all! I just want to make that folks DONT think the setting I've posted are optimized - just mostly functional. I really do want folks to provide more info so we can all work together to establish a good working baseline for our printers.

It looks like, although 1.08 is the newest SOFTWARE, 1.07 is still the current FIRMWARE: http://cubex3dprinting.blogspot.com/2013/11/new-software-version-108.html

Hopefully, Cubify won't slam the door on us with 1.08! (No one in their right mind would update if that was the case...)
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PenskeGuy
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Gaps on Slow Feed Rate
« Reply #279 on: December 04, 2013, 01:37:27 PM »
Quote
Quote from: AeroJack on December 04, 2013, 09:23:04 AM

The print speed appears to need to be 40 mm/sec to print without gaps. Print the same thin wall cal at 30 mm/sec and there will be gaps, 40 no gaps.

Yes, it seems counterintuitive at first. Don't change the Fast/Slow speed values themselves. They're probably fine. Changing them may "cure" the problem but probably isn't the real problem.

KISSlicer calculates the required volumetric flow rate for a given path, then computes the extruder RPM, and if it falls outside the min/max limits, it will then change the head speed to make sure the RPM is within the functional range.

Make adjustments to your Material > Flow Adjust > Min [mm^3/s] value. Try a really low value at first to see what happens. There will be a value below which the extruder flow rate will not be uniform, so 0 is not an ideal value. On my 3DT, 0.15 seems about right. There are finite limits for each material in both Min and Max and there are limits within each of those. IOW, you can set the Min value too low and you can set the Min value too high.

Note, also, that Min Layer Time can screw this up if the feed rate drops lower than the Min mm^3/s calculates, due to a layer falling below that minimum time limit.

Temperature will be a deciding factor on Max. It tales higher and higher temperatures to be able to push a viscous fluid through a small hole at greater speeds. The less viscous (thinner) it is, the easier to flow through small orifices. Go too high in temp and you get ooze. Like everything, there are limits. You just have to experiment to learn what they are for your printer and materials.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 02:45:14 PM by PenskeGuy »

PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #280 on: December 04, 2013, 01:43:00 PM »
Quote
Quote from: MattDub on December 04, 2013, 08:06:27 AM

While printing yesterday (PLA Red) I would hear a snap/pop sound from the extruder and noticed at the same time it would put a little void in the part. Now the materail I'm using is 6-8 months old, could that be the cause?

Moisture in the material boils and explosively exits the nozzle. PLA is hygroscopic and must be kept in sealed containers with desiccant and/or dried in a dehydrator prior to printing.

evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #281 on: December 04, 2013, 01:47:15 PM »
Quote
I'm running almost exclusively with ABS and I see the issue with random voids as well...
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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #282 on: December 04, 2013, 01:55:45 PM »
Quote
Voids don't always have to do with moisture.

evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #283 on: December 04, 2013, 02:28:54 PM »
Quote
Particularly since AeroJack's posting where he said he was able to remedy this issue by increasing the print speed...
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e-marc

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #284 on: December 04, 2013, 03:00:32 PM »
Quote
I have an issue with a small part were at the beginning of each track there is a gap. Observing the printer a while I got the imression that it is starving. So I changed the prime/suck from 0.06/0.05 (M227 S148 P178) to the values suggested by evanevery: 0.75/0.75 (M227 S2222 P2222).

However, this did not solve the problem.

I've tried a lot and ended up with M227 S0 P2222. Still not solving the problem:

^Firmware:V1.07
G21
G90
M204 S265
M542
M227 S0 P2222
M552 P600 S80
M543

The whole time I had the impression that by changing the prime value I adjusted the prime and suck process at the same time but never changed the difference between them.
This was confirmed by the look at the injection steppers axle: it is doing definitely a suck without a suck adjusted (suck=0.00)

does anyone have an idea what I'm doing wrong?

Thanx!

Bkjnky

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #285 on: December 04, 2013, 05:05:01 PM »
Quote
E-Marc,

You're not doing anything wrong. See this post where I noticed the same thing.
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7325#msg7325
I'm actually glad that you are seeing the same thing that I am.

I did some more testing yesterday, and I am convinced that the Cubex firmware does not support different parameters for prime and suck. The firmware reads the prime value from M227 and applies that to both prime and suck.

I tried Penske's suggestion of using a non-zero values.

I tried moving the M227 "back where it belongs". I tried large prime low suck, and low prime large suck. My observations included the resulting part and watching the extruder shaft. I did this until I started to get a little motion sick and decided that was a good time to quit.

Cubex Slicer (CS) includes an M228 with its output. I tried that, with different values and I can't figure out that it does anything. Which makes me curious why they put it in there.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #286 on: December 04, 2013, 09:12:57 PM »
Quote
Like I said earlier, M228 DISABLES M227.

bkjnky
Newbie

Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #287 on: December 04, 2013, 11:51:53 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove

I have been testing thin wall calibration on a 50x50x5 cube with Matter Hackers 1.75 neon green PLA. I kept getting the gaps for about 10mm after every new layer start and then it would smooth out for the remainder of the layer.

I took Penske's advice and looked at the Min [MM^3.s]. I ran this up clear to 6. This gradually condensed the gaps to the first 2mm to 3mm at the beginning of each layer with the rest smoothing out. I think this setting has something to do with the issue, and the default was .01 which I think is way too low, but I don't think this is the whole issue.

Next I removed the [M551 P600 S80] command all together. As expected, this resulted in no purge at the waste bucket, and the usual puddle at the start of the print, but I noticed that there was not a the puddle on each subsequent layer, and the gaps were gone at the beginning of each layer. When I added [M551 P600 S80] back in, no puddle, but gaps returned.

I started looking at all my test prints and I think I see a pattern. Most of my gaps are at or near layer starts, and shortly after moves, and especially after areas where small supports are being laid. In other words, gaps are appearing shortly after the M103 is executed.

Next, I removed all [M103] from the thin wall calibration print (I left [M551 P600 S80] in). This also resulted in no gaps, but it did leave a pretty fat starting corner because no suck was happening at the start of the layer.

So after all that, I decided to draw a tiny red line on the extruder shaft so I could watch how it moved at the start of a new layer in the thin wall calibration print. Sure enough, to confirm e-mark's finding:

Quote from: e-marc on December 04, 2013, 03:00:32 PM

The whole time I had the impression that by changing the prime value I adjusted the prime and suck process at the same time but never changed the difference between them.
This was confirmed by the look at the injection steppers axle: it is doing definitely a suck without a suck adjusted (suck=0.00)

the suck is happening, but to my eye, the prime does not appear to be returning all the way to the starting point of the suck. So here is my theory:

M227, M551, and M228 ARE all connected in the cubeX firmware, as parameters for M101 and M103.

To test this I first printed the thin wall calibration cube as output by cubit (wipe disabled).

Heres the beginning of the code which resulted in gaps at the beginning 10 to 20 mm of each layer.

^Firmware:V1.07

G21
G90
M104 S200
M542

M227 S222 P593
M228 P0 S222
M551 P600 S80
M543
M108 S10.8
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.5 F12000
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.25 F210
M101
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.41 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-47.55 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.57 Y78.06 Z0.25 F896.7
M103

The Third test print I made this change, resulting in the prime returning to what appeared to be the initial point at which the suck began and the print only had 7 very tiny gaps, none of which were at the be beginning of a layer.

^Firmware:V1.07

G21
G90
M104 S200
M542

M227 S222 P593
M551 P600 S80
M543
M108 S10.8
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.5 F12000
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.25 F210
M101
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.41 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-47.55 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.57 Y78.06 Z0.25 F896.7
M228 P0 S222
M103

Is there any reason why placement would make a difference? (M228 after M227 but before M551 vs. placing M228 directly after M551 vs. M228 before the first M103...)

I set my printer loose on a mendel foot 90 minutes ago and so far it's the cleanest print I've gotten. I can see <10 pin point size gaps with no regularity in placement.

I've attached my test files. The BAK file has my settings in case anyone wants to have a look as a starting point

50x50x5.stl (3.28 kB - downloaded 3 times.)
50x50x5.bfb (6.85 kB - downloaded 4 times.)
50x50x5.bfb.bak (15.86 kB - downloaded 4 times.)
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teknbul
Newbie

Posts: 10

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #288 on: December 05, 2013, 12:57:31 AM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 04, 2013, 11:28:20 AM

Can someone please post a very simple CubeX print file generated with 1.08. (Yes, I know its encrypted) I want to compare the binary output with something from 1.07 (before I update anything)...

Also, Is there a corresponding 1.08 firmware update also available? Is anyone using this? If so, can we get a solid confirmation that we can update to 1.08 firmware and still use text based bfb files and non-proprietary filament?

It would be good to know this before I, or anyone else, tries an upgrade...

Hi,

attached a simple cube in cubex file if it can be useful.

I got the following error message in cubex :

"Errore loading gcode"

hello,

I wondered why EvanEvery put to 0.38 in the diameter of the "solid infiltration - 0.10 layer" style?
There is probably a good reason or should I put 0.5

cordially

Bye

Cubex 1.08.cubex (38.32 kB - downloaded 3 times.)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 01:42:09 AM by teknbul »

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #289 on: December 05, 2013, 06:23:40 AM »
Quote
Penske,

You are correct that M228 would normally disable M227. However that is not the case on the Cubex.

Bkjnky,

Placement is everything! Thanks for looking at the minimum flow rate. I've been having the same problem with the thin starts since I switched to the 0.5 extrusion width. Are you still running the stock electronics and firmware?

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #290 on: December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM »
Quote
It seems we have some very good investigations underway! Once we figure out the required logic for M227/M228 placement, I will be happy to implement that change in CubeIT.

Right now, I am fighting with the same problem that MattDub is seeing: Random Voids

I have successfully updated my printer speeds to Fast= 30/58/66 and Precise=17/28/38, XYTravel=500, 1st layer max speed=28 based on what I have seen in two native CS BFB files ("draft" and "normal" prints). The good news is that it appears these significantly faster speeds work just fine. The bad news is that it didn't solve my issue with random voids in the print. Until I get these random voids eliminated, there would be little point in trying to optimize any other settings as this issue will mask the effects of other parameter changes.

I know MattDub is seeing these, but if anyone else is also having this issue it would be great to see what helps resolve it. You can hear the nozzle "pop" when it spits a void, but I'm not sure what the root cause is. It has been seen with both PLA and ABS. Here are a few things I am going to research to see if they might be related to the problem. If anyone has any other suggestions, please let us know:

1. The extruder emits an audible pop when it generates a void. You can hear it if you listen closely. Sounds just like when you are using the last of the caulk in a caulking gun and you hit an air pocket. There doesn't seem to be any pattern in the appearance of the voids. They appear to be randomly generated within long continuous print commands (not at the start or end of a command). I'm wondering if the popping we are hearing might actually be the extruder slipping on the filament. The POS CubeX cartridges have jammed and snapped so many times, I'm wondering if there is debris left on the teeth/gears of the extruder which may need to be cleaned off. Maybe this "popping" is not coming from the melted filament at all, maybe it is the extruder slipping on the filament. I have two extruders in my machine (one with PLA and one with ABS). I am going to move the ABS over to the other (much less used) extruder and see if the problem continues. This might at least help isolate a problem with a specific extruder. Maybe it just needs to be disassembled and cleaned?

2. CubeX makes horrible cartridges. Maybe their filament is junk as well. So I can also try some off the shelf filament to see if it makes any difference.

3. I wonder if it also might be manageable by trying different temps. I'm using 255/265/150 for ABS. Maybe if I reduce them a bit. What are other folks using for ABS?

Anyone have any other ideas? Anything else to try? Suggestions?

Thanks...

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MattDub
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Posts: 6

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #291 on: December 05, 2013, 07:09:31 AM »
Quote
I speed change made it better but didn't resolve the issue. I'll try messing with the Min [MM^3.s] as Penske suggested and run some prints. Thanks all!

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #292 on: December 05, 2013, 07:13:55 AM »
Quote
BJINKY - Are the gaps you are seeing the same type issue that MattDub has in the photo he posted a while back? I wonder if these two issues might be related (or the same)...

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #293 on: December 05, 2013, 07:18:02 AM »
Quote
I don't know if anyone will find this of value but here is a link to a web page that has a pretty concise listing of the GCodes we are talking about: http://fabmetheus.crsndoo.com/wiki/index.php/G-Code. (Many of the other pages I've found don't mention some of the GCodes we are using with our printers)

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teknbul
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Posts: 10

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #294 on: December 05, 2013, 07:23:07 AM »
Quote
Hi Evenevry,

I also heard a pop and i have the same issue since the last verions of Cubeit.

I will try with second last version

Bye

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evanevery
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Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #295 on: December 05, 2013, 07:25:47 AM »
Quote
Quote from: teknbul on December 05, 2013, 12:57:31 AM

I wondered why EvanEvery put to 0.38 in the diameter of the "solid infiltration - 0.10 layer" style?
There is probably a good reason or should I put 0.5

Someone suggested (quite a ways back in this thread) that 0.5 was probably too high a setting and 0.38 was suggested. Most of what I've put in my settings is simply based on observations and suggestions by other users folks in this thread. I still think I'm pushing a slightly more material than I need to be, but until I get the "random voids" issue resolved, there is not much point in trying to examine any other adjustments...

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #296 on: December 05, 2013, 07:28:17 AM »
Quote
I'm fairly certain the Random Void issue (popping) has nothing to do with CubeIt. I had that issue even before we posted the last version. It could have something to do with the settings that were posted at the same time though... Are you using the INI files that I posted along with CubeIt? Maybe something is out of whack there (temps?)...

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #297 on: December 05, 2013, 07:46:09 AM »
Quote
FYI - I'm looking at a Native CS BFB file and it looks like it is using a first layer temp of 280 and a main temp of 262 for ABS. When printed for PLA the native temps are 250/205.

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #298 on: December 05, 2013, 07:50:13 AM »
Quote
...Additionally (sorry for the multiple postings)...

It looks like the native CS print files always have an M228 immediately following an M227. In the file I'm currently looking at:

M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73

It looks like these are always dropped into the print files as a pair (never one without the other and both together)

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teknbul
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #299 on: December 05, 2013, 07:57:46 AM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:46:09 AM
FYI - I'm looking at a Native CS BFB file and it looks like it is using a first layer temp of 280 and a main temp of 262 for ABS. When printed for PLA the native temps are 250/205.

seems to me very much because in my testing more than 265 ? C starts to burn ABS

for the rest :

default when the printer first and second layer is purged several centimeter plastic falls into the drip tray.
Now it seems to me that there is no purge.
May be that this causes bubbles in the extruder

Bkjnky

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #300 on: December 05, 2013, 08:07:36 AM »
Quote
I have also noted that the initial purge is very small. I think this will be easy to adjust. However, I do not think this is the main problem with the Random Voids. I printed a part last night that ran for about 1-1/2 hours (at the higher speeds) and the random voids appear all through the product (well past the initial part of the filament).
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bkjnky
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Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #301 on: December 05, 2013, 10:00:23 AM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:13:55 AM

BJINKY - Are the gaps you are seeing the same type issue that MattDub has in the photo he posted a while back? I wonder if these two issues might be related (or the same)...

Yes I was seeing the random voids as well, but if you watch the print and listen for the popping noise you will likely see that they are not so random as they usually occur shortly after a jump (M103) where prime& suck would be initiated.

I haven't tried an M228 P0 SXXX where SXXX was a different value than the corresponding M227 P value. That might be a good place to look for a ratio.

Also I thing the cubify bfb files are possibly set up for a different extruder type, maybe the actal bfb printer.

Btw the Mendel foot that I printer last night including the M228 was almost flawless with less than ten pin point size gaps on the outer wall.

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #302 on: December 05, 2013, 10:14:40 AM »
Quote
The M227 and M228 commands I posted a few messages back:

M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73

are the actual commands that the native CS slicer is sending to the CubeX (see prior message). These are specifically for the CubeX and not the generic BFB printer...

We should be able to use the BFB file left behind by the Native CubeX Slicer (v1.07) to help determine what the firmware in the CubeX is expecting. There appears to be at least a few GCodes which are being used in a non-standard way. (I've seen M104 commands with an extra parameter "M104 S205 P1" and the M228 command also appears to have extra parameters...)

Once we figure out the details of any "special" logic that needs to be incorporated, I'll add it to the CubeIt post-processor. Of course, we first need to confirm what needs to be done by editing the files by hand and then running some tests....

If anyone still has the distribution/installer for the v1.07 software, it might be handy to post it so other folks can download and examine the BFB output file...

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #303 on: December 05, 2013, 11:45:04 AM »
Quote
I've generated a simple native BFB file using the CS slicer. I only see two areas where there is any significant changes to the settings we are looking at (M227, M228). It appears these two areas correspond to the initial definition for the "first layer" and then a single definition for "all other layers".

Here is a snapshot of the "First Layer" codes seen at the top of the file (with GCode comments I have added):

M104 S280 P1 (Set Ext1 Temp)
M542 (Enter Wipe Area)
M104 S280 (Set Ext1 Temp)
M551 P99 S150.000 (Prime/Purge Ext1)
M227 P99 S201 (Set Prime/Suck)
M228 P0 S73 (Disable Prime/Suck)
M543 (Exit Wipe Area)
M108 S24.0 (Set Extruder Speed)

Here is a snapshot of the second settings region which appears to be associated with the rest of the print:

M103 (All Extruders Off)
M542 (Enter Wipe Area)
M104 S262 (Set Ext1 Temp)
M106 P0 (Fan On)
M227 P99 S201 (Set Prime/Suck)
M228 P0 S73 (Disable Prime/Suck)
M551 P2499 S150.000 (Prime/Purge Ext1)
M107 (Fan Off)
M543 (Exit Wipe Area)
M108 S35.0 (Set Extruder Speed)

Here are my observations about the above GCode extracts:

1. CS only appears to do these settings twice - once for the initial layer(s) and then once more for the rest of the print
2. Prime and Suck settings (M227 and M228) are always done as a pair, in the same order, and with the same values
3. M228 commands appear to have some extra/proprietary parameters which are not generally implemented by other printers
3. These two regions are the only places in the file I see any temperature setting changes (M104) for the extruder(s)
4. Extruder Flow Rate settings/changes (M108), However, are seen sprinkled throughout the file
5. It seems nozzle purges (M551) to the wipe area (M552) are always done at these times as well

If the above is true, the CS slicer seems to incorporate M227/M228/M104/M551/M552 into a logical block operation. It looks like any time one of these commands appear in the file, you will see the rest of them in the same block.

As we examine the BFB print files produced by the CS app, its very important to understand we are NOT trying to completely replicate the output of the CS app. We already know the Kisslicer will give us better prints. To duplicate the CS behavior would be pointless. What we need to do is identify the stuff which is important, understand how to implement it, and then throw the rest away.

I think the only important thing here may be the M227, M228 and possibly the M551 commands. Specifically the fact that they appear to be implemented in a non-standard fashion. I'm pretty sure, we are going to have to implement the M227 and M228 commands as a pair and likely with the same values we are seeing in the native output. In viewing print files sent to Ext2, the M227/M228 commands do not change. However, when printing with PLA, not only are the M227 and M228 commands significantly different, but also the M551 (purge) command:

ABS Print:

"First Layers" ABS
----------------------
M551 P99 S150.000

M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73

"Remaining Layers" ABS
---------------------------

M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73

M551 P2499 S150.000

PLA PRINT:

"First Layers" PLA
----------------------
M551 P163 S80.000
M227 P163 S230
M228 P0 S163

"Remaining Layers" PLA
---------------------------
M227 P163 S230
M228 P0 S163
M551 P6000 S80.000

For both the ABS and PLA prints, the relationship between the M551 (purge) command and the M227/M228 (prime/suck) settings changes. For the initial purge, it precedes the settings. For the secondary purge, it comes after the settings. Note that the M551 parameters also change based on its placement wrt to the M227/M228 block (before or after).

I'm still looking at the native Kisslicer output as well. It also appears to only use the M227 and M551 commands twice (first layer and remaining layers) - so that is good. Kisslicer does not use M228. I think it should be relatively easy for Cubeit to simply find the M227/M551 blocks in a Kisslicer print file, rearrange them a bit, and drop in an M228 as needed. Its likely I will also need to trap the corresponding M104 (temp) command to determine if we are working with PLA or ABS (as the M551/M227/M228 parameters change)...

However, we should be able to manually post-process our files to implement these blocks as needed. Lets first try and implement them by hand and see what happens... Please help us test these and report your findings...

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teknbul
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #304 on: December 05, 2013, 12:44:22 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 10:14:40 AM
The M227 and M228 commands I posted a few messages back:

M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #305 on: December 05, 2013, 01:54:23 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:50:13 AM

It looks like the native CS print files always have an M228 immediately following an M227. In the file I'm currently looking at:

M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73

It looks like these are always dropped into the print files as a pair (never one without the other and both together)

Which doesn't make any sense. Additionally, M228 doesn't have any P/S parameters. Of course, we're talking about a BfB machine that the brainacs at 3D Systems Borged and then tried to make it "better". As said earlier, if they are going to use proprietary firmware that uses unique codes, at least use numbers that haven't long been used in mainstream slicing.

PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #306 on: December 05, 2013, 02:21:55 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM

1. The extruder emits an audible pop when it generates a void. You can hear it if you listen closely. Sounds just like when you are using the last of the caulk in a caulking gun and you hit an air pocket. There doesn't seem to be any pattern in the appearance of the voids. They appear to be randomly generated within long continuous print commands (not at the start or end of a command). I'm wondering if the popping we are hearing might actually be the extruder slipping on the filament.

Slipping on the filament (stripping) can be detected by holding the filament as it prints. You'll be able to feel it. However, slipping on the filament won't cause a corresponding, immediate gap in the print. The two are effectively disconnected by the melt. Pressure builds up in the nozzle as a natural action during a print. This is the reason for Prime and Suck and why Bowden cable extruders need way more P/S, because the inherent slop in a push/pull cable will not restore the pressure quickly enough unless you overdrive the Prime. The reported gaps at layer start sure sound like what you get with a Bowden not set correctly.

But, that doesn't address the popping. You can narrow down whether it is explosive gas exiting the nozzle by listening through a tube that is directed at the nozzle.

Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM

2. CubeX makes horrible cartridges. Maybe their filament is junk as well.

Has been shown to be the case. The PLA I got with the 3DT exhibited the well known "Snapping Issue"; breaking into 1"-3" pieces inside the feed tube overnight. Fun to get out. After the second day of that, no more BfB PLA goes in my machine. The ABS was ok in that regard but was harder, requiring the higher temperature.

Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM

So I can also try some off the shelf filament to see if it makes any difference.

I thought that was the point of doing away with the cartridges.

Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM

3. I wonder if it also might be manageable by trying different temps. I'm using 255/265/150 for ABS. Maybe if I reduce them a bit. What are other folks using for ABS?

BfB ABS was 260C. The stock I get from ProtoParadigm runs cooler. Good results between 225C-250C. But, if it is escaping heated gas, dropping the temp by 10C-35C won't do much. 225C is still 125C above boiling. Be aware that ABS, nylon and polycarbonate are also hygroscopic, just not to the degree that PLA is. If moisture has been absorbed, it will boil and rapidly expand. That you are getting gaps in long paths, not necessarily at layer start--which would indicate Prime/Suck, points to this.

evanevery
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Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #307 on: December 05, 2013, 02:30:31 PM »
Quote
I have an updated version of CubeIt prepared which will automatically insert one of the 4 Prime/Suck/Purge (PSP) Blocks identified below whenever it sees an M55x command. The four blocks I have are as follows (user configurable in CubeIt.INI):

; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for First layers of ABS
[PSPBlock ABS First]
Line1=M55x P99 S150.000
Line2=M227 P99 S201
Line3=M228 P0 S73

; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for Remaining layers of ABS
[PSPBlock ABS Rest]
Line1=M227 P99 S201
Line2=M228 P0 S73
Line3=M55x P2499 S150.000

; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for FIRST layers of PLA
[PSPBlock PLA First]
Line1=M55x P163 S80.000
Line2=M227 P163 S230
Line3=M228 P0 S163

; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for Remaining layers of PLA
[PSPBlock PLA Rest]
Line1=M227 P163 S230
Line2=M228 P0 S163
Line3=M55x P6000 S80.000

CubeIt is watching for M104, M204, and M304 commands to trap the last temperature setting so we can determine if the associated "PSP Block" wshould be for ABS or PLA. There is a user configurable threshold setting in the INI (PLA_ABS_Threshold=230) that basically says if the last seen temp set (M104,M204,M304) is below that number then we are working with PLA - above would be ABS. Additionally I am keeping track of the number of times a temp is set for each extruder so we can determine if the associated PSP replacement is for a "First Layer" or the "Remaining Layers".

The above values were all obtained from native CS BFB files but they can be tweaked in the INI. I think this logic is pretty solid. I am going to test it tonight. I'm not sure how this will effect the "puddle" issue we resolved with the current release of CubeIt so I want to run a test print first.

Hopefully, we'll have a new CubeIt version by tomorrow. Cross your fingers...

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evanevery
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Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #308 on: December 05, 2013, 02:38:57 PM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 05, 2013, 02:21:55 PM

Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM

So I can also try some off the shelf filament to see if it makes any difference.

I thought that was the point of doing away with the cartridges.

I've already got a considerable amount of the BFB filament to work through. (I have some new generic stuff as well). Right now, I'm just pulling the cardboard spools out of the BFB Cartridges and hanging them so they don't bind up anymore. Might as well use the BFB filament I have on hand as long as removing it from the cartridges keep it from binding... (...and as long as it works OK)

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #309 on: December 05, 2013, 03:16:23 PM »
Quote
Ah. Then swapping in the open market filament will tell you something.

evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #310 on: December 05, 2013, 06:21:51 PM »
Quote
I've just run a couple of prints with the new version of CubeIt and it appears to resolve the issue with "Random Gaps". I'm not exactly sure, but by using the same Prime/Suck/Purge (PSP) group codes as the native version of the CS slicer the problems seem to go away. These are the best prints I've seen so far. (I'm using the same extruder and filament as always so the only thing I have changed is the update to CubeIt.

The attached archive also contains my INI files for Kisslicer. Be careful where you extract it if you do not want to overwrite your own INI files. Once again, I'm not making any claims that all my settings are optimal, but I'm providing these files as a quick start for folks who want to jump right in with the CubeX and kind of be at the same place most of the rest of us are. My INI files do have the updated/faster print speeds incorporated which decrease the printing time dramatically with no apparent detriment to quality.

As I alluded to in an earlier post, CubeIt has been rewritten to now automatically swap in one of four groups of Prime/Suck settings and a Purge command whenever it locates a purge Command in the Kisslicer output. Take a look at the new CubeIt.INI file and you will see the 4 "PSP" (Prime/Suck/Purge) groups in the settings. There are 2 groups for ABS and 2 groups for PLA. The first of each of these groups is used for first layer M55x (purge commands), and the second is used for all the remaining ones. These four PSP groups emulate what is being done by the native CS slicer. These PSP groups appear in both the CS and KS output files whenever an extruder temp is changed. CubeIt keeps track of the last extruder temp setting it sees so we can determine what type of material is currently being extruded. A Threshold temp can be set in the INI (default=230) to help determine which material (ABS/PLA) is being printed. Any temps below 230 are assumed to be for PLA, anything above indicates ABS. CubeIt also counts the number of times the temp is set for each extruder. CubeIt will select the "First" PSP group for the associated material for the first time each extruder gets a temp setting. The "Rest" group will be selected for all the remainder. By tracking temps, and extruder settings, CubeIt will automatically know which one of the 4 groups to insert into the print file any time it sees an "M55x" purge command.

The ABS/PLA Threshold temp is user configurable in the INI file. Also, you can easily change any of the PSP command blocks to be inserted by adding/deleting lines in the associated group or modifying their values.

So CubeIt watches the M104/M204/M304 and tracks those temps. It also watches for any M551/M552/M553 commands. When it sees an M55x command, it simply selects the PSP appropriate group to be inserted in its place. The original M55x command is discarded (There is a new M55x in each PSP group). Also, any M227 commands which follow later in the file is also discarded (a new M227 command is also included in each PSP Group).

Please take a look at the INI file. It should be pretty self explanatory. The default values in my CubeIt.ini file are working very well for me. No more random gaps, no puddles, etc. I think its a pretty good place to start tweaking again...

As usual, CubeIt.exe and CubeIt.ini need to be copied into your Kisslicer program directory and CubeIt needs to be identified as a post-processor for Kisslicer. There is a bunch of info in this thread at my last posting which explains this in more detail.

Please make some test prints and let us know how this new version of CubeIt is working for you. (Particularly if you had been seeing random gaps and they are now gone...)

There obviously is some non-standard behavior/functionality for the M227/M228 pairs. Perhaps this is one of the solutions we have been digging for...

Comments and suggestions are always appreciated.

Here you go...
CubeIt.zip (306.41 kB - downloaded 46 times.)
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1looooopy1
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Posts: 34

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #311 on: December 05, 2013, 07:46:05 PM »
Quote
Hello,
Does anybody have the CubeX software version 1.07 zip file, and can post it somewhere to download?

thank you much
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bkjnky
Newbie

Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #312 on: December 05, 2013, 08:38:06 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on December 05, 2013, 07:46:05 PM
Hello,
Does anybody have the CubeX software version 1.07 zip file, and can post it somewhere to download?

thank you much

I've got the ZIP file, but no where to post it. Its 53MB anyone got a place to post the file to?

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #313 on: December 05, 2013, 09:09:39 PM »
Quote
Thinking further about the "popping" issue, looking for alternatives, if the Prime/Suck values were somehow being messed with by the CubeX proprietary firmware/g-code insertions that don't make any sense, the extruder could be made to be void of material--completely starved.

The main difference between a 3DT and a CubeX is the extruder drive mechanism. The CubeX, having such a large drive wheel, can spit a lot of material in either direction in a short period; way more than a direct drive lead screw like the 3DT has. All it would take is one decimal place off and the Suck becomes way too great. This then pulls all of the material out of the extruder and back up into the tube--the gap is filled with air. When the Prime happens as the head contacts the part to begin a new extrusion, the air gets trapped for a bit, heats up and bursts out of the nozzle. There is a void behind that takes a bit to be filled and then pressurized, in order to supplying a normal extrusion volume.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 09:15:41 PM by PenskeGuy »

« Reply #314 on: December 05, 2013, 09:10:57 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 06:21:51 PM
No more random gaps, no puddles, etc. I think its a pretty good place to start tweaking again...

Hey Evan,

just tried the new Cubit. Seem to be getting the 1st layer puddle now, but no gaps in the perimeter loops.

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1looooopy1
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Posts: 34

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #315 on: December 05, 2013, 10:22:52 PM »
Quote
Hello bkjnky,
If you have gmail, you can insert a large file using Drive:

Here's how to insert a file using Drive when you're composing a message:
1.Hover over the plus icon insert menu plus icon at the bottom of the compose window, which will open the insert menu. (Remember, you need to be using Gmail's new compose and reply experience to insert files using Google Drive).
2.Click the Google Drive icon insert from Drive. In the window that appears, you can upload a file to Google Drive, as well as navigate to or search for files you've stored in Drive. For files stored in Drive, select the checkboxes next to the files you want to insert. If you don't have any files in Drive, visit drive.google.com to either create, sync, or upload them.
3.Click the Insert button.

Gmail then adds a link to your message so recipients can click the link to view your file.

When you send the message, Gmail checks to see if your recipients have access to the file and will prompt you to adjust the sharing settings on the file(s) you've inserted, if needed.

Thank you much

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bkjnky
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Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #316 on: December 05, 2013, 10:37:07 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 05, 2013, 09:09:39 PM

Thinking further about the "popping" issue, looking for alternatives, if the Prime/Suck values were somehow being messed with by the CubeX proprietary firmware/g-code insertions that don't make any sense, the extruder could be made to be void of material--completely starved.

The main difference between a 3DT and a CubeX is the extruder drive mechanism. The CubeX, having such a large drive wheel, can spit a lot of material in either direction in a short period; way more than a direct drive lead screw like the 3DT has. All it would take is one decimal place off and the Suck becomes way too great. This then pulls all of the material out of the extruder and back up into the tube--the gap is filled with air. When the Prime happens as the head contacts the part to begin a new extrusion, the air gets trapped for a bit, heats up and bursts out of the nozzle. There is a void behind that takes a bit to be filled and then pressurized, in order to supplying a normal extrusion volume.

I agree with this 100%. think about all the retractions that happen when printing supports and infill. It could be creating dozens of pockets in the flow....

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bkjnky
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Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #317 on: December 05, 2013, 11:12:22 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1EQlD5FnX2zSGxlbEFqb2dmVWs/edit?usp=drive_web

cubeX 1.07

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teknbul
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Posts: 10

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #318 on: December 06, 2013, 04:29:49 AM »
Quote
Hi,

printing with layers of 0.25 mm is pretty good.
printing with layers 0.1 mm there is an anomaly on the contour.
It looks like teeth on the contour

dimension of the part :

x / y = 55 x 12 mm

parameter:

PLA 210/240/150
SolidInfill / 0.1 mm
All other parameter as EvanEvery

_DSC0689.JPG (217.47 kB, 1128x750 - viewed 19 times.)

_DSC0690.JPG (186.07 kB, 1128x750 - viewed 9 times.)

_DSC0693.JPG (210.18 kB, 1128x750 - viewed 10 times.)

_DSC0694.JPG (204.9 kB, 1128x750 - viewed 14 times.)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 04:34:21 AM by teknbul »

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #319 on: December 06, 2013, 05:14:08 AM »
Quote
Looks like the teeth are only on the one long side and one end?

Is that raft as-printed?

teknbul
Newbie

Posts: 10

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #320 on: December 06, 2013, 05:31:28 AM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 06, 2013, 05:14:08 AM
Looks like the teeth are only on the one long side and one end?

Is that raft as-printed?

Hi,

Yes is the raft.

The teeth are on one side and one curve of the contour.
teeth increased or decreased along the contour.
decreased or increased, because I no longer know the sense of displacement

in 0.25 it does not appear
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 05:41:46 AM by teknbul »

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #321 on: December 06, 2013, 05:46:04 AM »
Quote
Quote from: teknbul on December 06, 2013, 05:31:28 AM
Yes is the raft.

Ok. Having a bit of trouble figuring out how that got printed. It looks draped, like a table cloth.

Quote from: teknbul on December 06, 2013, 05:31:28 AM
The teeth are on one side and one curve of the contour. in 0.25 it does not appear

I presume that the paths view in KS shows the path as being straight along those edges?

How many Loops?

Can you provide a screen grab of the slice through the layers where the teeth appear in the print?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 05:49:58 AM by PenskeGuy »

teknbul
Newbie

Posts: 10

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #322 on: December 06, 2013, 05:50:47 AM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 06, 2013, 05:46:04 AM
I presume that the paths view in KS shows the path as being straight along those edges?

Yes

Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 06, 2013, 05:46:04 AM
How many Loops?

2 loops

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teknbul
Newbie

Posts: 10

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #323 on: December 06, 2013, 06:32:55 AM »
Quote

may have to do a little recap on controls M55x, M227, M228

M55x = Purge command
M227 = function Suck
M228 = Prime function

P = Number of stepper motor

S = RPM * 10

Is this good?

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #324 on: December 06, 2013, 06:42:50 AM »
Quote
I did not see any puddle in either of my latest test prints. Does anyone else have any observations?

We can certainly rearrange the order, modify, or add to, of the commands in any of the PSP groups in the CubeIt.ini file. (For example: Move the M55x after the M227/M228 in the "First Layer" PSP Groups). CubeIt's job is simply to detect when the insert of the group is necessary, choose the proper section in the INI, and then just insert the commands inthe order they are listed. (Note that the key names in the INI sections do not matter (Line1, Line2, etc) - CubeIt just copies in the entire section (without the key names) in the order it is listed. You can have as many commands in these groups as you want. This should make it relatively easy to test different combinations and modifications.

But I'm curious why I didn't see any puddle in either of my tests...

Since its obvious that there is some proprietary logic associated with the PSP groups, I think we need to proceed cautiously to try and figure out what exactly is going on...

; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for First layers of ABS
[PSPBlock ABS First]
Line1=M55x P99 S150.000
Line2=M227 P99 S201
Line3=M228 P0 S73

; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for Remaining layers of ABS
[PSPBlock ABS Rest]
Line1=M227 P99 S201
Line2=M228 P0 S73
Line3=M55x P2499 S150.000

; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for FIRST layers of PLA
[PSPBlock PLA First]
Line1=M55x P163 S80.000
Line2=M227 P163 S230
Line3=M228 P0 S163

; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for Remaining layers of PLA
[PSPBlock PLA Rest]
Line1=M227 P163 S230
Line2=M228 P0 S163
Line3=M55x P6000 S80.000

1. Why do the M55x commands precede the M227/M228 pair in the first layer print, while coming AFTER the pairs for the rest of the print?

2. Why do the values of the M55x command change so radically between "first" layer & "rest" layers of the prints?

3. Note that M228 has some extra parameters... I wonder what they do? They differ between PLA and ABS... Note that for PLA, the M228 "S" parameter always matches the groups M227 "P" parameter. For ABS, they are different (but consistent). ...And these are not round numbers, but pretty specific integers...

4. Note that in the first layer print, the M55X P value always matches the P value of the M227 command which immediately follows it. These aren't round numbers either (i.e. 99, 163) so I'm wondering if there is some logical relationship...

First, lets find out why some folks are still seeing puddles. I think that might be fairly easy to get out of the way...

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evanevery
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Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #325 on: December 06, 2013, 06:48:27 AM »
Quote
Quote from: teknbul on December 06, 2013, 06:32:55 AM

may have to do a little recap on controls M55x, M227, M228

M55x = Purge command
M227 = function Suck
M228 = Prime function

P = Number of stepper motor

S = RPM * 10

Is this good?

Yesterday I ran a bunch of Native BFB files (v1.07) and changed the parameters between tests. I preserved these for easy reference. I ran 4 tests PLA on Ext1, PLA on Ext2, ABS on Ext1, and ABS on Ext2.

The "P" parameter on the M228 was always "P0" so it doesn't appear to reference any particular extruder. The only command which varied between extruders was the M55x command (M551, M552, M553). (CubeIt will convert the M55x in the INI PSP Groups to match whatever extruder is currently being used).

Keep Looking!

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AeroJack

Newbie

Posts: 6

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #326 on: December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM »

Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 10:14:40 AM

I've seen M104 commands with an extra parameter "M104 S205 P1" and the M228 command also appears to have extra parameters...

In the set temperature m-code, they are using the P1 as a modifier. Without the P1, the code M104 S210 sets the target temperature to 210C and waits for the hot end to reach that temperature before executing the next command.

With the P1, M104 S210 P1 sets the target temperature to 210C, but does not wait for the hot end to reach that temperature before continuing with the program. It immediately goes to the next line of code.

I read about this here http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=606.msg4491#msg4491

I also verified this behavior by running this short program on my machine.

^Firmware:V1.07
G21
G90
M104 S195
G1 X-9.78 Y24.22 Z0.5 F12000
G1 X-9.78 Y24.22 Z5.00 F180
G1 X-10.55 Y24.88 Z5.00 F900.7
M103
M104 S0

Without the P1 at the end of the M104 line, the machine heats up the hot end and then does the movements. Since the hot end takes a while to heat up, it takes longer than one minute to execute the program.

If you replace the 4th line above with M104 S195 P1, the machine does not wait for the hot end to heat up, it runs the movements and the program finishes in few seconds.

The other interesting thing is the above code does not tell the machine to move to the wipe area, M542, but it does it anyway. So the M542/M543 pair maybe redundant when doing a temperature change.

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #327 on: December 06, 2013, 07:39:48 AM »
Quote
Do you think this might provide some insight into the extra parameters on the M228 command?

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evanevery
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Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #328 on: December 06, 2013, 02:14:54 PM »
Quote
Hey guys... I'm gonna be out of town most of next week. I don't know how much access I'll have to the forum. Keep the info flowing and I'll try to implement anything that's needed into CubeIt when I get back...

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treemagnet
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #329 on: December 06, 2013, 05:53:59 PM »
Quote
Hey I waws wondering if there is a Doc explaining all the function of Kisslicer I am couriuos what crown and loops and other things are
thanks
Tom

Bkjnky

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bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #330 on: December 06, 2013, 07:12:28 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: treemagnet on December 06, 2013, 05:53:59 PM

Hey I waws wondering if there is a Doc explaining all the function of Kisslicer I am couriuos what crown and loops and other things are
thanks
Tom

http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=671.0;attach=1902

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treemagnet
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #331 on: December 06, 2013, 07:27:54 PM »
Quote
great thanks

Tom
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joestefano
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Posts: 12

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #332 on: December 07, 2013, 10:01:55 AM »
Quote
Evan, with the new version my purge speed in the wipe box is causing my extruder to skip. How can I slow this down and decrease the amount of purge a bit?

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #333 on: December 07, 2013, 01:55:48 PM »
Quote
Quote from: AeroJack on December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM

With the P1, M104 S210 P1 sets the target temperature to 210C, but does not wait for the hot end to reach that temperature before continuing with the program. It immediately goes to the next line of code.

Which is how Mx04 is supposed to work.

Quote from: AeroJack on December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM

Without the P1 at the end of the M104 line, the machine heats up the hot end and then does the movements.

Which is what Mx09 is for.

Quote from: AeroJack on December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM

Since the hot end takes a while to heat up, it takes longer than one minute to execute the program.

If you replace the 4th line above with M104 S195 P1, the machine does not wait for the hot end to heat up, it runs the movements and the program finishes in few seconds.

It would be recommended to place an Mx04 Snnn command in the prefix, in order to ensure that the extruder is up to temp before going to print. While the program may finish in a few seconds, it may also damage your extruder because it isn't waiting on that first heat. Subsequent temp changes can benefit from adding P1, but the first should be without it.

Quote from: AeroJack on December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM

The other interesting thing is the above code does not tell the machine to move to the wipe area, M542, but it does it anyway. So the M542/M543 pair maybe redundant when doing a temperature change.

This is the same behavior as a 3DT. There are a few threads on this and how to alter the action:

http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=606.msg4509#msg4509
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=163.msg6939#msg6939
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=751.msg5536#msg5536
« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 02:02:15 PM by PenskeGuy »

PenskeGuy
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Posts: 1264
Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #334 on: December 07, 2013, 01:59:14 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 06, 2013, 07:39:48 AM

Do you think this might provide some insight into the extra parameters on the M228 command?

The thread is too long to try to locate where this answer may be but what happens if you just whack the M228 line altogether?

Alternative to that, if there is any convention going on with their stupid messing with codes, changing the M228 P0 Snnn to M228 P1 Snnn may trigger something that is now disabled. M228 is a disable command, so perhaps they have added a switch.

evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #335 on: December 07, 2013, 03:27:43 PM »
Quote
Quote from: joestefano on December 07, 2013, 10:01:55 AM
Evan, with the new version my purge speed in the wipe box is causing my extruder to skip. How can I slow this down and decrease the amount of purge a bit?

I'm not seeing any issues with extruders skipping or puddles.

Are you using the Kisslicer INI files I included with the latest version of CubeIt? (So at least we are using the same settings) I've been printing with ABS using the 20% infill style and everything is working great at that setting. No puddles, no random gaps/voids, no extruder skipping...

What material and what style are you using? Can you post your kisslicer native output (*.bfb.bak) and also the CubeIt modified file (*.bfb). If you don't have a *.bfb.bak then CubeIt hasn't been integrated properly...

I'm all for running down any problems, but we first have to make sure we are using the same settings, etc.

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joestefano
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #336 on: December 07, 2013, 04:51:39 PM »
Quote
Evan,
I posted a short video here http://youtu.be/gWn9yBQOY1c the 1st layer purge is very short and does not skip the 2nd layer purge is long and skips. I am using Reprap PLA, I have been using it for awhile now and the only time it skips is if I try to run it to fast for the temp. Otherwise it's great.

I went back to the prior version of CubeIt and my settings that work well with this PLA is "material" P .5 S .1 and in the Gcode tab P2000 S80
I don't know if this helps.

PLA1x1 box no bottom.bfb.bak (15.54 kB - downloaded 2 times.)
PLA1x1 box no bottom.bfb.bak (15.54 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 04:53:22 PM by joestefano »

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bsmith19dot98
Jr. Member

Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #337 on: December 07, 2013, 05:06:17 PM »
Quote
Does anyone know the steps per revolution of the Cubex extruder motors? I found a post that said 3200 but that was for a different bfb machine. Are they all the same?

Thanks

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bkjnky
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Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #338 on: December 07, 2013, 10:20:36 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: joestefano on December 07, 2013, 10:01:55 AM
Evan, with the new version my purge speed in the wipe box is causing my extruder to skip. How can I slow this down and decrease the amount of purge a bit?

I've seen this issue as well, but it usually occurs when I haven't correctly set my filament size correctly, or there is a need to clean the print jet (not total clog, but some buildup inside nozzle)Check your filament in a few place to make sure the size setting is correct, if that's not the issue, try removing the head and heating it up with a heat gun then push a drill bit square end first through the the nozzle to push out all material.

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treemagnet
Newbie

Posts: 14

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #339 on: December 09, 2013, 05:11:48 AM »
Quote
so I bought some black abs from botfeeder and I have been hearing this "popping" and have had voids in my print. when I replace the filament with the cubex abs filament I don't hear the "popping" sound and no voids. could it be the filament can anyone one suggest a place to buy filament preferably in Canada
thanks
Tom

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MattDub

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Posts: 6

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #340 on: December 09, 2013, 12:18:51 PM »
Quote
Just an update from my end. I updated the CubIt and associated .ini files to the latest evanevery posted. Running PLA with the fast setting, it almost eliminated the voids but the first and last 5 layers were awful to say the least. Plus the infill was going so fast I thought the cubex was going to shake itself apart. Then I tried agian on the precise setting and it made a nice part but the voids were all over the place again. Also with both getting a very small puddle at the start of the first layer, but it's something I can live with.

All the code stuff you guys are shooting out is beyond me. I understand (somewhat) what you all are doing, but I won't attempt those kind of changes, cause I'll really F things up.

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wildbunny

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #341 on: December 09, 2013, 05:11:18 PM »
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I've been getting those random pops since the very begining of using kiss (which was two weeks ago lol).
Every pop necessarily causes a void. However I got from "popcorn" to no voids (practically no voids, maybe a couple in several hours) by tweaking the temperature and prime.

It is a bit tricky, because it seems that every change in temperature requires a change in "prime". So far "suck" had no effect whatsoever (ranging from 0.05 to 1.0). The material is cubex white PLA.
Example settings with no voids:
218 C, prime: 0.15
210 C, prime 0.05

I'm a bit scared of trying the new cubeit, because I've never experienced the puddle issue and I'm not sure I want to!

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #342 on: December 09, 2013, 11:48:51 PM »
Quote
Quote from: MattDub on December 09, 2013, 12:18:51 PM
Just an update from my end. I updated the CubIt and associated .ini files to the latest evanevery posted. Running PLA with the fast setting, it almost eliminated the voids but the first and last 5 layers were awful to say the least. Plus the infill was going so fast I thought the cubex was going to shake itself apart. Then I tried agian on the precise setting and it made a nice part but the voids were all over the place again

This REALLY sounds like Material > Flow Adjust > Min [mm^3/s] is not set correctly.

bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #343 on: December 10, 2013, 07:22:33 AM »
Quote
Quote from: MattDub on December 09, 2013, 12:18:51 PM
Then I tried agian on the precise setting and it made a nice part but the voids were all over the place again.

What are your Prime and Suck settings?

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MattDub

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #344 on: December 10, 2013, 08:08:16 AM »
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I'm going to try wildbunny's suggestion and we'll see what happens. Settings attached.

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Bkjnky

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #345 on: December 10, 2013, 09:37:11 AM »
Quote
That's what I was going to suggest. I use .05 for prime for abs and pla. And Wildbunny is correct, the suck parameter is ignored by the machine.

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MattDub
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #346 on: December 10, 2013, 02:12:37 PM »
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Well.....using PLA the .15 prime was a little better and .05 was even a little better, but the voids are still there. I'll try to post a pic tomorrow of the .05 prime build. Any other suggestions?
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dzynetech
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #347 on: December 10, 2013, 04:54:11 PM »
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I have been going crazy trying to get my cubex duo to work! I am using the lastest version of kisslicer and Cubeit. The BFB file that is output from CubeIt, I rename to a cubex and the machine can see it but it says there is an error with the file. Anyone else have this problem? I am on firmware 1.07

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #348 on: December 10, 2013, 06:19:40 PM »
Quote
Quote from: dzynetech on December 10, 2013, 04:54:11 PM
The BFB file that is output from CubeIt, I rename to a cubex and the machine can see it but it says there is an error with the file.

Don't rename the output file. The suffix needs to be .bfb.

When you get time you should read the entire thread from the beginning. You can skim through alot of the posts but you will find a lot of key questions already answered.

Enjoy!
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AG

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #349 on: December 10, 2013, 08:20:22 PM »
Quote
I'v had access to a CubeX printer for a week - having never 3D'd before. I have been trying to get the best resolution I can from the CubeX and was testing it by printing a 1 inch, 1/4-20 nut & bolt. I thought the Cubex software was doing a cruddy job (V1.08) with few options to try to improve it. I was delighted to find this forum and the info on KISSlicer. I downloaded KISSlicer, the .ini files & CubeIT from this forum and followed the instructions (thanks everyone). I've had no problems getting the CubeX printer to print the .bfb files, but in my now three attempts to reprint the nut and bolt from KISSSlicer they have, much to my surprise, come out considerably worse. See pic attached. The nut and bolt to the RIGHT is from KISSlicer and the LEFT from CubeX. My KISSlicer initial settings were as per the posted .ini files, but I have been adjusting a few parameters (extruder temp, jitter angle, etc., - see attached screen shot) without much effect. Any help would be appreciated. I'll keep at it till Dec. 13 when I have to leave the site where the Cubex is. Tx. AG.

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KISS_style.jpg (41.1 kB, 544x269 - viewed 20 times.)

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bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #350 on: December 10, 2013, 09:56:31 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: AG on December 10, 2013, 08:20:22 PM
I'v had access to a CubeX printer for a week - having never 3D'd before. I have been trying to get the best resolution I can from the CubeX and was testing it by printing a 1 inch, 1/4-20 nut & bolt. I thought the Cubex software was doing a cruddy job (V1.08) with few options to try to improve it. I was delighted to find this forum and the info on KISSlicer. I downloaded KISSlicer, the .ini files & CubeIT from this forum and followed the instructions (thanks everyone). I've had no problems getting the CubeX printer to print the .bfb files, but in my now three attempts to reprint the nut and bolt from KISSSlicer they have, much to my surprise, come out considerably worse. See pic attached. The nut and bolt to the RIGHT is from KISSlicer and the LEFT from CubeX. My KISSlicer initial settings were as per the posted .ini files, but I have been adjusting a few parameters (extruder temp, jitter angle, etc., - see attached screen shot) without much effect. Any help would be appreciated. I'll keep at it till Dec. 13 when I have to leave the site where the Cubex is. Tx. AG.

Take a look back through this forum. You need to calibrate your settings for the material you are using. First do the thin wall calibration and then the solid calibration. Once you have done that, I think you will see considerably better results. Just looking at your screen shot, I can tell that you have not completed the calibration required.

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Rasle500
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #351 on: December 11, 2013, 02:24:26 AM »
Quote
Quote from: AG on December 10, 2013, 08:20:22 PM
I'v had access to a CubeX printer for a week - having never 3D'd before. I have been trying to get the best resolution I can from the CubeX and was testing it by printing a 1 inch, 1/4-20 nut & bolt. I thought the Cubex software was doing a cruddy job (V1.08) with few options to try to improve it. I was delighted to find this forum and the info on KISSlicer. I downloaded KISSlicer, the .ini files & CubeIT from this forum and followed the instructions (thanks everyone). I've had no problems getting the CubeX printer to print the .bfb files, but in my now three attempts to reprint the nut and bolt from KISSSlicer they have, much to my surprise, come out considerably worse. See pic attached. The nut and bolt to the RIGHT is from KISSlicer and the LEFT from CubeX. My KISSlicer initial settings were as per the posted .ini files, but I have been adjusting a few parameters (extruder temp, jitter angle, etc., - see attached screen shot) without much effect. Any help would be appreciated. I'll keep at it till Dec. 13 when I have to leave the site where the Cubex is. Tx. AG.

Set extrusion width and infill extrusion width to 0.5 and number of loops to 3.

/Michael
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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #352 on: December 11, 2013, 02:48:48 AM »
Quote
That looks like Oversample Resolution is too large and a non-calibrated material. KS needs to be calibrated to the material being used, otherwise you get rafts that are solid and extrusions oozing all over the place, due to too much extrusion volume. Search the forum for "Thin Wall Calibration".

« Reply #353 on: December 11, 2013, 05:37:03 PM »
Quote
This part was run about 3 or 4 weeks ago. Cubify ABS, .125 Layer, prime and suck .25 maybe .5 (can't remember), speed was probably 17.5-22.5-34 (medium), temps 230-250-140. Lots of blow holes!

This part was run today. Same material, same part, .125 layer, prime and suck 0.05, speeds 25-30-38 (fast). No blow holes.

Most important IMHO is this reel has spent the last 3 or 4 weeks in a bag with a pouch of dessicant.

Abs_Left.jpg (246.94 kB, 1169x969 - viewed 12 times.)

Abs_Right.jpg (257.23 kB, 1249x929 - viewed 13 times.)

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #354 on: December 11, 2013, 06:15:56 PM »
Quote
A 1/4-20 thread is getting on the small side for this machine.

PLA_bolt, layer .25, speed fast 25-30-38, prime&suck .05, temps 210-230-150

ABS_bolt, layer .125, speed fast, p&s .05, temps 230-250-150

PLA_bolt.jpg (207.8 kB, 800x987 - viewed 16 times.)

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #355 on: December 11, 2013, 09:05:18 PM »
Quote
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on December 11, 2013, 05:37:03 PM
Most important IMHO is this reel has spent the last 3 or 4 weeks in a bag with a pouch of dessicant.

I rest my case...

« Reply #356 on: December 12, 2013, 01:12:26 PM »
Quote
Hey guys, I just got back in town and I'm trying to catch up here...

The first thing you should understand is that it doesn't matter what you set your prime and suck to be in Kisslicer... If you are using CubeIt to post-process the kisslicer output, then the kisslicer prime and suck settings will be replaced with the ones that are set in your CubeIt.ini. CubeIt will use the appropriate ABS/PLA block from your CubeIt.ini file to re-organize and set your Prime/Suck/Purge parameters.

We already know that the CubeX printer does NOT follow standardized parameters for these settings. I'm all for using as much of the Kisslicer settings as possible, but they simply don't get implemented in a way that is appropriate for the proprietary format the CubeX is expecting. This is exactly why CubeIt has 4 different Prime?Suck/Purge blocks in the INI file.

If you would like to adjust prime/suck/purge parameters (M227/M228/M55x), then you should make these adjustments in the CubeIt.ini file (if you are post-processing with CubeIt). Otherwise any changes you make in Kisslicer are simply thrown away as they will not be implemented or organized correctly anyway for our proprietary printer.

>---

Also, I did completely eliminate the popping and voids in my prints by using the latest version of CubeIt. If someone has a very simple model for me to try and print (which has pops/voids/puddles), please post the original STL file, let me know what material you are using and which profile and I'll run it through my machine... I really would like to be able to replicate any problems that are being seen so I can try and figure out what is different than what I am doing...

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #357 on: December 12, 2013, 03:17:06 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 12, 2013, 01:12:26 PM
Also, I did completely eliminate the popping and voids in my prints by using the latest version of CubeIt. If someone has a very simple model for me to try and print (which has pops/voids/puddles), please post the original STL file, let me know what material you are using and which profile and I'll run it through my machine... I really would like to be able to replicate any problems that are being seen so I can try and figure out what is different than what I am doing...

They're using different material. That you don't have popping on one part most probably will mean that you won't have popping on their parts. The shape of the part, which is all that will be changed, doesn't make any difference.

When they use the latest version of CubeIt, do not change the material, and no popping occurs, then that will tell us something.

bkjnky
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Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #358 on: December 12, 2013, 08:43:56 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Does anyone have a good recommendation for desiccant and or a good supplier to purchase from?

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AG

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #359 on: December 12, 2013, 09:53:05 PM »
Quote
Well my two weeks with the CubeX has drawn to a close. Just a note to say thanks to all who have posted to this thread with the useful tips, code and suggestions and replies to my earlier posting on improving the print quality of my nut and bolt (see earlier posting). What I have learned is that simply tweaking various parameters is not the solution to achieving the best print quality. That has resulted in little improvement in the print quality and sometimes a detriment. Clearly the material calibrations are a fundamental step, but unfortunately not one I have had time to undertake. Despite not having improved the print resolution of my nut and bolt (see earlier posting), I have to say that this forum, the availability of KISSlicer (as opposed to the limiting CubeX software) has considerably improved my perceptions of the utility of the CubeX printer. It's too bad about the disadvantages of the closed-source approach taken by the company to the CubeX and the limitations imposed by material cartridges. Thanks to all. AG

Bkjnky

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #360 on: December 12, 2013, 10:42:10 PM »
Quote
Quote from: bkjnky on December 12, 2013, 08:43:56 PM

Does anyone have a good recommendation for desiccant and or a good supplier to purchase from?

http://ProtoParadigm.com/ has a type the changes color when it is used up and when it is viable. Haven't purchased any as yet, because I take the packets that come in the reels that I buy and dehydrate them for reuse.

PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #361 on: December 12, 2013, 10:50:03 PM »
Quote
Quote from: AG on December 12, 2013, 09:53:05 PM

Well my two weeks with the CubeX has drawn to a close. Just a note to say thanks to all who have posted to this thread with the useful tips, code and suggestions and replies to my earlier posting on improving the print quality of my nut and bolt

Thank you for the note. I hoped that withing the short time you had, that some greater advancements could have been made. It does take time and effort, however. Perhaps there will be an opportunity down the line where what we have shared will be of service.

« Reply #362 on: December 12, 2013, 11:27:53 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 12, 2013, 10:42:10 PM
Quote from: bkjnky on December 12, 2013, 08:43:56 PM

Does anyone have a good recommendation for desiccant and or a good supplier to purchase from?

PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #363 on: December 13, 2013, 12:47:36 AM »
Quote
We got a dehydrator just for the purpose of drying out filament reels and the desiccant packets go in there.

« Reply #364 on: December 13, 2013, 06:11:48 AM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 12, 2013, 03:17:06 PM

They're using different material. That you don't have popping on one part most probably will mean that you won't have popping on their parts. The shape of the part, which is all that will be changed, doesn't make any difference.

Thats exactly why I asked for the STL file, the type of material they are using, and the style they are printing with. So I can reproduce the problem environment. (I have PLA loaded in my first extruder so its not a problem for me to switch materials and duplicate someone elses environment).

Since I am not having any issues (puddles/gaps/popping) I obviously need to replicate the issue before I can attempt to resolve it...

I am also very curious if folks can take the time to confirm that CubeIt is really integrated properly (Do you have a *.BFB.BAK file in addition to your *.BFB file?) and also if the INI PSP section inserts are being performed
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treemagnet
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #365 on: December 13, 2013, 08:48:15 AM »
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HELP I have tried to find the explanation of thin calibration but I either don't under stand it or not looking in the right place can some one point me in the right direction
Thanks
Tom

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #366 on: December 13, 2013, 09:44:33 AM »
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Attached is Penske's write up. I could not find the original post (I did look). Unfortunately when you search for "thin wall calibration" you get a list of postings telling you to search for thin wall calibration.
3d-printer-calibration.pdf (57.34 kB - downloaded 16 times.)

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #367 on: December 13, 2013, 09:53:15 AM »
Quote
McMaster Carr also sells desiccant.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#desiccant-bags/=psiygx

At the last place I worked I used to "re dry" desiccant in a toaster oven. I can't remember what temperature I used. I would cook it until it turned color. Google might be able to fine 1 or 2 articles on the subject.
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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #368 on: December 13, 2013, 09:54:08 AM »
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I pushed out the latest version of CubeIt just before going out of town. I think there may be some confusion of exactly what CubeIt is now doing. I wanted to get this out before I left. I don't THINK their are any issues with the software, but perhaps I can take a little more time to document what we THINK we know, and exactly what CubeIt is doing...

- It appears that the CubeX printer is not using industry standard commands to establish Prime and Suck settings on the extruders. We are pretty sure we know this because the way M227 and M228 commands are always stacked together by the native CubeX slicer software (normally M228 would negate an M227) and that the M228 command specifically has some additional parameters. Because of this, it appears we need a way to manually override the industry standard GCODE which would normally be sent to a standard printer, with some other construct appropriate for the CubeX. Since KISSLICER is generating industry standard code, in an industry standard way, we can not really adjust the associated settings (Prime/Suck) in the KISSLICER interface and expect it to generate code which is appropriate for our proprietary CubeX printer (in any case). So, we need an alternative way to control these settings (CubeIt). If you are using CubeIt to modify the indiustry standard code produced by KISSLICER, you need to be quite aware that any changes you make to PRIME and SUCK in the KS interface are simply discarded and replaced by settings established in the CubeIt.ini file. IOW - If you are using CubeIt, then ANY changes you are making to the Prime/Suck settings in KS will be ignored. If you want to try and adjust Prime/Suck when using CubeIt, simply edit the values in the INI file...

- So why doesn't CubeIt simply use the Prime/Suck settings that KS puts into the print file? Because, no one (to my knowledge) has successfully determined or documented how the CubeX printer uses the information being sent to it in its proprietary M227/M228 commands. Its pretty obvious when you look at the native code produced by the CubeX slicer software, that something unusual is going on with these commands. (M228 is not even supposed to have any parameters)... So, until we understand how CubeX is interpreting these commands, there is little point in trying to take the standard Kisslicer Codes and regenerate them into a format appropriate for the CubeX. (However, once we figure this all out, I will gladly update CubeIt to do this automatically).

- So, if we don't understand how CubeX is currently using its proprietary M227/M228 commands, what can we do? Well, we can try and copy what the code output by the native CubeX slicer is doing. Although we may not completely understand how CubeX is using these commands, we can certainly try and emulate what is being done in its native environment. This is precisely, what CubeIt is now doing.

- During my testing, I generated 4 test prints using the native CubeX slicer:

PLA (Extruder 1)
PLA (Extruder 2)
ABS (Extruder 1)
ABS (Extruder 2)

- In examining the four test prints, I was able to extract a bunch of info as follows:

1. The CubeX software always bundles the M227 commands with the M228 Commands. Whenever an M227 (Prime/Suck) is generated an M228 is always send immediately afterwards.

2. The M228 has two non-standard parameters so it is unlikely to be interpreted as a standard "Prime/Suck disable" command.

3. The M227/M228 pairs always follow an extruder temp setting (M104/M204/M304) and nozzle purge command (M551/M552/M553) command. IOW: The native code blocks always appears as follows (x = extruder number):

Mx04 ... (Set Temp)
M55x ... (Purge)
M227 ... (Set Prime/Suck)
M228 ... (Disable Prime/Suck)

4. For a particular extruder: The M55x/M227/M228 parameters specified in the very use (first layer) will be different than those used in the remainder of the file (rest of the layers). IOW: For a given extruder, there are basically two sets of "PSP" (Prime, Suck, Purge) code blocks which are used: 1 for the "first" layer, and 1 for the "rest" of the layers.

5. The orientation of the Purge (M55x) commands to the Prime/Suck) pairs (M227/M228) also seems to change depending on whether the setting is being established for the first layer or remaining layers. The Purge (M55x) is done before setting the Prime/Suck (M227/M228) in the first layer, but AFTER the prime/suck in subsequent layers. The numerical parameters for the M55x also changes depending on whether it is for the first layer or subsequent layers...

6. The parameter values in the PSP code blocks also differ between PLA and ABS.

7. Therefore, it appears we have a total of 4 possible PSP Code blocks: ABS First Layer. ABS Remaining Layers, PLA First Layer, PLA Remaining Layers. These are the code blocks you will see in the CubeIt INI file. The values I have put into the INI file are the ones which precisely correspond to the ones seen in the Native CubeX slicer print files:

[PSPBlock ABS First]
Line1=M55x P99 S150.000
Line2=M227 P99 S201
Line3=M228 P0 S73

[PSPBlock ABS Rest]
Line1=M227 P99 S201
Line2=M228 P0 S73
Line3=M55x P2499 S150.000

[PSPBlock PLA First]
Line1=M55x P163 S80.000
Line2=M227 P163 S230
Line3=M228 P0 S163

[PSPBlock PLA Rest]
Line1=M227 P163 S230
Line2=M228 P0 S163
Line3=M55x P6000 S80.000

- So CubeIt scans the Kisslicer print file:

a. CubeIt watches for any "Mx04" commands to keep track of the current extruder temp. It uses this to determine whether the extruder is using PLA (<230) or ABS >230). This is the function of the "threshold" temp setting in the CubeIt.ini file.

b. CubeIt watches to see what extruder is currently being referenced and keeps track of the number of times an extruder is called. It uses this info to determine whether we will be using the "FIRST" or "REST" PSP block from the INI file for the associated material.

c. When an extruder PURGE command is located (each time an extruder is placed in service), CubeIT simply REPLACES that "M55x" with the appropriate PSP code block from CubeIt.INI (PLA First, PLA Rest, ABS First, or ABS Rest).

d. Since the PSP Blocks specified in CubeIt.ini already include a Prime/Suck Command (M227), any additional M227's in the original KISSLICER print file are simply discarded (usually a couple of lines after the associated M55x). KISSLICER does not generate any M228's, but we must provide them anyway, since CubeX interprets them in some proprietary manner.

So....

If you want to try and adjust your Prime/Suck settings (M227/M228), you should do this by editing the corresponding CubeIt.ini PSP Block(s) - NOT by making adjustments in the KISSLICER interface (those values just get discarded in any case).

Similarly, if you want to try and tweak your Purge settings (M55x), those should also be done in the CubeIt.ini file for the very same reason.

With the 4 PSP blocks in the CubeIt.ini file, we should be able to emulate the behavior of the native CubeX slicer software (even if we don't fully understand it, or agree with it). We should also be able to tweak these settings if we want to make some adjustments or run some experiments.

The values that I provided in my default CubeIt.ini file is simply the same values that are being used by the native CubeX Slicer. I have every reason to believe this is a good place to start - even if we don't fully understand how they are being used (yet)...

I have some other thoughts on printer speeds, but I'll post separately for that...
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treemagnet
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #369 on: December 13, 2013, 10:03:46 AM »
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Thanks ill look at that

Tom
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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #370 on: December 13, 2013, 10:19:41 AM »
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Printer Speeds: I ran some sample prints a while back from the native CubeX slicer to re-establish my print speeds. I am typically printing with ABS and I ran two print samples through the native CubeX slicer. One at DRAFT speed and one at NORMAL. KISSLICER would call these FAST and PRECISE respectively. The numbers that I saw for ABS would roughly equate to the following KISSLICER settings:

ABS FAST: 30/58/66 (Perimeter/Solid Infill Support/Sparse Infill Support)
ABS PRECISE: 17/28/38 (Perimeter/Solid Infill Support/Sparse Infill Support)
XY Travel Speed: 500
1st Layer Max Speed: 28

I'm going to generate another set of CS native print files with PLA to see if/how they might be different. I'll post that information shortly.

I should also note that all of my actual print tests have been at the PRECISE setting, since I saw absolutely no value in running anything at FAST speeds until I good good quality at PRECISE speeds (which I now have). (And all were with ABS...)

One important thing to note is that KISSLICER does NOT appear to support multiple speed settings to differ between ABS and PLA materials (should this become necessary)...

If you "want to play along", I suggest you get a copy of the v1.07 CubeX slicer software as it generates a clear text BFB file in addition to the encrypted CUBEX file. For CubeX, the leftover (pre-encryption) file appears to have been a "bug", for us, it is a powerful "feature" of that particular version. You can examine/compare the contents of that leftover BFB file to see the actual commands that are being generated in clear text GCode... A link to the older v1.07 software was posted a bunch of messages back in this thread...

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #371 on: December 13, 2013, 11:01:35 AM »
Quote
I should have clarified this in my post regarding the "blow holes" and the bolts. I am essentially running CubeIt version 2. The one that only moves the M227 command. So the Prime and Suck of .05 that I posted is what I am sending to the machine. That is my current setup for "production" parts.

I was mainly trying to show the importance of dry filament.

I am doing my own research on the CURSE OF M227! I mean prime and suck. So far nothing to report.

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #372 on: December 13, 2013, 11:12:06 AM »
Quote
I ran 4 print jobs through the native CubeX slicer. My test model did not have a lot of thickness so its hard to differentiate if/how the CS Slicer differentiates between what Kisslicer would call Perimeter and Infill settings. Anyway, regarding ABS and PLA print speeds, I believe the following info would be an accurate representation of how the print speeds are being reflected wrt ABS/PLA and PRECISE/FAST...

(Note that the GCODE values in the print files are mm/min and Kisslicer wants mm/sec so be sure to divide anything you see in GCODE by 60 to get a comparable KS setting)

XY Max Travel (All): 500 mm/sec

1st Layer print speeds:
Fast Precise
ABS 13 20
PLA 28 28

Rest Layer Print Speeds:
Fast Precise
ABS 54 26
PLA 58 16

Yes - The first layer print speed for ABS in Draft/Fast mode does appear to be SLOWER than that used in the Normal/Precise mode. I'm not trying to justify these values - just document them. Again, its really hard to see any variation for INFILL speeds. There is some additional speed variation in these files, but it does not appear to be anything striking and its hard to tell why its being done...

I'll try and run some some actual PLA prints this weekend. However...

If you're having print problems (Popping/Voids/Puddles), PLEASE BE SURE you have CubeIt integrated properly. (If you don't get a *.BFB.BAK file along with your *.BFB file then CubeIt is not running at all as a post processor).

If you want to tweak your Prime/Suck/Purge commands you need to do this in the CubeIt.ini file (not within KISSLICER)...

If you want to tweak your printer speeds, you should do this within KISSLICER...

Based on my results, I don't believe that my problem with popping/gaps/voids had anything to do with moisture in the filament. I had this problem all through my model until I used the latest copy of CubeIt to resolve it and now its COMPLETELY gone. Same filament, extruder, etc. So, in my case, it had nothing to do with my filament and appears to have been generated by inappropriate Prime/Suck settings sucking air back into the extruder...
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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #373 on: December 13, 2013, 11:14:40 AM »
Quote
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on December 13, 2013, 11:01:35 AM
I should have clarified this in my post regarding the "blow holes" and the bolts. I am essentially running CubeIt version 2.

I would recommend you use the latest version of CubeIt as it provides more functionality and much better results. (although it works in a slightly different manner).

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #374 on: December 13, 2013, 11:28:16 AM »
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Are you using a heated build plate?
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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #375 on: December 13, 2013, 11:30:49 AM »
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Yes

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #376 on: December 13, 2013, 12:45:11 PM »
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A heated bed is on my to do list one of these days.

What do you use to lubricate the slides?

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #377 on: December 13, 2013, 12:59:48 PM »
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a very light coating of teflon or wd40

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #378 on: December 13, 2013, 01:19:46 PM »
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I had not thought of teflon. I have not tried wd-40 even though Cubify recommended it. I am used to much heavier and larger machinery and equally heavy grease or way oil.

Our Cubex is actually our 2nd one. The first one came from England and had shipping damage. Plus it was turning into a lemon. This one came from South Carolina but the extruders had obviously been hot (for a while) before. Maybe a demo unit. Anyway one bearing was squeaking a bit. I tried a light instrument oil which did not take care of the squeak. Silicone made it worse. Now I am running a light synthetic grease which has finally quieted the bearing.

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #379 on: December 13, 2013, 01:41:41 PM »
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I think you want to be very careful about what lube you use as it can also attract dust and crap. I just put a little on the threads with a small brush and then manually run the bed up and down a couple of times to distribute it. A little goes a long way...

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #380 on: December 13, 2013, 01:46:28 PM »
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You really need a heated bed if you are going to print with ABS. The heated bed (with Kapton tape as a print surface) virtually eliminates any warping of ABS parts. I did relocate the auxiliary Z-Sensor they sent though as the new installation location and instructions were far from optimal.

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #381 on: December 13, 2013, 01:59:42 PM »
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Lube - Agreed!

Bed - Thanks!!
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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #382 on: December 13, 2013, 02:01:51 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 13, 2013, 06:11:48 AM

You're still missing the core concept. Stop thinking only from the software point of view. In order to "duplicate someone elses environment", you would have to have them ship you a section of the material that they are using.

« Reply #383 on: December 13, 2013, 02:04:36 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 13, 2013, 12:59:48 PM
a very light coating of teflon or wd40

Teflon or instrument oil, yes. Silicone is good if it will play well with the lubricant that is already in place. WD40 isn't really a great lubricant that will stand up to pressure and high speed use.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 02:07:01 PM by PenskeGuy »

« Reply #384 on: December 13, 2013, 02:15:28 PM »
Quote
Have you tried P1 in M228 yet?

« Reply #385 on: December 13, 2013, 02:16:38 PM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 13, 2013, 02:01:51 PM
You're still missing the core concept. Stop thinking only from the software point of view. In order to "duplicate someone elses environment", you would have to have them ship you a section of the material that they are using.

Lets try the EASY stuff first, then we can worry about shipping stuff back and forth if it doesn't play out...
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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #386 on: December 13, 2013, 02:24:32 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 13, 2013, 11:12:06 AM

Based on my results, I don't believe that my problem with popping/gaps/voids had anything to do with moisture in the filament. I had this problem all through my model until I used the latest copy of CubeIt to resolve it and now its COMPLETELY gone. Same filament, extruder, etc. So, in my case, it had nothing to do with my filament and appears to have been generated by inappropriate Prime/Suck settings sucking air back into the extruder...

I'd offer that, scientifically speaking, it may not have had anything to do with filament. At this point there isn't enough data to pull a conclusion and it just as easily could have been a coincidence. Yes, I know you want to test other's models to try to get more data. (see the other post) Looking at the issue, as it has been described by many users, it really doesn't completely point to P/S. P/S very well may be a contributing factor and I congratulate you on this effort. However, pops and voids in the middle of a path would not point to P/S as being the only problem. At the start of a layer, yes. In the middle of one, where the extruder should long have reached a stable state, no. Please apply Occam's Razor in considering this.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 02:26:52 PM by PenskeGuy »

« Reply #387 on: December 13, 2013, 02:49:59 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 13, 2013, 02:16:38 PM
Lets try the EASY stuff first, then we can worry about shipping stuff back and forth if it doesn't play out...

Agreed, as long as it yields meaningful data that isn't noise. It will form a baseline for further tests. Personally, I like to choose the test that will yield the most pertinent data first and refine down from there.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 02:52:52 PM by PenskeGuy »

1looooopy1
Newbie

Posts: 34

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #388 on: December 14, 2013, 08:52:45 AM »
Quote
I tried the new CubeIt version but get also some voids.
So I am back, running with the original Kisslicer and CubeIt and get great prints with no voids or puddles (ABS and PLA).
I tweaked some settings in KS which seem to work well.
See attached pdf file with screen shots of all the settings. (also attached settings in zipped file).
Those settings are for 0.25 layer. The 1.15 flow tweak, 0.59 extrusion width and 0.3 infill overlap give me clean and accurate parts.
Also, I keep speeds for detailed parts at: 15/25/25 and 20/25/25 for less detailed parts. If you go faster I find it is not as clean in some areas.
I am using cubeX filament that I keep stored in bags with extra desiccant.

Evanevery,
It would be great if Kisslicer would handle multishell parts and treat them as joined (like for example the CubeX software, but that's the only thing it does better). Also for example if you add in "helper disks" at the bottom of a part on the platform, and the parts overlap, it also does not treat them as joined.

Also, for new CubeX / Kisslicer users, it would be great if the BedCubX.stl is included in the CubeIt zip file and the Bed Center x default is set to -35, that would make it more plug and play. - Just a thought. - I attached the .stl in the zip file below.

Kisslicer is great !

thank you!

Kisslicer settings with and using the original CubeIt.pdf (644.29 kB - downloaded 14 times.)
CubeX_Kisslicer-CubeIt_12-14-2013.zip (663.74 kB - downloaded 8 times.)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 09:05:49 AM by 1looooopy1 »

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #389 on: December 14, 2013, 03:46:05 PM »
Quote
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on December 14, 2013, 08:52:45 AM
I tried the new CubeIt version but get also some voids.
So I am back, running with the original Kisslicer and CubeIt and get great prints with no voids or puddles (ABS and PLA).

I'm really at a loss here... I can NOT duplicate any Voids, Gaps, or Puddles. Those are EXACTLY the items that were eliminated with the latest version (v3) of CubeIt. So I really would suggest you make sure you have the latest version integrated properly (Note that the INI file structure had changed - maybe your running with the prior version INI file?) If your seeing voids/gaps/puddles, I really believe you must not have CubeIt integrated properly or are using an older INI file... I really would LOVE for someone to prove me wrong on this though if it truly is NOT the case!

Anyway, I'm about to post another version (v4.0). I'm testing it right now. I'll explain what I've found, and also why the newest version is different:

I ran some test prints (CubeIt V3) using PLA, and although all my test produced PERFECT prints (No Puddles, Gaps, or Voids), I was able to reproduce a reported issue with the extruder skipping during the purge cycle. I ran this a couple of times and noted that the extruder always skipped on the SECOND purge (as it lowered the nozzle temp just after doing the first layer). The first purge was fine, but the second purge skipped the extruder a bit. (The print still turned out just fine) So I was off comparing outputs from the native CubeX slicer to see what they were doing differently...

I have noted that the material temps being suggested in this forum are VERY DIFFERENT (lower) than what the native CubeX slicer uses! If our temps are currently so much lower, this could explain why we saw some extruder skipping when using exactly the same purge/prime/suck commands... Here is a little table of the material temps I have seen being generated by the native CubeX slicer:

Normal Speed Draft Speed
PLA First Layer 250 230
Rest Layers 205 215
ABS First Layer 280 280
Rest Layers 262 280

Even using the same Prime/Suck/Purge commands, we could certainly have some extruder skipping with the lower temps we have been discussing (more viscous material). The obvious solution to this would be to use material temps more in line with what the Native CubeX Slicer does (Set These In KISSLICER), or reduce the extruder rotation speeds (Set these in the M55x commands In the associated blocks in the CubeIt.INI File).

Personally, I'm going to push my material temps up a little in KISSLICER. However, given the wide range of temps we are potentially working with, and with the possibility of the higher PLA temps actually exceeding some of the lower ABS temps, the technique of declaring a threshold temp in the CubeIt.ini file (to determine whether PLA or ABS is currently being extruded) may no longer be valid. So, I've made some changes to the way Version 4 of CubeIt determines PLA vs ABS for a particular extruder (so it can swap in the proper "PSP" group from the INI File). V4 is still in test, but I expect to post it tomorrow after I complete a few more tests... Anyway...

The upcoming version of CubeIt no longer uses the THRESHOLD setting to determine PLA or ABS for a particular nozzle. CubeIt now pre-processes the KISSLICER print file and looks through the comments to read the material names for each extruder. Kisslicer puts a lot of info in the print file comments so this would make a more reliable method of determining an extruder material. Two things need to be noted here:

1. With the newest upcoming version of CubeIt, you MUST leave the KISSLICER COMMENTS ENABLED so CubeIt can read them and use them. (CubeIt will ultimately discard all comments anyway as it makes the CubeX BFB file).

2. There will be two new Keys (ABS_KEY, PLA_KEY) in the CubeIt.ini file to help determine if a material is ABS or PLA (from info in the KISSLICER comments). Since you can name a material anything you want, we need to search for some common substring in the material name to identify ABS or PLA. By default, ABS_KEY="ABS" and PLA_KEY="PLA". So as long as you have "ABS" somewhere in the name of your ABS material, CubeIt will know its ABS. Same thing goes for "PLA". Hopefully, the default values will work just fine as folks always have "ABS" somewhere in their ABS material name and "PLA" somewhere in their PLA material name. (However, you can change these keys if you want to...)

3. I also added a Version Check feature for the INI so CubeIt can confirm that the structure and settings in its INI file are indeed appropriate for the version of the executable being run. Error checking and notification is more robust and there is also a summary screen showing extruder/file info after the post processing is complete...

I'll likely be posting the new version (V4) tomorrow...

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #390 on: December 14, 2013, 04:10:44 PM »
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Quick Update: Raising my MAIN temp for PLA from 195 to 205 definitely has eliminated the extruder skipping during the second purge (remaining layers)...

I am currently testing: PLA=205/250/150 and ABS= 262/280/150 (Which are the Native CubeX slicer temps for prints made in the Normal (Precise) setting)

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1looooopy1
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #391 on: December 14, 2013, 04:22:31 PM »
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Evanevery,
I agree with the higher temperatures. At least for the CubeX filament which seem to like it hotter.
I run PLA first layer 220, Main 205. ABS first layer 270, Main 265. This is for 15/25/25 and 20/25/25 speeds.
I don't need to run the first layer hotter because of the heated printbed. If you don't have a heated printbed (standard CubeX) the first layer temp needs to be at least 230 for PLA and 275 for ABS to get good adhesion.

I am pretty sure I ran with the new .ini files when I tested the new CubeIt. I just printed a 15x15x15 cube. I did not get a puddle, but got voids mainly on the first surface side of the cube when it goes around.

Once you have V4, I will test it again too.

thank you.

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treemagnet
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #392 on: December 14, 2013, 05:27:10 PM »
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where was cubeit V3 was it labeled v3 I don't remember seeing it
Thanks
Tom

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #393 on: December 14, 2013, 05:30:03 PM »
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My speeds are FAST=30/58/66 and PRECISE=17/28/38 (as interpolated from the native CubeX Slicer Speeds). Although, I print almost exclusively at the PRECISE end of the adjustment)

My PLA print finished perfectly at these speeds and the above temps.

I am just starting my ABS test print...

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #394 on: December 14, 2013, 05:33:31 PM »
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I posted V3 on page 21 of this thread (Post 311). Be sure to use the CUBEIT.INI included in the archive.

However, there will be a V4 tomorrow...
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1looooopy1
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #395 on: December 14, 2013, 06:21:22 PM »
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Evenevery,
In your newest version, will all the defaults be as you used it?
I do think it is important when testing your new or prior versions not to monkey with your settings initially to get a direct comparison and also use Cubify filament. Using aftermarket filament throws in a whole new variable. (I think Pensky mentioned it too).
The CubeX is very sensitive to the correct filament diameter (1.70mm). Smaller or larger, you will have problems (I tried). Many aftermarket filaments are 1.72 to 1.75 (too thick) and if they vary much in thickness it is not good either. It might work for a little bit but problems will show eventually.
The extruder does not accommodate different thicknesses since the drive gear and pulley are fixed in distance. (I an earlier post I attached pictures that another user created from the extruder internals).
I think some users have found some right fitting aftermarket filament, but I am not sure what brand.
Also important especially for PLA, that is stored with extra desiccant to prevent it from getting brittle.

In my opinion, I have printed a lot of parts and did not see any needed fixes in the earlier CubeIt version except the material removal in the code so you don't need cartridge and the auto cubeIt post processing. I get quite clean and accurate parts with the settings I posted earlier today.

I do have a improvement wish list, but that for another time once this is sorted out.

Thank you for a great software to finally have the cubeX print up to its potential. Hope you keep further developing it. The pro license price is very cheap for what it can do compared to the original CubeX software.

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treemagnet
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #396 on: December 14, 2013, 06:42:32 PM »
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great thanks evanevery keep up the good work
Tom

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PenskeGuy
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Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #397 on: December 14, 2013, 07:16:46 PM »
Quote
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on December 14, 2013, 06:21:22 PM
The CubeX is very sensitive to the correct filament diameter (1.70mm). Smaller or larger, you will have problems (I tried). Many aftermarket filaments are 1.72 to 1.75 (too thick) and if they vary much in thickness it is not good either. It might work for a little bit but problems will show eventually.
The extruder does not accommodate different thicknesses since the drive gear and pulley are fixed in distance.
I think some users have found some right fitting aftermarket filament, but I am not sure what brand.
Also important especially for PLA, that is stored with extra desiccant to prevent it from getting brittle.

Ahhhh. yet another proprietary bullshit move by 3D Systems! Produce non-standard filament diameter and make your drive mechanism non-adjustable to accommodate any variances. Industry standard for narrow filament is 1.75mm, That, according to loopy, is too thick. I hate those clowns even more, and I thought that wasn't possible.

treemagnet
Newbie

Posts: 14

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #398 on: December 15, 2013, 05:22:09 AM »
Quote
Brand new cubex cartridge and it jams I am sick of these cartridges. Fortunately I don't pay for them but I would say 50% of the cartridges I have have to be taken apart and run on a separate spool. where do you buy you bulk filament

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #399 on: December 15, 2013, 07:15:40 AM »
Quote
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on December 14, 2013, 06:21:22 PM
Evenevery,
In your newest version, will all the defaults be as you used it?
I do think it is important when testing your new or prior versions not to monkey with your settings initially to get a direct comparison and also use Cubify filament.

I agree completely. The only major change in logic between V3 and V4 is that CubeIt now reads and parses the Kisslicer comments in the source print file. I am doing this because, with the higher PLA temps we are seeing used by the Native CubeX Slicer, its really not safe to rely an a threshold/border temp to try and detect what type of material is being used. CubeIt now reads the comments and uses the "material_name" comment for each extruder to detect the associated material type. Although, V4 of CubeIt still works by doing complete "PSP" (Prime/Suck/Purge) block replacement/inserts, we now have a little more latitude and flexibility with the temps we are specifying for the materials (set in KISSLICER).

I have finished running both PLA and ABS tests on my machine with V4 and all came out absolutely perfect. I just sat down to prepare the V4 release message to include all the integration details and considerations so folks who are just joining us don't have to scour multiple messages for the required info. I will also post my KISSLICER INI's in the archive so people can also use those settings as a starting point if they wish.

Its Sunday, and I've got some waffles coming my way, so I have to set some time aside for higher priorities. I should have the new version up in the next hour or so...

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #400 on: December 15, 2013, 09:02:08 AM »
Quote
I have attached the latest version of CUBEIT to this message (V4.00).

Please read all of the following info before you deploy the new version. We are attempting to do as much as possible with KISSLICER and ONLY do stuff with CubeIt if it can NOT be accomplished within KISSLICER. (No need to reinvent the wheel..)

*** I have included my Materials, Styles, Printers, and Supports INI's in this distro. Please be careful not to unpack the archive on top of your existing files if you do not want to replace them! Extracting to a temp folder (and then moving the files) is recommended. I'm not done tweaking all the associated settings in these files, but the required changes are already implemented in them.

NOTES: On Integration

In order to use KISSLICER and CUBEIT, please do the following:

* Copy the CUBEIT.EXE and CUBEIT.INI file from the attached archive into your KISSLICER program directory. (Note that the CubeIt.ini files are version specific! Don't try and use an INI file from an older version of CubeIt.)

* Enable the CUBEIT post-processor in KISSLICER by adding the following command to the PRINTER -> FIRMWARE -> Post-Process Field:

CUBEIT.EXE "<FILE>"

* Set PRINTER -> FIRMWARE -> FIRMWARE TYPE: Bits From Bytes Printers
* Set PRINTER -> FIRMWARE -> FILE EXTENSION: bfb

* Set PRINTER -> FIRMWARE -> INCLUDE COMMENTS: Enabled (REQUIRED: CUBEIT reads the comments for info it needs (and then discards them))

* Set PTR G-CODE -> PREFIX: (Add the proprietary CubeX "^Firmware" setting)

^Firmware:V1.07
; [mm] mode
G21
; absolute mode
G90

* Set PTR G-CODE -> SELECT EXTRUDER: (Delete unused "5D style" commands)

; Select extruder, warm, purge
; BfB-style
M<EXT+1>04 S<TEMP>
M542

M55<EXT+1> P32000 S90
M543

(Note that parameters for the M55x command are completely irrelevant as they will be discarded and reset using the contents of the CUBEIT.INI file)

* Set PTR G-CODE -> DESELECT EXTRUDER: (Delete unused "5D Style" Commands)

; Guaranteed same extruder, cooling down
; BfB-style
M<EXT+1>04 S<TEMP>

* Make sure your Material Name(s) has/have the approriate key string in them so CUBEIT can identify what type of material they are (ABS/PLA). The easiest way to do this is to be sure that your ABS Material Definitions have the letters "ABS" somewhere in the name, and that PLA Material names have "PLA" somewhere in their name. (These "key" strings can be modified/set in CUBEIT.INI)

As you save your print file (*.bfb) from KISSLICER, CubeIt will automatically run to post-process it. The original KISSLICER output file will be saved as "*.bfb.bak" and you can copy the resulting "*.bfb" file directly to your USB key, put it in the printer, select your file, and print away! (You DO NOT want to rename the *.bfb file to *.cubex!)

NOTES: on Settings

You can use the KISSLICER INI files in the attached archive to get started. The included files are the ones that I am currently using. (Note that I have only 2 Extruders in my CubeX).

Here are some of the important KISSLICER settings which I am using. I am running almost exclusively at the PRECISE speed setting, 20% infill, with 0.25mm layers. I have run both PLA and ABS with my test model (includes both perimeter and infill) and the prints are perfect:

Printer Speeds (Printer -> Speed -> FAST/PRECISE -> Perimeter / Solid Infill Support /Sparse Infill):

FAST: 30 / 58 / 66
PRECISE: 17 / 28 / 38

(The above values were obtained by running several native CubeX Slicer tests to determine the default speeds)

Material Temps (Material -> Main Temp / 1st Layer Temp / Keep Warm Temp):

ABS: 262 / 280 / 150
PLA: 205 / 250 / 150

(The above values were obtained by running several native CubeX Slicer tests to determine the default temps)

NOTES: On CUBEIT Operation

* CUBEIT will read the KISSLICER output file to Post-Process it. It saves the original file as *.bfb.bak. The updated file will be saved with the original name (*.bfb).

* CUBEIT reads all the KISSLICER comments in the original file in order to extract some info it needs. Specifically, it reads the "Material Names" from the KISSLICER comments to determine what type of material is loaded into each one of your extruders. You MUST enable comments in KISSLICER in order for CubeIt to run.

* CUBEIT discards all KISSLICER comments from the original file as it writes the new output file.

* As CUBEIT processes the original input file, it watches for each time an extruder is purged (M551, M552, M553). This always appears to be done whenever an extruder temp is changed (Once for the 1st Layer, and once for the remaining Layers). The extruder is moved to the wipe area (M541), temp is changed (M104/M204/M304), a purge is run (M551/M552/M553), and the Prime/Suck settings are adjusted (M227/M228). It should be noted that the Purge commnd does not always run in the same order relative to the Prime/Suck settings and that the actual parameters change (1st Layer different than Rest of Layers). The CubeX also apparently uses some proprietary settings on the "Purge Disable" command (M228). Since KISSLICER does not have the logic to adjust these parameters and relationships properly, that is something CUBEIT will do as a post processor. Since the proprietary method which the CubeX printer uses with the M55x/M228/M227 commands is not fully understood (yet), CubeIt simply uses the user definable "PSP" blocks (Prime/Suck/Purge) in the CUBEIT.INI file to make substitutions in the original file. (The values in my default CUBEIT.INI file use EXACTLY the same values, in exactly the same order, as the native CubeX slicer). The first time CUBEIT sees a temp being set for an extruder using ABS, it will substitute the "[PSPBlock ABS First]" block in the CUBEIT.INI file for the associated M55x command. Subsequent temp settings for an ABS Extruder will susbstitute the "[PSPBlock ABS Rest]" block for the M55x command. Same rules apply for extruders with PLA loaded ([PSPBlock PLA First], [PSPBlock PLA Rest]). Any susbsequent M227 (Prime/Suck) commands in the original file are simply discarded since we include them in our "PSP" blocks.

* If you would like to adjust your Prime/Suck settings you MUST do this in the PSP blocks in the CUBEIT.INI file. Any/All Prime/Suck settings in the original KISSLICER file are completely discarded. CUBEIT uses proprietary implementations of these settings so there is little hope that any of the associated parameters set in KISSLICER will be implemented properly. Once we understand how these proprietary implementations are used, maybe I will be able to update CUBEIT to read and adjust the KISSLICER output accordingly. Right now, however, the best bet is to simply swap in the PSP parameter blocks exactly the same way the native CubeX slicer is preparing/arranging them. (I have documented this behavior a couple of times in past messages in this thread if anyone are interested).

* Other than the Prime/Suck/Purge commands which MUST be set in the CUBEIT.INI file, the rest of your settings should be done using the KISSLICER interface. Once we figure out exactly how the CubeX uses their proprietary Prime/Suck/Purge commands, it might then be possible to update CubeIt to read and process that data from the original print files...

Have fun! Feedback is always appreciated.

CubeIt_v400.zip (307.15 kB - downloaded 39 times.)
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1looooopy1
Newbie

Posts: 34

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #401 on: December 15, 2013, 11:17:35 AM »
Quote
Evanevery,
Thank you for the updated version. I printed it per your instructions and settings with brand new CubeX white ABS.
See pictures of results. The picture is looking at the first printed side of the cube, where the print starts. When it was printing, you could see sometimes at the beginning of the print layer that the filament coming out was not enough and did not attach and leave gaps.
- The first cube on the left was with v400 and your files and exact settings.
- The second cube was same as the first cube but with setting the extrusion width to 0.59 and the flow tweak to 1.15 (my standard setting for 0.25 layer)
- The third cube (on the right) was going back and using the original CubeIt versions and settings I am using (screenshots I posted earlier).

Attached is also the cube .stl file I used for testing.
Calibration test cube 15x15x15.STL (0.67 kB - downloaded 7 times.)

SAM_4593.JPG (1494.28 kB, 2773x1195 - viewed 36 times.)

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #402 on: December 15, 2013, 12:55:18 PM »
Quote
My stuff is all rock solid so we'll have to dig and see what is different. I'll run your test cube through my machine using my settings and ABS CubeX filament and see what pops out...

Thanks for posting the STL file.

I'm currently printing a hub for hanging generic print spindles inside my cubex and this will likely take an hour or so before I can try anything else...

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joestefano
Newbie

Posts: 12

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #403 on: December 15, 2013, 01:23:29 PM »
Quote
Ran V4 with new INI. files I ran this test twice. I got a Temp Error at the beginning of the 2nd layer both times.

Temp Error.jpg (912.48 kB, 3264x2448 - viewed 12 times.)
Test Box 1x1_025wall.bfb.bak (42.44 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
Test Box 1x1_025wall.bfb (28.14 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
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joestefano
Newbie

Posts: 12

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #404 on: December 15, 2013, 02:07:25 PM »
Quote
Disregard the last post. I found a burned plug going to EXT 1.

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Bkjnky

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Dec 27, 2013, 1:28:08 AM12/27/13

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evanevery
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Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #405 on: December 15, 2013, 02:58:08 PM »
Quote
1looooopy1,

I'm running your test file through my machine now. So far, I can't see any issues...

I'm attaching an archive containing my *.bfb and *.bfb.bak files is you want to examine them or see if my *.bfb file prints any differently for you...

What version firmware do you have in your machine? (1.07?)
Calibration test cube 15x15x15.zip (61.9 kB - downloaded 7 times.)

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evanevery
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Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #406 on: December 15, 2013, 03:25:39 PM »
Quote
1Looooopy1:

Other than my Z-Gap being a little tight on the first layer, the cube looks good. I do see a couple of spots on one side where there are some very, very small pits, but it doesn't appear to have any pattern, there are only a few, and I have to look very closely...

Have you tried increasing the prime value in the [PSPBlock ABS Rest] in CubeIt.ini?

[PSPBlock ABS Rest]
Line1=M227 P99 S201
Line2=M228 P0 S73
Line3=M55x P2499 S150.000

Maybe push it up a little from 99 and see what happens. Since we're not sure exactly how the proprietary M228 command is working you might have to work with both if you want to richen up your prime a little. The other way to go might be to decrease the suck (S201). Maybe we are very close to pulling some air into the extruder...

What do your prime/suck command pairs (M227/M228) look like in the V2 file when you get your best prints?

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1looooopy1
Newbie

Posts: 34

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #407 on: December 15, 2013, 04:03:52 PM »
Quote
Evanevery,
I am using firmware 1.07.
With the old version, I just have Prime at 0.05 and Suck at 1.
I will try and print your .bfb file.

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1looooopy1
Newbie

Posts: 34

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #408 on: December 15, 2013, 05:16:10 PM »
Quote
Evanevery,
I used your .bfb of the test cube and printed it. (just put on memory stick and print).
The attached picture has yours on the left and then the other 3 are the ones from my initial test earlier.
So the second cube from the left is with the same settings as yours, except that I created the build file on my computer.
The very bottom layers have the biggest voids right at the beginning of the print layer.
As you can see the first and second cube look very similar how they came out. Those results are good for trouble shooting, because it indicates system variations. As you can see from my prior test prints, the voids got much less when I increase the extrusion width and flow tweak.
Maybe my print jet diameter is slightly different or the extruder drive current is slightly different. Knowing the poor quality control the manufacturer has, no surprise if every machine is slightly different.
Probably if I run the thin wall calibration, it would tell me that the extrusion width or flow tweak need to be bumped up.
If you measure the cube outside dimensions, they are both a little short (except height).
So that would make all sense?
Your latest version is probably good, but each printer needs different extrusion width or flow tweak. That calibration should be done anyway. And prime / suck might need to be tweaked too, but that's fine as long as it can be adjusted in a way that makes sense.

One more thing, if you look at the picture from the bottom of the cubes, you can see that the new version has a very sharp start, vs the old version leaves a tiny puddle. (top left corner of cubes in picture is the start point) I never minded the tiny puddle because it can be cut away easily.

Unfortunately I have to prepare for a travel trip and won't be able to do more testing this year.
Happy holidays.

SAM_4616.JPG (283.3 kB, 1212x414 - viewed 20 times.)

SAM_4617.JPG (240.89 kB, 1110x375 - viewed 19 times.)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 10:47:31 PM by 1looooopy1 »
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meetjoeblack

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Posts: 2

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #409 on: December 15, 2013, 06:29:58 PM »
Quote
Evanevery,
I am really glad I stumbled onto this forum.
I am a designer and my new partners had this Cubex printer to develop a prototype on, so I brought it home, and OMG, what a nightmare.
The hardware is OK, and sure, there is a learning curve, but the software is is frightening.
I had sucess right off the bat, but then every part failed. One part ran so bad, I seriously thought the machine printhead might snap off, so I killed the build.
Against my better judgement, I read the manual. Jeez. In spite of that, I plan on making this stupid machine sing.
That's where you and the astronaut-looking dude come in, lol.
You guys understand this stuff intimately, and I learned a ton from you both reading this forum.
Can I be you guys pal? ha ha
I will report my successes, though I may hide my failures. I'm not proud...
Best Regards, JB

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1looooopy1
Newbie

Posts: 34

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #410 on: December 15, 2013, 06:46:31 PM »
Quote
meetjoeblack
There is a CubeX blog with info:
http://cubex3dprinting.blogspot.com/

and user group.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/cubex-3d-printing

Yes the CubeX hardware is good, but Kisslicer is essential for the CubeX to get good prints.
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meetjoeblack

Newbie

Posts: 2

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #411 on: December 15, 2013, 07:09:56 PM »
Quote
Hi 1looooopy1,
Sweet! Thank you.
I will definitely peruse those links.
Here's a link to the thing I am going to make, in case you're bored...
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n9hcbvmm2bbtv1c/wpqUoeVL9_
JB

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #412 on: December 16, 2013, 06:48:55 AM »
Quote
1Looooopy1:

It appears you're getting things sorted out. Although my prints (on my machine) look pretty good, I don't doubt that there is still room for improvement.

Hopefully, CubeIt will serve as a useful vehicle in getting the Prime/Suck/Purge settings (M227, M228, M55x) figured out and optimized. Once we crack the proprietary implementation that the CubeX uses, it will be a lot easier to control those settings directly from within KISSLICER.

From where we are now, It appears that settings which are most useful in tweaking a prints appearance are the Prime/Suck/Purge settings (Set in CUBEIT.INI), and the extrusion width and flow tweak (Set in KISSLICER). As folks tweak these settings and find improvement, it would be great to discuss the observations (and settings here). I'll gladly spend the time improving the CubeIt code if everyone else can work on the settings!

However, the most beneficial thing we can work to uncover right now, is an understanding of how the CubeX proprietary Prime/Suck/Purge commands work. They are not always generated in the same order (between 1st and following layers), they don't always use the same parameter values (between 1st and following layers), and the parameter values are a bit odd. Additionally, the M228 command is obviously doing something undocumented with its extra parameters. (Take a look at the "PSP" groups in CUBEIT.INI if you want to see how the native CubeX slicer implements these). I'm not a big fan of splitting the tweaks and adjustments between KISSLICER and CUBEIT.INI. I'ld like to work towards being able to establish ALL the settings in KISSLICER and just manage the proprietary logic and adjustments with CubeIt. However, we need to figure out whats up with the "PSP" groups and parameters before I can do that...

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Hugues
Newbie

Posts: 3

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #413 on: December 16, 2013, 10:51:46 AM »
Quote
Hello !
First, thanks Evanevery for your work !
I've tested with cubit V4, i 'll post a picture tomorow. Cubit work really well when i set a 0.125 extruder and associate parameters compare to 0.1.

Thanks to all !

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joestefano
Newbie

Posts: 12

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #414 on: December 16, 2013, 10:59:48 AM »
Quote
FYI. everyone should check the plug for your extruders where it connects to the circuit board. If it is just slightly loose it will cause an arc and will burn the contacts leading to a TEMP Error. I have contacted support, wish me luck!

Burned-Plug_.jpg (25.91 kB, 400x300 - viewed 15 times.)

Burned-Contact_.jpg (31.77 kB, 400x300 - viewed 14 times.)
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AeroJack

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Posts: 6

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #415 on: December 16, 2013, 01:51:18 PM »
Quote
The native CubeX slicer has a setting for a 0.5 mm layer thickness.

Doesn't that imply that the nozzle diameter is greater than 0.5 mm?

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PenskeGuy
Hero Member

Posts: 1264
Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #416 on: December 16, 2013, 02:17:11 PM »
Quote
No. The 3D Touch, its ancestor, has a 0.5mm nozzle and 0.5mm layer thickness option. Nozzle diameters only partially determine how thick/wide an extrusion cross section can be. There are limits in both directions, obviously, but the range is fairly wide and not a hard relationship.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 02:25:08 PM by PenskeGuy »

BillDempsey

Newbie

Posts: 14

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #417 on: December 16, 2013, 02:31:22 PM »
Quote
On the KISSlicer topic:
I'm having trouble working out KISSlicer settings to give the best print quality. I actually had it printing nearly perfect until I accidentally overwrote my ini files with the ones from CubeIt.exe 4. That messed my prints up so bad they became a blobby mess and had to be aborted. I've been tweaking for two days now trying to get it back to perfect, but it still seems to put extra globs of plastic all over every layer. As it builds, the globs get smoothed down a bit by the next layer until it gets to the top and then it's just a rough top surface. I entered accurate filament measurements. I put the flow rate back to 1.0.

The strange thing is, it doesn't do the blobbing on larger rectilinear parts. Those have smooth layers. It shows up when I try to print cylinders with about 30 mm outer diameter and 24 mm inner diameter. I'm suspecting that the cylinders are getting sliced badly. Perhaps I need to adjust my loops and wall thickness? Any other ideas?

On another topic:
I just had a hot end fall apart. The bottom half was dragging by the heater wires around on the build plate. The top half was still firmly mounted in head. It broke in the space between a couple of the aluminum fins. I still don't know what caused it, since the nozzles were well above the platform. Quality control? Not! Luckily, I had a spare that was slightly damaged but functional.

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PenskeGuy
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Posts: 1264
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #418 on: December 16, 2013, 03:03:41 PM »
Quote
You don't say what the Style settings were. I'd suggest printing cylindrical parts with all Loops, no Infill.

BillDempsey

Newbie

Posts: 14

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #419 on: December 16, 2013, 03:55:29 PM »
Quote
The plate contained both cylindrical items and rectangular items. I changed the skin to 1 and the loops to 2 and got a big improvement. That must be what I originally had them set at. Now, the cylinders are coming out mostly good (no blobs), but have a single line gap between the inner and outer walls.

Thanks for the helpful suggestion. I hate to do it, but I may have to put the cylinders on a separate plate. I'm used to filling the plate with a bunch of different parts on my Ultimakers (1&2) and just printing with no problems. In fact, a plate of 13 different parts is printing right now on my Ultimaker 2 while I'm tweaking and testing the CubeX.

Plate of Parts (800x600).jpg (186.08 kB, 800x600 - viewed 18 times.)

Bkjnky

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Dec 27, 2013, 1:29:03 AM12/27/13

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BillDempsey
Newbie

Posts: 14

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #420 on: December 16, 2013, 04:02:09 PM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 16, 2013, 03:03:41 PM

You don't say what the Style settings were. I'd suggest printing cylindrical parts with all Loops, no Infill.

Skin 1

Loops 2
Stacked Sparse Infill 1

Inset Surface 0

Extrusion Width 0.6
Infill Extrusion Width 0.6
Layer Thickness 0.25

Loops from inside to perimeter ON

5% infill - rounded
Wipe and Destring ON

Seam Hiding 1.0
Jitter 0

Thanks for making me look at all of these settings while listing. It looks like the 5% infill is the problem. That was supposed to be set at 100% since the style I'm using is called "CubeX - Solid Infill."

*sigh* Sometimes I swear I'm blind.

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bsmith19dot98
Jr. Member

Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #421 on: December 16, 2013, 06:25:02 PM »
Quote
You can run multiple set-ups of Kisslicer on the same pc.

When KS runs it grabs its .ini files from the folder that it launched from.

Create a new folder for your experimental setup.
Copy all of the files from your "production installation" folder into the experimental folder.
Double click kisslicer.exe in the experimental folder.
I usually copy my stl file to the experimental folder however you can open files from other folders.

When you are ready, copy the production folder to a backup and the experimental folder to production.

I currently have one production folder and two different experimental folders.

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PenskeGuy
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Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #422 on: December 16, 2013, 06:45:46 PM »
Quote
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on December 16, 2013, 06:25:02 PM
You can run multiple set-ups of Kisslicer on the same pc.

When KS runs it grabs its .ini files from the folder that it launched from.

Some settings are saved in the prefs file, so will cross versions but most will be able to be segregated in localized .ini files.

PenskeGuy
Hero Member

Posts: 1264
Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #423 on: December 16, 2013, 06:52:33 PM »
Quote
Quote from: BillDempsey on December 16, 2013, 03:55:29 PM

The plate contained both cylindrical items and rectangular items. I changed the skin to 1 and the loops to 2 and got a big improvement. That must be what I originally had them set at. Now, the cylinders are coming out mostly good (no blobs), but have a single line gap between the inner and outer walls.

The Extrusion Width and modeled wall thickness are in a no-man's land; where another Loop won't fit. Turn on Crowning and that should fill in.

Quote from: BillDempsey on December 16, 2013, 03:55:29 PM

I hate to do it, but I may have to put the cylinders on a separate plate.

On most of my parts, cylindrical or rectilinear, I just use Loops. Have gone up as high as 60. Makes a far better looking surface and is less noisy.

treemagnet

Newbie

Posts: 14

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #424 on: December 16, 2013, 07:14:50 PM »
Quote
kinda of off topic but is there a good doc that explains what loops skin crown.... what all these mean and do?

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #425 on: December 16, 2013, 07:57:16 PM »
Quote
Search the forum for: "Idiots Guide".

Hugues
Newbie

Posts: 3

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #426 on: December 17, 2013, 12:07:36 AM »
Quote
Hello,
This is my cube test in 0.125, i've to adjust my flow tweak but i'm really happy with this result.

I think to increase the temp to avoid the crack or i will test to enclose my printer.

CubeTest.jpg (2865.99 kB, 2448x3264 - viewed 40 times.)
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Romanfix

Newbie

Posts: 6

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #427 on: December 17, 2013, 08:14:18 AM »
Quote
I have a question about using kisslicer and cubeit. My prints are ok - still working on them, but my question is how in the world do I print with 2 colors? I have red in number 1 and blue in number 2. I painted them in Sketchup and created the .stl file there. opened and processed with KISSlicer and Cubeit. All I get is one color.... What am I doing wrong?
BTW Using Pro version KISSlicer
Thanks!
E
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 08:46:55 AM by Romanfix »
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BillDempsey
Newbie

Posts: 14

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #428 on: December 17, 2013, 09:04:15 AM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 16, 2013, 06:52:33 PM
The Extrusion Width and modeled wall thickness are in a no-man's land; where another Loop won't fit. Turn on Crowning and that should fill in.

I have the Crowning Threshold set at 0.05. Is there a separate spot to "turn it on?" Somehow, I'm not seeing it.

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #429 on: December 17, 2013, 09:09:11 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Romanfix on December 17, 2013, 08:14:18 AM
I have a question about using kisslicer and cubeit. My prints are ok - still working on them, but my question is how in the world do I print with 2 colors?

CubeIt will work with whatever extruders are being used in your KISSLICER prints. You need to get KISSLICER working with multiple extruders and CubeIt will work with them just fine. So your question should be "How do I get KISSLICER working with multiple color filaments?"

Personally, I have not had a need to do that, but there is the extruder mapping page in KISSLICER which will let you use different extruders for different entities (supports, etc).

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bsmith19dot98
Jr. Member

Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #430 on: December 17, 2013, 10:58:49 AM »
Quote
Kisslicer does not currently support multiple extruders (colors) per object. It only supports different extruders for the object, interface, support, and raft.
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bkjnky
Newbie

Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #431 on: December 17, 2013, 11:52:38 AM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: Hugues on December 17, 2013, 12:07:36 AM
Hello,
This is my cube test in 0.125, i've to adjust my flow tweak but i'm really happy with this result.

I think to increase the temp to avoid the crack or i will test to enclose my printer.

I picked up this enclosure trick from the cubex blog, but for less that $30 I've seen an improvement. First I pre-heat the bed and then set z gap and enclose using the .005 plastic sheets held in place by strategically placed magnets. the prints seem to stick much better and the temp inside the box is much more stable allowing slow cooling with sell tendency to warp or lift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT3blsZ_b6k&feature=share&list=UUsYcv7SZALOJc-2OCVDjhGg

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bkjnky
Newbie

Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #432 on: December 17, 2013, 03:39:14 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
any chance th M55X Pxxx Sxxx S setting may be the determining factor in the prime/suck question?

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bkjnky
Newbie

Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #433 on: December 17, 2013, 11:28:14 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Ran the following tests using cubeitV4 to try and get some documentation around Purge/Prime/Suck M227/M228 . Hope this is helpful.

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P0 S0
M228 P0 S0
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
NO SUCK OR PRIME MOTION ON FIRST LAYER
VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW ON FIRST LAYER, ALMOST NONE FOR INITIAL 50MM
NO SUCK OR PRIME ON SECOND OR SUBSQUENT LAYERS
VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW FLOW FOR FIRST 50MM AFTER LAYER START

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P0 S0
DELETED M228 P0 S0
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
NO SUCK OR PRIME MOTION ON FIRST LAYER
VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW ON FIRST LAYER, ALMOST NONE FOR INITIAL 50MM
NO SUCK OR PRIME ON SECOND OR SUBSEQUENT LAYERS
VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW FLOW FOR FIRST 50MM AFTER LAYER START

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P800 S0
M228 P0 S0
M543
NO SUCK ON TRAVEL TO FIRST PRINT POINT.
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
BIG PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
NO SUCK AND NO PRIME MOTION AFTER INITIAL LAYER

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P0 S0
M543
NO SUCK ON TRAVEL TO FIRST PRINT POINT.
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
VERY SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S1
M228 P0 S0
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR VERY LONG TIME, POSSIBLY 10+ SECONDS, EXTRUDER WAS TURNING CLOCKWISE AT ALMOST UNRECOGNIZABLEY SLOW SPEED.
EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S10
M228 P0 S0
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR APPROXIMATELY 6 SECONDS, EXTRUDER WAS TURNING CLOCKWISE AT SLIGHTLY FASTER SPEED THAN PREVIOUS TEST SPEED.
EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S150
M228 P0 S0
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR APPROXIMATELY .5 SECONDS, EXTRUDER TURNED CLOCKWISE TO QUICKLY TO DISTINGUISH SEPARATION FROM START OF PRINT.
EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P0 S0
M228 P800 S0
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
NO SUCK OR PRIME MOTION ON FIRST LAYER
VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW ON FIRST LAYER, ALMOST NONE FOR INITIAL 50MM
NO SUCK OR PRIME ON SECOND OR SUBSEQUENT LAYERS
VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW FLOW FOR FIRST 50MM AFTER LAYER START

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P0 S0
M228 P0 S800
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
NO SUCK OR PRIME MOTION ON FIRST LAYER
VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW ON FIRST LAYER, ALMOST NONE FOR INITIAL 50MM
NO SUCK OR PRIME ON SECOND OR SUBSEQUENT LAYERS
VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW FLOW FOR FIRST 50MM AFTER LAYER START

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P1 S0
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P150 S0
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2

M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P0 S1
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P0 S150
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P0 S800
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P150 S1
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S150
M228 P0 S150
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S150
M228 P0 S800
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S300
M228 P0 S800
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2

M104 S230
M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S300
M228 S800 P0
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER

M542
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S300
M228 S1 P0
M543
NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER

50x50x5 front right.bfb.bak (16.87 kB - downloaded 0 times.)
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50x50x5 front right.bfb (6.25 kB - downloaded 3 times.)
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bsmith19dot98
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Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #434 on: December 18, 2013, 06:21:26 AM »
Quote
Excellent work and documentation. I basically ran the same test although not as organized and well documented. I basically had the same observations.

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Bkjnky

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Dec 27, 2013, 1:29:51 AM12/27/13

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #435 on: December 18, 2013, 06:30:40 AM »
Quote
bjknjy,

Thats a lot of really great info! However, it looks like you are only adjusting the parameters in ONE of the PSP blocks. For either material you use (ABS/PLA), there are TWO PSP blocks in CUBEIT.INI which will be applied! One block ("PSPBLOCK ABS/PLA FIRST") gets inserted for the config of the nozzle in the first layer, the other block ("PSPBLOCK ABS/PLA REST") is inserted just before the rest of the print starts. Both KISSLICER and the native CUBEX slicer do a nozzle setup once before the initial layer, and then once more just after the first layer (for the rest of the print). KISSLICER and CUBEX do this somewhat differently which is why CUBEIT simply does a wholesale insert of the "CUBEX" proprietary style in place of the "KISSLICER generic style.

It looks like you are only adjusting the parameters in the "FIRST" PSP block and not the "REST" PSP block in the CUBEIT.INI file. I say this because you only list the contents of a single PSP block for each of your tests and also because the M55x command is always BEFORE the M227/M228 commands in your blocks. CUBEX always puts the M55x AFTER the M227/M228 commands for the second nozzle config that occurs after the first layer. (This is how the default PSP blocks in CUBEIT are also implemented).

If you are only making changes to the "FIRST" PSP block in CUBEIT (or in your print file manually), then you will likely never see any changes in anything but the first layer. This is all OK as long as you realize that... The default values for the "PSP" Blocks in the CUBEIT.INI file are simply the same as what is being done by the native CUBEX slicer. Note that the "first" layer blocks differ from the "rest" layer blocks not only in the parameter values which are being applied, but also in the order in which the commands are generated.

I'll sit down with your info as soon as I have some time to analyze your findings. Thanks for all the great info. Hopefully a pattern will emerge...

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #436 on: December 18, 2013, 06:51:23 AM »
Quote
bjknjy,

I took the liberty of cleaning up your parameter listings. This might make it easier to look at an process. The M104, M542, and M543 commands in your listings are always the same (and irrelevant in any case) so there is no point in looking at them (they are just noise wrt observations). I may also put them in a spreadsheet so all the parameters can be columnized and changes easily tracked. I have not removed any of your "Layer 2" comments, but as I've commented in my earlier message - any layer 2 (and subsequent) observations will be completely irrelevant if you are not making any adjustments to the second time the nozzle is set/purged in your print file...

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P0 S0
M228 P0 S0

* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* NO SUCK OR PRIME MOTION ON FIRST LAYER
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW ON FIRST LAYER, ALMOST NONE FOR INITIAL 50MM
* NO SUCK OR PRIME ON SECOND OR SUBSQUENT LAYERS
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW FLOW FOR FIRST 50MM AFTER LAYER START

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P0 S0
DELETED M228 P0 S0

* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* NO SUCK OR PRIME MOTION ON FIRST LAYER
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW ON FIRST LAYER, ALMOST NONE FOR INITIAL 50MM
* NO SUCK OR PRIME ON SECOND OR SUBSEQUENT LAYERS
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW FLOW FOR FIRST 50MM AFTER LAYER START

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P800 S0
M228 P0 S0

* NO SUCK ON TRAVEL TO FIRST PRINT POINT.
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* BIG PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* NO SUCK AND NO PRIME MOTION AFTER INITIAL LAYER

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P0 S0

* NO SUCK ON TRAVEL TO FIRST PRINT POINT.
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* VERY SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S1
M228 P0 S0

* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR VERY LONG TIME, POSSIBLY 10+ SECONDS, EXTRUDER WAS TURNING CLOCKWISE AT ALMOST UNRECOGNIZABLEY SLOW SPEED.
* EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S10
M228 P0 S0

* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR APPROXIMATELY 6 SECONDS, EXTRUDER WAS TURNING CLOCKWISE AT SLIGHTLY FASTER SPEED THAN PREVIOUS TEST SPEED.
* EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S150
M228 P0 S0

* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR APPROXIMATELY .5 SECONDS, EXTRUDER TURNED CLOCKWISE TO QUICKLY TO DISTINGUISH SEPARATION FROM START OF PRINT.
* EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P0 S0
M228 P800 S0

* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* NO SUCK OR PRIME MOTION ON FIRST LAYER
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW ON FIRST LAYER, ALMOST NONE FOR INITIAL 50MM
* NO SUCK OR PRIME ON SECOND OR SUBSEQUENT LAYERS
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW FLOW FOR FIRST 50MM AFTER LAYER START

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P0 S0
M228 P0 S800

* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* NO SUCK OR PRIME MOTION ON FIRST LAYER
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW ON FIRST LAYER, ALMOST NONE FOR INITIAL 50MM
* NO SUCK OR PRIME ON SECOND OR SUBSEQUENT LAYERS
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW FLOW FOR FIRST 50MM AFTER LAYER START

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P1 S0

* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P150 S0

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P0 S1

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P0 S150

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P0 S800

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P150 S1

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S150
M228 P0 S150

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S150
M228 P0 S800

* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S300
M228 P0 S800

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S300
M228 S800 P0

M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S300
M228 S1 P0

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #437 on: December 18, 2013, 07:36:47 AM »
Quote
Based on your observations, I'm wondering if CubeX is using the M227 to define the "Prime" parameter and the M228 to define the "Suck"...

Specifically, I'm looking at the following three excerpts from your listing (I've also removed your M541 commands as they are the same throughout your tests and SHOULD only effect the inititial purge to the waste bin anyway):

M227 P150 S1
M228 P0 S0

* UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR VERY LONG TIME, POSSIBLY 10+ SECONDS, EXTRUDER WAS TURNING CLOCKWISE AT ALMOST UNRECOGNIZABLEY SLOW SPEED.
* EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE

M227 P150 S10
M228 P0 S0

* UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR APPROXIMATELY 6 SECONDS, EXTRUDER WAS TURNING CLOCKWISE AT SLIGHTLY FASTER SPEED THAN PREVIOUS TEST SPEED.
* EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE

M227 P150 S150
M228 P0 S0

* UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR APPROXIMATELY .5 SECONDS, EXTRUDER TURNED CLOCKWISE TO QUICKLY TO DISTINGUISH SEPARATION FROM START OF PRINT.
* EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE

Based on the above, it looks like the CUBEX M227 command might only be used to set the PRIME setting. Note that as the "S" parameter changes so does the delay/pause in your printing. If this is true, then the "S" parameter on the M227 command, might be acting very much like the "S" parameter on the generic M541 command. The "S" parameter on the generic M541 command (PURGE), is used to set the extruder RPM speed. The lower the "S" value, the slower the extruder rotates. The "P" parameter on the generic M541 (Purge) command, tells the extruder how much material to eject... So, it appears, when your M227 "S" value is very small, the extruder rotates very slowly and therefore takes a longer time to eject the same amount of material ("P150") compared to when the "S" value is larger... This does appear to be a possibility as it would be somewhat the same type specification as the M541 command...

Generically, the M227 command is used to set both Prime and Suck settings. However, if Cubex "hijacked" the M227 command to provide additional functionality to the "Prime" setting (extruder speed), then there would need to be some other way to set the "Suck" setting. Its conceivable that they decide to use the M228 parameter to do this. If this is true, I might suggest we run some tests to see if the following command construct applies to the CubeX:

M227 P{prime} S{rpm}
M228 P{suck} S{rpm}

This might also explain why CUBEX always uses the M227 and M228 commands as a pair...

We should also note that the native CUBEX slicer appears to always specify a "P0" in its construct (See the default values in CUBEIT.INI). This might mean that only the M228 "S" parameter is significant (amount of material to extrude), or perhaps a setting of "P0" might also mean, Suck the equal amount as the preceding M227 command set for its Prime...

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #438 on: December 18, 2013, 07:51:12 AM »
Quote
Based on what I'm seeing in the native CUBEX slicer prints (see contents of CUBEIT.INI), I'm going to guess that the M227/M228 pairs are being used as follows:

M227 P{prime} S{rpm}
M228 P0 S{suck}

Where the "P0" on the M228 command is irrelevant. The reason I say this is that the "S" parameter used on the M228 line is often EXACTLY equal to the "P" parameter on the M227 line (Native CubeX Slicer Code). You can see this info in the CUBEIT.INI file... We might expect this when Suck and Prime are normally set to equal values...

I can easily rework CUBEIT to take the generic KISSLICER M227 command and split it up into a corresponding CubeX M227/M227 command pair if we can prove this is the case. That would let us move the Prime/Suck settings back into KISSLICER (and out of the CUBEIT.INI file).

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AeroJack
Newbie

Posts: 6

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #439 on: December 18, 2013, 12:46:23 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 18, 2013, 07:51:12 AM
M227 P{prime} S{rpm}

If the S parameter is RPM, it uses an unusual scaling.

I say this because above we have

M227 P150 S1 causing a pause for 10+ seconds,

but

M227 P150 S10 causes a pause for 6 seconds.

If the S parameter was RPM, then the first pause should have been 10 times larger than the second since each command is for 150 steps.
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bkjnky
Newbie

Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #440 on: December 18, 2013, 12:51:41 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Couple of notes regarding my testing results:

I removed the second block as I thought it would be important to test not only the M commands of the block but also the order as they are different for the first vs. subsequent layers.

It appears to me that I did not see any suck with the M227/228 lines after the M551. If someone can test for suck happening with the second block Oder that might be helpful.

If you look at the .bfb file I attached you can see that I left the first block in cubeX native order but deleted the second block after the temp change line. The temp change still returns the head to the wiper, no M542/543 needed. A whole other set of questions... Good luck and thanks for all the hard work. I'm out for the next 5 days so I can't run any more tests for a while but let me know if you have any questions about this set of tests!

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evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #441 on: December 18, 2013, 01:03:07 PM »
Quote
Quote from: AeroJack on December 18, 2013, 12:46:23 PM

If the S parameter is RPM, it uses an unusual scaling.

Yes, but if we run some control tests and change only the M227 "S" parameter, I bet we can figure it out...

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PenskeGuy
Hero Member

Posts: 1264
Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #442 on: December 18, 2013, 02:46:29 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 18, 2013, 07:51:12 AM
M227 P{prime} S{rpm}
M228 P0 S{suck}

OK. One more time. Have you tried P1 on M228? We've seen P1 being used in a non-standard way in another command and they just might do it elsewhere.

evanevery
Full Member

Posts: 100

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #443 on: December 18, 2013, 02:56:17 PM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 18, 2013, 02:46:29 PM
OK. One more time. Have you tried P1 on M228? We've seen P1 being used in a non-standard way in another command and they just might do it elsewhere.

On all the tests I've ever done with the Native CubeX slicer, the M228 has always used a P0 in that position. Never anything else...

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PenskeGuy
Hero Member

Posts: 1264
Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #444 on: December 18, 2013, 03:04:09 PM »
Quote
I know. Not the point. :\

Edit a "1" in there everywhere there is an M228 P0 and see if it does anything different.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 03:07:35 PM by PenskeGuy »

bkjnky
Newbie

Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #445 on: December 18, 2013, 04:13:57 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 18, 2013, 03:04:09 PM
I know. Not the point. :\

Edit a "1" in there everywhere there is an M228 P0 and see if it does anything different.

That was the one test I meant to run, and did, but with an S0 and no other values, dang it!!!

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Romanfix

Newbie

Posts: 6

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #446 on: December 18, 2013, 06:27:08 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 17, 2013, 09:09:11 AM

Quote from: Romanfix on December 17, 2013, 08:14:18 AM
I have a question about using kisslicer and cubeit. My prints are ok - still working on them, but my question is how in the world do I print with 2 colors?

CubeIt will work with whatever extruders are being used in your KISSLICER prints. You need to get KISSLICER working with multiple extruders and CubeIt will work with them just fine. So your question should be "How do I get KISSLICER working with multiple color filaments?"

Personally, I have not had a need to do that, but there is the extruder mapping page in KISSLICER which will let you use different extruders for different entities (supports, etc).

Thanks for clarifying how to ask a question, evanevery. I only wanted to say that I am using both programs, that seem to compliment each other for use with my Cubex Duo. It is very necessary to use 2 and 3 colors at the same time when printing houses for architect's and for completing many prints I do in the medical industry on a regular basis.

So my question is as follows....How do I get KISSLICER working with multiple color filaments with different extruders all within the same print run?

Is this possible or have I wasted my $42.00?

Thanks for any and all help...

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PenskeGuy
Hero Member

Posts: 1264
Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #447 on: December 18, 2013, 09:07:17 PM »
Quote
We really need a Sticky Post for this question.

KISSlicer multiple color is coming in a future release. It is part of the already implemented sub-mesh feature.

No, you haven't "wasted your $42". IMO, you have a far better slicer than whatever else you were using and $42 is chump change, compared to some of the other software licenses I have, at least.

Further, did you read somewhere that KS is multi-color before buying the license?

Romanfix

Newbie

Posts: 6

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #448 on: December 19, 2013, 03:59:11 PM »
Quote
I saw and purchased based on this ...

Multi-Head Printing

You can pick a different extruder for: Raft / Support Base / Support-Model Interface / Model
The 'Wipe Pillar' allows multiple heads to be used without the stringing problem after the head warms up.
Smart Temperature control gives priority to already-warm extruders on any given layer.

I little deceiving none the less...

Thanks for the update, It looks like others have been working on this since May 2013. I hope it will not be long... Tired of buying $99 crappy cartridges for this system. I guess I will hack the ds28e01 so at least I can save on the multi-prints.

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bsmith19dot98
Jr. Member

Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #449 on: December 19, 2013, 06:35:42 PM »
Quote
Before you go to the trouble of hacking the chip, you might want to read post number 207 in this thread.

Bkjnky

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Dec 27, 2013, 1:30:40 AM12/27/13

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PenskeGuy
Hero Member

Posts: 1264
Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #450 on: December 19, 2013, 07:17:15 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Romanfix on December 19, 2013, 03:59:11 PM

I saw and purchased based on this ...

Multi-Head Printing

You can pick a different extruder for: Raft / Support Base / Support-Model Interface / Model
The 'Wipe Pillar' allows multiple heads to be used without the stringing problem after the head warms up.
Smart Temperature control gives priority to already-warm extruders on any given layer.

I little deceiving none the less...

Deceiving? Seriously? Not in the least. It is very clear. Says nothing about multi-color/sub-mesh prints. If you have three extruders, you can choose which to use for what section: Raft, Support, Interface and Model.

« Reply #451 on: December 20, 2013, 06:54:33 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Romanfix on December 19, 2013, 03:59:11 PM

Thanks for the update, It looks like others have been working on this since May 2013. I hope it will not be long... Tired of buying $99 crappy cartridges for this system. I guess I will hack the ds28e01 so at least I can save on the multi-prints.

...or, you could download V1.07 of the native CubeX slicer which leaves behind a plain text copy the the print file (BFB). Then simply edit the BFB file to remove everything in the header except the "^Firmware:V1.07" line...
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krazykarl
Newbie

Posts: 9

Re: CUBEX
« Reply #452 on: December 20, 2013, 07:29:54 AM »
Quote
hey I have a quick question regarding the new cubeit version. currently we use pla to print but we want to attempt using abs. obviously the heating properties are different. are they already implemented in kisslicer?
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krazykarl
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #453 on: December 20, 2013, 07:40:15 AM »
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anyone ever print with taulman nylon?

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #454 on: December 20, 2013, 08:39:33 AM »
Quote
Quote from: krazykarl on December 20, 2013, 07:29:54 AM
hey I have a quick question regarding the new cubeit version. currently we use pla to print but we want to attempt using abs. obviously the heating properties are different. are they already implemented in kisslicer?

Just set up KISSLICER to print using ABS and CUBEIT will follow along. Make sure your material names include "PLA" and/or "ABS" in their KISSLICER description so CUBEIT can map in the appropriate "PSP" blocks for the print... (ABS is pretty much all I use...)
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cglusky
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #455 on: December 20, 2013, 11:14:19 AM »
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First, thanks much to everyone for the work on this project. I run a small business and can't afford a $3K paper weight. I run a CubeX Duo that is down to one print head. I have had so many issues that they are sending me a new printer at my request. We'll see how long it takes to get it. I will say the support has been very good. And I have used it. A lot. Anyway, I thought I would give Kisslicer and CubeIt a shot while my now single head printer still works.

I have been through all 30 pages of this thread just about 3 times now and think I have tracked down the puddle issue on first layer using the latest version of CubeIt. @bsmith19dot98 actually provided the answer back in post #199. I modified the cubeit.ini file so the m55x line follows m227 and it appears to force the "super purge" into the bucket rather than plop it down at the start of the first layer. I have more calibration to do now that I got rid of the puddle, but I am running .75 P/S.

All I did was swap the order of M55x and M227 in the ini file for the first layer of ABS/PLA. Attached.

Some things I noticed while taking notes over the last 42 hours:

- Set PTR G-Code -> Select Extruder -> ... M55<EXT+1> P32000 S90 ... seems to be useless the way the current CubeIt works? It gets replaced with values in the .ini that appear to have been borrowed from some native slicer examples anyway?

- There is mention that the native CubeX slicer starts the first layer at .5 even for a .25 layer thickness. Has anyone had success by using a Z-offset in KS? Or is this just an artifact fro the native slicer that can/should be ignored?

- Can we get another link to the CubeX native slicer v 1.07? The link several pages does not appear to work. I would love to be able to help out but I am on 1.08.

I am off to calibrate...

R,
C

CubeIt.ini (1.64 kB - downloaded 0 times.)

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evanevery
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #456 on: December 20, 2013, 12:21:05 PM »
Quote
Quote from: cglusky on December 20, 2013, 11:14:19 AM
I modified the cubeit.ini file so the m55x line follows m227 and it appears to force the "super purge" into the bucket rather than plop it down at the start of the first layer. I have more calibration to do now that I got rid of the puddle, but I am running .75 P/S.
.
.
.
- Set PTR G-Code -> Select Extruder -> ... M55<EXT+1> P32000 S90 ... seems to be useless the way the current CubeIt works? It gets replaced with values in the .ini that appear to have been borrowed from some native slicer examples anyway?

I am off to calibrate...

Thanks for the info. That is very good.

I am aware of the "Super Purge" observation from a while back. However, my first run on the current logic was to try and emulate the native CubeX slicer program behavior. The good news, is that you can change the behavior any way you want by simply editing the CUBEIT.INI file (as you have done). It was my expectation that the order in which the CUBEX code did the initial M55x placement was to cure the Super Purge issue - not actually cause the problem. That's precisely why it is included in the PSP blocks in CUBEIT.INI. You will also note that the native CubeX slicer not only uses a different order of command placement, but also different parameter values for the M55x commands depending on 1st layer vs rest of print. Kisslicer obviously only has a single set of parameter values which can be specified. It does bear more investigation why only some of us are seeing puddles though...

CUBEIT does replacement of all M55X, M227, and M228 commands in your original file. So any Purge, Prime, and Suck setting done in KISSLICER will be completely ignored. Until we can actually figure out the proprietary use (and arrangement) of these commands, the easiest and most flexible method I could think of was to let the user have complete control of the PSP blocks and their relative organization (via CUBEIT.INI). Of course, the downside to this approach is that it removes the configurability of those settings from within KISSLICER.

I look forward to the time when we actually get a handle on the proprietary implementation of these commands (M55x, M227, M228). Once we understand the proprietary CUBEX implementation, then I will update CUBEIT to massage the settings as implemented by KISSLICER into the proprietary format expected by CubeX. Until then, we should continue to experiment with the PSP (Prime, Suck, Purge) command sets via the CUBEIT.INI file to get a better understanding...

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #457 on: December 20, 2013, 12:26:07 PM »
Quote
Finally someone who bothered to read the entire thread! Respect!!

Definitely put in .25 Z offset in Kisslicer. You can vary this number up and down to fine tune the thickness of the first layer. So if the first layer is a little too squished then increase to .3mm. I usually adjust in .05 increments.

The Cubex software v1.07 is 51mb. I will try to upload as soon I can (maybe this weekend).
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cdlrenee

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #458 on: December 20, 2013, 12:56:48 PM »
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Here's a link to the 1.07 slicer..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3hddbtodtpmxt9a/cubex_software_win%20v1.07.zip
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krazykarl
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #459 on: December 20, 2013, 03:22:50 PM »
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What do you have z gap set to on your cubex for the bed? I keep smearing abs when I print. Very frustrating....

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bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #460 on: December 20, 2013, 04:14:17 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: krazykarl on December 20, 2013, 03:22:50 PM
What do you have z gap set to on your cubex for the bed? I keep smearing abs when I print. Very frustrating....

I set to .20mm for .25mm layer prints

This gets me a 90% success rate on the first later.
1. Home printer
2. Enter z gap program and adjust z height down, don't even measure. Save
3. Enter z gap program and adjust up to desired gap. Save
4. Enter z gap program and if needed adjust to desired gap. Save
5. Print

I think this works better because you are setting the gap while moving the print plate upwards which removes slop. Also if I get too tight I start the process over. Never set the gap down and then print.

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krazykarl
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #461 on: December 20, 2013, 04:22:22 PM »
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Maybe im confused. On the front interface of the cubex i go to zgap and im currently set to 19.2 which is still too close. My prints are sloppy. If iwent to 20 it would be even worse. What do u mean when usay .2?

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #462 on: December 20, 2013, 05:57:00 PM »
Quote
In Kisslicer, click on the Printer tab then the Hardware tab.

In a perfect world the value for "Z Offset (mm)" should be 0.25

In reality this value may need to be adjusted.

Bkjnky makes a really good point about only moving the plate upward when setting the gap.

In a perfect world again, when we set the Z-gap using our perfect feeler gage we actually end up with a perfect 0.1mm gap. Unfortunately my reality never quite adds up. So I run some hollow test cubes and adjust the Z offset value in KS until I get the first layer squish where I want it.

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bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #463 on: December 20, 2013, 09:21:16 PM »
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Quote from: krazykarl on December 20, 2013, 04:22:22 PM
Maybe im confused. On the front interface of the cubex i go to zgap and im currently set to 19.2 which is still too close. My prints are sloppy. If iwent to 20 it would be even worse. What do u mean when usay .2?

When I refer to .20mm I am referring to the actual gap set between the bed and the nozzle as measured with a feeler gauge. By 19.2, I am taking a shot in the dark and guessing you are referring to the value as read on the touch screen of your printer...

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krazykarl
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #464 on: December 21, 2013, 05:00:11 AM »
Quote
yes thats exactly what im refering to as I do not have a feeler guage. I did not mess with a single setting in KS. whatever was loaded when I unzipped the cubeit file is what is there. I followed all setup directions as per evanevery write up. when I slice my print and save to thumb drive, the print always messes up. last night I took a shot with cubex again instead of KS and the print actually came out half decent.

my printer jet nozzle seems to not clean properly and burns the print. I adjusted my zgap as per the screen on the cubex to 19.17 and it worked. some minor tweaking and I might be ok. I cannot get kisslicer to give me a decent print. I will upload photos of the print from.cubex.

tmp_20131221_073804-314189507.jpg (627.63 kB, 2048x1152 - viewed 14 times.)

tmp_20131221_073815-859157558.jpg (652.99 kB, 2048x1152 - viewed 8 times.)

tmp_20131221_0738211046083804.jpg (684.99 kB, 2048x1152 - viewed 6 times.)

Bkjnky

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bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #465 on: December 21, 2013, 06:39:49 AM »
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Krazy,

Keep at it, it took me quite a long time to get my calibrations (mechanical and in KISSlicer) just right. The Z gap and the temp of your print will play a big role in getting good adhesion and propper dimension, but are not likely the cause a the entire issue. You really should do the thin wall and solid calibrations before you try to print. Every material is different and will require you to become adept at making adjustments to get the best results.

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cglusky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #466 on: December 21, 2013, 06:45:54 AM »
Quote
@cdlrenee - thanks for the file!

@evanevery. My pleasure and least I could do. I am on the verge of shipping this thing back and disputing the charge. Agreed about tracking down the nonstandard g and m code use for P/S. Especially since I keep forgetting that the P/S does nothing in the KS interface with the current CubeIt overwrite. Don't we need a good test file? Something like a series of 2" long lines at extrusion width to see P/S impacts on a print more clearly?

@krazykarl - Two different things that can be confusing as they do the similar things. Z Gap is the setting on your printer so your hardware knows exactly where the bed is in Z; Z Offset is a setting in Kissslicer that gets applied to your GCode and can be used to tweak output in Z. They both impact the same thing - distance the print head prints from bed. I, like many others, use a piece of paper for a feeler gauge to set Z Gap. When setting the Z Gap bring the table UP (as others have said it works better working up) until you just get friction between table and paper. It is also very important to heat the print head up and wipe it clean - every time - before trying to set the gap. And oh yes, do this before every print. This thing seems to loose steps and/or not clear print offsets very well, so you have to make sure it's right before you print. And thanks to the help from others on his thread I am using a Z Offset in Kisslicer of .25mm for .25mm layer thickness. You will also have to calibrate your printer for the particular filament in use to get good results. Those details are also in this thread but I don't have my notes handy so can't tell you which page/post. And if you are not getting a good wipe you may need to tweak your wipe offset but that's OT.

R,
C

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krazykarl
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #467 on: December 21, 2013, 07:43:17 AM »
Quote
ok so to understand completely, regardless what you set your z offset to you ALWAYS want to attain a 0.1mm zgap between your bed and print head? use a piece of paper to gap it. then inside kisslicer play around with the zoffset until the print is proper? I believe its default zoffset in ks says 0.25. as I am using a 0.25 build. if I increase the zoffset to say 0.30 It should lower the gap by 0.05? this is where I get confused bc when I gap the bed that thin my abs gets smeared and pushed around as it prints. I made the gap between the bed and tip to almost the thickness of my filament and it printed very smooth. I just keep.getting burnt abs as it clogs on the tip and ruins the print

can someone give me an exact reading off thei4 cubex interface for their zgap number? also what you have your z offset to in ks using 1.75mm abs white? id like to compare
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Romanfix
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #468 on: December 21, 2013, 07:47:57 AM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 20, 2013, 06:54:33 AM

Quote from: Romanfix on December 19, 2013, 03:59:11 PM
Thanks for the update, It looks like others have been working on this since May 2013. I hope it will not be long... Tired of buying $99 crappy cartridges for this system. I guess I will hack the ds28e01 so at least I can save on the multi-prints.

...or, you could download V1.07 of the native CubeX slicer which leaves behind a plain text copy the the print file (BFB). Then simply edit the BFB file to remove everything in the header except the "^Firmware:V1.07" line...

You totally lost me there - How in the world will that help me with multi-color prints?

I currently have to use the cubex software in order to use the multi-color prints. In doing so, the software "removes" a specific amount of filament from each cartridge. When the cartridge is empty, I must replace with a new one or I can no longer use the cubex software (multi-color Prints).

So how does editing the BFB file help me? It does not as I cannot use KS for multi -color prints.

I am close on the DS28E01 C-code decrypt algorithms.
I am an EE not a software guy...

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #469 on: December 21, 2013, 08:18:44 AM »
Quote

So how does editing the BFB file help me? It does not as I cannot use KS for multi -color prints.

I am close on the DS28E01 C-code decrypt algorithms.
I am an EE not a software guy...

[/quote]

Read post 273

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bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #470 on: December 21, 2013, 08:19:40 AM »
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I think what he is suggesting is that you output the Bfb file from cubeX software, remove the header, save the Bfb file to your memory stick and print. The cubeX prints Bfb files as well as cubeX files.

Keep everyone up to date on hacking the EEPROM. That's some hard work that many would pay for if it works.

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cglusky
Newbie

Posts: 5

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #471 on: December 21, 2013, 09:46:28 AM »
Quote
Quote from: krazykarl on December 21, 2013, 07:43:17 AM
ok so to understand completely, regardless what you set your z offset to you ALWAYS want to attain a 0.1mm zgap between your bed and print head? use a piece of paper to gap it. then inside kisslicer play around with the zoffset until the print is proper? I believe its default zoffset in ks says 0.25. as I am using a 0.25 build. if I increase the zoffset to say 0.30 It should lower the gap by 0.05? this is where I get confused bc when I gap the bed that thin my abs gets smeared and pushed around as it prints. I made the gap between the bed and tip to almost the thickness of my filament and it printed very smooth. I just keep.getting burnt abs as it clogs on the tip and ruins the print

can someone give me an exact reading off thei4 cubex interface for their zgap number? also what you have your z offset to in ks using 1.75mm abs white? id like to compare

You want a consistent way to measure the gap and paper is easy. If you used something else of known thickness you could tweak all your settings for that gap. I run about -40.00mm on my Z Gap but that is pretty useless for you as each machine will be different. That is why you have to Z Gap.

As your z offset in KS gets bigger the gap should get bigger as I understand it. If it's like the rest of my CNC machines anyway, but who knows with this thing.

If you z gap with paper and set the z offset to .25 you should be close. I just ran a test with black ABS and it worked fine.

Are you using CubeX filament? If you are using 1.75mm after market you would need to change the filament diameter setting in KS and calibrate. And it has been said that some 1.75mm after market will not feed well as some of it is too large for the extruder.

R,
C

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krazykarl
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #472 on: December 21, 2013, 10:22:46 AM »
Quote
I am using aftermarket 1.75 white abs. I set the diameter to 1.75 mm filament but I didnt touch any other settings in KS. im not too familiar with KS yet so I dont feel comfortable playig around with values that I do not understand. I am using the values assigned by the cubeit file. I notice a big difference between the thickness of cubex and aftermarket. perhaps I will try going back to cubex abs and try again. im just tired of buying 100$ spools of filament...

thanks for your help. im going to retry my z gap with paper and play with thr z offset...

last question.......I promise! lol...(prob not lol) what do you guys use foe your print bed. the glue cube supplied is garbage and damn near impossible to clean the bed so I get a smooth first layer. ive read of guys using green painters tape and scuffing it lightly with sand paper.....

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bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #473 on: December 21, 2013, 12:03:36 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: krazykarl on December 21, 2013, 10:22:46 AM
I am using aftermarket 1.75 white abs. I set the diameter to 1.75 mm filament but I didnt touch any other settings in KS. im not too familiar with KS yet so I dont feel comfortable playig around with values that I do not understand. I am using the values assigned by the cubeit file. I notice a big difference between the thickness of cubex and aftermarket. perhaps I will try going back to cubex abs and try again. im just tired of buying 100$ spools of filament...

thanks for your help. im going to retry my z gap with paper and play with thr z offset...

last question.......I promise! lol...(prob not lol) what do you guys use foe your print bed. the glue cube supplied is garbage and damn near impossible to clean the bed so I get a smooth first layer. ive read of guys using green painters tape and scuffing it lightly with sand paper.....

It's critical that you measure several points along your filament to get an average and then input it into the settings or you could end up sending to much filament into the hot end causing skipping. As for the bed, I removed the white plastic from the glass an covered the glass with kapton tape. I then put on a thin layer of the glue and let it dry completely befor setting z gap and printing. If you have a hairdryer, it doesn't hurt to preheat your glass, and enclose your cube.

http://youtu.be/bT3blsZ_b6k this link is a short video that I made showing my mods. The preheat really helps with adhesion. I've tried the painters tape but haven't had much luck with it. I hear it works really sell with heated beds though.

Also, after you print, don't wash off your glue. Just wipe your print bed with a slightly more than damp sponge. It will re-activate the glue and smooth out the surface. I get 10 to 15 prints on the same glue this way with small parts, or up to 7 prints with larger parts.

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Romanfix
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Posts: 6

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #474 on: December 21, 2013, 08:06:06 PM »
Quote
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on December 21, 2013, 08:18:44 AM

So how does editing the BFB file help me? It does not as I cannot use KS for multi -color prints.

I am close on the DS28E01 C-code decrypt algorithms.
I am an EE not a software guy...

Read post 273
[/quote]

I did - I have read ALL of the posts on this board. Some I understand - others I do not...

I am asking that someone please assist...

When I use v1.07 and print I can create a .bfb file as a bonus. I get that but...
1- I cannot print a .bfb using the native cubex software. Right? If this is not true can you please explain
2- I cannot edit the .cubex file. Right? If this is not true can you please explain
3- So I still have to print the multi-color file within Cubex because KS does not do multi-color prints correct? If this is not true can you please explain.

So if I cannot edit a .cubex and I cannot multiprint a .bfb on KS What am I missing?
Please assist

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #475 on: December 21, 2013, 09:48:44 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Romanfix on December 21, 2013, 08:06:06 PM
1- I cannot print a .bfb using the native cubex software. Right? If this is not true can you please explain

Wrong! You can print a .bfb file from the native Cubex software version 1.07.

Load your part into the cubex software. Process the way you normally would.
In your working directory, next to your .cubex file that you just created is a .bfb file.

You can load and run that file as is on your machine.
You can also edit that file with notepad.

At the top of the .bfb file is a set of declaration statements that looks like this.
^Firmware:V1.07
^Checksum: YES
^DRM:00000000
^Time:14
^MaterialLength: 0
^MaterialCodeE1: 200
^LayerTime: 0.250 4.500 0.000

You can delete all of the lines except ^Firmware:V1.07

The top of the file should now look something like this.
^Firmware:V1.07
#Start component: 3
M104 S250 P1
M542

Save the file and copy to a flash drive.

Pull all of your cartridges out about an inch.
On the Cubex front panel, select Cartridge info.
All slots should indicate cartridge not found.
Load and run your program.
Post thank you note to Bob!
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bort72

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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #476 on: December 22, 2013, 04:11:10 AM »
Quote
HI, Thanks for all the great info. I need some help please.... I have 2 problems
1. I'm having trouble with the cubit.exe program. I have put CUBEIT.EXE <"file"> in the post process line (I have the exe in the root directory of the app) and cubex firmware 1.07 is saying that i don't have enough plastic to start (meaning I can't use aftermarket filament). I then ran the cubit exe and selected the file and material to process but got the same result when i got to the printer. What am I doing wrong?
2. The cubex prints the base 3or 4 layers very nicely but when it starts to print the infill the zgap seems to increase and I keep ending up with bundle of loose string on top of a nice base. Is this a common problem? What setting would I try to adjust to fix this?
I am ready to explode, so would really appreciate your help
Thanks

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bkjnky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #477 on: December 22, 2013, 05:06:27 AM »
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Can you post picture and the output file ok please

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cglusky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #478 on: December 22, 2013, 09:31:00 AM »
Quote
How I enclosed my Duo...

I had started with Velcro in the corners of the plexi and did not like lack of seal. After I saw the magnet trick I decided to try this. Not rare earth magnets but magnetic strip. It was a bit cheaper at Hobby Lobby. Took about 15 bucks of magnetic strip to do both panels and enclosure. I used thin plexi from Home Depot which was perhaps 30 bucks. Hurt to spend 50 bucks to close this thing in like it should have been from the factory - Just add that to the list I guess.

Also have an enclosure heater and thermostat coming to see if I can heat the box up to 80-90F for ABS work. Want to try that before I spend a bunch of money on a heated bed.

EDIT: I had to use super glue to help the magnetic strip adhesive.

CubeX Enclosure.JPG (320.46 kB, 1280x960 - viewed 15 times.)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 09:35:35 AM by cglusky »
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PenskeGuy
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Posts: 1264
Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #479 on: December 22, 2013, 02:47:23 PM »
Quote
I enclosed my 3D Touch a long time ago with foamcore panels and a large plastic bag that loosely covers the top and can be pulled down around to the base if necessary. Additional cavity heat is provided by an R20 reflector spot that is aimed toward the PLA reel to keep it dry. That alone is sufficient to keep the cavity at 86F and the PLA in the center of the beam at 107F.

The panels do not close completely. This is important. The most important thing is to prevent stray drafts from entering the cavity. Elevated temp is secondary. Be careful if you try to elevate the cavity temp too high. there needs to be some amount of cooling around the extruders. It will end up being a delicate balance between cavity/bed temperature and part cooling. With a significantly elevated cavity temp, part cooling will suffer.

Bkjnky

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cglusky
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #480 on: December 22, 2013, 04:33:27 PM »
Quote
Thanks penskeguy. Wow, 86C. And I was thinking 86F was a bit high. I have some gaffers tape laying around I thought I would use to experiment with sealing top/bottom. Think I will try the sides and front and leave the back open at top and bottom to help airflow and see what happens.

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PenskeGuy
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Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #481 on: December 22, 2013, 10:48:18 PM »
Quote
Sorry, that was before my coffee. I had the laser thermometer set to F. I've corrected the post.

I would not totally close the bottom and top slot vents; especially if the sides are totally closed off. Even with the plastic bag over the top, there is still air flow. The temps I have are with 1" gaps at the front of both side panels that sit on the counter, extend past the openings toward the front and taper closer toward the back. The sides are far from being air-tight. The front opening has a single panel that is cut around the clip lamp. It just leans against the case, so I can easily remove it.

The foamcore just provides a barrier. It doesn't seal anything off. Again, it's most important to get the cavity to maintain a steady state, while still allowing convection, more than it is to elevate the temp by a lot. A draft from walking by the printer can mess up a print, because the environment has changed from what it was when your tests and previous prints were made; and settings for same adjusted.

Sealing the cavity off would help the warping issue but would also require cold air supply to both the extruder cooling fans and the part cooling fans.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 11:20:58 PM by PenskeGuy »

bort72
Newbie

Posts: 5

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #482 on: December 23, 2013, 05:11:17 AM »
Quote
Hi, I'm having a problem where the z-height seems to get higher after it finishes the base. When it starts to print the fill layers, it prints them slightly in the air, with terrible results. I would really appreciate any help as I have been getting the same problem with all my files.
Thanks and Happy Christmas!
The build file is here
bit.ly/1fAHULC
My settings are here
http://bit.ly/1jA0tFp

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bsmith19dot98
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #483 on: December 23, 2013, 06:07:14 AM »
Quote
I skimmed through the first 8mm of your output file. I did not see any jumps in the Z coordinates. I looked at your .ini files, nothing really jumped out.

Are there overhangs on your part?

Have you run the thin wall calibration?

It is hard to tell if the problem is with your settings or the model.

I basically have two suggestions. The first is to take a step back to a simpler part. Maybe a 30x30x6 cube. Make sure that works with all of your settings. If you still have trouble with the cube then we can work on settings.

The other suggestion is can you post your model? Maybe that is where the problem is.

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #484 on: December 23, 2013, 02:08:14 PM »
Quote
Yeah, from the looks of the third image, it would appear that flow rate isn't correct. Thin Wall and Solid Cube calibration should cure it unless, as you say, the model has issues.

bort72
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Posts: 5

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #485 on: December 24, 2013, 01:41:36 PM »
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Thanks for your replies Both good points, I an still getting issues with the cube. For some reason it starts every print with a blob in the corner, and I'm still getting problems see pic. Thanks for your ideas.

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bort72
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #486 on: December 24, 2013, 02:17:14 PM »
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Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 23, 2013, 02:08:14 PM
Yeah, from the looks of the third image, it would appear that flow rate isn't correct. Thin Wall and Solid Cube calibration should cure it unless, as you say, the model has issues.
Sorry for the beginners question, but are there setting that I should start with for the thin wall and solid cube calibration, is there a procedure? Thanks
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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #487 on: December 24, 2013, 02:41:34 PM »
Quote
Yes, there is a procedure. Search is your friend but, being Christmas, I'll provide a couple of gifts.

For the "blob in the corner" read this thread.

Are the walls on that print supposed to be wavy or straight?
3d-printer-calibration.pdf (57.34 kB - downloaded 9 times.)
box-halfinch.stl (0.67 kB - downloaded 6 times.)
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 02:43:06 PM by PenskeGuy »

bort72
Newbie

Posts: 5

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #488 on: December 25, 2013, 02:41:15 AM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 24, 2013, 02:41:34 PM
Yes, there is a procedure. Search is your friend but, being Christmas, I'll provide a couple of gifts.

For the "blob in the corner" read this thread.

Are the walls on that print supposed to be wavy or straight?
That was my the better of my cube test results. Would you have any idea why the walls are coming out wavy? Thanks for the info I won't be able to run the tests for about a week, but I will post the results.
Have a great Christmas
THANKS

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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #489 on: December 25, 2013, 04:08:00 AM »
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Well, it's worst at the bottom and damps out as it goes up, so I'd say it's a hardware issue. Without seeing the model used to slice this part, it's hard to tell. Do waves show in the paths view?

Bkjnky

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Dec 27, 2013, 1:35:11 AM12/27/13

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bsmith19dot98
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Posts: 54

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #490 on: December 25, 2013, 03:00:53 PM »
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The easiest way to get rid of the puddle is to print a skirt with the model. Click the Support tab, Clicl the drop down menu under Raft, select Skirt. This will keep the puddle outside of the part.

Do you have the same problem with the wavy sides with Cubex slicer?

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bkjnky
Newbie

Posts: 38

Re: CUBEX

« Reply #500 on: December 25, 2013, 09:27:05 PM »
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Hi All,

I think I have a new clue to the M227 and M228 Mystery.

with further testing, I think the firmware has a short travel and long travel Suck/Prime parameter and M228 appears to be the short distance prime/suck parameter.

When setting
M227 P2000 S150
M228 P0 S150

resulted in a long suck/prime cycle before the travel started from the wiper to the point of print near the middle of the print bed, and with each loop starting next to where the previous had just ended, a short Suck/Prime cycle. When the print traveled again to start a new loop quite far from the end of the prior loop, I got another long Suck/Prime cycle.

When setting
M227 P2000 S150
M228 P0 S2000

Resulted in long Suck/Prime cycle every time a new loop was started after a travel.

Basically I think that any time the firmware encounters M103 it calculates the travel distance, and applies either M227 PX or M228 SX at the speed setting specified by M227 Sx.

My guess is that the long travel distance trigger is somewhere between 75mm and 100mm

Can anyone do some testing on this theory?

heres my cubit INI setting incase you wanted to see the block

; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for FIRST layers of PLA (Required Section)
[PSPBlock PLA First]
Line1=M227 P2000 S150
Line2=M55x P1500 S80.000
Line3=M228 P0 S2000

; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for Remaining layers of PLA (Required Section)
[PSPBlock PLA Rest]
Line1=M227 P2000 S150
Line2=M228 P0 S2000
Line3=M55x P1500 S60.000

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Bkjnky

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Dec 27, 2013, 1:38:48 AM12/27/13

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Pedro Feliciano

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Jan 14, 2014, 8:29:24 AM1/14/14

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I tried testing with these coordinates it gives out a failure at line 7

Bkjnky

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Jan 19, 2014, 2:02:05 AM1/19/14

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Please post code...

Laurence Pearl

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Feb 4, 2014, 3:59:14 AM2/4/14

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Having been really impressed by KISSlicer rescuing my CubeX Trio from a trip to eBay, I have purchased the PRO Key, which now lets me specify different extruders for supports and model etc.

What I can't work out is how to get KISSlicer PRO to assign different parts of a multi-.stl build to different extruders so I can generate a multi-color model - the native and otherwise totally inadequate Cubify software doeas this so I can't believe that KISSlicer doesn't.

Help anyone ?

Steven

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Feb 4, 2014, 8:29:17 AM2/4/14

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Kisslicer does not currently support multi-color models. That is planned for a future release.

In the mean time check out this post. See if it can do what you are looking for.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/kisslicer-refugee-camp/OJ-TacknXCM

Rodney Wells

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Feb 7, 2014, 9:00:28 AM2/7/14

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Hello PenskeyGuy

I have just found my way to the refuge camp.

over the last few weeks I purchased a Cube X.

Still getting it out of the box but it looks like a nice printer. I know i am going to need help. I have already had help form 'Rick Bienias' his blog is awesome.

great to find the forum.

Cheers

Toranarod

On Friday, 27 December 2013 16:41:55 UTC+11, Bkjnky wrote:

PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX

« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2013, 12:08:26 PM »
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I'm not really sure that any other slicer will work with those. 3D Systems is increasingly closed and proprietary. Before they discontinued the 3D Touch and Rapman printers without notice, and then made the 3D Touch into their CubeX with its expensive proprietary filament canisters, they introduced a new version of their slicer that outputs encrypted print files, so you can't make any alterations or see what they are doing with their print profiles.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 01:39:27 PM by PenskeGuy »