evanevery
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Posts: 100
Re: CUBEX
« Reply #435 on: December 18, 2013, 06:30:40 AM »
Quote
bjknjy,
Thats a lot of really great info! However, it looks like you are only adjusting the parameters in ONE of the PSP blocks. For either material you use (ABS/PLA), there are TWO PSP blocks in CUBEIT.INI which will be applied! One block ("PSPBLOCK ABS/PLA FIRST") gets inserted for the config of the nozzle in the first layer, the other block ("PSPBLOCK ABS/PLA REST") is inserted just before the rest of the print starts. Both KISSLICER and the native CUBEX slicer do a nozzle setup once before the initial layer, and then once more just after the first layer (for the rest of the print). KISSLICER and CUBEX do this somewhat differently which is why CUBEIT simply does a wholesale insert of the "CUBEX" proprietary style in place of the "KISSLICER generic style.
It looks like you are only adjusting the parameters in the "FIRST" PSP block and not the "REST" PSP block in the CUBEIT.INI file. I say this because you only list the contents of a single PSP block for each of your tests and also because the M55x command is always BEFORE the M227/M228 commands in your blocks. CUBEX always puts the M55x AFTER the M227/M228 commands for the second nozzle config that occurs after the first layer. (This is how the default PSP blocks in CUBEIT are also implemented).
If you are only making changes to the "FIRST" PSP block in CUBEIT (or in your print file manually), then you will likely never see any changes in anything but the first layer. This is all OK as long as you realize that... The default values for the "PSP" Blocks in the CUBEIT.INI file are simply the same as what is being done by the native CUBEX slicer. Note that the "first" layer blocks differ from the "rest" layer blocks not only in the parameter values which are being applied, but also in the order in which the commands are generated.
I'll sit down with your info as soon as I have some time to analyze your findings. Thanks for all the great info. Hopefully a pattern will emerge...
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evanevery
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Posts: 100
Re: CUBEX
« Reply #436 on: December 18, 2013, 06:51:23 AM »
Quote
bjknjy,
I took the liberty of cleaning up your parameter listings. This might make it easier to look at an process. The M104, M542, and M543 commands in your listings are always the same (and irrelevant in any case) so there is no point in looking at them (they are just noise wrt observations). I may also put them in a spreadsheet so all the parameters can be columnized and changes easily tracked. I have not removed any of your "Layer 2" comments, but as I've commented in my earlier message - any layer 2 (and subsequent) observations will be completely irrelevant if you are not making any adjustments to the second time the nozzle is set/purged in your print file...
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P0 S0
M228 P0 S0
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* NO SUCK OR PRIME MOTION ON FIRST LAYER
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW ON FIRST LAYER, ALMOST NONE FOR INITIAL 50MM
* NO SUCK OR PRIME ON SECOND OR SUBSQUENT LAYERS
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW FLOW FOR FIRST 50MM AFTER LAYER START
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P0 S0
DELETED M228 P0 S0
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* NO SUCK OR PRIME MOTION ON FIRST LAYER
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW ON FIRST LAYER, ALMOST NONE FOR INITIAL 50MM
* NO SUCK OR PRIME ON SECOND OR SUBSEQUENT LAYERS
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW FLOW FOR FIRST 50MM AFTER LAYER START
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P800 S0
M228 P0 S0
* NO SUCK ON TRAVEL TO FIRST PRINT POINT.
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* BIG PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* NO SUCK AND NO PRIME MOTION AFTER INITIAL LAYER
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P0 S0
* NO SUCK ON TRAVEL TO FIRST PRINT POINT.
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* VERY SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S1
M228 P0 S0
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR VERY LONG TIME, POSSIBLY 10+ SECONDS, EXTRUDER WAS TURNING CLOCKWISE AT ALMOST UNRECOGNIZABLEY SLOW SPEED.
* EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S10
M228 P0 S0
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR APPROXIMATELY 6 SECONDS, EXTRUDER WAS TURNING CLOCKWISE AT SLIGHTLY FASTER SPEED THAN PREVIOUS TEST SPEED.
* EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S150
M228 P0 S0
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR APPROXIMATELY .5 SECONDS, EXTRUDER TURNED CLOCKWISE TO QUICKLY TO DISTINGUISH SEPARATION FROM START OF PRINT.
* EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P0 S0
M228 P800 S0
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* NO SUCK OR PRIME MOTION ON FIRST LAYER
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW ON FIRST LAYER, ALMOST NONE FOR INITIAL 50MM
* NO SUCK OR PRIME ON SECOND OR SUBSEQUENT LAYERS
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW FLOW FOR FIRST 50MM AFTER LAYER START
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P0 S0
M228 P0 S800
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* NO SUCK OR PRIME MOTION ON FIRST LAYER
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW ON FIRST LAYER, ALMOST NONE FOR INITIAL 50MM
* NO SUCK OR PRIME ON SECOND OR SUBSEQUENT LAYERS
* VERY LOW FILAMENT FLOW FLOW FOR FIRST 50MM AFTER LAYER START
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P1 S0
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P150 S0
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P0 S1
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P0 S150
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P0 S800
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S0
M228 P150 S1
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S150
M228 P0 S150
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S150
M228 P0 S800
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S300
M228 P0 S800
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S300
M228 S800 P0
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2
M551 P1000 S80.000
M227 P150 S300
M228 S1 P0
* NO SUCK MOTION DURING TRAVEL TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* OOZE AT NOZZLE TIP TRAVELING TO INITIAL PRINT POINT
* SMALL PUDDLE AT INITIAL PRINT POINT
* EQUAL SMALL SUCK AND PRIME MOTION STARTING AT LAYER 2
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evanevery
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Posts: 100
Re: CUBEX
« Reply #437 on: December 18, 2013, 07:36:47 AM »
Quote
Based on your observations, I'm wondering if CubeX is using the M227 to define the "Prime" parameter and the M228 to define the "Suck"...
Specifically, I'm looking at the following three excerpts from your listing (I've also removed your M541 commands as they are the same throughout your tests and SHOULD only effect the inititial purge to the waste bin anyway):
M227 P150 S1
M228 P0 S0
* UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR VERY LONG TIME, POSSIBLY 10+ SECONDS, EXTRUDER WAS TURNING CLOCKWISE AT ALMOST UNRECOGNIZABLEY SLOW SPEED.
* EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE
M227 P150 S10
M228 P0 S0
* UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR APPROXIMATELY 6 SECONDS, EXTRUDER WAS TURNING CLOCKWISE AT SLIGHTLY FASTER SPEED THAN PREVIOUS TEST SPEED.
* EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE
M227 P150 S150
M228 P0 S0
* UPON REACHING INITIAL PRINT POINT, PRINT HEAD PAUSED FOR APPROXIMATELY .5 SECONDS, EXTRUDER TURNED CLOCKWISE TO QUICKLY TO DISTINGUISH SEPARATION FROM START OF PRINT.
* EACH SUBSEQUENT LAYER START HAD SAME PAUSE
Based on the above, it looks like the CUBEX M227 command might only be used to set the PRIME setting. Note that as the "S" parameter changes so does the delay/pause in your printing. If this is true, then the "S" parameter on the M227 command, might be acting very much like the "S" parameter on the generic M541 command. The "S" parameter on the generic M541 command (PURGE), is used to set the extruder RPM speed. The lower the "S" value, the slower the extruder rotates. The "P" parameter on the generic M541 (Purge) command, tells the extruder how much material to eject... So, it appears, when your M227 "S" value is very small, the extruder rotates very slowly and therefore takes a longer time to eject the same amount of material ("P150") compared to when the "S" value is larger... This does appear to be a possibility as it would be somewhat the same type specification as the M541 command...
Generically, the M227 command is used to set both Prime and Suck settings. However, if Cubex "hijacked" the M227 command to provide additional functionality to the "Prime" setting (extruder speed), then there would need to be some other way to set the "Suck" setting. Its conceivable that they decide to use the M228 parameter to do this. If this is true, I might suggest we run some tests to see if the following command construct applies to the CubeX:
M227 P{prime} S{rpm}
M228 P{suck} S{rpm}
This might also explain why CUBEX always uses the M227 and M228 commands as a pair...
We should also note that the native CUBEX slicer appears to always specify a "P0" in its construct (See the default values in CUBEIT.INI). This might mean that only the M228 "S" parameter is significant (amount of material to extrude), or perhaps a setting of "P0" might also mean, Suck the equal amount as the preceding M227 command set for its Prime...
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evanevery
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Posts: 100
Re: CUBEX
« Reply #438 on: December 18, 2013, 07:51:12 AM »
Quote
Based on what I'm seeing in the native CUBEX slicer prints (see contents of CUBEIT.INI), I'm going to guess that the M227/M228 pairs are being used as follows:
M227 P{prime} S{rpm}
M228 P0 S{suck}
Where the "P0" on the M228 command is irrelevant. The reason I say this is that the "S" parameter used on the M228 line is often EXACTLY equal to the "P" parameter on the M227 line (Native CubeX Slicer Code). You can see this info in the CUBEIT.INI file... We might expect this when Suck and Prime are normally set to equal values...
I can easily rework CUBEIT to take the generic KISSLICER M227 command and split it up into a corresponding CubeX M227/M227 command pair if we can prove this is the case. That would let us move the Prime/Suck settings back into KISSLICER (and out of the CUBEIT.INI file).
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AeroJack
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Posts: 6
Re: CUBEX
« Reply #439 on: December 18, 2013, 12:46:23 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 18, 2013, 07:51:12 AM
M227 P{prime} S{rpm}
If the S parameter is RPM, it uses an unusual scaling.
I say this because above we have
M227 P150 S1 causing a pause for 10+ seconds,
but
M227 P150 S10 causes a pause for 6 seconds.
If the S parameter was RPM, then the first pause should have been 10 times larger than the second since each command is for 150 steps.
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bkjnky
Newbie
Posts: 38
Re: CUBEX
« Reply #440 on: December 18, 2013, 12:51:41 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Couple of notes regarding my testing results:
I removed the second block as I thought it would be important to test not only the M commands of the block but also the order as they are different for the first vs. subsequent layers.
It appears to me that I did not see any suck with the M227/228 lines after the M551. If someone can test for suck happening with the second block Oder that might be helpful.
If you look at the .bfb file I attached you can see that I left the first block in cubeX native order but deleted the second block after the temp change line. The temp change still returns the head to the wiper, no M542/543 needed. A whole other set of questions... Good luck and thanks for all the hard work. I'm out for the next 5 days so I can't run any more tests for a while but let me know if you have any questions about this set of tests!
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evanevery
Full Member
Posts: 100
Re: CUBEX
« Reply #441 on: December 18, 2013, 01:03:07 PM »
Quote
Quote from: AeroJack on December 18, 2013, 12:46:23 PM
If the S parameter is RPM, it uses an unusual scaling.
Yes, but if we run some control tests and change only the M227 "S" parameter, I bet we can figure it out...
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PenskeGuy
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Posts: 1264
Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day
Re: CUBEX
« Reply #442 on: December 18, 2013, 02:46:29 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 18, 2013, 07:51:12 AM
M227 P{prime} S{rpm}
M228 P0 S{suck}
OK. One more time. Have you tried P1 on M228? We've seen P1 being used in a non-standard way in another command and they just might do it elsewhere.
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evanevery
Full Member
Posts: 100
Re: CUBEX
« Reply #443 on: December 18, 2013, 02:56:17 PM »
Quote
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 18, 2013, 02:46:29 PM
OK. One more time. Have you tried P1 on M228? We've seen P1 being used in a non-standard way in another command and they just might do it elsewhere.
On all the tests I've ever done with the Native CubeX slicer, the M228 has always used a P0 in that position. Never anything else...
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PenskeGuy
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Re: CUBEX
« Reply #444 on: December 18, 2013, 03:04:09 PM »
Quote
I know. Not the point. :\
Edit a "1" in there everywhere there is an M228 P0 and see if it does anything different.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 03:07:35 PM by PenskeGuy »
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bkjnky
Newbie
Posts: 38
Re: CUBEX
« Reply #445 on: December 18, 2013, 04:13:57 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 18, 2013, 03:04:09 PM
I know. Not the point. :\
Edit a "1" in there everywhere there is an M228 P0 and see if it does anything different.
That was the one test I meant to run, and did, but with an S0 and no other values, dang it!!!
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Romanfix
Newbie
Posts: 6
Re: CUBEX
« Reply #446 on: December 18, 2013, 06:27:08 PM »
Quote
Quote from: evanevery on December 17, 2013, 09:09:11 AM
Quote from: Romanfix on December 17, 2013, 08:14:18 AM
I have a question about using kisslicer and cubeit. My prints are ok - still working on them, but my question is how in the world do I print with 2 colors?
CubeIt will work with whatever extruders are being used in your KISSLICER prints. You need to get KISSLICER working with multiple extruders and CubeIt will work with them just fine. So your question should be "How do I get KISSLICER working with multiple color filaments?"
Personally, I have not had a need to do that, but there is the extruder mapping page in KISSLICER which will let you use different extruders for different entities (supports, etc).
Thanks for clarifying how to ask a question, evanevery. I only wanted to say that I am using both programs, that seem to compliment each other for use with my Cubex Duo. It is very necessary to use 2 and 3 colors at the same time when printing houses for architect's and for completing many prints I do in the medical industry on a regular basis.
So my question is as follows....How do I get KISSLICER working with multiple color filaments with different extruders all within the same print run?
Is this possible or have I wasted my $42.00?
Thanks for any and all help...
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PenskeGuy
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Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day
Re: CUBEX
« Reply #447 on: December 18, 2013, 09:07:17 PM »
Quote
We really need a Sticky Post for this question.
KISSlicer multiple color is coming in a future release. It is part of the already implemented sub-mesh feature.
No, you haven't "wasted your $42". IMO, you have a far better slicer than whatever else you were using and $42 is chump change, compared to some of the other software licenses I have, at least.
Further, did you read somewhere that KS is multi-color before buying the license?
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Romanfix
Newbie
Posts: 6
Re: CUBEX
« Reply #448 on: December 19, 2013, 03:59:11 PM »
Quote
I saw and purchased based on this ...
Multi-Head Printing
You can pick a different extruder for: Raft / Support Base / Support-Model Interface / Model
The 'Wipe Pillar' allows multiple heads to be used without the stringing problem after the head warms up.
Smart Temperature control gives priority to already-warm extruders on any given layer.
I little deceiving none the less...
Thanks for the update, It looks like others have been working on this since May 2013. I hope it will not be long... Tired of buying $99 crappy cartridges for this system. I guess I will hack the ds28e01 so at least I can save on the multi-prints.
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bsmith19dot98
Jr. Member
Posts: 54
Re: CUBEX
« Reply #449 on: December 19, 2013, 06:35:42 PM »
Quote
Before you go to the trouble of hacking the chip, you might want to read post number 207 in this thread.