copy post "Any good solution for cracking problem on printed object with ABS?"
60 views
Skip to first unread message
funBart
Dec 14, 2013, 6:52:39 PM12/14/13
to kisslicer-r...@googlegroups.com
hirohiron
- Newbie
- Posts: 6
Hi there!
First of all, KISSlicer is the best software I have experienced ever.
Im using my 3d printer that is made by myself (milling frames, extruder, and etc) with Marlin firmware on Ramps V1.4. I have been using SFACT and Slic3r to generate Gcode but they couldn't reach at this level. (I love how KISSlicer approach the support material too.)
Currently I have a problem about printing ABS (using 1.78mm filament and 0.35mm nozzle) that is "cracking" in the middle of object. This happens often on a large sized object and gives critical weakness on the printed object.
Since I am using heated bed to prevent warping on the first layer, it works very well with raft on PET taped heated bed. However, the cracking happens on middle of object, for example, it starts cracking from about 40-50mm from the first layer.
I have been trying to use "fan on for loops" and "less extrusion thickness" but the object still get fragile after printing finished.
You can see how the cracking looks like on attached image. (super smooth surface but...)
It would be very appreciated if there is any good approach to this problem.
oh, I also attached nice print from KISSlicer (second picture). This is just awesome! I havent imagined my printer could print this quality!!
First of all, KISSlicer is the best software I have experienced ever.
Im using my 3d printer that is made by myself (milling frames, extruder, and etc) with Marlin firmware on Ramps V1.4. I have been using SFACT and Slic3r to generate Gcode but they couldn't reach at this level. (I love how KISSlicer approach the support material too.)
Currently I have a problem about printing ABS (using 1.78mm filament and 0.35mm nozzle) that is "cracking" in the middle of object. This happens often on a large sized object and gives critical weakness on the printed object.
Since I am using heated bed to prevent warping on the first layer, it works very well with raft on PET taped heated bed. However, the cracking happens on middle of object, for example, it starts cracking from about 40-50mm from the first layer.
I have been trying to use "fan on for loops" and "less extrusion thickness" but the object still get fragile after printing finished.
You can see how the cracking looks like on attached image. (super smooth surface but...)
It would be very appreciated if there is any good approach to this problem.
oh, I also attached nice print from KISSlicer (second picture). This is just awesome! I havent imagined my printer could print this quality!!
crack on abs.jpg (354.43 kB, 1068x1192 - viewed 98 times.)
nice print by kisslicer.jpg (218.69 kB, 1106x709 - viewed 77 times.)
hairygael
- Newbie
- Posts: 13
- BFB Touch Dual Head. Blender-Netfabb-KisslicerPro
Hi, Had that on big objects, I tried higher temperture on the extruder (253C for ABS from Orbitech, no fan), now it's okay. But that's just a suggestion, I'm sure you must have thought of it. I think it's called "delaminating". And it's true it keeps cracking even after print is finished. 
lonesock (Jonathan)
- KISSlicer Developer
- Administrator
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1042
- Alibre -> KISSlicer -> RapMan 3.1
Yep, as hairygael mentioned, keeping the whole thing warm is the goal.
Jonathan
- Heated chambers are patented (!?!), but not sure about just making one on your own, not to sell. (I use one [8^)
- You can also mount a heat lamp facing down to keep the part warm.
- You can pause the print every once in a while and "paint" the surface with acetone (if you use the wrong brush, all the bristles stick together)
- You can also do that "painting" once the part is finished, to repair any small cracks
- Some people will use an oven to heat the part once it is printed...I haven't done this myself, but I *think* you target a bit below the melting point of the plastic, and leave it in for a few hours to release internal stress
Jonathan
*A2TD : "Added to the ToDo list"
hirohiron
- Newbie
- Posts: 6
Thanks for reply!
hairygael
That's right, delaminating makes me headache for these days. Yes I gave a try with higher temp but the thermal polymer will shrink in any way. I havent tried to print with over 240 yet so will try too.
lonesock
'keeping the whole thing warm is the goal'. This is really what I need to think about. Yesterday I went to Stratasys (which has a lot of patents on this) website and looked uPrint, I realized that they've got big housing even for their smallest products. My printer does not have any box housing or heated chamber yet and this gives unstable temp to object. mmm, I should make for my own hehe. I will also try other methods you noted.
Thank you for replies and very helpful suggestions!!!
hairygael
That's right, delaminating makes me headache for these days. Yes I gave a try with higher temp but the thermal polymer will shrink in any way. I havent tried to print with over 240 yet so will try too.
lonesock
'keeping the whole thing warm is the goal'. This is really what I need to think about. Yesterday I went to Stratasys (which has a lot of patents on this) website and looked uPrint, I realized that they've got big housing even for their smallest products. My printer does not have any box housing or heated chamber yet and this gives unstable temp to object. mmm, I should make for my own hehe. I will also try other methods you noted.
Thank you for replies and very helpful suggestions!!!
DeepOrange
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 79
- 3d Touch - Dual head
Heated chambers are patented (!?!), but not sure about just making one on your own, not to sell. (I use one [8^)[/li][/list]
LOL. I do a lot of work with patents. Im sure that any patents related to heated chambers are very specific and would most likely apply to a particular method of heating or certain components used to create, control or circulate heat. My office (also a chamber of sorts) is heated. No one has a patent on that!
Regardless, you can build and use a patented product legally. If you try to sell it however, you might have some one chasing you for compensation.
hirohiron
- Newbie
- Posts: 6
DeepOrange
Right, everyone can build not only heated chamber but also other patented stuff by themselves unless they sell it. I might build a instant casing that holds temp inside for a kick start. Then I will think about more completed one.
The thing I want to add on ramps is now heat control with sensor for heated chamber.... well, just imagining...
Right, everyone can build not only heated chamber but also other patented stuff by themselves unless they sell it. I might build a instant casing that holds temp inside for a kick start. Then I will think about more completed one.
The thing I want to add on ramps is now heat control with sensor for heated chamber.... well, just imagining...
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 07:21:50 AM by hirohiron »
hairygael
- Newbie
- Posts: 13
- BFB Touch Dual Head. Blender-Netfabb-KisslicerPro
I run a BFB 3d touch that has somekind of a housing, and the first test I did for creating a chamber, was to use plastic protective cover (used for to protect during painting) to close all the openings. It really did great. Any flow of air, like walking next to the printer seems enough to cause heat warp and delamination. You can create a very sheap heat chamber like a tent with that stuff. Be carefull with fire though. It sure doesn't look great in the living room but hey...
hirohiron
- Newbie
- Posts: 6
That sounds great! Unfortunately the structure of my printer is same as Reprap Mendel, and it is bit hard to close the print area but give a try to set a box covers entire of printer for test.
well cardboard boxing doesnt look great either but hey...
well cardboard boxing doesnt look great either but hey...
setar
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 53
I have exactly the printer exactly the same parameters, and I have the exact same problem.
I noticed that the missing steps (this is the cause) occurs only on the Y axis
I succeeded get rid of this effect is only raising the current to the stepper motor driver, the Y-axis
I noticed that the missing steps (this is the cause) occurs only on the Y axis
I succeeded get rid of this effect is only raising the current to the stepper motor driver, the Y-axis
Mengel Prusa metric linear / 1 Head (wade extruder 1.75).
je310
- Newbie
- Posts: 3
A sheet of bubble wrap over the machine keeps the model toasty, then print slightly slower as now the part beneath will solidify slower. This ended my de-lamination woes.
lonesock (Jonathan)
- KISSlicer Developer
- Administrator
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1042
- Alibre -> KISSlicer -> RapMan 3.1
Nice idea, cheap too!
Jonathan
Jonathan
*A2TD : "Added to the ToDo list"
hirohiron
- Newbie
- Posts: 6
Thank you for all helpful comments and I got very nice result at the end.
I tried aluminum sheet instead of bubble wrap cuz I just had it and got good result too.
Now my printer is fully upgraded to another structure which is more like uPrint, and then I could seal the side walls, bottom and top too. The temp in chamber is about 50-60C but I want to rise it to 70c in the future (hopefully).
I tried aluminum sheet instead of bubble wrap cuz I just had it and got good result too.
Now my printer is fully upgraded to another structure which is more like uPrint, and then I could seal the side walls, bottom and top too. The temp in chamber is about 50-60C but I want to rise it to 70c in the future (hopefully).
jason.miles
- Newbie
- Posts: 9
DeepOrange and hirohiron,
"Regardless, you can build and use a patented product legally"
"Right, everyone can build not only heated chamber but also other patented stuff by themselves unless they sell it."
This is not at all true. If you read the Manual of Patent Examining Procedure Title 35 U.S.C. 271 you will see:
"Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States, or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent."
This means that you can infringe on a patent without selling anything.
In fact if you read the Wikipedia article on Patent Infringement you will see:
"35 U.S.C. ? 271(b) covers situations where one actively induces the infringement of a patent by encouraging, aiding, or otherwise causing another person or entity to infringe a patent. A potential inducer must actually be aware of the patent and intend for their actions to result in a third party infringing that patent."
This means that if you know about a heated build chamber patent yet encourage others to infringe on said patent, you also could be held liable.
Cheers,
Jason
"Regardless, you can build and use a patented product legally"
"Right, everyone can build not only heated chamber but also other patented stuff by themselves unless they sell it."
This is not at all true. If you read the Manual of Patent Examining Procedure Title 35 U.S.C. 271 you will see:
"Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States, or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent."
This means that you can infringe on a patent without selling anything.
In fact if you read the Wikipedia article on Patent Infringement you will see:
"35 U.S.C. ? 271(b) covers situations where one actively induces the infringement of a patent by encouraging, aiding, or otherwise causing another person or entity to infringe a patent. A potential inducer must actually be aware of the patent and intend for their actions to result in a third party infringing that patent."
This means that if you know about a heated build chamber patent yet encourage others to infringe on said patent, you also could be held liable.
Cheers,
Jason
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 01:20:54 PM by jason.miles »
DeepOrange
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 79
- 3d Touch - Dual head
Jason.
That statement refers to some one knowingly reproducing a patented product.
For the record, I am not aware of any heated chamber patent and I do not encourage anyone to knowingly infringe on any patent anywhere!
However I do believe that if you do make something for your own personal use, without knowing that you are infringing, and do not try to exploit it for profit, there is no reason for anyone to challenge you legally.
And if they did, you would merely make a simple apology and not do it again.
That statement refers to some one knowingly reproducing a patented product.
For the record, I am not aware of any heated chamber patent and I do not encourage anyone to knowingly infringe on any patent anywhere!
However I do believe that if you do make something for your own personal use, without knowing that you are infringing, and do not try to exploit it for profit, there is no reason for anyone to challenge you legally.
And if they did, you would merely make a simple apology and not do it again.
jason.miles
- Newbie
- Posts: 9
Agreed on both points, ignorance is bliss! 
Another important thing to keep in mind is it is an infringement of a patent to use (or sell) a product made according to a patented process
or using a patented machine.
That means if parts are knowingly sold or imported that have been printed with a patent infringing machine or process, the seller in this case also could be held liable.
-Jason
Another important thing to keep in mind is it is an infringement of a patent to use (or sell) a product made according to a patented process
or using a patented machine.
That means if parts are knowingly sold or imported that have been printed with a patent infringing machine or process, the seller in this case also could be held liable.
-Jason
jfpion
- Newbie
- Posts: 41
I made this print
the first attempt with only 2 loops and I got the print sliced in 2 parts
I tried with 5 loops and I got it perfect
It could be an option if you don't want to build a heated chamber
an option for KISSlicer could be to add "rib" of loops inside the part to increase the structural strength and the glueing strength between successive layers
the first attempt with only 2 loops and I got the print sliced in 2 parts
I tried with 5 loops and I got it perfect
It could be an option if you don't want to build a heated chamber
an option for KISSlicer could be to add "rib" of loops inside the part to increase the structural strength and the glueing strength between successive layers
lonesock (Jonathan)
- KISSlicer Developer
- Administrator
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1042
- Alibre -> KISSlicer -> RapMan 3.1
Ooohh, very interesting idea...could you add that to the wish-list thread (sorry if you did already.)
thanks,
Jonathan
thanks,
Jonathan
*A2TD : "Added to the ToDo list"
jfpion
- Newbie
- Posts: 41
not for the moment but I will
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
This conversation is locked
You cannot reply and perform actions on locked conversations.
0 new messages