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funBart
Dec 14, 2013, 6:48:04 PM12/14/13
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Newbie
- Posts: 17
When you are printing large object it is important that they stick perfectly on the bed. Since I have been printing a lot of such parts in the last weeks, here some tips how to do it.
I tried a lot of settings, also on the fly, but I had the best results with KISSlicer (command line version) with one raft only. This gave also a nice surface and I could remove the border of the raft easily.
But why is the raft sticking better than a normal first layer?
In the drawing below I tried to show my thoughts:
A narrow printed first layer has normally paths of about 0.5mm; a raft path has a width of about 1.5mm this means that the sticking surface is bigger (about 85% of the possible coverage) when a raft is printed.
The second picture shows that the wrapping of the big part was not so bad and it sticked this way until the end of printing.
What are your experiences?
Let me know
J?rg
I tried a lot of settings, also on the fly, but I had the best results with KISSlicer (command line version) with one raft only. This gave also a nice surface and I could remove the border of the raft easily.
But why is the raft sticking better than a normal first layer?
In the drawing below I tried to show my thoughts:
A narrow printed first layer has normally paths of about 0.5mm; a raft path has a width of about 1.5mm this means that the sticking surface is bigger (about 85% of the possible coverage) when a raft is printed.
The second picture shows that the wrapping of the big part was not so bad and it sticked this way until the end of printing.
What are your experiences?
Let me know
J?rg
P1000417 (Medium).JPG (35.38 kB, 800x600 - viewed 94 times.)
FirstLayer.png (20.34 kB, 1545x1545 - viewed 67 times.)« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 02:50:28 AM by joerg.schnyder »
lucenado
- Newbie
- Posts: 13
can someone translate that into some sort of setting? i olnlu print large objects and I'm having problems with warping.
lonesock (Jonathan)
- KISSlicer Developer
- Administrator
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1042
- Alibre -> KISSlicer -> RapMan 3.1
I'm not sure what your current settings are, but here's what I would try:
Jonathan
- Grab the 1.0.7 pre-release from the News board (sorry, still just Windows) to increase the raft "inflation" (maybe 5-10mm)
- try both the grid raft and the pillar raft...one may work better for you
- Go to the advanced printer setup and try both adding 0.25 to the Bed Roughness, and maybe -0.25 to the Z offset
- Bump up the 1st layer temp by 5 degrees
Jonathan
*A2TD : "Added to the ToDo list"
lonesock (Jonathan)
- KISSlicer Developer
- Administrator
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1042
- Alibre -> KISSlicer -> RapMan 3.1
Oh, I forgot another trick: you can reduce the internal stress by having the sparse infill use a reduced extrusion width (under [Styles]). For example, if you have a 0.5mm nozzle, you might want to try sparse infill at 0.3mm. You may need to disable stacking (set to 1) for the reduced sparse infill to bond with the previous layer.
Good luck!
Jonathan
Good luck!
Jonathan
*A2TD : "Added to the ToDo list"
markku
- Full Member
- Posts: 112
- Who? Me?
Heated bed is great for large stuff, here's mine. Bed is 15mm MDF (going to replace it with aluminium, because MDF seems to warp little bit (+70 C degs). Table has 2x 200W heater matts (150mm x 150mm x 3mm each). Using kapton tape on MDF, tried also blue painters tape (don't stick well to MDF) and duct tape (can't handle the heat with ABS).
IMG12.14.45_10-03-2012.jpg (72.05 kB, 400x341 - viewed 55 times.)
IMG12.23.15_10-03-2012.jpg (88.64 kB, 400x596 - viewed 54 times.)br
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
113peter
- Newbie
- Posts: 17
- 3D Touch triple head, KISSlicer Pro
Hi Markku,
this looks really good.
Which type of heated mats did you use and where did you find them?
I have switched to an aluminum bed (blue painters tape sticks well) and am considering an upgrade to heating.
The 65W mats I have found are probably not powerful enough.
BR
Peter
this looks really good.
Which type of heated mats did you use and where did you find them?
I have switched to an aluminum bed (blue painters tape sticks well) and am considering an upgrade to heating.
The 65W mats I have found are probably not powerful enough.
BR
Peter
DeepOrange
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 79
- 3d Touch - Dual head
Looks great Markku.
I am definitely going to get an aluminium heated bed made. Im so over trying to print on the warped bed the 3D Touch comes with!
Can you post some info on the heat mats and where you got them?
Also what sort of controller are you using? AC, DC? High/ low voltage?
Are those concrete blocks you have under the table? I am guessing to stabilise it....
Cheers,
I am definitely going to get an aluminium heated bed made. Im so over trying to print on the warped bed the 3D Touch comes with!
Can you post some info on the heat mats and where you got them?
Also what sort of controller are you using? AC, DC? High/ low voltage?
Are those concrete blocks you have under the table? I am guessing to stabilise it....
Cheers,
markku
- Full Member
- Posts: 112
- Who? Me?
Hi Markku,
this looks really good.
Which type of heated mats did you use and where did you find them?
I have switched to an aluminum bed (blue painters tape sticks well) and am considering an upgrade to heating.
The 65W mats I have found are probably not powerful enough.
Hi, silicone heaters (etch foil) are propably from here: http://www.holroydcomponents.com/
Bloody expensive, but bloody good :-)
Yes, I think painters tape should work fine with aluminium, MDF is just worse.
How thick is your bed? I mean if I get something like 5 mm is there apossibility that the bed warps when heated? On the other hand something like 15mm is quite heavy for those small motors.
My heaters go up to +200C (200W), so 65W might just be enough to get something like 70C (which I'm using now)...I don't know that much about electricity.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 11:38:11 PM by markku »
br
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
markku
- Full Member
- Posts: 112
- Who? Me?
Looks great Markku.
I am definitely going to get an aluminium heated bed made. Im so over trying to print on the warped bed the 3D Touch comes with!
Can you post some info on the heat mats and where you got them?
Also what sort of controller are you using? AC, DC? High/ low voltage?
Are those concrete blocks you have under the table? I am guessing to stabilise it....
Hi, yes, default bed sucks big time.
http://www.holroydcomponents.com, I got them through Finnish company, so I'm not 100% sure, silicone heater/etch foil
Controller is AC 240V/max 15A, made by Finnish company, so I really don't know anything about it, since it's not "standard" and has no any info label or anything. It was made for those heaters.
Yard blocks are there because our house is made of logs and the small printer movements are travelling through the house quite easily, and I would like to sleep during the night :-)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 12:00:35 AM by markku »
br
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
113peter
- Newbie
- Posts: 17
- 3D Touch triple head, KISSlicer Pro
Hi Markku,
thanks for the link, another avenue to pursue... I am curious to find out how bad the price is ;-)
The 65W units I found are 230v type and cost about ?11.- a piece (2 would be needed for the area plus a switch/potentiometer), but their nominal max. is at 100?C.
My aluminum bed has a thickness of 5mm. This seemed to be a good compromise of rigidity (also under heat) and weight. It weighs 1670g vs 870g of the original bed. With heating elements it will still be well below 2000g.
I can say that it is very sturdy, can be handled without fear of bending it, and does not change any dimension when used without heat. Dimensional performance with heat is tbd.
BR
Peter
thanks for the link, another avenue to pursue... I am curious to find out how bad the price is ;-)
The 65W units I found are 230v type and cost about ?11.- a piece (2 would be needed for the area plus a switch/potentiometer), but their nominal max. is at 100?C.
My aluminum bed has a thickness of 5mm. This seemed to be a good compromise of rigidity (also under heat) and weight. It weighs 1670g vs 870g of the original bed. With heating elements it will still be well below 2000g.
I can say that it is very sturdy, can be handled without fear of bending it, and does not change any dimension when used without heat. Dimensional performance with heat is tbd.
BR
Peter
markku
- Full Member
- Posts: 112
- Who? Me?
Looks nice, here's my current design. I'll ask some offers and let's see if 5 mm works with heat.
10267 SLOWorks 3DTouch bed.pdf (39.18 kB - downloaded 31 times.)br
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
DeepOrange
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 79
- 3d Touch - Dual head
Cool thanks Markku, I was just about measure up and draw my bed for my local machinist. You saved me the work!
I have a couple of questions though.
1. The magnet hole you specified ( I presume it is for the magnet) drops 4mm. What would you do for a 3mm bed? What magnet do you suggest?
2. Why did you cut out a section at the back right of the bed by the waste bin?
I have a couple of questions though.
1. The magnet hole you specified ( I presume it is for the magnet) drops 4mm. What would you do for a 3mm bed? What magnet do you suggest?
2. Why did you cut out a section at the back right of the bed by the waste bin?
markku
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- Posts: 112
- Who? Me?
1. The magnet hole you specified ( I presume it is for the magnet) drops 4mm. What would you do for a 3mm bed? What magnet do you suggest?
I don't know, maybe just hole through, heater matt is soft so it's not a huge problem I guess. I have only 15x4 size magnets, NdFeB and SmCo. NdFeB normally takes about 80C, but I found one that handles 120C, right now I'm using SmCo and they seem to work just fine.
2. Why did you cut out a section at the back right of the bed by the waste bin?
That's for the brass brush that I will add to the waste bin like here:
http://www.bitsfrombytes.com/sites/www.bitsfrombytes.com/files/Photo%20Mar%2005,%208%2053%2011%20PM.jpg
I couldn't find a small brush so I make some space for it. It cleans the extruders much better hopefully.
br
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
markku
- Full Member
- Posts: 112
- Who? Me?
Got my aluminium bed. Printed quite large stuff yesterday (PLA, 130x100mm) without any heating or problems after z-calibration. Now waiting to get some time to test ABS+heated bed. ABS seems to be really hard even with quite small parts...or maybe it was just my poor z-calibration.
br
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
113peter
- Newbie
- Posts: 17
- 3D Touch triple head, KISSlicer Pro
Hi Markku,
good luck with your trials!
I am in the process myself, with the following configuration, source and cost included for anyone who might need the info:
1) 5mm aluminum bed, ?40.-
Local lasercutting shop
2) silicone heating pad, 200x300mm, 400w, 220V, thermal element type J, ?75.-
http://www.freek.de/produkte/flaechenheizelemente.php#nr811
3) controller to match, ?195.-
http://www.pohltechnik.com/product_info.php/info/p140_Temperaturregler-Tischger-t-Schaltlast-bis-10A.html
Observations so far (ran up to 76?C setting/70?C effective aluminum surface:
>Need about 10min preheating time for even temperature distribution.
>Heat distribution is reasonable, about a 4?C deviation across the mat area, about 8C deviation outside the mat area.
>Z calibration needs to be adjusted for every temperature level.
>Blue painter tape is not adhering good enough to print ABS without raft at 70C. PLA raft at +6 helps.
>At 70?C, the heat is not dissipating into the structure of the bed moving mechanism.
>70C is not enough to prevent ABS warping on larger parts.
I will continue to increase temperature to find a good setting for larger parts.
BR
Peter
good luck with your trials!
I am in the process myself, with the following configuration, source and cost included for anyone who might need the info:
1) 5mm aluminum bed, ?40.-
Local lasercutting shop
2) silicone heating pad, 200x300mm, 400w, 220V, thermal element type J, ?75.-
http://www.freek.de/produkte/flaechenheizelemente.php#nr811
3) controller to match, ?195.-
http://www.pohltechnik.com/product_info.php/info/p140_Temperaturregler-Tischger-t-Schaltlast-bis-10A.html
Observations so far (ran up to 76?C setting/70?C effective aluminum surface:
>Need about 10min preheating time for even temperature distribution.
>Heat distribution is reasonable, about a 4?C deviation across the mat area, about 8C deviation outside the mat area.
>Z calibration needs to be adjusted for every temperature level.
>Blue painter tape is not adhering good enough to print ABS without raft at 70C. PLA raft at +6 helps.
>At 70?C, the heat is not dissipating into the structure of the bed moving mechanism.
>70C is not enough to prevent ABS warping on larger parts.
I will continue to increase temperature to find a good setting for larger parts.
BR
Peter
DeepOrange
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 79
- 3d Touch - Dual head
Hi Peter,
I have a few questions for you...
Do you have any photos of your aluminium bed with the heater?
Why do you need to adjust the Z cal? Is it because of the magnet heating up?
Have you tried any other methods of sticking the part/raft to the bed?
Cheers,
I have a few questions for you...
Do you have any photos of your aluminium bed with the heater?
Why do you need to adjust the Z cal? Is it because of the magnet heating up?
Have you tried any other methods of sticking the part/raft to the bed?
Cheers,
DeepOrange
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 79
- 3d Touch - Dual head
Got my aluminium bed. Printed quite large stuff yesterday (PLA, 130x100mm) without any heating or problems after z-calibration. Now waiting to get some time to test ABS+heated bed. ABS seems to be really hard even with quite small parts...or maybe it was just my poor z-calibration.
Good luck with it Markku,
What are you using to stick the PLA to the aluminium?
Do you have any photos?
113peter
- Newbie
- Posts: 17
- 3D Touch triple head, KISSlicer Pro
Hi DeepOrange,
this is the setup:
>heatpad (adhesive backed) is adhered to the bottom of the aluminum bed with a small metal plate in the center to hold the magnet
>controller sits next to printer
>cables travel freely
The Z calibration is indeed necessary due to the magnet losing strength under heat.
So far I have tried blue painter's tape, works well without heat but loses adhesion under heat.
I have also tried some other tapes that worked well in terms of ABS or PLA sticking to them, but even better adhering to the aluminum themselves so removal was the issue.
Currently I am waiting for Kapton tape, I'll report how this will be performing.
BR
Peter
this is the setup:
>heatpad (adhesive backed) is adhered to the bottom of the aluminum bed with a small metal plate in the center to hold the magnet
>controller sits next to printer
>cables travel freely
The Z calibration is indeed necessary due to the magnet losing strength under heat.
So far I have tried blue painter's tape, works well without heat but loses adhesion under heat.
I have also tried some other tapes that worked well in terms of ABS or PLA sticking to them, but even better adhering to the aluminum themselves so removal was the issue.
Currently I am waiting for Kapton tape, I'll report how this will be performing.
BR
Peter
3D Touch heated bed.jpg (85.27 kB, 800x600 - viewed 27 times.)
heated bed bottom.jpg (78.41 kB, 800x600 - viewed 29 times.)markku
- Full Member
- Posts: 112
- Who? Me?
Same kind of heater and plate here. Did test with same part which was printed just fine with my MDF bed without heating and now suddenly having problems to get raft sticked...weird. Maybe I just have to calibrate again and try. Using kapton tape.
br
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
DeepOrange
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 79
- 3d Touch - Dual head
>heatpad (adhesive backed) is adhered to the bottom of the aluminum bed with a small metal plate in the center to hold the magnet
>controller sits next to printer
>cables travel freely
Looks great Peter!
Did you not have the magnet recessed into the bed? I would imagine this would bring it closer to the sensor on the extruder.
You can try Samarium Cobalt (SaCo) magnets? They apparently are rated to 200deg C.http://www.magnet.com.au/samarium_cobalt_magnets#viewProduct
markku
- Full Member
- Posts: 112
- Who? Me?
My magnets are 4 mm thick, so I have a 4 mm deep hole for them in 5 mm aluminium. Works.
Running large cold PLA-print with ABS-raft with new bed and it looks finally ok after several tries...everything just needs to be adjusted properly. Z-calibration, Z-offset and bed roughness are really important...at least in my case...to get good result.
Running large cold PLA-print with ABS-raft with new bed and it looks finally ok after several tries...everything just needs to be adjusted properly. Z-calibration, Z-offset and bed roughness are really important...at least in my case...to get good result.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 12:59:03 AM by markku »
br
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
113peter
- Newbie
- Posts: 17
- 3D Touch triple head, KISSlicer Pro
Hi DeepOrange,
thanks for the hint about the SaCo magnets, I'll check. If they are really even performers up to 200C, this would save quite a bit od adjusting.
I have put the magnet on the bottom of the heatpad for one simple reason: accessibility.
The heat will affect the magnet's strength whether it is mounted at the bottom or between heatpad and bed surface in a recess, but the latter constellation means peeling the heatpad off to get to the magnet, if need be, and regluing the pad. Since the magnet is an open topic, I decided to put it where I can get to it. The strength must be sufficient to get through the pad and the bed, of course, with allowance for heat.
Hi Markku,
yes, the whole machine needs to be calibrated to the new bed, but it is worth it because it will need to be done less often than with a constantly changing stock bed - at least the aluminum version does not warp or buckle so far.
If Kapton tape fixes the adhesion to the bed under heat and the SaCo magnet fixes temp related Z-height adjustment, everything will be fine. Maybe BFB can implement then. ;-)
BR
Peter
thanks for the hint about the SaCo magnets, I'll check. If they are really even performers up to 200C, this would save quite a bit od adjusting.
I have put the magnet on the bottom of the heatpad for one simple reason: accessibility.
The heat will affect the magnet's strength whether it is mounted at the bottom or between heatpad and bed surface in a recess, but the latter constellation means peeling the heatpad off to get to the magnet, if need be, and regluing the pad. Since the magnet is an open topic, I decided to put it where I can get to it. The strength must be sufficient to get through the pad and the bed, of course, with allowance for heat.
Hi Markku,
yes, the whole machine needs to be calibrated to the new bed, but it is worth it because it will need to be done less often than with a constantly changing stock bed - at least the aluminum version does not warp or buckle so far.
If Kapton tape fixes the adhesion to the bed under heat and the SaCo magnet fixes temp related Z-height adjustment, everything will be fine. Maybe BFB can implement then. ;-)
BR
Peter
SyntaxCapt
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 92
Hello everyone!
I'm the local Kisslicer noob that had decided I can't stand axon much longer and am looking forward to seeing how far this thing will go!
Anyhow, I thought I would share my heated bed project I started working on. It's based off of hairygael most excellent design he used for his own 3D Touch (I even managed to find a supplier for unclad FR4 that will cut to size).
It's not quite finished yet. I think I'm at the point where I need to choose a heat source ( I think I have a cheap solution).
My one issue is weight I think it's closing in on 4.5-5 lbs. Bathroom scale is accurate right
!? So I'm curious what other peoples custom beds weigh in at.
Here's some pictures!
It's white?
I'm the local Kisslicer noob that had decided I can't stand axon much longer and am looking forward to seeing how far this thing will go!
Anyhow, I thought I would share my heated bed project I started working on. It's based off of hairygael most excellent design he used for his own 3D Touch (I even managed to find a supplier for unclad FR4 that will cut to size).
It's not quite finished yet. I think I'm at the point where I need to choose a heat source ( I think I have a cheap solution).
My one issue is weight I think it's closing in on 4.5-5 lbs. Bathroom scale is accurate right
!? So I'm curious what other peoples custom beds weigh in at. Here's some pictures!
It's white?
BFB 3D Touch Dual head
Heated bed Mod
Firmware version: 5.2.0
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0
Heated bed Mod
Firmware version: 5.2.0
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0
SyntaxCapt
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 92
Sorry about the photo size... guess I should have had resized it before posting.
BFB 3D Touch Dual head
Heated bed Mod
Firmware version: 5.2.0
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0
Heated bed Mod
Firmware version: 5.2.0
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0
lonesock (Jonathan)
- KISSlicer Developer
- Administrator
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1042
- Alibre -> KISSlicer -> RapMan 3.1
Hi, SyntaxCapt, welcome to the forums!
Looks like a great project, please keep us up-to-date!
Jonathan
P.S. I'll see if I can set the forums to resize images automatically. I guess people could use outside hosting for larger images?
Looks like a great project, please keep us up-to-date!
Jonathan
P.S. I'll see if I can set the forums to resize images automatically. I guess people could use outside hosting for larger images?
*A2TD : "Added to the ToDo list"
markku
- Full Member
- Posts: 112
- Who? Me?
Here's mine. Drawings for the bed are also here somewhere deep in forum to download :-)
And just an idea for large stuff: how about an option to print first layers slowly (setting should ask fo mm's I guess) and then the rest of them faster (normal speed)? This way maybe there's less warping..
And just an idea for large stuff: how about an option to print first layers slowly (setting should ask fo mm's I guess) and then the rest of them faster (normal speed)? This way maybe there's less warping..
IMG22.25.15_30-03-2012.jpg (87.17 kB, 600x359 - viewed 25 times.)
IMG22.26.07_30-03-2012.jpg (85.97 kB, 600x359 - viewed 25 times.)« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 11:39:19 AM by markku »
br
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
DeepOrange
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 79
- 3d Touch - Dual head
Looks great Markku!
I presume that is kapton tape you are using. Have you had much success?
I presume that is kapton tape you are using. Have you had much success?
markku
- Full Member
- Posts: 112
- Who? Me?
Yep, kapton.
Printing quite large part right now, bed tem about 85 and printing really slow to avoid warping. So far looking good...takes about 30 hours to finish :-(
Printing quite large part right now, bed tem about 85 and printing really slow to avoid warping. So far looking good...takes about 30 hours to finish :-(
br
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
markku
- Full Member
- Posts: 112
- Who? Me?
Ok, more testing made. It seems that temperature should be more like 100C than 70C to get non warping ABS...at least for my aluminium bed.
br
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
Markku
www.sloworks.fi
3DTouch 2-head (firmware 5.4.1 ->back to 5.2), KISSlicer Pro 1.1.0, SolidWorks 2013/Win7_64-bit
hairygael
- Newbie
- Posts: 13
- BFB Touch Dual Head. Blender-Netfabb-KisslicerPro
Hi syntaxcapt, nice to see that my heated bed makes babies. Your unclad sheet looks different then mine, is it smooth on the surface?
Concerning temperatures for ABS, I run always at 95/97, it's what comes the best for me. I find that during long prints if the temperature is higher, the first layers become a bit yellow, like overcooked.
But I can print big parts and it sticks good. The issues I had mostly is when I print big thick parts (2cm)with a full infill, with a fast printing.(fast85%with kisslicer)
Picture with a big print.
Hey peter113, I see on your BFB you use my "3d touch filament cutting knife", is it any good for you? I ask because I never had any feedback on thingiverse although it has been downloaded quite a few times.
Magnet temperature stays an issue also for me, I bought some special alnico magnet supposed to stand temperature up 200C, it was not any better. Maybe I should try the one you mentionned. Another option would be to set the sensor and the magnet somewhere else on the bed, where it doesn't heat up but I don't know if we can change the firmware about that. Don't think so.
Concerning temperatures for ABS, I run always at 95/97, it's what comes the best for me. I find that during long prints if the temperature is higher, the first layers become a bit yellow, like overcooked.
But I can print big parts and it sticks good. The issues I had mostly is when I print big thick parts (2cm)with a full infill, with a fast printing.(fast85%with kisslicer)
Picture with a big print.
Hey peter113, I see on your BFB you use my "3d touch filament cutting knife", is it any good for you? I ask because I never had any feedback on thingiverse although it has been downloaded quite a few times.
Magnet temperature stays an issue also for me, I bought some special alnico magnet supposed to stand temperature up 200C, it was not any better. Maybe I should try the one you mentionned. Another option would be to set the sensor and the magnet somewhere else on the bed, where it doesn't heat up but I don't know if we can change the firmware about that. Don't think so.
hairygael
- Newbie
- Posts: 13
- BFB Touch Dual Head. Blender-Netfabb-KisslicerPro
Big print on a BFB 3D touch 
lonesock (Jonathan)
- KISSlicer Developer
- Administrator
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1042
- Alibre -> KISSlicer -> RapMan 3.1
Great print!
Jonathan
Jonathan
*A2TD : "Added to the ToDo list"
SyntaxCapt
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 92
Hello hairygael, the FR4 feels smooth with a somewhat grainy texture to it. I hope it reacts the same to ABS as on yours. This stuff was mighty hard to find in North America (at least for me it was!). Haven't had a chance to test it. I'm still waiting for my Nichrome wire to come in (another product I couldn't find locally).
I have a question for you in regards to your Ceramic glass sheet; would you say it's flat? Does it bow in the middle? I used a sheet of tempered glass in the one I'm building and I was disappointed to find it's bowed. When I put my straight edge across it I can get a .015" shim under it. Guess I'll stick to printing in the middle once I get it going.
What does your bed weigh in at?
Here's some added pictures. One of them illustrates the magnet I went with http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=58750&cat=1,42363,42348
I have a question for you in regards to your Ceramic glass sheet; would you say it's flat? Does it bow in the middle? I used a sheet of tempered glass in the one I'm building and I was disappointed to find it's bowed
. When I put my straight edge across it I can get a .015" shim under it. Guess I'll stick to printing in the middle once I get it going.What does your bed weigh in at?
Here's some added pictures. One of them illustrates the magnet I went with http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=58750&cat=1,42363,42348
Limit switch.png (1402.64 kB, 1000x750 - viewed 42 times.)
IMG_0286.JPG (169.42 kB, 1000x750 - viewed 25 times.)BFB 3D Touch Dual head
Heated bed Mod
Firmware version: 5.2.0
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0
Heated bed Mod
Firmware version: 5.2.0
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0
hairygael
- Newbie
- Posts: 13
- BFB Touch Dual Head. Blender-Netfabb-KisslicerPro
@Syntaxcapt Hi have just weigh the complete bed including wires, electronic thermostat, glass, FR4 and pegs comes to 2,235kg. Yours looks good with the aluminum. My ceramic glass is perfectly flat, I also have a spare one "just in case" and checked it out, it's also flat. Checked also with a 120C to make sure, and stays flat, actually if it haden't I would have had trouble printing...
I have put a picture of my FR4 sheet surface, mine is almost glassy. Well what is important is that it sticks! When do you get your nichrome? You should have contacted me, I could have sent you a meter or a meter and a half, depends on the voltage you want to use. Hey all the others, don't think I'm going to send nichrome everywhere around the world though!
Your magnet is a nice set up, also better then mine.
I had bought this: http://cgi.ebay.fr/Red-Deep-Pot-Magnet-Alnico-5-up-to-220-deg-C-6kg-Pull-27-x-25mm-M6-hole-/230700496494?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35b6d2366e
Thinking they wouldn't change with the temperture but it's the same, Zheight evolves with the temperture...
I have put a picture of my FR4 sheet surface, mine is almost glassy. Well what is important is that it sticks! When do you get your nichrome? You should have contacted me, I could have sent you a meter or a meter and a half, depends on the voltage you want to use. Hey all the others, don't think I'm going to send nichrome everywhere around the world though!
Your magnet is a nice set up, also better then mine.
I had bought this: http://cgi.ebay.fr/Red-Deep-Pot-Magnet-Alnico-5-up-to-220-deg-C-6kg-Pull-27-x-25mm-M6-hole-/230700496494?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35b6d2366e
Thinking they wouldn't change with the temperture but it's the same, Zheight evolves with the temperture...
hairygael
- Newbie
- Posts: 13
- BFB Touch Dual Head. Blender-Netfabb-KisslicerPro
Looking again at your picture with the magnet, it gave me a very simple solution to my heat problem with the magnet. Until now I have always attached my magnet to the glass which makes it become as hot as the bed, You instead you have attached it under to the aluminium which will prevent it from heating up if you use a wool sheet shield. Thanks, I shall try that soon. 
SyntaxCapt
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 92
That's very generous of you 
, but my wire already arrived, about 3 hours ago, hehe. I purchased some 24 gauge wire. I'd hate for you to have to ship oversees.
So with no wire or insulation paper installed yet it comes in at 1.95 kg. Sounds like that should be an acceptable amount.
The magnet positioning worked out better than I had planned, actually. When the magnet is touching the glass the limit switch will activate very early. the carriage moves so fast when it's homing, but I'd have to say it'll activate an additional 3.5mm over the original bed. The way it's mounted (currently threaded into the aluminum plate using 10-32 machine screws) allows me to move it towards or away from the glass.
Oh, and thanks for informing me about the heat reacting to the magnet. I hadn't realized that that much heat could effect the magnet's strength.
Here's another photo of the magnet and the magnet cups I got from Lee-Valley (I'm pretty sure they ship to Europe):
, but my wire already arrived, about 3 hours ago, hehe. I purchased some 24 gauge wire. I'd hate for you to have to ship oversees.So with no wire or insulation paper installed yet it comes in at 1.95 kg. Sounds like that should be an acceptable amount.
The magnet positioning worked out better than I had planned, actually. When the magnet is touching the glass the limit switch will activate very early. the carriage moves so fast when it's homing, but I'd have to say it'll activate an additional 3.5mm over the original bed. The way it's mounted (currently threaded into the aluminum plate using 10-32 machine screws) allows me to move it towards or away from the glass.
Oh, and thanks for informing me about the heat reacting to the magnet. I hadn't realized that that much heat could effect the magnet's strength.
Here's another photo of the magnet and the magnet cups I got from Lee-Valley (I'm pretty sure they ship to Europe):
BFB 3D Touch Dual head
Heated bed Mod
Firmware version: 5.2.0
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0
Heated bed Mod
Firmware version: 5.2.0
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0
Eddi
- Newbie
- Posts: 3
- BFB 3Dtouch Dualhead - customized heated bed
Hey Peter,
I like your bed. I am building something similar, perhaps we can share some information. I can heat my bed up to 150?C and probably higher (untested) using a 400W silicon heating pad. As you can see I mounted the bed on top of the original bed, which was a bad idea as it cracked and bent because of the heat. My aluminium is a milled ALPLAN 6mm (cant find anything under 6mm..tried to mill it down to 3mm but the metal warped completely) as its thermal stable at these temperatures. I used a strong magnet which I layed on the original bed. But I had a hell of a time calibrating it because of the magnetic field changing. But I did manage to print pretty big ABS stuff.
So now I'm constructing a heating bed which will be attached on the 3 springs (a bit like yours) using PTFE/Teflon in between as it's stable at high temperatures and acts also as good thermal (and electrical) insulation. I'll probably put a strong magnet somewhere in between the bed and the Teflon construct so it doesn't get so hot.
Where do I get that wool sheet btw?
cheers
-Eddi
I like your bed. I am building something similar, perhaps we can share some information
. I can heat my bed up to 150?C and probably higher (untested) using a 400W silicon heating pad. As you can see I mounted the bed on top of the original bed, which was a bad idea as it cracked and bent because of the heat. My aluminium is a milled ALPLAN 6mm (cant find anything under 6mm..tried to mill it down to 3mm but the metal warped completely) as its thermal stable at these temperatures. I used a strong magnet which I layed on the original bed. But I had a hell of a time calibrating it because of the magnetic field changing. But I did manage to print pretty big ABS stuff.So now I'm constructing a heating bed which will be attached on the 3 springs (a bit like yours) using PTFE/Teflon in between as it's stable at high temperatures and acts also as good thermal (and electrical) insulation. I'll probably put a strong magnet somewhere in between the bed and the Teflon construct so it doesn't get so hot.
Where do I get that wool sheet btw?
cheers
-Eddi
20120221_172501.jpg (590.82 kB, 1200x900 - viewed 35 times.)
20120402_212936.jpg (509.94 kB, 1200x900 - viewed 28 times.)« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 02:26:49 PM by Eddi »
setar
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 53
someone tried to apply a thick glass instead of aluminum?
when using silicon heating pad heating will be uniform, and will not be the effect of thermal expansion
when using silicon heating pad heating will be uniform, and will not be the effect of thermal expansion
Mengel Prusa metric linear / 1 Head (wade extruder 1.75).
lonesock (Jonathan)
- KISSlicer Developer
- Administrator
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1042
- Alibre -> KISSlicer -> RapMan 3.1
Check out this printer: http://www.fablicator.com/
It mentions using "a unique Borosilicate glass build surface".
Jonathan
It mentions using "a unique Borosilicate glass build surface".
Jonathan
*A2TD : "Added to the ToDo list"
SyntaxCapt
- Jr. Member
- Posts: 92
Hello everyone! So I got to use my heated bed finally. Had trouble understanding Nichrome wire and the PID I had found in my basement is like 20 years old!
Ordered some great stuff from http://www.lightobject.com/ for great prices.
Anyway, I'm using the FR4 Fiber board as a build surface (based off hairygael's design). After heating it up to 85 deg C it became warped. However, under it's own weight it's really quite flat. It also heats up pretty evenly (even though I have the electrical wired in series).
I am, unfortunately, having trouble with ABS sticking to it. Bit of a hit or miss when starting a print and trying to find that sweet spot. Seems if I start the temp out really low (45 deg C) it'll stick. Once I get a few layers in I begin to bump up the temperature.
The three prints I've tested so far were secured perfectly and the finish on the bottom is great. A light tap with a mini hammer removes them with ease.
So yeah, Unclad FR 4 PCB fiber board (Mine is .079" think) potentially makes for a great built surface.
Ordered some great stuff from http://www.lightobject.com/ for great prices.
Anyway, I'm using the FR4 Fiber board as a build surface (based off hairygael's design). After heating it up to 85 deg C it became warped. However, under it's own weight it's really quite flat. It also heats up pretty evenly (even though I have the electrical wired in series).
I am, unfortunately, having trouble with ABS sticking to it. Bit of a hit or miss when starting a print and trying to find that sweet spot. Seems if I start the temp out really low (45 deg C) it'll stick. Once I get a few layers in I begin to bump up the temperature.
The three prints I've tested so far were secured perfectly and the finish on the bottom is great. A light tap with a mini hammer removes them with ease.
So yeah, Unclad FR 4 PCB fiber board (Mine is .079" think) potentially makes for a great built surface.
BFB 3D Touch Dual head
Heated bed Mod
Firmware version: 5.2.0
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0
Heated bed Mod
Firmware version: 5.2.0
Kisslicer Pro 1.1.0
Eddi
- Newbie
- Posts: 3
- BFB 3Dtouch Dualhead - customized heated bed
I've been experimenting quite a while now and have given up more or less using FR4 as it warps slightly in the middle and you can't really fixate it down properly in the middle. And ABS just doesn't stick as well enough on FR4 as on PET tape. Kapton tape doesnt seem to work for me either, as it's a mess when applying it to the aluminium bed. PET is so much easier to fixate without any trapped air pockets or creases compared to kapton tap and sticks really well and my parts have never warped. The parts just pop off more or less once cooled down. The surface is just perfect shiny. So I'm sticking with PET at the moment.
cheers
cheers
jfpion
- Newbie
- Posts: 41
I'm actually printing a lot of ABS part for a new mendel like printer
I print at 240?C on an heated Glass+kapton bed
it stick enough on it but for some big part I got some wrapping effect.
I cure it by using the pad system in the STL file (2 layers of 0.25 hight) 90? croosing to get a very strong brim but easy enough to cut it out with a simple cutter.
in the joined file some pict of my new printer and a stl file with the built in pad system
by the way it could be a very good idea to give the option of 1,2,or 3 layer for the brim in the next release
thank you
I print at 240?C on an heated Glass+kapton bed
it stick enough on it but for some big part I got some wrapping effect.
I cure it by using the pad system in the STL file (2 layers of 0.25 hight) 90? croosing to get a very strong brim but easy enough to cut it out with a simple cutter.
in the joined file some pict of my new printer and a stl file with the built in pad system
by the way it could be a very good idea to give the option of 1,2,or 3 layer for the brim in the next release
thank you
structure.jpg (564.53 kB, 3144x2910 - viewed 18 times.)
support mot.jpg (370 kB, 3219x2022 - viewed 11 times.) support moteur z a.stl (130.94 kB - downloaded 1 times.)PenskeGuy
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1236
- Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day
There's most likely a heated print bed in my future. Been looking at the 3D Touch bed design for some time and when I make one, the center to left won't be cut out. I was printing something placed toward the back of the bed and noticed that the rear fan was just blowing down into the lower cavity; not cooling the print as much as it could. There's only the one fan back there and it needs as much help as it can get. Bleeding off pressure by having no surface there isn't helping. Taping a stiff card off the underside of the bed that closes off the opening from the box all the way to the left support cures the problem. In the case of heated beds made from stable materials, only the one cutout for the box needs to be made because the bed won't be flipped.
Next improvement to make is attaching a funnel-like extension to the wipe box, so that it catches more stuff. The bottom of the printer gets littered with shrapnel because half of the bits just don't cooperate and fall straight down into the box; instead flying/bouncing all over the place.
Next improvement to make is attaching a funnel-like extension to the wipe box, so that it catches more stuff. The bottom of the printer gets littered with shrapnel because half of the bits just don't cooperate and fall straight down into the box; instead flying/bouncing all over the place.
PenskeGuy
- Hero Member
- Posts: 1236
- Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day
I had this section in the previous post and then thought I'd overlooked a key point, so took it out. Now that I've had some rest, I realize that this is a valid observation after all. AFAIK, there is no reason for the wipe box to be on the far right. It could easily have been centered. There's nothing that would conflict with it in this location; thereby allowing for only one small cutout on the back edge of the build platform right in the center. If I could hack the firmware and move the pre-heat position, I would, and move the wipe box where it should be.
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