Material settings Makerbot MK7 or MK8 NinjaFlex (fenner-drives)

[lucas...@hotmail.com]

Hello,

this material settings are originally based on this post(actually the version from 2013, but that post I could´t find anymore):

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/kisslicer-refugee-camp/Qp4GkDmtJL4

Can anybody take a look and help me with the "ninja-flex" from "fenner-drive" there? Cannot get reliable prints for that. With makerware it all looks very good!

Apart from that I try to fix a problem where after extruder-change when printing dual-headed, the material is "spit-out" at the top (moves too much material back). Can this be changed with "prime", "suck" and "wipe" as far as I understand. As said the tests I make with kisslicer (apart from maker ware, where everything is fine, BUT no second extruder for Thing-O-Matics!) are based on replicator profiles and I just got recently to know, that when MB changed from MK7 to MK8 the diameter of the metal-wheel on the extruder was changed to a smaller. So I have to set it to less I guess, but to me a Wipe of 4mm is really not so much, since the tube has at least 2-3cm on the Thing-O-Matic? How to calculate all that?

Drive-Gear Makerbots:

MK7:

• Dimension: 11mm (height) x 12mm (diameter)
• Effective diameter: 10.5mm
• MK8:
  
• Dimension: 11mm (height) x 9mm (diameter)
• Effective diameter: 7mm

See: http://reprap.org/wiki/Drive-gear

• 
  

The future-request question that comes to my mind regarding materials:

Actually I would have to set the printing speed only for this material different then for all other materials (if you check the data-sheet of ninjaflex from fenner-drives), since this is in KISSlicer not material-specific, I would have to make two sets of profiles? But making print and travel speeds material-specific is as well a bit strange?

Future-request regarding "material"-tab: For me as a german the english explanation that come up when you hover with the mouse are sometimes hard to understand, would be great if they could be more precise and easier to understand.

UPDATE: Updated profile, work in progress, see last post

Best, Lucas

[funBart]

I don't know a lot of TOM, but some answers:

On Saturday, 5 July 2014 19:39:47 UTC+2, lucas...@hotmail.com wrote:

Hello,

this material settings are originally based on this post(actually the version from 2013, but that post I could´t find anymore):

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/kisslicer-refugee-camp/Qp4GkDmtJL4

Can anybody take a look and help me with the "ninja-flex" from "fenner-drive" there? Cannot get reliable prints for that. With makerware it all looks very good!

What settings have you set in Makerware: 1.75mm diameter? what packing density? 

Apart from that I try to fix a problem where after extruder-change when printing dual-headed, the material is "spit-out" at the top (moves too much material back). Can this be changed with "prime", "suck" and "wipe" as far as I understand.

Wipe is only going back over the printed path without extruding, to 'wipe'.

Suck and prime do as expected:  you have set prime to 0.9 and suck to 0.2: maybe change to each 0.5mm first. Look in your Makerware profile what is set for Suck and prime and copy that values for this specific material..

Kisslicer calculates the amount of extrusion (E value) like this: path width (0.4) x layer thicknes (0.3) x path length. 

This E value (how many raw filament is transported) has to be set in the firmware: how many steps of the steppermotor are needed to transport 1mm filament. This is normally already set in the firmware, so you don't have to calculate that, unless you have changed your TOM. Each type Replicator has other values for that E steps/mm. Advised by Sailfish is to calibrate that value in your firmware settings. 

You have set your flow value to 2? Why? that's giving twice the volume normally needed. That shouldn't be necessary when using a measured diameter of the filament. (did you measure the Ninjaflex with calipers?). Normally the flow tweak has to be set to 1.

Under Printer / Extruder hardware you are using A and B values for extrusion. You can use that with GPX, because that's converting it correctly, but not when importing in ReplicatorG (sailfish edition). I recommend to set them both to "E"

As said the tests I make with kisslicer (apart from maker ware, where everything is fine, BUT no second extruder for Thing-O-Matics!) are based on replicator profiles and I just got recently to know, that when MB changed from MK7 to MK8 the diameter of the metal-wheel on the extruder was changed to a smaller. So I have to set it to less I guess, but to me a Wipe of 4mm is really not so much, since the tube has at least 2-3cm on the Thing-O-Matic? How to calculate all that?

as said: wipe doesn't do anything with the extrusion, it's like wiping your feet on the already printed path: when triggered it's just going 4mm backwards.

 

Drive-Gear Makerbots:

MK7:

• Dimension: 11mm (height) x 12mm (diameter)
• Effective diameter: 10.5mm
• MK8:
  
• Dimension: 11mm (height) x 9mm (diameter)
• Effective diameter: 7mm
• 
  

The future-request question that comes to my mind regarding materials:

Actually I would have to set the printing speed only for this material different then for all other materials (if you check the data-sheet of ninjaflex from fenner-drives), since this is in KISSlicer not material-specific, I would have to make two sets of profiles? But making print and travel speeds material-specific is as well a bit strange?

Not strange at all: ABS and PLA can be printed at high speed, but some other, like Nylon, requiring lower speeds. When printing dual it's making sense that each material is printed with the material belonging speed. 

 

You can do that by adjusting the max flow under that material. For example: a max flow of 3 mm3/s is resulting in a max speed of that material (for example with 0.3mm layer height and 0.4 path width): 3(flow)/(0.4x0.3)=max 25mm/s. Whatever you set on the speed tab.

Your extruder change code is making no sense and will not result in a toolchange.

Beside that: I never saw Makerbot extruder change code with the lowering of the Vrefs. It's not necessary to my believe. (it's only used in the start Gcode while heating the bed)

You have:

(**** Select Gcode extruder change***)

M108 T<EXT+n> (select extruder)

M104 S<TEMP> T<EXT+n> (set Temperature)

G130 X20 Y20 A20 B20 (Lower stepper Vrefs while heating)

M6 T<EXT+n> (wait to reach temperature)

G130 X127 Y127 A127 B127 (Set Stepper motor Vref to defaults)

Change the select Gcode to (not EXT+n, but EXT+0)

M108 T<EXT+0> (toolchange)

M104  S<TEMP>  (enable to set active tool to main temp)

M6 T<EXT+0> (enable to wait for temp active tool reached)

and deselect from

(**** DeSelect Gcode extruder change***)

M104 S<TEMP><%> T<EXT+n> (set Temperature) (not makerbot style)

to

(**** DeSelect Gcode extruder change***)

M104  S<TEMP> (enable to set inactive tool to inactive temp)

You don't have mapped the materials to the extruders on the Printer / Extruder materials tab (all now to EXT 1), but maybe you have done it by mapping it rightclicking on the stl model.

Last thing: the commands Fan on and Fan off are set to M126/M127 on the printer / firmware tab. I don't think this is used by TOM, but I can be wrong.

Future-request regarding "material"-tab: For me as a german the english explanation that come up when you hover with the mouse are sometimes hard to understand, would be great if they could be more precise and easier to understand.

 

And that's were you come in, as all that translations are made by Kisslicer users ;-) There is a German language file as far I know to import, but outdated with the newest version. It's a start though.

Import it under file / preferences: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/kisslicer-refugee-camp/eln88xbHzhs/tcXqq0vOhnkJ

It's attached as well to this post.

Hope it helps.

Now going to watch the WK match Netherlands / Costa Rica. We are going to meet the Germans in a while I hope ;-)

Bart

Best, Lucas

[funBart]

BTW, aren't you missing the right warming Gcode in the start Gcode for bed and extruders? 

Be careful, as I managed once to heat someones TOM HPB to 180 degrees, because of the TOM specific startGcode / as well the different use of M126/M127, if I recall correctly.

Bart

[lucas...@hotmail.com]

First, thanks again for your support! At least one MB-user trying to dig things out!

On Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:01:59 PM UTC+2, funBart wrote:

I don't know a lot of TOM, but some answers:

On Saturday, 5 July 2014 19:39:47 UTC+2, lucas...@hotmail.com wrote:

Hello,

this material settings are originally based on this post(actually the version from 2013, but that post I could´t find anymore):

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/kisslicer-refugee-camp/Qp4GkDmtJL4

Can anybody take a look and help me with the "ninja-flex" from "fenner-drive" there? Cannot get reliable prints for that. With makerware it all looks very good!

What settings have you set in Makerware: 1.75mm diameter? what packing density? 

Forgot that: 1.75mm. Packing density?

 

Apart from that I try to fix a problem where after extruder-change when printing dual-headed, the material is "spit-out" at the top (moves too much material back). Can this be changed with "prime", "suck" and "wipe" as far as I understand.

Wipe is only going back over the printed path without extruding, to 'wipe'.

Suck and prime do as expected:  you have set prime to 0.9 and suck to 0.2: maybe change to each 0.5mm first. Look in your Makerware profile what is set for Suck and prime and copy that values for this specific material..

Kisslicer calculates the amount of extrusion (E value) like this: path width (0.4) x layer thicknes (0.3) x path length. 

This E value (how many raw filament is transported) has to be set in the firmware: how many steps of the steppermotor are needed to transport 1mm filament. This is normally already set in the firmware, so you don't have to calculate that, unless you have changed your TOM. Each type Replicator has other values for that E steps/mm. Advised by Sailfish is to calibrate that value in your firmware settings. 

You have set your flow value to 2? Why? that's giving twice the volume normally needed. That shouldn't be necessary when using a measured diameter of the filament. (did you measure the Ninjaflex with calipers?). Normally the flow tweak has to be set to 1.

Under Printer / Extruder hardware you are using A and B values for extrusion. You can use that with GPX, because that's converting it correctly, but not when importing in ReplicatorG (sailfish edition). I recommend to set them both to "E"

Ah!

 

As said the tests I make with kisslicer (apart from maker ware, where everything is fine, BUT no second extruder for Thing-O-Matics!) are based on replicator profiles and I just got recently to know, that when MB changed from MK7 to MK8 the diameter of the metal-wheel on the extruder was changed to a smaller. So I have to set it to less I guess, but to me a Wipe of 4mm is really not so much, since the tube has at least 2-3cm on the Thing-O-Matic? How to calculate all that?

as said: wipe doesn't do anything with the extrusion, it's like wiping your feet on the already printed path: when triggered it's just going 4mm backwards.

Good to know. but since "suck" was even lower than 0.5, would´t that then result in less movement?

 

 

Drive-Gear Makerbots:

MK7:

• Dimension: 11mm (height) x 12mm (diameter)
• Effective diameter: 10.5mm
• MK8:
  
• Dimension: 11mm (height) x 9mm (diameter)
• Effective diameter: 7mm
• 
  

The future-request question that comes to my mind regarding materials:

Actually I would have to set the printing speed only for this material different then for all other materials (if you check the data-sheet of ninjaflex from fenner-drives), since this is in KISSlicer not material-specific, I would have to make two sets of profiles? But making print and travel speeds material-specific is as well a bit strange?

Not strange at all: ABS and PLA can be printed at high speed, but some other, like Nylon, requiring lower speeds. When printing dual it's making sense that each material is printed with the material belonging speed. 

 

You can do that by adjusting the max flow under that material. For example: a max flow of 3 mm3/s is resulting in a max speed of that material (for example with 0.3mm layer height and 0.4 path width): 3(flow)/(0.4x0.3)=max 25mm/s. Whatever you set on the speed tab.

That will make a huge change!

 

Your extruder change code is making no sense and will not result in a toolchange.

It results in a extruder-change and is fine! This is due to the fact that "old" g-code from MB was changed over 2011-to-2012 when they went closed. Since sailfish supports both g-code flavors at least the last 2 years this worked fine for me but maybe I was just a lucky? 0 makes more sense then n, but results in the same! Or what else do you mean? The <%> I just copied in today and already found out it doesn´t make sense, but the rest I guess is mb-style, as far as I know the tool -can- be always specified and makes thinks for me easier to understand when reading a g-code some while after slicing.

 

Beside that: I never saw Makerbot extruder change code with the lowering of the Vrefs. It's not necessary to my believe.

Yeah copied that in today to try it out. Maybe I take it out again. Makes most sense on startup, commented it out now.

 

You have:

(**** Select Gcode extruder change***)

M108 T<EXT+n> (select extruder)

M104 S<TEMP> T<EXT+n> (set Temperature)

G130 X20 Y20 A20 B20 (Lower stepper Vrefs while heating)

M6 T<EXT+n> (wait to reach temperature)

G130 X127 Y127 A127 B127 (Set Stepper motor Vref to defaults)

Change the select Gcode to (not EXT+n, but EXT+0)

M108 T<EXT+0> (toolchange)

M104  S<TEMP>  (enable to set active tool to main temp)

M6 T<EXT+0> (enable to wait for temp active tool reached)

and deselect from

(**** DeSelect Gcode extruder change***)

M104 S<TEMP><%> T<EXT+n> (set Temperature) (not makerbot style)

to

(**** DeSelect Gcode extruder change***)

M104  S<TEMP> (enable to set inactive tool to inactive temp)

Update: As said "n" instead of "0" is fine, KISSlicer puts in the extruder selected right after the start so I do not need the temperature in the startup, with my settings (except the <%> and vref…). With my settings you get:

(*** start.gcode for TOM, dual head****)

(*** be sure you run sailfish-firmware on the TOM ***)

M136 (enable build progress)

M73 P0 (start build progress)

M103 (disable RPM on extruder)

G21 (set units to mm)

G90 (set positioning to absolute)

M104 S55 T0  (set Right T0/A extruder temp enough to put fan on)

M104 S55 T1  (set Left T1/B extruder  temp enough to put fan on)

(**** begin homing ****)

G161 X Y F3000(home XY axis minimum)

G162 Z F2000(home Z axes maximum)

G92 X0 Y0 Z-5 A0 B0 (direct absolut: set Z to -5)

G1 Z0.0 F900(move Z to '0')

G162 Z F100(home Z axes maximum)

M132 X Y Z A B (Recall stored home offsets for XYZAB axis)

G1 X25 Y-60 Z10 F3300.0 (move to waiting position)

(**** end homing ****)

(*** start.gcode for TOM, dual head****)

(**** Select Gcode extruder change***)

M108 T1 (select extruder/tool)

M104 S240 T1 (set Temperature for extruder/tool)

M6 T1 (wait to reach temperature on extruder/tool)

And extruder change looks like this:

(**** DeSelect Gcode extruder change***)

M104 S190 T1 (set Temperature for tool)

(**** Select Gcode extruder change***)

M108 T0 (select extruder/tool)

M104 S230 T0 (set Temperature for extruder/tool)

M6 T0 (wait to reach temperature on extruder/tool)

So far RepG0040r24 took it and it was good! I guess n or 0 results in the same. The only debate we have now is regarding specifying the tool each time or not?

 

You don't have mapped the materials to the extruders on the Printer / Extruder materials tab (all now to EXT 1), but maybe you have done it by mapping it right clicking 

on the stl model.

Yes I tried out the new feature, works good! Saves some time I think (thanks Jonathan).

Last thing: the commands Fan on and Fan off are set to M126/M127 on the printer / firmware tab. I don't think this is used by TOM, but I can be wrong.

Haven´t checked that, but guess it was just ignored in the past… have to look into that: Yep you are right, this is the command for the additional fan that came with the replicator, so no use for all before. As you said this can even cause severe problems! I have to comment that out!

 

Future-request regarding "material"-tab: For me as a german the english explanation that come up when you hover with the mouse are sometimes hard to understand, would be great if they could be more precise and easier to understand.

 

And that's were you come in, as all that translations are made by Kisslicer users ;-) There is a German language file as far I know to import, but outdated with the newest version. It's a start though.

Import it under file / preferences: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/kisslicer-refugee-camp/eln88xbHzhs/tcXqq0vOhnkJ

It's attached as well to this post.

Some weeks will past since I have time for that. Priority is to make print dual, since makerware is working fine, but for TOM only single-headed. And I guess in future some people can benefit of a reliable TOM-profile.

 

Hope it helps.

Now going to watch the WK match Netherlands / Costa Rica. We are going to meet the Germans in a while I hope ;-)

Bart

thanks again for all your support! Good game-watch! I have to rely on the live-ticker.

 

Best, Lucas

[funBart]

Thank you!

BTW: the M6 command at toolchange (wait for temp) is not recommended without moving the head to higher or park position, as it now will melt your print while waiting to get on temperature.

Schöne Grüssen!

Bart

Yeah copied that in today to try it out. Maybe I take it out again. Makes most sense on startup.

 

You have:

(**** Select Gcode extruder change***)

M108 T<EXT+n> (select extruder)

M104 S<TEMP> T<EXT+n> (set Temperature)

G130 X20 Y20 A20 B20 (Lower stepper Vrefs while heating)

M6 T<EXT+n> (wait to reach temperature)

G130 X127 Y127 A127 B127 (Set Stepper motor Vref to defaults)

Change the select Gcode to (not EXT+n, but EXT+0)

M108 T<EXT+0> (toolchange)

M104  S<TEMP>  (enable to set active tool to main temp)

M6 T<EXT+0> (enable to wait for temp active tool reached)

and deselect from

(**** DeSelect Gcode extruder change***)

M104 S<TEMP><%> T<EXT+n> (set Temperature) (not makerbot style)

to

(**** DeSelect Gcode extruder change***)

M104  S<TEMP> (enable to set inactive tool to inactive temp)

You don't have mapped the materials to the extruders on the Printer / Extruder materials tab (all now to EXT 1), but maybe you have done it by mapping it right clicking 

on the stl model.

Yes I tried out the new feature, works good! Saves some time I think.

Last thing: the commands Fan on and Fan off are set to M126/M127 on the printer / firmware tab. I don't think this is used by TOM, but I can be wrong.

Haven´t checked that, but guess it was just ignored in the past… have to look into that.

 

Future-request regarding "material"-tab: For me as a german the english explanation that come up when you hover with the mouse are sometimes hard to understand, would be great if they could be more precise and easier to understand.

 

And that's were you come in, as all that translations are made by Kisslicer users ;-) There is a German language file as far I know to import, but outdated with the newest version. It's a start though.

Import it under file / preferences: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/kisslicer-refugee-camp/eln88xbHzhs/tcXqq0vOhnkJ

It's attached as well to this post.

Some weeks will past since I have time for that. Priority is to make print dual, since makerware is working fine, but for TOM only single-headed. And I guess in future some people can benefit of a reliable TOM-profile.

 

Hope it helps.

Now going to watch the WK match Netherlands / Costa Rica. We are going to meet the Germans in a while I hope ;-)

Bart

thanks again for all your support! Good game-watch!

 

Best, Lucas

[lucas...@hotmail.com]

Thanks for that hint,

will head-over to sailfish-forum to verify that!

Best,Lucas

[lucas...@hotmail.com]

On Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:53:12 PM UTC+2, funBart wrote:

Thank you!

BTW: the M6 command at toolchange (wait for temp) is not recommended without moving the head to higher or park position, as it now will melt your print while waiting to get on temperature.

Schöne Grüssen!

Bart

On Saturday, 5 July 2014 21:35:49 UTC+2, lucas...@hotmail.com wrote:

First, thanks again for your support! At least one MB-user trying to dig things out!

On Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:01:59 PM UTC+2, funBart wrote:

I don't know a lot of TOM, but some answers:

On Saturday, 5 July 2014 19:39:47 UTC+2, lucas...@hotmail.com wrote:

Hello,

this material settings are originally based on this post(actually the version from 2013, but that post I could´t find anymore):

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/kisslicer-refugee-camp/Qp4GkDmtJL4

Can anybody take a look and help me with the "ninja-flex" from "fenner-drive" there? Cannot get reliable prints for that. With makerware it all looks very good!

What settings have you set in Makerware: 1.75mm diameter? what packing density? 

Forgot that: 1.75mm. Packing density?

 

Apart from that I try to fix a problem where after extruder-change when printing dual-headed, the material is "spit-out" at the top (moves too much material back). Can this be changed with "prime", "suck" and "wipe" as far as I understand.

Wipe is only going back over the printed path without extruding, to 'wipe'.

Suck and prime do as expected:  you have set prime to 0.9 and suck to 0.2: maybe change to each 0.5mm first. Look in your Makerware profile what is set for Suck and prime and copy that values for this specific material..

Kisslicer calculates the amount of extrusion (E value) like this: path width (0.4) x layer thicknes (0.3) x path length. 

This E value (how many raw filament is transported) has to be set in the firmware: how many steps of the steppermotor are needed to transport 1mm filament. This is normally already set in the firmware, so you don't have to calculate that, unless you have changed your TOM. Each type Replicator has other values for that E steps/mm. Advised by Sailfish is to calibrate that value in your firmware settings. 

You have set your flow value to 2? Why? that's giving twice the volume normally needed. That shouldn't be necessary when using a measured diameter of the filament. (did you measure the Ninjaflex with calipers?). Normally the flow tweak has to be set to 1.

Under Printer / Extruder hardware you are using A and B values for extrusion. You can use that with GPX, because that's converting it correctly, but not when importing in ReplicatorG (sailfish edition). I recommend to set them both to "E"

Ah!

 

As said the tests I make with kisslicer (apart from maker ware, where everything is fine, BUT no second extruder for Thing-O-Matics!) are based on replicator profiles and I just got recently to know, that when MB changed from MK7 to MK8 the diameter of the metal-wheel on the extruder was changed to a smaller. So I have to set it to less I guess, but to me a Wipe of 4mm is really not so much, since the tube has at least 2-3cm on the Thing-O-Matic? How to calculate all that?

as said: wipe doesn't do anything with the extrusion, it's like wiping your feet on the already printed path: when triggered it's just going 4mm backwards.

Good to know. but since "suck" was even lower than 0.5, would´t that then result in less movement?

 

Drive-Gear Makerbots:

MK7:

• Dimension: 11mm (height) x 12mm (diameter)
• Effective diameter: 10.5mm
• MK8:
  
• Dimension: 11mm (height) x 9mm (diameter)
• Effective diameter: 7mm
• 
  

The future-request question that comes to my mind regarding materials:

Actually I would have to set the printing speed only for this material different then for all other materials (if you check the data-sheet of ninjaflex from fenner-drives), since this is in KISSlicer not material-specific, I would have to make two sets of profiles? But making print and travel speeds material-specific is as well a bit strange?

Not strange at all: ABS and PLA can be printed at high speed, but some other, like Nylon, requiring lower speeds. When printing dual it's making sense that each material is printed with the material belonging speed. 

 

You can do that by adjusting the max flow under that material. For example: a max flow of 3 mm3/s is resulting in a max speed of that material (for example with 0.3mm layer height and 0.4 path width): 3(flow)/(0.4x0.3)=max 25mm/s. Whatever you set on the speed tab.

That will make a huge change!

 

Your extruder change code is making no sense and will not result in a toolchange.

It results in a extruder-change and is fine! This is due to the fact that "old" g-code from MB was changed over 2011-to-2012 when they went closed. Since sailfish supports both g-code flavors at least the last 2 years this worked fine for me but maybe I was just a lucky? 0 makes more sense then n, but results in the same! Or what else do you mean? The <%> I just copied in today and already found out it doesn´t make sense, but the rest I guess is mb-style, as far as I know the tool -can- be always specified and makes thinks for me easier to understand when reading a g-code some while after slicing.

 

Beside that: I never saw Makerbot extruder change code with the lowering of the Vrefs. It's not necessary to my believe.

Yeah copied that in today to try it out. Maybe I take it out again. Makes most sense on startup, commented it out now.

 

You have:

(**** Select Gcode extruder change***)

M108 T<EXT+n> (select extruder)

M104 S<TEMP> T<EXT+n> (set Temperature)

G130 X20 Y20 A20 B20 (Lower stepper Vrefs while heating)

M6 T<EXT+n> (wait to reach temperature)

G130 X127 Y127 A127 B127 (Set Stepper motor Vref to defaults)

Change the select Gcode to (not EXT+n, but EXT+0)

M108 T<EXT+0> (toolchange)

M104  S<TEMP>  (enable to set active tool to main temp)

M6 T<EXT+0> (enable to wait for temp active tool reached)

and deselect from

(**** DeSelect Gcode extruder change***)

M104 S<TEMP><%> T<EXT+n> (set Temperature) (not makerbot style)

to

(**** DeSelect Gcode extruder change***)

M104  S<TEMP> (enable to set inactive tool to inactive temp)

Update: As said "n" instead of "0" is fine, KISSlicer puts in the extruder selected right after the start so I do not need the temperature in the startup, with my settings (except the <%> and vref with extruder change ), you get:

(*** start.gcode for TOM, dual head****)

(*** be sure you run sailfish-firmware on the TOM ***)

M136 (enable build progress)

M73 P0 (start build progress)

M103 (disable RPM on extruder)

G21 (set units to mm)

G90 (set positioning to absolute)

M104 S55 T0  (set Right T0/A extruder temp enough to put fan on)

M104 S55 T1  (set Left T1/B extruder  temp enough to put fan on)

(**** begin homing ****)

G161 X Y F3000(home XY axis minimum)

G162 Z F2000(home Z axes maximum)

G92 X0 Y0 Z-5 A0 B0 (direct absolut: set Z to -5)

G1 Z0.0 F900(move Z to '0')

G162 Z F100(home Z axes maximum)

M132 X Y Z A B (Recall stored home offsets for XYZAB axis)

G1 X25 Y-60 Z10 F3300.0 (move to waiting position)

(**** end homing ****)

(*** start.gcode for TOM, dual head****)

(**** Select Gcode extruder change***)

M108 T1 (select extruder/tool)

M104 S240 T1 (set Temperature for extruder/tool)

M6 T1 (wait to reach temperature on extruder/tool)

And extruder change looks like this:

(**** DeSelect Gcode extruder change***)

M104 S190 T1 (set Temperature for tool)

(**** Select Gcode extruder change***)

M108 T0 (select extruder/tool)

M104 S230 T0 (set Temperature for extruder/tool)

M6 T0 (wait to reach temperature on extruder/tool)

Verified with RepG0040r24 (just sliced there) that specifying the Toolhead with M104 or M6 seems to be allowed when my TOM-dual-profile is selected under machine? As said will post it on the sailfish-forum.

Can you check that specification with n instead of 0 -> should be fine as well with your settings (Jonathan knows best?), at least exports nice g-code with me as you see. Also only putting temp in the extruder select works fine! Idea of that is only the one picked gets heated.

 

So far RepG0040r24 took it and it was good! I guess n or 0 results in the same. The only debate we have now is regarding specifying the tool each time or not?

 

You don't have mapped the materials to the extruders on the Printer / Extruder materials tab (all now to EXT 1), but maybe you have done it by mapping it right clicking 

on the stl model.

Yes I tried out the new feature, works good! Saves some time I think (thanks Jonathan).

Last thing: the commands Fan on and Fan off are set to M126/M127 on the printer / firmware tab. I don't think this is used by TOM, but I can be wrong.

Haven´t checked that, but guess it was just ignored in the past… have to look into that:

 

 Yep you are right, this is the command for the additional fan that came with the replicator, so no use for all before. As you said this can even cause severe problems! I have to comment that out!

Watch out: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/wanhao-printer-3d/y3szna2R5Mk

THIS CAUSED THE UNWANTED STOPS!

My plan is to hook up a fan to one of the unused 12V rails of the power-supply for cooling, so the fan goes on if I turn on the bot. Not perfect but it works.

Future-request regarding "material"-tab: For me as a german the english explanation that come up when you hover with the mouse are sometimes hard to understand, would be great if they could be more precise and easier to understand.

 

And that's were you come in, as all that translations are made by Kisslicer users ;-) There is a German language file as far I know to import, but outdated with the newest version. It's a start though.

Import it under file / preferences: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/kisslicer-refugee-camp/eln88xbHzhs/tcXqq0vOhnkJ

It's attached as well to this post.

Some weeks will past since I have time for that. Priority is to make print dual, since makerware is working fine, but for TOM only single-headed. And I guess in future some people can benefit of a reliable TOM-profile.

 

Hope it helps.

Now going to watch the WK match Netherlands / Costa Rica. We are going to meet the Germans in a while I hope ;-)

Bart

thanks again for all your support! Good game-watch! I have to rely on the live-ticker.

 

Best, Lucas

Ironed out at least the most severe bugs and attached the latest version! Added M101/103 since RepG makes it as well for TOM-dual-profile. But as you said, in RepG under firmware I disabled it there then.

Good that this site is up: http://replicat.org/gcodes and mcodes

Material is still the same but will see next weeks. Would be great if somebody beside me can test run it.

[funBart]

Hoi Lucas,

You were absolutely right about that toolchange <EXT+n> is working! I always thought it has to be a number 0 or 1 depending what you wanted to do with it, as Kisslicer was providing the EXT number (so 0 for tool T0), and you were able to change this for specific firmware that needed T1 for the first tool (so you had to put "1" for n. But apparently , when leaving ""n" as is, it's setting it automatically to "0". Or I completely lost my understanding for it....

Beware! When using the M101/M103 commands in the Gcode: that can invoke retraction and prime with the Sailfish firmware when set at default values (I think they are both set at 16 steps).  Look at it at the printer preferences in RepG. It's certainly not recommended to do a retraction and prime in both the slicer as well the firmware!. So you better choose. I have chosen to do it with the slicer, as it gives more freedom to experiment.

So better turn it off in Kisslicer (no M101/3, as it doesn't do anything with the firmware), or set the retraction and prime in the firmware both to "0".

Bart

On Sunday, 6 July 2014 01:26:29 UTC+2, lucas...@hotmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:53:12 PM UTC+2, funBart wrote:

Yeah copied that in today to try it out. Maybe I take it out again. Makes most sense on startup, commented it out now.

 

You have:

(**** Select Gcode extruder change***)

M108 T<EXT+n> (select extruder)

M104 S<TEMP> T<EXT+n> (set Temperature)

G130 X20 Y20 A20 B20 (Lower stepper Vrefs while heating)

M6 T<EXT+n> (wait to reach temperature)

G130 X127 Y127 A127 B127 (Set Stepper motor Vref to defaults)

Change the select Gcode to (not EXT+n, but EXT+0)

M108 T<EXT+0> (toolchange)

M104  S<TEMP>  (enable to set active tool to main temp)

M6 T<EXT+0> (enable to wait for temp active tool reached)

and deselect from

(**** DeSelect Gcode extruder change***)

M104 S<TEMP><%> T<EXT+n> (set Temperature) (not makerbot style)

to

(**** DeSelect Gcode extruder change***)

M104  S<TEMP> (enable to set inactive tool to inactive temp)

Update: As said "n" instead of "0" is fine, KISSlicer puts in the extruder selected right after the start so I do not need the temperature in the startup, with my settings (except the <%> and vref…). With my settings you get:

(*** start.gcode for TOM, dual head****)

(*** be sure you run sailfish-firmware on the TOM ***)

M136 (enable build progress)

M73 P0 (start build progress)

M103 (disable RPM on extruder)

G21 (set units to mm)

G90 (set positioning to absolute)

M104 S55 T0  (set Right T0/A extruder temp enough to put fan on)

M104 S55 T1  (set Left T1/B extruder  temp enough to put fan on)

(**** begin homing ****)

G161 X Y F3000(home XY axis minimum)

G162 Z F2000(home Z axes maximum)

G92 X0 Y0 Z-5 A0 B0 (direct absolut: set Z to -5)

G1 Z0.0 F900(move Z to '0')

G162 Z F100(home Z axes maximum)

M132 X Y Z A B (Recall stored home offsets for XYZAB axis)

G1 X25 Y-60 Z10 F3300.0 (move to waiting position)

(**** end homing ****)

(*** start.gcode for TOM, dual head****)

(**** Select Gcode extruder change***)

M108 T1 (select extruder/tool)

M104 S240 T1 (set Temperature for extruder/tool)

M6 T1 (wait to reach temperature on extruder/tool)

And extruder change looks like this:

(**** DeSelect Gcode extruder change***)

M104 S190 T1 (set Temperature for tool)

(**** Select Gcode extruder change***)

M108 T0 (select extruder/tool)

M104 S230 T0 (set Temperature for extruder/tool)

M6 T0 (wait to reach temperature on extruder/tool)

Verified with RepG0040r24 (just sliced there) that specifying the Toolhead with M104 or M6 seems to be allowed when my TOM-dual-profile is selected under machine? As said will post it on the sailfish-forum.

Can you check that specification with n instead of 0 -> should be fine as well with your settings (Jonathan knows best?), at least exports nice g-code with me as you see. Also only putting temp in the extruder select works fine! Idea of that is only the one picked gets heated.

 

So far RepG0040r24 took it and it was good! I guess n or 0 results in the same. The only debate we have now is regarding specifying the tool each time or not?

 

You don't have mapped the materials to the extruders on the Printer / Extruder materials tab (all now to EXT 1), but maybe you have done it by mapping it right clicking 

on the stl model.

Yes I tried out the new feature, works good! Saves some time I think (thanks Jonathan).

Last thing: the commands Fan on and Fan off are set to M126/M127 on the printer / firmware tab. I don't think this is used by TOM, but I can be wrong.

Haven´t checked that, but guess it was just ignored in the past… have to look into that:

 

 Yep you are right, this is the command for the additional fan that came with the replicator, so no use for all before. As you said this can even cause severe problems! I have to comment that out!

Watch out: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/wanhao-printer-3d/y3szna2R5Mk

THIS CAUSED THE UNWANTED STOPS!

My plan is to hook up a fan to one of the unused 12V rails of the power-supply for cooling, so the fan goes on if I turn on the bot. Not perfect but it works.

Future-request regarding "material"-tab: For me as a german the english explanation that come up when you hover with the mouse are sometimes hard to understand, would be great if they could be more precise and easier to understand.

 

And that's were you come in, as all that translations are made by Kisslicer users ;-) There is a German language file as far I know to import, but outdated with the newest version. It's a start though.

Import it under file / preferences: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/kisslicer-refugee-camp/eln88xbHzhs/tcXqq0vOhnkJ

It's attached as well to this post.

Some weeks will past since I have time for that. Priority is to make print dual, since makerware is working fine, but for TOM only single-headed. And I guess in future some people can benefit of a reliable TOM-profile.

 

Hope it helps.

Now going to watch the WK match Netherlands / Costa Rica. We are going to meet the Germans in a while I hope ;-)

Bart

thanks again for all your support! Good game-watch! I have to rely on the live-ticker.

 

Best, Lucas

Ironed out at least the most severe bugs and attached the latest version! Added M101/103 since RepG makes it as well for TOM-dual-profile.

Good that this site is up: http://replicat.org/gcodes

[lucas...@hotmail.com]

Hello Bart,

thanks a lot for confirming "n" - Best would be Jonathan could jump in here and clarify the explanations in the software. I did it as well with try and error and so far it works great! I changed a lot based on your suggestion, but the biggest remaining flaw is the compensation of "tool"-wheel-diameter! Would be really great if across all printers same material files would work but only steps and wheel-diameter would be put somewhere (maybe pro-tab) but seems what you suggested is the first approach.

Will check the sailfish-firmware regarding M101/103! As said RepG exports it when g-coding, so just copied that, but I do not know if it is sensitive to the firmware settings set when slicing.

Printed today a big dual-part in 5h30min with the 0.2-style that with the old "speed"-settings would have taken 9 hours with sailfish4.5-accelerated. Great success and means I can make now huge prints in 1 day! With an optimized T-O-M works quite fine and hasn´t lost any steps so far. Tests with sailfish 4.6-accelerated looks good, but seems to feeds less material on main-extruder? Soon test with M101/M103 disabled.

Attached the latest profiles for further test. Maybe I have to post stuff in thingiverse soon to get people testing it and tweaking? Seems so far almost none T-O-M users are here.

SD-card works again without the Replicator-2nd-fan-M126/M127.

For extruder select I put a z+lift in there while heating - works! Thanks for that hint! Guess that would be a z-downlift for Replicator?

Vref lowering before heat and resetting when reached worked for the big print today without flaw.

Best, Lucas

[funBart]

Maybe you can benefit from the "Gain"setting on the Printer//Extruder Hardware tab, as that was originally intended to do such adjustments.

You are aware of the possibility to use a TOM with GPX as well? As that program (from wingcommander) is able to generate x3g files, which you can directly copy to your SD card, without the use of RepG.

I have attached the zipped directory to this post. I already changed the ini file for you, to t7d = TOM Mk7 - dual extruder.

Extract this file and copy it to your C drive, so it's resulting in a folder C:/GPX with contents.

In Kisslicer, under Printer//Firmware, you have to fill in the postproces field with:

C:\GPX/gpx -g -p  "<FILE>"

Of course you can put the GPX folder where you want (when having all rights to that directory), but you have to change the absolute path in the processes field than as well.

Bart

On Monday, 7 July 2014 20:45:46 UTC+2, lucas...@hotmail.com wrote:

Hello Bart,

thanks a lot for confirming "n" - Best would be Jonathan could jump in here and clarify the explanations in the software. I did it as well with try and error and so far it works great! I changed a lot based on your suggestion, but the biggest remaining flaw is the compensation of "tool"-wheel-diameter! Would be really great if across all printers same material files would work but only steps and wheel-diameter would be put somewhere (maybe pro-tab) but seems what you suggested is the first approach.

Will check the sailfish-firmware regarding M101/103! As said RepG exports it when g-coding, so just copied that, but I do not know if it is sensitive to the firmware settings set when slicing.

Printed today a big dual-part in 5h30min with the 0.2-style that with the old "speed"-settings would have taken 9 hours with sailfish4.5-accelerated. Great success and means I can make now huge prints in 1 day! With an optimized T-O-M works quite fine and hasn´t lost any steps so far. Tests with sailfish 4.6-accelerated looks good, but seems to feeds less material on main-extruder? Soon test with M101/M103 disabled.

Attached the latest profiles for further test. Maybe I have to post stuff in thingiverse soon to get people testing it and tweaking? Seems so far almost none T-O-M users are here.

SD-card works again without the Replicator-2nd-fan-M126/M127.

For extruder select I put a z+lift in there while heating - works! Thanks for that hint! Guess that would be a z-downlift for Replicator?

Vref lowering before heat and resetting when reached worked for the big print today without flaw.

Best, Lucas

On Sunday, July 6, 2014 9:24:06 PM UTC+2, funBart wrote:

[lucas...@hotmail.com]

Hey Bart,

thanks for that! Will only have time next weeks to try!

Found a very good site where you posted a lot of explanation, that is helpful for every Makerbot:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/kisslicer-refugee-camp/replicator$201$20duo/kisslicer-refugee-camp/Qp4GkDmtJL4/u-ji9moyhO8J

Will further enhance the TOM-profile. It is getting better now.

Lucas

 Yep you are right, this is the command for the 2nd additional fan on the side for cooling the nozzle and platform that came with the replicator, so no use for all before. As you said this can even cause severe problems! I have to comment that out!