Cura - Looking for Bits From Bytes users.

[Daid Braam]

Hi KISSlicer users,

Slightly bit of information. I'm the Cura developer. Currently the fastest slicing software out there (yes, it beats KISSlicer. But KISSlicer has a nice 2nd place).

Jonathon is still being AWOL, as far as I know, which is a huge shame. Because he really helped me along with Cura in the initial steps when I started to write my own slicing engine. And he is a great guy. Me, and Ultimaker would not be where we are now without him.

I know he started with KISSlicer to improve printing on his BFB machine. With great results. But now, with him behing AWOL, and all the other tools not supporting the BFB printers anymore. The BFB users are left without updates. Which is a shame.

So, I want to add BFB support to Cura. As a tribute to Jonathan and his awesome work. And to help out anyone who still has one of these machines.

Now, I know little about these machines. But I did add some initial code in my engine today towards supporting the BFB: https://github.com/Ultimaker/CuraEngine/commit/f94a77bf94f7be7f9f401fe379f2ecabe3fccf20

I do have some questions:

First, I'm looking for testers. I currently cannot guarantee that Cura generates perfect GCode for BFB machines. Extrusion is handled completely different. So anyone willing to test for me would be of great assistance.

Secondly, KISSlicer has this "mm/rev" setting which does not seem to do anything for 5D GCode, but does influence the BFB code. How important is this setting? Is it something that is set per machine or per machine type? (more specifically, is it something that you need to tweak per machine, or as soon as you know it for your model, you know it for all machines of the same model)

Finally, the communication with the machine, is that done trough USB? Or trough SD? Or does it depend on the machine?

Cheers, and keep on printing,

Daid

[Tomi Saloranta]

Hi

I would change to Cura right away if it could support mach3 or somebody with skills would write a postscript. Until then the kisslicer is the best thing.

[Daid Braam]

Just let me know what kind of GCode Mach3 needs, most likely it's something simple? Seeing that it's more a true CNC controller it most likely needs an A value instead of an E value. Anything else for fans?

[Nick Kloski]

Awesome offer, thanks!

I have two of the new Type A Machines Beta units, and there is a Cura version floating around in the private Beta forum there where people are looking at your program to replace KISSlicer if the developer does not come back.  I don't actually know the difference of BFB compared to other printers, but I assume that the TAM printers already are supported, and you are talking about another kind of printer that is of a different heritage than the TAM ones, right?

[Daid Braam]

Type A machines use Marlin, just like Ultimaker and most of the RepRap printers. And thus are supported out of the box. They use what is called "5D" GCode. Cura defaults to this and should be easy to get up and running. Pretty sure you can configure an Type A as a RepRap in Cura.

The BFB machines are different. KISSlicer has a special setting for it, and I think some settings are only for the BFB support. They talk a totally different dialect so to say.

[Peter Gregory]

I have a Cubex Trio and would be happy to test.

I'm currently using Kisslicer PRO + Cubit under a Windows VM on a Mac

Do you plan on having Mac support?

Would you support generating Cubex BRB files directly without Cubit?

[toranarod]

To answer your other question they all use a USB memory stick with the BFB file extensions. 

Can I obtain Cura  and get a look athe software?

[toranarod]

On Tuesday, 18 February 2014 06:32:33 UTC+11, toranarod wrote:

I will be a TESTER.

 

I own a Rep-MAN 3.2,  3D Touch and a CubeX I also have the time to do what ever you need. I also have an extensiveness  back ground in electronics  

digital systems and assembler and PIC processors.  

So count me in.

Cheers  

[toranarod]

I have Cura running. Nice program. 

 I have Arduino  running Marlin. I  been building my own printer. most of the time we use slic3r and  Repetier.

 Its funny I have never heard of this program until you mention it.

At this point I cannot use it to create any G code for my BFB machines.  Is that correct?  

   

Let us know where and when i can get some software Gcode on my BFB machines.

good luck with the developments hope it all comes together. cheers 

On Tuesday, 18 February 2014 03:17:07 UTC+11, Daid Braam wrote:

[Daid Braam]

Cura is available, for free, at http://software.ultimaker.com/ (Should also show up pretty high in google results on Cura as search term)

It runs on Windows XP or newer, MacOS 10.6 or newer and Linux (Tested on Ubuntu)

It's a 100% OpenSource project. Mostly done by me, running for about 2.5 years now last 1.5 year while Ultimaker is paying me. It has come a long way. Some people kinda frown on it because of the Ultimaker link. But I have guarantees from Ultimaker that Cura will support other printers. And will remain OpenSource. I actually talked to the one of the founder about supporting the BFB machines and they found it a good idea.

[Daid Braam]

BRB files are binary files, I do not have the time to figure out how to generate those from Cura.

Makerbot has the same problem. But someone made https://github.com/whpthomas/GPX which I hope to add to Cura soon to generate proper Makerbot X3G files.

I could not find "Cubit"? Maybe that's a tool that does the same as GPX?

[hugues]

Hello Daid,

Thanks for your work, this is Cubeit, the post-processor to use KS with cubex.

[toranarod]

Is there any  BFB support in Cura at the moment?  I am running Cura on a windows 8.1 core i7 runs fine.

[Daid Braam]

No license, no source. So no use for me. Sorry. (No license prevents any distribution, and inclusion with Cura. No source prevents MacOS and Linux versions)

Do you know who made it?

[Daid Braam]

No, there is no BFB support in Cura right now. Which is why I'm looking for BFB users. It will be a bit more tricky machine to support compared to the other machines that I support right now.

I have started some initial work on supporting the BFB.

[max72]

Hi Daid, welcome and thanks for the very kind offer.

BF printers can print either form USB stick or SD cards, depending on version.

The basic bfb files are plain Gcode, but there is a difference in the extruder handling.

You drive directly the extruder.

The extruder has a tilted screw that pushes the filament. So Jonathan started with a calculation of the amount of filament pushed per revolution considering the mm of filament extruded, and taking in account the fact that the screw is tilted.

During the time it became apparent that all the BFB printers had the same ratio, so Kisslicer computes internally everything when generating the gcode.

If you check the more recent version mm/rev is gone.

There is a tweak option in the material in case of small discrepancies in the extrusion flow form calculated and actual, but it is more material related than printer related.

I'm at your disposal for beta testing, time permitting... :-)

Massimo

[toranarod]

As I said I would Like to help beta Test. thanks a heap.  cheers

[Tomi Saloranta]

Ok

Mach3 is simple..I dont know others but I use temps and fans with external controlllers. So A is extruder 1 and B extruder 2. In kisslicer there is only a simple introduction.

G21

; absolute mode

G90

M3 /spindle on(heat power on)

;

; *** Main G-code ***

;

; BEGIN_LAYER_OBJECT z=0.20

;

; *** Warming Extruder 1 to 210 C ***

; Select extruder, warm, purge

; BfB-style

M104 S210

M542

M551 P32000 S900

M543

T0 /tool change

G54 normal work offset

G1 X-58.09 Y54 Z0.3 A0 F18000

G1 X-58.09 Y54 Z0.2 A0 F210

G1 A0.5 F900

...

G55 work offset for another heatend.(x-46mm)

In kisslicer there is not a place for second  head offset so that I had to do it with mach  work offset. 

If that is in cura there no need for that either.

[hugues]

Cubeit is made by Evanery, and i get it on the kisslicer forum. Maybe someone have more informations...

[Daid Braam]

Ok, easy as pie:

https://github.com/Ultimaker/CuraEngine/commit/445498eba1e808850677934de58b9d2041aa8337

It still uses M106 and M107 as fan control, no idea how that effects Mach3. The rest should be controllable with start/end code.

[Tomi Saloranta]

How can I test it? Could you compile 32/64bit windows version?

keskiviikko, 19. helmikuuta 2014 10.46.45 UTC+2 Daid Braam kirjoitti:

Ok, easy as pie:

https://github.com/Ultimaker/CuraEngine/commit/445498eba1e808850677934de58b9d2041aa8337

Daid

[Anar Spacymen]

Hi Daid,
this is a good news !
I own a BfB Rapman 3.2 since December 2010 and I'm still using it.
I have also worked on other BfB machines.
I also was a very early user of KS that I beta tested for Jonathan.
I would be glad to help you with that so don't hesitate to ask me what information you need.
I will also have all the time needed for testing.

Cheers !

[rogerjonssson]

Two years ago I tried to crack/understand the .bfb g-gode.

I wanted to do an obejct with one string thickness, but the slicers I tried could not slice it properly. I succeeded but have forgotten most about it, but I have one file with notes left and one file which is to great extent hand coded (since the slicers returned lousy result) of the one string thickness object (about 0.7mm thick) which prints ok. 

Files attached. Maybe they are useful...

[Daid Braam]

I will build a version with Mach3 and BFB support soon. I'm ironing out the last few bugs for a major release. After that I can put in some experimental stuff like this.

[y.ult...@gmail.com]

this is a wonderful idea !
Please Do not forget the Cubex printer :)

[char...@fablabbreda.nl]

Hi Daid and other forum members,

Several schools in my neighborhood own BfB machines, all 3D touch to be more specific. I have 5 of them available for testing :)

So please let me know what I can do for you! I can even let one being deliverd to your house ;) What about another 24hrs for playing with the machines?

The 3D touch machines can connect through usb cable and usb stick, not sd cards accepted.

The extension is indeed .bfb, but that is just plain gcode.

The software deliverd with the printer is Axon2. Let me know if you want a copy of that.

I have enclosed a .bfb file for your information.

Please let me know if there's anything I can do, since I am sooooooo happy to hear that you want to make Cura slice for BfB!

Charlotte

Enclosed code is for a square with 1 mm height, sliced with layer thickness of 0.5 mm.

[Daid Braam]

Hey Charlotte,

I would love to have access to a BFB for some time. How long can you miss one? For a day? For a week?

I do not know how your time is available. We also have hobby-night here every week at Ultimaker. You could visit that with a BFB machine?

I also haven't talked to you in quite a while. So would be good to see you anyhow!

For progress, I think I have a large bit of the BFB code working. But retraction is "automated by firmware", which kinda worries me, might cause some problems. I hope to figure out some way of "manual retraction", as retraction in Cura is quite advanced and I cannot use all those features now...

[char...@fablabbreda.nl]

Hi Daid,

When is your hobbynight? I might drop in and take a BfB with me. At FabLab Breda we have CreativeCoffee every friday afternoon, welcome to take a journey to the south. Watch out, this week is carnaval ;) (And yes, we serve other drinks)

Charlotte

[Laurence Pearl]

Can't help with the mm/rev setting - but I'd be very interested in trying out your Cure on my Cubex Trio - excellent hardware but the Cubex software is a basket case.

Kisslicer works really well on the Cubex machine, which remembers it was once a BfB device, but doesn't support multi-colour builds, which is a little frustrating as my machine has three extruders.

Laurence

[Markku Lehtola]

Hi,

I have a 2yo double headed BFB 3DTouch with usb stick...let me know if I can help...

br

Markku

[3D_er]

thanks for posting this mach3 info !!!!

[giovanni...@gmail.com]

Hi, 

there is a problem with the Cubex when we try to print thin layers, but this problem could be solved by the slicer.

The Cubex has an accuracy of 0.1 on the extrusion speed.

When the BFB file gives :

M108 or M208 or M308 with the parameter of extrusion speed S, the Cubex divided by 10 the parameter S then cuts after the first decimal and takes that number for the speed of the extruder.

Example :

M108 S14.8

gives on Cubex a speed of 1.4 RPM for extruder #1

M108 S14.1

gives on Cubex the same speed 1.4 RPM for extruder #1

When we try to print thin layers like 0.05 the extruder speed becomes very low, it's usual to see values like S2.5 , S3.8 ...

And here we have the problem, parameters like S2 and S2.95 will give the same speed on Cubex extruder 0.2RPM but S3 will give 0.3RPM that's 50% more!!!

The X/Y axis have more accuracy and they speed will follow the values given by the BFB file.

The result is that we have enormous differences on the width extrusion, to avoid that I think the slicer must at first calculate an X/Y "theoretical" speed, then calculate the "theoretical" extruder speed, then calculate the "real" extruder speed that will be applied by the Cubex and finally from that value calculate the "real" X/Y speed to be used to have a constant extrusion width.

  

[Daid Braam]

Note, I'm still planning to do this. But as some might have noticed I haven't respond in a while. I had a few Cura bugs which really required all my attention. I managed to fix them and I'm very close to a public release. Directly after that release I can merge in the experimental changes for the BFB printer and provide people with an test version.

Note that I'm trying single extrusion first. Dual (or more) extrusion is always extra complex (which also does not work for Makerbot Replicator 2X yet)

Edward who made CubeIT contact me. So I can most likely support the CubeX as well. (We have a normal Cube at the office, horrible machine, but I haven't looked at it yet to see if it supports the same files)

On Monday, February 17, 2014 5:17:07 PM UTC+1, Daid Braam wrote:

[giovanni...@gmail.com]

I don't know, without looking into the whole file I cant try to understand, but Kisslicer works with M108/208/308 and we have to work with that.

Le jeudi 13 mars 2014 17:42:17 UTC+1, Ron Konkoma a écrit :

How do you explain, that when I am printing to extruder #2, my native CubeX print file only shows an M108 and NOT an M208 code?

[Steven]

Giovanni,

I think this post would fit better in one of the other threads.  This thread is for getting Cura to work with BFB printers.  You are highlighting an issue that is independent of the slicer and related to cubex firmware.

[toranarod]

Great t to see you again. Was hoping you hadn't given up on the idea as just not worth it. 

I am working on the CubeX at the moment from the other end. looking at its electronics. I have a few modification that will free up some of the malfunctioning issues.  I may manufacture  a new controller using there firmware. I have my cube X running on the older firm ware system from the 3D touch.

This where it is very interesting the CubeX firmware has nothing in it that improves printing just control over cartridge systems.  

If some of my own code can over ride there filament lock downs.   We can remove the proprietary cartridge system from the other end I think.  I need for your Cura to work so am watching with extreme interest. No good doing this if there is no G code writer to go on with.

[toranarod]

Good question. You Make a very good point.  I agree don't fix what isn't broken.

I guess my reasons are more personal than logistic. I just like this stuff.  that the main reason.  

 

Other Ideas about I have about my project. Why do this are. I am not changing the firmware or the controller I am just reverse engineering it. to find out what makes this thing tick.

There seems to be a lot of them going back to the dealer for repairs. another alternative would be nice. I am going to manufacture there controller as an alternative.

At some point very soon 3D system will release version 1.08 that will most likely make all the current hakes obsolete.       

  

But My main reason is to have fun. its a great time in the computer and electronics industry lost of new technology frontiers  to explore. That why most of us purchase  a 3D printer in the first place. It was just a must have? 

Lets face it they are only toys to play with no other reason why do you think I have 4 of them. 

cheers    

On Saturday, 15 March 2014 02:55:25 UTC+11, Ron Konkoma wrote:

You don't need special special firmware to eliminate the proprietary cartridge requirement.  You just send a text based BFB GCode file to the printer with a simple "^Firmware" header line...  We can use the CubeX just fine with generic (BFB) slicers with very little modification of the output.  What are you hoping to gain by changing the controller and firmware?

[toranarod]

I have success.  I could now supply an after market Controller for the CubeX.

 

 Using there software in a reengineered controller using the same PIC processor. The PIC32mx440 and  running the standard BFB file KISSlicer was written for I could make a after Market controller with there software that would be a straight swap over.

 

You would plug in and work just as it did before same display use files BFB extensions with no need for aftermarket filaments and all other locks gone. 

It will be cheap and under warranty it would also not fail by using different peripherals circuits. The key is another microcontroller piggy backing the other system processing other electrical signals and replacing them making it compatible.

I have added a separate Lcd display  and key pad to this little chip

so the user can if they want to make alteration on the fly.  

 

I will continue for now refining the software and testing the system.

 

On my prototype is all birds nest wired and Vero board. 

I already have some very nice prints. 

[Peter Gregory]

Hi Daid,

Can you give us a status update on Cura's BFB support?
Is the latest version in the GIT repository ready for testing?
Do you have a link to compiled versions somewhere?
Any questions / support needed?

[Matt Kusak]

Another willing tester here - Cubex (BFB) machine at workplace  - your development efforts to support the BFB machines are greatly apprecieated! 

Nothing but problems with the filament chip readers - the Cubex community will be very fortunate to have this option to work around the problem. Very excited to try this option.

Thanks for your efforts

[Litosaragon]

Hi Daid,

I'm a dual head BFB3000 owner.

Please contact me if you want to test something.

Litosaragon

[Daid Braam]

I've just build a test version. This version is untested. 

So:

BIG FAT RED WARNING

I have not tested this build in any way, other then comparing the code to what KISSlicer generates, and it kinda seems the same.

The code could also just decide to blow up your machine. So you are warned.

I'm expecting issues with retraction. Lots of moves in Cura are small moves without retraction. However, the auto-retract by the firmware might retract. With 5D GCode I have pretty fine control on the retraction. With the BFB I do not have this control, so not everything might behave as expected.

Now, on how to use it. First, make a new RepRap machine from the initial startup wizard. Then, goto "Machine -> Machine settings". There you can select a GCode flavor. Select BFB.

Next, the start&end code. I have no idea what it should be. But I'm sure you guys will. KISSlicer config should help you here.

(Once this all works, I can add default profiles with start&end codes for the different machines)

It should generate GCode with RPM values, and start/stop extruder commands. And the magic retraction configuration command.

Get it at:

http://software.ultimaker.com/Cura_closed_beta/

And let me know if it destroyed your machine... (seriously, I really have no idea how/if this will work)

[toranarod]

Here i we go thanks You.  I don't care if it blows up my machine this is very important to Us Cube and BFB owners. And it will give me something to do making repairs.LoL

[Steven]

Thanks. I'll start testing tonight!

[JohnD]

Daid - awesome work - I don't have a BFB, but I do love KISS.  I was wondering if you had given any thought to incorporating Marlin firmware retraction into Cura?  I would think it would be a sorta easy given what you've just done?

[toranarod]

I have looked and installed and uninsulated but cannot find BFB in Gcode flavour.   where can i look Now.   

On Wednesday, 26 March 2014 01:47:16 UTC+11, Daid Braam wrote:

[Peter Gregory]

I just installed the MAC version.

If the windows version is similar, the BFB option is located using the menu:

File | Machine Settings.

I created a machine profile called BFB

The BFB option is set under GCode flavor.

I like the initial look / feel of Cura.

It is very intuitive for working with models.

I save all my STL models in inches, so after opening them I have to scale them by 25.4 to get them in mm.

After generating GCode and comparing with KISSlicer, it looks like I guessed my settings all wrong.

The speed / position / flow values are very large compared to what KISSlicer generates.

Do you control the flow with E-Steps per 1mm filament?

Do you control the starting offsets with Head size towards X min?

The first line of GCode MUST be the ^Firmware:V1.07, is there a place to set that?  I tried start/end GCode, but it is not the very first thing.

The extension must be bfb for the Cubex printer to detect it (minor issue)

Cubex is very sensitive to the order of  M227, M228, M55?

The Cubex file may require CR+LF for line termination, but I'm not 100% sure on that one.

KissSlicer + CubeItMod startup GCode:

^Firmware:V1.07

G21

G90

M107

M542

M104 S190

M227 S118 P296

M228 S44 P44

M551 P1500 S80

M543

M108 S10

M103

G1 X-17.24 Y-12 Z0.45 F12000

G1 X-17.24 Y-12 Z0.2 F210

M101

G1 X-17.33 Y-10.84 Z0.2 F873.6

G1 X-17.59 Y-9.71 Z0.2 F873.6

G1 X-18.01 Y-8.63 Z0.2 F873.6

G1 X-18.59 Y-7.63 Z0.2 F873.6

Cura starting GCode:

M109 T0 S180.000000

T0

^Firmware:V1.07

G21

G90

;enable auto-retraction

M227 S11520 P11520

;Layer count: 51

;LAYER:0

M107

G1 X126.22 Y108.18 Z0.10 F12000.0

G1 X126.22 Y108.18 Z0.10 F12000.0

;TYPE:SKIRT

M108 S62.4

M101

G1 X148.78 Y108.18 Z0.10 F1199.3

G1 X148.78 Y156.82 Z0.10 F1199.3

G1 X126.22 Y156.82 Z0.10 F1199.3

G1 X126.22 Y108.18 Z0.10 F1199.3

M103

G1 X126.72 Y108.68 Z0.10 F12000.0

M101

G1 X148.28 Y108.68 Z0.10 F1199.3

[toranarod]

Thank you for your help But in my windows version there is no such settings. very sad :-(

[Steven]

So far so good...

Installed the windows version on my win7 machine.  Runs fine.  Bfb gcode flavor works.  Created a Cubex profile.

The output looks promising.  There are a couple of problems, most of which I can fix with a post processor.

I plan to run a test program this afternoon ON THE MACHINE and will let you know how it goes.

I will report back after that.

Thanks for this!

Steven

[Peter Gregory]

Steven,

If you get the numbers to look right in the GCode, please post your settings for others to use.
Also, you might want to post where the options are in the windows version for the BFB flavor setting.

Thanks!

Peter

[Steven]

KABOOM!!!

Just kidding.  I ran a couple of test cubes on my Cubex without incident.  Attached are my ini files.

Preferences.ini contains the machine description and gcode flavor.  This goes in the Cura installation directory.  

On my PC that is  c:\Cura_14.03-TEST1\Cura

Steven_Cubex.ini contains the setup profile for the part.  This includes filliment diameter, speeds, etc.

To get to the gcode flavor setting.  Click File -> Machine Settings, a new window will pop up.  Near the bottom left of the window (just above the OK button) is a dropdown button that says Gcode.  Click that and select BFB.

Notes:

The rpm is off exactly a factor of 10.  The output might read M108 S413 when it should be M108 S41.3  To work around this I divided the flow rate by 10.  Cura gave a warning that this was too small but it worked.

The Cubex likes to have the first layer at Z0.5mm.  Set the initial layer thickness to 0.5.  Cura gave a warning that this was too large but it worked.

Still working on the start.gcode and end.gcode.  Cura is adding some stray lines at the beginning and the end that the Cubex will not accept.  The work around is to cut and paste a new beginning and end.

Open the .gcode file in notepad or the text editor of your choice.

    At the beginning of the file find the line that says "Layer Count".  Delete everything above that line.  Now paste the following in its place.

^Firmware:V1.07
^Checksum: NO
G21
G90
# Select Extruder 1
M104 S210
M542
M551 P2000 S100
M543
M227 P163 S230
M228 P0 S163

Find the end of the file.  Find the line that says "M304 S0".  Delete everything after that line.

Save and close the .gcode file.

Rename to .bfb

Run with care!

More Notes:

I could not find a separate setting for Z axis speed in Cura.  I experimented with manually changing the speed in the gcode.  Still working on it.  May not be necessary.

Hope this helps.

Steven

 

 

[toranarod]

Thanks Is working I had a problem with with windows 8.1 and the original Cura installation. windows 8.1 wouldn't run Cura test1.  Not really sure why Just deleted and removed all off the Cura previous installs and stated again. Then it worked. 

thanks.  

[toranarod]

Been playing with cura all day. 

My question is? are you going to make it so it can support the needs of the KISSlicer users? I need to write BFB code for the 3D touch and the RepMan as well as the CubeX.

I have been working on the Gcode created by Cura for the 3d touch machine.  it been interesting lets say.   

so far no joy with a print.

[Steven]

Daid,

I found 2 more issues using Cura for a Cubex (these will apply to all bfb machines).

Cura needs to output M104 Sxxx to set the temperature.  M104 S210 sets nozzle 1 to 210C.  M204 sets nozzle 2 and M304 sets nozzle 3.

Cura only outputs M101 to start the paths even if using a raft assigned to second nozzle.  M101 to start a path for nozzle 1, M201 nozzle 2, M301 nozzle 3.

Does Cura support assigning 1 part to nozzle 1 and another part to nozzle 2?

Thanks for the efforts.

Steven

[Daid Braam]

Ok, that is awesome news! So it can work (still needs tweaks, but the basics are sort of working)

The RPM x10 is a mistake by me. Just checked the code and there is an stupid x10 in there which shouldn't have been.

I did not know about anything needed for multiple extruders. Figured I concentrate on single extrusion first.

Which is why there are only M101 in there. I guess the M203 then stops the 2nd extruder?

(Makerbot style also does not work with dual extrusion yet, but people with a 2X and not being frustrated by it already are difficult to find)
Most likely the extruder-swap code will be wrong, but might just be ignored by the firmware.
Cura can load 2 STL files and "dual-extrusion merge", if you have 2 extruders in the machine configuration, this gives a dual-color print. (Merge another for 3 colors, but this is quite untested)

Or you can load a multi-color AMF file. However, I think only 1 exists, that I created. (It can save the merged STLs as AMF for easier dual-material printing)

The problems with the temperature and ^firmware line can be fixed in the start code. But you'll need to know a trick. In the start code, add:

^Firmware:V1.07

^Checksum: NO

M190 S{print_bed_temperature}

M109 S{print_temperature}

If Cura sees the {print_temperature} or {print_bed_temperature} in the start code it will not add the automated M109/M190 at the start.

As you have a 2nd start code for the dual extrusion, you can add:

^Firmware:V1.07

^Checksum: NO

M190 S{print_bed_temperature}

M104 S{print_temperature}

M209 S{print_temperature2}

M109 S{print_temperature}

In there to fix this up for dual-extrusion.

I've fixed up the RPM, the Mx01/Mx03 commands and the file extension. I've made it possible to remove the large ;CURA_PROFILE_STRING at the end of the gcode (which is used to store all the settings, so you can reload all settings used from the GCode file). Which could also be a source for problems.

I've added a default profile for the BFB based on the above settings and ideas. So everyone gets a better start-point in experimenting with it.

Cura currently assumes that the firmware will limit the Z axis speed, which is why there is no different setting for it. If this ain't the case for the BFB firmware, then we'll have to do some magic.

As for CubeIT, it's great for experimenting right now. But eventually I just want to integrate that into Cura. Shouldn't be too hard, as it just modifies some lines.

I've uploaded a test2 (windows only atm) which fixes the above issues: http://software.ultimaker.com/Cura_closed_beta/

[toranarod]

At the end of the day are you going to make the cura compatible with the older BFB machines. I have re engineered the EMBEDDED controller for the cubex it will not need all the

filament hacking code.   it just needs to do what Jonathan original wrote KISSlicer for.  cura needs to replace KISSslice as it was. MY older BFB machine will not except a

cubex file with out me rewriting it back the way it was before the cubit modified it. There are still many BFB user out there. 

Do I need to write My own version Of cubit to put things back the way it was.    

[Steven]

Toranarod,

What filament hacking code?  For the Cubex, material statements were added by Cubify to require the use of cartridges.  We simply leave them out.  A cubex will run (quite well) with unmodified output straight from Kisslicer.  Cubit moves the M227 and adds M228 to tweak the output.

You seem to be complaining that Daid has not provided the output that you want.  Given that Daid has done all of the work free of charge and you have not documented what output you need, I really feel that your complaint is out of line.  I for one am more that happy to write (and share) a post processor.  At the end of the day if the Cura output is not to your liking, I will write a post for you.

Unless I am mistaken the "basic" bfb gcode is the same for all of the bfb machines.  The differences are in the header, tool change, rpm, and maybe footer.  In other words if someone gave me a working program for a 3d Touch, All I have to do is change the header of the program, maybe the tool change lines, and maybe the footer.  The rpm is the only sticking point.  Even that is easy to correct.

I realized too late that my first post was poorly worded regarding the rpm output.  I am planning to address that in another post later this afternoon after I do some testing with the new revision.

I guess my other point is "be patient".  Daid is only on rev 2.  

[Steven]

Daid,

I tried out the new version.  I also did some more testing on the old version.  

First.  I kind of screwed up on my feedback regarding rpm.  Each model of printer will have a different rpm because each model has a different extruder design.  The question becomes "how many millimeters of material (in linear length) comes out of the extruder with 1 revolution"?  The Cubex (which I have) will extrude about 44.4 millimeters per revolution.  The 3d Touch extrudes about 1.06 (big difference).  I don't know what the rapman is.  So I should not have said that your rpm calculation was off by 10x.  It is only off by 10x for the Cubex.  3d Touch, rapman, etc will be different.

Kisslicer deals with this with a number called "gain" in the >printer >extruders tab.  For a Cubex the number is 0.0225 which is 1/44.4.  At some point you will have to add a parameter to your machine settings menu to address this.  

I tried to figure out why the Cubex would not accept the remark at the end of the file.  Sometimes it would work, sometimes it would not.  I could not figure out why.

Regarding number of extruders.  You are absolutely correct.  Lets stick with 1 extruder for now.  For reference, M101=start nozzel 1, M201=start nozzle 2, M301=start nozzle 3.   M103=stop all nozzles.

I tried the new version.  Looks good.  The leading lines were gone and the end remark were gone.  The default bfb profile loaded and worked correctly.

I tried a test program on the new version and only had to delete 1 line before running the program.  Very cool.

Cura handles "fill" very differently than Kisslicer.  Kisslicer creates a fill region as one continuous path.  In other words, the head goes to the corner of a square and starts extruding.  The head then begins a diagonal zig-zag until it completes the fill region then stops extruding.  The head keeps extruding during each step over and direction change.  The entire fill region will only have one retract.  Cura stops extruding and retracts at the end of each line, steps over, then starts again on the next line.  Is this how Cura normally works?  It creates a lot more retracts than Kisslicer users are used too.  Not a criticism, just clarification.

I tried running an actual part (not just a test cube) and left the machine unattended while it was running!  Worked fine.

One of the many quirks of the Cubex is that its origin is not exactly centered on the table.  Is it possible to put a center offset in Cura?  I looked but could not find a parameter for that.  Just wondering if I missed it.

Thanks again!

[toranarod]

I really didn't mean to offend  I totally apologies for coming across as I did.

I didn't expect such a response.

I am more than happy to do my share .  

There were so many people willing to step in, maybe to many.

thanks for you input.

cheers 

[Daid Braam]

Ok, earlier reports said that the RPM values for all machines where the same, guess they are not. 44 vs 1 is big difference, especially with the RPM values being limited in resolution...

As for the infill, that's how Cura normally does infill. However, it does not always retract, it actually only retracts when it needs to move the head outside of the model boundary. But, because the firmware in the BFB does automated retraction is it now always retracting. That's something I would like more control on.

An bed origin currently cannot be configured other then 0,0,0 is center, or the front left corner. I'll keep this in mind.

[Steven]

Toranarod,

Do the rapman, bfb-3000, and 3d touch use the same extruder?  Same mm/rev?

Also, if you calculated that you needed 2.47 rpm for a path, you would actually put M108 S24.7 in the program.  Calculated rpm * 10.  Am I saying that correctly?

Last question.  On the above machines, if you want to disable destring, do you just leave out the M227 from the program?  Or do you set M227 S0 P0?

Thanks

Steven

[Steven]

Daid,

Let's see what toranarod says about the other bfb machines.  The cubex is kind of an "odd duck" compared to the other bfb machines.  It might be simpler to optimize Cura for the other machines then correct for the Cubex with a plugin.  I noticed that there is already a plugin to offset X and Y.  Maybe we could add a few lines to take the stated rpm and divide it by some number to calculate a new rpm.

Steven

[toranarod]

Yes. They do have the same drive system. 

I have used the extruder system from the Rapman to keep my 3d touch going . 

The electronics is all the same, files run in both printers but I have never cross referenced the steeper frequencies 

 there maybe a slight difference in the gear ratio as the steppers do not direct drive the extruder 

filament drive screw they have a gear ratio.

Now with the news of Jonathans commitment to still supporting KISSlicer even if its only part time or when he can fit it in. 

Will Cura go ahead with adding BFB to its system.   

About the RPM.    

I wrote a program for a small Microprocessor that sites between the main board and the extruder 

driver that modified the RPM to the extruder externally so the BFB files 

could run without even knowing it was on a direct drive stepper motor. like the CubeX  The software just thought it was in the 3D touch.

Put simply it performs a presale function using the CTC. I can add and subtract ratios as the machine is printing. 

The perfect ratio was achieved with a 10 : 1 from my program and the KISSlicer 

gain set at 0.12. this combination achieved a perfect match for the 3d touch software to drive the CubeX. 

The CubeX was printing perfectly running the 3d touch controller. 

With the news of Jonathan there will be room for an after market controller clone. 

 

Cannot just change the gain in the slicer to get compatibility RPM That did not work for the extruder. because the firmware does the purging.  

I got some more information just want to get some screen shot of my computer CRO.

[Steven]

Ok. You're saying that the older 3 machines have the same mm/rev and there is exactly a 10:1 ratio between the three older machines and the cubex.
Daid had it right the first time. It sounds like the easiest thing to do is setup a post for the cubex.

Thanks Toranarod. Sounds like you have done some interesting work. Unfortunately I have zero EE skills. Only software and mechanical.

I will see if I can test multiple tools sometime this week.

Steven

[Daid Braam]

As I understood, the CubeX requires a few other changes as well. I can easy do this in the engine as well. I intentionally kept the export a bit modular.

But, are the RPM values of TEST1 or TEST2 right now for the RepMan/BFB Touch/BFB 3000?

[Matt Hoover]

Daid,

First of all thank you so much for helping out the bfb touch people!!! I downloaded and tested the 14.03 Test 2 Cura edition and the only issue so far is that the Stepper rev / g^3 filament seems off.  I guess thats what you guys are waiting on.  When I ran my test program the movements of the machine seemed great, but the amount of filament being extruded was too small.  I can take a pic if it helps, maybe a solution is already be worked on.

I am so excited about having a second option for my machine and the possiblity of printing in two colors!  Keep up the excellent work!

Thanks
Matt

[Steven]

Matt,

Were you able to adjust the Fillament Flow % to correct?  What value did you end up with?

Steven

[Matt Hoover]

Hello Steven,

I didnt try that, is that the solotion or is Daid working on the code to fix?  Maybe temp work around?  Have you messed with that %?

Matt

[Steven]

In the short term it gives you a work around so you can continue other testing.  I think it will help Daid if you can say that the rpm's are "this" far off.  I'm sure that you already did it, but just to cover bases, did you check that the fillament diameter was correct?

[Matt Hoover]

Filament dia is right at 3mm, Ill give 150% a shot and report back later tonight.  Thanks

[toranarod]

Just running some files through my 3D touch.  Created a 10mm square box with .5 mm wall one only  0.6 mm think one with Cura and the other with KISSlicer.   

There is just not enough information in the Cura file to even really start the object. Still getting my learning curve around where what is what in Cura so i maybe not setting the build incorrect. best to my knowledge set Cura same as KISS with in reason.  But best to ask. 

The Cura file

 ^Firmware:V1.07

^Checksum: NO

G21

G90

# Select Extruder 1

M104 S238

M542

M551 P2000 S100

M543

M227 P163 S230

M228 P0 S163

;enable auto-retraction

M227 S128 P128

;Layer count: 1

;LAYER:0

M107

G1 X0.00 Y0.00 Z5.60 F3000.0

;End GCode

M103

M104 S0

M204 S0

M304 S0

The KISSlicer File

M304 S222

M542

M553 P32000 S900

M543

; 5D-style

T2

M109 S222

;

; enable auto-destring

M227 S23704 P2963

;

; *** Slowing to match Min Layer Time (speed multiplier is 0.114059) ***

; extruder deciRPM

M308 S33.1

;

; 'Crown', 3.3 [RPM], 2.0 [head mm/s]

G1 X7.73 Y5.27 Z0.95 F10200

G1 X7.73 Y5.27 Z0.7 F600

; extruder on

M301

G1 X7.75 Y7.52 Z0.7 F118.2

G1 X7.73 Y14.73 Z0.7 F118.2

; extruder(s) off

M103

;

; 'Wipe (and De-string)', 0.0 [RPM], 3.2 [head mm/s]

G1 X7.74 Y12.73 Z0.7 F191.6

G1 X7.74 Y12.73 Z0.95 F600

; extruder deciRPM

M308 S33.1

;

; 'Crown', 3.3 [RPM], 2.0 [head mm/s]

G1 X-1.73 Y14.73 Z0.95 F10200

G1 X-1.73 Y14.73 Z0.7 F600

; extruder on

M301

G1 X-1.75 Y5.98 Z0.7 F118.2

G1 X-1.73 Y5.27 Z0.7 F118.2

; extruder(s) off

M103

;

; 'Wipe (and De-string)', 0.0 [RPM], 3.2 [head mm/s]

G1 X-1.75 Y5.98 Z0.7 F191.6

G1 X-1.74 Y7.27 Z0.7 F191.6

G1 X-1.74 Y7.27 Z1.2 F600

; END_LAYER_OBJECT z=0.70

; BEGIN_LAYER_OBJECT z=0.95

;

; *** Warming Extruder 3 to 214 C ***

; Select extruder, warm, purge

; BfB-style

M304 S214

M542

M553 P32000 S900

M543

; 5D-style

T2

M109 S214

;

; enable auto-destring

M227 S23704 P2963

;

; *** Slowing to match Min Layer Time (speed multiplier is 0.114059) ***

; extruder deciRPM

M308 S16.5

;

; 'Crown', 1.7 [RPM], 2.0 [head mm/s]

G1 X7.73 Y5.27 Z1.2 F10200

G1 X7.73 Y5.27 Z0.95 F600

; extruder on

M301

G1 X7.75 Y7.52 Z0.95 F118.2

G1 X7.73 Y14.73 Z0.95 F118.2

; extruder(s) off

M103

;

; 'Wipe (and De-string)', 0.0 [RPM], 3.2 [head mm/s]

G1 X7.74 Y12.73 Z0.95 F191.6

G1 X7.74 Y12.73 Z1.2 F600

; extruder deciRPM

M308 S16.5

;

; 'Crown', 1.7 [RPM], 2.0 [head mm/s]

G1 X-1.73 Y14.73 Z1.2 F10200

G1 X-1.73 Y14.73 Z0.95 F600

; extruder on

M301

G1 X-1.75 Y5.98 Z0.95 F118.2

G1 X-1.73 Y5.27 Z0.95 F118.2

; extruder(s) off

M103

;

; 'Wipe (and De-string)', 0.0 [RPM], 3.2 [head mm/s]

G1 X-1.75 Y5.98 Z0.95 F191.6

G1 X-1.74 Y7.27 Z0.95 F191.6

G1 X-1.74 Y7.27 Z1.7 F600

; END_LAYER_OBJECT z=0.95

;

; *** Cooling Extruder 3 to 0 C ***

; Guaranteed same extruder, cooling down

; BfB-style

M304 S0

; 5D-style

M104 S0

;

; *** G-code Postfix ***

[toranarod]

Here is the STL if anybody is interested 

[Matt Hoover]

Okay... so 150% didnt do anything.  I was poking around in the machine settings however and noticed a thing called E-steps per 1mm of filament.  It says if you leave it at 0 it defaults to the firmware.  Maybe this is the number I need to tweak??  Hopefully Daid will have some insight in the AM.  Good night! :)

[Steven]

Matt,

Kisslicer uses 2963 for steps per 1mm of filament.

Toranarod,

In the start/End-Gcode tab you can customize the beginning and end of the program.  I created file called toranarod.ini for you to try.  Click File -> Open Profile then navigate to where you saved toranarod.ini.  I have not figured out how to enter a different prime and suck into Cura.  For now I am putting the M227 command in the Start/End-Gcode tab and manually deleting the one that Cura generates.  Your Kisslicer output indicated that you are using nozzle 3.  Can you use nozzle 1 for this phase of the testing?  Right now I think the biggest thing that we can do for Daid is help him get the rpm and basic gcode right.  Then add multiple nozzles later.  I also added a new preferences.ini that hopefully matches the 3D Touch.  Copy this file to your cura installation directory\cura.

Try the above and see if that helps you get started.

Steven

 

 

[Steven]

Matt,

I just tried an experiment where I set up Kisslicer for a 3d touch (I downloaded the glasswalker settings from kisslicer.com).  Ran kisslicer and Cura next to each other and set both up for the same feed rate, filament diameter, layer height, and extrusion width.

To make cura output the same rpm as kisslicer I used 400 for Flow %.  Cura gives a warning and highlights the box red but it will still work.  See if that helps.

Steven

[toranarod]

Thank you Matt.

somebody on the other side of the world helps you. Like WOW.  seriously Thank you. 

My extruder One is out of the machine for service nozzle change so was using three.  I will put extruder 1  back in to make this much less awkward. 

will go and run the files.      

  cheers

[Matt Hoover]

Thanks Steven, I was trying to figure out which direction to go. I will try two tests, change the % to 400 and then the estep setting. Hopefully it doesn't crash!

[Daid Braam]

Yes, I need to know the proper "stuff" to get the RPM values. There is a factor 10 between the TEST1 and TEST2. (Test2 is 10 times slower)

The E steps value won't do anything for the BFB (it just adds an M92 Exxx, which won't do a thing on the BFB)

[Matt Hoover]

K so after reading daids response I only performed test 1. Great news 400% seems very close, I got a completed part off my 3d touch. It's a rather complex rc part for my truck so maybe I should go back to the basic cube from here on till we are all happy with the results.

What do you want me to do next? I'll try whatever settings and geometry that will give you the most insight. Let me know.

[Steven]

Matt,

Good to hear!  My suggestion is to run some thin wall test cubes to dial in the Flow %.  I am going to do the same thing with my Cubex.  Then we can give Daid some solid info for the rpm.  Just curious, did you use the profile that I created for Toranarod, or did you make your own?

Steven

[Matt Hoover]

Steven,

Thanks again for your help, I used the wizard that came with the cura software when it starts up and then messed around with some of the settings.  Do you have a link to a stl file for the test cube that you want me to use?  I have my nozzle set to .5 and I sure hope that it is correct??? 

I will print some blocks and get some feedback for you on my findings. 


Thanks,
Matt

[Daid Braam]

Instead of actually measuring the printed part, you could check the amount of filament that Cura reports that should go into the print, and see how that compares to the actual amount of filament used.

What I would like to know is the settings for a certain printer type, so I can add that as a default profile. Which should give people the option just to select that profile at start and setup nothing else and go. So if you report values, please report the exact model of printer.

[Steven]

Matt,

Attached is the test cube that I like to use.  In Cura, Basic Tab, set Quality>Shell thickness equal to nozzle size.  Set Fill>Bottom/Top thickness to 0.  Set Fill>Fill Density% to 0.  This will create a hollow print without a top and bottom with walls 1 extrusion wide.  Measure the thickness of the walls with a pair of calipers.  Do not include the bottom 3 layers (On my machine they are thicker than the rest).  Adjust Filament>Flow% up or down as needed until the measured wall thickness equals the nozzle size.  I am doing the same thing on my cubex.

My idea is to get Cura calibrated to your 3D touch and my Cubex.  Then we can save our profiles and our resulting .bfb files.  You could call yours 3dtouch.ini and 3dthouch_test_cube.bfb.  I will do the same.  Then we can send our files to Daid.  

Also look at M227.  If you cannot get what you want out of Cura then manually change it to what you want and put a remark in your .bfb file.

If we both do this together then we can provide Daid with hard specific documentation on what each machine needs.  Then he can decide how he wants to setup Cura.

Lastly, would you be willing to share your Kisslicer .ini files with me?  I want to setup my Kisslicer to more accurately program for a 3d touch so I can provide better information to Daid.

Steven

[Matt Hoover]

Hopefully I can actually get pictures to work on here.

First test at 400% and .5mm shell/nozzle. She'll ended up at .61-.63. What % do you think I should try?

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/uatmah/C959BC9E-E00A-45A2-8FB3-201129379D6C_zpsnl7f7qb7.jpg

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/uatmah/6ED41A31-CA60-4FA2-9F41-3119A2313DC5_zpshwxlw0oc.jpg

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a493/uatmah/213FDE9C-37BD-4F78-A1A4-58B46E53678D_zpsbniyr71k.jpg

Thanks
Matt