copy post "CUBEX duo" (I suppose all the pics are linked to the original forum and disappear when the original forum is deleted)
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funBart
Dec 14, 2013, 7:10:01 PM12/14/13
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CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5069#msg5069>
« *on:* May 09, 2013, 07:46:40 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5069;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Does any one have settings that work with the CubeX printer?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5072#msg5072>
« *Reply #1 on:* May 09, 2013, 12:08:26 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5072;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
I'm not really sure that any other slicer will work with those. 3D Systems
is increasingly closed and proprietary. Before they discontinued the 3D
Touch and Rapman printers without notice, and then made the 3D Touch into
their CubeX with its expensive proprietary filament canisters, they
introduced a new version of their slicer that outputs encrypted print
files, so you can't make any alterations or see what they are doing with
their print profiles.
« *Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 01:39:27 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5082#msg5082>
« *Reply #2 on:* May 09, 2013, 04:55:22 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5082;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Yea I can not see what they are outputting, but the printer will work with
regular g-code(I am told) so I was wondering if someone did the work to
figure it all out, If not we will have to try until we get it working. the
software for the printer is...not good.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5084#msg5084>
« *Reply #3 on:* May 09, 2013, 07:29:12 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5084;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: kozlojak on May 09, 2013, 04:55:22 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5082#msg5082>
Yea I can not see what they are outputting, but the printer will work with
regular g-code(I am told) so I was wondering if someone did the work to
figure it all out, If not we will have to try until we get it working. the
software for the printer is...not good.
The 3D Touch on the firmware required to parse their encrypted garbage from
Axon3 would read G-code. We raised a stink about it. Probably a
contributing reason why they dumped the line. Haven't heard anything about
the CubeX and G-code capability but, if it does read it and prints well
using it, I'd strongly wager that those days are also numbered. They do a
lot of stuff that herds you into where they want you to be. Finally come
out with a fix for this problem or that and, gee, you have to flash the
firmware to use it. Then the printer doesn't work as well as it did
previously and, surprise, you can't roll-back to the earlier firmware. More
than a few bricked their machines; flashing the new firmware that wasn't
adequately tested prior to release. I never stepped on that land mine.
Important job in the studio and just didn't want to take the chance of
having the printer down. Then I watched as all the complaints came flying
in.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5165#msg5165>
« *Reply #4 on:* May 13, 2013, 10:24:39 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5165;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Where did you hear that it accepts regular g-code?
Assuming that that's true, the next question is how you send files to the
printer: Place them on a thumb drive/SD card, send them over a network
connection, open them in some special "send to printer" software? Is there
some step in the STL->printed object process where you can look at the
sliced file and edit/replace it?
Assuming that all of the above is possible, it looks like the Cube X is
heavily based on the 3D Touch, so that's the firmware I'd try slicing for.
Just make a very simple test object (perhaps even just a few movement
commands hand-coded), rename the file with whatever extension the Cube X
expects, and try printing it. See what errors you get, if any.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5195#msg5195>
« *Reply #5 on:* May 14, 2013, 06:57:03 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5195;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Well, I can open the gcode file and view it on the cube3d software. and
when i put it on a USB key the printer will list it but has an error while
it is reading the file.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5197#msg5197>
« *Reply #6 on:* May 14, 2013, 08:42:36 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5197;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
If you can open a regular g-code file in the cube3d software, can you also
save it?
As for the printer error, I'd guess it's either a checksum error or a
complaint about the format, although it could be an issue with the actual
g-code commands. Can you post the exact text of the error?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5200#msg5200>
« *Reply #7 on:* May 14, 2013, 10:24:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5200;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Robw,
While the software can open it, it grays out the build and save icon. as
for the error, it just says error reading file.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5201#msg5201>
« *Reply #8 on:* May 14, 2013, 10:37:25 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5201;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Try turning off comments.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5207#msg5207>
« *Reply #9 on:* May 14, 2013, 02:06:02 PM »
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Quote from: kozlojak on May 14, 2013, 06:57:03 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5195#msg5195>
Well, I can open the gcode file and view it on the cube3d software.
Quote from: kozlojak on May 14, 2013, 10:24:31 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5200#msg5200>
While the software can open it, it grays out the build and save icon.
Unclear whether you are viewing the code or the model? Sounds more like the
latter.
What Sublime suggested about comments is true. BfB printers used to choke
on them but I thought that Jonathan fixed that by limiting the line length.
Since then, I've never tried it with them turned on.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5227#msg5227>
« *Reply #10 on:* May 15, 2013, 03:41:50 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5227;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
We are starting to see the CubeX owners emerging into the market place.
I hope we can sort out the CUBEX. As a BFB owner i would like to see theses
machine sorted. I will do what ever I can to help engineer a way for the
owners over come this locked down system. Even as far as replacing the
controller.
good luck.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5263#msg5263>
« *Reply #11 on:* May 15, 2013, 05:18:40 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5263;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Here is the information I have on the bfbe files that are generated by its
software
here is a example of a decrypted file:
http://pastebin.com/VXH1dhaX
I also have the blowfish key that is used to decrypt it. Not sure if I
should post that here
it uses blowfish-compat ECB
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5279#msg5279>
« *Reply #12 on:* May 16, 2013, 04:31:50 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5279;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
after some more testing, it will read the file after it is decrypted and
you can change Checksum to NO and it will not complain about that. so if
you add this to the header and change the material type as needed(
http://pastebin.com/kmJKwJUg <http://pastebin.com/kmJKwJUg>) the printer
will print. I don't think time maters and the materiallength is just used
to be sure there will be enough left in the cartridge to print the E1 at
the end of some of the setting is for extruder 1) I can make a kiss file
(with no comments) and it will read and start to print.
^Firmware:V1.03
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:26
^MaterialLengthE1: 3459
^MaterialCodeE1: 215
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5282#msg5282>
« *Reply #13 on:* May 16, 2013, 07:45:24 AM »
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Genius! Good timing, too...I'm trying to collect some good profiles for
common machines.
thanks!
Jonathan
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5285#msg5285>
« *Reply #14 on:* May 16, 2013, 09:13:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5285;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
I am working out the settings for this printer, but 1 item I can not seem
to change is the prime at the beginning of the print, is primes far too
much and causes the extruder to skip
This is the bad info:
; begin wipe
M542
; prime extruder
M551 P32000 S900
; end wipe
M543
I need to replace M551 P32000 S900 with M551 P1500 S150
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5303#msg5303>
« *Reply #15 on:* May 16, 2013, 09:32:37 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5303;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Skip?
I actually changed mine from P32000 S900 to P57000 S600. This is 600 lower
P than what Axon does. The default RPM for this in Axon is 60. 90, IMO, is
too fast for a first prime anyway. After this is complete, the firmware
continues with a lower RPM prime, then the head leaves the wipe box. It
ensures that the extruder is fully ready and I have had better results
after making this change in the G-code inserts.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5311#msg5311>
« *Reply #16 on:* May 17, 2013, 11:58:39 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5311;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Here are the settings I am using right now, I am still fine tuning a few
things but it is looking better then the default software for sure. I have
also attached the python script for inserting the header and fixing the
prime lines(very rough script) I have also noticed that when the job is
done some plastic will be left on the end of the head and cause it to hit
and break off when you start the next print, so try to clean it off after
the print.
script: http://pastebin.com/QtGyNnpt
Settings:
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5312#msg5312>
« *Reply #17 on:* May 17, 2013, 12:26:18 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5312;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
What KS version are you using? Those screens are really old.
And, not that it matters once you get on a current version, but 43mm/Rev
... not likely, unless they've made a major change in the extruders; which
I wouldn't think they would do--they took everything *else* from the 3D
Touch.
I measured 1.0297. Others came in within a few hundredths of that; both by
physical measurement and calculations. The value has been hard-coded in
later versions. Flow is still adjustable by other means.
« *Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 12:37:33 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5314#msg5314>
« *Reply #18 on:* May 17, 2013, 12:52:31 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5314;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
wow, not sure where/how I got such an old version. downloaded the new one
and will play with it next week.
I assure you that is the correct value, I get very good prints with it.
With the cubex software on the printer display the extruder rpm would be
1-5 rpm during a print. I get similar with this setup.
I assume with the new software I can use gain to increase the value? Is the
hard coded value multiplied by the gain? and what is the hard coded value?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5316#msg5316>
« *Reply #19 on:* May 17, 2013, 06:19:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5316;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Well, the extruder must have changed. The 3D Touch, that is the essence of
A CubeX, uses a threaded rod lead screw and pressure rollers to push the
filament against the rotating lead screw. I measured the grooves on a
length of filament removed from the extruder and got the value I posted
above. After a bit of discussion, the value that is hard-coded was settled
on as 1.03 mm of filament travel per revolution. In order to get 43mm (1.7
inches) of filament travel per revolution the lead screw would have to be
bigger than the printer, perhaps by a factor of two.
Here's a post on it. The value stated by Jonathan at that time was 1.08 but
it may have changed. Not sure why he went that high, because no one
measured or calculated more than 1.06, with most coming in around 1.04, as
I remember.
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=338.msg2366#msg2366
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5321#msg5321>
« *Reply #20 on:* May 18, 2013, 05:12:03 AM »
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The cubex uses the same/similar extruder as the cube, the filament comes in
the top through the gear and pressure pulley then out the tube(heated) on
the bottom
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5322#msg5322>
« *Reply #21 on:* May 18, 2013, 07:26:50 AM »
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Well, that would make the difference. No more helix drive. Which, if I know
them, also means a shorter time to end of life for 3d Touch parts.
« *Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 07:30:23 AM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5324#msg5324>
« *Reply #22 on:* May 18, 2013, 08:35:41 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5324;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Oh hey! Another MOI 3D user!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5325#msg5325>
« *Reply #23 on:* May 18, 2013, 12:58:25 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5325;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: throwmeaway on May 18, 2013, 05:12:03 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5321#msg5321>
The cubex uses the same/similar extruder as the cube, the filament comes in
the top through the gear and pressure pulley then out the tube(heated) on
the bottom
The 3D Touch extruder.
this was one of the reasons why I still purchased an machine that was
being doped by the company.
It had some great hardware and many other things. this is from my spare
parts bin.
Can you get past the cartridge locked in system?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5327#msg5327>
« *Reply #24 on:* May 18, 2013, 01:26:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5327;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: SyntaxCapt on May 18, 2013, 08:35:41 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5324#msg5324>
Oh hey! Another MOI 3D user!
Did that finally get released? I was on an early testing team. Haven't
looked for it in a while. Development stalled and out of sight, out of
mind. Did like the way a lot of it worked. Like anything, it had a lot of
issues in its early stages.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5328#msg5328>
« *Reply #25 on:* May 18, 2013, 03:08:52 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5328;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
We have not tried yet, but we should be able to get past the cartridges
this guy just leaves an empty cartridge in the system and tells it to print
anyway http://www.howmuchsnow.com/cube/. I may also be able to leave an
empty cartridge in the system and change the header to use 0 material.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5329#msg5329>
« *Reply #26 on:* May 18, 2013, 04:13:58 PM »
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Well, that's good. I'd hate to run into the white PLA snapping problem and
be completely hemmed into their proprietary canisters; with no possibility
of adopting a material that performs as it should.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5377#msg5377>
« *Reply #27 on:* May 21, 2013, 07:24:59 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5377;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
*Settings for the new software:*
Use the same settings I posted above for the old software, some of the
options have moved but they are there
(turn on expert mode)
and change the printer->extruders->gain to 0.0225
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5479#msg5479>
« *Reply #28 on:* May 26, 2013, 09:10:55 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5479;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on May 18, 2013, 01:26:19 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5327#msg5327>
Quote from: SyntaxCapt on May 18, 2013, 08:35:41 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5324#msg5324>
Oh hey! Another MOI 3D user!
Did that finally get released? I was on an early testing team. Haven't
looked for it in a while. Development stalled and out of sight, out of
mind. Did like the way a lot of it worked. Like anything, it had a lot of
issues in its early stages.
Version 2 has been out for a little while now. It does have some annoying
bugs I must agree, but 3.0 appears to be on the horizon. For the price I've
been enjoying it.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6010#msg6010>
« *Reply #29 on:* July 08, 2013, 11:07:57 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6010;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Does anyone have a copy of the 1.04 or 1.03 .hex firmware file? My machine
was loaded with 1.05 and dont have to option to go back a version.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6104#msg6104>
« *Reply #30 on:* July 18, 2013, 01:08:50 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6104;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Hello,
attached you find both - 1.03 and 1.04.
I also have to say, that I get much more better prints with kisslicer.
... will now buy a pro license!
Daniel
[image: *] cubex_v1.03.hex<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2161> (605.84
kB - downloaded 65 times.)
[image: *] cubex_v1.04.hex<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2162> (607.02
kB - downloaded 78 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6200#msg6200>
« *Reply #31 on:* July 30, 2013, 01:54:24 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6200;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
I have the misfortune of being a CubeX owner (firmware 1.04) and have been
trying to follow the instructions in the previous posts to get the printer
to work with KISSlicer, but I get an "Unable to Print File" error when I
try to load the .cubex file on the printer.
These are the steps I have gone through so far:
1. Load the STL file in KISSlicer 1.1.0.14 (STL verified in Netfabb)
2. Change KISSlicer settings according to reply #16 by throwmeaway
3. Turned off comments and put in gain of .0225
4. Slice the file and save it
5. Use the python script to change the gcode header and other info
6. Manually modify the header to reflect v 1.04 firmware and a material
code of 250 (PLA white)
7. Rename the gcode file with a .cubex extension and put it in the printer
- alternately I tried to load the gcode file in the cubex software and it
loads without displaying any errors, but does not show any parts or slices
on the "table" - neither route was successful
Any suggestions on where I might be going wrong?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6211#msg6211>
« *Reply #32 on:* July 31, 2013, 02:49:00 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6211;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Make sure you have under "Printer" as "Firmware Type" "Bits From Bytes
Printers" selected.
When posted/saved - leave the file-ending "*.bfb", just copy it on a
usb-stick and select the file on your printer.
KISSlicer works like a charm even with firmware 1.06 here.
« *Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 02:55:35 AM by LucasB* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6218#msg6218>
« *Reply #33 on:* August 01, 2013, 04:16:01 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6218;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Thanks LucasB (and everyone else). That worked and the print quality is
much better than the software that comes with the CubeX.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6221#msg6221>
« *Reply #34 on:* August 02, 2013, 01:00:12 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6221;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Thanks for the confirmation (on the SW quality) and, at the same time, not
a surprise.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6226#msg6226>
« *Reply #35 on:* August 02, 2013, 06:56:21 AM »
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Hello,
I am currently trying to max out speed settings. Can anybody confirm if
there is faster printing possible then with the settings posted by
throwmeaway (http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.15)?
The cubeX local hardware or software seems to limit to certain top speeds
when printing. Help for finding that threshold is greatly appreciated.
« *Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 02:41:31 AM by LucasB* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6328#msg6328>
« *Reply #36 on:* August 22, 2013, 01:30:41 PM »
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Is it me or the picture from the post #16 are no more available?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6330#msg6330>
« *Reply #37 on:* August 22, 2013, 04:41:03 PM »
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It's you.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6332#msg6332>
« *Reply #38 on:* August 23, 2013, 04:49:35 AM »
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It was the settings on my computer!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6335#msg6335>
« *Reply #39 on:* August 25, 2013, 08:02:43 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6335;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
I have been working to get Kisslicer running for the CubeX. I've been
through all the messages in this forum. Unfortunately, the screen captures
of the configs which were posted were for an earlier version of the
slicer. I think I have correlated most of the settings to the current
product but it would be VERY helpful if someone could simply post an
archive of the config files or simply a new post of the captures of the
config screens for the current product.
I'm not being lazy here. I've been working on this for a couple of days,
but there are some new settings which do not get addressed in the older
software config screens.
Once I get the config working well using a manual edit of the output file,
I plan on working up a Windows GUI for post processing which allows
material/filament selection and any other items which can be automated.
I'll be sure to post that back here once I get to that step. But first, I
need to make sure I'm working with a proper baseline config for the CubeX!
Thanks!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6343#msg6343>
« *Reply #40 on:* August 26, 2013, 12:07:08 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6343;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Here are a copy of my settings files. I think I have applied the CubeX
settings for the newer version OK. The prints seem to work well (once the
GCODE files have been converted). If anyone sees any settings which can be
improved please advise...
[image: *] Settings.zip<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2242> (1.82
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6345#msg6345>
« *Reply #41 on:* August 26, 2013, 12:23:16 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6345;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
...and here is a little Windows Executable (and AutoIT Source Code) to
massage the BFB files into the appropriate format for the CubeX.
The program allows selection of the filament material from a List. All
settings (and defaults) are stored in an INI file (inc Material Codes).
The program (CubeIt) performs the following operations:
- Prepends New CubeX Header (Firmware Version and Default Material Code can
be set in the CubeIt INI file)
- Strips Old CubeX Header (Allows Reprocessing files to change Material
Code)
- Strips all Comments
- Strips Blank Lines
- Updates any/all "M551" primer commands. Default is "M551 P1500 S150" and
can be changed in the INI File.
The program can be run interactively (for interactive File and Material
Selection) or run as a post-processor from the command line. If running as
a post-processor simply specify the desired input filename as the first
command line parameter and the desired materialcode as the second command
line parameter. If no MaterialCode is specified (but still a filename)
then the default materialcode is pulled from the INI file.
At some point I will enhance this utility to work with multiple extruders...
Please feel free to post any bugs or suggestions...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6405#msg6405>
« *Reply #42 on:* September 04, 2013, 10:55:32 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6405;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Wow... I just got this working on a CubeX Duo and can't thank you enough.
I'm only an 1/8" into the first build using the KISSlicer - CubeX workflow,
but this is the cleanest output I've ever seen from this machine. Thanks
Again!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6408#msg6408>
« *Reply #43 on:* September 04, 2013, 07:19:14 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6408;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Hello,
How do you select print jet 2 or 3. The build file wants to print on jet 1?
For the material, you can only select "PLA - CubeX". If you use ABS, do you
just change the temperature setting higher?
thank you.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6409#msg6409>
« *Reply #44 on:* September 05, 2013, 06:03:41 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6409;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Jet selection is done in the KISSLICER App. I don't have any ABS settings
established but I expect the temps are similar to other generic
implementations.
Here is an updated copy of CUBEIT. It will take the KISSLICER output and
massage it as appropriate for the CubeX. I have updated the code to reset
the primer string (M551 P1500 S150) regardless of which of the three jets
you are using (M551..., M552..., M553...). The new key in the INI file is
"M55" and you can just place the settings after the key. CubeIt will
detect any/all M55X commands and replace the settings accordingly.
There are other nozzle specific G-Codes which are located in the BFB files
but KISSLICER deals with them directly. So far, the M55x code appears the
only one that needs to be post processed. I may update CUBEIT later on to
allow reprocessing of the BFB files to allow quick nozzle swaps without
reslicing (i.e. shift all material using nozzle 1 to nozzle 2) if it seems
to be of value. (IOW - you sliced your model to use Black PLA on Nozzle 1,
but now you want to print with the Red PLA on Nozzle 2...) This would
obviously require a Material Code change and a swap of all the nozzle
specific codes in the BFB file....
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6410#msg6410>
« *Reply #45 on:* September 05, 2013, 08:34:20 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6410;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
If anyone has the blowfish key handy please feel free to send it to me via
a PM. I could incorporate it in CUBEIT to generate native files... It
certainly would be handy to analyze the native files in any case...
Thanks...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6413#msg6413>
« *Reply #46 on:* September 05, 2013, 10:41:29 AM »
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Never Mind...
;-)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6414#msg6414>
« *Reply #47 on:* September 05, 2013, 01:56:42 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6414;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
I am running some ABS material right now and will report back my settings.
I cannot believe what I am seeing. Who wrote that software for the CubeX?
Whoever it is needs to be fired. Night and day difference in the print
quality.
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Re: CUBEX Duo<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6415#msg6415>
« *Reply #48 on:* September 05, 2013, 04:54:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6415;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
I'm new here and this is absolutely fantastic! I am printing on my #1
extruder...how do I get something to print on the #2 extruder? I usually
have different materials/colors loaded. It would be FANTASTIC if CubeIt
could allow us to change extruder and material/color.
Can someone point out where in the KISSlicer interface I need to look or is
it swapping out G-Code?
Thanks,
Charlie
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6417#msg6417>
« *Reply #49 on:* September 06, 2013, 05:46:44 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6417;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Swapping Nozzles in your GCode is not a big deal as long as you have the
same type of (ABS/PLA) Material (but perhaps a different color). If you
change material (ABS/PLA) then you also have to consider temp and flow
issues. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here - Kisslicer is the
proper tool to do that (change material). CUBEIT is just meant to be a
simple post-processor to help KISSLICER to work with the CubeX environment.
A quick comparison of Kisslicer BFB output files shows that the following
GCODEs are the only ones that change when only a nozzle is changed (at
least in my test model):
Nozzle1 Nozzle2 Nozzle3
-------- -------- ---------
M101 M201 M301
M104... M204... M304
M108... M208... M308
M551... M552... M553
T0 T1 T2
Only the PRO version of KISSLICER "works with multiple extruders". I'm not
sure if that means the free version is limited to only printing with nozzle
1 or that it simply won't use more than 1 nozzle in a single print. In any
case, if you like KISSLICER you should show your appreciation by purchasing
the PRO licenseand supporting the author (regardless of whether you need
multiple nozzles or not). My $0.02...
Assuming the above info is correct, I can easily update CUBEIT to swap in a
different nozzle for nozzle 1. This would assume that you always print
with Nozzle 1 and simply want to change to Nozzle 2 or 3 (for a different
color). Material changes (temps, etc), as stated earlier, would beyond the
scope of this project...
I'll see if I can work that option up shortly...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6418#msg6418>
« *Reply #50 on:* September 06, 2013, 08:15:27 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6418;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Great info...thanks for your reply. I'm doing a few tests with KISSlicer
and will be purchasing it VERY soon.
Thanks,
Charlie
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6419#msg6419>
« *Reply #51 on:* September 06, 2013, 11:48:15 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6419;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
This work is absolutely fantastic to see. I tried to get KISSlicer to work
with Windows 7, but got file access denied errors, so I will try on Windows
XP. I have a Cubex Trio that I have been fighting with for over a month
now trying to get good quality prints. I got the heated print bed, so that
makes a huge difference, but the Cubex software still produces mediocre
quality.
One big issue for me is support structures and how Cubex software does a
poor job with it. I tried with limited success to print my models in ABS,
and used PLA (natural color) for support. PLA eventually dissolves away in
hot H2O/NaOH, so there is huge potential here for some intricate parts. If
KISSlicer can handle multiple print heads each with different materials in
one build, that would bring this machine up near the level of a Stratasys
rapid prototyping machine (which we have where I work so it makes for a
great comparison). Keep up the great work!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6420#msg6420>
« *Reply #52 on:* September 06, 2013, 11:58:03 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6420;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
I have the updates done with CUBEIT to support post-processing changes to
swap the selected print nozzle. This assumes you will always be starting
with a print set up for nozzle 1 and want to change it over to 2 or 3.
Basically, it allows you to change all the nozzle 1 GCODE to Nozzle 2 or
3. If this works well, then maybe I will enhance it to allow to to change
any nozzle (1-3) to any other (1-3). First things first. This also
assumes you will be using the same type of material in the new nozzle since
no attempt is made to adjust temps, etc.
I'm just cleaning up the code now and will post it shortly...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6421#msg6421>
« *Reply #53 on:* September 06, 2013, 12:00:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6421;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
BTW - I have KISSLICER working quite well with Windows 7 on two of my
machines and Windows 8 on the other. If your having an issue with your box
running KISSLICER on Win7 its not the O/S itself - its something else...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6422#msg6422>
« *Reply #54 on:* September 06, 2013, 12:19:36 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6422;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
The issue I am having may have something to do with the security settings
on Windows 7 since it will not allow KISSlicer to save files. Hopefully I
will have that figured out soon.
In regards to changing nozzles, it can also be done by just re-mapping them
right on the Cubex machine using one of the menu items. I have done that
quite often already when I want to print the same part in a different
color.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6424#msg6424>
« *Reply #55 on:* September 06, 2013, 01:39:45 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6424;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Make sure you are saving files to some place other than your programs
(Program Files, Program Files(x86)) Folders). Just try saving somewhere
else (Like "My Documents"...) If you can save a file there (with NotePad)
then there should be no issues. Its not a compatibility thing, I assure
you...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6425#msg6425>
« *Reply #56 on:* September 06, 2013, 01:49:20 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6425;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
OK, Here's the latest version of CUBIT. It will allow nozzle swaps for
any/all of the 3 nozzles. The GCodes used to build the array of swap codes
are set up in the INI so if anyone identifies any other codes they are
easily added to the INI file (no program changes required).
Note that this version requires a new INI file (attached) with the
[NozzleSwapInfo] section included. (The Keys in the [NozzleSwapInfo] can
be named anything - however the associated GCodes to swap are listed in
Nozzle1,Nozzle2,Nozzle3 order).
Its hot off the press, I did run a couple of sanity checks on it although
its not exhaustively tested. Please post additional a note if you find
something that needs attention... In any case, the AutoIT source code
(*.AU3) is included in the spirit of Open Source (unlike the "Spirit of
CubeX")...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6426#msg6426>
« *Reply #57 on:* September 06, 2013, 05:37:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6426;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Another update... Found an issue with allowing multiple extruders in my
code...
There are (at least) two lines in the CubeX header that refer to extruder
usage. For a print using a single extruder (#1), the CubeX print file has
two lines similar to the following in their proprietary header:
^MaterialLengthE1: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 209
It appears we can always set the MaterialLength to "1" and the MaterialCode
to whatever material we select, However its the "E1" part of the lines that
need to be researched. I feel fairly comfortable substituting E2 or E3 in
these specifiers if Nozzle 2 or 3 is selected, but the real question is
what to do if multiple extruders are used by the print (i.e. Is the order
of the lines important). Even if we assume that pairs of specifiers for
multiple extruders are simply declared in the header in order, there are
still a couple of technical challenges for the code.
1. Since the CUBEIT code allows swaps for any/all of the three nozzles,
then the header would have to be written AFTER the file is processed as we
don't really know what nozzles are used until after the GCode is
processed. It would be easiest to do this by processing the GCode file
twice. Once to do any nozzle swaps and detect which nozzles are ultimately
used, and then once again to prepend the header.
2. If we want to be able to use all three nozzles then I have to
effectively run the material selection GUI three times (once for each
nozzle).
3. I need to run some tests using decrypted native CubeX output files to
see how they handle specifications for multiple extruders in their header
so I can duplicate it.
All the above are doable, but I want to run a few tests first before I bank
on the changes. I have reverted the CubeIt logic to expect only Nozzle 1 to
be used in the source print file. So for right now, If you plan on running
a KISSLICER print file through CubeIt make sure you use Nozzle1 as your
output nozzle and preserve the original print file as a source file for
reprocessing. So currently, CubeIt will expect to find Nozzle1 commands in
your file but will allow you to change them to 2 or 3 if you wish.
Once I get the multi-extruder header stuff sorted out, I'll re-enable the
code to work with Multiple Nozzles.
I also cleaned up the format of the INI file so make sure you keep it
current as well...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6427#msg6427>
« *Reply #58 on:* September 06, 2013, 07:48:34 PM »
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Quote from: WarrenE on September 06, 2013, 11:48:15 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6419#msg6419>
I tried to get KISSlicer to work with Windows 7, but got file access denied
errors, so I will try on Windows XP.
Go to the application Properties > Compatibility tab and select: "Run As
Administrator"
In Win8 I don't install anything in /Program Files or /Program Files (x86)
if on x64. Problematical from the start, due to these permission errors on
saving files. I set an Applications directory on a drive other than the
System Drive, especially if it is an SSD, and install everything there in
either /Applications or /Applications (x86).
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6428#msg6428>
« *Reply #59 on:* September 06, 2013, 08:22:30 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6428;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Thanks so much. I moved it to a new "applications" folder and now it works
like a charm. Time to try some printing now. [image: :o])
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6430#msg6430>
« *Reply #60 on:* September 07, 2013, 08:48:50 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6430;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
OK - Here we go again. I think this should work to meet most folks
requirements.
It appears that the native CubeX software enumerates all the employed
MaterialLengths in the header before it enumerates the associated
MaterialCodes. For example, if your print used multiple extruders (1 and
3), the file header might look something like this:
^Firmware:V1.07
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:1
^MaterialLengthE1: 1
^MaterialLengthE3: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 209
^MaterialCodeE3: 202
This latest release of CUBEIT will take care of this for you. It will read
your input file to check which extruders/nozzles are being used. It will
then let you swap them for any other Nozzle (1-3) as you wish. This new
version of CUBEIT will also let you set and manage (via your CUBEIT.INI
file) the materials loaded into your specific nozzles.
So once you specify an input file, CUBEIT will then display its Main
Control Window. (CubeIt needs to read your original input file in order to
detect which extruders/nozzles are being used). You then can manage the
materials loaded into each extruder in the Main Control Window (these will
be remembered). The Main Control Window also provides a control set so you
can specify extruder/nozzle swaps during processing (this defaults to NO
swaps). For obvious reasons, only nozzles actually used in the original
input file will be swappable.
The new INI file format has more internal documentation. Although you
shouldn't have to manually edit the INI file, its designed to be very
flexible should something new come up. Take a look at the INI file if you
want to get an idea of what is being done as your as your BFB file is
post-processed.
(Win Executable, INI File, and Source Code attached)
Feedback from testing is appreciated!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6431#msg6431>
« *Reply #61 on:* September 07, 2013, 08:53:02 AM »
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Quote from: PenskeGuy on September 06, 2013, 07:48:34 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6427#msg6427>
In Win8 I don't install anything in /Program Files or /Program Files (x86)
if on x64. Problematical from the start, due to these permission errors on
saving files. I set an Applications directory on a drive other than the
System Drive, especially if it is an SSD, and install everything there in
either /Applications or /Applications (x86).
The default install is not a problem in Win8 as long as your account has
administrator privs and you have UAC (User Access Control) turned all the
way down...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6435#msg6435>
« *Reply #62 on:* September 07, 2013, 11:45:11 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6435;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
[quote author=evanevery link=topic=689.msg6431#msg6431 date=1378572782The
default install is not a problem in Win8 as long as your account has
administrator privs and you have UAC (User Access Control) turned all the
way down...
[/quote]
Which is a Bad Idea; both of them. Common misconception. If you get owned,
well... I have it set to Quiet but not off entirely. The UAC may be a bit
of a pain if you don't know how to deal with it but, not that I'm a M$
troll or anything, it is designed to address a serious problem that you can
blame the malware authors for stuffing in all of our faces.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6438#msg6438>
« *Reply #63 on:* September 08, 2013, 07:09:19 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6438;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
The O/S shouldn't have to be so restrictive. There are better security
methods that don't compromise so much functionality. The O/S is supposed
to work for USER - not the other way around. I don't want an O/S which
refuses to let me install or run a legitimate program.
Spreading your programs and data all over the place just to get around
Windows built-in security doesn't make it any safer - just harder to
manage. If you really want to be safe - just unplug your box altogether.
The ultimate trade of functionality for security!
(I have made some updates to CUBEIT to improve the internal documentation,
comments in the INI file, and bit of streamlining for the internal code.
So there's a new version ready to be posted. I'll wait a bit before
posting it so as not to keep spamming this forum with updates. I'll roll
in any other changes we find at that point as well. Probably sometime
tomorrow...)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6441#msg6441>
« *Reply #64 on:* September 08, 2013, 11:53:27 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6441;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Well, I tried the latest Cubit software with the free version of KISSlicer
now a number of times, and it works very well, and is very easy! Thanks
for the great work. I really like the control I now have for printing and
supports. I still need to fine tune some settings for some gears that I am
trying to print where the quality is not at the level as the Cubify
software, but for other things where support is needed, the results are
great. I noticed that after processing the KISSlicer files with Cubit,
they can be read by the Cubify software. However, when you view the slices
by layer, the Cubify software doesn't see everything. Some layers are
blank. When the file is printed, there is no problem.
Now that this problem is on the way to being solved, I wonder how the CUBEX
counts the filament as it is printing. If there was a way to stop it from
counting, this would allow people to use other filament and not have to
worry about changing the firmware back to v1.04.
Because of this work, purchased the upgrade for KISSlicer. Just waiting
now for the access code so I can try some multi-extruder printing. Thanks
folks for your help.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6443#msg6443>
« *Reply #65 on:* September 08, 2013, 01:33:31 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6443;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on September 08, 2013, 07:09:19 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6438#msg6438>
The O/S shouldn't have to be so restrictive. There are better security
methods that don't compromise so much functionality. The O/S is supposed
to work for USER - not the other way around. I don't want an O/S which
refuses to let me install or run a legitimate program.
Spreading your programs and data all over the place just to get around
Windows built-in security doesn't make it any safer - just harder to
manage. If you really want to be safe - just unplug your box altogether.
The ultimate trade of functionality for security!
Oh, please....
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6447#msg6447>
« *Reply #66 on:* September 08, 2013, 03:54:30 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6447;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: WarrenE on September 08, 2013, 11:53:27 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6441#msg6441>
Well, I tried the latest Cubit software with the free version of KISSlicer
now a number of times, and it works very well, and is very easy! Thanks
for the great work.
You're welcome! I'll probably post the latest version of CUBEIT tomorrow.
I don't think there is much else to be done. I've streamlined the code a
little more, enhanced the comments in the code and the INI. New ideas
often come to me at night - so as long as I don't think of something else
tonight, I'll post the updated code/exe/ini tomorrow...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6452#msg6452>
« *Reply #67 on:* September 09, 2013, 06:27:43 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6452;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Here Ya go. CUBEIT: Latest EXE, SOURCE Code, and INI...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6454#msg6454>
« *Reply #68 on:* September 09, 2013, 09:11:57 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6454;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Its inevitable...
I got a PM from a member who was asking about KISSLICER integration. I
tweaked the code so it integrates completely (3 Nozzle Support) right from
within KISSLICER. It runs just the same interactively, but you can now
have it process transparently from within Kisslicer using any/all of the
three nozzles on your Cubex. (Before I made these last tweaks it would
only post-process for Nozzle1).
If you wish to use CUBEIT as a post processor for KISSLICER, simply put the
following command in your KISSLICER config pages (Printer -> Firmware ->
Post-Process):
CUBEIT.EXE "<FILE>" 209,202,0
- CUBEIT.EXE/INI must be located in your KISSLICER Program Folder (or
somewher in your Path)
- "<FILE>" should be specified exactly as shown (including quotes) -
KISSLICER will automatically replace <FILE> with your filename
- The last parameter is a list of material codes as installed in your CUBEX
Printer (comma delimited)
- "209,202,0" in my example would be PLA Black in Nozzle 1, PLA Red in
Nozzle 2, and nothing in Nozzle 3
- If you don't specify the last parameter, CUBEIT will use the material
codes set in your INI file
- The kisslicer file (before post processing) will be saved as *.BAK
- There is little point in requesting CUBEIT to do Nozzle Swaps as a post
processor so it is not supported in command line mode
Have fun...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6472#msg6472>
« *Reply #69 on:* September 10, 2013, 01:12:06 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6472;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Hello to the folks over in "Google Groups: CubeX 3D Printing" watching this
thread...
Why don't you join us over here? (I'ld join you there except Google Groups
exposes personal email addresses to the world...)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6477#msg6477>
« *Reply #70 on:* September 11, 2013, 07:14:16 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6477;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Ahhh, but I have...
I admit to extolling the virtues of KISSlicer and your work over there.
It's taken the performance of my machine from "toy" to "precision tool"
Your last update to CubeIt is really slick and being able to run it inside
KISSlicer as a post-process is sweet.
Thanks again...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6478#msg6478>
« *Reply #71 on:* September 11, 2013, 07:15:35 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6478;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on September 10, 2013, 01:12:06 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6472#msg6472>
Hello to the folks over in "Google Groups: CubeX 3D Printing" watching this
thread...
Why don't you join us over here? (I'ld join you there except Google Groups
exposes personal email addresses to the world...)
A few of us are already here. [image: ;)]
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6479#msg6479>
« *Reply #72 on:* September 11, 2013, 07:20:44 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6479;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
I was going to also join the Google Group until I noticed that the private
email address of anyone who posts a message is publicly visible. That's
unfortunate...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6480#msg6480>
« *Reply #73 on:* September 11, 2013, 08:10:17 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6480;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
To be honest I didn't know of the Google Groups email issue - until I
started receiving email questions from other CubeX owners around the world
on integrating w/ KISSlicer... I just refer them back here!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6481#msg6481>
« *Reply #74 on:* September 11, 2013, 08:51:14 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6481;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
At least here you can keep your email address private (and just use PM's
for personal messaging)...
But its good to have all the interested parties "in the same room" so to
speak. CUBEIT really doesn't do much you can't already do by hand with a
little effort, but I'm here if folks find bugs or have enhancement
requests...
Its going to be REAL important for everyone to be able to work together if
Cubify starts making things even more restrictive in future updates. (I
already have a solution ready if they start blocking unencrypted files, but
there is little point in letting that go unless it becomes necessary).
Its really a shame that they try to close off such a nice piece of
equipment. I'm not sure what they think they are gaining by trying to
force you to use their crappy software tools. I think we all agree that
the printer is even a more attractive product when using KISSLICER as the
slicing engine...
The expensive, unreliable, proprietary filament cartridges are a whole
'nother issue though. Although there are some workarounds using older
firmware and empty cartridges, its just a matter of time until a more
integrated solution becomes available...
Do they think they would have sold LESS printers without all this
nonsense? ..or do they think they are simply going to get rich by selling
filament at three times the market value?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6485#msg6485>
« *Reply #75 on:* September 11, 2013, 05:05:11 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6485;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on September 11, 2013, 08:51:14 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6481#msg6481>
Do they think they would have sold LESS printers without all this
nonsense? ..or do they think they are simply going to get rich by selling
filament at three times the market value?
The latter. They spin it in all manner of ways to try to deflect this
conclusion by laying down a thick smokescreen but that is the only thing
that really fits.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6506#msg6506>
« *Reply #76 on:* September 16, 2013, 11:29:11 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6506;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
I am trying out Kisslicer for our Cubex Trio. I need to get a little
better before I approach my boss about purchasing the pro license.
The vertical surfaces generally look better. However I am having a problem
with the first couple of layers. In Photo1.jpg the image on the left was
generated with the Cubex software. The part on the right with Kisslicer.
The first layers seem to create a flare (not sure what to call it). See
Photo2.jpg and Photo3.jpg.
Cubex Trio, Firmware 1.07, PLA, 0.25 layer thickness
Using the settings.ini posted earlier and the latest Cubit.
I have tried different parts and "Fast" and "Precise" modes.
Any ideas?
Thanks
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[image: *] Photo1.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2315> (206.03
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<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2317;image>
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6507#msg6507>
« *Reply #77 on:* September 16, 2013, 12:54:37 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6507;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Have you measured/set your Z-Gap?
(BTW - CUBEIT does NOT adjust any geometry or temps - so if your ZGap is
good then check your KISSLICER settings...)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6509#msg6509>
« *Reply #78 on:* September 16, 2013, 01:10:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6509;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Squished first layers are usually due to the head being too close to the
surface; perhaps combined with a high first layer temperature.
Adjust this in KS with Z-offset in the Printer > Hardware tab. + increases
the distance, - decreases. Be careful with - or you can drive the nozzle
into the bed. I found the best way to measure the distance is to use a
simple small part like a calibration cube and turn Skirt on. Just let the
first, second and third layers complete and stop the print. Use micrometers
to measure the thickness of the skirt and adjust from there. As you
approach the correct setting, you can monitor the edges on the part itself
and stop when you get the profile you like. A skirt thickness that is at or
just a few thousandths of a mm greater than the printing layer thickness
will produce squishless first layers.
It is a very fine setting, especially when going thicker than layer
thickness. At one point, the extrusion will no longer reliably stick to the
bed. That's when you lower it a bit until it does.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6510#msg6510>
« *Reply #79 on:* September 16, 2013, 01:25:28 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6510;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
You can use a simple sheet of paper as a feeler gauge to set the ZGap.
Just raise the bed until a single sheet of standard notebook paper starts
to grab as you pull it back and forth under the nozzle. Once you get the
bed to where you can just start to feel the print head scratching the paper
then zero your ZGap...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6526#msg6526>
« *Reply #80 on:* September 17, 2013, 12:56:01 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6526;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Wow! Thanks for the replies and suggestions.
I had already leveled the plate and set the Z-gap.
I ran several test prints adjusting temperature and Z offset. However I
could not get rid of the apparently squished layers...Until.
I realized that I had changed the "number of loops" (under style) from 1 to
2. This particular test part had a thick enough wall that KS was trying to
fill it with a zig-zag. This created a rough wall so I set the loops to 2
which solved the problem.
When I set loops back to 1 the "squished layer" effect went away. I am
running another test print now. I will post some pictures at some point
comparing KS to Cubex.
Thanks for the help.
Evanevery, thanks for Cubeit.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6552#msg6552>
« *Reply #81 on:* September 19, 2013, 03:56:24 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6552;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
That notwithstanding, setting the KS Z-offset by a few thousandths to
hundredths of a mm + will eliminate the squish. I print a number of parts
with Loops up to 30+ and can eliminate the squish quite easily. That your
squish disappears by setting Loops to 1, says that it is a combination of
Z-offset and First Layer Temperature.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6567#msg6567>
« *Reply #82 on:* September 20, 2013, 06:10:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6567;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
...just make sure that your bed height (Z-Gap) is properly calibrated
BEFORE you start changing any settings in KS. Otherwise you will end up
having to compensate for the error in each and every print and will chase
it forever.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6570#msg6570>
« *Reply #83 on:* September 20, 2013, 07:44:04 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6570;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Hi all. Just joining after finding this thread on the google groups post.
I downloaded KISSlicer, settings.zip, and the latest CubeIt from this post.
Loaded the STL in KISSlicer, changed the printer to CubeX and the material
to CubeX.
Saved the file with KISSlicer, opened it with CubeIt, and saved the output
to a USB stick.
The printer is happy and the quality of the print is SO much better! Thank
you all for the work you've put into make this a simple work-around for the
sub-par quality of the CubeX software.
Using firmware 1.04 and filament from ebay.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6572#msg6572>
« *Reply #84 on:* September 20, 2013, 12:09:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6572;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on September 20, 2013, 06:10:31 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6567#msg6567>
...just make sure that your bed height (Z-Gap) is properly calibrated
BEFORE you start changing any settings in KS. Otherwise you will end up
having to compensate for the error in each and every print and will chase
it forever.
Well, at least on this hardware, the Z-height adjustment isn't all that
fine. I set the nozzle to the bed and then fine tune it in KS with
Z-offset. Yes, that setting stays in every print thereafter but I don't
chase anything forever. Once the two dimensions are determined, it is a
static setting until I either add painter's tape or a glass plate to print
on. At that point, I mic the thickness and add it to KS's Z-offset and go.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6582#msg6582>
« *Reply #85 on:* September 21, 2013, 10:32:07 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6582;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Can anyone please tell me what is wrong with my .cube file (please find it
attached). It is a pipe. I generated the .bfb with KISSlicer using the
settings given by @evanevery. I then used @evanevery CUBEIT code. I then
saved the output file's .bfb to .cube. However, when I try to load this
file into the cubify software, the software always terminate abruptly.
Also, when I try to print it with basic cube 3D printer (Not cubeX) which
runs a v1.06 firmware, the printer always display the error message " fail
to print file". My catridge, I guess, is ABS neon green.
Thanks in anticipation
PS: you may change the extension of the attached .cube file to .gcode or
bfb to view the contents.
[image: *] hollow cylinder model4.cube<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2334> (117.58
kB - downloaded 4 times.)
[image: *] hollow cylinder model.cube<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2335> (117.57
kB - downloaded 1 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6584#msg6584>
« *Reply #86 on:* September 21, 2013, 10:52:58 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6584;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on September 09, 2013, 09:11:57 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6454#msg6454>
Its inevitable...
I got a PM from a member who was asking about KISSLICER integration. I
tweaked the code so it integrates completely (3 Nozzle Support) right from
within KISSLICER. It runs just the same interactively, but you can now
have it process transparently from within Kisslicer using any/all of the
three nozzles on your Cubex. (Before I made these last tweaks it would
only post-process for Nozzle1).
If you wish to use CUBEIT as a post processor for KISSLICER, simply put the
following command in your KISSLICER config pages (Printer -> Firmware ->
Post-Process):
CUBEIT.EXE "<FILE>" 209,202,0
- CUBEIT.EXE/INI must be located in your KISSLICER Program Folder (or
somewher in your Path)
- "<FILE>" should be specified exactly as shown (including quotes) -
KISSLICER will automatically replace <FILE> with your filename
- The last parameter is a list of material codes as installed in your CUBEX
Printer (comma delimited)
- "209,202,0" in my example would be PLA Black in Nozzle 1, PLA Red in
Nozzle 2, and nothing in Nozzle 3
- If you don't specify the last parameter, CUBEIT will use the material
codes set in your INI file
- The kisslicer file (before post processing) will be saved as *.BAK
- There is little point in requesting CUBEIT to do Nozzle Swaps as a post
processor so it is not supported in command line mode
Have fun...
Evanevery, Could you send the whole config page so I could copy/paste it
into KS.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
« *Reply #87 on:* September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6600;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
First off, thank you evanevery for coming up with Cubeit. I was about to
go down the road of buying new electronics and replacing all the guts of
this CubeX as it was completely worthless with the CubeX software. I have
a couple of questions around the KiSSlicer software. I apologize in
advance for how toolish these questions might be, I just haven't quite
grasped all the terminology and setting functions.
- What does increasing/decreasing flow tweak do and how do I tell which
way I need to go?
- Is there any advantage or disadvantage to setting material diameter
+/- to the measured diameter of the material?
- PenskeGuy - If I adjust the Z-lift to eliminate squish, does this
effectively change the Z setting across the entire height of the print?
- I've attached the CubeX print bed STL. If I change the bed center
settings to line up the grid with the print bed STL, will this correctly
line up the prints on the bed?
- In the Printer>Extruders> tab there is a gain setting. What does this
do?
- What is Oversample Resolution?
- Is the skin thickness setting intended to be the minimum wall
thickness of any part of the print?
- If I am seeing gaps in the layering (looks to me like not enough
material is jetting) what setting should I try to adjust?
- Am I understanding Loops correctly as the number of passes the head
makes while building a surface?
Thanks
EDIT:thought better of putting the 3dsys stl online...
« *Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 02:03:34 PM by bkjnky* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6603#msg6603>
« *Reply #88 on:* September 23, 2013, 05:29:21 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6603;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
I'm attaching pictures of two printed items side by side. Both printed on
the CubeX (1.04) but one was sliced with the CubeX software and the other
with KISSlicer.
Both slicers were set to .25 mm layer height. The CubeX print took 7 hours
and the KISS print took 7.5 hours. I have no problems with an extra half
hour when the quality is this good (please see attached).
**I almost forgot.. If you are using the settings from this thread and
printing a big part you might want to adjust the Bed Center X to -35mm in
the Printer tab of KISSlicer.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2343;image>
[image: *] CubeX_Left_KISS_Right.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2343> (977.6
kB, 1632x1224 - viewed 81 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2345;image>
[image: *] CubeX_Left_KISS_Right_2.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2345> (1014.82
kB, 1632x1224 - viewed 54 times.)
« *Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 05:37:25 AM by cdlrenee* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6606#msg6606>
« *Reply #89 on:* September 23, 2013, 10:42:15 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6606;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
I think I solved the squished first layer problem. I re-leveled the plate,
reset the Z-Gap (copier paper), and set a Z-offset in KS. Thanks for
everyone's help.
Upgraded to KS Pro!
I found a new part that is giving me problems (see attachment). The part
on the left is from KS, on the right is cubex. Can any one point me in the
direction of which parameter to work on?
Cubex Trio Firmware 1.07
The white material is PLA, yellow is ABS.
PLA temp = main 215, first layer 250, keep warm 150
Destring = prime 0.05, suck 1, wipe 10, speed 15, min jump 1
Flow adjust = Flow tweak 1.1, Min 0.01, max 10
Speeds for this print = Loops 16, Solid 21, Sparce 33.2
ABS settings same as above except temp= Main 250, first layer 275, keep
warm 150
Number of Loops 2, Infill 50% Rounded, Extrusion Width 0.6, layer thickness
0.25
Thanks
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2347;image>
[image: *] messy print.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2347> (103.74
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6610#msg6610>
« *Reply #90 on:* September 23, 2013, 01:42:56 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6610;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
I apologize in advance for how toolish these questions might be, I just
haven't quite grasped all the terminology and setting functions.
I'll answer this set but it is good to use the forum search, as all of them
have been answered. This is basic stuff that we all worked to learn and
you'll also find more information on how each of these work by following
the threads. Some of these seem a bit trollish... The KS manual is out of
date but does have basic stuff that crosses most of the versions. You can
also search on "Idiots Guide". That will lead you to a manual of sorts that
a lot of us wrote for this student.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
What does increasing/decreasing flow tweak do and how do I tell which way I
need to go?
Increasing/decreasing the flow tweak increases/decreases the flow from the
computed center point. KS determines how much material to supply by
computing that from a number of factors. Different materials act
differently. Flow Tweak makes a fine adjustment to the computation to
accommodate a particular material's quirks.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
Is there any advantage or disadvantage to setting material diameter +/- to
the measured diameter of the material?
It is essential. That is one of the basic values that KS uses to compute
the flow rate. Settings are present for a reason.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
If I adjust the Z-lift to eliminate squish, does this effectively change
the Z setting across the entire height of the print?
No. Z-lift is the amount that the head raises off the part before making a
traverse. Z-offset changes the nozzle to bed distance. You really should
look at the tooltips for most of these answers.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
In the Printer>Extruders> tab there is a gain setting. What does this do?
It makes major adjustments in the flow computation. Usually, you just leave
it at 1 and use Flow Tweak.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
What is Oversample Resolution?
Looks at finer details of the model and tries to generate paths that will
reproduce them. Takes a lot of memory when you get the setting down to very
fine levels.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
Is the skin thickness setting intended to be the minimum wall thickness of
any part of the print?
Yes. If it isn't satisfied by Loops, Infill makes up the difference.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
If I am seeing gaps in the layering (looks to me like not enough material
is jetting) what setting should I try to adjust?
Too complex to go into here. Can be caused by a lot of things; many of
which are addressed in this answer. You need to search on "calibration",
"cube" and "thin wall" then do a proper calibration or you'll just be going
around in circles and asking more questions. Calibration is the first thing
you do. Once that is done to set a baseline, then you can begin to figure
out what to change to address a certain condition; not before.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
Am I understanding Loops correctly as the number of passes the head makes
while building a surface?
Perimeters and Loops are mostly used on side walls; Perimeter being the
outer-most Loop. You *can* make top and bottom surfaces with Loops as well
by increasing the number of Loops to the point that their paths fill the
top and bottom surface and control the wall thicknesses by the Skin
Thickness setting. If the number of Loops is less than that required to
completely cover the top/bottom, Solid Infill will fill the remaining
portion.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6611#msg6611>
« *Reply #91 on:* September 23, 2013, 01:49:26 PM »
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Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on September 23, 2013, 10:42:15 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6606#msg6606>
The white material is PLA, yellow is ABS.
PLA temp = main 215, first layer 250, keep warm 150
Destring = prime 0.05, suck 1, wipe 10, speed 15, min jump 1
Flow adjust = Flow tweak 1.1, Min 0.01, max 10
Speeds for this print = Loops 16, Solid 21, Sparce 33.2
ABS settings same as above except temp= Main 250, first layer 275, keep
warm 150
Temps, especially first layer, are way too high. Depending upon
manufacturer, I run PLA at 195-215 -- keep warm 125, ABS at 225-250 -- keep
warm 140.
Did you do a proper calibration to arrive at Flow Tweak?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6612#msg6612>
« *Reply #92 on:* September 23, 2013, 01:54:05 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6612;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
I'm running cooler temps on my CubeX PLA - 200 main & 230 first layer
Your part looks like it was run a little "hot"
This part was run w/ the 200 main & 230 first layer setting
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6624#msg6624>
« *Reply #93 on:* September 27, 2013, 07:25:30 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6624;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: olule on September 21, 2013, 10:32:07 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6582#msg6582>
My catridge, I guess, is ABS neon green.
I took a quick look at the first file and nothing jumps out at me. You are
printing with Extruder #1 and if you DON'T have ABS Neon Green in their
then maybe the printer is refusing to process the file...
I did note that the time estimate in the header is "12" instead of "1". I
don't know if this matters, but, by default, I believe it should be "1" as
set in the default CUBEIT.INI file. Have you edited your INI file and
upset something?
Also, I got the material codes from another posting, and if 256 is not
actually ABS Neon Green then that could be a problem. If you post a
standard cubex output file which DOES work with your ABS Neon Green
filament, I'll confirm the material code...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6647#msg6647>
« *Reply #94 on:* October 02, 2013, 08:41:53 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6647;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Thank you evanevery for all the work to get this working on a CubeX. Also
thanks to the PenskeGuy for all his input and help in the forum.
I am using the kisslicer pro version and printing with a CubeX.
The kisslicer software is great. Overall so much better than the cubeX
software. Specially the supports work so well and are easily removed
without leaving hardly any marks.
I am trying to fine tune some parameters because I get some "layer
ribbing". (see attached picture)
The layers seem smother on the outside at the beginning where the part is
solid at the bottom.
Then when it gets to the hollow part, it seems to show the ribbing more.
The part in the picture is ABS, layer height .125 (I see similar at .25
layer),
Skin thickness 1.2
Extrusion width 0.6
Infill extrusion width 0.5
Loops 2
hollow
Speed 30 / 40 / 30 (slower speed did not seem to make much difference)
Temperature first layer was 275 the 270 for half of the part and then
turned down to 250.
Had some other parts printed at 235, but did not seem to make much
difference.
Also I am not sure what settings should change between PLA and ABS besides
temperature.
Thank you much.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2355;image>
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6651#msg6651>
« *Reply #95 on:* October 02, 2013, 11:04:57 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6651;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
A bit difficult to tell from the shot but it looks as if there are some
linear gaps in the layers where the part narrows about half way up? Some
sections of those layers appear to be properly fused and others are darker,
indicating a cavity.
Do the ribs oscillate back and forth laterally or do they grow and shrink?
There is a lot of squish on the first two or three layers. This indicates
too high a temperature and/or too close to the bed. 275 really is too high,
as is 270. 235 may be too low. It all depends upon the filament
manufacturer. Some ABS runs best between 250-260, others can get as low as
225.
From the blobbing on the top surface Infill to Perimeter joints, it seems
that a set of calibrations may be in order. There shouldn't be significant
bumps there. Remember that flow rate is tied to temperature. If you do a
calibration at one temp and set a Flow Tweak to get good dimensions and
flat Infill, and then change the temperature, the Flow Tweak will have to
be re calibrated for that temp. Feed rate is also tied to temp. If you're
printing too fast for a given temp, the extruder will not be able to supply
enough to keep up.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6654#msg6654>
« *Reply #96 on:* October 02, 2013, 12:24:08 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6654;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
The ribs seem to be fairly evenly around the part. There is one ~2mm wide
vertical area where it seems smoother. (either start or end of layer?)
I was running the temperature so high, because files created with the cubeX
software run that high.
But did not see much change when I lowered the temperature to 250 halfway
during the print.
I will try some "thin wall" calibration and "solid cube calibration" tests
next. Any other calibration I could / should do?
Thank you much Penske Guy,
very much appreciated.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6655#msg6655>
« *Reply #97 on:* October 02, 2013, 02:04:36 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6655;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
How is the vertical movement on your bed? Is it relatively smooth? Do the
guides or jacking screw need a little lubricant? ...or might they be
gummed up from too much lubricant? ...any scratches on the guides, etc?
I've always run a final Z-Gap setting on the bed to have the bed reset one
more time after I "think" I am done with my calibration. The bed settles a
little differently if it is running up or down. So when I think I'm done,
I rerun the Z-Gap setting with a piece of paper on the bed - if it doesn't
grab/scratch the paper the way I want, I adjust it and keep letting it do
its thing until it grabs/scratches properly without any further adjustment
on my part.
I'm not saying your issue is related to Z-Gap adjustment. However, the
process I follow does clearly indicate that there may be sufficient play in
the vertical bed mechanism to cause some printing error if the guides
and/or jacking screw have too little or too much lubricant...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6656#msg6656>
« *Reply #98 on:* October 02, 2013, 06:38:44 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6656;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 02, 2013, 12:24:08 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6654#msg6654>
The ribs seem to be fairly evenly around the part. There is one ~2mm wide
vertical area where it seems smoother. (either start or end of layer?)
This isn't answering my question on whether the layers grow/shrink or
oscillate back and forth. If they are like this;
==========================================
========================================
==========================================
it is different from ones that are like this:
==========================================
==========================================
==========================================
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 02, 2013, 12:24:08 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6654#msg6654>
I was running the temperature so high, because files created with the cubeX
software run that high.
Well, we all know that the CubeX software leaves a lot to be desired. Are
you using their filament?
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 02, 2013, 12:24:08 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6654#msg6654>
I will try some "thin wall" calibration and "solid cube calibration" tests
next. Any other calibration I could / should do?
Those are the two best.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6657#msg6657>
« *Reply #99 on:* October 03, 2013, 09:00:28 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6657;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
evanevery, the vertical movement is smoth, but I will double check by
decoupling the spindle nut and checking rails and nut/spindle.
PenskeGuy, sorry I misunderstood your question. It appears the layers grow
/ shrink.
I am using cubify filament.
I printed the same part with the cubeX printfile, and it came out smother
on the side (picture 1) (although the rest was crappy) and on the opposite
side of the part (picture 2) it was also smother but showed a little
pattern every ~ so many layers.
thank you
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2357;image>
[image: *] picture 1.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2357> (1208.25
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<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2359;image>
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6659#msg6659>
« *Reply #100 on:* October 03, 2013, 02:29:45 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6659;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
What's interesting is how the two slicers see the model. I'm at a loss at
present as to the cause of the reproducible waves that appear in each layer
of the CubeX print; creating vertical patterns throughout the print. That's
a pretty groaty print.
That the KS slice produces layers that are not the same dimension is
puzzling. If the layers were all the same dimension, but offset from each
other, this would indicate a hardware issue. That they shrink/grow (I'm
assuming all the way around the perimeter) could be a hardware issue but
then, if it was, it also should appear in the CubeX print--at least to some
degree.
Can you attach the model to a post, so we can look at that and slice it?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6671#msg6671>
« *Reply #101 on:* October 04, 2013, 06:44:21 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6671;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Here is the .stl file and also the .bfb file that was printed.
I just printed a different part in PLA and it came out pretty smooth.
So it seems the settings work for PLA but need to be tweaked for ABS.
I will try to do the thin wall and solid cube calibrations.
thank you.
[image: *] Test part 1.STL<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2361> (49.98
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[image: *] Test part 1_0.125_30-40-40.bfb<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2362> (697.6
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6699#msg6699>
« *Reply #102 on:* October 07, 2013, 05:57:41 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6699;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Hey All!
I manege to get a nice outcome with my ABS settings on the Cubex Due (in
terms of cleanness and surface). only problem I still can't handle, is that
after running endless tests I keep getting a printed model that is around
0.5mm smaller than it should.
I have tried changing many of the parameters to get a better result, but
all for nothing...
Perhaps someone here had the same problem, or just an idea what parameters
actually have to do with the size of the model so I can concentrate my test
on these.
Thanks a lot folks!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6700#msg6700>
« *Reply #103 on:* October 07, 2013, 06:13:19 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6700;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Can folks with good ABS prints please post their ABS temps/settings?
I'm also wondering if the issue 1LOOOOOPY1 is seeing could be related to
rotational binding of the CubeX cartridge. I have seen similar patterns in
some ABS prints and I'm trying to check on that now. I'm wondering if
problems with the rotation of the filament spindle can effect the amount of
material coming out of the nozzles. It might also stretch the filament a
bit which would effectively cause the amount of material entering the
nozzle to be a bit low. If the spindle rotates OK most of the way around,
and then has an issue for a small part of the rotation, and then frees up
again, maybe this could be the cause of the undulation pattern you see in
the sides of your model (as the amount of material flowing through the
nozzle oscillates similarly).
Its just a guess here, but perhaps changing the cartridge to another color
would help diagnose if its a cartridge issue...
We REALLY need to get these (unaffordable, unreliable, unavailable) CubeX
cartridges out of the equation (permanently)...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6701#msg6701>
« *Reply #104 on:* October 07, 2013, 09:19:38 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6701;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
I wondered about that as well, but then over the last week or so I've
experienced some similar issues with some PLA prints. I was seeing a
regular banding pattern on some prints. I resorted to printing a number of
simple cubes and cylinders to explore the issue further. I found that the
banding pattern would change depending on the layer thickness. The banding
would almost disappear when the layer thickness was greater than about .40
mm, and it got really bad when it was around .10 mm. There is a very
regular pattern to the banding as well. The G-code is identical for each
layer (except for z), so it is not the software that is the issue. I
wonder if it may be a combination of a bad linear bearing (one of mine is
making slight grinding noises) or if there is a stepper motor issue. If
the stepper motor is missing or skipping over a step once in a while, could
this compress some of the layers? When I get the chance, I will post some
of my pictures. In the meantime, I would suggest trying some different
settings for layer thickness.
I also wonder if this problem may also be tied to a relationship between
the Z spindle rod and the z height resolution and imperial versus metric
measuring systems. If the spindle rod has a certain number of threads per
INCH and the Z height is in MILIMETERS, is it possible that the stepper
motor stops somewhere between certain resolutions. If the motor has 200
steps between each revolution, and there are 8 threads per inch on the
spindle, then each "step" would move the table 0.0159 mm. There should be
some resolutions that would be more precise then others if the motor has to
stop on one side or the other of a pre-set resolution (eg: 0.127mm, 0.254
mm, 0.381 mm). Maybe I am totally out to lunch here... What is nice about
KissSlicer is that you can try any layer height you want.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6706#msg6706>
« *Reply #105 on:* October 07, 2013, 12:01:24 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6706;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Is the banding you are seeing related to your infill settings?
Before I switched to KISSlicer I had issues with severe witness lines that
I could see and feel in the surface of the part. These were directly
related to the intersection of the infill and the wall of the part...Really
nasty looking.
Since switching I have not had this problem return!!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6707#msg6707>
« *Reply #106 on:* October 07, 2013, 12:15:52 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6707;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Lucas, Yes, please post your kisslicer setting that work for you.
(extrusion width, infill extrusion width, ect....)
After running the thin wall calibration I ended up with a flow tweak of 1
(1.1 was the original setting).
evanevery, I am running all my spools outside the cartridge on an external
spool holder to avoid the possible binding, but it's a good point to watch
out for. I will double check if it is moving smooth. I have tried also
different spool, about the same.
The cubify cartridges' filament is ~ 1.68 - 1.7mm diameter. The extruder
seems to be sensitive to the filament thickness. I tried an aftermarket
filament that measured ~ 1.75 and the extruder started "clicking" and
having issues. The extruder mechanism is fixed for a certain diameter. So
you have to find an aftermarket filament with the same thickness as the
cubify one.
Warren,
Is the CubeX spindle metric? I will try and measure the pitch tonight.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6708#msg6708>
« *Reply #107 on:* October 07, 2013, 01:02:03 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6708;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on October 07, 2013, 06:13:19 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6700#msg6700>
We REALLY need to get these (unaffordable, unreliable, unavailable) CubeX
cartridges out of the equation (permanently)...
Amen and amen!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6710#msg6710>
« *Reply #108 on:* October 07, 2013, 02:53:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6710;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on October 07, 2013, 06:13:19 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6700#msg6700>
I'm also wondering if the issue 1LOOOOOPY1 is seeing could be related to
rotational binding of the CubeX cartridge. I'm wondering if problems with
the rotation of the filament spindle can effect the amount of material
coming out of the nozzles. It might also stretch the filament a bit which
would effectively cause the amount of material entering the nozzle to be a
bit low.
If the filament were stretched, it would change the extrusion output but
have you tried stretching cold filament?
Quote from: evanevery on October 07, 2013, 06:13:19 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6700#msg6700>
If the spindle rotates OK most of the way around, and then has an issue for
a small part of the rotation, and then frees up again, maybe this could be
the cause of the undulation pattern you see in the sides of your model (as
the amount of material flowing through the nozzle oscillates similarly).
That which says to me that this isn't the issue is that KS has one problem
(grow/shrink of layers), Cubify has a different problem (waves in the
wall), while the hardware hasn't changed between the two operations.
I sliced the part and, while it did have an edge error, the paths looked
fine; not exhibiting either of the two problems that show up in the print.
« *Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 03:03:14 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6711#msg6711>
« *Reply #109 on:* October 07, 2013, 02:58:11 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6711;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
However, I did notice this:
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 02, 2013, 08:41:53 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6647#msg6647>
The part in the picture is ABS, layer height .125 (I see similar at .25
layer),
Skin thickness 1.2
Extrusion width 0.6
Infill extrusion width 0.5
Loops 2
hollow
I'm unsuccessful in searching for the actual nozzle diameter on the CubeX.
Not a surprise, knowing BfB. With them, less is more; especially when it
comes to supplying information. The nozzle diameter on my 3DT is 0.5mm.
This is the value set as Extrusion Width in KS for a 0.25mm Layer
Thickness; as suggested in the tooltip. This value is 0.1mm less than that
which is specified in Axon for that Layer Thickness, as I get better prints
using it. For other Layer Thicknesses the values are:
- 0.5000 Layer Thickness = 0.65mm Extrusion Width
- 0.2500 Layer Thickness = 0.50mm Extrusion Width
- 0.1250 Layer Thickness = 0.40mm Extrusion Width
- 0.1875 Layer Thickness = 0.45mm Extrusion Width
- 0.1250 Layer Thickness = 0.40mm Extrusion Width
- 0.1000 Layer Thickness = 0.38mm Extrusion Width
As the Layer Thickness diminishes, the Extrusion Width DROPS in proportion,
so as to maintain a constant thickness to width cross section. This
principle is followed in Axon as well. No matter what the CubeX nozzle
diameter may be, a 0.6mm Extrusion Width on a 0.125mm Layer Thickness is
way too much. You're trying to force far too much material into a smaller
space. With a 1.75mm nominal filament diameter, as opposed to the 3mm on
the 3DT using the widths above, that's a lot of pressure trying to squeeze
that wide in so thin a space. With a Flow Tweak of 1.1, the issue is
aggravated.
Try the Extrusion Widths above, perform another set of calibrations using
them, and see how it goes with the print.
« *Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 03:19:26 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6712#msg6712>
« *Reply #110 on:* October 07, 2013, 08:47:32 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6712;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Thank you PenskeGuy, really appreciate you always taking the time to help
and also explain.
The cubeX print nozzle is 0.5mm.
I will try to print again with 0.25 layer, 0.5 extrusion width and flow
tweak of 1.
Stupid questions:
On a 2 loop (or more loops) setting, is the inner loop printed with
Extrusion width or Infill extrusion width?
Can Skin thickness or Infill extrusion width affect outer layer quality? I
assume it should not if flow tweak was calibrated?
Bill D, have you tried printing a .bfb file with no cartridge installed,
but filament loaded on side spool?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6713#msg6713>
« *Reply #111 on:* October 07, 2013, 09:04:04 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6713;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Tonight I tried a number of things, and one that got rid of the majority of
ridges was to change the Min Layer from 20 to 5 (found under the fan/cool
settings). This allowed the extruder motor to turn faster since the layer
speed is not slowed down. Attached is a picture of a 30 mm disk printed
on the left with #5 and right with #20.
The extruder motor hardly turns at all even at a relatively fast extrusion
rate, so perhaps there is a minimum threshold where it is no longer very
well controlled.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2364;image>
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6716#msg6716>
« *Reply #112 on:* October 08, 2013, 01:01:33 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6716;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 07, 2013, 08:47:32 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6712#msg6712>
On a 2 loop (or more loops) setting, is the inner loop printed with
Extrusion width or Infill extrusion width?
Extrusion Width applies to all paths that are not Sparse Infill.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 07, 2013, 08:47:32 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6712#msg6712>
Can Skin thickness or Infill extrusion width affect outer layer quality? I
assume it should not if flow tweak was calibrated?
Yes, as can Loop / Solid Infill Overlap. In a solid cube calibration, where
you determine the Solid Infill attachment to the Perimeter, if the overlap
is too great for the specified Infill Extrusion Width, the Perimeter can
become distorted. I have been wondering if this is the cause of the Cubify
waviness, but you said that the setting was hollow.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6735#msg6735>
« *Reply #113 on:* October 09, 2013, 08:27:50 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6735;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
I am trying to understand and learn the setting and effects, looking at
sliced parts with different settings, but still need help.
What determines the loop 1 and loop 2 overlap?
If for example my Extrusion Width is set to 0.6, with 2 Loops, would that
determine a minimum skin thickness?
What if skin thickness would be set to 0.8 with Extrusion Width of 0.6, 2
loops?
Regarding Infill Extrusion width, it only applies to Sparse Infill /
Stacked sparse infill? (Green and Dark green path color key)? So in a
hollow part, everything prints with Extrusion Width?
Is the Gain setting in the Printer/Extruder tab setting the baseline factor
for the extrusion speed? And you use flow tweak then to fine tune?
thank you
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6737#msg6737>
« *Reply #114 on:* October 09, 2013, 12:07:25 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6737;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 09, 2013, 08:27:50 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6735#msg6735>
What determines the loop 1 and loop 2 overlap?
If for example my Extrusion Width is set to 0.6, with 2 Loops, would that
determine a minimum skin thickness?
What if skin thickness would be set to 0.8 with Extrusion Width of 0.6, 2
loops?
Loops make up the minimum wall thickness based upon Extrusion Width. The
Skin Thickness setting adds to that only if it is greater than the sum of
the number of Loops*Extrusion Width. It does this by generating Infill that
satisfies the overall thickness setting not covered by Loops. If Skin
Thickness is less than number of Loops*Extrusion Width, it does nothing
except influence the top/bottom handled by Solid Infill.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 09, 2013, 08:27:50 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6735#msg6735>
Regarding Infill Extrusion width, it only applies to Sparse Infill /
Stacked sparse infill? (Green and Dark green path color key)? So in a
hollow part, everything prints with Extrusion Width?
In a hollow part, everything prints with Loops so, yes. The UI and Tooltips
need some updating, still, in order to be less ambiguous; especially having
two types of Infill. Extrusion Width applies to everything except Sparse
Infill.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 09, 2013, 08:27:50 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6735#msg6735>
Is the Gain setting in the Printer/Extruder tab setting the baseline factor
for the extrusion speed? And you use flow tweak then to fine tune?
Yes. Gain is a gross setting used only in extreme instances. It alters the
mm/rev factor that is hardcoded. Usually, you just leave it alone. Flow
Tweak is more than you'll need to adjust the output volume.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6741#msg6741>
« *Reply #115 on:* October 09, 2013, 04:01:55 PM »
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Quote from: PenskeGuy on May 16, 2013, 09:32:37 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5303#msg5303>
Skip?
I actually changed mine from P32000 S900 to P57000 S600. This is 600 lower
P than what Axon does. The default RPM for this in Axon is 60. 90, IMO, is
too fast for a first prime anyway. After this is complete, the firmware
continues with a lower RPM prime, then the head leaves the wipe box. It
ensures that the extruder is fully ready and I have had better results
after making this change in the G-code inserts.
PenskeGuy,
where did you make this change to the Prime code? Has anything changed
since you posted this?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6743#msg6743>
« *Reply #116 on:* October 10, 2013, 12:02:00 AM »
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In the Select Extruder G-code tab. I dropped back from the P57000 to
P42000, as there seemed no use for the extra amount of purge.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6756#msg6756>
« *Reply #117 on:* October 11, 2013, 12:30:17 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6756;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
The test cube that I am using is 15x15x15. Printing with cubify white ABS.
(so far printed 15 with different settings, and did not always print the
cube to full height).
When doing the thin wall calibration, I come up with a 1.0 flow tweak.
When printing the cube at 0.25 layer, vase, with 2 loops, 1.0 skin
thickness, 0.5 extrusion width, 15mm/s speed and 1.0 flow tweak, the
results are:
wall thickness is between 1.0 and 1.05, but there are gaps in the extrusion
(picture 1). The gaps get worse with flow tweak 0.95.
When I up the flow tweak to 1.1, the gaps go away, but the wall thickness
goes up to between 1.06 to 1.13.
The gaps also go away if I slow down to 10mm/s speed from 15mm/s.
Is there any other tweak to do?
The cube outside dimensions don't seem to change with the changing Flow
tweak values between 0.95 and 1.1. The cube outside measures between 14.9mm
and 15mm.
Seems like that the first wall thickness (the wall where the layer starts)
is always a little thinner (by ~ 0.05mm) than the other 3 walls.
The outside dimension of the cube measures the same.
Overall I don't care so much about dimensional accuracy, but would like to
get rid of the ribbing.
So far the best results for ABS at a 0.25 layer have been:
Skin thickness 1.0, 2 Loops, Extrusion width 0.5, Infill extrusion width
0.5, 1.1 Flow tweak, but still get some ribbing that I don't see when
printing the same part with a cubeX slicer file. Overall the cubeX slicer
part come out crapier, but I don't see the ribbing much. (picture 2). There
is a section that printed very smooth in the kisslicer part (shoulder
height area where it looks burnt).
I think it comes down to tweaking the parameters in kisslicer. Just not
sure what else to tweak or try?
Also have to revisit printing with PLA, because I have one model that
printed very smooth in PLA.
Thank you.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2400;image>
[image: *] pic 1.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2400> (376.4
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<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2402;image>
[image: *] pic 2.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2402> (728.75
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« *Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 12:32:31 PM by 1looooopy1* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6758#msg6758>
« *Reply #118 on:* October 11, 2013, 02:06:35 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6758;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 12:30:17 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6756#msg6756>
When doing the thin wall calibration, I come up with a 1.0 flow tweak.
How can you get an accurate measurement if the walls are ribbed?
What Flow Tweak setting do you arrive at with a solid cube?
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 12:30:17 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6756#msg6756>
When printing the cube at 0.25 layer, vase, with 2 loops, 1.0 skin
thickness, 0.5 extrusion width, 15mm/s speed and 1.0 flow tweak, the
results are:
wall thickness is between 1.0 and 1.05, but there are gaps in the extrusion
(picture 1). The gaps get worse with flow tweak 0.95.
When I up the flow tweak to 1.1, the gaps go away, but the wall thickness
goes up to between 1.06 to 1.13.
The gaps also go away if I slow down to 10mm/s speed from 15mm/s.
This would indicate that the flow/temp ratio is off. IOW, too low a
temperature for the amount of material being asked to push through a tiny
hole in a given period of time. There is a relationship between flow rate,
feed rate and temperature. The faster you want to go, the thinner the
liquid needs to be. If the viscosity is too high, the drive mechanism
cannot keep up. There is a finite limit to speed.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 12:30:17 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6756#msg6756>
Seems like that the first wall thickness (the wall where the layer starts)
is always a little thinner (by ~ 0.05mm) than the other 3 walls.
The outside dimension of the cube measures the same.
This could be due to too much retraction. The extruder is starving and
catches up as the layer progresses and the extruder reaches full pressure.
What is interesting to me in the bust model is the regularity of the
ribbing. Can't see on the cubes very well, they're out of focus. Trying to
come up with some sort of logic that would cause a cyclic pattern like
this. Even though you get different results with Cubify, it still seems
that there is a hardware issue. Perhaps it is a compatibility between
hardware and slicer that is being uncovered. Wouldn't be a surprise,
knowing 3D Systems.
Are there any clicking sounds produced while printing? I'm unfamiliar with
the adjustments on the extruder drives, as differing from a 3DT. There is a
heavy spring under a cap screw that presses the filament against the drive
lead screw on a 3DT. I'm assuming that similar is on the redesigned drive.
Might try adjusting the pressure if that is the case. If, as in the above
analysis, the temp is too low for the flow requirement a higher pressure
may help, as it will provide a more positive drive forward.
I would try settling on a set of settings (heh, that's funny) like the
above where you got a good calibration, and then change the temperature in
5 degree increments and note any and all differences in output.
« *Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 02:08:39 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6759#msg6759>
« *Reply #119 on:* October 11, 2013, 02:31:47 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6759;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 07, 2013, 08:47:32 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6712#msg6712>
Bill D, have you tried printing a .bfb file with no cartridge installed,
but filament loaded on side spool?
No, I haven't tried that.
I suspect the main board would still check the cartridge slots regardless
of what type of g-code file it's printing. In other words, there is nothing
in the g-code file which tells the printer to check the cartridge status.
That happens either way.
I decided to pit the latest version of the CubeX slicer (a few days old)
against KISSlicer on a really small part. That square is marked in
millimeters. The print on top is from CubeX. The one on the bottom is from
KISSlicer. Both have a bit of trouble solid filling such a tiny part, but
obviously CubeX is a lot worse on accuracy.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6760#msg6760>
« *Reply #120 on:* October 11, 2013, 02:36:40 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6760;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
What is the Crowning set to?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6761#msg6761>
« *Reply #121 on:* October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6761;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
After I did the thin wall calibration, I checked the solid cube and it
looked good.
What would you do if the thin wall calibration gives you one flow rate
value and the solid cube a different?
During printing the 15x15x15 cube, I changed once the temperature half way
up the print from 260 to 235, but did not see difference in the print
outcome or change in ribbing.
There was no clicking from the extruder, but I heard that before when
manually going too low in temperature or too high in extrusion speed.
The CubeX extruder drive is fixed in gap for a very specific filament
diameter 1.68 - 1.70mm. That's I think why only some aftermarket filaments
work. (Tonight I can post some pictures from somebody who took the drive
apart).
To reduce the retraction, is that done by lowering the "suck" value?
Thank you again for helping.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6763#msg6763>
« *Reply #122 on:* October 11, 2013, 06:25:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6763;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6761#msg6761>
After I did the thin wall calibration, I checked the solid cube and it
looked good.
What would you do if the thin wall calibration gives you one flow rate
value and the solid cube a different?
Well, you'd make a determination as to which is more important to you. When
you did the solid calibration, did you follow this guideline:
- Enter the exact filament stock diameter in a few places and at
differing angles around the cylinder. Average the measurements. It often
isn't exactly 3mm or 1.75mm, as the case may be. This parameter makes quite
a difference, as KS computes the required extrusion volume based in part
upon this. Even cheap calipers are very helpful for this step.
- Set the Flow Tweak to 1.0
- Set the Solid infill / Loops overlap to 0.5
- Print a nice test piece (something like a squat rectangle is good,
maybe 15x15x5mm) using solid infill.
- Based on the interior of the part (not near the loops), adjust the
flow tweak parameter to taste. There should be no "doming", no "ridging",
no gaps between paths. Essentially as smooth a surface as can be realized.
- Based on the solid/loops interface, adjust the overlap parameter to
taste. No "lumping" or "bulging" of the Perimeter at the intersection. As
small a gap between "turns" as is possible.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6761#msg6761>
During printing the 15x15x15 cube, I changed once the temperature half way
up the print from 260 to 235, but did not see difference in the print
outcome or change in ribbing.
There may not have been sufficient time for the extrusion to reach a stable
temperature. A 15mm x 5mm cube isn't very large. Eliminate all extraneous
variables if you are going to uncover a cause. Even the initial phase in
starting a print will have temperature variances. Print an entire cube at a
given temperature, evaluate, then adjust and print again.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6761#msg6761>
There was no clicking from the extruder, but I heard that before when
manually going too low in temperature or too high in extrusion speed.
That would be consistent to what I mentioned about extrusion pressure.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6761#msg6761>
The CubeX extruder drive is fixed in gap for a very specific filament
diameter 1.68 - 1.70mm. That's I think why only some aftermarket filaments
work. (Tonight I can post some pictures from somebody who took the drive
apart).
That is a bad design and needs to be worked around. No one's filament is
accurate enough to set a fixed drive engagement. Idiots.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6761#msg6761>
To reduce the retraction, is that done by lowering the "suck" value?
Yes. What are they at now? Usually, the Prime and Suck values are the same
and a good starting point is 0.75mm.
« *Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 06:27:45 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6765#msg6765>
« *Reply #123 on:* October 11, 2013, 06:49:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6765;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Makes sense, thank you.
I will re-run the solid cube calibration.
I will also re-run the whole cube with different temperature.
Attached is a screen shot for the prime and suck settings.
Also attached is a pdf file, some other user created, with detailed
pictures of the inners of the cubeX extruder assembly. Very interesting -
but stupid.
thank you
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6766#msg6766>
« *Reply #124 on:* October 11, 2013, 07:55:29 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6766;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quick update comparison. I already printed the small part using KISSlicer
and Cubex slicer on the CubeX printer. On a whim, I used Cura on my
Ultimaker to slice and print the same small part. The three are shown
below. Left to right, it's Cura/Ultimaker, KISSlicer/CubeX, Cubex/CubeX.
There is obviously something more I can do with KISSlicer settings to
improve the quality.
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« *Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 08:03:24 PM by BillDempsey* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6767#msg6767>
« *Reply #125 on:* October 11, 2013, 08:45:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6767;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 06:49:54 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6765#msg6765>
Attached is a screen shot for the prime and suck settings.
OK. There's one big problem. 0.05mm Prime is essentially no Prime;
especially after a full 1mm Suck. Set both Prime and Suck to 0.75mm. Your
layer starts should improve significantly.
I'll check out the PDF. Thanks.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6768#msg6768>
« *Reply #126 on:* October 11, 2013, 08:50:54 PM »
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Quote from: BillDempsey on October 11, 2013, 07:55:29 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6766#msg6766>
The three are shown below. Left to right, it's Cura/Ultimaker,
KISSlicer/CubeX, Cubex/CubeX. There is obviously something more I can do
with KISSlicer settings to improve the quality.
Again, what is Crowning set to in KS? Crowning will fill in the small gaps
between the Loops and also the small voids.
Next, lower the Oversample resolution to have KS see smaller details. The
lower you go, the more memory is required and the slice takes more time,
because it is evaluating smaller features and generating shorter paths.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6769#msg6769>
« *Reply #127 on:* October 11, 2013, 09:43:52 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6769;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
OK. Looked through the PDF of the disassembled extruder drive and hot end.
If those optical encoders are meant to control the extruder filament drive
speed, I think we may have found the reason for the ribbing. From the
motion control projects we've worked on, the resolution of those light/dark
segments is nowhere near fine enough to produce a smooth advancement. Could
very well be that the CubeX firmware does some fancy footwork in
interpolation to smooth the steps out.
That said, there seems to be other CubeX users here who do not have the
ribbing issue. Color me at least partially confused.
Assuming you have two extruders or more, does the ribbing happen when
printing with them? I'm wondering if there is an issue with the encoders in
that one extruder. Swapping out whatever you can, many times leads to a
cause.
« *Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 12:27:17 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6773#msg6773>
« *Reply #128 on:* October 12, 2013, 04:49:58 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6773;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 11, 2013, 08:50:54 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6768#msg6768>
Quote from: BillDempsey on October 11, 2013, 07:55:29 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6766#msg6766>
The three are shown below. Left to right, it's Cura/Ultimaker,
KISSlicer/CubeX, Cubex/CubeX. There is obviously something more I can do
with KISSlicer settings to improve the quality.
Again, what is Crowning set to in KS? Crowning will fill in the small gaps
between the Loops and also the small voids.
Next, lower the Oversample resolution to have KS see smaller details. The
lower you go, the more memory is required and the slice takes more time,
because it is evaluating smaller features and generating shorter paths.
Thanks Penske. Sorry I didn't answer earlier, but somehow I didn't realize
you were talking to me. LOL [image: :)]
Crowning is set to 1. Oversample is currently at 0.125
Suggestions for new values? I have 12GB of RAM and I'm running 64bit, so I
should be ok on memory.
EDIT:
I just tried to change the values and realized they are greyed out. I'm
guessing I need the pro license to set those?
« *Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 05:17:24 AM by BillDempsey* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6777#msg6777>
« *Reply #129 on:* October 12, 2013, 03:54:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6777;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: BillDempsey on October 12, 2013, 04:49:58 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6773#msg6773>
Thanks Penske. Sorry I didn't answer earlier, but somehow I didn't realize
you were talking to me. LOL [image: :)]
Yeah, I looked and saw that I hadn't quoted. My post was directly under
yours, so thought it redundant.
Quote from: BillDempsey on October 12, 2013, 04:49:58 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6773#msg6773>
Crowning is set to 1. Oversample is currently at 0.125
Suggestions for new values? I have 12GB of RAM and I'm running 64bit, so I
should be ok on memory.
EDIT:
I just tried to change the values and realized they are greyed out. I'm
guessing I need the pro license to set those?
That is true.
On my 64-bit and 32-bit I usually set Crowning to 0 or sub-mm. unless there
are some Crowning paths being generated that are unnecessary or
problematical. I check them in the Paths view and adjust. Sometimes,
setting the value to non-zero alters the Loop or Infill paths to a more
beneficial pattern.
For Oversample, on the 32-bit box, I can't go below 0.06 or it'll throw a
Runtime error and quit. On the 64-bit box, I can go down past 0.001, which
is far below the printer resolution. Get the Pro license (the answer is
always "42") and set the OS to 0.03 and see how the paths look then.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6787#msg6787>
« *Reply #130 on:* October 13, 2013, 04:42:57 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6787;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Any CubeX users that can share their successful settings for PLA and ABS?
thank you.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6797#msg6797>
« *Reply #131 on:* October 14, 2013, 07:16:54 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6797;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 12, 2013, 03:54:19 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6777#msg6777>
...(the answer is always "42")...
Love the Hitchhiker reference. [image: :)]
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6799#msg6799>
« *Reply #132 on:* October 14, 2013, 08:23:06 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6799;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Problem found. - No more layer pattern or ribbing (at least on the test
cubes).
After printing test cubes all weekend with different settings PLA and ABS
on either jets and still always seeing some kind of pattern or ribbing of
the layers, I thought there must be something else going on. I turned the
heated bed off after the first few layers and the pattern or ribbing
disappeared.
When I check the z-gap and watch the gap between the bed and the print tip.
I can actually see the gap increase and decrease when I hear the heater
relay turn on and off to keep it at the set temperature. You can see it
especially when you are just heating the bed up or at higher set
temperature. That slight variation makes quite a difference.
In the attached picture, the cube on the left is with heated bed off. I
printed the exact same file for both prints. Both are 0.25 layer. (The
bottom layer is a little smushed because of tight z-gap and high 1st layer
temp etc..)
I have not noticed it so much with CubeX slicer files because I dumps a lot
more material down than kisslicer files. That extra material causes other
problems on the CubeX models but smoothens the layers.
I think Kisslicer uses the three big cooling fans more, that blow on the
print platform and cool the platform, so the heater needs to kick in more,
and depending on if or when or how frequent the fans come on, can explain
the layer ribbing pattern change.
So Kisslicer works great and my hardware is ok, just got to work out the
heat bed issue.
Was getting frustrated till I finally found the issue, but like PenskeGuy
says: "Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day".
PenskeGuy, sorry for the wild goose chase.
- I checked out your blog and bio, quite impressive and awesome.
thank you for all the help
I will fine tweak the settings a little and do a few more test prints and
then post my Kisslicer settings that seem to work great with the CubeX.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2415;image>
[image: *] test cube.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2415> (742.67
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6802#msg6802>
« *Reply #133 on:* October 14, 2013, 08:31:16 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6802;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Glad you found it. Sure felt like a hardware issue to me; right from the
start. Yes, any variance of bed to nozzle distance, however small, will
change the available space for the extrusion to flow into. You're only
dealing with thousandths of an inch. Question is, what in the world would
cause the bed to oscillate when the heater energizes? Magnetic? Could be.
Only thing that makes sense right off.
You can control the fans on/off and speed percentage. On my 3DT, I have to
turn off "Can Do PWM" to get speeds less than 100%.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6820#msg6820>
« *Reply #134 on:* October 16, 2013, 05:32:34 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6820;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Hi All,
Can someone please explain the use of the Prime and Suck functions and what
settings i should be using?
If i set these to both be 0.75, as suggested in one of the posts, i get a
very large deposit at the start of the first layer, which really messes the
print up.
I am new to the KISSlicer software and so not really sure if my settings
are correct. Really just trial and error from reading through the posts in
this forum. If someone with a set of settings for a Cubex Duo could PM me
them as good starting point, I would be grateful.
As things stand, I really struggle with getting a clean first layer, which
i believe is down to the prime/suck values, but I'm really unsure.
Also, can anyone recommend a good set of calibration parts which can be
used to checking my settings and system setup.
Any help much appreciated.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6824#msg6824>
« *Reply #135 on:* October 16, 2013, 01:06:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6824;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: champ1981 on October 16, 2013, 05:32:34 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6820#msg6820>
As things stand, I really struggle with getting a clean first layer, which
i believe is down to the prime/suck values, but I'm really unsure.
Best to use a Skirt. It will lay down a path separated from the part all
the way around it and get the nozzle all happy before starting the part
itself. When printing raftless on glass, it is extremely useful for
refining bed level and Z-offset, as you can mic the one layer thickness and
adjust very accurately.
That said, it could be that your temp is too high and you're getting ooze
on the way to the part. Prime/Suck really need to be adjusted from
observing the overall part quality; not just the first layer. That is
another issue and the cause will be found elsewhere.
Quote from: champ1981 on October 16, 2013, 05:32:34 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6820#msg6820>
Also, can anyone recommend a good set of calibration parts which can be
used to checking my settings and system setup.
Farther up in this thread:
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6763#msg6763
Get your materials calibrated and things may make more sense. Yes, you have
to calibrate each material at each temperature, at each feed rate if you
want consistency. Everything influences everything else. Slight variations
can be lumped together, to some degree, but any significant variation needs
its own calibration.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6833#msg6833>
« *Reply #136 on:* October 16, 2013, 07:23:07 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6833;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Yeah a skirt, or use the prime pillar. I had the same issue when switching
to KISS (without messing with the prime/suck settings).
Penske: I must be blind, where is the Oversample setting in the KISS
interface. I swear I have been through every dusty corner...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6835#msg6835>
« *Reply #137 on:* October 16, 2013, 08:56:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6835;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Misc. tab.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6840#msg6840>
« *Reply #138 on:* October 17, 2013, 05:29:21 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6840;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Ah on the computer I was working on I hadn't registered my Pro key so it
was greyed out. Thanks a bunch.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6842#msg6842>
« *Reply #139 on:* October 17, 2013, 08:17:03 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6842;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
What is the best remedy against splits in the part? See attached.
Part is ABS printed at 240deg, with printbed at 100deg.
The part come out great otherwise.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2434;image>
[image: *] part split.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2434> (1095.8
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6846#msg6846>
« *Reply #140 on:* October 17, 2013, 12:47:02 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6846;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
More information. How fast are you feeding? Fans on? Print envelope
shielded from drafts? How many Loops? Infill? What percent?
I'd say either slow down or raise the temp 5 deg.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6852#msg6852>
« *Reply #141 on:* October 17, 2013, 01:47:30 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6852;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: champ1981 on October 16, 2013, 05:32:34 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6820#msg6820>
As things stand, I really struggle with getting a clean first layer, which
i believe is down to the prime/suck values, but I'm really unsure.
champ1981, What I found, Kisslicer starts the first layer at a lower
z-height than CubeX files. So you can add a "Z Offset" in the Kisslicer
menu (In the Printer / Hardware tab of the Kisslicer software).
See attached pictures. When I looked at the displayed z-value during the
first layer print, the Kisslicer was at 0.25 and with CubeX file it was at
0.50. (printing with 0.25 layer height).
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2440;image>
[image: *] screen1.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2440> (378.06
kB, 996x664 - viewed 23 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2442;image>
[image: *] screen2.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2442> (434.41
kB, 996x664 - viewed 34 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2444;image>
[image: *] Kisslicer screen shot 1.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2444> (153.61
kB, 728x287 - viewed 25 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6854#msg6854>
« *Reply #142 on:* October 17, 2013, 02:03:02 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6854;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 17, 2013, 12:47:02 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6846#msg6846>
More information. How fast are you feeding? Fans on? Print envelope
shielded from drafts? How many Loops? Infill? What percent?
ABS, 0.25 layer, hollow, 2Loops, 0.8 thickness, 0.5 Extrusion width, 0.5
infill extrusion width, 1.1 Flow tweak, Speeds: 15-25-30, 240deg print
temp. Fans off.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6864#msg6864>
« *Reply #143 on:* October 17, 2013, 03:12:45 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6864;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Other than the temp, depending upon who the manufacturer is, that all looks
OK. Didn't say if you've enclosed the print envelope. That helps things a
lot. I have an R20 reflector flood aimed into the cavity and the sides and
front almost completely blocked with removable foamcore panels. Keeps
everything nice and steady in there, with low humidity and elevated
temperature & PLA stays dry.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6865#msg6865>
« *Reply #144 on:* October 17, 2013, 04:23:32 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6865;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 17, 2013, 03:12:45 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6864#msg6864>
Other than the temp, depending upon who the manufacturer is, that all looks
OK. Didn't say if you've enclosed the print envelope. That helps things a
lot. I have an R20 reflector flood aimed into the cavity and the sides and
front almost completely blocked with removable foamcore panels. Keeps
everything nice and steady in there, with low humidity and elevated
temperature & PLA stays dry.
This is the first time I had an ABS part crack, but I just started using
Kisslicer and playing with the settings.
I have to look a the setting when I printed something similar before and
did not get any cracking. I think I had higher flow tweak or maybe thicker
wall or some infill.
What if I place a towel over the printer? Did you ever have an issue with
it getting too hot? With the heatbed at 100deg, it can get pretty hot in
there without an air outlet.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6867#msg6867>
« *Reply #145 on:* October 17, 2013, 04:31:56 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6867;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Don't make it air tight. You want slow air circulation, without the
possibility of cooler draft puffs entering and disturbing things. On
problem parts, add another Loop and/or raise the temp, so that the layers
fuse better.
« *Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 04:37:31 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6869#msg6869>
« *Reply #146 on:* October 18, 2013, 07:55:07 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6869;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Kisslicer installation and setup for the CubeX. - updated
Attached are instructions and zipped up files to get the Kisslicer setup to
use with the CubeX.
Thank you to Evanevery and PenskeGuy to make this work for the CubeX.
[image: *] Kisslicer CubeX installation rev1.pdf<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2450> (322.93
kB - downloaded 67 times.)
[image: *] Kisslicer_settings_CubeX_rev1.zip<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2456> (664.43
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[image: *] Thin wall and solid cube calibration.pdf<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2457> (61.76
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« *Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 05:24:32 PM by 1looooopy1* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6872#msg6872>
« *Reply #147 on:* October 18, 2013, 02:12:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6872;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Nice calibration writeup. Seems I've seen that somewhere... [image: ;D]
Might just leave out the first section entirely. Thin Wall is covered first
in the section below.
I'd add the part about the cube being *solid*, not modeled walls, to the
cube description in the lower section.
Also move the "Extrusion Width = Nozzle Diameter" into the "In the Material
tab:" section, just above "Set Flow tweak to 1.0".
To make the package complete, and to make sure that *solid* is what is
used, here's two models. The larger one I used for the Thin Wall test, as
my mics have small (0.03125) diameter measuring surface extensions to get
into narrow places where the standard 0.250 diameter mics won't fit.
[image: *] box-halfinch.stl<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2453> (0.67
kB - downloaded 17 times.)
[image: *] box-75inch.stl<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2454> (0.67
kB - downloaded 16 times.)
« *Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 02:40:10 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6874#msg6874>
« *Reply #148 on:* October 18, 2013, 03:47:48 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6874;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Thanks, PenskeGuy,
I will edit it into the same post so it is all together.
Your input and help is always greatly appreciated.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6892#msg6892>
« *Reply #150 on:* October 21, 2013, 12:59:02 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6892;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: jms on October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6890#msg6890>
2) What ambient temperature should you be at? Does it matter?
The higher the better, up to a point. Consistency is more important but
somewhat elevated temperature is advisable.
Quote from: jms on October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6890#msg6890>
I am also thinking of enclosing the Duo. We live in Canada, but not in an
igloo. [image: :)]
I'm on the coast in Central California, where the climate is rather
constant, and enclosing makes a difference. No matter where you live and
what your external (to the printer) environment may be, unless it's a
totally controlled one, ya gotta think about internal atmospheric changes.
Even an unnoticeable waft of cooler air, perhaps caused by someone merely
walking past, can make a change in the print's energy quotient; creating an
across the part stress.
Quote from: jms on October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6890#msg6890>
3) Does setting a 360 jitter change the warp? It's a theory of mine that
not starting in the same position each layer will help, as we noticed the
most significant warp was on the starting corner of our bracket.
On Loops, the head spends more time at the start/end than anywhere else.
Slowing down or sitting there transfers more energy within a given time
frame. If you are employing multiple Loops, it is more of a factor.
Quote from: jms on October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6890#msg6890>
4) Does *anyone* use a non-adhesive solution to warping?
Here, it's more about getting parts to stick at all, than warping. Many
times, a part can be designed to relieve the stress.
For both ABS and PLA, I either print on glass or blue tape. When printing
PLA on glass, I apply only a thin film of dissolved ABS cement; and I mean
THIN--both in height *and* viscosity. The mixture is essentially a tinted
acetone; no noticeable thickening when compared to pure acetone. It is
applied to the glass with a folded over facial tissue as a barely
noticeable film. You have to look at a severe angle to see if it's there.
That's all it takes. Only a molecular interface is necessary. Anything
thicker is a waste of material and time to clean it up. On PLA parts, it
scrubs off with a short plastic nail brush under a bit of warm soapy water.
With ABS on glass, the hair spray really works the best, although the ABS
film is a close second.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6896#msg6896>
« *Reply #151 on:* October 21, 2013, 11:52:30 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6896;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
jms,
How big is the part footprint, what does it look like, can you post picture?
What is your heated bed temperature setting?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6898#msg6898>
« *Reply #152 on:* October 21, 2013, 01:14:00 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6898;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Don't have a heated bed. Some parts are 6"h x 6"w x 12"d.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2464;image>
[image: *] sun-3-top800.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2464> (37.9
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6905#msg6905>
« *Reply #153 on:* October 21, 2013, 06:19:22 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6905;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Hey guys, I am not down at the shop but I will post some pictures of the
warp tomorrow when I get down there. I don't remember the exact dimensions
either, but roughly 4" x 6" in an L shape. Heated bed temp we've run at
100, 105, 110, 120. Ambient temperature is 72F.
Penske: do you have a raft on that part? That's a gorgeous print.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6909#msg6909>
« *Reply #154 on:* October 22, 2013, 12:40:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6909;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Minimal raft, all the same material, as it doesn't need to be removed from
the support for its intended use.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6911#msg6911>
« *Reply #155 on:* October 22, 2013, 07:36:13 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6911;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
HOW to do for intall 1.04 firmware in the cubex?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6916#msg6916>
« *Reply #156 on:* October 23, 2013, 09:11:15 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6916;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 18, 2013, 07:55:07 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6869#msg6869>
Kisslicer installation and setup for the CubeX. - updated
Attached are instructions and zipped up files to get the Kisslicer setup to
use with the CubeX.
Thank you to Evanevery and PenskeGuy to make this work for the CubeX.
Trying to calibrate for pla using the instructions for thin wall using
15x15x5 cube, but it seems that no matter what I am setting the prime
setting to, I am getting a puddle at the start of the print, and then large
gaps on the first wall layers afterwards. Adjusting tweak up to 1.3 seems
to make the gaps smaller, but increases the wall thickness considerably.
if:
.05 prime, .5 suck, 1.0 tweak = small puddle large gaps on first wall but
good wall thickness
while .09prime, .5 suck, 1.0 tweak = larger puddle, same gaps, how do I
decrease the gaps and puddle while maintaining the thickness?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6917#msg6917>
« *Reply #157 on:* October 23, 2013, 09:22:34 PM »
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Quote from: babas45 on October 22, 2013, 07:36:13 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6911#msg6911>
HOW to do for intall 1.04 firmware in the cubex?
1. Unplug printer
5. Connect a USB cord to your printer and computer.
6. Hold the button marked "+" and simultaneously plug in the printer (you
may need help)
7. On your computer, open Cubify software and navigate to the update
firmware option click on it, and then select the firmware version you wish
to install.
8. Wait for the pop up window to indicate success then Unplug cubeX printer
9. Unplug USB cord from printer
10. Wait 10 seconds
11. Plug printer in and enter activation code.
12. Use touch screen to verify your software version.
You will need the reset your z-gap.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6920#msg6920>
« *Reply #158 on:* October 24, 2013, 07:13:18 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6920;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Hello everybody !
First, thank for all your post, they are really helpfull for a newbee like
me !
I installed Kisslicer with the setup for CUBEX and the quality is amazing,
i completely forget the cubex software.
I printed lots of 3d file with the basic setup send by 1Looooopy1 and it
work well, but i tried to increase the quality with a layer of 0.1 mm.
I took a picture of the first try, the yoda on the left is 0.1 and the one
on the right 0.25.
I'm really happy with the vertical print result but i don't understand why
it make an hole on the top of the head, do you have an idea to solve this ?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B45Rq_CeWLNXN0ZDelNzS09xRFU/edit?usp=sharing
I change the basic setup to this :
LayerThick : .1
ExtrusionWi : 0.38
InfillExtrusionWi : 0.38
Main Temp : 260
FirstLayer : 270
Speed Fast :
Perimeter : 15
SIS : 20
SI 25
Precise :
Perimeter : 5
SIS : 10
SI : 25
It was really slow to print it, 4H30 to complete it VS 1H30 in 0.25. And in
the 0.25 print supports were activated not in the .1.
Thanks for your reply !
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6925#msg6925>
« *Reply #159 on:* October 24, 2013, 09:54:22 PM »
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Quote from: bkjnky on October 23, 2013, 09:11:15 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6916#msg6916>
Adjusting tweak up to 1.3 seems to make the gaps smaller, but increases the
wall thickness considerably. if:
.05 prime, .5 suck, 1.0 tweak = small puddle large gaps on first wall but
good wall thickness
while .09prime, .5 suck, 1.0 tweak = larger puddle, same gaps, how do I
decrease the gaps and puddle while maintaining the thickness?
1.3 Flow Tweak is pretty high. Usually, I get positive results with only
+/- 0.1
Gaps would be caused by the large difference between Prime and Suck. The
extruder is being starved at the beginning of the path. Try a larger
setting (1.25) for both. As you adjust, keep them even or at least a lot
closer to each other. A small percentage of bias is OK. What you have there
is too great a difference.
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Prime and Suck and Puddles and Gaps<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6932#msg6932>
« *Reply #160 on:* October 25, 2013, 01:45:14 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6932;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I have a comment about Prime and Suck and Puddles and Gaps.
I am running a Cubex Trio firmware 1.06
I tried a large number for prime but it did not work for me. I ended up
with a very large puddle followed by gaps.
Prime .05, Suck 1, Wipe 10 work well for me for PLA and ABS.
Make sure that the Gain (under Printer, Extruders) is set to .0225 (for
Cubex) for all three extruders. I messed that up at one point moving
Kisslicer to a different PC.
Make sure that the extruder map is setup the way you want and that each
extruder has the correct material assigned. I seem to have a lot of
problems getting this set up correctly before my first cup of coffee. The
problem gets better after my second cup of coffee.
My 2 cents...Hope it helps.
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Re: Prime and Suck and Puddles and Gaps<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6933#msg6933>
« *Reply #161 on:* October 25, 2013, 03:11:32 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6933;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on October 25, 2013, 01:45:14 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6932#msg6932>
I tried a large number for prime but it did not work for me. I ended up
with a very large puddle followed by gaps.
Prime .05, Suck 1, Wipe 10 work well for me for PLA and ABS.
Well, those settings are just a bit odd. I get that the CubeX extruder
design is different but it's not THAT different. No matter what the drive
mechanism may be, the physics environment inside extruder nozzles will be
pretty much the same. IOW, a direct drive will require small amounts, while
a Bowden set up will require relatively huge amounts, due to the inherent
slop in a push/pull cable, in order to maintain the same environment in the
nozzle as a direct drive.
A "puddle followed by gaps" doesn't make sense. First: How large a
"puddle"? Second: This sounds like ooze or residual material on the outside
of the nozzle that squishes out when the head comes in contact with the
part.
What is your temperature?
How much Z travel is there at layer start/end and how is it being set?
The gaps are caused by the very large difference between Prime and Suck.
There is no material at the nozzle entrance and no pressure built up when
the filament has been retracted 1mm but only sent forward 0.05mm. Look at
it this way, if you have a series of short paths with jumps between, pretty
soon you'll end up with zero filament in the nozzle.
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on October 25, 2013, 01:45:14 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6932#msg6932>
Make sure that the Gain (under Printer, Extruders) is set to .0225 (for
Cubex) for all three extruders.
The Gain setting is a gross adjustment, upon which all calculations are
made. It needs to be set accurately, according to the physical hardware,
before any other settings are adjusted in calibration. IOW, if it is set
incorrectly, even by a tiny bit, you could be unnecessarily offsetting it
by adjusting other settings and still not get good results.
« *Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 03:15:41 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6940#msg6940>
« *Reply #162 on:* October 26, 2013, 09:11:59 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6940;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I get good results with Prime 0.06, Suck 0.5, Wipe 10.
Not sure why prime and suck have to be so different to work?
Have not tried with higher suck, but tried with Prime 0.1 and Prime 1 (see
attached pictures).
The cube with the smaller glob at the beginning of the first layer was with
Prime 0.1, and the other cube with the large glob with Prime 1.
It seems to just glob at the beginning of the first layer and then be ok.
Seems like the prime setting makes a large difference at the beginning of
the first layer, but then not so much later.?
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2480;image>
[image: *] test cubes 1.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2480> (565.29
kB, 1313x682 - viewed 19 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2482;image>
[image: *] test cubes 2.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2482> (852.06
kB, 1427x906 - viewed 18 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6942#msg6942>
« *Reply #163 on:* October 26, 2013, 11:57:58 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6942;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
WTF? I thought everyone was talking about a "puddle" at the start of *every* layer.
OK, messing with Prime, and keeping it waaaaaay lower than it ever should
be in relation to Suck, may have some influence on the puddle problem but
is *not* the solution. It's a band aid. There is some odd (no surprise
there) situation going on with the CubeX firmware.
Does the head move from the wipe box and just sit there spewing material
for a while before moving?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6946#msg6946>
« *Reply #164 on:* October 27, 2013, 12:56:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6946;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 26, 2013, 11:57:58 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6942#msg6942>
WTF? I thought everyone was talking about a "puddle" at the start of *every* layer.
OK, messing with Prime, and keeping it waaaaaay lower than it ever should
be in relation to Suck, may have some influence on the puddle problem but
is *not* the solution. It's a band aid. There is some odd (no surprise
there) situation going on with the CubeX firmware.
Does the head move from the wipe box and just sit there spewing material
for a while before moving?
Hi PenskeGuy,
in my case, yes the head sits for about 1.5 maybe even a full 2 seconds
before it begins moving. I was digging around in the CUBEIT.INI file and I
am seeing something that I am not sure about. I am way only a beginner
with this so maybe you or evanevry might have some insight. here is the
code I am talking about
[Config]
; This is the replacement priming command used for any extruders being used
(replaces data for M551, M552, M553)
*M55=P1500 S150*
The P1500 S150 seems suspect. If we are running cubit as a post processor,
could this be affecting the settings in the actual GCODE of the BFB file we
are using to print?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6948#msg6948>
« *Reply #165 on:* October 27, 2013, 02:01:17 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6948;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
That would be the smoking gun. Comment that out and set your Prime/Suck
values to .75mm each and try a print. May not be perfect but will get some
good data from which to adjust and tell if that purge is the cause of the
"puddle".
What is odd bout that M55 command is that it is the first three characters
of an M55<EXT+1> variable that controls purge for specific extruders.
Without the third number, how are they targeting which extruder gets purged?
In the mean time, can you post the g-code file for that open top cube, so
we can take a look at the command sequence?
« *Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 02:05:16 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6949#msg6949>
« *Reply #166 on:* October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6949;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Here are the files. I am more concerned with what I don't see changing
than with what cubeit is changing.
the prints came out exactly the same, and commenting out the mod in the ini
file doesn't seen to do anything to the output. I am wondering what you
think of the M227 lines on the standared BFB output I see vs the cubit
output?
Straight BFB file
M551 P32000 S900 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222 later in the file several times
*Cubeit Output file, with and without M55 line commented out*
M551 P1500 S150 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222
Seems to have the same puddle on either print though.
[image: *] 15mmx15mmcube_75PS_value_cubeit_output.txt<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2498> (5.9
kB - downloaded 5 times.)
[image: *] 15mmx15mmcube_75PS_value_bfb.txt<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2499> (5.81
kB - downloaded 3 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6950#msg6950>
« *Reply #167 on:* October 27, 2013, 03:28:26 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6950;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6949#msg6949>
Here are the files. I am more concerned with what I don't see changing
than with what cubeit is changing.
the prints came out exactly the same, and commenting out the mod in the ini
file doesn't seen to do anything to the output. I am wondering what you
think of the M227 lines on the standared BFB output I see vs the cubit
output?
Straight BFB file
M551 P32000 S900 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222 later in the file several times
*Cubeit Output file, with and without M55 line commented out*
M551 P1500 S150 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222
Seems to have the same puddle on either print though.
I think there must be some connection with M227. I have modified the M551
line by itself, with no change. After putting it back to the setting that
was output by cubit, I tried modifying the M227 line. M227 must control
the first layer Prime and Suck as well as any return from cooling pauses
(first to second layer, and head changes). I only changed the first M227
line in the file from P2222 to P222 and saw considerable improvement. When
the head returned from it's cooling wipe, it again laid down copious
puddling. After changing both M227 lines to P30, the print was nearly
perfect. think with a setting of somewhere in the 20 to 25 range for
this particular filament.
Now the question is what does M227 S2222 do?
« *Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 04:04:02 PM by bkjnky* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6953#msg6953>
« *Reply #168 on:* October 27, 2013, 05:51:15 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6953;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I think it would be helpful to look at the CubeIT.ini file in this regard.
You can open it in the text editor. The author comments on a number of
settings here including the prime and suck settings. I think you can
change those settings in this file, although I haven't had time to
experiment lately.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6954#msg6954>
« *Reply #169 on:* October 27, 2013, 06:12:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6954;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: WarrenE on October 27, 2013, 05:51:15 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6953#msg6953>
I think it would be helpful to look at the CubeIT.ini file in this regard.
You can open it in the text editor. The author comments on a number of
settings here including the prime and suck settings. I think you can
change those settings in this file, although I haven't had time to
experiment lately.
Yes, precisely what I am talking about above. Unfortunately the modifying
the M55X setting in the INI file doesn't seem to have any effect on the
first path or on any subsequent paths that involve head changes/cool
downs. also when adjusting the prime/suck setting in KISSlicer its the
M227 lines that are being changed, not the M55X lines.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6962#msg6962>
« *Reply #170 on:* October 28, 2013, 01:45:02 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6962;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 06:12:23 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6954#msg6954>
also when adjusting the prime/suck setting in KISSlicer its the M227 lines
that are being changed, not the M55X lines.
That is correct. In M227, the S is Suck, the P is Prime; both in stepper
steps. This line is generated from the Prime/Suck values entered on the
Material tab. Altering the stepper values in the G-code is the same as
setting mm values in KS.
In M55x, P is Purge amount in stepper steps and S is Speed expressed as
RPM*10.
That is why I am focusing on M55x commands, as that is what is causing the
puddle; not Prime. If it *were* Prime, there would be a puddle on*every* layer.
That is not the case. The upper part of the print is fine, with the
exception of the reported gaps that are caused by too little Prime.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6963#msg6963>
« *Reply #171 on:* October 28, 2013, 02:15:17 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6963;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6949#msg6949>
Here are the files. I am more concerned with what I don't see changing
than with what cubeit is changing.
The
15mmx15mmcube_75PS_value_cubeit_output.txt
and
15mmx15mmcube_INI File modified.txt files
are the same file.
Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6949#msg6949>
the prints came out exactly the same, and commenting out the mod in the ini
file doesn't seen to do anything to the output. I am wondering what you
think of the M227 lines on the standared BFB output I see vs the cubit
output?
See the response to bkjnky.
Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6949#msg6949>
Straight BFB file
M551 P32000 S900 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222 later in the file several times
*Cubeit Output file, with and without M55 line commented out*
M551 P1500 S150 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222
Edit the KS file, putting the M551 P1500 S150 line in place of M551 P32000
S900.
The former is 1500 stepper steps at 15 RPM, the latter is 32,000 stepper
steps at 90 RPM.
Leave the M227 lines alone for now. They are irrelevant to the puddling.
What is odd to me is that there are two temperature commands: M104 S230 and
M109 S230. This is redundant. M104 changes temp without waiting. M109
changes temp and waits for the target to be reached. Are both M104 and M109
in your Select Extruder G-code tab?
Nuke both of the:
M109 Snnn
lines and the second
M227 S2222 P2222
line and see if there is a change in the operation.
If this is PLA, 230 is too high, at least for the filaments I use; whether
BfB or NatureWorks. Standard for BfB is 195. NW prints well between 185 and
205. Rarely go to 215. To keep things simple during these tests, set the
First Layer Temp to the same as Material Temp. Elevated First Layer is just
complicating things. Keep It Simple. Get fancy later.
Compare my calibration slice to yours. Don't try to run it. My Z-height
setting is different from yours.
[image: *] box-halfinch-test.bfb<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2526> (4.82
kB - downloaded 8 times.)
« *Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 03:38:44 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6982#msg6982>
« *Reply #172 on:* October 29, 2013, 07:31:04 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6982;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Attempted changes recommended.
The M551 command seems to control the purge at the wiper.
Tried setting M551 P1500 S150 to M551 P27 S150 - Resulted very short purge
at wiper, same puddle at first print point.
Set temp to 200
Set M551 P1500 S150 and modified M227 S2222 P2222 to M227 S2222 P27 -
Resulted in normal purge, no puddle. Seems to have about 2mm of ooze at
nozzle as it comes across build platform. Print resulted in slight gaps in
wall on starting corner, corner 2 and corner 4
it almost acts as though there is not suck happening after the purge.
Can you take a look at the attached images of my settings, could this be
the cause of the redundant M104 commands?
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2529;image>
[image: *] deselectExtruder.PNG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2529> (13
kB, 541x272 - viewed 14 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2531;image>
[image: *] SelectExtruder.PNG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2531> (14.07
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6984#msg6984>
« *Reply #173 on:* October 30, 2013, 12:19:22 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6984;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
See? Gaps is due to not enough Prime compared to Suck. Let's focus on the
Purge and leave Prime out of it, please.
There should be zero ooze after leaving the wipe box, so something is not
right. Seems like this is the start of the puddle.
Yes, the Select/Deselect tabs are wrong. There are BfB and 5D portions in
the same code. Unless there is something of a hybrid going on, where CubeX
actually needs 5D, it should be wiped out. That doesn't explain where the
M109 Snnn is coming from, though.
My Select:
Quote
; Select and warm the (new?) extruder
M<EXT+1>04 S<TEMP>
; Purge
;M542
M55<EXT+1> P57000 S600
;M543
My Deselect:
Quote
; Retract
;M542
M56<EXT+1> P9600 S900
;M543
; Cool the (same) extruder
M<EXT+1>04 S<TEMP>
(M542 and M543 lines are commented out, as they are redundant on this
hardware.)
Do you see the differences in my calibration cube slice?
Still don't have the contents of the cubeit.ini file.
« *Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 12:26:39 AM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7002#msg7002>
« *Reply #174 on:* October 30, 2013, 06:37:45 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7002;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Would it help to see what Cubex generates? It seems that the latest
version (1.07) saves a copy of the Cubex file as a bfb file when it writes
the build file. I wonder if this is an error on their part....
I've attached a really simple STL file (modified automatically by Cubex,
hence the "rebuilt" ending in the name) along with the Cubex and the BFB
files that were created by Cubex V1.07. Perhaps by looking at the code it
is possible to figure out how they handle the prime and suck routines.
[image: *] helper disk large - 22mm (rebuilt).bfb<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2555> (55.21
kB - downloaded 6 times.)
[image: *] helper disk large - 22mm (rebuilt).stl<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2556> (12
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7015#msg7015>
« *Reply #175 on:* October 31, 2013, 05:40:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7015;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Hey guys... I've been off the grid for a while. CUBEIT will replace
any/all M55{x} command with whatever value you put in the INI file. If you
comment out the M55 command altogether, you will still get the default
value which was suggested waaaay back at the beginning of this thread. (I
did that so if someone inadvertently leaves out the INI setting altogether,
or damages their INI file, they still get the "suggested" value).
Apparently, the default bfb prime/purge command is way too long for the
cubex... Check the very earliest messages in this thread for more info...
You can change the M55x values to whatever you want in the INI file, it
will be set for all initial nozzle priming (initial purge) commands (M551,
M552, M553). Please note that this is ONLY for the initial Prime/purge of
the nozzles (to the waste bin) and should not effect any prime/suck
operations while the print is actually running. It just keeps the nozzle
from ejecting loads of material into the waste bin needlessly...
If anyone thinks this might be better handled in some other manner just let
me know!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7026#msg7026>
« *Reply #176 on:* October 31, 2013, 01:21:18 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7026;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Thanks for the clarification. That is what I've been trying to find out.
Let's keep the terminology clear, though. M55x handles *Purge*. It has
nothing to do with *Prime* at all. They are two separate functions.
Interchanging these terms by some has led to confusion and no solutions.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7027#msg7027>
« *Reply #177 on:* October 31, 2013, 01:23:10 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7027;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Is there a list with explanations for the g-code commands?
That would be awesome.
thank you.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7029#msg7029>
« *Reply #178 on:* October 31, 2013, 01:25:51 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7029;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Let me Google that for you: [image: ;)]
https://www.google.com/search?q=g-code+commands
« *Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 01:43:05 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7032#msg7032>
« *Reply #179 on:* October 31, 2013, 06:32:17 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7032;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 31, 2013, 01:21:18 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7026#msg7026>
Thanks for the clarification. That is what I've been trying to find out.
Let's keep the terminology clear, though. M55x handles *Purge*. It has
nothing to do with*Prime* at all. They are two separate functions.
Interchanging these terms by some has led to confusion and no solutions.
Great Scott! I have been geeking on this because I was mis-understanding
the terminology. So now that I am clear, I still seem to be getting the
nozzle ooze.
Do you think the solution is in the Purge command for this, or is it more
likely my temp? I have moved the temp down to 195 and still seem to be
getting the ooze, but upping m551 P1500 S+++ doesn't seem to help.
Update...
Settings at
M104 s185
M551 P1000 S1500
Still getting about 3mm of ooze at nozzle. I can see no difference in the
amount of ooze when M551 S150 or M551 S1500. Is there something I am
missing?
« *Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 07:29:22 PM by bkjnky* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7033#msg7033>
« *Reply #180 on:* October 31, 2013, 11:04:38 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7033;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I think the answer to the missing suck is:
^Firmware:V1.04
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:1
^MaterialLengthE1: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 200
G21
G90
M104 S200
M542
*M227 S63 P137M228 P0 S63*
M551 P1500 S150
M543
M108 S6.7
*M103*
I am not really sure why, but the M228 command has a reversed P&S as
compared to the M227 command
The M103 activates the M228 as the head moves towards the initial print
point initiating suck. [image: :o]
If anyone has ideas on this please let me know. It works, but I don't know
why...unless it's just a quirk built into the 3D*rip*S firmware...
I have attached the files in case someone else would like to test this out
on their CubeX machine to help verify the result.
Next question, if this does truly appear to be the answer, can we add this
into the post processing INI file that evanevery so excellently built?
[image: *] 15mmx15mmcube(1).bfb<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2566> (5.98
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7035#msg7035>
« *Reply #181 on:* November 01, 2013, 12:16:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7035;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on October 31, 2013, 06:32:17 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7032#msg7032>
but upping m551 P1500 S+++ doesn't seem to help.
That's because lowering it would.
Quote from: bkjnky on October 31, 2013, 06:32:17 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7032#msg7032>
Still getting about 3mm of ooze at nozzle. I can see no difference in the
amount of ooze when M551 S150 or M551 S1500. Is there something I am
missing?
Yes. Get a G-code manual. On M551, S = RPM * 10 so you're running the
extruder drive at 150 RPM!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7036#msg7036>
« *Reply #182 on:* November 01, 2013, 12:26:06 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7036;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on October 31, 2013, 11:04:38 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7033#msg7033>
I am not really sure why, but the M228 command has a reversed P&S as
compared to the M227 command
Huh? In the g-code list I have, M228 *disables* M227 and has no parameters.
Quote from: bkjnky on October 31, 2013, 11:04:38 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7033#msg7033>
The M103 activates the M228 as the head moves towards the initial print
point initiating suck.
This doesn't make any sense. M103 turns all the extruders off.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7037#msg7037>
« *Reply #183 on:* November 01, 2013, 05:16:49 AM »
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Quote from: PenskeGuy link=topic=689.msg7035#msg7035 date
Yes. Get a G-code manual. On M551, S = RPM * 10 so you're running the
extruder drive at 150 RPM!
My point exactly. No change even when extremely different.
Changing to the 551 P/S setting only changes the the amount purged (forward
feed) at the wiper as far as I can tell. By adding the M228 with a swapped
P/S order I'm getting a reverse at the extruder, but only when there is a
M103 command in place.
« *Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 05:23:25 AM by bkjnky* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7038#msg7038>
« *Reply #184 on:* November 01, 2013, 06:15:52 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7038;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Hey guys... I thought we cleared this up? The M55x commands (M551, M552,
M553) are not used to prime the nozzles during the print, they are just
used to purge the nozzles (to the waste bin) BEFORE the print starts. If
you guys are tinkering with the M55x settings in hope that it will change
how your extruders lay down material then I think you're wasting your
time... You can confirm this by noticing that the M55x commands only
appear at the very start of the print file - not during the print process.
If anyone sees/knows anything different, please let us know.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7039#msg7039>
« *Reply #185 on:* November 01, 2013, 06:29:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7039;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I'll also be quite happy to update the CUBEIT code if we need to swap or
modify the M227/228 commands (or tweak any other parameters as required).
However, I would suggest comparing the results of print files both with and
without MANUAL modifications (edits) before we choose to implement an
automatic tweak via CUBEIT. That way we can be sure the tweaks are valid
before they are automated. We obviously also need to be able to understand
and describe specifically how a command (or set of commands) needs to be
tweaked so it can be applied programmatically.
Standing by for suggestions...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7040#msg7040>
« *Reply #186 on:* November 01, 2013, 09:26:53 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7040;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Hey guys, this is a bit off topic, but it is news for CubeX owners. A new
modeler from 3DSystems, called Cubify Design, has been released and it
being marketed as the next step up from Cubify Invent on their web site.
This is a lie. Everyone should know up front that Cubify Design will NOT
import files you've previously created with Cubify Invent. Seriously.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7041#msg7041>
« *Reply #187 on:* November 01, 2013, 12:59:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7041;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on November 01, 2013, 06:29:31 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7039#msg7039>
I'll also be quite happy to update the CUBEIT code if we need to swap or
modify the M227/228 commands (or tweak any other parameters as required).
So what is M228, if not Disable M227?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7042#msg7042>
« *Reply #188 on:* November 01, 2013, 01:03:16 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7042;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I have no idea...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7043#msg7043>
« *Reply #189 on:* November 01, 2013, 01:13:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7043;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on November 01, 2013, 05:16:49 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7037#msg7037>
My point exactly. No change even when extremely different.
Well, my point is that 90 RPM on a 3DT lead screw drive is pretty darn
fast. The difference in throughput on a CubeX is significantly greater, due
to the difference between the pitch of the lead screw per turn on a 3DT and
the circumference of the CubeX hobbed wheel on a CubeX. There is probably a
maximum limit to the RPM setting and 150 is way over it, so no change. If
the Gain is set at 0.0225 for a CubeX, and remains at 1.0 for a 3DT, you
can see what I'm talking about as to difference in measurements.
Quote from: bkjnky on November 01, 2013, 05:16:49 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7037#msg7037>
Changing to the 551 P/S setting only changes the the amount purged (forward
feed) at the wiper as far as I can tell.
Correct.
Quote from: bkjnky on November 01, 2013, 05:16:49 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7037#msg7037>
By adding the M228 with a swapped P/S order I'm getting a reverse at the
extruder, but only when there is a M103 command in place.
Wait... you *added* M228? From where?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7044#msg7044>
« *Reply #190 on:* November 01, 2013, 01:14:34 PM »
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Quote from: evanevery on November 01, 2013, 01:03:16 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7042#msg7042>
I have no idea...
Ok, good. I thought I was losin' it.
The only commands that I know reverse the drive are Mx02, M56x and (for
automatic destring) M227 (but those are limits, not commands to do
so--commands to destring according to those limits are triggered by
M103/M101.
« *Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 01:21:46 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7055#msg7055>
« *Reply #191 on:* November 03, 2013, 05:33:28 PM »
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Quote from: PenskeGuy on November 01, 2013, 01:13:54 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7043#msg7043>
Wait... you *added* M228? *From where*?
He may have used a "text editor".
I'll google it for you [image: ;)]
https://www.google.com/#q=text+editor
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7060#msg7060>
« *Reply #192 on:* November 03, 2013, 06:53:40 PM »
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I know full well how to edit a G-code file and what applications to use to
do it. [image: :o] And, I didn't say "how?" I said "from where?". What I
mean is: "Where did the M228 Pxx Sxx command come from in the FIRST place
that got edited in?" BECAUSE, M228 has no P/S parameters that I know of and
only disables M227 if it is input.
« *Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 06:59:47 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7073#msg7073>
« *Reply #193 on:* November 04, 2013, 06:33:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7073;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
If you look at the output of Cubex Slicer, every "extruder select" routine
includes the following code:
M104 S250 P1
M542
M104 S250
M551 P284 S80.000
M227 P284 S300
M228 P0 S284
M543
M108 S25
M103
Notice that M227 is followed by M228 and M228 has a P and S parameter. My
research so far agrees with yours that M228 doesn't normally have
parameters and seems counterintuitive. Bkjnky shows and discusses all of
this in post #180.
So the question becomes "what do the Cubex Slicer programmers know about
the Cubex that we don't know?"
The question for us is "how does this code work with the machine?" and "Do
we need to modify the output of Kisslicer/Cubeit?"
I know that Bkjnky is working on this now. I'm sure others are too. I
will be working on it as soon as I can get back to my machine.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7074#msg7074>
« *Reply #194 on:* November 04, 2013, 07:28:06 PM »
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No, the real question (rhetorical) is: "What do the CubeX Slicer
programmers know about anything?" I mean, just look at the number of
complaints about crappy prints.
As evidenced by looking at that code block, it's garbage.
- M104 S250 P1 - set extruder 1 temp (no idea what P1 is there for)
- M542 - enter the wipe box
- M104 S250 - set extruder 1 temp again (because we Borked it the first
time)
- M551 P284 S80.000 - Prime extruder 284 steps @ 8 RPM
- M227 P284 S300 - set Prime and Suck values (after the Prime already
happened) P & S are reversed
- M228 P0 S284 - disable M227 P/S value settings (why?) no idea what P &
S are there for
- M543 - exit the wipe box
- M108 S25 - set extruder 1 to 2.5 RPM
- M103 - turn all extruders off
Are ya kiddin' me!? Now, granted, with their screwed up mindset of
proprietary everything, the firmware has a very good probability of being
so screwed around that it will take reverse engineering to learn what they
are doing with non-standard codes. Heck, there are plenty of numbers
unused. Assign something to them, instead of messing with ones that are
standard. Of course, that would be logical.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7100#msg7100>
« *Reply #195 on:* November 07, 2013, 05:52:45 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7100;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Ok so I am going down another road now. I've ordered new arduino board,
ramps and LCD. I like the chassis, but I'm tired of all this proprietary
garbage...new guts, new problems, but at least I can modify to correct
without having to guess at cause and effect
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7104#msg7104>
« *Reply #196 on:* November 08, 2013, 01:39:34 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7104;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
A better plan. I've long been considering replacing the board on my 3DT
after this Big Job has been completed. The 3DT is quite a more capable and
workable machine than the CubeX, from which the latter sprang, but there is
still room for improvement.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7140#msg7140>
« *Reply #197 on:* November 13, 2013, 10:34:24 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7140;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
CubeX fully disassembled. Waiting on new PSU. Arduino,shield and ramps
1.4 ready to go. Thinking marlin firmware due to need for setting E1 to
power 2nd Y axis stepper...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7144#msg7144>
« *Reply #198 on:* November 14, 2013, 10:43:40 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7144;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Let me know how this goes, I just fully disassembled mine thinking about
reverse engineering some of the feed counter stuff but at this point I
think I might just prefer new guts.
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Prime, Suck, and Puddles<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7162#msg7162>
« *Reply #199 on:* November 15, 2013, 09:57:07 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7162;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I found a solution to the Prime, suck, and puddles issue.
Put the M227 line in front of M551.
M104 S230
M542
M227 S1481 P2963
M551 P600 S80.000
M543
M106
M108 S8.4
G1 X-36.73 Y-11.47 Z1 F12000
G1 X-36.73 Y-11.47 Z0.75 F210
M101
You can now put in any value you want for Prime and Suck and you will not
get a puddle at the beginning of the print. The example above is a prime
of 1 and a Suck of .5.
Why does this work?
Near the beginning of this thread someone posted a set of .ini files to
help cubex users get started (I'm sorry I don't remember who that was).
Those files had a prime of .05 and a suck of I think 1 (can't remember -
doesn't matter). People like me were too busy learning all this new stuff
to notice or worry about it yet. One day it came up and Penske pointed out
that a prime of .05 was really low compared to what most people are
running. So I (and others) tried a larger value like 1 and we got a large
puddle at the beginning of the print. Back to .05. Penske pointed out
(correctly) that this was really just a work around for a larger problem.
And it was not a very good work around because it really limits
flexibility. Unfortunately I was out of town then this came up and was not
able to work on it.
After about 2 dozen little test cubes I figured out what the machine is
doing. I make no assumptions as to why. This is just what I observed.
If you look at the output from Cubex Slicer they actually have the same
problem. However they start the first path of the first layer outside of
the part. This is an example of "what do they know that I don't know".
M227 Sxxx Pyyy sets suck and prime. M101 turn on the extruder and executes
the set amount of prime.
As the Cubex executes the G-code it sees the M227 and reads the values.
When it gets to the M101 it does NOT prime by the amount specified. It
primes by amount times 10! I don't know the exact number but it looks like
the puddle is about 10 times the size that it should be. Lets call this a
"super prime". This only happens on the first M101 following a new M227.
From now on M101 will prime the proper amount. This is why the problem
only occurs on the first layer and not the rest.
M103 and suck do not appear to have this feature/characteristic/bug.
If the value of M227 changes then the next M101 will execute another "super
prime".
Since this feature is not going away then lets at least move the super
prime away from the print. How about the waste bucket?
First I tried
M542
M551 P600 S80.000
M227 S1481 P2963
M101
M103
M543
Worked like a charm. The machine executes a super prime into the waste
bucket then prints normally.
Then it occured to me that M551 turns on the extruder. Maybe we can use
that to trigger the super prime. Worked like a charm with less code.
Sorry for the long post.
Hope this helps.
Bob
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6890#msg6890>
« *Reply #149 on:* October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6890;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
We are definitely seeing our Z-gap change as you had mentioned earlier in
this thread. We do have a bracket designed that will attach to the bed and
nudge a digital dial gauge so we can see where / if the Z-gap changes.
Fighting with ABS to get it printed square however.
I am also trying to find a good place to meter the reed switch, I have very
little faith in the accuracy of those switches. We also did design a
bracket for the back pedestal (for those with an aftermarket heated bed on
a Cubex) along with a nylon machine screw that will keep your magnet from
shifting. If anyone wants the .stl let me know.
As for ABS warping I have a few questions:
1) Already bugged 1looooooopy1 over email, he recommends the Kapton + ABS
slurry.
2) What ambient temperature should you be at? Does it matter? I am also
thinking of enclosing the Duo. We live in Canada, but not in an igloo. [image:
:)]
3) Does setting a 360 jitter change the warp? It's a theory of mine that
not starting in the same position each layer will help, as we noticed the
most significant warp was on the starting corner of our bracket.
4) Does *anyone* use a non-adhesive solution to warping?
CUBEX Bed stl<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7163#msg7163>
« *Reply #200 on:* November 15, 2013, 10:39:58 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7163;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I don't remember seeing this posted before. Sorry if it is a duplicate.
Attached are stl models of the cubex bed. I have included lines to
indicate the zones for each extruder. The lines shown are not "calibrated"
so please use them as a "loose" guide only.
Someone else already pointed out that the cubex table is off center from
Kisslicer. In their case the table is -35mm off in X. My table is off by
-25.26mm. This means the stl needs to be offset by the same amount.
Solidworks defaults to outputting an stl in positive space. In solidworks
to make the stl come out correctly you need to click options -> and check
"Do not translate stl output to positive space.
[image: *] Cubex Build Table No Offset.STL<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2608> (340.9
kB - downloaded 7 times.)
[image: *] Cubex Build Table -35.STL<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2609> (340.9
kB - downloaded 8 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7164#msg7164>
« *Reply #201 on:* November 15, 2013, 11:13:02 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7164;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
<----Please excuse the noob still trying to get his head around all this
stuff.
Would enabling the prime pillar help with the puddling? I realize you can
correct it by changing the code but I'm just curious if enabling prime
pillar would be an effective work-around as well. Thanks.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7165#msg7165>
« *Reply #202 on:* November 15, 2013, 11:24:03 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7165;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Placebo,
Excellent idea. I had not gotten around to trying out the prime piller.
Yes that will accomplish the same thing.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7166#msg7166>
« *Reply #203 on:* November 15, 2013, 11:35:39 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7166;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Thanks for the feedback bsmith. It's reassuring to know that I'm starting
to understand some of this stuff. Also thanks for pointing out the bed
offset, I hadn't noticed that until I read your post. Mine was also off by
-35mm X.
Boy I sure do suck at the anti-spam captcha's....
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Re: Prime, Suck, and Puddles<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7167#msg7167>
« *Reply #204 on:* November 15, 2013, 02:50:26 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7167;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on November 15, 2013, 09:57:07 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7162#msg7162>
If you look at the output from Cubex Slicer they actually have the same
problem. However they start the first path of the first layer outside of
the part. This is an example of "what do they know that I don't know".
Just some random extrusion on the way to the first layer start point or
something similar to a skirt?
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on November 15, 2013, 09:57:07 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7162#msg7162>
First I tried
M542
M551 P600 S80.000
M227 S1481 P2963
M101
M103
M543
Worked like a charm. The machine executes a super prime into the waste
bucket then prints normally.
Then it occured to me that M551 turns on the extruder. Maybe we can use
that to trigger the super prime. Worked like a charm with less code.
That has the "Ring of Truth". All the rest prior did not. Good goin'.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7168#msg7168>
« *Reply #205 on:* November 15, 2013, 03:50:59 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7168;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Not a skirt. Cubex slicer (CS) picks some point (there is probably some
formula behind it) maybe 10mm away from the start point if the print.
Executes a "super prime" and prints a single straight line to the start
point of the print. After the print is finished there is this thread to
trim off. It only does this once regardless of which materials were used
during the print.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7169#msg7169>
« *Reply #206 on:* November 15, 2013, 04:06:04 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7169;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Ok, that's what I figured. They print a default skirt function. It just
doesn't go all the way around the part. Looks from your analysis that it
can't be turned off; not that it is necessarily a bad thing, now that
you've developed a method to control it.
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Cubex Cartridges<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7170#msg7170>
« *Reply #207 on:* November 15, 2013, 05:27:31 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7170;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I don't remember seeing this posted before. Sorry if it is a duplicate.
You can run a Cubex Trio, firmware version 1.07(current) WITHOUT CARTRIDGES
by removing the Material declarations from the header.
The only header line required to load and run a program is the Firmware
line.
I have not figured out yet what if anything the DRM line does.
^Firmware:V1.07
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:7
^MaterialLength: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 200
^MaterialCodeE2: 208
^MaterialCodeE3: 255
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7176#msg7176>
« *Reply #208 on:* November 17, 2013, 07:32:28 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7176;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
A CubeX trio can print a .bfb (kisslicer) file (after CubeIt conversion),
with jet 3 without cartridge installed in bay 3. You still assign jet 3 and
color/filament type, but it prints ignoring if there is a cartridge in bay
3 or not. Seems to work only on jet 3 and only with .bfb file. Running
firmware version 1.07 or earlier.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7177#msg7177>
« *Reply #209 on:* November 17, 2013, 08:40:56 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7177;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
This is all really good news. I've been out of town for about a week. I
will be back late this next week. If you guys can lock down the necessary
logic updates to the BFB print files, I wll do my best to incorporate them
into the CubeIT code when I get back!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7223#msg7223>
« *Reply #210 on:* November 21, 2013, 09:37:56 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7223;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I have seen some slicing problems in some models and wondered if those are
software limitations or else?
The first example is the mask, where one surface printed all rough. You
could hear the print carriage go a little erratic when moving thru that
area. When I zoomed into the sliced model, you could see that the inner
loop is squiggly and not straight. The part was printed with 3 loops, but
when I set to 2 loops it still shows issue. The same surface on the
opposite side of the mask is smooth and the slicing shows smooth.
Attached are pictures of right (good) and left (bad) side of mask and a
slicing screen shot of right and left side. Attaching the .stl file in the
next post.
Also, for some other odd reason, the mask part finished and it thought it
was done when only 66.25mm into the print of the 150mm. ?? The printfile
had the code up to 150mm in it. ??
The other example is the vader head with a slice screen shot at the eye
area where the eye outline is all crazy.
Any thoughts?
thank you.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2638;image>
[image: *] mask left side.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2638> (502.21
kB, 1197x833 - viewed 22 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2640;image>
[image: *] mask right side.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2640> (583.61
kB, 1173x875 - viewed 22 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2642;image>
[image: *] mask left -bad.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2642> (390.66
kB, 1683x1029 - viewed 16 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2644;image>
[image: *] mask right -good.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2644> (234.04
kB, 1688x1036 - viewed 12 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2646;image>
[image: *] darth vader 2.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2646> (426.78
kB, 1686x1054 - viewed 15 times.)
« *Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 09:43:59 PM by 1looooopy1* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7224#msg7224>
« *Reply #211 on:* November 21, 2013, 09:39:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7224;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
This goes to prior post.
Mask .stl file attached.
[image: *] mask_clipped.stl<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2648> (97.8
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7227#msg7227>
« *Reply #212 on:* November 22, 2013, 06:58:05 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7227;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I am still fighting some issues with printing via kisslicer. I don't think
they are problems with the utility, but rather a settings issue. I have
been out of town for a couple of weeks so have not had a chance to continue
my testing. I do think one of the issues I am seeing may be due to using
the default kisslicer prime/suck settings (.05/1 if i remember correctly).
My last print (20% fill) had virtually no internal structure (narrow width)
as I think the imbalanced suck operations were starving the print head. I
know we've had some discussion about this and I will be testing 0.75/0.75
when I get a chance...
It would REALLY be great if we (as a community) could all be working with
the same baseline kisslicer settings as we move forward. Perhaps a
comprehensive running list of settings that we can all use as a reference.
I would expect a single baseline should suffice for everyone. It sounds
like we are not there yet. Screen shots are complete but are rather
tedious to process. We could also exchange INI files, but then that would
lead to a lot of searching and comparisons to see if anything had actually
changed or evolved. A table of parameters would be better to use as a
common reference as we would have immediate textual display of the info we
are looking for. Personally, I think a standardized table which included
all settings for both PLA and ABS would be helpful. I'm still getting
caught up on a bunch of stuff, but I will try to post something as a
starting point as I find time to get the info together...
Where are we on the cartridge dependencies? If we pull the material
settings out of the header of the BFB file can we run with whatever
filament we want? Has anyone tested or confirmed this? I'm tired of
buying overpriced filament and then continually having to crack open the
cartridges to try and unbind the filament as it continually locks up, kills
my print, and wastes my time. It would be easy enough for me to remove any
material dependencies from the CubeIt code if this truly is a working
solution moving forward. There would also be some additional logic and
interface changes to CubeIt, but the first step is to confirm that this is
truly a workable solution. The header in the CubeIT output BFB file can
easily be edited with a text editor to check if this is workable. Again,
as I have time I can test this, but I am curious if our community has
already confirmed this to be a workable solution...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7228#msg7228>
« *Reply #213 on:* November 22, 2013, 07:20:26 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7228;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Loopy,
Can you post your settings? I just tried your mask_clipped.stl with the
settings visible in your jpgs and of course it sliced fine for me. When I
review the path's the perimeters appear symmetric on both sides. If you
want to post (or PM) your .ini files I will duplicate your setup this
weekend and look at it.
Bob
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7229#msg7229>
« *Reply #214 on:* November 22, 2013, 07:22:10 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7229;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on November 22, 2013, 06:58:05 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7227#msg7227>
I'm tired of buying overpriced filament and then continually having to
crack open the cartridges to try and unbind the filament as it continually
locks up, kills my print, and wastes my time.
X2. I just opened a brand new ABS yellow and got a filament flow error
within 30 minutes of my first print. Cracked the case so I could run it on
the filament spool holder I printed but that didn't work cause the
cardboard spool came apart where it is glued at the core. I wish I could
say this is the first time this has happened but sadly it has happened way
too many times. Going forward I will NOT be buying anymore of the horribly
designed crappy cartridges. I will downgrade firmware to 1.04 if that is
what I need to do to be free of that frustration.
I'm on board for collaborating settings used on the cubex. I'm admittedly
way behind most of you here so I have just been using what others have
already posted. Like the ones in this post by printman on the google groups
board:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/cubex-3d-printing/4bkFDsqsINg
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7230#msg7230>
« *Reply #215 on:* November 22, 2013, 07:45:26 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7230;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Evan,
I'm probably going to regret saying this out loud, but right now my Cubex
Trio / Kisslicer is running great! I am getting decent and consistent
results. CAVEAT! I am not printing as big and complex models as other
people are. I think I am down to working out Temperature, Flow tweak,
moisture, and to a lesser extent prime and suck.
Right now I am using Prime=0.2 and Suck=0.1. My machine seems to like a
ratio of about 2:1. It works, its consistant (for both pla and abs) but
not perfect yet.
I am working on sending you some emails this weekend with basically some
info should you decide to update CubeIt.
I am running ABS without cartridges now because of jamming issues.
I would also like to hear if anyone else has tried removing the material
statements and run without cartridges.
Bob
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7231#msg7231>
« *Reply #216 on:* November 22, 2013, 08:07:03 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7231;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
So, you're saying that you can confirm that you can run Kisslicer BFB print
files through CubeIt, manually remove the material codes in the resulting
header, and then print with whatever filament you want? Firmware v1.07?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7232#msg7232>
« *Reply #217 on:* November 22, 2013, 08:46:15 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7232;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Yes. That's what I was trying to say in post #207 but I may not have said
it very well.
You can test this easily.
Generate a program and edit out all of the material statements.
Pull out all of the cartridges loaded on the machine about an inch. They
are still resting in the slots, just not on the contacts.
Now check the cartridge info. All three slots should show "cartridge not
found".
Run your program
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7233#msg7233>
« *Reply #218 on:* November 22, 2013, 09:37:30 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7233;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
That's really great! This will change much of the logic in CubeIt
(simplify it greatly). This means CubeIT will not have to track material
info at all. I will consider the specifics as time becomes available.
Although I now have quite an investment of CubeX cartridges, at least this
would give us the option of manually unwinding and respooling the CubeX
filament onto generic spools which actually rotate and feed properly...
Hopefully the printing process will then become less hit and miss wrt to
filament jams!
Woo Hoo!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7234#msg7234>
« *Reply #219 on:* November 22, 2013, 10:06:18 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7234;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I would like to submit a standard listing of parameters for the CubeX
STYLES, MATERIALS, and PRINTER Info. The values in the list below are what
I currently have for my system. I am NOT claiming that any/all of these
are the optimum baseline for our systems, but I would like to see if we can
first agree that this is an acceptable list of parameters for us to work
with.
If we can get some consensus that this text format is reasonable (easily
read and applied to the software), all salient CubeX specific
characteristics are covered, and that there is not TOO much data to dilute
the important details (do we need STYLES?), maybe then we can work toward
addressing the actual settings in this list.
The end game here would be a nice concise list of settings that would
ultimately become a well established baseline for the CubeX printer and its
associated materials (both ABS and PLA). Easily Read, Discussed, and
Applied without having to jump between someones INI files, anothers screen
shots, and someone elses text listings. (No offense intended to anyone
participating in this discussion - just trying to expedite some common
ground for further discussion...)
Here is my starting point. (I specified "Courier" for the "Font Face" used
below as it will provide a fixed pitch font for easy column alignment).
Comments are appreciated:
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STYLE: CubeX - Solid Infill - 0.25 Layer
--------------------------------------
Skin Thickness: 1
Number of Loops: 1
Stacked Sparse Infill: 1
Inset Surface: 0
Infill%: 100
Infill Style: N/A
Extrusion Width: 0.5
Infill Extrusion Width: 0.5
Layer Thickness: 0.25
Loops go from Inside: Disable
Wipe: Enable
De-String: Enable
Seam Hiding: 1.0
Jitter: 0
STYLE: CubeX - 20% Infill - 0.25 Layer
--------------------------------------
Skin Thickness: 1
Number of Loops: 2
Stacked Sparse Infill: 1
Inset Surface: 0
Infill%: 20
Infill Style: Rounded
Extrusion Width: 0.5
Infill Extrusion Width: 0.5
Layer Thickness: 0.25
Loops go from Inside: Disable
Wipe: Enable
De-String: Enable
Seam Hiding: 1.0
Jitter: 0
STYLE: CubeX - Solid Infill - 0.10 Layer
--------------------------------------
Skin Thickness: 1
Number of Loops: 1
Stacked Sparse Infill: 1
Inset Surface: 0
Infill%: 100
Infill Style: N/A
Extrusion Width: 0.38
Infill Extrusion Width: 0.38
Layer Thickness: 0.1
Loops go from Inside: Disable
Wipe: Enable
De-String: Enable
Seam Hiding: 1.0
Jitter: 0
STYLE: CubeX - 20% Infill - 0.10 Layer
--------------------------------------
Skin Thickness: 1
Number of Loops: 2
Stacked Sparse Infill: 1
Inset Surface: 0
Infill%: 20
Infill Style: Rounded
Extrusion Width: 0.38
Infill Extrusion Width: 0.38
Layer Thickness: 0.1
Loops go from Inside: Disable
Wipe: Enable
De-String: Enable
Seam Hiding: 1.0
Jitter: 0
--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
Material: CubeX ABS
--------------------------------------
Diameter: 1.7
Temp
Main: 255
1st Layer: 265
Keep-Warm: 150
Bed: 0
DeString
Prime: .75
Suck: .75
Wipe: 10
Speed: 15
Min Jump: 1
Trigger: 100
Fan/Cool
Loops: 100
Inside: 0
Cool: 100
Fan Z: 0
Min Layer: 10
Flow Adjust
Flow Tweak: 1.1
Min: 0.01
Max: 10
Misc
Z-Lift: 0
Warm Time: 0
$/CM3: 0
Material: CubeX PLA
--------------------------------------
Diameter: 1.7
Temp
Main: 195
1st Layer: 210
Keep-Warm: 150
Bed: 0
DeString
Prime: .75
Suck: .75
Wipe: 10
Speed: 15
Min Jump: 1
Trigger: 100
Fan/Cool
Loops: 100
Inside: 0
Cool: 100
Fan Z: 0
Min Layer: 10
Flow Adjust
Flow Tweak: 1.1
Min: 0.01
Max: 10
Misc
Z-Lift: 0
Warm Time: 0
$/CM3: 0
--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
Printer: CubeX
--------------------------------------
Hardware
Extruders: {1/2/3 As Appropriate}
InFill Overlap: 0.50
Bed Size: 275 x 265 x 240
$/Hour: 0
Bed Center X: 0
Bed Center Y: 0
Bed Roughness: 0
Z-Settle: 0.25
Z-Offset: 0
Bed STL Model: {none}
Firmware
Firmware Type: Bits From Bytes Printers
File Extension: bfb
Mark Path: None
Include Comments: Enable
Fan On: M106
Fan Off: M107
Fan PWM: Enable
Post-Process: CUBEIT.EXE "<FILE>" {material ID Nozzle
1},{material ID Nozzle 2},{Material ID Nozzle 3}
Extruders
Each Extruder
Material: {PLA / ABS As Appropriate}
Gain: 0.0225
Axis: E
Extruder Mapping: {As Appropriate}
Speed
Fast
Perimeter: 20
Solid Infill: 30
Sparse Infill: 30
Precise
Perimeter: 10
Solid Infill: 15
Sparse Infill: 30
XY Travel Speed: 200
Z Speed: 3.5
1st Layer Max Speed: 15
Limit Increase: 50
XY Accel: 1500
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7237#msg7237>
« *Reply #220 on:* November 22, 2013, 11:45:56 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7237;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Would it be helpful if we all used the same test part to print with various
settings.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7238#msg7238>
« *Reply #221 on:* November 22, 2013, 12:16:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7238;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I can also confirm that removing the material statements works. The only
statement I leave in is the firmware one. The rest I edit out just using
Notepad. It works great without any cartridges installed (all three bays
work this way on the Treo) and I think this is really a game changer.
This is on V1.04, but I believe it also works on V1.07 (from a previous
post here).
I am still having some challenges with support structures and blobs
building up on them. Eventually one of the unused printer tips knocks off
the supports when they get high enough in the build structure. this may be
related to the prime/suck function. It is still not perfect.....
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7243#msg7243>
« *Reply #222 on:* November 22, 2013, 03:18:22 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7243;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: WarrenE on November 22, 2013, 12:16:23 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7238#msg7238>
I can also confirm that removing the material statements works. The only
statement I leave in is the firmware one. The rest I edit out just using
Notepad. It works great without any cartridges installed (all three bays
work this way on the Treo) and I think this is really a game changer.
This is on V1.04, but I believe it also works on V1.07 (from a previous
post here).
I am still having some challenges with support structures and blobs
building up on them. Eventually one of the unused printer tips knocks off
the supports when they get high enough in the build structure. this may be
related to the prime/suck function. It is still not perfect.....
Can someone please post an example of what needs to be removed in regards
to material statements?
Would it be this?:
material_name = PLA - CubeX
; g_code_matl = 3B204D617962652073657420736F6D65206D6174657269
; 616C2D737065636966696320472D636F64653F
Thanks.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7244#msg7244>
« *Reply #223 on:* November 22, 2013, 04:04:27 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7244;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
As an example from the start of an original BFB file loaded into Notepad:
^Firmware:V1.07
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:1
^MaterialLengthE1: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 200
G21
G90
M104 S230
M542
M551 P1500 S150
M543
T0
M109 S230
M227 S2963 P148
M108 S36.3
Delete the following:
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:1
^MaterialLengthE1: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 200
You then save the file, and print....
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7245#msg7245>
« *Reply #224 on:* November 22, 2013, 04:10:08 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7245;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Thank you Warren!!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7250#msg7250>
« *Reply #225 on:* November 23, 2013, 02:43:28 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7250;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Another confirmation. Firmware 1.07 No cartridges installed. Delete
material lines using notepad, Save. No problem printing!!!! [image: :)]
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7251#msg7251>
« *Reply #226 on:* November 23, 2013, 03:25:44 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7251;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Dontcha just love it when an elegant workaround is found that defeats the
complex blocks that companies like they try to put up in order to force you
into their business model? No doubt, once this leaks out, there will be
forthcoming firmware "upgrades" that have new features that everyone wants
but defeats this simple loophole; which it the actual intention.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7253#msg7253>
« *Reply #227 on:* November 24, 2013, 09:47:13 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7253;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
This is great. Not only does KISSLICER make better prints, it also enables
a complete bypass of the proprietary cartridge problem!
I'm working some test prints now and have confirmed the "puddle" issue when
the default prime and suck have changed. I have also confirmed the ability
to move the M227 GCODE command to a location just before the initial purge
command over the waste bucket. Obviously, I will work this into the next
version of CubeIt. Considering the ability to use multiple nozzles in a
print (can't use a nozzle specific command as a place finder), and the
associated logic implement this change, I think the best way to describe
the modification (as would be implemented in code or by hand) is as follows:
- Simply find the first (and hopefully only) M227 command in the BFB file,
and relocate/move it to just after the "Enter Wipe Area" command (M542) at
the top of the file.
I believe the above is the simplest way to describe (and implement) the
change. Any objections? Additionally, the default PURGE command we
override in the CubeIt.ini file ("M55=") may need to be reduced by a factor
of 10 to minimize waste if that is the appropriate multiplier. This should
not effect the print quality (or program logic) though, so we can worry
about that later.
So, here is my list of updates which need to be worked into CubeIt:
1. Eliminate Material Codes and Dependencies from Print File Header and
Program Logic
2. Relocate the M227 (Prime/Suck Spec) to just before the initial purge
command (M55X)
Anyone have any other suggestions?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7255#msg7255>
« *Reply #228 on:* November 25, 2013, 12:37:47 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7255;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
OK - Here we go... *I have attached an updated version of CubeIt.* Please
read all of the following info before you deploy the new version. We are
attempting to do as much as possible with KISSLICER and ONLY do stuff with
CubeIt if it can NOT be accomplished within KISSLICER. (No need to
reinvent the wheel..)
*** I have included my Materials, Styles, Printers, and Supports INI's in
this distro. Please be careful not to unpack the archive on top of your
existing files if you do not want to replace them! Extracting to a temp
folder (and then moving the files) is recommended. I'm not done tweaking
all the associated settings in these files, but the required changes are
already implemented in them.
Removing the material dependencies and logic from the original CubeIt file
has simplified the code greatly. *This also allows us to use KISSLICER to
generate unencrypted CubeX bfb print files which bypass the requirement to
use expensive and problematic proprietary filament cartridges! (Even with
Firmware v1.07!)* With the beneficial removal of any material and nozzle
dependencies, there really is no longer any need for a CubeIt user
interface. The latest version is simply used as a KISSLICER Post Processor
(it is called from within KISSLICER).
*For those that have been following along:* The only real work left for
CubeIt is to relocate the Prime/Suck settings (M227) to run immediately
before the associated nozzle purges (M55x) are done to the waste bin.
(This needs to be done to prevent the "Puddle" issue seen by folks when
modifying the default Suck/Prime setting in KISSLICER - you can find more
info about this behavior a couple of messages back in this thread). CubeIt
simply watches for any M542 (move to waste bin) commands, then does a quick
look ahead to find the next associated M227 command and moves it up to just
after the M542 command (and before the upcoming M55x command). We can do
the required CubeX header prepend directly from KISSLICER (PREFIX) rather
than using CubeIt. (All we need, and all we *want*, to prepend is the
"^Firmware" setting). Similarly, we can append any optional cleanup code
from KISSLICER as well (POSTFIX). CubeIt still cleans out any blank lines
and comments as required - so feel free to leave them enabled for
troubleshooting if you want to look back at the original print file (*.bak).
*In order to use KISSLICER and CUBEIT, please do the following:*
* Copy the CUBEIT.EXE and CUBEIT.INI file from the attached archive into
your KISSLICER program directory.
(The CUBEIT.INI file is actually optional but allows you to override and/or
augment some of the KISSLICER behavior. I don't recommend using the INI
settings unless you know exactly what you are doing (the file is not even
required). Its not a requirement for the operation of the program...)
You can use the _PRINTERS.INI file in the attached archive to get started.
(Note that I have only 2 Extruders in my CubeX). If you wish to update
your settings by hand, here are the salient (CubeX specific) settings as
made through the KISSLICER user interface. I like to leave the comments
and spaces in place as CubeIt will clean them up anyway. It can make
reading the original source file (*.bak) a little easier. Anyway:
* Enable the CUBEIT post-processor in KISSLICER by adding the following
command to the PRINTER -> FIRMWARE -> Post-Process Field:
CUBEIT.EXE "<FILE>"
* Set PRINTER -> FIRMWARE -> FIRMWARE TYPE: Bits From Bytes Printers
* Set PRINTER -> FIRMWARE -> FILE EXTENSION: bfb
* Set PTR G-CODE -> PREFIX: (Add the proprietary CubeX "^Firmware" setting)
*^Firmware:V1.07*
; [mm] mode
G21
; absolute mode
G90
* Set PTR G-CODE -> SELECT EXTRUDER: (Set Purge cmd (M55x) to "P600 S80"
and optionally delete unused "5D style" commands)
; Select extruder, warm, purge
; BfB-style
M<EXT+1>04 S<TEMP>
M542
M55<EXT+1> *P600 S80*
M543
* Set PTR G-CODE -> DESELECT EXTRUDER: (Optional: Delete unused "5D Style"
Commands)
; Guaranteed same extruder, cooling down
; BfB-style
M<EXT+1>04 S<TEMP>
* Set PTR G-CODE -> POSTFIX: (Optional: It was suggested to turn off all
extruders and cool them down - ala CubeX native operation)
*M103 M104 S0 M204 S0 M304 S0*
As you save your print file (*.bfb) from KISSLICER, CubeIt will
automatically run to post-process it. The original KISSLICER output file
will be saved as "*.bfb.bak" and you can copy the resulting "*.bfb" file
directly to your USB key, put it in the printer, select your file, and
print away! (You DO NOT want to rename the *.bfb file to *.cubex!)
I have not had a chance to run extensive testing on this latest version and
will be out of town for the Thanksgiving holiday (not checking email or the
forum). But I wanted to get this out before I left... I have run several
comparisons on the output and it looks like everything is working just
fine. However, if anyone notes any issues (particularly with the
"M542/M227" Logic), or has any additional suggestions for post processing,
please leave a note on the forum and I'll address them when I get back next
week!
Thanks to all the hard work and research folks have been doing and all the
feedback and info which is being supplied. Lets keep communication flowing
as we move forward with a much better (and non-proprietary) slicing
solution for our printers. Figuring out what needs to be done is the
tricky part but I think we are already in a really good place! I'll be
happy to keep updating and enhancing CubeIt as we move forward.
Maybe now we can spend more time actually printing instead of untangling
jammed printer cartridges and throwing away all those half-printed
objects. Save your money, save your time, save your plastic, and get much
better prints while doing it!
Have fun!
[image: *] CubeIt.zip<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2656> (304
kB - downloaded 66 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7256#msg7256>
« *Reply #229 on:* November 25, 2013, 02:23:16 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7256;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Good job.
One suggestion for clarity. The *"...optionally delete unused "5D style"
commands."* in Select and Deselect might be better written to avoid
misunderstanding. Yes, it is an "option" in the sense that not everyone
will have to deal with them. People who hit the G-code Defaults button
after having selected their BfB Firmware type and chose "Overwrite" will
not have 5D codes inserted. But, it is not an "option" to take them out. If
any 5D codes are there, they should be removed, because they will just
screw things up.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7257#msg7257>
« *Reply #230 on:* November 25, 2013, 02:34:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7257;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I've never "deselected" them (5D Style codes). They were always in my
print files. They didn't appear to cause any issues. It just appears they
are ignored. Is that NOT the case? What, specifically, are they for?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7258#msg7258>
« *Reply #231 on:* November 25, 2013, 04:20:01 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7258;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I just gave it a go made all the changes listed. I did not copy the other
files over( printer, material, ect). I went to print, my extruder never
went to the purge box and heated up, it went right to print. What did I do
wrong?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7259#msg7259>
« *Reply #232 on:* November 25, 2013, 04:36:55 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7259;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
It turns out that the Cubex ignores the 5D commands included in the default
Kisslicer setup (I thought this was kind of interesting). I also tried G2
and G3 but the program would not load (I was just messing around with stuff
so I may not have created the G2 and 3 lines correctly). Since the Cubex
never complained the issue never came up.
The excess commands do create a lot of clutter and can make debugging
problems (like M227 for instance) more difficult. With the changes above
Kisslicer is now putting out really clean Gcode (as far as I have figured
out). With one exception.
The codes in the Postfix tab are not necessary for the machine for the
machine to run correctly. When the firmware runs out of Gcode it parks the
head, and lowers the table. I'm sure that it also stops the encoders and
turns off the heaters. The Cubex Slicer includes these lines at the end of
its program. I liked the idea of a nice "clean" "defined" end to the
program so suggested it to Evan.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7260#msg7260>
« *Reply #233 on:* November 25, 2013, 04:38:05 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7260;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Joe,
Can you post your .bfb file?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7261#msg7261>
« *Reply #234 on:* November 25, 2013, 05:01:30 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7261;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I tried to modify my printer file by copy and paste. Not a good idea. I
used evanevery file. Seems to work now .
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7262#msg7262>
« *Reply #235 on:* November 25, 2013, 05:07:35 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7262;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I just tried the new Cubeit with 2 extruders. Works correctly.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7263#msg7263>
« *Reply #236 on:* November 25, 2013, 09:21:07 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7263;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on November 25, 2013, 02:34:39 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7257#msg7257>
I've never "deselected" them (5D Style codes). They were always in my
print files. They didn't appear to cause any issues.
Why give it the opportunity?
Quote from: evanevery on November 25, 2013, 02:34:39 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7257#msg7257>
It just appears they are ignored. Is that NOT the case? What,
specifically, are they for?
Uhhh, non-BfB printers? If they are irrelevant, seemingly ignored or not,
they should NOT be in there. May not show up *now* but, we're talking about
BfB/3D Systems, here. In other threads, people have blithely hit the
Defaults button, the BfB and 5D codes are combined and it's caused all
sorts of issues, some of which were difficult to sort out until there was
more information provided; not the least of which was not being able to use
any extruder other than the first, due to "T0" being in there.
If it isn't necessary, especially if it isn't compatible, delete it. There
isn't any point in asking for trouble. These systems are complex enough as
it is, without introducing a bunch of cruft into the code that is
specifically for *other than* BfB hardware/firmware.
« *Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 09:30:55 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7308#msg7308>
« *Reply #237 on:* November 29, 2013, 11:32:58 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7308;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I'm a total noob at this, so I'd really appreciate some advice. I've setup
KISS and I'm trying to print the "thin wall calibration", CubeX reads it
fine, starts printing the first layer OK (a little squished, still
struggling with the ideal Z-offset). However, when it starts printing the
second layer, the filament stops coming out of the nozzle. The print head
is moving as if printing (on all 3 axes), but nothing comes out!
At first I thought that the nozzle may be jammed, but after cleaning the
nozzle and repeating both the KISS sliced file and a previous one made in
cube's proprietary program (later successfully printing) it is obvious that
this was not a hardware issue.
Still waiting for my KSpro key, I presume that has nothing to do with my
issues... ? [image: :)]
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7309#msg7309>
« *Reply #238 on:* November 29, 2013, 11:54:11 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7309;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Ok,... maybe following someones pdf guide exactly "to the number" wasn't
the greatest idea..
When I set skin thickness to >0 it prints just fine. (the instructions said
0)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7314#msg7314>
« *Reply #239 on:* November 29, 2013, 02:38:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7314;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Following the directions is what should be done. For a Thin Wall, not
Solid, Calibration, the Skin Thickness should be "0" to remove the bottom
and top surfaces from a model that is solid and only print the vertical
walls. By setting Skin Thickness to ">0" you've masked over the real
problem. Just getting a positive result, by any means possible, doesn't
invalidate the instructions. It indicates something else.
There are a number of things that can cause this symptom. I'm wagering temp
too low or Prime/Suck improperly set. I've had instances where the nozzle
would clog just by touching it with a toothpick. The extrusion is chilled
just enough to impede the flow and the drive strips the filament; hosing
the print until I clear it and run a manual purge to get past the stripped
portion of the filament.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7316#msg7316>
« *Reply #240 on:* November 29, 2013, 04:14:35 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7316;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Welcome to the club!
Can you post your settings?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7321#msg7321>
« *Reply #241 on:* November 30, 2013, 05:57:48 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7321;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Penske, I didn't realize you were the author of the guide. Of course;
credit where it's due, good job!!
Instead of posting my settings just now, I'll do some more tweaking and
report on my progress. It's funny how obviously delicate the FDM process
is, and the manufacturer leaves us with a software that offers us a total
of like 10 possible settings combinations.. lol
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7322#msg7322>
« *Reply #242 on:* November 30, 2013, 07:47:35 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7322;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I've increased the temperature, so I'm finally getting a print after the
first layer, and looks kind of ok, but I'm getting small holes on the
walls, still playing with the prime/suck and flow tweaks, so far the
output's pretty much the same.. It prints, but it's definitely far from
perfect.
Is there a guide of some sort about the relationship between prime/suck and
other parameters? The cubeX is a pain, not having a direct computer to
printer connection..
I guess it's - no pain no gain.. [image: :)]
My settings, so far:
Extrusion width: 0.4 mm
Temp.: 210/210/150
Prime: 1-0.75
Suck: 0.75
Flow tweak: 1.1 - 0.85
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7323#msg7323>
« *Reply #243 on:* November 30, 2013, 11:53:02 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7323;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Everything's fine now, note to self: less posting, more tweaking!
My settings if anyone's interested:
material: PLA (white), Cube's proprietary filament (but not in its
cartridge, thankfully)
prime: 0.15
suck: 0.15
flow tweak: 0.95
temperature: 220/220/150
using .inis and cubeit from evanevery's latest post (thanks a lot, it works
like a charm)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7324#msg7324>
« *Reply #244 on:* November 30, 2013, 01:54:16 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7324;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Those values look about right.
Be aware that a TW/Solid calibration pair need to be done for every
material. Should be done for every new batch from the same manufacturer if
you want to eliminate variance in batches. Colors can influence the
parameters, so don't gloss over color variations from one manufacturer
until you've proven that the variance isn't significant and can be assumed
to be the same for all varieties.
Different manufacturers' filament can have a significant shift in the
temperature range center. BfB ABS is relatively high at 260C, while the
stock I get from ProtoParadigm centers at 230C. In all actuality, a
calibration should be done for every temperature within a given material as
well but, usually, once you find the center range for a given material, one
calibration per stock is enough.
« *Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 02:03:44 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7325#msg7325>
« *Reply #245 on:* November 30, 2013, 04:44:11 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7325;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Does the 3d Touch support different values for prime and suck?
The reason I ask is I don't think the Cubex does. I think the Cubex
ignores any value entered for suck and applies the value specified for
prime for both prime and suck.
On Wednesday I did a bunch of testing. I entered a prime of 0 and a suck
of 1 and observed the results. Then I entered a Prime of 1 and a suck of 0
and observed. My observations included the resulting test cube and
watching the extruder shaft (I had previously put marks on the shafts so I
could see them rotate).
So far I have only tested our current use of M227. Maybe there are other
commands or configurations that will allow different prime and suck (I just
haven't found them yet). Before I go too far down that rabbit hole I
wanted to see what the other machines do (3d touch, 3000, etc).
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7326#msg7326>
« *Reply #246 on:* November 30, 2013, 05:34:02 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7326;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Separately altering values on a 3DT does work, even though it does have a
firmware destring. It doesn't surprise me that 3DSystems goes further down
the path of thinking for their users. As a debugging step, try not setting
either of the P/S values at "0" but, instead, a really low value greater
than "0". Could be that "0" is ignored (*nobody* would ever set this value
to "0"!) and a substitution takes place.
« *Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 06:02:08 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7332#msg7332>
« *Reply #247 on:* December 02, 2013, 05:17:21 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7332;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Thank you very much for your great work! Without it our Cubex printer will
almost unusable!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7333#msg7333>
« *Reply #248 on:* December 02, 2013, 08:05:36 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7333;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
While its nice that everyone uses the same test cube as a common
foundation, certain issues may not be evident when using a single simple
model.
For instance, I see much more dependence on a proper prime/suck setting
when I am printing a relatively thin/narrow object with 20% infill. If
prime and suck aren't properly set, the very narrow internal fill structure
actually never gets implemented. By the time a low prime value catches up
with a larger suck setting, the nozzle is already done with the narrow fill
pattern. I'm now using 0.75/0.75 and I've eliminated the bulk of this
issue but I'm still not convinced I have an optimal setting (yet)...
I'm not sure that the cube is the best model to test prime/suck due to its
relative simplicity...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7340#msg7340>
« *Reply #249 on:* December 02, 2013, 01:59:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7340;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
It isn't. The calibration cubes are for calibrating steady flow
computation, not interruptions of same. I'm not even sure that there can be
a calibration test for P/S. There are too many variables in the de-string
section that influence the action. Making adjustments per-print will be
effective, due to these settings, but a calibration that is supposed to
span all instances, like extrusion volume does, is remote.
« *Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 02:04:07 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7341#msg7341>
« *Reply #250 on:* December 02, 2013, 02:37:16 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7341;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
all I can say ypu guys are amazing I am actually being able to use my cubex
kudos to kisslicer. now quick question I set my temperature to 270 target
but the read out say target 230 and temp 230 any suggestions
Tom
think I just found out the issue i have kisslicer running cubeit but it is
calling up my pla settings
« *Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 02:43:02 PM by treemagnet* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7342#msg7342>
« *Reply #251 on:* December 02, 2013, 02:46:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7342;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
CubeIt won't change your material temps. Make sure you are assigning the
proper nozzle in your Kisslicer extruder mapping...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7343#msg7343>
« *Reply #252 on:* December 02, 2013, 04:50:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7343;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
ok so where in the "brb" what sets the temperature or is it an m code
also is there a way of not having to enter the verification everytime you
post?
Thanks
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7344#msg7344>
« *Reply #253 on:* December 02, 2013, 05:38:17 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7344;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
ok so search before ask lol m104 is temp code. so I set the temperature on
one print and make a test file and then do a second print with a different
temp. when I compare them the M104 temps are the same and didn't change any
suggestions?
Thanks
Tom
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7345#msg7345>
« *Reply #254 on:* December 02, 2013, 06:03:38 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7345;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
After you post several times it will no longer ask for a verification...
The temps are set in Kisslicer. You do not need to edit anything in your
print files. Make sure your Materials (ABS, PLA) are defined with the
proper temps in the Kisslicer interface (Material Tab). Then specify which
materials are loaded in each extruder in your printer using the Kisslicer
Interface (Printer -> Extruders -> Material). Finally, be sure to map the
model to the proper extruder in the Kisslicer interface (Printer ->
Extruders -> Ext Map -> Object). This is all done with Kisslicer. You
should not have to even open your print file...
The only reason folks are editing their print files here is for testing
changes which can not (yet) be implemented either with Kisslicer or
CubeIt. I don't think we have identified anything new that fits that
description since our latest mods to Kisslicer settings and CubeIt ...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7346#msg7346>
« *Reply #255 on:* December 02, 2013, 06:07:21 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7346;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Might search for "Idiots Guide". It was a student project that a few of us
wrote for him/her and it covers the basics of operating KS.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7347#msg7347>
« *Reply #256 on:* December 02, 2013, 06:14:20 PM »
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Is anyone able to identify the thermistor used in the CubeX print heads? I
am working on a custom print head (based on Jhead) but don't have the
equipment to test resistance on the thermistor at specific temperatures.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7348#msg7348>
« *Reply #257 on:* December 02, 2013, 06:16:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7348;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
BTW... Great work to all of you that took the time to troubleshoot the
puddle issue!!!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7349#msg7349>
« *Reply #258 on:* December 02, 2013, 06:19:57 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7349;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
great thanks
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7350#msg7350>
« *Reply #259 on:* December 02, 2013, 06:37:31 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7350;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
figured out my problem it's my fingers
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7369#msg7369>
« *Reply #260 on:* December 04, 2013, 07:04:19 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7369;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Hi,
I'm new with the Kiss, I have cubex trio and start now with the free Kiss,
I'm waitting for KSpro.
How turn on the leds? Have a MCode?
Thanks
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Prime and Suck<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7371#msg7371>
« *Reply #261 on:* December 04, 2013, 08:03:25 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7371;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Hi,
Sorry for my english, i'm French ^^
Prime and suck value of 0.75 causes a problem on a Cubex. Every time the
nozzle back into the heating zone matter no longer flows properly at the
beginning of the next layer. matter seems not boot. slightly pushing the
filament from the cartridge that reboots. Suck function does not have to
take place at this momement but only the Prime function.
I hope you have understood my English ^ ^
« *Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 08:17:22 AM by teknbul* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7372#msg7372>
« *Reply #262 on:* December 04, 2013, 08:06:27 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7372;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Thanks to all who worked out the Kisslicer issues and special thanks to
evanevery for his work on CubeIt and posting settings for Kisslicer. I
just set up Kisslicer yesterday and ran a part and found the puddle issue.
Then applied evan's updates and it's working great now. Much improvement
over Cubex Slicer. Not to mention no more POS cartridges!!!!!!
I did have an issue maybe you guys can help me out here. While printing
yesterday (PLA Red) I would hear a snap/pop sound from the extruder and
noticed at the same time it would put a little void in the part. Now the
materail I'm using is 6-8 months old, could that be the cause? Or I was
thinking maybe I have the temp set too high @ 195 main, 210 first layer, &
150 keep warm? I'm running a cubex trio @ firmware 1.07, only using 1
extruder with the kisslicer. Also I have not tried ABS.
I attached a magnified picture.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2683;image>
[image: *] voids in PLA.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2683> (43.18
kB, 641x484 - viewed 23 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7373#msg7373>
« *Reply #263 on:* December 04, 2013, 08:39:04 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7373;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I have seen (and continue to experience) the exact same issues as seen in
your model. I have been experimenting with prime/suck settings to see if
this helps (currently at 0.75/0.75). My hopes in posting the text list of
settings (a bunch of messages back) was that we could all agree on the
salient setting so we could then move forward discussing the actual
individual settings that folks were using. Distributing INI files may be
useful, but for discussion, the parameters need to addressed individually.
Additionally, I'm not making any claims that the settings I have posted,
and the INI's that I have provided, are the optimum config.
I also get random voids in my models (I'm using abs) and I'm curious what
might cause this and what settings folks are using who do not experience
this...
Does anybody have a list of real good set of settings (for both ABS and
PLA) which they believe provides optimum printing? If so, how does that
compare to the list that I posted a ways back?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7374#msg7374>
« *Reply #264 on:* December 04, 2013, 09:23:04 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7374;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
First off, thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread,
particularly PenskeGuy and evanevery. The difference between using the
CubeX slicer and KS is night and day.
I have been looking at this layer gap issue for the last few days using a
thin wall calibration printing in CubeX PLA (blue) at 195C main and 210C
first layer. I can eliminate the gaps by changing the speed at which the
layers print. The print speed appears to need to be 40 mm/sec to print
without gaps. Print the same thin wall cal at 30 mm/sec and there will be
gaps, 40 no gaps.
Today I repeated this at 215C main and 230C 1st layer and got the same
results.
I looked at some of the files that were done with the CubeX slicer. When
the extruder is off, the print head moves at 500 mm/s. If the file was
written as a "Fast Draft," the print head moves at a maximum speed of 66
mm/s with the extruder on. If the file was written as a "standard" print
(with fine detail selected), the print head moves at a maximum speed of
38.3 mm/s with the extruder on.
This is all for a layer height of 0.25 mm.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7375#msg7375>
« *Reply #265 on:* December 04, 2013, 09:42:48 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7375;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote
"I looked at some of the files that were done with the CubeX slicer."
HI,
How you open the cubex files?
Thanks
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7376#msg7376>
« *Reply #266 on:* December 04, 2013, 09:43:22 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7376;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Are you saying that printing FASTER (or equal to) than 40 mm/sec will
eliminate the gaps? This seems counter intuitive...
I expect this means we will need to tweak the settings on the Kisslicer
Printer -> Speed page. My (default) settings have "Fast" = 20/30/30 and
"Precise" = 10/15/30.
Does anyone have any other (better) settings which will allow full use of
the Fast/Precise slider without compromising print integrity?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7377#msg7377>
« *Reply #267 on:* December 04, 2013, 09:48:11 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7377;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote
oes anyone have any other (better) settings which will allow full use of
the Fast/Precise slider without compromising print integrity?
HI,
I have in fast 20/35/30
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7378#msg7378>
« *Reply #268 on:* December 04, 2013, 10:01:42 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7378;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
If we really need to be printing at speeds between about 40 and 60 mm/sec,
then perhaps the following settings might be optimal:
Fast = 60/60/60
Precise = 40/40/40
I suppose we could run the infill's a little faster in the Precise mode,
but we are already well above the speeds in the default configurations.
Maybe a simple, across-the-board, speed setting for each group will work
fine.
It might also be appropriate to change the X,Y Travel speed to 500 (per
AeroJack's observation)...
Additionally, maybe we also need to adjust the first layer Max speed to 40
to meet these minimums.
Comments? I'm not currently anywhere near my equipment or I'ld simply run
another test.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7379#msg7379>
« *Reply #269 on:* December 04, 2013, 10:07:20 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7379;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Depends on the type of part you wish to make ... but I think it is very
fast, and thou shalt have problems, will have an identical print of Cubex
software [image: :(]
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7380#msg7380>
« *Reply #270 on:* December 04, 2013, 10:14:27 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7380;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: Tiago_Lopes on December 04, 2013, 09:42:48 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7375#msg7375>
Quote
"I looked at some of the files that were done with the CubeX slicer."
HI,
How you open the cubex files?
Thanks
The .cubex files are encrypted and I do not know how to read them. However,
there should be a corresponding .bfb file that is readable. That is what I
looked at.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7381#msg7381>
« *Reply #271 on:* December 04, 2013, 10:19:41 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7381;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 04, 2013, 09:43:22 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7376#msg7376>
Are you saying that printing FASTER (or equal to) than 40 mm/sec will
eliminate the gaps? This seems counter intuitive...
I expect this means we will need to tweak the settings on the Kisslicer
Printer -> Speed page. My (default) settings have "Fast" = 20/30/30 and
"Precise" = 10/15/30.
Does anyone have any other (better) settings which will allow full use of
the Fast/Precise slider without compromising print integrity?
Yes that is exactly what I am saying and I agree that it is counter
intuitive.
It could be particular to a thin wall calibration style print where only
the perimeter speed is used. Or it could be particular to my machine.
Where did the original speed values come from?
« *Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 01:05:39 PM by AeroJack* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7382#msg7382>
« *Reply #272 on:* December 04, 2013, 10:24:58 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7382;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I simply started with the default Kisslicer "sample printer" settings and
have been updating them as we find changes appropriate for the CubeX.
If faster printing solves these problems then thats certainly a win-win
situation. Even better prints in much less time!
I think we just need to establish the baseline print speed settings for the
CubeX printer. It seems you have provided info which puts us well on our
way. Thanks!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7383#msg7383>
« *Reply #273 on:* December 04, 2013, 11:18:01 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7383;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Cubex Slicer (CS) normally outputs an encrypted .cubex file. However v1.07
of CS has a bug which outputs a text readable .bfb file. Version 1.08 (the
current version) "fixes" this bug.
In CS v1.07 setup the part as usual. Click "Build". A .bfb file is
created in the same directory as the part file.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7385#msg7385>
« *Reply #274 on:* December 04, 2013, 11:28:20 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7385;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Can someone please post a very simple CubeX print file generated with
1.08. (Yes, I know its encrypted) I want to compare the binary output
with something from 1.07 (before I update anything)...
Also, Is there a corresponding 1.08 firmware update also available? Is
anyone using this? If so, can we get a solid confirmation that we can
update to 1.08 firmware and still use text based bfb files and
non-proprietary filament?
It would be good to know this before I, or anyone else, tries an upgrade...
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CUBEX / KisSlicer / CubeIt<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7386#msg7386>
« *Reply #275 on:* December 04, 2013, 11:48:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7386;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
@evanevery, and all the other 3d print masters here:
THANK YOU SO MUCH
for all yor great work you did! I've tried to print w/o the original
cartridges installed in their bays: works great! no puddle anymore!
... and so much better than the original trashware.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7387#msg7387>
« *Reply #276 on:* December 04, 2013, 12:03:34 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7387;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
In looking at a 1.07 BFB file, I am seeing many of the print commands with
an "F1000.0" speed parameter. This would indicate print speeds as low as
about 17 mm/sec (1000 mm/min / 60 = 16.77 mm/sec) in "Normal" (not draft)
mode....
I also see many print commands with an "F2300.0" parameter that would
equate to print speeds as high as 38 mm/sec.
So it seems the native CS prints between 17-38 mm/sec in "normal" mode...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7388#msg7388>
« *Reply #277 on:* December 04, 2013, 12:57:20 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7388;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Thanks all. @evanevery....I'm not trying to discredit the settings you
posted, I understand these are baseline settings. No worries. I just had
not seen any discussion on this so I was thinking it was just me. But it
sounds like a lot of you are finding the same issue. I did try ABS and
found the same issue....actually it was worse than the PLA.
I bumped up the speeds to 30/40/40 and am printing now in PLA. I would've
never thought this was a speed issue but I guess we'll see.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7389#msg7389>
« *Reply #278 on:* December 04, 2013, 01:05:56 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7389;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
No worries, that's not my perspective at all! I just want to make that
folks DONT think the setting I've posted are optimized - just mostly
functional. I really do want folks to provide more info so we can all work
together to establish a good working baseline for our printers.
It looks like, although 1.08 is the newest SOFTWARE, 1.07 is still the
current FIRMWARE:
http://cubex3dprinting.blogspot.com/2013/11/new-software-version-108.html
Hopefully, Cubify won't slam the door on us with 1.08! (No one in their
right mind would update if that was the case...)
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Gaps on Slow Feed Rate<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7392#msg7392>
« *Reply #279 on:* December 04, 2013, 01:37:27 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7392;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: AeroJack on December 04, 2013, 09:23:04 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7374#msg7374>
The print speed appears to need to be 40 mm/sec to print without gaps.
Print the same thin wall cal at 30 mm/sec and there will be gaps, 40 no
gaps.
Yes, it seems counterintuitive at first. Don't change the Fast/Slow speed
values themselves. They're probably fine. Changing them may "cure" the
problem but probably isn't the real problem.
KISSlicer calculates the required volumetric flow rate for a given path,
then computes the extruder RPM, and if it falls outside the min/max limits,
it will then change the head speed to make sure the RPM is within the
functional range.
Make adjustments to your Material > Flow Adjust > Min [mm^3/s] value. Try a
really low value at first to see what happens. There will be a value below
which the extruder flow rate will not be uniform, so 0 is not an ideal
value. On my 3DT, 0.15 seems about right. There are finite limits for each
material in both Min and Max and there are limits within each of those.
IOW, you can set the Min value too low and you can set the Min value too
high.
Note, also, that Min Layer Time can screw this up if the feed rate drops
lower than the Min mm^3/s calculates, due to a layer falling below that
minimum time limit.
Temperature will be a deciding factor on Max. It tales higher and higher
temperatures to be able to push a viscous fluid through a small hole at
greater speeds. The less viscous (thinner) it is, the easier to flow
through small orifices. Go too high in temp and you get ooze. Like
everything, there are limits. You just have to experiment to learn what
they are for your printer and materials.
« *Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 02:45:14 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7393#msg7393>
« *Reply #280 on:* December 04, 2013, 01:43:00 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7393;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: MattDub on December 04, 2013, 08:06:27 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7372#msg7372>
While printing yesterday (PLA Red) I would hear a snap/pop sound from the
extruder and noticed at the same time it would put a little void in the
part. Now the materail I'm using is 6-8 months old, could that be the
cause?
Moisture in the material boils and explosively exits the nozzle. PLA is
hygroscopic and must be kept in sealed containers with desiccant and/or
dried in a dehydrator prior to printing.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7394#msg7394>
« *Reply #281 on:* December 04, 2013, 01:47:15 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7394;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I'm running almost exclusively with ABS and I see the issue with random
voids as well...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7395#msg7395>
« *Reply #282 on:* December 04, 2013, 01:55:45 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7395;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Voids don't always have to do with moisture.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7396#msg7396>
« *Reply #283 on:* December 04, 2013, 02:28:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7396;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Particularly since AeroJack's posting where he said he was able to remedy
this issue by increasing the print speed...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7397#msg7397>
« *Reply #284 on:* December 04, 2013, 03:00:32 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7397;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I have an issue with a small part were at the beginning of each track there
is a gap. Observing the printer a while I got the imression that it is
starving. So I changed the prime/suck from 0.06/0.05 (M227 S148 P178) to
the values suggested by evanevery: 0.75/0.75 (M227 S2222 P2222).
However, this did not solve the problem.
I've tried a lot and ended up with M227 S0 P2222. Still not solving the
problem:
^Firmware:V1.07
G21
G90
M204 S265
M542
M227 S0 P2222
M552 P600 S80
M543
The whole time I had the impression that by changing the prime value I
adjusted the prime and suck process at the same time but never changed the
difference between them.
This was confirmed by the look at the injection steppers axle: it is doing
definitely a suck without a suck adjusted (suck=0.00)
does anyone have an idea what I'm doing wrong?
Thanx!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7398#msg7398>
« *Reply #285 on:* December 04, 2013, 05:05:01 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7398;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
E-Marc,
You're not doing anything wrong. See this post where I noticed the same
thing.
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7325#msg7325
I'm actually glad that you are seeing the same thing that I am.
I did some more testing yesterday, and I am convinced that the Cubex
firmware does not support different parameters for prime and suck. The
firmware reads the prime value from M227 and applies that to both prime and
suck.
I tried Penske's suggestion of using a non-zero values.
I tried moving the M227 "back where it belongs". I tried large prime low
suck, and low prime large suck. My observations included the resulting
part and watching the extruder shaft. I did this until I started to get a
little motion sick and decided that was a good time to quit.
Cubex Slicer (CS) includes an M228 with its output. I tried that, with
different values and I can't figure out that it does anything. Which makes
me curious why they put it in there.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7399#msg7399>
« *Reply #286 on:* December 04, 2013, 09:12:57 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7399;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Like I said earlier, M228 DISABLES M227.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7400#msg7400>
« *Reply #287 on:* December 04, 2013, 11:51:53 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7400;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I have been testing thin wall calibration on a 50x50x5 cube with Matter
Hackers 1.75 neon green PLA. I kept getting the gaps for about 10mm after
every new layer start and then it would smooth out for the remainder of the
layer.
I took Penske's advice and looked at the Min [MM^3.s]. I ran this up clear
to 6. This gradually condensed the gaps to the first 2mm to 3mm at the
beginning of each layer with the rest smoothing out. I think this setting
has something to do with the issue, and the default was .01 which I think
is way too low, but I don't think this is the whole issue.
Next I removed the [M551 P600 S80] command all together. As expected, this
resulted in no purge at the waste bucket, and the usual puddle at the start
of the print, but I noticed that there was not a the puddle on each
subsequent layer, and the gaps were gone at the beginning of each layer.
When I added [M551 P600 S80] back in, no puddle, but gaps returned.
I started looking at all my test prints and I think I see a pattern. Most
of my gaps are at or near layer starts, and shortly after moves, and
especially after areas where small supports are being laid. In other
words, gaps are appearing shortly after the M103 is executed.
Next, I removed all [M103] from the thin wall calibration print (I left
[M551 P600 S80] in). This also resulted in no gaps, but it did leave a
pretty fat starting corner because no suck was happening at the start of
the layer.
So after all that, I decided to draw a tiny red line on the extruder shaft
so I could watch how it moved at the start of a new layer in the thin wall
calibration print. Sure enough, to confirm e-mark's finding:
Quote from: e-marc on December 04, 2013, 03:00:32 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7397#msg7397>
The whole time I had the impression that by changing the prime value I
adjusted the prime and suck process at the same time but never changed the
difference between them.
This was confirmed by the look at the injection steppers axle: it is doing
definitely a suck without a suck adjusted (suck=0.00)
the suck is happening, but to my eye, the prime does not appear to be
returning all the way to the starting point of the suck. So here is my
theory:
M227, M551, and M228 ARE all connected in the cubeX firmware, as parameters
for M101 and M103.
To test this I first printed the thin wall calibration cube as output by
cubit (wipe disabled).
*Heres the beginning of the code which resulted in gaps at the beginning 10
to 20 mm of each layer.*
^Firmware:V1.07
G21
G90
M104 S200
M542
M227 S222 P593
M551 P600 S80
M543
M108 S10.8
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.5 F12000
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.25 F210
M101
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.41 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-47.55 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.57 Y78.06 Z0.25 F896.7
M103
*Next I printed the same cube with this change, and it resulted in the same
gaps and no visible change to the suck/prime:*
^Firmware:V1.07
G21
G90
M104 S200
M542
M227 S222 P593
M228 P0 S222
M551 P600 S80
M543
M108 S10.8
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.5 F12000
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.25 F210
M101
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.41 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-47.55 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.57 Y78.06 Z0.25 F896.7
M103
*The Third test print I made this change, resulting in the prime returning
to what appeared to be the initial point at which the suck began and the
print only had 7 very tiny gaps, none of which were at the be beginning of
a layer.*
^Firmware:V1.07
G21
G90
M104 S200
M542
M227 S222 P593
M551 P600 S80
M543
M108 S10.8
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.5 F12000
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.25 F210
M101
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.41 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-47.55 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.57 Y78.06 Z0.25 F896.7
M228 P0 S222
M103
Is there any reason why placement would make a difference? (M228 after M227
but before M551 vs. placing M228 directly after M551 vs. M228 before the
first M103...)
I set my printer loose on a mendel foot 90 minutes ago and so far it's the
cleanest print I've gotten. I can see <10 pin point size gaps with no
regularity in placement.
I've attached my test files. The BAK file has my settings in case anyone
wants to have a look as a starting point
[image: *] 50x50x5.stl<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2685> (3.28
kB - downloaded 3 times.)
[image: *] 50x50x5.bfb<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2686> (6.85
kB - downloaded 4 times.)
[image: *] 50x50x5.bfb.bak<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2687> (15.86
kB - downloaded 4 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7401#msg7401>
« *Reply #288 on:* December 05, 2013, 12:57:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7401;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 04, 2013, 11:28:20 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7385#msg7385>
Can someone please post a very simple CubeX print file generated with
1.08. (Yes, I know its encrypted) I want to compare the binary output
with something from 1.07 (before I update anything)...
Also, Is there a corresponding 1.08 firmware update also available? Is
anyone using this? If so, can we get a solid confirmation that we can
update to 1.08 firmware and still use text based bfb files and
non-proprietary filament?
It would be good to know this before I, or anyone else, tries an upgrade...
Hi,
attached a simple cube in cubex file if it can be useful.
I got the following error message in cubex :
"Errore loading gcode"
hello,
I wondered why EvanEvery put to 0.38 in the diameter of the "solid
infiltration - 0.10 layer" style?
There is probably a good reason or should I put 0.5
cordially
Bye
[image: *] Cubex 1.08.cubex<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2688> (38.32
kB - downloaded 3 times.)
« *Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 01:42:09 AM by teknbul* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7403#msg7403>
« *Reply #289 on:* December 05, 2013, 06:23:40 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7403;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Penske,
You are correct that M228 would normally disable M227. However that is not
the case on the Cubex.
Bkjnky,
Placement is everything! Thanks for looking at the minimum flow rate.
I've been having the same problem with the thin starts since I switched to
the 0.5 extrusion width. Are you still running the stock electronics and
firmware?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7405#msg7405>
« *Reply #290 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7405;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
It seems we have some very good investigations underway! Once we figure
out the required logic for M227/M228 placement, I will be happy to
implement that change in CubeIT.
Right now, I am fighting with the same problem that MattDub is seeing:
Random Voids
I have successfully updated my printer speeds to Fast= 30/58/66 and
Precise=17/28/38, XYTravel=500, 1st layer max speed=28 based on what I have
seen in two native CS BFB files ("draft" and "normal" prints). The good
news is that it appears these significantly faster speeds work just fine.
The bad news is that it didn't solve my issue with random voids in the
print. Until I get these random voids eliminated, there would be little
point in trying to optimize any other settings as this issue will mask the
effects of other parameter changes.
I know MattDub is seeing these, but if anyone else is also having this
issue it would be great to see what helps resolve it. You can hear the
nozzle "pop" when it spits a void, but I'm not sure what the root cause
is. It has been seen with both PLA and ABS. Here are a few things I am
going to research to see if they might be related to the problem. If
anyone has any other suggestions, please let us know:
1. The extruder emits an audible pop when it generates a void. You can
hear it if you listen closely. Sounds just like when you are using the
last of the caulk in a caulking gun and you hit an air pocket. There
doesn't seem to be any pattern in the appearance of the voids. They appear
to be randomly generated within long continuous print commands (not at the
start or end of a command). I'm wondering if the popping we are hearing
might actually be the extruder slipping on the filament. The POS CubeX
cartridges have jammed and snapped so many times, I'm wondering if there is
debris left on the teeth/gears of the extruder which may need to be cleaned
off. Maybe this "popping" is not coming from the melted filament at all,
maybe it is the extruder slipping on the filament. I have two extruders in
my machine (one with PLA and one with ABS). I am going to move the ABS
over to the other (much less used) extruder and see if the problem
continues. This might at least help isolate a problem with a specific
extruder. Maybe it just needs to be disassembled and cleaned?
2. CubeX makes horrible cartridges. Maybe their filament is junk as
well. So I can also try some off the shelf filament to see if it makes any
difference.
3. I wonder if it also might be manageable by trying different temps. I'm
using 255/265/150 for ABS. Maybe if I reduce them a bit. What are other
folks using for ABS?
Anyone have any other ideas? Anything else to try? Suggestions?
Thanks...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7406#msg7406>
« *Reply #291 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:09:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7406;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I speed change made it better but didn't resolve the issue. I'll try
messing with the Min [MM^3.s] as Penske suggested and run some prints.
Thanks all!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7407#msg7407>
« *Reply #292 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:13:55 AM »
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BJINKY - Are the gaps you are seeing the same type issue that MattDub has
in the photo he posted a while back? I wonder if these two issues might be
related (or the same)...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7408#msg7408>
« *Reply #293 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:18:02 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7408;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I don't know if anyone will find this of value but here is a link to a web
page that has a pretty concise listing of the GCodes we are talking about:
http://fabmetheus.crsndoo.com/wiki/index.php/G-Code. (Many of the other
pages I've found don't mention some of the GCodes we are using with our
printers)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7409#msg7409>
« *Reply #294 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:23:07 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7409;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Hi Evenevry,
I also heard a pop and i have the same issue since the last verions of
Cubeit.
I will try with second last version
Bye
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7410#msg7410>
« *Reply #295 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:25:47 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7410;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: teknbul on December 05, 2013, 12:57:31 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7401#msg7401>
I wondered why EvanEvery put to 0.38 in the diameter of the "solid
infiltration - 0.10 layer" style?
There is probably a good reason or should I put 0.5
Someone suggested (quite a ways back in this thread) that 0.5 was probably
too high a setting and 0.38 was suggested. Most of what I've put in my
settings is simply based on observations and suggestions by other users
folks in this thread. I still think I'm pushing a slightly more material
than I need to be, but until I get the "random voids" issue resolved, there
is not much point in trying to examine any other adjustments...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7411#msg7411>
« *Reply #296 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:28:17 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7411;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I'm fairly certain the Random Void issue (popping) has nothing to do with
CubeIt. I had that issue even before we posted the last version. It could
have something to do with the settings that were posted at the same time
though... Are you using the INI files that I posted along with CubeIt?
Maybe something is out of whack there (temps?)...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7412#msg7412>
« *Reply #297 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:46:09 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7412;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
FYI - I'm looking at a Native CS BFB file and it looks like it is using a
first layer temp of 280 and a main temp of 262 for ABS. When printed for
PLA the native temps are 250/205.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7413#msg7413>
« *Reply #298 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:50:13 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7413;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
...Additionally (sorry for the multiple postings)...
It looks like the native CS print files always have an M228 immediately
following an M227. In the file I'm currently looking at:
M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73
It looks like these are always dropped into the print files as a pair
(never one without the other and both together)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7414#msg7414>
« *Reply #299 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:57:46 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7414;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:46:09 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7412#msg7412>
FYI - I'm looking at a Native CS BFB file and it looks like it is using a
first layer temp of 280 and a main temp of 262 for ABS. When printed for
PLA the native temps are 250/205.
seems to me very much because in my testing more than 265 ? C starts to
burn ABS
for the rest :
default when the printer first and second layer is purged several
centimeter plastic falls into the drip tray.
Now it seems to me that there is no purge.
May be that this causes bubbles in the extruder
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7415#msg7415>
« *Reply #300 on:* December 05, 2013, 08:07:36 AM »
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I have also noted that the initial purge is very small. I think this will
be easy to adjust. However, I do not think this is the main problem with
the Random Voids. I printed a part last night that ran for about 1-1/2
hours (at the higher speeds) and the random voids appear all through the
product (well past the initial part of the filament).
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7417#msg7417>
« *Reply #301 on:* December 05, 2013, 10:00:23 AM »
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Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:13:55 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7407#msg7407>
BJINKY - Are the gaps you are seeing the same type issue that MattDub has
in the photo he posted a while back? I wonder if these two issues might be
related (or the same)...
Yes I was seeing the random voids as well, but if you watch the print and
listen for the popping noise you will likely see that they are not so
random as they usually occur shortly after a jump (M103) where prime& suck
would be initiated.
I haven't tried an M228 P0 SXXX where SXXX was a different value than the
corresponding M227 P value. That might be a good place to look for a
ratio.
Also I thing the cubify bfb files are possibly set up for a different
extruder type, maybe the actal bfb printer.
Btw the Mendel foot that I printer last night including the M228 was almost
flawless with less than ten pin point size gaps on the outer wall.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7418#msg7418>
« *Reply #302 on:* December 05, 2013, 10:14:40 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7418;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
The M227 and M228 commands I posted a few messages back:
M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73
are the actual commands that the native CS slicer is sending to the CubeX
(see prior message). These are specifically for the CubeX and not the
generic BFB printer...
We should be able to use the BFB file left behind by the Native CubeX
Slicer (v1.07) to help determine what the firmware in the CubeX is
expecting. There appears to be at least a few GCodes which are being used
in a non-standard way. (I've seen M104 commands with an extra parameter
"M104 S205 P1" and the M228 command also appears to have extra
parameters...)
Once we figure out the details of any "special" logic that needs to be
incorporated, I'll add it to the CubeIt post-processor. Of course, we
first need to confirm what needs to be done by editing the files by hand
and then running some tests....
If anyone still has the distribution/installer for the v1.07 software, it
might be handy to post it so other folks can download and examine the BFB
output file...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7420#msg7420>
« *Reply #303 on:* December 05, 2013, 11:45:04 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7420;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I've generated a simple native BFB file using the CS slicer. I only see
two areas where there is any significant changes to the settings we are
looking at (M227, M228). It appears these two areas correspond to the
initial definition for the "first layer" and then a single definition for
"all other layers".
Here is a snapshot of the "First Layer" codes seen at the top of the file
(with GCode comments I have added):
M104 S280 P1 (Set Ext1 Temp)
M542 (Enter Wipe Area)
M104 S280 (Set Ext1 Temp)
M551 P99 S150.000 (Prime/Purge Ext1)
M227 P99 S201 (Set Prime/Suck)
M228 P0 S73 (Disable Prime/Suck)
M543 (Exit Wipe Area)
M108 S24.0 (Set Extruder Speed)
Here is a snapshot of the second settings region which appears to be
associated with the rest of the print:
M103 (All Extruders Off)
M542 (Enter Wipe Area)
M104 S262 (Set Ext1 Temp)
M106 P0 (Fan On)
M227 P99 S201 (Set Prime/Suck)
M228 P0 S73 (Disable Prime/Suck)
M551 P2499 S150.000 (Prime/Purge Ext1)
M107 (Fan Off)
M543 (Exit Wipe Area)
M108 S35.0 (Set Extruder Speed)
Here are my observations about the above GCode extracts:
1. CS only appears to do these settings twice - once for the initial
layer(s) and then once more for the rest of the print
2. Prime and Suck settings (M227 and M228) are always done as a pair, in
the same order, and with the same values
3. M228 commands appear to have some extra/proprietary parameters which
are not generally implemented by other printers
3. These two regions are the only places in the file I see any temperature
setting changes (M104) for the extruder(s)
4. Extruder Flow Rate settings/changes (M108), However, are seen sprinkled
throughout the file
5. It seems nozzle purges (M551) to the wipe area (M552) are always done
at these times as well
If the above is true, the CS slicer seems to incorporate
M227/M228/M104/M551/M552 into a logical block operation. It looks like any
time one of these commands appear in the file, you will see the rest of
them in the same block.
As we examine the BFB print files produced by the CS app, its very
important to understand we are NOT trying to completely replicate the
output of the CS app. We already know the Kisslicer will give us better
prints. To duplicate the CS behavior would be pointless. What we need to
do is identify the stuff which is important, understand how to implement
it, and then throw the rest away.
I think the only important thing here may be the M227, M228 and possibly
the M551 commands. Specifically the fact that they appear to be
implemented in a non-standard fashion. I'm pretty sure, we are going to
have to implement the M227 and M228 commands as a pair and likely with the
same values we are seeing in the native output. In viewing print files
sent to Ext2, the M227/M228 commands do not change. However, when printing
with PLA, not only are the M227 and M228 commands significantly different,
but also the M551 (purge) command:
ABS Print:
"First Layers" ABS
----------------------
M551 P99 S150.000
M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73
"Remaining Layers" ABS
---------------------------
M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73
M551 P2499 S150.000
PLA PRINT:
"First Layers" PLA
----------------------
M551 P163 S80.000
M227 P163 S230
M228 P0 S163
"Remaining Layers" PLA
---------------------------
M227 P163 S230
M228 P0 S163
M551 P6000 S80.000
For both the ABS and PLA prints, the relationship between the M551 (purge)
command and the M227/M228 (prime/suck) settings changes. For the initial
purge, it precedes the settings. For the secondary purge, it comes after
the settings. Note that the M551 parameters also change based on its
placement wrt to the M227/M228 block (before or after).
I'm still looking at the native Kisslicer output as well. It also appears
to only use the M227 and M551 commands twice (first layer and remaining
layers) - so that is good. Kisslicer does not use M228. I think it should
be relatively easy for Cubeit to simply find the M227/M551 blocks in a
Kisslicer print file, rearrange them a bit, and drop in an M228 as needed.
Its likely I will also need to trap the corresponding M104 (temp) command
to determine if we are working with PLA or ABS (as the M551/M227/M228
parameters change)...
However, we should be able to manually post-process our files to implement
these blocks as needed. Lets first try and implement them by hand and see
what happens... Please help us test these and report your findings...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7423#msg7423>
« *Reply #304 on:* December 05, 2013, 12:44:22 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7423;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 10:14:40 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7418#msg7418>
The M227 and M228 commands I posted a few messages back:
M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73
are the actual commands that the native CS slicer is sending to the CubeX
(see prior message). These are specifically for the CubeX and not the
generic BFB printer...
We should be able to use the BFB file left behind by the Native CubeX
Slicer (v1.07) to help determine what the firmware in the CubeX is
expecting. There appears to be at least a few GCodes which are being used
in a non-standard way. (I've seen M104 commands with an extra parameter
"M104 S205 P1" and the M228 command also appears to have extra
parameters...)
Once we figure out the details of any "special" logic that needs to be
incorporated, I'll add it to the CubeIt post-processor. Of course, we
first need to confirm what needs to be done by editing the files by hand
and then running some tests....
If anyone still has the distribution/installer for the v1.07 software, it
might be handy to post it so other folks can download and examine the BFB
output file...
I still have version 1.07 of Cubex Software.
Attached a file. Bfbe of a simple cube 10x10x10 PLA 0.25.
[image: *] 10x10x10 Cube with CubeX 1.07.bfbe<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2692> (38.32
kB - downloaded 6 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7428#msg7428>
« *Reply #305 on:* December 05, 2013, 01:54:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7428;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:50:13 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7413#msg7413>
It looks like the native CS print files always have an M228 immediately
following an M227. In the file I'm currently looking at:
M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73
It looks like these are always dropped into the print files as a pair
(never one without the other and both together)
Which doesn't make any sense. Additionally, M228 doesn't have any P/S
parameters. Of course, we're talking about a BfB machine that the brainacs
at 3D Systems Borged and then tried to make it "better". As said earlier,
if they are going to use proprietary firmware that uses unique codes, at
least use numbers that haven't long been used in mainstream slicing.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7430#msg7430>
« *Reply #306 on:* December 05, 2013, 02:21:55 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7430;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7405#msg7405>
1. The extruder emits an audible pop when it generates a void. You can
hear it if you listen closely. Sounds just like when you are using the
last of the caulk in a caulking gun and you hit an air pocket. There
doesn't seem to be any pattern in the appearance of the voids. They appear
to be randomly generated within long continuous print commands (not at the
start or end of a command). I'm wondering if the popping we are hearing
might actually be the extruder slipping on the filament.
Slipping on the filament (stripping) can be detected by holding the
filament as it prints. You'll be able to feel it. However, slipping on the
filament won't cause a corresponding, immediate gap in the print. The two
are effectively disconnected by the melt. Pressure builds up in the nozzle
as a natural action during a print. This is the reason for Prime and Suck
and why Bowden cable extruders need way more P/S, because the inherent slop
in a push/pull cable will not restore the pressure quickly enough unless
you overdrive the Prime. The reported gaps at layer start sure sound like
what you get with a Bowden not set correctly.
But, that doesn't address the popping. You can narrow down whether it is
explosive gas exiting the nozzle by listening through a tube that is
directed at the nozzle.
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7405#msg7405>
2. CubeX makes horrible cartridges. Maybe their filament is junk as well.
Has been shown to be the case. The PLA I got with the 3DT exhibited the
well known "Snapping Issue"; breaking into 1"-3" pieces inside the feed
tube overnight. Fun to get out. After the second day of that, no more BfB
PLA goes in my machine. The ABS was ok in that regard but was harder,
requiring the higher temperature.
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7405#msg7405>
So I can also try some off the shelf filament to see if it makes any
difference.
I thought that was the point of doing away with the cartridges.
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7405#msg7405>
3. I wonder if it also might be manageable by trying different temps. I'm
using 255/265/150 for ABS. Maybe if I reduce them a bit. What are other
folks using for ABS?
BfB ABS was 260C. The stock I get from ProtoParadigm runs cooler. Good
results between 225C-250C. But, if it is escaping heated gas, dropping the
temp by 10C-35C won't do much. 225C is still 125C above boiling. Be aware
that ABS, nylon and polycarbonate are also hygroscopic, just not to the
degree that PLA is. If moisture has been absorbed, it will boil and rapidly
expand. That you are getting gaps in long paths, not necessarily at layer
start--which would indicate Prime/Suck, points to this.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7431#msg7431>
« *Reply #307 on:* December 05, 2013, 02:30:31 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7431;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I have an updated version of CubeIt prepared which will automatically
insert one of the 4 Prime/Suck/Purge (PSP) Blocks identified below whenever
it sees an M55x command. The four blocks I have are as follows (user
configurable in CubeIt.INI):
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for First layers of ABS
[PSPBlock ABS First]
Line1=M55x P99 S150.000
Line2=M227 P99 S201
Line3=M228 P0 S73
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for Remaining layers of ABS
[PSPBlock ABS Rest]
Line1=M227 P99 S201
Line2=M228 P0 S73
Line3=M55x P2499 S150.000
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for FIRST layers of PLA
[PSPBlock PLA First]
Line1=M55x P163 S80.000
Line2=M227 P163 S230
Line3=M228 P0 S163
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for Remaining layers of PLA
[PSPBlock PLA Rest]
Line1=M227 P163 S230
Line2=M228 P0 S163
Line3=M55x P6000 S80.000
CubeIt is watching for M104, M204, and M304 commands to trap the last
temperature setting so we can determine if the associated "PSP Block"
wshould be for ABS or PLA. There is a user configurable threshold setting
in the INI (PLA_ABS_Threshold=230) that basically says if the last seen
temp set (M104,M204,M304) is below that number then we are working with PLA
- above would be ABS. Additionally I am keeping track of the number of
times a temp is set for each extruder so we can determine if the associated
PSP replacement is for a "First Layer" or the "Remaining Layers".
The above values were all obtained from native CS BFB files but they can be
tweaked in the INI. I think this logic is pretty solid. I am going to
test it tonight. I'm not sure how this will effect the "puddle" issue we
resolved with the current release of CubeIt so I want to run a test print
first.
Hopefully, we'll have a new CubeIt version by tomorrow. Cross your
fingers...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7432#msg7432>
« *Reply #308 on:* December 05, 2013, 02:38:57 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7432;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 05, 2013, 02:21:55 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7430#msg7430>
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7405#msg7405>
So I can also try some off the shelf filament to see if it makes any
difference.
I thought that was the point of doing away with the cartridges.
I've already got a considerable amount of the BFB filament to work
through. (I have some new generic stuff as well). Right now, I'm just
pulling the cardboard spools out of the BFB Cartridges and hanging them so
they don't bind up anymore. Might as well use the BFB filament I have on
hand as long as removing it from the cartridges keep it from binding...
(...and as long as it works OK)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7435#msg7435>
« *Reply #309 on:* December 05, 2013, 03:16:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7435;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Ah. Then swapping in the open market filament will tell you something.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7441#msg7441>
« *Reply #310 on:* December 05, 2013, 06:21:51 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7441;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I've just run a couple of prints with the new version of CubeIt and it
appears to resolve the issue with "Random Gaps". I'm not exactly sure, but
by using the same Prime/Suck/Purge (PSP) group codes as the native version
of the CS slicer the problems seem to go away. These are the best prints
I've seen so far. (I'm using the same extruder and filament as always so
the only thing I have changed is the update to CubeIt.
The attached archive also contains my INI files for Kisslicer. Be careful
where you extract it if you do not want to overwrite your own INI files.
Once again, I'm not making any claims that all my settings are optimal, but
I'm providing these files as a quick start for folks who want to jump right
in with the CubeX and kind of be at the same place most of the rest of us
are. My INI files do have the updated/faster print speeds incorporated
which decrease the printing time dramatically with no apparent detriment to
quality.
As I alluded to in an earlier post, CubeIt has been rewritten to now
automatically swap in one of four groups of Prime/Suck settings and a Purge
command whenever it locates a purge Command in the Kisslicer output. Take
a look at the new CubeIt.INI file and you will see the 4 "PSP"
(Prime/Suck/Purge) groups in the settings. There are 2 groups for ABS and
2 groups for PLA. The first of each of these groups is used for first
layer M55x (purge commands), and the second is used for all the remaining
ones. These four PSP groups emulate what is being done by the native CS
slicer. These PSP groups appear in both the CS and KS output files
whenever an extruder temp is changed. CubeIt keeps track of the last
extruder temp setting it sees so we can determine what type of material is
currently being extruded. A Threshold temp can be set in the INI
(default=230) to help determine which material (ABS/PLA) is being printed.
Any temps below 230 are assumed to be for PLA, anything above indicates
ABS. CubeIt also counts the number of times the temp is set for each
extruder. CubeIt will select the "First" PSP group for the associated
material for the first time each extruder gets a temp setting. The "Rest"
group will be selected for all the remainder. By tracking temps, and
extruder settings, CubeIt will automatically know which one of the 4 groups
to insert into the print file any time it sees an "M55x" purge command.
The ABS/PLA Threshold temp is user configurable in the INI file. Also, you
can easily change any of the PSP command blocks to be inserted by
adding/deleting lines in the associated group or modifying their values.
So CubeIt watches the M104/M204/M304 and tracks those temps. It also
watches for any M551/M552/M553 commands. When it sees an M55x command, it
simply selects the PSP appropriate group to be inserted in its place. The
original M55x command is discarded (There is a new M55x in each PSP
group). Also, any M227 commands which follow later in the file is also
discarded (a new M227 command is also included in each PSP Group).
Please take a look at the INI file. It should be pretty self explanatory.
The default values in my CubeIt.ini file are working very well for me. No
more random gaps, no puddles, etc. I think its a pretty good place to
start tweaking again...
As usual, CubeIt.exe and CubeIt.ini need to be copied into your Kisslicer
program directory and CubeIt needs to be identified as a post-processor for
Kisslicer. There is a bunch of info in this thread at my last posting
which explains this in more detail.
Please make some test prints and let us know how this new version of CubeIt
is working for you. (Particularly if you had been seeing random gaps and
they are now gone...)
There obviously is some non-standard behavior/functionality for the
M227/M228 pairs. Perhaps this is one of the solutions we have been digging
for...
Comments and suggestions are always appreciated.
Here you go...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7442#msg7442>
« *Reply #311 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:46:05 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7442;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Hello,
Does anybody have the CubeX software version 1.07 zip file, and can post it
somewhere to download?
thank you much
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7443#msg7443>
« *Reply #312 on:* December 05, 2013, 08:38:06 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7443;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on December 05, 2013, 07:46:05 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7442#msg7442>
Hello,
Does anybody have the CubeX software version 1.07 zip file, and can post it
somewhere to download?
thank you much
I've got the ZIP file, but no where to post it. Its 53MB anyone got a
place to post the file to?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7444#msg7444>
« *Reply #313 on:* December 05, 2013, 09:09:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7444;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Thinking further about the "popping" issue, looking for alternatives, if
the Prime/Suck values were somehow being messed with by the CubeX
proprietary firmware/g-code insertions that don't make any sense, the
extruder could be made to be void of material--completely starved.
The main difference between a 3DT and a CubeX is the extruder drive
mechanism. The CubeX, having such a large drive wheel, can spit a lot of
material in either direction in a short period; way more than a direct
drive lead screw like the 3DT has. All it would take is one decimal place
off and the Suck becomes way too great. This then pulls all of the material
out of the extruder and back up into the tube--the gap is filled with air.
When the Prime happens as the head contacts the part to begin a new
extrusion, the air gets trapped for a bit, heats up and bursts out of the
nozzle. There is a void behind that takes a bit to be filled and then
pressurized, in order to supplying a normal extrusion volume.
« *Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 09:15:41 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7445#msg7445>
« *Reply #314 on:* December 05, 2013, 09:10:57 PM »
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Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 06:21:51 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7441#msg7441>
No more random gaps, no puddles, etc. I think its a pretty good place to
start tweaking again...
Hey Evan,
just tried the new Cubit. Seem to be getting the 1st layer puddle now, but
no gaps in the perimeter loops.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7446#msg7446>
« *Reply #315 on:* December 05, 2013, 10:22:52 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7446;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Hello bkjnky,
If you have gmail, you can insert a large file using Drive:
Here's how to insert a file using Drive when you're composing a message:
1.Hover over the plus icon insert menu plus icon at the bottom of the
compose window, which will open the insert menu. (Remember, you need to be
using Gmail's new compose and reply experience to insert files using Google
Drive).
2.Click the Google Drive icon insert from Drive. In the window that
appears, you can upload a file to Google Drive, as well as navigate to or
search for files you've stored in Drive. For files stored in Drive, select
the checkboxes next to the files you want to insert. If you don't have any
files in Drive, visit drive.google.com to either create, sync, or upload
them.
3.Click the Insert button.
Gmail then adds a link to your message so recipients can click the link to
view your file.
When you send the message, Gmail checks to see if your recipients have
access to the file and will prompt you to adjust the sharing settings on
the file(s) you've inserted, if needed.
Thank you much
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7447#msg7447>
« *Reply #316 on:* December 05, 2013, 10:37:07 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7447;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 05, 2013, 09:09:39 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7444#msg7444>
Thinking further about the "popping" issue, looking for alternatives, if
the Prime/Suck values were somehow being messed with by the CubeX
proprietary firmware/g-code insertions that don't make any sense, the
extruder could be made to be void of material--completely starved.
The main difference between a 3DT and a CubeX is the extruder drive
mechanism. The CubeX, having such a large drive wheel, can spit a lot of
material in either direction in a short period; way more than a direct
drive lead screw like the 3DT has. All it would take is one decimal place
off and the Suck becomes way too great. This then pulls all of the material
out of the extruder and back up into the tube--the gap is filled with air.
When the Prime happens as the head contacts the part to begin a new
extrusion, the air gets trapped for a bit, heats up and bursts out of the
nozzle. There is a void behind that takes a bit to be filled and then
pressurized, in order to supplying a normal extrusion volume.
I agree with this 100%. think about all the retractions that happen when
printing supports and infill. It could be creating dozens of pockets in
the flow....
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7448#msg7448>
« *Reply #317 on:* December 05, 2013, 11:12:22 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7448;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1EQlD5FnX2zSGxlbEFqb2dmVWs/edit?usp=drive_web
cubeX 1.07
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7451#msg7451>
« *Reply #318 on:* December 06, 2013, 04:29:49 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7451;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Hi,
printing with layers of 0.25 mm is pretty good.
printing with layers 0.1 mm there is an anomaly on the contour.
It looks like teeth on the contour
dimension of the part :
x / y = 55 x 12 mm
parameter:
PLA 210/240/150
SolidInfill / 0.1 mm
All other parameter as EvanEvery
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2695;image>
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« *Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 04:34:21 AM by teknbul* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7453#msg7453>
« *Reply #319 on:* December 06, 2013, 05:14:08 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7453;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Looks like the teeth are only on the one long side and one end?
Is that raft as-printed?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7454#msg7454>
« *Reply #320 on:* December 06, 2013, 05:31:28 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7454;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 06, 2013, 05:14:08 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7453#msg7453>
Looks like the teeth are only on the one long side and one end?
Is that raft as-printed?
Hi,
Yes is the raft.
The teeth are on one side and one curve of the contour.
teeth increased or decreased along the contour.
decreased or increased, because I no longer know the sense of displacement
in 0.25 it does not appear
« *Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 05:41:46 AM by teknbul* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7455#msg7455>
« *Reply #321 on:* December 06, 2013, 05:46:04 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7455;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: teknbul on December 06, 2013, 05:31:28 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7454#msg7454>
Yes is the raft.
Ok. Having a bit of trouble figuring out how that got printed. It looks
draped, like a table cloth.
Quote from: teknbul on December 06, 2013, 05:31:28 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7454#msg7454>
The teeth are on one side and one curve of the contour. in 0.25 it does not
appear
I presume that the paths view in KS shows the path as being straight along
those edges?
How many Loops?
Can you provide a screen grab of the slice through the layers where the
teeth appear in the print?
« *Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 05:49:58 AM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7456#msg7456>
« *Reply #322 on:* December 06, 2013, 05:50:47 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7456;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 06, 2013, 05:46:04 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7455#msg7455>
I presume that the paths view in KS shows the path as being straight along
those edges?
Yes
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 06, 2013, 05:46:04 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7455#msg7455>
How many Loops?
2 loops
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7457#msg7457>
« *Reply #323 on:* December 06, 2013, 06:32:55 AM »
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may have to do a little recap on controls M55x, M227, M228
M55x = Purge command
M227 = function Suck
M228 = Prime function
P = Number of stepper motor
S = RPM * 10
Is this good?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7458#msg7458>
« *Reply #324 on:* December 06, 2013, 06:42:50 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7458;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I did not see any puddle in either of my latest test prints. Does anyone
else have any observations?
We can certainly rearrange the order, modify, or add to, of the commands in
any of the PSP groups in the CubeIt.ini file. (For example: Move the M55x
after the M227/M228 in the "First Layer" PSP Groups). CubeIt's job is
simply to detect when the insert of the group is necessary, choose the
proper section in the INI, and then just insert the commands inthe order
they are listed. (Note that the key names in the INI sections do not
matter (Line1, Line2, etc) - CubeIt just copies in the entire section
(without the key names) in the order it is listed. You can have as many
commands in these groups as you want. This should make it relatively easy
to test different combinations and modifications.
But I'm curious why I didn't see any puddle in either of my tests...
Since its obvious that there is some proprietary logic associated with the
PSP groups, I think we need to proceed cautiously to try and figure out
what exactly is going on...
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for First layers of ABS
[PSPBlock ABS First]
Line1=M55x P99 S150.000
Line2=M227 P99 S201
Line3=M228 P0 S73
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for Remaining layers of ABS
[PSPBlock ABS Rest]
Line1=M227 P99 S201
Line2=M228 P0 S73
Line3=M55x P2499 S150.000
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for FIRST layers of PLA
[PSPBlock PLA First]
Line1=M55x P163 S80.000
Line2=M227 P163 S230
Line3=M228 P0 S163
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for Remaining layers of PLA
[PSPBlock PLA Rest]
Line1=M227 P163 S230
Line2=M228 P0 S163
Line3=M55x P6000 S80.000
1. Why do the M55x commands precede the M227/M228 pair in the first layer
print, while coming AFTER the pairs for the rest of the print?
2. Why do the values of the M55x command change so radically between
"first" layer & "rest" layers of the prints?
3. Note that M228 has some extra parameters... I wonder what they do?
They differ between PLA and ABS... Note that for PLA, the M228 "S"
parameter always matches the groups M227 "P" parameter. For ABS, they are
different (but consistent). ...And these are not round numbers, but pretty
specific integers...
4. Note that in the first layer print, the M55X P value always matches the
P value of the M227 command which immediately follows it. These aren't
round numbers either (i.e. 99, 163) so I'm wondering if there is some
logical relationship...
First, lets find out why some folks are still seeing puddles. I think that
might be fairly easy to get out of the way...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7459#msg7459>
« *Reply #325 on:* December 06, 2013, 06:48:27 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7459;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: teknbul on December 06, 2013, 06:32:55 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7457#msg7457>
may have to do a little recap on controls M55x, M227, M228
M55x = Purge command
M227 = function Suck
M228 = Prime function
P = Number of stepper motor
S = RPM * 10
Is this good?
Yesterday I ran a bunch of Native BFB files (v1.07) and changed the
parameters between tests. I preserved these for easy reference. I ran 4
tests PLA on Ext1, PLA on Ext2, ABS on Ext1, and ABS on Ext2.
The "P" parameter on the M228 was always "P0" so it doesn't appear to
reference any particular extruder. The only command which varied between
extruders was the M55x command (M551, M552, M553). (CubeIt will convert
the M55x in the INI PSP Groups to match whatever extruder is currently
being used).
Keep Looking!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7460#msg7460>
« *Reply #326 on:* December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM »
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Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 10:14:40 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7418#msg7418>
I've seen M104 commands with an extra parameter "M104 S205 P1" and the M228
command also appears to have extra parameters...
In the set temperature m-code, they are using the P1 as a modifier. Without
the P1, the code M104 S210 sets the target temperature to 210C and waits
for the hot end to reach that temperature before executing the next command.
With the P1, M104 S210 P1 sets the target temperature to 210C, but does not
wait for the hot end to reach that temperature before continuing with the
program. It immediately goes to the next line of code.
I read about this here
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=606.msg4491#msg4491
I also verified this behavior by running this short program on my machine.
^Firmware:V1.07
G21
G90
M104 S195
G1 X-9.78 Y24.22 Z0.5 F12000
G1 X-9.78 Y24.22 Z5.00 F180
G1 X-10.55 Y24.88 Z5.00 F900.7
M103
M104 S0
Without the P1 at the end of the M104 line, the machine heats up the hot
end and then does the movements. Since the hot end takes a while to heat
up, it takes longer than one minute to execute the program.
If you replace the 4th line above with M104 S195 P1, the machine does not
wait for the hot end to heat up, it runs the movements and the program
finishes in few seconds.
The other interesting thing is the above code does not tell the machine to
move to the wipe area, M542, but it does it anyway. So the M542/M543 pair
maybe redundant when doing a temperature change.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7461#msg7461>
« *Reply #327 on:* December 06, 2013, 07:39:48 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7461;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Do you think this might provide some insight into the extra parameters on
the M228 command?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7463#msg7463>
« *Reply #328 on:* December 06, 2013, 02:14:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7463;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Hey guys... I'm gonna be out of town most of next week. I don't know how
much access I'll have to the forum. Keep the info flowing and I'll try to
implement anything that's needed into CubeIt when I get back...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7464#msg7464>
« *Reply #329 on:* December 06, 2013, 05:53:59 PM »
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Hey I waws wondering if there is a Doc explaining all the function of
Kisslicer I am couriuos what crown and loops and other things are
thanks
Tom
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7465#msg7465>
« *Reply #330 on:* December 06, 2013, 07:12:28 PM »
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Quote from: treemagnet on December 06, 2013, 05:53:59 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7464#msg7464>
Hey I waws wondering if there is a Doc explaining all the function of
Kisslicer I am couriuos what crown and loops and other things are
thanks
Tom
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=671.0;attach=1902
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7466#msg7466>
« *Reply #331 on:* December 06, 2013, 07:27:54 PM »
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great thanks
Tom
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7473#msg7473>
« *Reply #332 on:* December 07, 2013, 10:01:55 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7473;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Evan, with the new version my purge speed in the wipe box is causing my
extruder to skip. How can I slow this down and decrease the amount of purge
a bit?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7479#msg7479>
« *Reply #333 on:* December 07, 2013, 01:55:48 PM »
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Quote from: AeroJack on December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7460#msg7460>
With the P1, M104 S210 P1 sets the target temperature to 210C, but does not
wait for the hot end to reach that temperature before continuing with the
program. It immediately goes to the next line of code.
Which is how Mx04 is supposed to work.
Quote from: AeroJack on December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7460#msg7460>
Without the P1 at the end of the M104 line, the machine heats up the hot
end and then does the movements.
Which is what Mx09 is for.
Quote from: AeroJack on December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7460#msg7460>
Since the hot end takes a while to heat up, it takes longer than one minute
to execute the program.
If you replace the 4th line above with M104 S195 P1, the machine does not
wait for the hot end to heat up, it runs the movements and the program
finishes in few seconds.
It would be recommended to place an Mx04 Snnn command in the prefix, in
order to ensure that the extruder is up to temp before going to print.
While the program may finish in a few seconds, it may also damage your
extruder because it isn't waiting on that first heat. Subsequent temp
changes can benefit from adding P1, but the first should be without it.
Quote from: AeroJack on December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7460#msg7460>
The other interesting thing is the above code does not tell the machine to
move to the wipe area, M542, but it does it anyway. So the M542/M543 pair
maybe redundant when doing a temperature change.
This is the same behavior as a 3DT. There are a few threads on this and how
to alter the action:
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=606.msg4509#msg4509
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=163.msg6939#msg6939
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=751.msg5536#msg5536
« *Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 02:02:15 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7480#msg7480>
« *Reply #334 on:* December 07, 2013, 01:59:14 PM »
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Quote from: evanevery on December 06, 2013, 07:39:48 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7461#msg7461>
Do you think this might provide some insight into the extra parameters on
the M228 command?
The thread is too long to try to locate where this answer may be but what
happens if you just whack the M228 line altogether?
Alternative to that, if there is any convention going on with their stupid
messing with codes, changing the M228 P0 Snnn to M228 P1 Snnn may trigger
something that is now disabled. M228 is a disable command, so perhaps they
have added a switch.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7481#msg7481>
« *Reply #335 on:* December 07, 2013, 03:27:43 PM »
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Quote from: joestefano on December 07, 2013, 10:01:55 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7473#msg7473>
Evan, with the new version my purge speed in the wipe box is causing my
extruder to skip. How can I slow this down and decrease the amount of purge
a bit?
I'm not seeing any issues with extruders skipping or puddles.
Are you using the Kisslicer INI files I included with the latest version of
CubeIt? (So at least we are using the same settings) I've been printing
with ABS using the 20% infill style and everything is working great at that
setting. No puddles, no random gaps/voids, no extruder skipping...
What material and what style are you using? Can you post your kisslicer
native output (*.bfb.bak) and also the CubeIt modified file (*.bfb). If
you don't have a *.bfb.bak then CubeIt hasn't been integrated properly...
I'm all for running down any problems, but we first have to make sure we
are using the same settings, etc.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7484#msg7484>
« *Reply #336 on:* December 07, 2013, 04:51:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7484;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Evan,
I posted a short video here http://youtu.be/gWn9yBQOY1c the 1st layer
purge is very short and does not skip the 2nd layer purge is long and
skips. I am using Reprap PLA, I have been using it for awhile now and the
only time it skips is if I try to run it to fast for the temp. Otherwise
it's great.
I went back to the prior version of CubeIt and my settings that work well
with this PLA is "material" P .5 S .1 and in the Gcode tab P2000 S80
I don't know if this helps.
[image: *] PLA1x1 box no bottom.bfb.bak<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2703> (15.54
kB - downloaded 1 times.)
[image: *] PLA1x1 box no bottom.bfb.bak<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2704> (15.54
kB - downloaded 0 times.)
« *Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 04:53:22 PM by joestefano* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7485#msg7485>
« *Reply #337 on:* December 07, 2013, 05:06:17 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7485;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Does anyone know the steps per revolution of the Cubex extruder motors? I
found a post that said 3200 but that was for a different bfb machine. Are
they all the same?
Thanks
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7487#msg7487>
« *Reply #338 on:* December 07, 2013, 10:20:36 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7487;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: joestefano on December 07, 2013, 10:01:55 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7473#msg7473>
Evan, with the new version my purge speed in the wipe box is causing my
extruder to skip. How can I slow this down and decrease the amount of purge
a bit?
I've seen this issue as well, but it usually occurs when I haven't
correctly set my filament size correctly, or there is a need to clean the
print jet (not total clog, but some buildup inside nozzle)Check your
filament in a few place to make sure the size setting is correct, if that's
not the issue, try removing the head and heating it up with a heat gun then
push a drill bit square end first through the the nozzle to push out all
material.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7509#msg7509>
« *Reply #339 on:* December 09, 2013, 05:11:48 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7509;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
so I bought some black abs from botfeeder and I have been hearing this
"popping" and have had voids in my print. when I replace the filament with
the cubex abs filament I don't hear the "popping" sound and no voids. could
it be the filament can anyone one suggest a place to buy filament
preferably in Canada
thanks
Tom
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7519#msg7519>
« *Reply #340 on:* December 09, 2013, 12:18:51 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7519;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Just an update from my end. I updated the CubIt and associated .ini files
to the latest evanevery posted. Running PLA with the fast setting, it
almost eliminated the voids but the first and last 5 layers were awful to
say the least. Plus the infill was going so fast I thought the cubex was
going to shake itself apart. Then I tried agian on the precise setting and
it made a nice part but the voids were all over the place again. Also with
both getting a very small puddle at the start of the first layer, but it's
something I can live with.
All the code stuff you guys are shooting out is beyond me. I understand
(somewhat) what you all are doing, but I won't attempt those kind of
changes, cause I'll really F things up.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7531#msg7531>
« *Reply #341 on:* December 09, 2013, 05:11:18 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7531;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I've been getting those random pops since the very begining of using kiss
(which was two weeks ago lol).
Every pop necessarily causes a void. However I got from "popcorn" to no
voids (practically no voids, maybe a couple in several hours) by tweaking
the temperature and prime.
It is a bit tricky, because it seems that every change in temperature
requires a change in "prime". So far "suck" had no effect whatsoever
(ranging from 0.05 to 1.0). The material is cubex white PLA.
Example settings with no voids:
218 C, prime: 0.15
210 C, prime 0.05
I'm a bit scared of trying the new cubeit, because I've never experienced
the puddle issue and I'm not sure I want to! [image: :)]
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7545#msg7545>
« *Reply #342 on:* December 09, 2013, 11:48:51 PM »
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Quote from: MattDub on December 09, 2013, 12:18:51 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7519#msg7519>
Just an update from my end. I updated the CubIt and associated .ini files
to the latest evanevery posted. Running PLA with the fast setting, it
almost eliminated the voids but the first and last 5 layers were awful to
say the least. Plus the infill was going so fast I thought the cubex was
going to shake itself apart. Then I tried agian on the precise setting and
it made a nice part but the voids were all over the place again
This REALLY sounds like Material > Flow Adjust > Min [mm^3/s] is not set
correctly.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7558#msg7558>
« *Reply #343 on:* December 10, 2013, 07:22:33 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7558;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: MattDub on December 09, 2013, 12:18:51 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7519#msg7519>
Then I tried agian on the precise setting and it made a nice part but the
voids were all over the place again.
What are your Prime and Suck settings?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7561#msg7561>
« *Reply #344 on:* December 10, 2013, 08:08:16 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7561;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I'm going to try wildbunny's suggestion and we'll see what happens.
Settings attached.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7564#msg7564>
« *Reply #345 on:* December 10, 2013, 09:37:11 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7564;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
That's what I was going to suggest. I use .05 for prime for abs and pla.
And Wildbunny is correct, the suck parameter is ignored by the machine.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7585#msg7585>
« *Reply #346 on:* December 10, 2013, 02:12:37 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7585;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Well.....using PLA the .15 prime was a little better and .05 was even a
little better, but the voids are still there. I'll try to post a pic
tomorrow of the .05 prime build. Any other suggestions?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7591#msg7591>
« *Reply #347 on:* December 10, 2013, 04:54:11 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7591;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I have been going crazy trying to get my cubex duo to work! I am using the
lastest version of kisslicer and Cubeit. The BFB file that is output from
CubeIt, I rename to a cubex and the machine can see it but it says there is
an error with the file. Anyone else have this problem? I am on firmware
1.07
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7593#msg7593>
« *Reply #348 on:* December 10, 2013, 06:19:40 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7593;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: dzynetech on December 10, 2013, 04:54:11 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7591#msg7591>
The BFB file that is output from CubeIt, I rename to a cubex and the
machine can see it but it says there is an error with the file.
Don't rename the output file. The suffix needs to be .bfb.
When you get time you should read the entire thread from the beginning.
You can skim through alot of the posts but you will find a lot of key
questions already answered.
Enjoy!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7602#msg7602>
« *Reply #349 on:* December 10, 2013, 08:20:22 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7602;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I'v had access to a CubeX printer for a week - having never 3D'd before. I
have been trying to get the best resolution I can from the CubeX and was
testing it by printing a 1 inch, 1/4-20 nut & bolt. I thought the Cubex
software was doing a cruddy job (V1.08) with few options to try to improve
it. I was delighted to find this forum and the info on KISSlicer. I
downloaded KISSlicer, the .ini files & CubeIT from this forum and followed
the instructions (thanks everyone). I've had no problems getting the CubeX
printer to print the .bfb files, but in my now three attempts to reprint
the nut and bolt from KISSSlicer they have, much to my surprise, come out
considerably worse. See pic attached. The nut and bolt to the RIGHT is from
KISSlicer and the LEFT from CubeX. My KISSlicer initial settings were as
per the posted .ini files, but I have been adjusting a few parameters
(extruder temp, jitter angle, etc., - see attached screen shot) without
much effect. Any help would be appreciated. I'll keep at it till Dec. 13
when I have to leave the site where the Cubex is. Tx. AG.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2725;image>
[image: *] photo.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2725> (1429
kB, 2592x1936 - viewed 46 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2727;image>
[image: *] KISS_style.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2727> (41.1
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7604#msg7604>
« *Reply #350 on:* December 10, 2013, 09:56:31 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7604;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: AG on December 10, 2013, 08:20:22 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7602#msg7602>
I'v had access to a CubeX printer for a week - having never 3D'd before. I
have been trying to get the best resolution I can from the CubeX and was
testing it by printing a 1 inch, 1/4-20 nut & bolt. I thought the Cubex
software was doing a cruddy job (V1.08) with few options to try to improve
it. I was delighted to find this forum and the info on KISSlicer. I
downloaded KISSlicer, the .ini files & CubeIT from this forum and followed
the instructions (thanks everyone). I've had no problems getting the CubeX
printer to print the .bfb files, but in my now three attempts to reprint
the nut and bolt from KISSSlicer they have, much to my surprise, come out
considerably worse. See pic attached. The nut and bolt to the RIGHT is from
KISSlicer and the LEFT from CubeX. My KISSlicer initial settings were as
per the posted .ini files, but I have been adjusting a few parameters
(extruder temp, jitter angle, etc., - see attached screen shot) without
much effect. Any help would be appreciated. I'll keep at it till Dec. 13
when I have to leave the site where the Cubex is. Tx. AG.
Take a look back through this forum. You need to calibrate your settings
for the material you are using. First do the thin wall calibration and
then the solid calibration. Once you have done that, I think you will see
considerably better results. Just looking at your screen shot, I can tell
that you have not completed the calibration required.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7609#msg7609>
« *Reply #351 on:* December 11, 2013, 02:24:26 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7609;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: AG on December 10, 2013, 08:20:22 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7602#msg7602>
I'v had access to a CubeX printer for a week - having never 3D'd before. I
have been trying to get the best resolution I can from the CubeX and was
testing it by printing a 1 inch, 1/4-20 nut & bolt. I thought the Cubex
software was doing a cruddy job (V1.08) with few options to try to improve
it. I was delighted to find this forum and the info on KISSlicer. I
downloaded KISSlicer, the .ini files & CubeIT from this forum and followed
the instructions (thanks everyone). I've had no problems getting the CubeX
printer to print the .bfb files, but in my now three attempts to reprint
the nut and bolt from KISSSlicer they have, much to my surprise, come out
considerably worse. See pic attached. The nut and bolt to the RIGHT is from
KISSlicer and the LEFT from CubeX. My KISSlicer initial settings were as
per the posted .ini files, but I have been adjusting a few parameters
(extruder temp, jitter angle, etc., - see attached screen shot) without
much effect. Any help would be appreciated. I'll keep at it till Dec. 13
when I have to leave the site where the Cubex is. Tx. AG.
Set extrusion width and infill extrusion width to 0.5 and number of loops
to 3.
/Michael
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7612#msg7612>
« *Reply #352 on:* December 11, 2013, 02:48:48 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7612;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
That looks like Oversample Resolution is too large and a non-calibrated
material. KS needs to be calibrated to the material being used, otherwise
you get rafts that are solid and extrusions oozing all over the place, due
to too much extrusion volume. Search the forum for "Thin Wall Calibration".
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7961#msg7961>
« *Reply #353 on:* December 11, 2013, 05:37:03 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7961;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
This part was run about 3 or 4 weeks ago. Cubify ABS, .125 Layer, prime
and suck .25 maybe .5 (can't remember), speed was probably 17.5-22.5-34
(medium), temps 230-250-140. Lots of blow holes!
This part was run today. Same material, same part, .125 layer, prime and
suck 0.05, speeds 25-30-38 (fast). No blow holes.
Most important IMHO is this reel has spent the last 3 or 4 weeks in a bag
with a pouch of dessicant.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2729;image>
[image: *] Abs_Left.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2729> (246.94
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<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2731;image>
[image: *] Abs_Right.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2731> (257.23
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<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2733;image>
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg8017#msg8017>
« *Reply #354 on:* December 11, 2013, 06:15:56 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=8017;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
A 1/4-20 thread is getting on the small side for this machine.
PLA_bolt, layer .25, speed fast 25-30-38, prime&suck .05, temps 210-230-150
ABS_bolt, layer .125, speed fast, p&s .05, temps 230-250-150
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2735;image>
[image: *] PLA_bolt.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2735> (207.8
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<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2737;image>
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg8260#msg8260>
« *Reply #355 on:* December 11, 2013, 09:05:18 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=8260;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on December 11, 2013, 05:37:03 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7961#msg7961>
Most important IMHO is this reel has spent the last 3 or 4 weeks in a bag
with a pouch of dessicant.
I rest my case...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9029#msg9029>
« *Reply #356 on:* December 12, 2013, 01:12:26 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9029;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Hey guys, I just got back in town and I'm trying to catch up here...
The first thing you should understand is that it doesn't matter what you
set your prime and suck to be in Kisslicer... If you are using CubeIt to
post-process the kisslicer output, then the kisslicer prime and suck
settings will be replaced with the ones that are set in your CubeIt.ini.
CubeIt will use the appropriate ABS/PLA block from your CubeIt.ini file to
re-organize and set your Prime/Suck/Purge parameters.
We already know that the CubeX printer does NOT follow standardized
parameters for these settings. I'm all for using as much of the Kisslicer
settings as possible, but they simply don't get implemented in a way that
is appropriate for the proprietary format the CubeX is expecting. This is
exactly why CubeIt has 4 different Prime?Suck/Purge blocks in the INI file.
If you would like to adjust prime/suck/purge parameters (M227/M228/M55x),
then you should make these adjustments in the CubeIt.ini file (if you are
post-processing with CubeIt). Otherwise any changes you make in Kisslicer
are simply thrown away as they will not be implemented or organized
correctly anyway for our proprietary printer.
>---
Also, I did completely eliminate the popping and voids in my prints by
using the latest version of CubeIt. If someone has a very simple model for
me to try and print (which has pops/voids/puddles), please post the
original STL file, let me know what material you are using and which
profile and I'll run it through my machine... I really would like to be
able to replicate any problems that are being seen so I can try and figure
out what is different than what I am doing...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9219#msg9219>
« *Reply #357 on:* December 12, 2013, 03:17:06 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9219;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 12, 2013, 01:12:26 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9029#msg9029>
Also, I did completely eliminate the popping and voids in my prints by
using the latest version of CubeIt. If someone has a very simple model for
me to try and print (which has pops/voids/puddles), please post the
original STL file, let me know what material you are using and which
profile and I'll run it through my machine... I really would like to be
able to replicate any problems that are being seen so I can try and figure
out what is different than what I am doing...
They're using different material. That you don't have popping on one part
most probably will mean that you won't have popping on their parts. The
shape of the part, which is all that will be changed, doesn't make any
difference.
When *they* use the latest version of CubeIt, do not change the material,
and no popping occurs, then that will tell us something.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9695#msg9695>
« *Reply #358 on:* December 12, 2013, 08:43:56 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9695;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Does anyone have a good recommendation for desiccant and or a good supplier
to purchase from?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9773#msg9773>
« *Reply #359 on:* December 12, 2013, 09:53:05 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9773;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Well my two weeks with the CubeX has drawn to a close. Just a note to say
thanks to all who have posted to this thread with the useful tips, code and
suggestions and replies to my earlier posting on improving the print
quality of my nut and bolt (see earlier posting). What I have learned is
that simply tweaking various parameters is not the solution to achieving
the best print quality. That has resulted in little improvement in the
print quality and sometimes a detriment. Clearly the material calibrations
are a fundamental step, but unfortunately not one I have had time to
undertake. Despite not having improved the print resolution of my nut and
bolt (see earlier posting), I have to say that this forum, the availability
of KISSlicer (as opposed to the limiting CubeX software) has considerably
improved my perceptions of the utility of the CubeX printer. It's too bad
about the disadvantages of the closed-source approach taken by the company
to the CubeX and the limitations imposed by material cartridges. Thanks to
all. AG
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9837#msg9837>
« *Reply #360 on:* December 12, 2013, 10:42:10 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9837;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on December 12, 2013, 08:43:56 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9695#msg9695>
Does anyone have a good recommendation for desiccant and or a good supplier
to purchase from?
http://ProtoParadigm.com/ <http://protoparadigm.com/> has a type the
changes color when it is used up and when it is viable. Haven't purchased
any as yet, because I take the packets that come in the reels that I buy
and dehydrate them for reuse.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9848#msg9848>
« *Reply #361 on:* December 12, 2013, 10:50:03 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9848;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: AG on December 12, 2013, 09:53:05 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9773#msg9773>
Well my two weeks with the CubeX has drawn to a close. Just a note to say
thanks to all who have posted to this thread with the useful tips, code and
suggestions and replies to my earlier posting on improving the print
quality of my nut and bolt
Thank you for the note. I hoped that withing the short time you had, that
some greater advancements could have been made. It does take time and
effort, however. Perhaps there will be an opportunity down the line where
what we have shared will be of service.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9900#msg9900>
« *Reply #362 on:* December 12, 2013, 11:27:53 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9900;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 12, 2013, 10:42:10 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9837#msg9837>
Quote from: bkjnky on December 12, 2013, 08:43:56 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9695#msg9695>
Does anyone have a good recommendation for desiccant and or a good supplier
to purchase from?
http://ProtoParadigm.com/ <http://protoparadigm.com/> has a type the
changes color when it is used up and when it is viable. Haven't purchased
any as yet, because I take the packets that come in the reels that I buy
and dehydrate them for reuse.
Do you use an oven or does a food dehydrator work?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9993#msg9993>
« *Reply #363 on:* December 13, 2013, 12:47:36 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9993;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
We got a dehydrator just for the purpose of drying out filament reels and
the desiccant packets go in there.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10401#msg10401>
« *Reply #364 on:* December 13, 2013, 06:11:48 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10401;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 12, 2013, 03:17:06 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9219#msg9219>
They're using different material. That you don't have popping on one part
most probably will mean that you won't have popping on their parts. The
shape of the part, which is all that will be changed, doesn't make any
difference.
Thats *exactly* why I asked for the STL file, the type of material they are
using, and the style they are printing with. So I can reproduce the
problem environment. (I have PLA loaded in my first extruder so its not a
problem for me to switch materials and duplicate someone elses environment).
Since I am not having any issues (puddles/gaps/popping) I obviously need to
replicate the issue before I can attempt to resolve it...
I am also very curious if folks can take the time to confirm that CubeIt is
really integrated properly (Do you have a *.BFB.BAK file in addition to
your *.BFB file?) and also if the INI PSP section inserts are being
performed
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10611#msg10611>
« *Reply #365 on:* December 13, 2013, 08:48:15 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10611;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
HELP I have tried to find the explanation of thin calibration but I either
don't under stand it or not looking in the right place can some one point
me in the right direction
Thanks
Tom
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10684#msg10684>
« *Reply #366 on:* December 13, 2013, 09:44:33 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10684;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Attached is Penske's write up. I could not find the original post (I did
look). Unfortunately when you search for "thin wall calibration" you get a
list of postings telling you to search for thin wall calibration.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10695#msg10695>
« *Reply #367 on:* December 13, 2013, 09:53:15 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10695;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
McMaster Carr also sells desiccant.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#desiccant-bags/=psiygx
At the last place I worked I used to "re dry" desiccant in a toaster oven.
I can't remember what temperature I used. I would cook it until it turned
color. Google might be able to fine 1 or 2 articles on the subject.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10697#msg10697>
« *Reply #368 on:* December 13, 2013, 09:54:08 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10697;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
I pushed out the latest version of CubeIt just before going out of town. I
think there may be some confusion of exactly what CubeIt is now doing. I
wanted to get this out before I left. I don't THINK their are any issues
with the software, but perhaps I can take a little more time to document
what we THINK we know, and exactly what CubeIt is doing...
- It appears that the CubeX printer is not using industry standard
commands to establish Prime and Suck settings on the extruders. We are
pretty sure we know this because the way M227 and M228 commands are always
stacked together by the native CubeX slicer software (normally M228 would
negate an M227) and that the M228 command specifically has some additional
parameters. Because of this, it appears we need a way to manually override
the industry standard GCODE which would normally be sent to a standard
printer, with some other construct appropriate for the CubeX. Since
KISSLICER is generating industry standard code, in an industry standard
way, we can not really adjust the associated settings (Prime/Suck) in the
KISSLICER interface and expect it to generate code which is appropriate for
our proprietary CubeX printer (in any case). So, we need an alternative
way to control these settings (CubeIt). If you are using CubeIt to modify
the indiustry standard code produced by KISSLICER, you need to be quite
aware that any changes you make to PRIME and SUCK in the KS interface are
simply discarded and replaced by settings established in the CubeIt.ini
file. IOW - If you are using CubeIt, then ANY changes you are making to
the Prime/Suck settings in KS will be ignored. If you want to try and
adjust Prime/Suck when using CubeIt, simply edit the values in the INI
file...
- So why doesn't CubeIt simply use the Prime/Suck settings that KS puts
into the print file? Because, no one (to my knowledge) has successfully
determined or documented how the CubeX printer uses the information being
sent to it in its proprietary M227/M228 commands. Its pretty obvious when
you look at the native code produced by the CubeX slicer software, that
something unusual is going on with these commands. (M228 is not even
supposed to have any parameters)... So, until we understand how CubeX is
interpreting these commands, there is little point in trying to take the
standard Kisslicer Codes and regenerate them into a format appropriate for
the CubeX. (However, once we figure this all out, I will gladly update
CubeIt to do this automatically).
- So, if we don't understand how CubeX is currently using its proprietary
M227/M228 commands, what can we do? Well, we can try and copy what the
code output by the native CubeX slicer is doing. Although we may not
completely understand how CubeX is using these commands, we can certainly
try and emulate what is being done in its native environment. This is
precisely, what CubeIt is now doing.
- During my testing, I generated 4 test prints using the native CubeX
slicer:
PLA (Extruder 1)
PLA (Extruder 2)
ABS (Extruder 1)
ABS (Extruder 2)
- In examining the four test prints, I was able to extract a bunch of info
as follows:
1. The CubeX software always bundles the M227 commands with the M228
Commands. Whenever an M227 (Prime/Suck) is generated an M228 is always
send immediately afterwards.
2. The M228 has two non-standard parameters so it is unlikely to be
interpreted as a standard "Prime/Suck disable" command.
3. The M227/M228 pairs always follow an extruder temp setting
(M104/M204/M304) and nozzle purge command (M551/M552/M553) command. IOW:
The native code blocks always appears as follows (x = extruder number):
Mx04 ... (Set Temp)
M55x ... (Purge)
M227 ... (Set Prime/Suck)
M228 ... (Disable Prime/Suck)
4. For a particular extruder: The M55x/M227/M228 parameters specified in
the very use (first layer) will be different than those used in the
remainder of the file (rest of the layers). IOW: For a given extruder,
there are basically two sets of "PSP" (Prime, Suck, Purge) code blocks
which are used: 1 for the "first" layer, and 1 for the "rest" of the layers.
5. The orientation of the Purge (M55x) commands to the Prime/Suck) pairs
(M227/M228) also seems to change depending on whether the setting is being
established for the first layer or remaining layers. The Purge (M55x) is
done before setting the Prime/Suck (M227/M228) in the first layer, but
AFTER the prime/suck in subsequent layers. The numerical parameters for
the M55x also changes depending on whether it is for the first layer or
subsequent layers...
6. The parameter values in the PSP code blocks also differ between PLA and
ABS.
7. Therefore, it appears we have a total of 4 possible PSP Code blocks:
ABS First Layer. ABS Remaining Layers, PLA First Layer, PLA Remaining
Layers. These are the code blocks you will see in the CubeIt INI file.
The values I have put into the INI file are the ones which precisely
correspond to the ones seen in the Native CubeX slicer print files:
[PSPBlock ABS First]
Line1=M55x P99 S150.000
Line2=M227 P99 S201
Line3=M228 P0 S73
[PSPBlock ABS Rest]
Line1=M227 P99 S201
Line2=M228 P0 S73
Line3=M55x P2499 S150.000
[PSPBlock PLA First]
Line1=M55x P163 S80.000
Line2=M227 P163 S230
Line3=M228 P0 S163
[PSPBlock PLA Rest]
Line1=M227 P163 S230
Line2=M228 P0 S163
Line3=M55x P6000 S80.000
- So CubeIt scans the Kisslicer print file:
a. CubeIt watches for any "Mx04" commands to keep track of the current
extruder temp. It uses this to determine whether the extruder is using PLA
(<230) or ABS >230). This is the function of the "threshold" temp setting
in the CubeIt.ini file.
b. CubeIt watches to see what extruder is currently being referenced and
keeps track of the number of times an extruder is called. It uses this
info to determine whether we will be using the "FIRST" or "REST" PSP block
from the INI file for the associated material.
c. When an extruder PURGE command is located (each time an extruder is
placed in service), CubeIT simply REPLACES that "M55x" with the appropriate
PSP code block from CubeIt.INI (PLA First, PLA Rest, ABS First, or ABS
Rest).
d. Since the PSP Blocks specified in CubeIt.ini already include a
Prime/Suck Command (M227), any additional M227's in the original KISSLICER
print file are simply discarded (usually a couple of lines after the
associated M55x). KISSLICER does not generate any M228's, but we must
provide them anyway, since CubeX interprets them in some proprietary manner.
So....
If you want to try and adjust your Prime/Suck settings (M227/M228), you
should do this by editing the corresponding CubeIt.ini PSP Block(s) - NOT
by making adjustments in the KISSLICER interface (those values just get
discarded in any case).
Similarly, if you want to try and tweak your Purge settings (M55x), those
should also be done in the CubeIt.ini file for the very same reason.
With the 4 PSP blocks in the CubeIt.ini file, we should be able to emulate
the behavior of the native CubeX slicer software (even if we don't fully
understand it, or agree with it). We should also be able to tweak these
settings if we want to make some adjustments or run some experiments.
The values that I provided in my default CubeIt.ini file is simply the same
values that are being used by the native CubeX Slicer. I have every reason
to believe this is a good place to start - even if we don't fully
understand how they are being used (yet)...
I have some other thoughts on printer speeds, but I'll post separately for
that...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10709#msg10709>
« *Reply #369 on:* December 13, 2013, 10:03:46 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10709;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Thanks ill look at that
Tom
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10734#msg10734>
« *Reply #370 on:* December 13, 2013, 10:19:41 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10734;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Printer Speeds: I ran some sample prints a while back from the native
CubeX slicer to re-establish my print speeds. I am typically printing with
ABS and I ran two print samples through the native CubeX slicer. One at
DRAFT speed and one at NORMAL. KISSLICER would call these FAST and PRECISE
respectively. The numbers that I saw *for ABS* would roughly equate to the
following KISSLICER settings:
ABS FAST: 30/58/66 (Perimeter/Solid Infill Support/Sparse Infill Support)
ABS PRECISE: 17/28/38 (Perimeter/Solid Infill Support/Sparse Infill
Support)
XY Travel Speed: 500
1st Layer Max Speed: 28
I'm going to generate another set of CS native print files with PLA to see
if/how they might be different. I'll post that information shortly.
I should also note that all of my actual print tests have been at the
PRECISE setting, since I saw absolutely no value in running anything at
FAST speeds until I good good quality at PRECISE speeds (which I now
have). (And all were with ABS...)
One important thing to note is that KISSLICER does NOT appear to support
multiple speed settings to differ between ABS and PLA materials (should
this become necessary)...
If you "want to play along", I suggest you get a copy of the v1.07 CubeX
slicer software as it generates a clear text BFB file in addition to the
encrypted CUBEX file. For CubeX, the leftover (pre-encryption) file
appears to have been a "bug", for us, it is a powerful "feature" of that
particular version. You can examine/compare the contents of that leftover
BFB file to see the actual commands that are being generated in clear text
GCode... A link to the older v1.07 software was posted a bunch of messages
back in this thread...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10792#msg10792>
« *Reply #371 on:* December 13, 2013, 11:01:35 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10792;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
I should have clarified this in my post regarding the "blow holes" and the
bolts. I am essentially running CubeIt version 2. The one that only moves
the M227 command. So the Prime and Suck of .05 that I posted is what I am
sending to the machine. That is my current setup for "production" parts.
I was mainly trying to show the importance of dry filament.
I am doing my own research on the CURSE OF M227! I mean prime and suck. So
far nothing to report.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10805#msg10805>
« *Reply #372 on:* December 13, 2013, 11:12:06 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10805;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
I ran 4 print jobs through the native CubeX slicer. My test model did not
have a lot of thickness so its hard to differentiate if/how the CS Slicer
differentiates between what Kisslicer would call Perimeter and Infill
settings. Anyway, regarding ABS and PLA print speeds, I believe the
following info would be an accurate representation of how the print speeds
are being reflected wrt ABS/PLA and PRECISE/FAST...
(Note that the GCODE values in the print files are mm/min and Kisslicer
wants mm/sec so be sure to divide anything you see in GCODE by 60 to get a
comparable KS setting)
XY Max Travel (All): 500 mm/sec
1st Layer print speeds:
Fast Precise
ABS 13 20
PLA 28 28
Rest Layer Print Speeds:
Fast Precise
ABS 54 26
PLA 58 16
Yes - The first layer print speed for ABS in Draft/Fast mode does appear to
be SLOWER than that used in the Normal/Precise mode. I'm not trying to
justify these values - just document them. Again, its really hard to see
any variation for INFILL speeds. There is some additional speed variation
in these files, but it does not appear to be anything striking and its hard
to tell why its being done...
I'll try and run some some actual PLA prints this weekend. However...
If you're having print problems (Popping/Voids/Puddles), PLEASE BE SURE you
have CubeIt integrated properly. (If you don't get a *.BFB.BAK file along
with your *.BFB file then CubeIt is not running at all as a post processor).
If you want to tweak your Prime/Suck/Purge commands you need to do this in
the CubeIt.ini file (not within KISSLICER)...
If you want to tweak your printer speeds, you should do this within
KISSLICER...
Based on my results, I don't believe that my problem with
popping/gaps/voids had anything to do with moisture in the filament. I
had this problem all through my model until I used the latest copy of
CubeIt to resolve it and now its COMPLETELY gone. Same filament, extruder,
etc. So, in my case, it had nothing to do with my filament and appears to
have been generated by inappropriate Prime/Suck settings sucking air back
into the extruder...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10811#msg10811>
« *Reply #373 on:* December 13, 2013, 11:14:40 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10811;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on December 13, 2013, 11:01:35 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10792#msg10792>
I should have clarified this in my post regarding the "blow holes" and the
bolts. I am essentially running CubeIt version 2.
I would recommend you use the latest version of CubeIt as it provides more
functionality and much better results. (although it works in a slightly
different manner).
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10830#msg10830>
« *Reply #374 on:* December 13, 2013, 11:28:16 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10830;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Are you using a heated build plate?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10833#msg10833>
« *Reply #375 on:* December 13, 2013, 11:30:49 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10833;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Yes
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10938#msg10938>
« *Reply #376 on:* December 13, 2013, 12:45:11 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10938;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
A heated bed is on my to do list one of these days.
What do you use to lubricate the slides?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10958#msg10958>
« *Reply #377 on:* December 13, 2013, 12:59:48 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10958;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
a very light coating of teflon or wd40
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10986#msg10986>
« *Reply #378 on:* December 13, 2013, 01:19:46 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10986;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
I had not thought of teflon. I have not tried wd-40 even though Cubify
recommended it. I am used to much heavier and larger machinery and equally
heavy grease or way oil.
Our Cubex is actually our 2nd one. The first one came from England and had
shipping damage. Plus it was turning into a lemon. This one came from
South Carolina but the extruders had obviously been hot (for a while)
before. Maybe a demo unit. Anyway one bearing was squeaking a bit. I
tried a light instrument oil which did not take care of the squeak.
Silicone made it worse. Now I am running a light synthetic grease which
has finally quieted the bearing.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11020#msg11020>
« *Reply #379 on:* December 13, 2013, 01:41:41 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11020;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
I think you want to be very careful about what lube you use as it can also
attract dust and crap. I just put a little on the threads with a small
brush and then manually run the bed up and down a couple of times to
distribute it. A little goes a long way...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11029#msg11029>
« *Reply #380 on:* December 13, 2013, 01:46:28 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11029;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
You really need a heated bed if you are going to print with ABS. The
heated bed (with Kapton tape as a print surface) virtually eliminates any
warping of ABS parts. I did relocate the auxiliary Z-Sensor they sent
though as the new installation location and instructions were far from
optimal.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11049#msg11049>
« *Reply #381 on:* December 13, 2013, 01:59:42 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11049;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Lube - Agreed!
Bed - Thanks!!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11053#msg11053>
« *Reply #382 on:* December 13, 2013, 02:01:51 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11053;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 13, 2013, 06:11:48 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10401#msg10401>
Thats *exactly* why I asked for the STL file, the type of material they are
using, and the style they are printing with. So I can reproduce the
problem environment. (I have PLA loaded in my first extruder so its not a
problem for me to switch materials and duplicate someone elses environment).
You're still missing the core concept. Stop thinking only from the software
point of view. In order to "duplicate someone elses environment", you would
have to have them ship you *a section of the material that they are using*.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11057#msg11057>
« *Reply #383 on:* December 13, 2013, 02:04:36 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11057;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 13, 2013, 12:59:48 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10958#msg10958>
a very light coating of teflon or wd40
Teflon or instrument oil, yes. Silicone is good if it will play well with
the lubricant that is already in place. WD40 isn't really a great lubricant
that will stand up to pressure and high speed use.
« *Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 02:07:01 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11074#msg11074>
« *Reply #384 on:* December 13, 2013, 02:15:28 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11074;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Have you tried P1 in M228 yet?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11077#msg11077>
« *Reply #385 on:* December 13, 2013, 02:16:38 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11077;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 13, 2013, 02:01:51 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11053#msg11053>
You're still missing the core concept. Stop thinking only from the software
point of view. In order to "duplicate someone elses environment", you would
have to have them ship you *a section of the material that they are using*.
Lets try the EASY stuff first, then we can worry about shipping stuff back
and forth if it doesn't play out...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11088#msg11088>
« *Reply #386 on:* December 13, 2013, 02:24:32 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11088;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 13, 2013, 11:12:06 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10805#msg10805>
Based on my results, I don't believe that my problem with
popping/gaps/voids had anything to do with moisture in the filament. I
had this problem all through my model until I used the latest copy of
CubeIt to resolve it and now its COMPLETELY gone. Same filament, extruder,
etc. So, in my case, it had nothing to do with my filament and appears to
have been generated by inappropriate Prime/Suck settings sucking air back
into the extruder...
I'd offer that, scientifically speaking, it *may* not have had anything to
do with filament. At this point there isn't enough data to pull a
conclusion and it just as easily could have been a coincidence. Yes, I know
you want to test other's models to try to get more data. (see the other
post) Looking at the issue, as it has been described by many users, it
really doesn't completely point to P/S. P/S very well may be a contributing
factor and I congratulate you on this effort. However, pops and voids in
the middle of a path would not point to P/S as being the only problem. At
the start of a layer, yes. In the middle of one, where the extruder should
long have reached a stable state, no. Please apply Occam's Razor in
considering this.
« *Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 02:26:52 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11121#msg11121>
« *Reply #387 on:* December 13, 2013, 02:49:59 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11121;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 13, 2013, 02:16:38 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11077#msg11077>
Lets try the EASY stuff first, then we can worry about shipping stuff back
and forth if it doesn't play out...
Agreed, as long as it yields meaningful data that isn't noise. It will form
a baseline for further tests. Personally, I like to choose the test that
will yield the most pertinent data first and refine down from there.
« *Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 02:52:52 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg12492#msg12492>
« *Reply #388 on:* *Today* at 08:52:45 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=12492;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
I tried the new CubeIt version but get also some voids.
So I am back, running with the original Kisslicer and CubeIt and get great
prints with no voids or puddles (ABS and PLA).
I tweaked some settings in KS which seem to work well.
See attached pdf file with screen shots of all the settings. (also attached
settings in zipped file).
Those settings are for 0.25 layer. The 1.15 flow tweak, 0.59 extrusion
width and 0.3 infill overlap give me clean and accurate parts.
Also, I keep speeds for detailed parts at: 15/25/25 and 20/25/25 for less
detailed parts. If you go faster I find it is not as clean in some areas.
I am using cubeX filament that I keep stored in bags with extra desiccant.
Evanevery,
It would be great if Kisslicer would handle multishell parts and treat them
as joined (like for example the CubeX software, but that's the only thing
it does better). Also for example if you add in "helper disks" at the
bottom of a part on the platform, and the parts overlap, it also does not
treat them as joined.
Also, for new CubeX / Kisslicer users, it would be great if the BedCubX.stl
is included in the CubeIt zip file and the Bed Center x default is set to
-35, that would make it more plug and play. - Just a thought. - I attached
the .stl in the zip file below.
Kisslicer is great !
thank you!
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kB - downloaded 6 times.)
[image: *] CubeX_Kisslicer-CubeIt_12-14-2013.zip<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2749> (663.74
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« *Last Edit: Today at 09:05:49 AM by 1looooopy1* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg13088#msg13088>
« *Reply #389 on:* *Today* at 03:46:05 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=13088;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on *Today* at 08:52:45 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg12492#msg12492>
I tried the new CubeIt version but get also some voids.
So I am back, running with the original Kisslicer and CubeIt and get great
prints with no voids or puddles (ABS and PLA).
I'm really at a loss here... I can NOT duplicate any Voids, Gaps, or
Puddles. Those are EXACTLY the items that were eliminated with the latest
version (v3) of CubeIt. So I really would suggest you make sure you have
the latest version integrated properly (Note that the INI file structure
had changed - maybe your running with the prior version INI file?) If your
seeing voids/gaps/puddles, I really believe you must not have CubeIt
integrated properly or are using an older INI file... I really would LOVE
for someone to prove me wrong on this though if it truly is NOT the case!
Anyway, I'm about to post another version (v4.0). I'm testing it right
now. I'll explain what I've found, and also why the newest version is
different:
I ran some test prints (CubeIt V3) using PLA, and although all my test
produced PERFECT prints (No Puddles, Gaps, or Voids), I was able to
reproduce a reported issue with the extruder skipping during the purge
cycle. I ran this a couple of times and noted that the extruder always
skipped on the SECOND purge (as it lowered the nozzle temp just after doing
the first layer). The first purge was fine, but the second purge skipped
the extruder a bit. (The print still turned out just fine) So I was off
comparing outputs from the native CubeX slicer to see what they were doing
differently...
I have noted that the material temps being suggested in this forum are VERY
DIFFERENT (lower) than what the native CubeX slicer uses! If our temps are
currently so much lower, this could explain why we saw some extruder
skipping when using exactly the same purge/prime/suck commands... Here is
a little table of the material temps I have seen being generated by the
native CubeX slicer:
Normal Speed Draft Speed
PLA First Layer 250 230
Rest Layers 205 215
ABS First Layer 280 280
Rest Layers 262 280
Even using the same Prime/Suck/Purge commands, we could certainly have some
extruder skipping with the lower temps we have been discussing (more
viscous material). The obvious solution to this would be to use material
temps more in line with what the Native CubeX Slicer does (Set These In
KISSLICER), or reduce the extruder rotation speeds (Set these in the M55x
commands In the associated blocks in the CubeIt.INI File).
Personally, I'm going to push my material temps up a little in KISSLICER.
However, given the wide range of temps we are potentially working with, and
with the possibility of the higher PLA temps actually exceeding some of the
lower ABS temps, the technique of declaring a threshold temp in the
CubeIt.ini file (to determine whether PLA or ABS is currently being
extruded) may no longer be valid. So, I've made some changes to the way
Version 4 of CubeIt determines PLA vs ABS for a particular extruder (so it
can swap in the proper "PSP" group from the INI File). V4 is still in
test, but I expect to post it tomorrow after I complete a few more
tests... Anyway...
The upcoming version of CubeIt no longer uses the THRESHOLD setting to
determine PLA or ABS for a particular nozzle. CubeIt now pre-processes the
KISSLICER print file and looks through the comments to read the material
names for each extruder. Kisslicer puts a lot of info in the print file
comments so this would make a more reliable method of determining an
extruder material. Two things need to be noted here:
1. With the newest upcoming version of CubeIt, you MUST leave the
KISSLICER COMMENTS ENABLED so CubeIt can read them and use them. (CubeIt
will ultimately discard all comments anyway as it makes the CubeX BFB file).
2. There will be two new Keys (ABS_KEY, PLA_KEY) in the CubeIt.ini file to
help determine if a material is ABS or PLA (from info in the KISSLICER
comments). Since you can name a material anything you want, we need to
search for some common substring in the material name to identify ABS or
PLA. By default, ABS_KEY="ABS" and PLA_KEY="PLA". So as long as you have
"ABS" somewhere in the name of your ABS material, CubeIt will know its
ABS. Same thing goes for "PLA". Hopefully, the default values will work
just fine as folks always have "ABS" somewhere in their ABS material name
and "PLA" somewhere in their PLA material name. (However, you can change
these keys if you want to...)
3. I also added a Version Check feature for the INI so CubeIt can confirm
that the structure and settings in its INI file are indeed appropriate for
the version of the executable being run. Error checking and notification
is more robust and there is also a summary screen showing extruder/file
info after the post processing is complete...
I'll likely be posting the new version (V4) tomorrow...
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CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5069#msg5069>
« *on:* May 09, 2013, 07:46:40 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5069;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Does any one have settings that work with the CubeX printer?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5072#msg5072>
« *Reply #1 on:* May 09, 2013, 12:08:26 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5072;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
I'm not really sure that any other slicer will work with those. 3D Systems
is increasingly closed and proprietary. Before they discontinued the 3D
Touch and Rapman printers without notice, and then made the 3D Touch into
their CubeX with its expensive proprietary filament canisters, they
introduced a new version of their slicer that outputs encrypted print
files, so you can't make any alterations or see what they are doing with
their print profiles.
« *Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 01:39:27 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5082#msg5082>
« *Reply #2 on:* May 09, 2013, 04:55:22 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5082;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Yea I can not see what they are outputting, but the printer will work with
regular g-code(I am told) so I was wondering if someone did the work to
figure it all out, If not we will have to try until we get it working. the
software for the printer is...not good.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5084#msg5084>
« *Reply #3 on:* May 09, 2013, 07:29:12 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5084;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: kozlojak on May 09, 2013, 04:55:22 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5082#msg5082>
Yea I can not see what they are outputting, but the printer will work with
regular g-code(I am told) so I was wondering if someone did the work to
figure it all out, If not we will have to try until we get it working. the
software for the printer is...not good.
The 3D Touch on the firmware required to parse their encrypted garbage from
Axon3 would read G-code. We raised a stink about it. Probably a
contributing reason why they dumped the line. Haven't heard anything about
the CubeX and G-code capability but, if it does read it and prints well
using it, I'd strongly wager that those days are also numbered. They do a
lot of stuff that herds you into where they want you to be. Finally come
out with a fix for this problem or that and, gee, you have to flash the
firmware to use it. Then the printer doesn't work as well as it did
previously and, surprise, you can't roll-back to the earlier firmware. More
than a few bricked their machines; flashing the new firmware that wasn't
adequately tested prior to release. I never stepped on that land mine.
Important job in the studio and just didn't want to take the chance of
having the printer down. Then I watched as all the complaints came flying
in.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5165#msg5165>
« *Reply #4 on:* May 13, 2013, 10:24:39 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5165;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Where did you hear that it accepts regular g-code?
Assuming that that's true, the next question is how you send files to the
printer: Place them on a thumb drive/SD card, send them over a network
connection, open them in some special "send to printer" software? Is there
some step in the STL->printed object process where you can look at the
sliced file and edit/replace it?
Assuming that all of the above is possible, it looks like the Cube X is
heavily based on the 3D Touch, so that's the firmware I'd try slicing for.
Just make a very simple test object (perhaps even just a few movement
commands hand-coded), rename the file with whatever extension the Cube X
expects, and try printing it. See what errors you get, if any.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5195#msg5195>
« *Reply #5 on:* May 14, 2013, 06:57:03 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5195;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Well, I can open the gcode file and view it on the cube3d software. and
when i put it on a USB key the printer will list it but has an error while
it is reading the file.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5197#msg5197>
« *Reply #6 on:* May 14, 2013, 08:42:36 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5197;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
If you can open a regular g-code file in the cube3d software, can you also
save it?
As for the printer error, I'd guess it's either a checksum error or a
complaint about the format, although it could be an issue with the actual
g-code commands. Can you post the exact text of the error?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5200#msg5200>
« *Reply #7 on:* May 14, 2013, 10:24:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5200;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Robw,
While the software can open it, it grays out the build and save icon. as
for the error, it just says error reading file.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5201#msg5201>
« *Reply #8 on:* May 14, 2013, 10:37:25 AM »
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Try turning off comments.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5207#msg5207>
« *Reply #9 on:* May 14, 2013, 02:06:02 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5207;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: kozlojak on May 14, 2013, 06:57:03 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5195#msg5195>
Well, I can open the gcode file and view it on the cube3d software.
Quote from: kozlojak on May 14, 2013, 10:24:31 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5200#msg5200>
While the software can open it, it grays out the build and save icon.
Unclear whether you are viewing the code or the model? Sounds more like the
latter.
What Sublime suggested about comments is true. BfB printers used to choke
on them but I thought that Jonathan fixed that by limiting the line length.
Since then, I've never tried it with them turned on.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5227#msg5227>
« *Reply #10 on:* May 15, 2013, 03:41:50 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5227;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
We are starting to see the CubeX owners emerging into the market place.
I hope we can sort out the CUBEX. As a BFB owner i would like to see theses
machine sorted. I will do what ever I can to help engineer a way for the
owners over come this locked down system. Even as far as replacing the
controller.
good luck.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5263#msg5263>
« *Reply #11 on:* May 15, 2013, 05:18:40 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5263;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Here is the information I have on the bfbe files that are generated by its
software
here is a example of a decrypted file:
http://pastebin.com/VXH1dhaX
I also have the blowfish key that is used to decrypt it. Not sure if I
should post that here
it uses blowfish-compat ECB
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5279#msg5279>
« *Reply #12 on:* May 16, 2013, 04:31:50 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5279;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
after some more testing, it will read the file after it is decrypted and
you can change Checksum to NO and it will not complain about that. so if
you add this to the header and change the material type as needed(
http://pastebin.com/kmJKwJUg <http://pastebin.com/kmJKwJUg>) the printer
will print. I don't think time maters and the materiallength is just used
to be sure there will be enough left in the cartridge to print the E1 at
the end of some of the setting is for extruder 1) I can make a kiss file
(with no comments) and it will read and start to print.
^Firmware:V1.03
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:26
^MaterialLengthE1: 3459
^MaterialCodeE1: 215
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5282#msg5282>
« *Reply #13 on:* May 16, 2013, 07:45:24 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5282;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Genius! Good timing, too...I'm trying to collect some good profiles for
common machines.
thanks!
Jonathan
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5285#msg5285>
« *Reply #14 on:* May 16, 2013, 09:13:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5285;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
I am working out the settings for this printer, but 1 item I can not seem
to change is the prime at the beginning of the print, is primes far too
much and causes the extruder to skip
This is the bad info:
; begin wipe
M542
; prime extruder
M551 P32000 S900
; end wipe
M543
I need to replace M551 P32000 S900 with M551 P1500 S150
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5303#msg5303>
« *Reply #15 on:* May 16, 2013, 09:32:37 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5303;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Skip?
I actually changed mine from P32000 S900 to P57000 S600. This is 600 lower
P than what Axon does. The default RPM for this in Axon is 60. 90, IMO, is
too fast for a first prime anyway. After this is complete, the firmware
continues with a lower RPM prime, then the head leaves the wipe box. It
ensures that the extruder is fully ready and I have had better results
after making this change in the G-code inserts.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5311#msg5311>
« *Reply #16 on:* May 17, 2013, 11:58:39 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5311;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Here are the settings I am using right now, I am still fine tuning a few
things but it is looking better then the default software for sure. I have
also attached the python script for inserting the header and fixing the
prime lines(very rough script) I have also noticed that when the job is
done some plastic will be left on the end of the head and cause it to hit
and break off when you start the next print, so try to clean it off after
the print.
script: http://pastebin.com/QtGyNnpt
Settings:
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5312#msg5312>
« *Reply #17 on:* May 17, 2013, 12:26:18 PM »
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What KS version are you using? Those screens are really old.
And, not that it matters once you get on a current version, but 43mm/Rev
... not likely, unless they've made a major change in the extruders; which
I wouldn't think they would do--they took everything *else* from the 3D
Touch.
I measured 1.0297. Others came in within a few hundredths of that; both by
physical measurement and calculations. The value has been hard-coded in
later versions. Flow is still adjustable by other means.
« *Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 12:37:33 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5314#msg5314>
« *Reply #18 on:* May 17, 2013, 12:52:31 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5314;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
wow, not sure where/how I got such an old version. downloaded the new one
and will play with it next week.
I assure you that is the correct value, I get very good prints with it.
With the cubex software on the printer display the extruder rpm would be
1-5 rpm during a print. I get similar with this setup.
I assume with the new software I can use gain to increase the value? Is the
hard coded value multiplied by the gain? and what is the hard coded value?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5316#msg5316>
« *Reply #19 on:* May 17, 2013, 06:19:54 PM »
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Well, the extruder must have changed. The 3D Touch, that is the essence of
A CubeX, uses a threaded rod lead screw and pressure rollers to push the
filament against the rotating lead screw. I measured the grooves on a
length of filament removed from the extruder and got the value I posted
above. After a bit of discussion, the value that is hard-coded was settled
on as 1.03 mm of filament travel per revolution. In order to get 43mm (1.7
inches) of filament travel per revolution the lead screw would have to be
bigger than the printer, perhaps by a factor of two.
Here's a post on it. The value stated by Jonathan at that time was 1.08 but
it may have changed. Not sure why he went that high, because no one
measured or calculated more than 1.06, with most coming in around 1.04, as
I remember.
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=338.msg2366#msg2366
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5321#msg5321>
« *Reply #20 on:* May 18, 2013, 05:12:03 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5321;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
The cubex uses the same/similar extruder as the cube, the filament comes in
the top through the gear and pressure pulley then out the tube(heated) on
the bottom
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5322#msg5322>
« *Reply #21 on:* May 18, 2013, 07:26:50 AM »
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Well, that would make the difference. No more helix drive. Which, if I know
them, also means a shorter time to end of life for 3d Touch parts.
« *Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 07:30:23 AM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5324#msg5324>
« *Reply #22 on:* May 18, 2013, 08:35:41 AM »
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Oh hey! Another MOI 3D user!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5325#msg5325>
« *Reply #23 on:* May 18, 2013, 12:58:25 PM »
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Quote from: throwmeaway on May 18, 2013, 05:12:03 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5321#msg5321>
The cubex uses the same/similar extruder as the cube, the filament comes in
the top through the gear and pressure pulley then out the tube(heated) on
the bottom
The 3D Touch extruder.
this was one of the reasons why I still purchased an machine that was
being doped by the company.
It had some great hardware and many other things. this is from my spare
parts bin.
Can you get past the cartridge locked in system?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5327#msg5327>
« *Reply #24 on:* May 18, 2013, 01:26:19 PM »
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Quote from: SyntaxCapt on May 18, 2013, 08:35:41 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5324#msg5324>
Oh hey! Another MOI 3D user!
Did that finally get released? I was on an early testing team. Haven't
looked for it in a while. Development stalled and out of sight, out of
mind. Did like the way a lot of it worked. Like anything, it had a lot of
issues in its early stages.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5328#msg5328>
« *Reply #25 on:* May 18, 2013, 03:08:52 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5328;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
We have not tried yet, but we should be able to get past the cartridges
this guy just leaves an empty cartridge in the system and tells it to print
anyway http://www.howmuchsnow.com/cube/. I may also be able to leave an
empty cartridge in the system and change the header to use 0 material.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5329#msg5329>
« *Reply #26 on:* May 18, 2013, 04:13:58 PM »
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Well, that's good. I'd hate to run into the white PLA snapping problem and
be completely hemmed into their proprietary canisters; with no possibility
of adopting a material that performs as it should.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5377#msg5377>
« *Reply #27 on:* May 21, 2013, 07:24:59 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5377;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
*Settings for the new software:*
Use the same settings I posted above for the old software, some of the
options have moved but they are there
(turn on expert mode)
and change the printer->extruders->gain to 0.0225
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5479#msg5479>
« *Reply #28 on:* May 26, 2013, 09:10:55 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=5479;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on May 18, 2013, 01:26:19 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5327#msg5327>
Quote from: SyntaxCapt on May 18, 2013, 08:35:41 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5324#msg5324>
Oh hey! Another MOI 3D user!
Did that finally get released? I was on an early testing team. Haven't
looked for it in a while. Development stalled and out of sight, out of
mind. Did like the way a lot of it worked. Like anything, it had a lot of
issues in its early stages.
Version 2 has been out for a little while now. It does have some annoying
bugs I must agree, but 3.0 appears to be on the horizon. For the price I've
been enjoying it.
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Heated bed Mod
Firmware version: 5.2.0
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6010#msg6010>
« *Reply #29 on:* July 08, 2013, 11:07:57 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6010;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Does anyone have a copy of the 1.04 or 1.03 .hex firmware file? My machine
was loaded with 1.05 and dont have to option to go back a version.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6104#msg6104>
« *Reply #30 on:* July 18, 2013, 01:08:50 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6104;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Hello,
attached you find both - 1.03 and 1.04.
I also have to say, that I get much more better prints with kisslicer.
... will now buy a pro license!
Daniel
[image: *] cubex_v1.03.hex<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2161> (605.84
kB - downloaded 65 times.)
[image: *] cubex_v1.04.hex<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2162> (607.02
kB - downloaded 78 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6200#msg6200>
« *Reply #31 on:* July 30, 2013, 01:54:24 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6200;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
I have the misfortune of being a CubeX owner (firmware 1.04) and have been
trying to follow the instructions in the previous posts to get the printer
to work with KISSlicer, but I get an "Unable to Print File" error when I
try to load the .cubex file on the printer.
These are the steps I have gone through so far:
1. Load the STL file in KISSlicer 1.1.0.14 (STL verified in Netfabb)
2. Change KISSlicer settings according to reply #16 by throwmeaway
3. Turned off comments and put in gain of .0225
4. Slice the file and save it
5. Use the python script to change the gcode header and other info
6. Manually modify the header to reflect v 1.04 firmware and a material
code of 250 (PLA white)
7. Rename the gcode file with a .cubex extension and put it in the printer
- alternately I tried to load the gcode file in the cubex software and it
loads without displaying any errors, but does not show any parts or slices
on the "table" - neither route was successful
Any suggestions on where I might be going wrong?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6211#msg6211>
« *Reply #32 on:* July 31, 2013, 02:49:00 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6211;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Make sure you have under "Printer" as "Firmware Type" "Bits From Bytes
Printers" selected.
When posted/saved - leave the file-ending "*.bfb", just copy it on a
usb-stick and select the file on your printer.
KISSlicer works like a charm even with firmware 1.06 here.
« *Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 02:55:35 AM by LucasB* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6218#msg6218>
« *Reply #33 on:* August 01, 2013, 04:16:01 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6218;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Thanks LucasB (and everyone else). That worked and the print quality is
much better than the software that comes with the CubeX.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6221#msg6221>
« *Reply #34 on:* August 02, 2013, 01:00:12 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6221;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Thanks for the confirmation (on the SW quality) and, at the same time, not
a surprise.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6226#msg6226>
« *Reply #35 on:* August 02, 2013, 06:56:21 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6226;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Hello,
I am currently trying to max out speed settings. Can anybody confirm if
there is faster printing possible then with the settings posted by
throwmeaway (http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.15)?
The cubeX local hardware or software seems to limit to certain top speeds
when printing. Help for finding that threshold is greatly appreciated.
« *Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 02:41:31 AM by LucasB* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6328#msg6328>
« *Reply #36 on:* August 22, 2013, 01:30:41 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6328;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Is it me or the picture from the post #16 are no more available?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6330#msg6330>
« *Reply #37 on:* August 22, 2013, 04:41:03 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6330;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
It's you.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6332#msg6332>
« *Reply #38 on:* August 23, 2013, 04:49:35 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6332;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
It was the settings on my computer!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6335#msg6335>
« *Reply #39 on:* August 25, 2013, 08:02:43 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6335;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
I have been working to get Kisslicer running for the CubeX. I've been
through all the messages in this forum. Unfortunately, the screen captures
of the configs which were posted were for an earlier version of the
slicer. I think I have correlated most of the settings to the current
product but it would be VERY helpful if someone could simply post an
archive of the config files or simply a new post of the captures of the
config screens for the current product.
I'm not being lazy here. I've been working on this for a couple of days,
but there are some new settings which do not get addressed in the older
software config screens.
Once I get the config working well using a manual edit of the output file,
I plan on working up a Windows GUI for post processing which allows
material/filament selection and any other items which can be automated.
I'll be sure to post that back here once I get to that step. But first, I
need to make sure I'm working with a proper baseline config for the CubeX!
Thanks!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6343#msg6343>
« *Reply #40 on:* August 26, 2013, 12:07:08 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6343;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Here are a copy of my settings files. I think I have applied the CubeX
settings for the newer version OK. The prints seem to work well (once the
GCODE files have been converted). If anyone sees any settings which can be
improved please advise...
[image: *] Settings.zip<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2242> (1.82
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6345#msg6345>
« *Reply #41 on:* August 26, 2013, 12:23:16 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6345;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
...and here is a little Windows Executable (and AutoIT Source Code) to
massage the BFB files into the appropriate format for the CubeX.
The program allows selection of the filament material from a List. All
settings (and defaults) are stored in an INI file (inc Material Codes).
The program (CubeIt) performs the following operations:
- Prepends New CubeX Header (Firmware Version and Default Material Code can
be set in the CubeIt INI file)
- Strips Old CubeX Header (Allows Reprocessing files to change Material
Code)
- Strips all Comments
- Strips Blank Lines
- Updates any/all "M551" primer commands. Default is "M551 P1500 S150" and
can be changed in the INI File.
The program can be run interactively (for interactive File and Material
Selection) or run as a post-processor from the command line. If running as
a post-processor simply specify the desired input filename as the first
command line parameter and the desired materialcode as the second command
line parameter. If no MaterialCode is specified (but still a filename)
then the default materialcode is pulled from the INI file.
At some point I will enhance this utility to work with multiple extruders...
Please feel free to post any bugs or suggestions...
[image: *] CubeIt.zip<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2243> (296.89
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6405#msg6405>
« *Reply #42 on:* September 04, 2013, 10:55:32 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6405;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Wow... I just got this working on a CubeX Duo and can't thank you enough.
I'm only an 1/8" into the first build using the KISSlicer - CubeX workflow,
but this is the cleanest output I've ever seen from this machine. Thanks
Again!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6408#msg6408>
« *Reply #43 on:* September 04, 2013, 07:19:14 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6408;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Hello,
How do you select print jet 2 or 3. The build file wants to print on jet 1?
For the material, you can only select "PLA - CubeX". If you use ABS, do you
just change the temperature setting higher?
thank you.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6409#msg6409>
« *Reply #44 on:* September 05, 2013, 06:03:41 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6409;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Jet selection is done in the KISSLICER App. I don't have any ABS settings
established but I expect the temps are similar to other generic
implementations.
Here is an updated copy of CUBEIT. It will take the KISSLICER output and
massage it as appropriate for the CubeX. I have updated the code to reset
the primer string (M551 P1500 S150) regardless of which of the three jets
you are using (M551..., M552..., M553...). The new key in the INI file is
"M55" and you can just place the settings after the key. CubeIt will
detect any/all M55X commands and replace the settings accordingly.
There are other nozzle specific G-Codes which are located in the BFB files
but KISSLICER deals with them directly. So far, the M55x code appears the
only one that needs to be post processed. I may update CUBEIT later on to
allow reprocessing of the BFB files to allow quick nozzle swaps without
reslicing (i.e. shift all material using nozzle 1 to nozzle 2) if it seems
to be of value. (IOW - you sliced your model to use Black PLA on Nozzle 1,
but now you want to print with the Red PLA on Nozzle 2...) This would
obviously require a Material Code change and a swap of all the nozzle
specific codes in the BFB file....
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6410#msg6410>
« *Reply #45 on:* September 05, 2013, 08:34:20 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6410;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
If anyone has the blowfish key handy please feel free to send it to me via
a PM. I could incorporate it in CUBEIT to generate native files... It
certainly would be handy to analyze the native files in any case...
Thanks...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6413#msg6413>
« *Reply #46 on:* September 05, 2013, 10:41:29 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6413;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Never Mind...
;-)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6414#msg6414>
« *Reply #47 on:* September 05, 2013, 01:56:42 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6414;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
I am running some ABS material right now and will report back my settings.
I cannot believe what I am seeing. Who wrote that software for the CubeX?
Whoever it is needs to be fired. Night and day difference in the print
quality.
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Re: CUBEX Duo<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6415#msg6415>
« *Reply #48 on:* September 05, 2013, 04:54:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6415;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
I'm new here and this is absolutely fantastic! I am printing on my #1
extruder...how do I get something to print on the #2 extruder? I usually
have different materials/colors loaded. It would be FANTASTIC if CubeIt
could allow us to change extruder and material/color.
Can someone point out where in the KISSlicer interface I need to look or is
it swapping out G-Code?
Thanks,
Charlie
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6417#msg6417>
« *Reply #49 on:* September 06, 2013, 05:46:44 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6417;topic=689.0;last_msg=13088>
Swapping Nozzles in your GCode is not a big deal as long as you have the
same type of (ABS/PLA) Material (but perhaps a different color). If you
change material (ABS/PLA) then you also have to consider temp and flow
issues. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here - Kisslicer is the
proper tool to do that (change material). CUBEIT is just meant to be a
simple post-processor to help KISSLICER to work with the CubeX environment.
A quick comparison of Kisslicer BFB output files shows that the following
GCODEs are the only ones that change when only a nozzle is changed (at
least in my test model):
Nozzle1 Nozzle2 Nozzle3
-------- -------- ---------
M101 M201 M301
M104... M204... M304
M108... M208... M308
M551... M552... M553
T0 T1 T2
Only the PRO version of KISSLICER "works with multiple extruders". I'm not
sure if that means the free version is limited to only printing with nozzle
1 or that it simply won't use more than 1 nozzle in a single print. In any
case, if you like KISSLICER you should show your appreciation by purchasing
the PRO licenseand supporting the author (regardless of whether you need
multiple nozzles or not). My $0.02...
Assuming the above info is correct, I can easily update CUBEIT to swap in a
different nozzle for nozzle 1. This would assume that you always print
with Nozzle 1 and simply want to change to Nozzle 2 or 3 (for a different
color). Material changes (temps, etc), as stated earlier, would beyond the
scope of this project...
I'll see if I can work that option up shortly...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6418#msg6418>
« *Reply #50 on:* September 06, 2013, 08:15:27 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6418;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Great info...thanks for your reply. I'm doing a few tests with KISSlicer
and will be purchasing it VERY soon.
Thanks,
Charlie
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6419#msg6419>
« *Reply #51 on:* September 06, 2013, 11:48:15 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6419;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
This work is absolutely fantastic to see. I tried to get KISSlicer to work
with Windows 7, but got file access denied errors, so I will try on Windows
XP. I have a Cubex Trio that I have been fighting with for over a month
now trying to get good quality prints. I got the heated print bed, so that
makes a huge difference, but the Cubex software still produces mediocre
quality.
One big issue for me is support structures and how Cubex software does a
poor job with it. I tried with limited success to print my models in ABS,
and used PLA (natural color) for support. PLA eventually dissolves away in
hot H2O/NaOH, so there is huge potential here for some intricate parts. If
KISSlicer can handle multiple print heads each with different materials in
one build, that would bring this machine up near the level of a Stratasys
rapid prototyping machine (which we have where I work so it makes for a
great comparison). Keep up the great work!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6420#msg6420>
« *Reply #52 on:* September 06, 2013, 11:58:03 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6420;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
I have the updates done with CUBEIT to support post-processing changes to
swap the selected print nozzle. This assumes you will always be starting
with a print set up for nozzle 1 and want to change it over to 2 or 3.
Basically, it allows you to change all the nozzle 1 GCODE to Nozzle 2 or
3. If this works well, then maybe I will enhance it to allow to to change
any nozzle (1-3) to any other (1-3). First things first. This also
assumes you will be using the same type of material in the new nozzle since
no attempt is made to adjust temps, etc.
I'm just cleaning up the code now and will post it shortly...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6421#msg6421>
« *Reply #53 on:* September 06, 2013, 12:00:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6421;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
BTW - I have KISSLICER working quite well with Windows 7 on two of my
machines and Windows 8 on the other. If your having an issue with your box
running KISSLICER on Win7 its not the O/S itself - its something else...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6422#msg6422>
« *Reply #54 on:* September 06, 2013, 12:19:36 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6422;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
The issue I am having may have something to do with the security settings
on Windows 7 since it will not allow KISSlicer to save files. Hopefully I
will have that figured out soon.
In regards to changing nozzles, it can also be done by just re-mapping them
right on the Cubex machine using one of the menu items. I have done that
quite often already when I want to print the same part in a different
color.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6424#msg6424>
« *Reply #55 on:* September 06, 2013, 01:39:45 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6424;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Make sure you are saving files to some place other than your programs
(Program Files, Program Files(x86)) Folders). Just try saving somewhere
else (Like "My Documents"...) If you can save a file there (with NotePad)
then there should be no issues. Its not a compatibility thing, I assure
you...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6425#msg6425>
« *Reply #56 on:* September 06, 2013, 01:49:20 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6425;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
OK, Here's the latest version of CUBIT. It will allow nozzle swaps for
any/all of the 3 nozzles. The GCodes used to build the array of swap codes
are set up in the INI so if anyone identifies any other codes they are
easily added to the INI file (no program changes required).
Note that this version requires a new INI file (attached) with the
[NozzleSwapInfo] section included. (The Keys in the [NozzleSwapInfo] can
be named anything - however the associated GCodes to swap are listed in
Nozzle1,Nozzle2,Nozzle3 order).
Its hot off the press, I did run a couple of sanity checks on it although
its not exhaustively tested. Please post additional a note if you find
something that needs attention... In any case, the AutoIT source code
(*.AU3) is included in the spirit of Open Source (unlike the "Spirit of
CubeX")...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6426#msg6426>
« *Reply #57 on:* September 06, 2013, 05:37:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6426;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Another update... Found an issue with allowing multiple extruders in my
code...
There are (at least) two lines in the CubeX header that refer to extruder
usage. For a print using a single extruder (#1), the CubeX print file has
two lines similar to the following in their proprietary header:
^MaterialLengthE1: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 209
It appears we can always set the MaterialLength to "1" and the MaterialCode
to whatever material we select, However its the "E1" part of the lines that
need to be researched. I feel fairly comfortable substituting E2 or E3 in
these specifiers if Nozzle 2 or 3 is selected, but the real question is
what to do if multiple extruders are used by the print (i.e. Is the order
of the lines important). Even if we assume that pairs of specifiers for
multiple extruders are simply declared in the header in order, there are
still a couple of technical challenges for the code.
1. Since the CUBEIT code allows swaps for any/all of the three nozzles,
then the header would have to be written AFTER the file is processed as we
don't really know what nozzles are used until after the GCode is
processed. It would be easiest to do this by processing the GCode file
twice. Once to do any nozzle swaps and detect which nozzles are ultimately
used, and then once again to prepend the header.
2. If we want to be able to use all three nozzles then I have to
effectively run the material selection GUI three times (once for each
nozzle).
3. I need to run some tests using decrypted native CubeX output files to
see how they handle specifications for multiple extruders in their header
so I can duplicate it.
All the above are doable, but I want to run a few tests first before I bank
on the changes. I have reverted the CubeIt logic to expect only Nozzle 1 to
be used in the source print file. So for right now, If you plan on running
a KISSLICER print file through CubeIt make sure you use Nozzle1 as your
output nozzle and preserve the original print file as a source file for
reprocessing. So currently, CubeIt will expect to find Nozzle1 commands in
your file but will allow you to change them to 2 or 3 if you wish.
Once I get the multi-extruder header stuff sorted out, I'll re-enable the
code to work with Multiple Nozzles.
I also cleaned up the format of the INI file so make sure you keep it
current as well...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6427#msg6427>
« *Reply #58 on:* September 06, 2013, 07:48:34 PM »
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Quote from: WarrenE on September 06, 2013, 11:48:15 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6419#msg6419>
I tried to get KISSlicer to work with Windows 7, but got file access denied
errors, so I will try on Windows XP.
Go to the application Properties > Compatibility tab and select: "Run As
Administrator"
In Win8 I don't install anything in /Program Files or /Program Files (x86)
if on x64. Problematical from the start, due to these permission errors on
saving files. I set an Applications directory on a drive other than the
System Drive, especially if it is an SSD, and install everything there in
either /Applications or /Applications (x86).
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6428#msg6428>
« *Reply #59 on:* September 06, 2013, 08:22:30 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6428;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Thanks so much. I moved it to a new "applications" folder and now it works
like a charm. Time to try some printing now. [image: :o])
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6430#msg6430>
« *Reply #60 on:* September 07, 2013, 08:48:50 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6430;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
OK - Here we go again. I think this should work to meet most folks
requirements.
It appears that the native CubeX software enumerates all the employed
MaterialLengths in the header before it enumerates the associated
MaterialCodes. For example, if your print used multiple extruders (1 and
3), the file header might look something like this:
^Firmware:V1.07
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:1
^MaterialLengthE1: 1
^MaterialLengthE3: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 209
^MaterialCodeE3: 202
This latest release of CUBEIT will take care of this for you. It will read
your input file to check which extruders/nozzles are being used. It will
then let you swap them for any other Nozzle (1-3) as you wish. This new
version of CUBEIT will also let you set and manage (via your CUBEIT.INI
file) the materials loaded into your specific nozzles.
So once you specify an input file, CUBEIT will then display its Main
Control Window. (CubeIt needs to read your original input file in order to
detect which extruders/nozzles are being used). You then can manage the
materials loaded into each extruder in the Main Control Window (these will
be remembered). The Main Control Window also provides a control set so you
can specify extruder/nozzle swaps during processing (this defaults to NO
swaps). For obvious reasons, only nozzles actually used in the original
input file will be swappable.
The new INI file format has more internal documentation. Although you
shouldn't have to manually edit the INI file, its designed to be very
flexible should something new come up. Take a look at the INI file if you
want to get an idea of what is being done as your as your BFB file is
post-processed.
(Win Executable, INI File, and Source Code attached)
Feedback from testing is appreciated!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6431#msg6431>
« *Reply #61 on:* September 07, 2013, 08:53:02 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6431;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on September 06, 2013, 07:48:34 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6427#msg6427>
In Win8 I don't install anything in /Program Files or /Program Files (x86)
if on x64. Problematical from the start, due to these permission errors on
saving files. I set an Applications directory on a drive other than the
System Drive, especially if it is an SSD, and install everything there in
either /Applications or /Applications (x86).
The default install is not a problem in Win8 as long as your account has
administrator privs and you have UAC (User Access Control) turned all the
way down...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6435#msg6435>
« *Reply #62 on:* September 07, 2013, 11:45:11 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6435;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
[quote author=evanevery link=topic=689.msg6431#msg6431 date=1378572782The
default install is not a problem in Win8 as long as your account has
administrator privs and you have UAC (User Access Control) turned all the
way down...
[/quote]
Which is a Bad Idea; both of them. Common misconception. If you get owned,
well... I have it set to Quiet but not off entirely. The UAC may be a bit
of a pain if you don't know how to deal with it but, not that I'm a M$
troll or anything, it is designed to address a serious problem that you can
blame the malware authors for stuffing in all of our faces.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6438#msg6438>
« *Reply #63 on:* September 08, 2013, 07:09:19 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6438;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
The O/S shouldn't have to be so restrictive. There are better security
methods that don't compromise so much functionality. The O/S is supposed
to work for USER - not the other way around. I don't want an O/S which
refuses to let me install or run a legitimate program.
Spreading your programs and data all over the place just to get around
Windows built-in security doesn't make it any safer - just harder to
manage. If you really want to be safe - just unplug your box altogether.
The ultimate trade of functionality for security!
(I have made some updates to CUBEIT to improve the internal documentation,
comments in the INI file, and bit of streamlining for the internal code.
So there's a new version ready to be posted. I'll wait a bit before
posting it so as not to keep spamming this forum with updates. I'll roll
in any other changes we find at that point as well. Probably sometime
tomorrow...)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6441#msg6441>
« *Reply #64 on:* September 08, 2013, 11:53:27 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6441;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Well, I tried the latest Cubit software with the free version of KISSlicer
now a number of times, and it works very well, and is very easy! Thanks
for the great work. I really like the control I now have for printing and
supports. I still need to fine tune some settings for some gears that I am
trying to print where the quality is not at the level as the Cubify
software, but for other things where support is needed, the results are
great. I noticed that after processing the KISSlicer files with Cubit,
they can be read by the Cubify software. However, when you view the slices
by layer, the Cubify software doesn't see everything. Some layers are
blank. When the file is printed, there is no problem.
Now that this problem is on the way to being solved, I wonder how the CUBEX
counts the filament as it is printing. If there was a way to stop it from
counting, this would allow people to use other filament and not have to
worry about changing the firmware back to v1.04.
Because of this work, purchased the upgrade for KISSlicer. Just waiting
now for the access code so I can try some multi-extruder printing. Thanks
folks for your help.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6443#msg6443>
« *Reply #65 on:* September 08, 2013, 01:33:31 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6443;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on September 08, 2013, 07:09:19 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6438#msg6438>
The O/S shouldn't have to be so restrictive. There are better security
methods that don't compromise so much functionality. The O/S is supposed
to work for USER - not the other way around. I don't want an O/S which
refuses to let me install or run a legitimate program.
Spreading your programs and data all over the place just to get around
Windows built-in security doesn't make it any safer - just harder to
manage. If you really want to be safe - just unplug your box altogether.
The ultimate trade of functionality for security!
Oh, please....
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6447#msg6447>
« *Reply #66 on:* September 08, 2013, 03:54:30 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6447;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: WarrenE on September 08, 2013, 11:53:27 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6441#msg6441>
Well, I tried the latest Cubit software with the free version of KISSlicer
now a number of times, and it works very well, and is very easy! Thanks
for the great work.
You're welcome! I'll probably post the latest version of CUBEIT tomorrow.
I don't think there is much else to be done. I've streamlined the code a
little more, enhanced the comments in the code and the INI. New ideas
often come to me at night - so as long as I don't think of something else
tonight, I'll post the updated code/exe/ini tomorrow...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6452#msg6452>
« *Reply #67 on:* September 09, 2013, 06:27:43 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6452;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Here Ya go. CUBEIT: Latest EXE, SOURCE Code, and INI...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6454#msg6454>
« *Reply #68 on:* September 09, 2013, 09:11:57 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6454;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Its inevitable...
I got a PM from a member who was asking about KISSLICER integration. I
tweaked the code so it integrates completely (3 Nozzle Support) right from
within KISSLICER. It runs just the same interactively, but you can now
have it process transparently from within Kisslicer using any/all of the
three nozzles on your Cubex. (Before I made these last tweaks it would
only post-process for Nozzle1).
If you wish to use CUBEIT as a post processor for KISSLICER, simply put the
following command in your KISSLICER config pages (Printer -> Firmware ->
Post-Process):
CUBEIT.EXE "<FILE>" 209,202,0
- CUBEIT.EXE/INI must be located in your KISSLICER Program Folder (or
somewher in your Path)
- "<FILE>" should be specified exactly as shown (including quotes) -
KISSLICER will automatically replace <FILE> with your filename
- The last parameter is a list of material codes as installed in your CUBEX
Printer (comma delimited)
- "209,202,0" in my example would be PLA Black in Nozzle 1, PLA Red in
Nozzle 2, and nothing in Nozzle 3
- If you don't specify the last parameter, CUBEIT will use the material
codes set in your INI file
- The kisslicer file (before post processing) will be saved as *.BAK
- There is little point in requesting CUBEIT to do Nozzle Swaps as a post
processor so it is not supported in command line mode
Have fun...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6472#msg6472>
« *Reply #69 on:* September 10, 2013, 01:12:06 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6472;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Hello to the folks over in "Google Groups: CubeX 3D Printing" watching this
thread...
Why don't you join us over here? (I'ld join you there except Google Groups
exposes personal email addresses to the world...)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6477#msg6477>
« *Reply #70 on:* September 11, 2013, 07:14:16 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6477;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Ahhh, but I have...
I admit to extolling the virtues of KISSlicer and your work over there.
It's taken the performance of my machine from "toy" to "precision tool"
Your last update to CubeIt is really slick and being able to run it inside
KISSlicer as a post-process is sweet.
Thanks again...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6478#msg6478>
« *Reply #71 on:* September 11, 2013, 07:15:35 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6478;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on September 10, 2013, 01:12:06 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6472#msg6472>
Hello to the folks over in "Google Groups: CubeX 3D Printing" watching this
thread...
Why don't you join us over here? (I'ld join you there except Google Groups
exposes personal email addresses to the world...)
A few of us are already here. [image: ;)]
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6479#msg6479>
« *Reply #72 on:* September 11, 2013, 07:20:44 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6479;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
I was going to also join the Google Group until I noticed that the private
email address of anyone who posts a message is publicly visible. That's
unfortunate...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6480#msg6480>
« *Reply #73 on:* September 11, 2013, 08:10:17 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6480;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
To be honest I didn't know of the Google Groups email issue - until I
started receiving email questions from other CubeX owners around the world
on integrating w/ KISSlicer... I just refer them back here!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6481#msg6481>
« *Reply #74 on:* September 11, 2013, 08:51:14 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6481;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
At least here you can keep your email address private (and just use PM's
for personal messaging)...
But its good to have all the interested parties "in the same room" so to
speak. CUBEIT really doesn't do much you can't already do by hand with a
little effort, but I'm here if folks find bugs or have enhancement
requests...
Its going to be REAL important for everyone to be able to work together if
Cubify starts making things even more restrictive in future updates. (I
already have a solution ready if they start blocking unencrypted files, but
there is little point in letting that go unless it becomes necessary).
Its really a shame that they try to close off such a nice piece of
equipment. I'm not sure what they think they are gaining by trying to
force you to use their crappy software tools. I think we all agree that
the printer is even a more attractive product when using KISSLICER as the
slicing engine...
The expensive, unreliable, proprietary filament cartridges are a whole
'nother issue though. Although there are some workarounds using older
firmware and empty cartridges, its just a matter of time until a more
integrated solution becomes available...
Do they think they would have sold LESS printers without all this
nonsense? ..or do they think they are simply going to get rich by selling
filament at three times the market value?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6485#msg6485>
« *Reply #75 on:* September 11, 2013, 05:05:11 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6485;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on September 11, 2013, 08:51:14 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6481#msg6481>
Do they think they would have sold LESS printers without all this
nonsense? ..or do they think they are simply going to get rich by selling
filament at three times the market value?
The latter. They spin it in all manner of ways to try to deflect this
conclusion by laying down a thick smokescreen but that is the only thing
that really fits.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6506#msg6506>
« *Reply #76 on:* September 16, 2013, 11:29:11 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6506;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
I am trying out Kisslicer for our Cubex Trio. I need to get a little
better before I approach my boss about purchasing the pro license.
The vertical surfaces generally look better. However I am having a problem
with the first couple of layers. In Photo1.jpg the image on the left was
generated with the Cubex software. The part on the right with Kisslicer.
The first layers seem to create a flare (not sure what to call it). See
Photo2.jpg and Photo3.jpg.
Cubex Trio, Firmware 1.07, PLA, 0.25 layer thickness
Using the settings.ini posted earlier and the latest Cubit.
I have tried different parts and "Fast" and "Precise" modes.
Any ideas?
Thanks
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2315;image>
[image: *] Photo1.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2315> (206.03
kB, 1024x870 - viewed 45 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2317;image>
[image: *] Photo2.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2317> (231.21
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6507#msg6507>
« *Reply #77 on:* September 16, 2013, 12:54:37 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6507;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Have you measured/set your Z-Gap?
(BTW - CUBEIT does NOT adjust any geometry or temps - so if your ZGap is
good then check your KISSLICER settings...)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6509#msg6509>
« *Reply #78 on:* September 16, 2013, 01:10:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6509;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Squished first layers are usually due to the head being too close to the
surface; perhaps combined with a high first layer temperature.
Adjust this in KS with Z-offset in the Printer > Hardware tab. + increases
the distance, - decreases. Be careful with - or you can drive the nozzle
into the bed. I found the best way to measure the distance is to use a
simple small part like a calibration cube and turn Skirt on. Just let the
first, second and third layers complete and stop the print. Use micrometers
to measure the thickness of the skirt and adjust from there. As you
approach the correct setting, you can monitor the edges on the part itself
and stop when you get the profile you like. A skirt thickness that is at or
just a few thousandths of a mm greater than the printing layer thickness
will produce squishless first layers.
It is a very fine setting, especially when going thicker than layer
thickness. At one point, the extrusion will no longer reliably stick to the
bed. That's when you lower it a bit until it does.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6510#msg6510>
« *Reply #79 on:* September 16, 2013, 01:25:28 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6510;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
You can use a simple sheet of paper as a feeler gauge to set the ZGap.
Just raise the bed until a single sheet of standard notebook paper starts
to grab as you pull it back and forth under the nozzle. Once you get the
bed to where you can just start to feel the print head scratching the paper
then zero your ZGap...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6526#msg6526>
« *Reply #80 on:* September 17, 2013, 12:56:01 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6526;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Wow! Thanks for the replies and suggestions.
I had already leveled the plate and set the Z-gap.
I ran several test prints adjusting temperature and Z offset. However I
could not get rid of the apparently squished layers...Until.
I realized that I had changed the "number of loops" (under style) from 1 to
2. This particular test part had a thick enough wall that KS was trying to
fill it with a zig-zag. This created a rough wall so I set the loops to 2
which solved the problem.
When I set loops back to 1 the "squished layer" effect went away. I am
running another test print now. I will post some pictures at some point
comparing KS to Cubex.
Thanks for the help.
Evanevery, thanks for Cubeit.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6552#msg6552>
« *Reply #81 on:* September 19, 2013, 03:56:24 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6552;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
That notwithstanding, setting the KS Z-offset by a few thousandths to
hundredths of a mm + will eliminate the squish. I print a number of parts
with Loops up to 30+ and can eliminate the squish quite easily. That your
squish disappears by setting Loops to 1, says that it is a combination of
Z-offset and First Layer Temperature.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6567#msg6567>
« *Reply #82 on:* September 20, 2013, 06:10:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6567;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
...just make sure that your bed height (Z-Gap) is properly calibrated
BEFORE you start changing any settings in KS. Otherwise you will end up
having to compensate for the error in each and every print and will chase
it forever.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6570#msg6570>
« *Reply #83 on:* September 20, 2013, 07:44:04 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6570;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Hi all. Just joining after finding this thread on the google groups post.
I downloaded KISSlicer, settings.zip, and the latest CubeIt from this post.
Loaded the STL in KISSlicer, changed the printer to CubeX and the material
to CubeX.
Saved the file with KISSlicer, opened it with CubeIt, and saved the output
to a USB stick.
The printer is happy and the quality of the print is SO much better! Thank
you all for the work you've put into make this a simple work-around for the
sub-par quality of the CubeX software.
Using firmware 1.04 and filament from ebay.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6572#msg6572>
« *Reply #84 on:* September 20, 2013, 12:09:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6572;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on September 20, 2013, 06:10:31 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6567#msg6567>
...just make sure that your bed height (Z-Gap) is properly calibrated
BEFORE you start changing any settings in KS. Otherwise you will end up
having to compensate for the error in each and every print and will chase
it forever.
Well, at least on this hardware, the Z-height adjustment isn't all that
fine. I set the nozzle to the bed and then fine tune it in KS with
Z-offset. Yes, that setting stays in every print thereafter but I don't
chase anything forever. Once the two dimensions are determined, it is a
static setting until I either add painter's tape or a glass plate to print
on. At that point, I mic the thickness and add it to KS's Z-offset and go.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6582#msg6582>
« *Reply #85 on:* September 21, 2013, 10:32:07 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6582;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Can anyone please tell me what is wrong with my .cube file (please find it
attached). It is a pipe. I generated the .bfb with KISSlicer using the
settings given by @evanevery. I then used @evanevery CUBEIT code. I then
saved the output file's .bfb to .cube. However, when I try to load this
file into the cubify software, the software always terminate abruptly.
Also, when I try to print it with basic cube 3D printer (Not cubeX) which
runs a v1.06 firmware, the printer always display the error message " fail
to print file". My catridge, I guess, is ABS neon green.
Thanks in anticipation
PS: you may change the extension of the attached .cube file to .gcode or
bfb to view the contents.
[image: *] hollow cylinder model4.cube<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2334> (117.58
kB - downloaded 4 times.)
[image: *] hollow cylinder model.cube<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2335> (117.57
kB - downloaded 1 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6584#msg6584>
« *Reply #86 on:* September 21, 2013, 10:52:58 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6584;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on September 09, 2013, 09:11:57 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6454#msg6454>
Its inevitable...
I got a PM from a member who was asking about KISSLICER integration. I
tweaked the code so it integrates completely (3 Nozzle Support) right from
within KISSLICER. It runs just the same interactively, but you can now
have it process transparently from within Kisslicer using any/all of the
three nozzles on your Cubex. (Before I made these last tweaks it would
only post-process for Nozzle1).
If you wish to use CUBEIT as a post processor for KISSLICER, simply put the
following command in your KISSLICER config pages (Printer -> Firmware ->
Post-Process):
CUBEIT.EXE "<FILE>" 209,202,0
- CUBEIT.EXE/INI must be located in your KISSLICER Program Folder (or
somewher in your Path)
- "<FILE>" should be specified exactly as shown (including quotes) -
KISSLICER will automatically replace <FILE> with your filename
- The last parameter is a list of material codes as installed in your CUBEX
Printer (comma delimited)
- "209,202,0" in my example would be PLA Black in Nozzle 1, PLA Red in
Nozzle 2, and nothing in Nozzle 3
- If you don't specify the last parameter, CUBEIT will use the material
codes set in your INI file
- The kisslicer file (before post processing) will be saved as *.BAK
- There is little point in requesting CUBEIT to do Nozzle Swaps as a post
processor so it is not supported in command line mode
Have fun...
Evanevery, Could you send the whole config page so I could copy/paste it
into KS.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
« *Reply #87 on:* September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6600;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
First off, thank you evanevery for coming up with Cubeit. I was about to
go down the road of buying new electronics and replacing all the guts of
this CubeX as it was completely worthless with the CubeX software. I have
a couple of questions around the KiSSlicer software. I apologize in
advance for how toolish these questions might be, I just haven't quite
grasped all the terminology and setting functions.
- What does increasing/decreasing flow tweak do and how do I tell which
way I need to go?
- Is there any advantage or disadvantage to setting material diameter
+/- to the measured diameter of the material?
- PenskeGuy - If I adjust the Z-lift to eliminate squish, does this
effectively change the Z setting across the entire height of the print?
- I've attached the CubeX print bed STL. If I change the bed center
settings to line up the grid with the print bed STL, will this correctly
line up the prints on the bed?
- In the Printer>Extruders> tab there is a gain setting. What does this
do?
- What is Oversample Resolution?
- Is the skin thickness setting intended to be the minimum wall
thickness of any part of the print?
- If I am seeing gaps in the layering (looks to me like not enough
material is jetting) what setting should I try to adjust?
- Am I understanding Loops correctly as the number of passes the head
makes while building a surface?
Thanks
EDIT:thought better of putting the 3dsys stl online...
« *Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 02:03:34 PM by bkjnky* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6603#msg6603>
« *Reply #88 on:* September 23, 2013, 05:29:21 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6603;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
I'm attaching pictures of two printed items side by side. Both printed on
the CubeX (1.04) but one was sliced with the CubeX software and the other
with KISSlicer.
Both slicers were set to .25 mm layer height. The CubeX print took 7 hours
and the KISS print took 7.5 hours. I have no problems with an extra half
hour when the quality is this good (please see attached).
**I almost forgot.. If you are using the settings from this thread and
printing a big part you might want to adjust the Bed Center X to -35mm in
the Printer tab of KISSlicer.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2343;image>
[image: *] CubeX_Left_KISS_Right.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2343> (977.6
kB, 1632x1224 - viewed 81 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2345;image>
[image: *] CubeX_Left_KISS_Right_2.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2345> (1014.82
kB, 1632x1224 - viewed 54 times.)
« *Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 05:37:25 AM by cdlrenee* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6606#msg6606>
« *Reply #89 on:* September 23, 2013, 10:42:15 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6606;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
I think I solved the squished first layer problem. I re-leveled the plate,
reset the Z-Gap (copier paper), and set a Z-offset in KS. Thanks for
everyone's help.
Upgraded to KS Pro!
I found a new part that is giving me problems (see attachment). The part
on the left is from KS, on the right is cubex. Can any one point me in the
direction of which parameter to work on?
Cubex Trio Firmware 1.07
The white material is PLA, yellow is ABS.
PLA temp = main 215, first layer 250, keep warm 150
Destring = prime 0.05, suck 1, wipe 10, speed 15, min jump 1
Flow adjust = Flow tweak 1.1, Min 0.01, max 10
Speeds for this print = Loops 16, Solid 21, Sparce 33.2
ABS settings same as above except temp= Main 250, first layer 275, keep
warm 150
Number of Loops 2, Infill 50% Rounded, Extrusion Width 0.6, layer thickness
0.25
Thanks
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6610#msg6610>
« *Reply #90 on:* September 23, 2013, 01:42:56 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6610;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
I apologize in advance for how toolish these questions might be, I just
haven't quite grasped all the terminology and setting functions.
I'll answer this set but it is good to use the forum search, as all of them
have been answered. This is basic stuff that we all worked to learn and
you'll also find more information on how each of these work by following
the threads. Some of these seem a bit trollish... The KS manual is out of
date but does have basic stuff that crosses most of the versions. You can
also search on "Idiots Guide". That will lead you to a manual of sorts that
a lot of us wrote for this student.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
What does increasing/decreasing flow tweak do and how do I tell which way I
need to go?
Increasing/decreasing the flow tweak increases/decreases the flow from the
computed center point. KS determines how much material to supply by
computing that from a number of factors. Different materials act
differently. Flow Tweak makes a fine adjustment to the computation to
accommodate a particular material's quirks.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
Is there any advantage or disadvantage to setting material diameter +/- to
the measured diameter of the material?
It is essential. That is one of the basic values that KS uses to compute
the flow rate. Settings are present for a reason.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
If I adjust the Z-lift to eliminate squish, does this effectively change
the Z setting across the entire height of the print?
No. Z-lift is the amount that the head raises off the part before making a
traverse. Z-offset changes the nozzle to bed distance. You really should
look at the tooltips for most of these answers.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
In the Printer>Extruders> tab there is a gain setting. What does this do?
It makes major adjustments in the flow computation. Usually, you just leave
it at 1 and use Flow Tweak.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
What is Oversample Resolution?
Looks at finer details of the model and tries to generate paths that will
reproduce them. Takes a lot of memory when you get the setting down to very
fine levels.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
Is the skin thickness setting intended to be the minimum wall thickness of
any part of the print?
Yes. If it isn't satisfied by Loops, Infill makes up the difference.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
If I am seeing gaps in the layering (looks to me like not enough material
is jetting) what setting should I try to adjust?
Too complex to go into here. Can be caused by a lot of things; many of
which are addressed in this answer. You need to search on "calibration",
"cube" and "thin wall" then do a proper calibration or you'll just be going
around in circles and asking more questions. Calibration is the first thing
you do. Once that is done to set a baseline, then you can begin to figure
out what to change to address a certain condition; not before.
Quote from: bkjnky on September 22, 2013, 02:01:25 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6600#msg6600>
Am I understanding Loops correctly as the number of passes the head makes
while building a surface?
Perimeters and Loops are mostly used on side walls; Perimeter being the
outer-most Loop. You *can* make top and bottom surfaces with Loops as well
by increasing the number of Loops to the point that their paths fill the
top and bottom surface and control the wall thicknesses by the Skin
Thickness setting. If the number of Loops is less than that required to
completely cover the top/bottom, Solid Infill will fill the remaining
portion.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6611#msg6611>
« *Reply #91 on:* September 23, 2013, 01:49:26 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6611;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on September 23, 2013, 10:42:15 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6606#msg6606>
The white material is PLA, yellow is ABS.
PLA temp = main 215, first layer 250, keep warm 150
Destring = prime 0.05, suck 1, wipe 10, speed 15, min jump 1
Flow adjust = Flow tweak 1.1, Min 0.01, max 10
Speeds for this print = Loops 16, Solid 21, Sparce 33.2
ABS settings same as above except temp= Main 250, first layer 275, keep
warm 150
Temps, especially first layer, are way too high. Depending upon
manufacturer, I run PLA at 195-215 -- keep warm 125, ABS at 225-250 -- keep
warm 140.
Did you do a proper calibration to arrive at Flow Tweak?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6612#msg6612>
« *Reply #92 on:* September 23, 2013, 01:54:05 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6612;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
I'm running cooler temps on my CubeX PLA - 200 main & 230 first layer
Your part looks like it was run a little "hot"
This part was run w/ the 200 main & 230 first layer setting
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6624#msg6624>
« *Reply #93 on:* September 27, 2013, 07:25:30 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6624;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: olule on September 21, 2013, 10:32:07 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6582#msg6582>
My catridge, I guess, is ABS neon green.
I took a quick look at the first file and nothing jumps out at me. You are
printing with Extruder #1 and if you DON'T have ABS Neon Green in their
then maybe the printer is refusing to process the file...
I did note that the time estimate in the header is "12" instead of "1". I
don't know if this matters, but, by default, I believe it should be "1" as
set in the default CUBEIT.INI file. Have you edited your INI file and
upset something?
Also, I got the material codes from another posting, and if 256 is not
actually ABS Neon Green then that could be a problem. If you post a
standard cubex output file which DOES work with your ABS Neon Green
filament, I'll confirm the material code...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6647#msg6647>
« *Reply #94 on:* October 02, 2013, 08:41:53 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6647;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Thank you evanevery for all the work to get this working on a CubeX. Also
thanks to the PenskeGuy for all his input and help in the forum.
I am using the kisslicer pro version and printing with a CubeX.
The kisslicer software is great. Overall so much better than the cubeX
software. Specially the supports work so well and are easily removed
without leaving hardly any marks.
I am trying to fine tune some parameters because I get some "layer
ribbing". (see attached picture)
The layers seem smother on the outside at the beginning where the part is
solid at the bottom.
Then when it gets to the hollow part, it seems to show the ribbing more.
The part in the picture is ABS, layer height .125 (I see similar at .25
layer),
Skin thickness 1.2
Extrusion width 0.6
Infill extrusion width 0.5
Loops 2
hollow
Speed 30 / 40 / 30 (slower speed did not seem to make much difference)
Temperature first layer was 275 the 270 for half of the part and then
turned down to 250.
Had some other parts printed at 235, but did not seem to make much
difference.
Also I am not sure what settings should change between PLA and ABS besides
temperature.
Thank you much.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2355;image>
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6651#msg6651>
« *Reply #95 on:* October 02, 2013, 11:04:57 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6651;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
A bit difficult to tell from the shot but it looks as if there are some
linear gaps in the layers where the part narrows about half way up? Some
sections of those layers appear to be properly fused and others are darker,
indicating a cavity.
Do the ribs oscillate back and forth laterally or do they grow and shrink?
There is a lot of squish on the first two or three layers. This indicates
too high a temperature and/or too close to the bed. 275 really is too high,
as is 270. 235 may be too low. It all depends upon the filament
manufacturer. Some ABS runs best between 250-260, others can get as low as
225.
From the blobbing on the top surface Infill to Perimeter joints, it seems
that a set of calibrations may be in order. There shouldn't be significant
bumps there. Remember that flow rate is tied to temperature. If you do a
calibration at one temp and set a Flow Tweak to get good dimensions and
flat Infill, and then change the temperature, the Flow Tweak will have to
be re calibrated for that temp. Feed rate is also tied to temp. If you're
printing too fast for a given temp, the extruder will not be able to supply
enough to keep up.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6654#msg6654>
« *Reply #96 on:* October 02, 2013, 12:24:08 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6654;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
The ribs seem to be fairly evenly around the part. There is one ~2mm wide
vertical area where it seems smoother. (either start or end of layer?)
I was running the temperature so high, because files created with the cubeX
software run that high.
But did not see much change when I lowered the temperature to 250 halfway
during the print.
I will try some "thin wall" calibration and "solid cube calibration" tests
next. Any other calibration I could / should do?
Thank you much Penske Guy,
very much appreciated.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6655#msg6655>
« *Reply #97 on:* October 02, 2013, 02:04:36 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6655;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
How is the vertical movement on your bed? Is it relatively smooth? Do the
guides or jacking screw need a little lubricant? ...or might they be
gummed up from too much lubricant? ...any scratches on the guides, etc?
I've always run a final Z-Gap setting on the bed to have the bed reset one
more time after I "think" I am done with my calibration. The bed settles a
little differently if it is running up or down. So when I think I'm done,
I rerun the Z-Gap setting with a piece of paper on the bed - if it doesn't
grab/scratch the paper the way I want, I adjust it and keep letting it do
its thing until it grabs/scratches properly without any further adjustment
on my part.
I'm not saying your issue is related to Z-Gap adjustment. However, the
process I follow does clearly indicate that there may be sufficient play in
the vertical bed mechanism to cause some printing error if the guides
and/or jacking screw have too little or too much lubricant...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6656#msg6656>
« *Reply #98 on:* October 02, 2013, 06:38:44 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6656;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 02, 2013, 12:24:08 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6654#msg6654>
The ribs seem to be fairly evenly around the part. There is one ~2mm wide
vertical area where it seems smoother. (either start or end of layer?)
This isn't answering my question on whether the layers grow/shrink or
oscillate back and forth. If they are like this;
==========================================
========================================
==========================================
it is different from ones that are like this:
==========================================
==========================================
==========================================
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 02, 2013, 12:24:08 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6654#msg6654>
I was running the temperature so high, because files created with the cubeX
software run that high.
Well, we all know that the CubeX software leaves a lot to be desired. Are
you using their filament?
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 02, 2013, 12:24:08 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6654#msg6654>
I will try some "thin wall" calibration and "solid cube calibration" tests
next. Any other calibration I could / should do?
Those are the two best.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6657#msg6657>
« *Reply #99 on:* October 03, 2013, 09:00:28 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6657;topic=689.50;last_msg=13088>
evanevery, the vertical movement is smoth, but I will double check by
decoupling the spindle nut and checking rails and nut/spindle.
PenskeGuy, sorry I misunderstood your question. It appears the layers grow
/ shrink.
I am using cubify filament.
I printed the same part with the cubeX printfile, and it came out smother
on the side (picture 1) (although the rest was crappy) and on the opposite
side of the part (picture 2) it was also smother but showed a little
pattern every ~ so many layers.
thank you
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6659#msg6659>
« *Reply #100 on:* October 03, 2013, 02:29:45 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6659;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
What's interesting is how the two slicers see the model. I'm at a loss at
present as to the cause of the reproducible waves that appear in each layer
of the CubeX print; creating vertical patterns throughout the print. That's
a pretty groaty print.
That the KS slice produces layers that are not the same dimension is
puzzling. If the layers were all the same dimension, but offset from each
other, this would indicate a hardware issue. That they shrink/grow (I'm
assuming all the way around the perimeter) could be a hardware issue but
then, if it was, it also should appear in the CubeX print--at least to some
degree.
Can you attach the model to a post, so we can look at that and slice it?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6671#msg6671>
« *Reply #101 on:* October 04, 2013, 06:44:21 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6671;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Here is the .stl file and also the .bfb file that was printed.
I just printed a different part in PLA and it came out pretty smooth.
So it seems the settings work for PLA but need to be tweaked for ABS.
I will try to do the thin wall and solid cube calibrations.
thank you.
[image: *] Test part 1.STL<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2361> (49.98
kB - downloaded 11 times.)
[image: *] Test part 1_0.125_30-40-40.bfb<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2362> (697.6
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6699#msg6699>
« *Reply #102 on:* October 07, 2013, 05:57:41 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6699;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Hey All!
I manege to get a nice outcome with my ABS settings on the Cubex Due (in
terms of cleanness and surface). only problem I still can't handle, is that
after running endless tests I keep getting a printed model that is around
0.5mm smaller than it should.
I have tried changing many of the parameters to get a better result, but
all for nothing...
Perhaps someone here had the same problem, or just an idea what parameters
actually have to do with the size of the model so I can concentrate my test
on these.
Thanks a lot folks!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6700#msg6700>
« *Reply #103 on:* October 07, 2013, 06:13:19 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6700;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Can folks with good ABS prints please post their ABS temps/settings?
I'm also wondering if the issue 1LOOOOOPY1 is seeing could be related to
rotational binding of the CubeX cartridge. I have seen similar patterns in
some ABS prints and I'm trying to check on that now. I'm wondering if
problems with the rotation of the filament spindle can effect the amount of
material coming out of the nozzles. It might also stretch the filament a
bit which would effectively cause the amount of material entering the
nozzle to be a bit low. If the spindle rotates OK most of the way around,
and then has an issue for a small part of the rotation, and then frees up
again, maybe this could be the cause of the undulation pattern you see in
the sides of your model (as the amount of material flowing through the
nozzle oscillates similarly).
Its just a guess here, but perhaps changing the cartridge to another color
would help diagnose if its a cartridge issue...
We REALLY need to get these (unaffordable, unreliable, unavailable) CubeX
cartridges out of the equation (permanently)...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6701#msg6701>
« *Reply #104 on:* October 07, 2013, 09:19:38 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6701;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
I wondered about that as well, but then over the last week or so I've
experienced some similar issues with some PLA prints. I was seeing a
regular banding pattern on some prints. I resorted to printing a number of
simple cubes and cylinders to explore the issue further. I found that the
banding pattern would change depending on the layer thickness. The banding
would almost disappear when the layer thickness was greater than about .40
mm, and it got really bad when it was around .10 mm. There is a very
regular pattern to the banding as well. The G-code is identical for each
layer (except for z), so it is not the software that is the issue. I
wonder if it may be a combination of a bad linear bearing (one of mine is
making slight grinding noises) or if there is a stepper motor issue. If
the stepper motor is missing or skipping over a step once in a while, could
this compress some of the layers? When I get the chance, I will post some
of my pictures. In the meantime, I would suggest trying some different
settings for layer thickness.
I also wonder if this problem may also be tied to a relationship between
the Z spindle rod and the z height resolution and imperial versus metric
measuring systems. If the spindle rod has a certain number of threads per
INCH and the Z height is in MILIMETERS, is it possible that the stepper
motor stops somewhere between certain resolutions. If the motor has 200
steps between each revolution, and there are 8 threads per inch on the
spindle, then each "step" would move the table 0.0159 mm. There should be
some resolutions that would be more precise then others if the motor has to
stop on one side or the other of a pre-set resolution (eg: 0.127mm, 0.254
mm, 0.381 mm). Maybe I am totally out to lunch here... What is nice about
KissSlicer is that you can try any layer height you want.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6706#msg6706>
« *Reply #105 on:* October 07, 2013, 12:01:24 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6706;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Is the banding you are seeing related to your infill settings?
Before I switched to KISSlicer I had issues with severe witness lines that
I could see and feel in the surface of the part. These were directly
related to the intersection of the infill and the wall of the part...Really
nasty looking.
Since switching I have not had this problem return!!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6707#msg6707>
« *Reply #106 on:* October 07, 2013, 12:15:52 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6707;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Lucas, Yes, please post your kisslicer setting that work for you.
(extrusion width, infill extrusion width, ect....)
After running the thin wall calibration I ended up with a flow tweak of 1
(1.1 was the original setting).
evanevery, I am running all my spools outside the cartridge on an external
spool holder to avoid the possible binding, but it's a good point to watch
out for. I will double check if it is moving smooth. I have tried also
different spool, about the same.
The cubify cartridges' filament is ~ 1.68 - 1.7mm diameter. The extruder
seems to be sensitive to the filament thickness. I tried an aftermarket
filament that measured ~ 1.75 and the extruder started "clicking" and
having issues. The extruder mechanism is fixed for a certain diameter. So
you have to find an aftermarket filament with the same thickness as the
cubify one.
Warren,
Is the CubeX spindle metric? I will try and measure the pitch tonight.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6708#msg6708>
« *Reply #107 on:* October 07, 2013, 01:02:03 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6708;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on October 07, 2013, 06:13:19 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6700#msg6700>
We REALLY need to get these (unaffordable, unreliable, unavailable) CubeX
cartridges out of the equation (permanently)...
Amen and amen!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6710#msg6710>
« *Reply #108 on:* October 07, 2013, 02:53:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6710;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on October 07, 2013, 06:13:19 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6700#msg6700>
I'm also wondering if the issue 1LOOOOOPY1 is seeing could be related to
rotational binding of the CubeX cartridge. I'm wondering if problems with
the rotation of the filament spindle can effect the amount of material
coming out of the nozzles. It might also stretch the filament a bit which
would effectively cause the amount of material entering the nozzle to be a
bit low.
If the filament were stretched, it would change the extrusion output but
have you tried stretching cold filament?
Quote from: evanevery on October 07, 2013, 06:13:19 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6700#msg6700>
If the spindle rotates OK most of the way around, and then has an issue for
a small part of the rotation, and then frees up again, maybe this could be
the cause of the undulation pattern you see in the sides of your model (as
the amount of material flowing through the nozzle oscillates similarly).
That which says to me that this isn't the issue is that KS has one problem
(grow/shrink of layers), Cubify has a different problem (waves in the
wall), while the hardware hasn't changed between the two operations.
I sliced the part and, while it did have an edge error, the paths looked
fine; not exhibiting either of the two problems that show up in the print.
« *Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 03:03:14 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6711#msg6711>
« *Reply #109 on:* October 07, 2013, 02:58:11 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6711;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
However, I did notice this:
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 02, 2013, 08:41:53 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6647#msg6647>
The part in the picture is ABS, layer height .125 (I see similar at .25
layer),
Skin thickness 1.2
Extrusion width 0.6
Infill extrusion width 0.5
Loops 2
hollow
I'm unsuccessful in searching for the actual nozzle diameter on the CubeX.
Not a surprise, knowing BfB. With them, less is more; especially when it
comes to supplying information. The nozzle diameter on my 3DT is 0.5mm.
This is the value set as Extrusion Width in KS for a 0.25mm Layer
Thickness; as suggested in the tooltip. This value is 0.1mm less than that
which is specified in Axon for that Layer Thickness, as I get better prints
using it. For other Layer Thicknesses the values are:
- 0.5000 Layer Thickness = 0.65mm Extrusion Width
- 0.2500 Layer Thickness = 0.50mm Extrusion Width
- 0.1250 Layer Thickness = 0.40mm Extrusion Width
- 0.1875 Layer Thickness = 0.45mm Extrusion Width
- 0.1250 Layer Thickness = 0.40mm Extrusion Width
- 0.1000 Layer Thickness = 0.38mm Extrusion Width
As the Layer Thickness diminishes, the Extrusion Width DROPS in proportion,
so as to maintain a constant thickness to width cross section. This
principle is followed in Axon as well. No matter what the CubeX nozzle
diameter may be, a 0.6mm Extrusion Width on a 0.125mm Layer Thickness is
way too much. You're trying to force far too much material into a smaller
space. With a 1.75mm nominal filament diameter, as opposed to the 3mm on
the 3DT using the widths above, that's a lot of pressure trying to squeeze
that wide in so thin a space. With a Flow Tweak of 1.1, the issue is
aggravated.
Try the Extrusion Widths above, perform another set of calibrations using
them, and see how it goes with the print.
« *Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 03:19:26 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6712#msg6712>
« *Reply #110 on:* October 07, 2013, 08:47:32 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6712;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Thank you PenskeGuy, really appreciate you always taking the time to help
and also explain.
The cubeX print nozzle is 0.5mm.
I will try to print again with 0.25 layer, 0.5 extrusion width and flow
tweak of 1.
Stupid questions:
On a 2 loop (or more loops) setting, is the inner loop printed with
Extrusion width or Infill extrusion width?
Can Skin thickness or Infill extrusion width affect outer layer quality? I
assume it should not if flow tweak was calibrated?
Bill D, have you tried printing a .bfb file with no cartridge installed,
but filament loaded on side spool?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6713#msg6713>
« *Reply #111 on:* October 07, 2013, 09:04:04 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6713;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Tonight I tried a number of things, and one that got rid of the majority of
ridges was to change the Min Layer from 20 to 5 (found under the fan/cool
settings). This allowed the extruder motor to turn faster since the layer
speed is not slowed down. Attached is a picture of a 30 mm disk printed
on the left with #5 and right with #20.
The extruder motor hardly turns at all even at a relatively fast extrusion
rate, so perhaps there is a minimum threshold where it is no longer very
well controlled.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2364;image>
[image: *] IMG_00000970_edit.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2364> (303.75
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6716#msg6716>
« *Reply #112 on:* October 08, 2013, 01:01:33 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6716;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 07, 2013, 08:47:32 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6712#msg6712>
On a 2 loop (or more loops) setting, is the inner loop printed with
Extrusion width or Infill extrusion width?
Extrusion Width applies to all paths that are not Sparse Infill.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 07, 2013, 08:47:32 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6712#msg6712>
Can Skin thickness or Infill extrusion width affect outer layer quality? I
assume it should not if flow tweak was calibrated?
Yes, as can Loop / Solid Infill Overlap. In a solid cube calibration, where
you determine the Solid Infill attachment to the Perimeter, if the overlap
is too great for the specified Infill Extrusion Width, the Perimeter can
become distorted. I have been wondering if this is the cause of the Cubify
waviness, but you said that the setting was hollow.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6735#msg6735>
« *Reply #113 on:* October 09, 2013, 08:27:50 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6735;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
I am trying to understand and learn the setting and effects, looking at
sliced parts with different settings, but still need help.
What determines the loop 1 and loop 2 overlap?
If for example my Extrusion Width is set to 0.6, with 2 Loops, would that
determine a minimum skin thickness?
What if skin thickness would be set to 0.8 with Extrusion Width of 0.6, 2
loops?
Regarding Infill Extrusion width, it only applies to Sparse Infill /
Stacked sparse infill? (Green and Dark green path color key)? So in a
hollow part, everything prints with Extrusion Width?
Is the Gain setting in the Printer/Extruder tab setting the baseline factor
for the extrusion speed? And you use flow tweak then to fine tune?
thank you
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6737#msg6737>
« *Reply #114 on:* October 09, 2013, 12:07:25 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6737;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 09, 2013, 08:27:50 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6735#msg6735>
What determines the loop 1 and loop 2 overlap?
If for example my Extrusion Width is set to 0.6, with 2 Loops, would that
determine a minimum skin thickness?
What if skin thickness would be set to 0.8 with Extrusion Width of 0.6, 2
loops?
Loops make up the minimum wall thickness based upon Extrusion Width. The
Skin Thickness setting adds to that only if it is greater than the sum of
the number of Loops*Extrusion Width. It does this by generating Infill that
satisfies the overall thickness setting not covered by Loops. If Skin
Thickness is less than number of Loops*Extrusion Width, it does nothing
except influence the top/bottom handled by Solid Infill.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 09, 2013, 08:27:50 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6735#msg6735>
Regarding Infill Extrusion width, it only applies to Sparse Infill /
Stacked sparse infill? (Green and Dark green path color key)? So in a
hollow part, everything prints with Extrusion Width?
In a hollow part, everything prints with Loops so, yes. The UI and Tooltips
need some updating, still, in order to be less ambiguous; especially having
two types of Infill. Extrusion Width applies to everything except Sparse
Infill.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 09, 2013, 08:27:50 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6735#msg6735>
Is the Gain setting in the Printer/Extruder tab setting the baseline factor
for the extrusion speed? And you use flow tweak then to fine tune?
Yes. Gain is a gross setting used only in extreme instances. It alters the
mm/rev factor that is hardcoded. Usually, you just leave it alone. Flow
Tweak is more than you'll need to adjust the output volume.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6741#msg6741>
« *Reply #115 on:* October 09, 2013, 04:01:55 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6741;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on May 16, 2013, 09:32:37 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg5303#msg5303>
Skip?
I actually changed mine from P32000 S900 to P57000 S600. This is 600 lower
P than what Axon does. The default RPM for this in Axon is 60. 90, IMO, is
too fast for a first prime anyway. After this is complete, the firmware
continues with a lower RPM prime, then the head leaves the wipe box. It
ensures that the extruder is fully ready and I have had better results
after making this change in the G-code inserts.
PenskeGuy,
where did you make this change to the Prime code? Has anything changed
since you posted this?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6743#msg6743>
« *Reply #116 on:* October 10, 2013, 12:02:00 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6743;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
In the Select Extruder G-code tab. I dropped back from the P57000 to
P42000, as there seemed no use for the extra amount of purge.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6756#msg6756>
« *Reply #117 on:* October 11, 2013, 12:30:17 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6756;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
The test cube that I am using is 15x15x15. Printing with cubify white ABS.
(so far printed 15 with different settings, and did not always print the
cube to full height).
When doing the thin wall calibration, I come up with a 1.0 flow tweak.
When printing the cube at 0.25 layer, vase, with 2 loops, 1.0 skin
thickness, 0.5 extrusion width, 15mm/s speed and 1.0 flow tweak, the
results are:
wall thickness is between 1.0 and 1.05, but there are gaps in the extrusion
(picture 1). The gaps get worse with flow tweak 0.95.
When I up the flow tweak to 1.1, the gaps go away, but the wall thickness
goes up to between 1.06 to 1.13.
The gaps also go away if I slow down to 10mm/s speed from 15mm/s.
Is there any other tweak to do?
The cube outside dimensions don't seem to change with the changing Flow
tweak values between 0.95 and 1.1. The cube outside measures between 14.9mm
and 15mm.
Seems like that the first wall thickness (the wall where the layer starts)
is always a little thinner (by ~ 0.05mm) than the other 3 walls.
The outside dimension of the cube measures the same.
Overall I don't care so much about dimensional accuracy, but would like to
get rid of the ribbing.
So far the best results for ABS at a 0.25 layer have been:
Skin thickness 1.0, 2 Loops, Extrusion width 0.5, Infill extrusion width
0.5, 1.1 Flow tweak, but still get some ribbing that I don't see when
printing the same part with a cubeX slicer file. Overall the cubeX slicer
part come out crapier, but I don't see the ribbing much. (picture 2). There
is a section that printed very smooth in the kisslicer part (shoulder
height area where it looks burnt).
I think it comes down to tweaking the parameters in kisslicer. Just not
sure what else to tweak or try?
Also have to revisit printing with PLA, because I have one model that
printed very smooth in PLA.
Thank you.
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« *Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 12:32:31 PM by 1looooopy1* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6758#msg6758>
« *Reply #118 on:* October 11, 2013, 02:06:35 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6758;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 12:30:17 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6756#msg6756>
When doing the thin wall calibration, I come up with a 1.0 flow tweak.
How can you get an accurate measurement if the walls are ribbed?
What Flow Tweak setting do you arrive at with a solid cube?
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 12:30:17 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6756#msg6756>
When printing the cube at 0.25 layer, vase, with 2 loops, 1.0 skin
thickness, 0.5 extrusion width, 15mm/s speed and 1.0 flow tweak, the
results are:
wall thickness is between 1.0 and 1.05, but there are gaps in the extrusion
(picture 1). The gaps get worse with flow tweak 0.95.
When I up the flow tweak to 1.1, the gaps go away, but the wall thickness
goes up to between 1.06 to 1.13.
The gaps also go away if I slow down to 10mm/s speed from 15mm/s.
This would indicate that the flow/temp ratio is off. IOW, too low a
temperature for the amount of material being asked to push through a tiny
hole in a given period of time. There is a relationship between flow rate,
feed rate and temperature. The faster you want to go, the thinner the
liquid needs to be. If the viscosity is too high, the drive mechanism
cannot keep up. There is a finite limit to speed.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 12:30:17 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6756#msg6756>
Seems like that the first wall thickness (the wall where the layer starts)
is always a little thinner (by ~ 0.05mm) than the other 3 walls.
The outside dimension of the cube measures the same.
This could be due to too much retraction. The extruder is starving and
catches up as the layer progresses and the extruder reaches full pressure.
What is interesting to me in the bust model is the regularity of the
ribbing. Can't see on the cubes very well, they're out of focus. Trying to
come up with some sort of logic that would cause a cyclic pattern like
this. Even though you get different results with Cubify, it still seems
that there is a hardware issue. Perhaps it is a compatibility between
hardware and slicer that is being uncovered. Wouldn't be a surprise,
knowing 3D Systems.
Are there any clicking sounds produced while printing? I'm unfamiliar with
the adjustments on the extruder drives, as differing from a 3DT. There is a
heavy spring under a cap screw that presses the filament against the drive
lead screw on a 3DT. I'm assuming that similar is on the redesigned drive.
Might try adjusting the pressure if that is the case. If, as in the above
analysis, the temp is too low for the flow requirement a higher pressure
may help, as it will provide a more positive drive forward.
I would try settling on a set of settings (heh, that's funny) like the
above where you got a good calibration, and then change the temperature in
5 degree increments and note any and all differences in output.
« *Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 02:08:39 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6759#msg6759>
« *Reply #119 on:* October 11, 2013, 02:31:47 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6759;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 07, 2013, 08:47:32 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6712#msg6712>
Bill D, have you tried printing a .bfb file with no cartridge installed,
but filament loaded on side spool?
No, I haven't tried that.
I suspect the main board would still check the cartridge slots regardless
of what type of g-code file it's printing. In other words, there is nothing
in the g-code file which tells the printer to check the cartridge status.
That happens either way.
I decided to pit the latest version of the CubeX slicer (a few days old)
against KISSlicer on a really small part. That square is marked in
millimeters. The print on top is from CubeX. The one on the bottom is from
KISSlicer. Both have a bit of trouble solid filling such a tiny part, but
obviously CubeX is a lot worse on accuracy.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6760#msg6760>
« *Reply #120 on:* October 11, 2013, 02:36:40 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6760;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
What is the Crowning set to?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6761#msg6761>
« *Reply #121 on:* October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6761;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
After I did the thin wall calibration, I checked the solid cube and it
looked good.
What would you do if the thin wall calibration gives you one flow rate
value and the solid cube a different?
During printing the 15x15x15 cube, I changed once the temperature half way
up the print from 260 to 235, but did not see difference in the print
outcome or change in ribbing.
There was no clicking from the extruder, but I heard that before when
manually going too low in temperature or too high in extrusion speed.
The CubeX extruder drive is fixed in gap for a very specific filament
diameter 1.68 - 1.70mm. That's I think why only some aftermarket filaments
work. (Tonight I can post some pictures from somebody who took the drive
apart).
To reduce the retraction, is that done by lowering the "suck" value?
Thank you again for helping.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6763#msg6763>
« *Reply #122 on:* October 11, 2013, 06:25:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6763;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6761#msg6761>
After I did the thin wall calibration, I checked the solid cube and it
looked good.
What would you do if the thin wall calibration gives you one flow rate
value and the solid cube a different?
Well, you'd make a determination as to which is more important to you. When
you did the solid calibration, did you follow this guideline:
- Enter the exact filament stock diameter in a few places and at
differing angles around the cylinder. Average the measurements. It often
isn't exactly 3mm or 1.75mm, as the case may be. This parameter makes quite
a difference, as KS computes the required extrusion volume based in part
upon this. Even cheap calipers are very helpful for this step.
- Set the Flow Tweak to 1.0
- Set the Solid infill / Loops overlap to 0.5
- Print a nice test piece (something like a squat rectangle is good,
maybe 15x15x5mm) using solid infill.
- Based on the interior of the part (not near the loops), adjust the
flow tweak parameter to taste. There should be no "doming", no "ridging",
no gaps between paths. Essentially as smooth a surface as can be realized.
- Based on the solid/loops interface, adjust the overlap parameter to
taste. No "lumping" or "bulging" of the Perimeter at the intersection. As
small a gap between "turns" as is possible.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6761#msg6761>
During printing the 15x15x15 cube, I changed once the temperature half way
up the print from 260 to 235, but did not see difference in the print
outcome or change in ribbing.
There may not have been sufficient time for the extrusion to reach a stable
temperature. A 15mm x 5mm cube isn't very large. Eliminate all extraneous
variables if you are going to uncover a cause. Even the initial phase in
starting a print will have temperature variances. Print an entire cube at a
given temperature, evaluate, then adjust and print again.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6761#msg6761>
There was no clicking from the extruder, but I heard that before when
manually going too low in temperature or too high in extrusion speed.
That would be consistent to what I mentioned about extrusion pressure.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6761#msg6761>
The CubeX extruder drive is fixed in gap for a very specific filament
diameter 1.68 - 1.70mm. That's I think why only some aftermarket filaments
work. (Tonight I can post some pictures from somebody who took the drive
apart).
That is a bad design and needs to be worked around. No one's filament is
accurate enough to set a fixed drive engagement. Idiots.
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 03:15:42 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6761#msg6761>
To reduce the retraction, is that done by lowering the "suck" value?
Yes. What are they at now? Usually, the Prime and Suck values are the same
and a good starting point is 0.75mm.
« *Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 06:27:45 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6765#msg6765>
« *Reply #123 on:* October 11, 2013, 06:49:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6765;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Makes sense, thank you.
I will re-run the solid cube calibration.
I will also re-run the whole cube with different temperature.
Attached is a screen shot for the prime and suck settings.
Also attached is a pdf file, some other user created, with detailed
pictures of the inners of the cubeX extruder assembly. Very interesting -
but stupid.
thank you
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6766#msg6766>
« *Reply #124 on:* October 11, 2013, 07:55:29 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6766;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quick update comparison. I already printed the small part using KISSlicer
and Cubex slicer on the CubeX printer. On a whim, I used Cura on my
Ultimaker to slice and print the same small part. The three are shown
below. Left to right, it's Cura/Ultimaker, KISSlicer/CubeX, Cubex/CubeX.
There is obviously something more I can do with KISSlicer settings to
improve the quality.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2409;image>
[image: *] Compare 3.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2409> (436.94
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« *Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 08:03:24 PM by BillDempsey* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6767#msg6767>
« *Reply #125 on:* October 11, 2013, 08:45:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6767;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 11, 2013, 06:49:54 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6765#msg6765>
Attached is a screen shot for the prime and suck settings.
OK. There's one big problem. 0.05mm Prime is essentially no Prime;
especially after a full 1mm Suck. Set both Prime and Suck to 0.75mm. Your
layer starts should improve significantly.
I'll check out the PDF. Thanks.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6768#msg6768>
« *Reply #126 on:* October 11, 2013, 08:50:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6768;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: BillDempsey on October 11, 2013, 07:55:29 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6766#msg6766>
The three are shown below. Left to right, it's Cura/Ultimaker,
KISSlicer/CubeX, Cubex/CubeX. There is obviously something more I can do
with KISSlicer settings to improve the quality.
Again, what is Crowning set to in KS? Crowning will fill in the small gaps
between the Loops and also the small voids.
Next, lower the Oversample resolution to have KS see smaller details. The
lower you go, the more memory is required and the slice takes more time,
because it is evaluating smaller features and generating shorter paths.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6769#msg6769>
« *Reply #127 on:* October 11, 2013, 09:43:52 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6769;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
OK. Looked through the PDF of the disassembled extruder drive and hot end.
If those optical encoders are meant to control the extruder filament drive
speed, I think we may have found the reason for the ribbing. From the
motion control projects we've worked on, the resolution of those light/dark
segments is nowhere near fine enough to produce a smooth advancement. Could
very well be that the CubeX firmware does some fancy footwork in
interpolation to smooth the steps out.
That said, there seems to be other CubeX users here who do not have the
ribbing issue. Color me at least partially confused.
Assuming you have two extruders or more, does the ribbing happen when
printing with them? I'm wondering if there is an issue with the encoders in
that one extruder. Swapping out whatever you can, many times leads to a
cause.
« *Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 12:27:17 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6773#msg6773>
« *Reply #128 on:* October 12, 2013, 04:49:58 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6773;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 11, 2013, 08:50:54 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6768#msg6768>
Quote from: BillDempsey on October 11, 2013, 07:55:29 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6766#msg6766>
The three are shown below. Left to right, it's Cura/Ultimaker,
KISSlicer/CubeX, Cubex/CubeX. There is obviously something more I can do
with KISSlicer settings to improve the quality.
Again, what is Crowning set to in KS? Crowning will fill in the small gaps
between the Loops and also the small voids.
Next, lower the Oversample resolution to have KS see smaller details. The
lower you go, the more memory is required and the slice takes more time,
because it is evaluating smaller features and generating shorter paths.
Thanks Penske. Sorry I didn't answer earlier, but somehow I didn't realize
you were talking to me. LOL [image: :)]
Crowning is set to 1. Oversample is currently at 0.125
Suggestions for new values? I have 12GB of RAM and I'm running 64bit, so I
should be ok on memory.
EDIT:
I just tried to change the values and realized they are greyed out. I'm
guessing I need the pro license to set those?
« *Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 05:17:24 AM by BillDempsey* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6777#msg6777>
« *Reply #129 on:* October 12, 2013, 03:54:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6777;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: BillDempsey on October 12, 2013, 04:49:58 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6773#msg6773>
Thanks Penske. Sorry I didn't answer earlier, but somehow I didn't realize
you were talking to me. LOL [image: :)]
Yeah, I looked and saw that I hadn't quoted. My post was directly under
yours, so thought it redundant.
Quote from: BillDempsey on October 12, 2013, 04:49:58 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6773#msg6773>
Crowning is set to 1. Oversample is currently at 0.125
Suggestions for new values? I have 12GB of RAM and I'm running 64bit, so I
should be ok on memory.
EDIT:
I just tried to change the values and realized they are greyed out. I'm
guessing I need the pro license to set those?
That is true.
On my 64-bit and 32-bit I usually set Crowning to 0 or sub-mm. unless there
are some Crowning paths being generated that are unnecessary or
problematical. I check them in the Paths view and adjust. Sometimes,
setting the value to non-zero alters the Loop or Infill paths to a more
beneficial pattern.
For Oversample, on the 32-bit box, I can't go below 0.06 or it'll throw a
Runtime error and quit. On the 64-bit box, I can go down past 0.001, which
is far below the printer resolution. Get the Pro license (the answer is
always "42") and set the OS to 0.03 and see how the paths look then.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6787#msg6787>
« *Reply #130 on:* October 13, 2013, 04:42:57 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6787;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Any CubeX users that can share their successful settings for PLA and ABS?
thank you.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6797#msg6797>
« *Reply #131 on:* October 14, 2013, 07:16:54 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6797;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 12, 2013, 03:54:19 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6777#msg6777>
...(the answer is always "42")...
Love the Hitchhiker reference. [image: :)]
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6799#msg6799>
« *Reply #132 on:* October 14, 2013, 08:23:06 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6799;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Problem found. - No more layer pattern or ribbing (at least on the test
cubes).
After printing test cubes all weekend with different settings PLA and ABS
on either jets and still always seeing some kind of pattern or ribbing of
the layers, I thought there must be something else going on. I turned the
heated bed off after the first few layers and the pattern or ribbing
disappeared.
When I check the z-gap and watch the gap between the bed and the print tip.
I can actually see the gap increase and decrease when I hear the heater
relay turn on and off to keep it at the set temperature. You can see it
especially when you are just heating the bed up or at higher set
temperature. That slight variation makes quite a difference.
In the attached picture, the cube on the left is with heated bed off. I
printed the exact same file for both prints. Both are 0.25 layer. (The
bottom layer is a little smushed because of tight z-gap and high 1st layer
temp etc..)
I have not noticed it so much with CubeX slicer files because I dumps a lot
more material down than kisslicer files. That extra material causes other
problems on the CubeX models but smoothens the layers.
I think Kisslicer uses the three big cooling fans more, that blow on the
print platform and cool the platform, so the heater needs to kick in more,
and depending on if or when or how frequent the fans come on, can explain
the layer ribbing pattern change.
So Kisslicer works great and my hardware is ok, just got to work out the
heat bed issue.
Was getting frustrated till I finally found the issue, but like PenskeGuy
says: "Any Day I Learn Something New Is A Good Day".
PenskeGuy, sorry for the wild goose chase.
- I checked out your blog and bio, quite impressive and awesome.
thank you for all the help
I will fine tweak the settings a little and do a few more test prints and
then post my Kisslicer settings that seem to work great with the CubeX.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2415;image>
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6802#msg6802>
« *Reply #133 on:* October 14, 2013, 08:31:16 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6802;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Glad you found it. Sure felt like a hardware issue to me; right from the
start. Yes, any variance of bed to nozzle distance, however small, will
change the available space for the extrusion to flow into. You're only
dealing with thousandths of an inch. Question is, what in the world would
cause the bed to oscillate when the heater energizes? Magnetic? Could be.
Only thing that makes sense right off.
You can control the fans on/off and speed percentage. On my 3DT, I have to
turn off "Can Do PWM" to get speeds less than 100%.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6820#msg6820>
« *Reply #134 on:* October 16, 2013, 05:32:34 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6820;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Hi All,
Can someone please explain the use of the Prime and Suck functions and what
settings i should be using?
If i set these to both be 0.75, as suggested in one of the posts, i get a
very large deposit at the start of the first layer, which really messes the
print up.
I am new to the KISSlicer software and so not really sure if my settings
are correct. Really just trial and error from reading through the posts in
this forum. If someone with a set of settings for a Cubex Duo could PM me
them as good starting point, I would be grateful.
As things stand, I really struggle with getting a clean first layer, which
i believe is down to the prime/suck values, but I'm really unsure.
Also, can anyone recommend a good set of calibration parts which can be
used to checking my settings and system setup.
Any help much appreciated.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6824#msg6824>
« *Reply #135 on:* October 16, 2013, 01:06:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6824;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: champ1981 on October 16, 2013, 05:32:34 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6820#msg6820>
As things stand, I really struggle with getting a clean first layer, which
i believe is down to the prime/suck values, but I'm really unsure.
Best to use a Skirt. It will lay down a path separated from the part all
the way around it and get the nozzle all happy before starting the part
itself. When printing raftless on glass, it is extremely useful for
refining bed level and Z-offset, as you can mic the one layer thickness and
adjust very accurately.
That said, it could be that your temp is too high and you're getting ooze
on the way to the part. Prime/Suck really need to be adjusted from
observing the overall part quality; not just the first layer. That is
another issue and the cause will be found elsewhere.
Quote from: champ1981 on October 16, 2013, 05:32:34 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6820#msg6820>
Also, can anyone recommend a good set of calibration parts which can be
used to checking my settings and system setup.
Farther up in this thread:
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6763#msg6763
Get your materials calibrated and things may make more sense. Yes, you have
to calibrate each material at each temperature, at each feed rate if you
want consistency. Everything influences everything else. Slight variations
can be lumped together, to some degree, but any significant variation needs
its own calibration.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6833#msg6833>
« *Reply #136 on:* October 16, 2013, 07:23:07 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6833;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Yeah a skirt, or use the prime pillar. I had the same issue when switching
to KISS (without messing with the prime/suck settings).
Penske: I must be blind, where is the Oversample setting in the KISS
interface. I swear I have been through every dusty corner...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6835#msg6835>
« *Reply #137 on:* October 16, 2013, 08:56:23 PM »
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Misc. tab.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6840#msg6840>
« *Reply #138 on:* October 17, 2013, 05:29:21 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6840;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Ah on the computer I was working on I hadn't registered my Pro key so it
was greyed out. Thanks a bunch.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6842#msg6842>
« *Reply #139 on:* October 17, 2013, 08:17:03 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6842;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
What is the best remedy against splits in the part? See attached.
Part is ABS printed at 240deg, with printbed at 100deg.
The part come out great otherwise.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2434;image>
[image: *] part split.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2434> (1095.8
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6846#msg6846>
« *Reply #140 on:* October 17, 2013, 12:47:02 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6846;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
More information. How fast are you feeding? Fans on? Print envelope
shielded from drafts? How many Loops? Infill? What percent?
I'd say either slow down or raise the temp 5 deg.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6852#msg6852>
« *Reply #141 on:* October 17, 2013, 01:47:30 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6852;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: champ1981 on October 16, 2013, 05:32:34 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6820#msg6820>
As things stand, I really struggle with getting a clean first layer, which
i believe is down to the prime/suck values, but I'm really unsure.
champ1981, What I found, Kisslicer starts the first layer at a lower
z-height than CubeX files. So you can add a "Z Offset" in the Kisslicer
menu (In the Printer / Hardware tab of the Kisslicer software).
See attached pictures. When I looked at the displayed z-value during the
first layer print, the Kisslicer was at 0.25 and with CubeX file it was at
0.50. (printing with 0.25 layer height).
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2440;image>
[image: *] screen1.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2440> (378.06
kB, 996x664 - viewed 23 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2442;image>
[image: *] screen2.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2442> (434.41
kB, 996x664 - viewed 34 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2444;image>
[image: *] Kisslicer screen shot 1.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2444> (153.61
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6854#msg6854>
« *Reply #142 on:* October 17, 2013, 02:03:02 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6854;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 17, 2013, 12:47:02 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6846#msg6846>
More information. How fast are you feeding? Fans on? Print envelope
shielded from drafts? How many Loops? Infill? What percent?
ABS, 0.25 layer, hollow, 2Loops, 0.8 thickness, 0.5 Extrusion width, 0.5
infill extrusion width, 1.1 Flow tweak, Speeds: 15-25-30, 240deg print
temp. Fans off.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6864#msg6864>
« *Reply #143 on:* October 17, 2013, 03:12:45 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6864;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Other than the temp, depending upon who the manufacturer is, that all looks
OK. Didn't say if you've enclosed the print envelope. That helps things a
lot. I have an R20 reflector flood aimed into the cavity and the sides and
front almost completely blocked with removable foamcore panels. Keeps
everything nice and steady in there, with low humidity and elevated
temperature & PLA stays dry.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6865#msg6865>
« *Reply #144 on:* October 17, 2013, 04:23:32 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6865;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 17, 2013, 03:12:45 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6864#msg6864>
Other than the temp, depending upon who the manufacturer is, that all looks
OK. Didn't say if you've enclosed the print envelope. That helps things a
lot. I have an R20 reflector flood aimed into the cavity and the sides and
front almost completely blocked with removable foamcore panels. Keeps
everything nice and steady in there, with low humidity and elevated
temperature & PLA stays dry.
This is the first time I had an ABS part crack, but I just started using
Kisslicer and playing with the settings.
I have to look a the setting when I printed something similar before and
did not get any cracking. I think I had higher flow tweak or maybe thicker
wall or some infill.
What if I place a towel over the printer? Did you ever have an issue with
it getting too hot? With the heatbed at 100deg, it can get pretty hot in
there without an air outlet.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6867#msg6867>
« *Reply #145 on:* October 17, 2013, 04:31:56 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6867;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Don't make it air tight. You want slow air circulation, without the
possibility of cooler draft puffs entering and disturbing things. On
problem parts, add another Loop and/or raise the temp, so that the layers
fuse better.
« *Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 04:37:31 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6869#msg6869>
« *Reply #146 on:* October 18, 2013, 07:55:07 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6869;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Kisslicer installation and setup for the CubeX. - updated
Attached are instructions and zipped up files to get the Kisslicer setup to
use with the CubeX.
Thank you to Evanevery and PenskeGuy to make this work for the CubeX.
[image: *] Kisslicer CubeX installation rev1.pdf<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2450> (322.93
kB - downloaded 67 times.)
[image: *] Kisslicer_settings_CubeX_rev1.zip<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2456> (664.43
kB - downloaded 59 times.)
[image: *] Thin wall and solid cube calibration.pdf<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2457> (61.76
kB - downloaded 59 times.)
« *Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 05:24:32 PM by 1looooopy1* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6872#msg6872>
« *Reply #147 on:* October 18, 2013, 02:12:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6872;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Nice calibration writeup. Seems I've seen that somewhere... [image: ;D]
Might just leave out the first section entirely. Thin Wall is covered first
in the section below.
I'd add the part about the cube being *solid*, not modeled walls, to the
cube description in the lower section.
Also move the "Extrusion Width = Nozzle Diameter" into the "In the Material
tab:" section, just above "Set Flow tweak to 1.0".
To make the package complete, and to make sure that *solid* is what is
used, here's two models. The larger one I used for the Thin Wall test, as
my mics have small (0.03125) diameter measuring surface extensions to get
into narrow places where the standard 0.250 diameter mics won't fit.
[image: *] box-halfinch.stl<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2453> (0.67
kB - downloaded 17 times.)
[image: *] box-75inch.stl<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2454> (0.67
kB - downloaded 16 times.)
« *Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 02:40:10 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6874#msg6874>
« *Reply #148 on:* October 18, 2013, 03:47:48 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6874;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
Thanks, PenskeGuy,
I will edit it into the same post so it is all together.
Your input and help is always greatly appreciated.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6892#msg6892>
« *Reply #150 on:* October 21, 2013, 12:59:02 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6892;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: jms on October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6890#msg6890>
2) What ambient temperature should you be at? Does it matter?
The higher the better, up to a point. Consistency is more important but
somewhat elevated temperature is advisable.
Quote from: jms on October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6890#msg6890>
I am also thinking of enclosing the Duo. We live in Canada, but not in an
igloo. [image: :)]
I'm on the coast in Central California, where the climate is rather
constant, and enclosing makes a difference. No matter where you live and
what your external (to the printer) environment may be, unless it's a
totally controlled one, ya gotta think about internal atmospheric changes.
Even an unnoticeable waft of cooler air, perhaps caused by someone merely
walking past, can make a change in the print's energy quotient; creating an
across the part stress.
Quote from: jms on October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6890#msg6890>
3) Does setting a 360 jitter change the warp? It's a theory of mine that
not starting in the same position each layer will help, as we noticed the
most significant warp was on the starting corner of our bracket.
On Loops, the head spends more time at the start/end than anywhere else.
Slowing down or sitting there transfers more energy within a given time
frame. If you are employing multiple Loops, it is more of a factor.
Quote from: jms on October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6890#msg6890>
4) Does *anyone* use a non-adhesive solution to warping?
Here, it's more about getting parts to stick at all, than warping. Many
times, a part can be designed to relieve the stress.
For both ABS and PLA, I either print on glass or blue tape. When printing
PLA on glass, I apply only a thin film of dissolved ABS cement; and I mean
THIN--both in height *and* viscosity. The mixture is essentially a tinted
acetone; no noticeable thickening when compared to pure acetone. It is
applied to the glass with a folded over facial tissue as a barely
noticeable film. You have to look at a severe angle to see if it's there.
That's all it takes. Only a molecular interface is necessary. Anything
thicker is a waste of material and time to clean it up. On PLA parts, it
scrubs off with a short plastic nail brush under a bit of warm soapy water.
With ABS on glass, the hair spray really works the best, although the ABS
film is a close second.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6896#msg6896>
« *Reply #151 on:* October 21, 2013, 11:52:30 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6896;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
jms,
How big is the part footprint, what does it look like, can you post picture?
What is your heated bed temperature setting?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6898#msg6898>
« *Reply #152 on:* October 21, 2013, 01:14:00 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6898;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Don't have a heated bed. Some parts are 6"h x 6"w x 12"d.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6905#msg6905>
« *Reply #153 on:* October 21, 2013, 06:19:22 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6905;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Hey guys, I am not down at the shop but I will post some pictures of the
warp tomorrow when I get down there. I don't remember the exact dimensions
either, but roughly 4" x 6" in an L shape. Heated bed temp we've run at
100, 105, 110, 120. Ambient temperature is 72F.
Penske: do you have a raft on that part? That's a gorgeous print.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6909#msg6909>
« *Reply #154 on:* October 22, 2013, 12:40:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6909;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Minimal raft, all the same material, as it doesn't need to be removed from
the support for its intended use.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6911#msg6911>
« *Reply #155 on:* October 22, 2013, 07:36:13 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6911;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
HOW to do for intall 1.04 firmware in the cubex?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6916#msg6916>
« *Reply #156 on:* October 23, 2013, 09:11:15 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6916;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on October 18, 2013, 07:55:07 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6869#msg6869>
Kisslicer installation and setup for the CubeX. - updated
Attached are instructions and zipped up files to get the Kisslicer setup to
use with the CubeX.
Thank you to Evanevery and PenskeGuy to make this work for the CubeX.
Trying to calibrate for pla using the instructions for thin wall using
15x15x5 cube, but it seems that no matter what I am setting the prime
setting to, I am getting a puddle at the start of the print, and then large
gaps on the first wall layers afterwards. Adjusting tweak up to 1.3 seems
to make the gaps smaller, but increases the wall thickness considerably.
if:
.05 prime, .5 suck, 1.0 tweak = small puddle large gaps on first wall but
good wall thickness
while .09prime, .5 suck, 1.0 tweak = larger puddle, same gaps, how do I
decrease the gaps and puddle while maintaining the thickness?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6917#msg6917>
« *Reply #157 on:* October 23, 2013, 09:22:34 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6917;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: babas45 on October 22, 2013, 07:36:13 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6911#msg6911>
HOW to do for intall 1.04 firmware in the cubex?
1. Unplug printer
5. Connect a USB cord to your printer and computer.
6. Hold the button marked "+" and simultaneously plug in the printer (you
may need help)
7. On your computer, open Cubify software and navigate to the update
firmware option click on it, and then select the firmware version you wish
to install.
8. Wait for the pop up window to indicate success then Unplug cubeX printer
9. Unplug USB cord from printer
10. Wait 10 seconds
11. Plug printer in and enter activation code.
12. Use touch screen to verify your software version.
You will need the reset your z-gap.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6920#msg6920>
« *Reply #158 on:* October 24, 2013, 07:13:18 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6920;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Hello everybody !
First, thank for all your post, they are really helpfull for a newbee like
me !
I installed Kisslicer with the setup for CUBEX and the quality is amazing,
i completely forget the cubex software.
I printed lots of 3d file with the basic setup send by 1Looooopy1 and it
work well, but i tried to increase the quality with a layer of 0.1 mm.
I took a picture of the first try, the yoda on the left is 0.1 and the one
on the right 0.25.
I'm really happy with the vertical print result but i don't understand why
it make an hole on the top of the head, do you have an idea to solve this ?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B45Rq_CeWLNXN0ZDelNzS09xRFU/edit?usp=sharing
I change the basic setup to this :
LayerThick : .1
ExtrusionWi : 0.38
InfillExtrusionWi : 0.38
Main Temp : 260
FirstLayer : 270
Speed Fast :
Perimeter : 15
SIS : 20
SI 25
Precise :
Perimeter : 5
SIS : 10
SI : 25
It was really slow to print it, 4H30 to complete it VS 1H30 in 0.25. And in
the 0.25 print supports were activated not in the .1.
Thanks for your reply !
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6925#msg6925>
« *Reply #159 on:* October 24, 2013, 09:54:22 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6925;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on October 23, 2013, 09:11:15 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6916#msg6916>
Adjusting tweak up to 1.3 seems to make the gaps smaller, but increases the
wall thickness considerably. if:
.05 prime, .5 suck, 1.0 tweak = small puddle large gaps on first wall but
good wall thickness
while .09prime, .5 suck, 1.0 tweak = larger puddle, same gaps, how do I
decrease the gaps and puddle while maintaining the thickness?
1.3 Flow Tweak is pretty high. Usually, I get positive results with only
+/- 0.1
Gaps would be caused by the large difference between Prime and Suck. The
extruder is being starved at the beginning of the path. Try a larger
setting (1.25) for both. As you adjust, keep them even or at least a lot
closer to each other. A small percentage of bias is OK. What you have there
is too great a difference.
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Prime and Suck and Puddles and Gaps<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6932#msg6932>
« *Reply #160 on:* October 25, 2013, 01:45:14 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6932;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I have a comment about Prime and Suck and Puddles and Gaps.
I am running a Cubex Trio firmware 1.06
I tried a large number for prime but it did not work for me. I ended up
with a very large puddle followed by gaps.
Prime .05, Suck 1, Wipe 10 work well for me for PLA and ABS.
Make sure that the Gain (under Printer, Extruders) is set to .0225 (for
Cubex) for all three extruders. I messed that up at one point moving
Kisslicer to a different PC.
Make sure that the extruder map is setup the way you want and that each
extruder has the correct material assigned. I seem to have a lot of
problems getting this set up correctly before my first cup of coffee. The
problem gets better after my second cup of coffee.
My 2 cents...Hope it helps.
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Re: Prime and Suck and Puddles and Gaps<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6933#msg6933>
« *Reply #161 on:* October 25, 2013, 03:11:32 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6933;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on October 25, 2013, 01:45:14 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6932#msg6932>
I tried a large number for prime but it did not work for me. I ended up
with a very large puddle followed by gaps.
Prime .05, Suck 1, Wipe 10 work well for me for PLA and ABS.
Well, those settings are just a bit odd. I get that the CubeX extruder
design is different but it's not THAT different. No matter what the drive
mechanism may be, the physics environment inside extruder nozzles will be
pretty much the same. IOW, a direct drive will require small amounts, while
a Bowden set up will require relatively huge amounts, due to the inherent
slop in a push/pull cable, in order to maintain the same environment in the
nozzle as a direct drive.
A "puddle followed by gaps" doesn't make sense. First: How large a
"puddle"? Second: This sounds like ooze or residual material on the outside
of the nozzle that squishes out when the head comes in contact with the
part.
What is your temperature?
How much Z travel is there at layer start/end and how is it being set?
The gaps are caused by the very large difference between Prime and Suck.
There is no material at the nozzle entrance and no pressure built up when
the filament has been retracted 1mm but only sent forward 0.05mm. Look at
it this way, if you have a series of short paths with jumps between, pretty
soon you'll end up with zero filament in the nozzle.
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on October 25, 2013, 01:45:14 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6932#msg6932>
Make sure that the Gain (under Printer, Extruders) is set to .0225 (for
Cubex) for all three extruders.
The Gain setting is a gross adjustment, upon which all calculations are
made. It needs to be set accurately, according to the physical hardware,
before any other settings are adjusted in calibration. IOW, if it is set
incorrectly, even by a tiny bit, you could be unnecessarily offsetting it
by adjusting other settings and still not get good results.
« *Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 03:15:41 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6940#msg6940>
« *Reply #162 on:* October 26, 2013, 09:11:59 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6940;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I get good results with Prime 0.06, Suck 0.5, Wipe 10.
Not sure why prime and suck have to be so different to work?
Have not tried with higher suck, but tried with Prime 0.1 and Prime 1 (see
attached pictures).
The cube with the smaller glob at the beginning of the first layer was with
Prime 0.1, and the other cube with the large glob with Prime 1.
It seems to just glob at the beginning of the first layer and then be ok.
Seems like the prime setting makes a large difference at the beginning of
the first layer, but then not so much later.?
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2480;image>
[image: *] test cubes 1.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2480> (565.29
kB, 1313x682 - viewed 19 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2482;image>
[image: *] test cubes 2.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2482> (852.06
kB, 1427x906 - viewed 18 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6942#msg6942>
« *Reply #163 on:* October 26, 2013, 11:57:58 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6942;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
WTF? I thought everyone was talking about a "puddle" at the start of *every* layer.
OK, messing with Prime, and keeping it waaaaaay lower than it ever should
be in relation to Suck, may have some influence on the puddle problem but
is *not* the solution. It's a band aid. There is some odd (no surprise
there) situation going on with the CubeX firmware.
Does the head move from the wipe box and just sit there spewing material
for a while before moving?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6946#msg6946>
« *Reply #164 on:* October 27, 2013, 12:56:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6946;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 26, 2013, 11:57:58 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6942#msg6942>
WTF? I thought everyone was talking about a "puddle" at the start of *every* layer.
OK, messing with Prime, and keeping it waaaaaay lower than it ever should
be in relation to Suck, may have some influence on the puddle problem but
is *not* the solution. It's a band aid. There is some odd (no surprise
there) situation going on with the CubeX firmware.
Does the head move from the wipe box and just sit there spewing material
for a while before moving?
Hi PenskeGuy,
in my case, yes the head sits for about 1.5 maybe even a full 2 seconds
before it begins moving. I was digging around in the CUBEIT.INI file and I
am seeing something that I am not sure about. I am way only a beginner
with this so maybe you or evanevry might have some insight. here is the
code I am talking about
[Config]
; This is the replacement priming command used for any extruders being used
(replaces data for M551, M552, M553)
*M55=P1500 S150*
The P1500 S150 seems suspect. If we are running cubit as a post processor,
could this be affecting the settings in the actual GCODE of the BFB file we
are using to print?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6948#msg6948>
« *Reply #165 on:* October 27, 2013, 02:01:17 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6948;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
That would be the smoking gun. Comment that out and set your Prime/Suck
values to .75mm each and try a print. May not be perfect but will get some
good data from which to adjust and tell if that purge is the cause of the
"puddle".
What is odd bout that M55 command is that it is the first three characters
of an M55<EXT+1> variable that controls purge for specific extruders.
Without the third number, how are they targeting which extruder gets purged?
In the mean time, can you post the g-code file for that open top cube, so
we can take a look at the command sequence?
« *Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 02:05:16 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6949#msg6949>
« *Reply #166 on:* October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6949;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Here are the files. I am more concerned with what I don't see changing
than with what cubeit is changing.
the prints came out exactly the same, and commenting out the mod in the ini
file doesn't seen to do anything to the output. I am wondering what you
think of the M227 lines on the standared BFB output I see vs the cubit
output?
Straight BFB file
M551 P32000 S900 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222 later in the file several times
*Cubeit Output file, with and without M55 line commented out*
M551 P1500 S150 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222
Seems to have the same puddle on either print though.
[image: *] 15mmx15mmcube_75PS_value_cubeit_output.txt<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2498> (5.9
kB - downloaded 5 times.)
[image: *] 15mmx15mmcube_75PS_value_bfb.txt<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2499> (5.81
kB - downloaded 3 times.)
[image: *] 15mmx15mmcube_INI File modified.txt<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2500> (5.9
kB - downloaded 3 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6950#msg6950>
« *Reply #167 on:* October 27, 2013, 03:28:26 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6950;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6949#msg6949>
Here are the files. I am more concerned with what I don't see changing
than with what cubeit is changing.
the prints came out exactly the same, and commenting out the mod in the ini
file doesn't seen to do anything to the output. I am wondering what you
think of the M227 lines on the standared BFB output I see vs the cubit
output?
Straight BFB file
M551 P32000 S900 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222 later in the file several times
*Cubeit Output file, with and without M55 line commented out*
M551 P1500 S150 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222
Seems to have the same puddle on either print though.
I think there must be some connection with M227. I have modified the M551
line by itself, with no change. After putting it back to the setting that
was output by cubit, I tried modifying the M227 line. M227 must control
the first layer Prime and Suck as well as any return from cooling pauses
(first to second layer, and head changes). I only changed the first M227
line in the file from P2222 to P222 and saw considerable improvement. When
the head returned from it's cooling wipe, it again laid down copious
puddling. After changing both M227 lines to P30, the print was nearly
perfect. think with a setting of somewhere in the 20 to 25 range for
this particular filament.
Now the question is what does M227 S2222 do?
« *Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 04:04:02 PM by bkjnky* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6953#msg6953>
« *Reply #168 on:* October 27, 2013, 05:51:15 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6953;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I think it would be helpful to look at the CubeIT.ini file in this regard.
You can open it in the text editor. The author comments on a number of
settings here including the prime and suck settings. I think you can
change those settings in this file, although I haven't had time to
experiment lately.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6954#msg6954>
« *Reply #169 on:* October 27, 2013, 06:12:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6954;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: WarrenE on October 27, 2013, 05:51:15 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6953#msg6953>
I think it would be helpful to look at the CubeIT.ini file in this regard.
You can open it in the text editor. The author comments on a number of
settings here including the prime and suck settings. I think you can
change those settings in this file, although I haven't had time to
experiment lately.
Yes, precisely what I am talking about above. Unfortunately the modifying
the M55X setting in the INI file doesn't seem to have any effect on the
first path or on any subsequent paths that involve head changes/cool
downs. also when adjusting the prime/suck setting in KISSlicer its the
M227 lines that are being changed, not the M55X lines.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6962#msg6962>
« *Reply #170 on:* October 28, 2013, 01:45:02 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6962;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 06:12:23 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6954#msg6954>
also when adjusting the prime/suck setting in KISSlicer its the M227 lines
that are being changed, not the M55X lines.
That is correct. In M227, the S is Suck, the P is Prime; both in stepper
steps. This line is generated from the Prime/Suck values entered on the
Material tab. Altering the stepper values in the G-code is the same as
setting mm values in KS.
In M55x, P is Purge amount in stepper steps and S is Speed expressed as
RPM*10.
That is why I am focusing on M55x commands, as that is what is causing the
puddle; not Prime. If it *were* Prime, there would be a puddle on*every* layer.
That is not the case. The upper part of the print is fine, with the
exception of the reported gaps that are caused by too little Prime.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6963#msg6963>
« *Reply #171 on:* October 28, 2013, 02:15:17 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6963;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6949#msg6949>
Here are the files. I am more concerned with what I don't see changing
than with what cubeit is changing.
The
15mmx15mmcube_75PS_value_cubeit_output.txt
and
15mmx15mmcube_INI File modified.txt files
are the same file.
Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6949#msg6949>
the prints came out exactly the same, and commenting out the mod in the ini
file doesn't seen to do anything to the output. I am wondering what you
think of the M227 lines on the standared BFB output I see vs the cubit
output?
See the response to bkjnky.
Quote from: bkjnky on October 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6949#msg6949>
Straight BFB file
M551 P32000 S900 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222 later in the file several times
*Cubeit Output file, with and without M55 line commented out*
M551 P1500 S150 in the header
and
M227 S2222 P2222
Edit the KS file, putting the M551 P1500 S150 line in place of M551 P32000
S900.
The former is 1500 stepper steps at 15 RPM, the latter is 32,000 stepper
steps at 90 RPM.
Leave the M227 lines alone for now. They are irrelevant to the puddling.
What is odd to me is that there are two temperature commands: M104 S230 and
M109 S230. This is redundant. M104 changes temp without waiting. M109
changes temp and waits for the target to be reached. Are both M104 and M109
in your Select Extruder G-code tab?
Nuke both of the:
M109 Snnn
lines and the second
M227 S2222 P2222
line and see if there is a change in the operation.
If this is PLA, 230 is too high, at least for the filaments I use; whether
BfB or NatureWorks. Standard for BfB is 195. NW prints well between 185 and
205. Rarely go to 215. To keep things simple during these tests, set the
First Layer Temp to the same as Material Temp. Elevated First Layer is just
complicating things. Keep It Simple. Get fancy later.
Compare my calibration slice to yours. Don't try to run it. My Z-height
setting is different from yours.
[image: *] box-halfinch-test.bfb<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2526> (4.82
kB - downloaded 8 times.)
« *Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 03:38:44 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6982#msg6982>
« *Reply #172 on:* October 29, 2013, 07:31:04 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6982;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Attempted changes recommended.
The M551 command seems to control the purge at the wiper.
Tried setting M551 P1500 S150 to M551 P27 S150 - Resulted very short purge
at wiper, same puddle at first print point.
Set temp to 200
Set M551 P1500 S150 and modified M227 S2222 P2222 to M227 S2222 P27 -
Resulted in normal purge, no puddle. Seems to have about 2mm of ooze at
nozzle as it comes across build platform. Print resulted in slight gaps in
wall on starting corner, corner 2 and corner 4
it almost acts as though there is not suck happening after the purge.
Can you take a look at the attached images of my settings, could this be
the cause of the redundant M104 commands?
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2529;image>
[image: *] deselectExtruder.PNG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2529> (13
kB, 541x272 - viewed 14 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2531;image>
[image: *] SelectExtruder.PNG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2531> (14.07
kB, 542x269 - viewed 12 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6984#msg6984>
« *Reply #173 on:* October 30, 2013, 12:19:22 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6984;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
See? Gaps is due to not enough Prime compared to Suck. Let's focus on the
Purge and leave Prime out of it, please.
There should be zero ooze after leaving the wipe box, so something is not
right. Seems like this is the start of the puddle.
Yes, the Select/Deselect tabs are wrong. There are BfB and 5D portions in
the same code. Unless there is something of a hybrid going on, where CubeX
actually needs 5D, it should be wiped out. That doesn't explain where the
M109 Snnn is coming from, though.
My Select:
Quote
; Select and warm the (new?) extruder
M<EXT+1>04 S<TEMP>
; Purge
;M542
M55<EXT+1> P57000 S600
;M543
My Deselect:
Quote
; Retract
;M542
M56<EXT+1> P9600 S900
;M543
; Cool the (same) extruder
M<EXT+1>04 S<TEMP>
(M542 and M543 lines are commented out, as they are redundant on this
hardware.)
Do you see the differences in my calibration cube slice?
Still don't have the contents of the cubeit.ini file.
« *Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 12:26:39 AM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7002#msg7002>
« *Reply #174 on:* October 30, 2013, 06:37:45 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7002;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Would it help to see what Cubex generates? It seems that the latest
version (1.07) saves a copy of the Cubex file as a bfb file when it writes
the build file. I wonder if this is an error on their part....
I've attached a really simple STL file (modified automatically by Cubex,
hence the "rebuilt" ending in the name) along with the Cubex and the BFB
files that were created by Cubex V1.07. Perhaps by looking at the code it
is possible to figure out how they handle the prime and suck routines.
[image: *] helper disk large - 22mm (rebuilt).bfb<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2555> (55.21
kB - downloaded 6 times.)
[image: *] helper disk large - 22mm (rebuilt).stl<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2556> (12
kB - downloaded 5 times.)
[image: *] helper disk large - 22mm.cubex<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2557> (55.22
kB - downloaded 4 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7015#msg7015>
« *Reply #175 on:* October 31, 2013, 05:40:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7015;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Hey guys... I've been off the grid for a while. CUBEIT will replace
any/all M55{x} command with whatever value you put in the INI file. If you
comment out the M55 command altogether, you will still get the default
value which was suggested waaaay back at the beginning of this thread. (I
did that so if someone inadvertently leaves out the INI setting altogether,
or damages their INI file, they still get the "suggested" value).
Apparently, the default bfb prime/purge command is way too long for the
cubex... Check the very earliest messages in this thread for more info...
You can change the M55x values to whatever you want in the INI file, it
will be set for all initial nozzle priming (initial purge) commands (M551,
M552, M553). Please note that this is ONLY for the initial Prime/purge of
the nozzles (to the waste bin) and should not effect any prime/suck
operations while the print is actually running. It just keeps the nozzle
from ejecting loads of material into the waste bin needlessly...
If anyone thinks this might be better handled in some other manner just let
me know!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7026#msg7026>
« *Reply #176 on:* October 31, 2013, 01:21:18 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7026;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Thanks for the clarification. That is what I've been trying to find out.
Let's keep the terminology clear, though. M55x handles *Purge*. It has
nothing to do with *Prime* at all. They are two separate functions.
Interchanging these terms by some has led to confusion and no solutions.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7027#msg7027>
« *Reply #177 on:* October 31, 2013, 01:23:10 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7027;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Is there a list with explanations for the g-code commands?
That would be awesome.
thank you.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7029#msg7029>
« *Reply #178 on:* October 31, 2013, 01:25:51 PM »
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Let me Google that for you: [image: ;)]
https://www.google.com/search?q=g-code+commands
« *Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 01:43:05 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7032#msg7032>
« *Reply #179 on:* October 31, 2013, 06:32:17 PM »
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Quote from: PenskeGuy on October 31, 2013, 01:21:18 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7026#msg7026>
Thanks for the clarification. That is what I've been trying to find out.
Let's keep the terminology clear, though. M55x handles *Purge*. It has
nothing to do with*Prime* at all. They are two separate functions.
Interchanging these terms by some has led to confusion and no solutions.
Great Scott! I have been geeking on this because I was mis-understanding
the terminology. So now that I am clear, I still seem to be getting the
nozzle ooze.
Do you think the solution is in the Purge command for this, or is it more
likely my temp? I have moved the temp down to 195 and still seem to be
getting the ooze, but upping m551 P1500 S+++ doesn't seem to help.
Update...
Settings at
M104 s185
M551 P1000 S1500
Still getting about 3mm of ooze at nozzle. I can see no difference in the
amount of ooze when M551 S150 or M551 S1500. Is there something I am
missing?
« *Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 07:29:22 PM by bkjnky* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7033#msg7033>
« *Reply #180 on:* October 31, 2013, 11:04:38 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7033;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I think the answer to the missing suck is:
^Firmware:V1.04
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:1
^MaterialLengthE1: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 200
G21
G90
M104 S200
M542
*M227 S63 P137M228 P0 S63*
M551 P1500 S150
M543
M108 S6.7
*M103*
I am not really sure why, but the M228 command has a reversed P&S as
compared to the M227 command
The M103 activates the M228 as the head moves towards the initial print
point initiating suck. [image: :o]
If anyone has ideas on this please let me know. It works, but I don't know
why...unless it's just a quirk built into the 3D*rip*S firmware...
I have attached the files in case someone else would like to test this out
on their CubeX machine to help verify the result.
Next question, if this does truly appear to be the answer, can we add this
into the post processing INI file that evanevery so excellently built?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7035#msg7035>
« *Reply #181 on:* November 01, 2013, 12:16:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7035;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on October 31, 2013, 06:32:17 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7032#msg7032>
but upping m551 P1500 S+++ doesn't seem to help.
That's because lowering it would.
Quote from: bkjnky on October 31, 2013, 06:32:17 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7032#msg7032>
Still getting about 3mm of ooze at nozzle. I can see no difference in the
amount of ooze when M551 S150 or M551 S1500. Is there something I am
missing?
Yes. Get a G-code manual. On M551, S = RPM * 10 so you're running the
extruder drive at 150 RPM!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7036#msg7036>
« *Reply #182 on:* November 01, 2013, 12:26:06 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7036;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on October 31, 2013, 11:04:38 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7033#msg7033>
I am not really sure why, but the M228 command has a reversed P&S as
compared to the M227 command
Huh? In the g-code list I have, M228 *disables* M227 and has no parameters.
Quote from: bkjnky on October 31, 2013, 11:04:38 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7033#msg7033>
The M103 activates the M228 as the head moves towards the initial print
point initiating suck.
This doesn't make any sense. M103 turns all the extruders off.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7037#msg7037>
« *Reply #183 on:* November 01, 2013, 05:16:49 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7037;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy link=topic=689.msg7035#msg7035 date
Yes. Get a G-code manual. On M551, S = RPM * 10 so you're running the
extruder drive at 150 RPM!
My point exactly. No change even when extremely different.
Changing to the 551 P/S setting only changes the the amount purged (forward
feed) at the wiper as far as I can tell. By adding the M228 with a swapped
P/S order I'm getting a reverse at the extruder, but only when there is a
M103 command in place.
« *Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 05:23:25 AM by bkjnky* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7038#msg7038>
« *Reply #184 on:* November 01, 2013, 06:15:52 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7038;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Hey guys... I thought we cleared this up? The M55x commands (M551, M552,
M553) are not used to prime the nozzles during the print, they are just
used to purge the nozzles (to the waste bin) BEFORE the print starts. If
you guys are tinkering with the M55x settings in hope that it will change
how your extruders lay down material then I think you're wasting your
time... You can confirm this by noticing that the M55x commands only
appear at the very start of the print file - not during the print process.
If anyone sees/knows anything different, please let us know.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7039#msg7039>
« *Reply #185 on:* November 01, 2013, 06:29:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7039;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I'll also be quite happy to update the CUBEIT code if we need to swap or
modify the M227/228 commands (or tweak any other parameters as required).
However, I would suggest comparing the results of print files both with and
without MANUAL modifications (edits) before we choose to implement an
automatic tweak via CUBEIT. That way we can be sure the tweaks are valid
before they are automated. We obviously also need to be able to understand
and describe specifically how a command (or set of commands) needs to be
tweaked so it can be applied programmatically.
Standing by for suggestions...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7040#msg7040>
« *Reply #186 on:* November 01, 2013, 09:26:53 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7040;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Hey guys, this is a bit off topic, but it is news for CubeX owners. A new
modeler from 3DSystems, called Cubify Design, has been released and it
being marketed as the next step up from Cubify Invent on their web site.
This is a lie. Everyone should know up front that Cubify Design will NOT
import files you've previously created with Cubify Invent. Seriously.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7041#msg7041>
« *Reply #187 on:* November 01, 2013, 12:59:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7041;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on November 01, 2013, 06:29:31 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7039#msg7039>
I'll also be quite happy to update the CUBEIT code if we need to swap or
modify the M227/228 commands (or tweak any other parameters as required).
So what is M228, if not Disable M227?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7042#msg7042>
« *Reply #188 on:* November 01, 2013, 01:03:16 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7042;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I have no idea...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7043#msg7043>
« *Reply #189 on:* November 01, 2013, 01:13:54 PM »
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Quote from: bkjnky on November 01, 2013, 05:16:49 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7037#msg7037>
My point exactly. No change even when extremely different.
Well, my point is that 90 RPM on a 3DT lead screw drive is pretty darn
fast. The difference in throughput on a CubeX is significantly greater, due
to the difference between the pitch of the lead screw per turn on a 3DT and
the circumference of the CubeX hobbed wheel on a CubeX. There is probably a
maximum limit to the RPM setting and 150 is way over it, so no change. If
the Gain is set at 0.0225 for a CubeX, and remains at 1.0 for a 3DT, you
can see what I'm talking about as to difference in measurements.
Quote from: bkjnky on November 01, 2013, 05:16:49 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7037#msg7037>
Changing to the 551 P/S setting only changes the the amount purged (forward
feed) at the wiper as far as I can tell.
Correct.
Quote from: bkjnky on November 01, 2013, 05:16:49 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7037#msg7037>
By adding the M228 with a swapped P/S order I'm getting a reverse at the
extruder, but only when there is a M103 command in place.
Wait... you *added* M228? From where?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7044#msg7044>
« *Reply #190 on:* November 01, 2013, 01:14:34 PM »
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Quote from: evanevery on November 01, 2013, 01:03:16 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7042#msg7042>
I have no idea...
Ok, good. I thought I was losin' it.
The only commands that I know reverse the drive are Mx02, M56x and (for
automatic destring) M227 (but those are limits, not commands to do
so--commands to destring according to those limits are triggered by
M103/M101.
« *Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 01:21:46 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7055#msg7055>
« *Reply #191 on:* November 03, 2013, 05:33:28 PM »
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Quote from: PenskeGuy on November 01, 2013, 01:13:54 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7043#msg7043>
Wait... you *added* M228? *From where*?
He may have used a "text editor".
I'll google it for you [image: ;)]
https://www.google.com/#q=text+editor
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7060#msg7060>
« *Reply #192 on:* November 03, 2013, 06:53:40 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7060;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I know full well how to edit a G-code file and what applications to use to
do it. [image: :o] And, I didn't say "how?" I said "from where?". What I
mean is: "Where did the M228 Pxx Sxx command come from in the FIRST place
that got edited in?" BECAUSE, M228 has no P/S parameters that I know of and
only disables M227 if it is input.
« *Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 06:59:47 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7073#msg7073>
« *Reply #193 on:* November 04, 2013, 06:33:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7073;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
If you look at the output of Cubex Slicer, every "extruder select" routine
includes the following code:
M104 S250 P1
M542
M104 S250
M551 P284 S80.000
M227 P284 S300
M228 P0 S284
M543
M108 S25
M103
Notice that M227 is followed by M228 and M228 has a P and S parameter. My
research so far agrees with yours that M228 doesn't normally have
parameters and seems counterintuitive. Bkjnky shows and discusses all of
this in post #180.
So the question becomes "what do the Cubex Slicer programmers know about
the Cubex that we don't know?"
The question for us is "how does this code work with the machine?" and "Do
we need to modify the output of Kisslicer/Cubeit?"
I know that Bkjnky is working on this now. I'm sure others are too. I
will be working on it as soon as I can get back to my machine.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7074#msg7074>
« *Reply #194 on:* November 04, 2013, 07:28:06 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7074;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
No, the real question (rhetorical) is: "What do the CubeX Slicer
programmers know about anything?" I mean, just look at the number of
complaints about crappy prints.
As evidenced by looking at that code block, it's garbage.
- M104 S250 P1 - set extruder 1 temp (no idea what P1 is there for)
- M542 - enter the wipe box
- M104 S250 - set extruder 1 temp again (because we Borked it the first
time)
- M551 P284 S80.000 - Prime extruder 284 steps @ 8 RPM
- M227 P284 S300 - set Prime and Suck values (after the Prime already
happened) P & S are reversed
- M228 P0 S284 - disable M227 P/S value settings (why?) no idea what P &
S are there for
- M543 - exit the wipe box
- M108 S25 - set extruder 1 to 2.5 RPM
- M103 - turn all extruders off
Are ya kiddin' me!? Now, granted, with their screwed up mindset of
proprietary everything, the firmware has a very good probability of being
so screwed around that it will take reverse engineering to learn what they
are doing with non-standard codes. Heck, there are plenty of numbers
unused. Assign something to them, instead of messing with ones that are
standard. Of course, that would be logical.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7100#msg7100>
« *Reply #195 on:* November 07, 2013, 05:52:45 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7100;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Ok so I am going down another road now. I've ordered new arduino board,
ramps and LCD. I like the chassis, but I'm tired of all this proprietary
garbage...new guts, new problems, but at least I can modify to correct
without having to guess at cause and effect
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7104#msg7104>
« *Reply #196 on:* November 08, 2013, 01:39:34 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7104;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
A better plan. I've long been considering replacing the board on my 3DT
after this Big Job has been completed. The 3DT is quite a more capable and
workable machine than the CubeX, from which the latter sprang, but there is
still room for improvement.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7140#msg7140>
« *Reply #197 on:* November 13, 2013, 10:34:24 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7140;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
CubeX fully disassembled. Waiting on new PSU. Arduino,shield and ramps
1.4 ready to go. Thinking marlin firmware due to need for setting E1 to
power 2nd Y axis stepper...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7144#msg7144>
« *Reply #198 on:* November 14, 2013, 10:43:40 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7144;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
Let me know how this goes, I just fully disassembled mine thinking about
reverse engineering some of the feed counter stuff but at this point I
think I might just prefer new guts.
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Prime, Suck, and Puddles<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7162#msg7162>
« *Reply #199 on:* November 15, 2013, 09:57:07 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7162;topic=689.150;last_msg=13088>
I found a solution to the Prime, suck, and puddles issue.
Put the M227 line in front of M551.
M104 S230
M542
M227 S1481 P2963
M551 P600 S80.000
M543
M106
M108 S8.4
G1 X-36.73 Y-11.47 Z1 F12000
G1 X-36.73 Y-11.47 Z0.75 F210
M101
You can now put in any value you want for Prime and Suck and you will not
get a puddle at the beginning of the print. The example above is a prime
of 1 and a Suck of .5.
Why does this work?
Near the beginning of this thread someone posted a set of .ini files to
help cubex users get started (I'm sorry I don't remember who that was).
Those files had a prime of .05 and a suck of I think 1 (can't remember -
doesn't matter). People like me were too busy learning all this new stuff
to notice or worry about it yet. One day it came up and Penske pointed out
that a prime of .05 was really low compared to what most people are
running. So I (and others) tried a larger value like 1 and we got a large
puddle at the beginning of the print. Back to .05. Penske pointed out
(correctly) that this was really just a work around for a larger problem.
And it was not a very good work around because it really limits
flexibility. Unfortunately I was out of town then this came up and was not
able to work on it.
After about 2 dozen little test cubes I figured out what the machine is
doing. I make no assumptions as to why. This is just what I observed.
If you look at the output from Cubex Slicer they actually have the same
problem. However they start the first path of the first layer outside of
the part. This is an example of "what do they know that I don't know".
M227 Sxxx Pyyy sets suck and prime. M101 turn on the extruder and executes
the set amount of prime.
As the Cubex executes the G-code it sees the M227 and reads the values.
When it gets to the M101 it does NOT prime by the amount specified. It
primes by amount times 10! I don't know the exact number but it looks like
the puddle is about 10 times the size that it should be. Lets call this a
"super prime". This only happens on the first M101 following a new M227.
From now on M101 will prime the proper amount. This is why the problem
only occurs on the first layer and not the rest.
M103 and suck do not appear to have this feature/characteristic/bug.
If the value of M227 changes then the next M101 will execute another "super
prime".
Since this feature is not going away then lets at least move the super
prime away from the print. How about the waste bucket?
First I tried
M542
M551 P600 S80.000
M227 S1481 P2963
M101
M103
M543
Worked like a charm. The machine executes a super prime into the waste
bucket then prints normally.
Then it occured to me that M551 turns on the extruder. Maybe we can use
that to trigger the super prime. Worked like a charm with less code.
Sorry for the long post.
Hope this helps.
Bob
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg6890#msg6890>
« *Reply #149 on:* October 20, 2013, 04:12:07 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6890;topic=689.100;last_msg=13088>
We are definitely seeing our Z-gap change as you had mentioned earlier in
this thread. We do have a bracket designed that will attach to the bed and
nudge a digital dial gauge so we can see where / if the Z-gap changes.
Fighting with ABS to get it printed square however.
I am also trying to find a good place to meter the reed switch, I have very
little faith in the accuracy of those switches. We also did design a
bracket for the back pedestal (for those with an aftermarket heated bed on
a Cubex) along with a nylon machine screw that will keep your magnet from
shifting. If anyone wants the .stl let me know.
As for ABS warping I have a few questions:
1) Already bugged 1looooooopy1 over email, he recommends the Kapton + ABS
slurry.
2) What ambient temperature should you be at? Does it matter? I am also
thinking of enclosing the Duo. We live in Canada, but not in an igloo. [image:
:)]
3) Does setting a 360 jitter change the warp? It's a theory of mine that
not starting in the same position each layer will help, as we noticed the
most significant warp was on the starting corner of our bracket.
4) Does *anyone* use a non-adhesive solution to warping?
CUBEX Bed stl<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7163#msg7163>
« *Reply #200 on:* November 15, 2013, 10:39:58 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7163;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I don't remember seeing this posted before. Sorry if it is a duplicate.
Attached are stl models of the cubex bed. I have included lines to
indicate the zones for each extruder. The lines shown are not "calibrated"
so please use them as a "loose" guide only.
Someone else already pointed out that the cubex table is off center from
Kisslicer. In their case the table is -35mm off in X. My table is off by
-25.26mm. This means the stl needs to be offset by the same amount.
Solidworks defaults to outputting an stl in positive space. In solidworks
to make the stl come out correctly you need to click options -> and check
"Do not translate stl output to positive space.
[image: *] Cubex Build Table No Offset.STL<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2608> (340.9
kB - downloaded 7 times.)
[image: *] Cubex Build Table -35.STL<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2609> (340.9
kB - downloaded 8 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7164#msg7164>
« *Reply #201 on:* November 15, 2013, 11:13:02 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7164;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
<----Please excuse the noob still trying to get his head around all this
stuff.
Would enabling the prime pillar help with the puddling? I realize you can
correct it by changing the code but I'm just curious if enabling prime
pillar would be an effective work-around as well. Thanks.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7165#msg7165>
« *Reply #202 on:* November 15, 2013, 11:24:03 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7165;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Placebo,
Excellent idea. I had not gotten around to trying out the prime piller.
Yes that will accomplish the same thing.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7166#msg7166>
« *Reply #203 on:* November 15, 2013, 11:35:39 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7166;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Thanks for the feedback bsmith. It's reassuring to know that I'm starting
to understand some of this stuff. Also thanks for pointing out the bed
offset, I hadn't noticed that until I read your post. Mine was also off by
-35mm X.
Boy I sure do suck at the anti-spam captcha's....
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Re: Prime, Suck, and Puddles<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7167#msg7167>
« *Reply #204 on:* November 15, 2013, 02:50:26 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7167;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on November 15, 2013, 09:57:07 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7162#msg7162>
If you look at the output from Cubex Slicer they actually have the same
problem. However they start the first path of the first layer outside of
the part. This is an example of "what do they know that I don't know".
Just some random extrusion on the way to the first layer start point or
something similar to a skirt?
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on November 15, 2013, 09:57:07 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7162#msg7162>
First I tried
M542
M551 P600 S80.000
M227 S1481 P2963
M101
M103
M543
Worked like a charm. The machine executes a super prime into the waste
bucket then prints normally.
Then it occured to me that M551 turns on the extruder. Maybe we can use
that to trigger the super prime. Worked like a charm with less code.
That has the "Ring of Truth". All the rest prior did not. Good goin'.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7168#msg7168>
« *Reply #205 on:* November 15, 2013, 03:50:59 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7168;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Not a skirt. Cubex slicer (CS) picks some point (there is probably some
formula behind it) maybe 10mm away from the start point if the print.
Executes a "super prime" and prints a single straight line to the start
point of the print. After the print is finished there is this thread to
trim off. It only does this once regardless of which materials were used
during the print.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7169#msg7169>
« *Reply #206 on:* November 15, 2013, 04:06:04 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7169;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Ok, that's what I figured. They print a default skirt function. It just
doesn't go all the way around the part. Looks from your analysis that it
can't be turned off; not that it is necessarily a bad thing, now that
you've developed a method to control it.
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Cubex Cartridges<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7170#msg7170>
« *Reply #207 on:* November 15, 2013, 05:27:31 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7170;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I don't remember seeing this posted before. Sorry if it is a duplicate.
You can run a Cubex Trio, firmware version 1.07(current) WITHOUT CARTRIDGES
by removing the Material declarations from the header.
The only header line required to load and run a program is the Firmware
line.
I have not figured out yet what if anything the DRM line does.
^Firmware:V1.07
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:7
^MaterialLength: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 200
^MaterialCodeE2: 208
^MaterialCodeE3: 255
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7176#msg7176>
« *Reply #208 on:* November 17, 2013, 07:32:28 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7176;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
A CubeX trio can print a .bfb (kisslicer) file (after CubeIt conversion),
with jet 3 without cartridge installed in bay 3. You still assign jet 3 and
color/filament type, but it prints ignoring if there is a cartridge in bay
3 or not. Seems to work only on jet 3 and only with .bfb file. Running
firmware version 1.07 or earlier.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7177#msg7177>
« *Reply #209 on:* November 17, 2013, 08:40:56 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7177;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
This is all really good news. I've been out of town for about a week. I
will be back late this next week. If you guys can lock down the necessary
logic updates to the BFB print files, I wll do my best to incorporate them
into the CubeIT code when I get back!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7223#msg7223>
« *Reply #210 on:* November 21, 2013, 09:37:56 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7223;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I have seen some slicing problems in some models and wondered if those are
software limitations or else?
The first example is the mask, where one surface printed all rough. You
could hear the print carriage go a little erratic when moving thru that
area. When I zoomed into the sliced model, you could see that the inner
loop is squiggly and not straight. The part was printed with 3 loops, but
when I set to 2 loops it still shows issue. The same surface on the
opposite side of the mask is smooth and the slicing shows smooth.
Attached are pictures of right (good) and left (bad) side of mask and a
slicing screen shot of right and left side. Attaching the .stl file in the
next post.
Also, for some other odd reason, the mask part finished and it thought it
was done when only 66.25mm into the print of the 150mm. ?? The printfile
had the code up to 150mm in it. ??
The other example is the vader head with a slice screen shot at the eye
area where the eye outline is all crazy.
Any thoughts?
thank you.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2638;image>
[image: *] mask left side.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2638> (502.21
kB, 1197x833 - viewed 22 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2640;image>
[image: *] mask right side.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2640> (583.61
kB, 1173x875 - viewed 22 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2642;image>
[image: *] mask left -bad.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2642> (390.66
kB, 1683x1029 - viewed 16 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2644;image>
[image: *] mask right -good.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2644> (234.04
kB, 1688x1036 - viewed 12 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2646;image>
[image: *] darth vader 2.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2646> (426.78
kB, 1686x1054 - viewed 15 times.)
« *Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 09:43:59 PM by 1looooopy1* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7224#msg7224>
« *Reply #211 on:* November 21, 2013, 09:39:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7224;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
This goes to prior post.
Mask .stl file attached.
[image: *] mask_clipped.stl<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2648> (97.8
kB - downloaded 10 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7227#msg7227>
« *Reply #212 on:* November 22, 2013, 06:58:05 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7227;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I am still fighting some issues with printing via kisslicer. I don't think
they are problems with the utility, but rather a settings issue. I have
been out of town for a couple of weeks so have not had a chance to continue
my testing. I do think one of the issues I am seeing may be due to using
the default kisslicer prime/suck settings (.05/1 if i remember correctly).
My last print (20% fill) had virtually no internal structure (narrow width)
as I think the imbalanced suck operations were starving the print head. I
know we've had some discussion about this and I will be testing 0.75/0.75
when I get a chance...
It would REALLY be great if we (as a community) could all be working with
the same baseline kisslicer settings as we move forward. Perhaps a
comprehensive running list of settings that we can all use as a reference.
I would expect a single baseline should suffice for everyone. It sounds
like we are not there yet. Screen shots are complete but are rather
tedious to process. We could also exchange INI files, but then that would
lead to a lot of searching and comparisons to see if anything had actually
changed or evolved. A table of parameters would be better to use as a
common reference as we would have immediate textual display of the info we
are looking for. Personally, I think a standardized table which included
all settings for both PLA and ABS would be helpful. I'm still getting
caught up on a bunch of stuff, but I will try to post something as a
starting point as I find time to get the info together...
Where are we on the cartridge dependencies? If we pull the material
settings out of the header of the BFB file can we run with whatever
filament we want? Has anyone tested or confirmed this? I'm tired of
buying overpriced filament and then continually having to crack open the
cartridges to try and unbind the filament as it continually locks up, kills
my print, and wastes my time. It would be easy enough for me to remove any
material dependencies from the CubeIt code if this truly is a working
solution moving forward. There would also be some additional logic and
interface changes to CubeIt, but the first step is to confirm that this is
truly a workable solution. The header in the CubeIT output BFB file can
easily be edited with a text editor to check if this is workable. Again,
as I have time I can test this, but I am curious if our community has
already confirmed this to be a workable solution...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7228#msg7228>
« *Reply #213 on:* November 22, 2013, 07:20:26 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7228;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Loopy,
Can you post your settings? I just tried your mask_clipped.stl with the
settings visible in your jpgs and of course it sliced fine for me. When I
review the path's the perimeters appear symmetric on both sides. If you
want to post (or PM) your .ini files I will duplicate your setup this
weekend and look at it.
Bob
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7229#msg7229>
« *Reply #214 on:* November 22, 2013, 07:22:10 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7229;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on November 22, 2013, 06:58:05 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7227#msg7227>
I'm tired of buying overpriced filament and then continually having to
crack open the cartridges to try and unbind the filament as it continually
locks up, kills my print, and wastes my time.
X2. I just opened a brand new ABS yellow and got a filament flow error
within 30 minutes of my first print. Cracked the case so I could run it on
the filament spool holder I printed but that didn't work cause the
cardboard spool came apart where it is glued at the core. I wish I could
say this is the first time this has happened but sadly it has happened way
too many times. Going forward I will NOT be buying anymore of the horribly
designed crappy cartridges. I will downgrade firmware to 1.04 if that is
what I need to do to be free of that frustration.
I'm on board for collaborating settings used on the cubex. I'm admittedly
way behind most of you here so I have just been using what others have
already posted. Like the ones in this post by printman on the google groups
board:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/cubex-3d-printing/4bkFDsqsINg
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7230#msg7230>
« *Reply #215 on:* November 22, 2013, 07:45:26 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7230;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Evan,
I'm probably going to regret saying this out loud, but right now my Cubex
Trio / Kisslicer is running great! I am getting decent and consistent
results. CAVEAT! I am not printing as big and complex models as other
people are. I think I am down to working out Temperature, Flow tweak,
moisture, and to a lesser extent prime and suck.
Right now I am using Prime=0.2 and Suck=0.1. My machine seems to like a
ratio of about 2:1. It works, its consistant (for both pla and abs) but
not perfect yet.
I am working on sending you some emails this weekend with basically some
info should you decide to update CubeIt.
I am running ABS without cartridges now because of jamming issues.
I would also like to hear if anyone else has tried removing the material
statements and run without cartridges.
Bob
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7231#msg7231>
« *Reply #216 on:* November 22, 2013, 08:07:03 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7231;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
So, you're saying that you can confirm that you can run Kisslicer BFB print
files through CubeIt, manually remove the material codes in the resulting
header, and then print with whatever filament you want? Firmware v1.07?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7232#msg7232>
« *Reply #217 on:* November 22, 2013, 08:46:15 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7232;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Yes. That's what I was trying to say in post #207 but I may not have said
it very well.
You can test this easily.
Generate a program and edit out all of the material statements.
Pull out all of the cartridges loaded on the machine about an inch. They
are still resting in the slots, just not on the contacts.
Now check the cartridge info. All three slots should show "cartridge not
found".
Run your program
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7233#msg7233>
« *Reply #218 on:* November 22, 2013, 09:37:30 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7233;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
That's really great! This will change much of the logic in CubeIt
(simplify it greatly). This means CubeIT will not have to track material
info at all. I will consider the specifics as time becomes available.
Although I now have quite an investment of CubeX cartridges, at least this
would give us the option of manually unwinding and respooling the CubeX
filament onto generic spools which actually rotate and feed properly...
Hopefully the printing process will then become less hit and miss wrt to
filament jams!
Woo Hoo!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7234#msg7234>
« *Reply #219 on:* November 22, 2013, 10:06:18 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7234;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I would like to submit a standard listing of parameters for the CubeX
STYLES, MATERIALS, and PRINTER Info. The values in the list below are what
I currently have for my system. I am NOT claiming that any/all of these
are the optimum baseline for our systems, but I would like to see if we can
first agree that this is an acceptable list of parameters for us to work
with.
If we can get some consensus that this text format is reasonable (easily
read and applied to the software), all salient CubeX specific
characteristics are covered, and that there is not TOO much data to dilute
the important details (do we need STYLES?), maybe then we can work toward
addressing the actual settings in this list.
The end game here would be a nice concise list of settings that would
ultimately become a well established baseline for the CubeX printer and its
associated materials (both ABS and PLA). Easily Read, Discussed, and
Applied without having to jump between someones INI files, anothers screen
shots, and someone elses text listings. (No offense intended to anyone
participating in this discussion - just trying to expedite some common
ground for further discussion...)
Here is my starting point. (I specified "Courier" for the "Font Face" used
below as it will provide a fixed pitch font for easy column alignment).
Comments are appreciated:
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STYLE: CubeX - Solid Infill - 0.25 Layer
--------------------------------------
Skin Thickness: 1
Number of Loops: 1
Stacked Sparse Infill: 1
Inset Surface: 0
Infill%: 100
Infill Style: N/A
Extrusion Width: 0.5
Infill Extrusion Width: 0.5
Layer Thickness: 0.25
Loops go from Inside: Disable
Wipe: Enable
De-String: Enable
Seam Hiding: 1.0
Jitter: 0
STYLE: CubeX - 20% Infill - 0.25 Layer
--------------------------------------
Skin Thickness: 1
Number of Loops: 2
Stacked Sparse Infill: 1
Inset Surface: 0
Infill%: 20
Infill Style: Rounded
Extrusion Width: 0.5
Infill Extrusion Width: 0.5
Layer Thickness: 0.25
Loops go from Inside: Disable
Wipe: Enable
De-String: Enable
Seam Hiding: 1.0
Jitter: 0
STYLE: CubeX - Solid Infill - 0.10 Layer
--------------------------------------
Skin Thickness: 1
Number of Loops: 1
Stacked Sparse Infill: 1
Inset Surface: 0
Infill%: 100
Infill Style: N/A
Extrusion Width: 0.38
Infill Extrusion Width: 0.38
Layer Thickness: 0.1
Loops go from Inside: Disable
Wipe: Enable
De-String: Enable
Seam Hiding: 1.0
Jitter: 0
STYLE: CubeX - 20% Infill - 0.10 Layer
--------------------------------------
Skin Thickness: 1
Number of Loops: 2
Stacked Sparse Infill: 1
Inset Surface: 0
Infill%: 20
Infill Style: Rounded
Extrusion Width: 0.38
Infill Extrusion Width: 0.38
Layer Thickness: 0.1
Loops go from Inside: Disable
Wipe: Enable
De-String: Enable
Seam Hiding: 1.0
Jitter: 0
--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
Material: CubeX ABS
--------------------------------------
Diameter: 1.7
Temp
Main: 255
1st Layer: 265
Keep-Warm: 150
Bed: 0
DeString
Prime: .75
Suck: .75
Wipe: 10
Speed: 15
Min Jump: 1
Trigger: 100
Fan/Cool
Loops: 100
Inside: 0
Cool: 100
Fan Z: 0
Min Layer: 10
Flow Adjust
Flow Tweak: 1.1
Min: 0.01
Max: 10
Misc
Z-Lift: 0
Warm Time: 0
$/CM3: 0
Material: CubeX PLA
--------------------------------------
Diameter: 1.7
Temp
Main: 195
1st Layer: 210
Keep-Warm: 150
Bed: 0
DeString
Prime: .75
Suck: .75
Wipe: 10
Speed: 15
Min Jump: 1
Trigger: 100
Fan/Cool
Loops: 100
Inside: 0
Cool: 100
Fan Z: 0
Min Layer: 10
Flow Adjust
Flow Tweak: 1.1
Min: 0.01
Max: 10
Misc
Z-Lift: 0
Warm Time: 0
$/CM3: 0
--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
Printer: CubeX
--------------------------------------
Hardware
Extruders: {1/2/3 As Appropriate}
InFill Overlap: 0.50
Bed Size: 275 x 265 x 240
$/Hour: 0
Bed Center X: 0
Bed Center Y: 0
Bed Roughness: 0
Z-Settle: 0.25
Z-Offset: 0
Bed STL Model: {none}
Firmware
Firmware Type: Bits From Bytes Printers
File Extension: bfb
Mark Path: None
Include Comments: Enable
Fan On: M106
Fan Off: M107
Fan PWM: Enable
Post-Process: CUBEIT.EXE "<FILE>" {material ID Nozzle
1},{material ID Nozzle 2},{Material ID Nozzle 3}
Extruders
Each Extruder
Material: {PLA / ABS As Appropriate}
Gain: 0.0225
Axis: E
Extruder Mapping: {As Appropriate}
Speed
Fast
Perimeter: 20
Solid Infill: 30
Sparse Infill: 30
Precise
Perimeter: 10
Solid Infill: 15
Sparse Infill: 30
XY Travel Speed: 200
Z Speed: 3.5
1st Layer Max Speed: 15
Limit Increase: 50
XY Accel: 1500
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7237#msg7237>
« *Reply #220 on:* November 22, 2013, 11:45:56 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7237;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Would it be helpful if we all used the same test part to print with various
settings.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7238#msg7238>
« *Reply #221 on:* November 22, 2013, 12:16:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7238;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I can also confirm that removing the material statements works. The only
statement I leave in is the firmware one. The rest I edit out just using
Notepad. It works great without any cartridges installed (all three bays
work this way on the Treo) and I think this is really a game changer.
This is on V1.04, but I believe it also works on V1.07 (from a previous
post here).
I am still having some challenges with support structures and blobs
building up on them. Eventually one of the unused printer tips knocks off
the supports when they get high enough in the build structure. this may be
related to the prime/suck function. It is still not perfect.....
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7243#msg7243>
« *Reply #222 on:* November 22, 2013, 03:18:22 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7243;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: WarrenE on November 22, 2013, 12:16:23 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7238#msg7238>
I can also confirm that removing the material statements works. The only
statement I leave in is the firmware one. The rest I edit out just using
Notepad. It works great without any cartridges installed (all three bays
work this way on the Treo) and I think this is really a game changer.
This is on V1.04, but I believe it also works on V1.07 (from a previous
post here).
I am still having some challenges with support structures and blobs
building up on them. Eventually one of the unused printer tips knocks off
the supports when they get high enough in the build structure. this may be
related to the prime/suck function. It is still not perfect.....
Can someone please post an example of what needs to be removed in regards
to material statements?
Would it be this?:
material_name = PLA - CubeX
; g_code_matl = 3B204D617962652073657420736F6D65206D6174657269
; 616C2D737065636966696320472D636F64653F
Thanks.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7244#msg7244>
« *Reply #223 on:* November 22, 2013, 04:04:27 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7244;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
As an example from the start of an original BFB file loaded into Notepad:
^Firmware:V1.07
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:1
^MaterialLengthE1: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 200
G21
G90
M104 S230
M542
M551 P1500 S150
M543
T0
M109 S230
M227 S2963 P148
M108 S36.3
Delete the following:
^Checksum: NO
^DRM:00000000
^Time:1
^MaterialLengthE1: 1
^MaterialCodeE1: 200
You then save the file, and print....
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7245#msg7245>
« *Reply #224 on:* November 22, 2013, 04:10:08 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7245;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Thank you Warren!!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7250#msg7250>
« *Reply #225 on:* November 23, 2013, 02:43:28 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7250;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Another confirmation. Firmware 1.07 No cartridges installed. Delete
material lines using notepad, Save. No problem printing!!!! [image: :)]
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7251#msg7251>
« *Reply #226 on:* November 23, 2013, 03:25:44 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7251;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Dontcha just love it when an elegant workaround is found that defeats the
complex blocks that companies like they try to put up in order to force you
into their business model? No doubt, once this leaks out, there will be
forthcoming firmware "upgrades" that have new features that everyone wants
but defeats this simple loophole; which it the actual intention.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7253#msg7253>
« *Reply #227 on:* November 24, 2013, 09:47:13 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7253;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
This is great. Not only does KISSLICER make better prints, it also enables
a complete bypass of the proprietary cartridge problem!
I'm working some test prints now and have confirmed the "puddle" issue when
the default prime and suck have changed. I have also confirmed the ability
to move the M227 GCODE command to a location just before the initial purge
command over the waste bucket. Obviously, I will work this into the next
version of CubeIt. Considering the ability to use multiple nozzles in a
print (can't use a nozzle specific command as a place finder), and the
associated logic implement this change, I think the best way to describe
the modification (as would be implemented in code or by hand) is as follows:
- Simply find the first (and hopefully only) M227 command in the BFB file,
and relocate/move it to just after the "Enter Wipe Area" command (M542) at
the top of the file.
I believe the above is the simplest way to describe (and implement) the
change. Any objections? Additionally, the default PURGE command we
override in the CubeIt.ini file ("M55=") may need to be reduced by a factor
of 10 to minimize waste if that is the appropriate multiplier. This should
not effect the print quality (or program logic) though, so we can worry
about that later.
So, here is my list of updates which need to be worked into CubeIt:
1. Eliminate Material Codes and Dependencies from Print File Header and
Program Logic
2. Relocate the M227 (Prime/Suck Spec) to just before the initial purge
command (M55X)
Anyone have any other suggestions?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7255#msg7255>
« *Reply #228 on:* November 25, 2013, 12:37:47 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7255;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
OK - Here we go... *I have attached an updated version of CubeIt.* Please
read all of the following info before you deploy the new version. We are
attempting to do as much as possible with KISSLICER and ONLY do stuff with
CubeIt if it can NOT be accomplished within KISSLICER. (No need to
reinvent the wheel..)
*** I have included my Materials, Styles, Printers, and Supports INI's in
this distro. Please be careful not to unpack the archive on top of your
existing files if you do not want to replace them! Extracting to a temp
folder (and then moving the files) is recommended. I'm not done tweaking
all the associated settings in these files, but the required changes are
already implemented in them.
Removing the material dependencies and logic from the original CubeIt file
has simplified the code greatly. *This also allows us to use KISSLICER to
generate unencrypted CubeX bfb print files which bypass the requirement to
use expensive and problematic proprietary filament cartridges! (Even with
Firmware v1.07!)* With the beneficial removal of any material and nozzle
dependencies, there really is no longer any need for a CubeIt user
interface. The latest version is simply used as a KISSLICER Post Processor
(it is called from within KISSLICER).
*For those that have been following along:* The only real work left for
CubeIt is to relocate the Prime/Suck settings (M227) to run immediately
before the associated nozzle purges (M55x) are done to the waste bin.
(This needs to be done to prevent the "Puddle" issue seen by folks when
modifying the default Suck/Prime setting in KISSLICER - you can find more
info about this behavior a couple of messages back in this thread). CubeIt
simply watches for any M542 (move to waste bin) commands, then does a quick
look ahead to find the next associated M227 command and moves it up to just
after the M542 command (and before the upcoming M55x command). We can do
the required CubeX header prepend directly from KISSLICER (PREFIX) rather
than using CubeIt. (All we need, and all we *want*, to prepend is the
"^Firmware" setting). Similarly, we can append any optional cleanup code
from KISSLICER as well (POSTFIX). CubeIt still cleans out any blank lines
and comments as required - so feel free to leave them enabled for
troubleshooting if you want to look back at the original print file (*.bak).
*In order to use KISSLICER and CUBEIT, please do the following:*
* Copy the CUBEIT.EXE and CUBEIT.INI file from the attached archive into
your KISSLICER program directory.
(The CUBEIT.INI file is actually optional but allows you to override and/or
augment some of the KISSLICER behavior. I don't recommend using the INI
settings unless you know exactly what you are doing (the file is not even
required). Its not a requirement for the operation of the program...)
You can use the _PRINTERS.INI file in the attached archive to get started.
(Note that I have only 2 Extruders in my CubeX). If you wish to update
your settings by hand, here are the salient (CubeX specific) settings as
made through the KISSLICER user interface. I like to leave the comments
and spaces in place as CubeIt will clean them up anyway. It can make
reading the original source file (*.bak) a little easier. Anyway:
* Enable the CUBEIT post-processor in KISSLICER by adding the following
command to the PRINTER -> FIRMWARE -> Post-Process Field:
CUBEIT.EXE "<FILE>"
* Set PRINTER -> FIRMWARE -> FIRMWARE TYPE: Bits From Bytes Printers
* Set PRINTER -> FIRMWARE -> FILE EXTENSION: bfb
* Set PTR G-CODE -> PREFIX: (Add the proprietary CubeX "^Firmware" setting)
*^Firmware:V1.07*
; [mm] mode
G21
; absolute mode
G90
* Set PTR G-CODE -> SELECT EXTRUDER: (Set Purge cmd (M55x) to "P600 S80"
and optionally delete unused "5D style" commands)
; Select extruder, warm, purge
; BfB-style
M<EXT+1>04 S<TEMP>
M542
M55<EXT+1> *P600 S80*
M543
* Set PTR G-CODE -> DESELECT EXTRUDER: (Optional: Delete unused "5D Style"
Commands)
; Guaranteed same extruder, cooling down
; BfB-style
M<EXT+1>04 S<TEMP>
* Set PTR G-CODE -> POSTFIX: (Optional: It was suggested to turn off all
extruders and cool them down - ala CubeX native operation)
*M103 M104 S0 M204 S0 M304 S0*
As you save your print file (*.bfb) from KISSLICER, CubeIt will
automatically run to post-process it. The original KISSLICER output file
will be saved as "*.bfb.bak" and you can copy the resulting "*.bfb" file
directly to your USB key, put it in the printer, select your file, and
print away! (You DO NOT want to rename the *.bfb file to *.cubex!)
I have not had a chance to run extensive testing on this latest version and
will be out of town for the Thanksgiving holiday (not checking email or the
forum). But I wanted to get this out before I left... I have run several
comparisons on the output and it looks like everything is working just
fine. However, if anyone notes any issues (particularly with the
"M542/M227" Logic), or has any additional suggestions for post processing,
please leave a note on the forum and I'll address them when I get back next
week!
Thanks to all the hard work and research folks have been doing and all the
feedback and info which is being supplied. Lets keep communication flowing
as we move forward with a much better (and non-proprietary) slicing
solution for our printers. Figuring out what needs to be done is the
tricky part but I think we are already in a really good place! I'll be
happy to keep updating and enhancing CubeIt as we move forward.
Maybe now we can spend more time actually printing instead of untangling
jammed printer cartridges and throwing away all those half-printed
objects. Save your money, save your time, save your plastic, and get much
better prints while doing it!
Have fun!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7256#msg7256>
« *Reply #229 on:* November 25, 2013, 02:23:16 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7256;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Good job.
One suggestion for clarity. The *"...optionally delete unused "5D style"
commands."* in Select and Deselect might be better written to avoid
misunderstanding. Yes, it is an "option" in the sense that not everyone
will have to deal with them. People who hit the G-code Defaults button
after having selected their BfB Firmware type and chose "Overwrite" will
not have 5D codes inserted. But, it is not an "option" to take them out. If
any 5D codes are there, they should be removed, because they will just
screw things up.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7257#msg7257>
« *Reply #230 on:* November 25, 2013, 02:34:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7257;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I've never "deselected" them (5D Style codes). They were always in my
print files. They didn't appear to cause any issues. It just appears they
are ignored. Is that NOT the case? What, specifically, are they for?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7258#msg7258>
« *Reply #231 on:* November 25, 2013, 04:20:01 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7258;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I just gave it a go made all the changes listed. I did not copy the other
files over( printer, material, ect). I went to print, my extruder never
went to the purge box and heated up, it went right to print. What did I do
wrong?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7259#msg7259>
« *Reply #232 on:* November 25, 2013, 04:36:55 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7259;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
It turns out that the Cubex ignores the 5D commands included in the default
Kisslicer setup (I thought this was kind of interesting). I also tried G2
and G3 but the program would not load (I was just messing around with stuff
so I may not have created the G2 and 3 lines correctly). Since the Cubex
never complained the issue never came up.
The excess commands do create a lot of clutter and can make debugging
problems (like M227 for instance) more difficult. With the changes above
Kisslicer is now putting out really clean Gcode (as far as I have figured
out). With one exception.
The codes in the Postfix tab are not necessary for the machine for the
machine to run correctly. When the firmware runs out of Gcode it parks the
head, and lowers the table. I'm sure that it also stops the encoders and
turns off the heaters. The Cubex Slicer includes these lines at the end of
its program. I liked the idea of a nice "clean" "defined" end to the
program so suggested it to Evan.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7260#msg7260>
« *Reply #233 on:* November 25, 2013, 04:38:05 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7260;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Joe,
Can you post your .bfb file?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7261#msg7261>
« *Reply #234 on:* November 25, 2013, 05:01:30 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7261;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I tried to modify my printer file by copy and paste. Not a good idea. I
used evanevery file. Seems to work now .
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7262#msg7262>
« *Reply #235 on:* November 25, 2013, 05:07:35 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7262;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I just tried the new Cubeit with 2 extruders. Works correctly.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7263#msg7263>
« *Reply #236 on:* November 25, 2013, 09:21:07 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7263;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on November 25, 2013, 02:34:39 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7257#msg7257>
I've never "deselected" them (5D Style codes). They were always in my
print files. They didn't appear to cause any issues.
Why give it the opportunity?
Quote from: evanevery on November 25, 2013, 02:34:39 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7257#msg7257>
It just appears they are ignored. Is that NOT the case? What,
specifically, are they for?
Uhhh, non-BfB printers? If they are irrelevant, seemingly ignored or not,
they should NOT be in there. May not show up *now* but, we're talking about
BfB/3D Systems, here. In other threads, people have blithely hit the
Defaults button, the BfB and 5D codes are combined and it's caused all
sorts of issues, some of which were difficult to sort out until there was
more information provided; not the least of which was not being able to use
any extruder other than the first, due to "T0" being in there.
If it isn't necessary, especially if it isn't compatible, delete it. There
isn't any point in asking for trouble. These systems are complex enough as
it is, without introducing a bunch of cruft into the code that is
specifically for *other than* BfB hardware/firmware.
« *Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 09:30:55 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7308#msg7308>
« *Reply #237 on:* November 29, 2013, 11:32:58 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7308;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I'm a total noob at this, so I'd really appreciate some advice. I've setup
KISS and I'm trying to print the "thin wall calibration", CubeX reads it
fine, starts printing the first layer OK (a little squished, still
struggling with the ideal Z-offset). However, when it starts printing the
second layer, the filament stops coming out of the nozzle. The print head
is moving as if printing (on all 3 axes), but nothing comes out!
At first I thought that the nozzle may be jammed, but after cleaning the
nozzle and repeating both the KISS sliced file and a previous one made in
cube's proprietary program (later successfully printing) it is obvious that
this was not a hardware issue.
Still waiting for my KSpro key, I presume that has nothing to do with my
issues... ? [image: :)]
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7309#msg7309>
« *Reply #238 on:* November 29, 2013, 11:54:11 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7309;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Ok,... maybe following someones pdf guide exactly "to the number" wasn't
the greatest idea..
When I set skin thickness to >0 it prints just fine. (the instructions said
0)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7314#msg7314>
« *Reply #239 on:* November 29, 2013, 02:38:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7314;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Following the directions is what should be done. For a Thin Wall, not
Solid, Calibration, the Skin Thickness should be "0" to remove the bottom
and top surfaces from a model that is solid and only print the vertical
walls. By setting Skin Thickness to ">0" you've masked over the real
problem. Just getting a positive result, by any means possible, doesn't
invalidate the instructions. It indicates something else.
There are a number of things that can cause this symptom. I'm wagering temp
too low or Prime/Suck improperly set. I've had instances where the nozzle
would clog just by touching it with a toothpick. The extrusion is chilled
just enough to impede the flow and the drive strips the filament; hosing
the print until I clear it and run a manual purge to get past the stripped
portion of the filament.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7316#msg7316>
« *Reply #240 on:* November 29, 2013, 04:14:35 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7316;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Welcome to the club!
Can you post your settings?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7321#msg7321>
« *Reply #241 on:* November 30, 2013, 05:57:48 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7321;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Penske, I didn't realize you were the author of the guide. Of course;
credit where it's due, good job!!
Instead of posting my settings just now, I'll do some more tweaking and
report on my progress. It's funny how obviously delicate the FDM process
is, and the manufacturer leaves us with a software that offers us a total
of like 10 possible settings combinations.. lol
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7322#msg7322>
« *Reply #242 on:* November 30, 2013, 07:47:35 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7322;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
I've increased the temperature, so I'm finally getting a print after the
first layer, and looks kind of ok, but I'm getting small holes on the
walls, still playing with the prime/suck and flow tweaks, so far the
output's pretty much the same.. It prints, but it's definitely far from
perfect.
Is there a guide of some sort about the relationship between prime/suck and
other parameters? The cubeX is a pain, not having a direct computer to
printer connection..
I guess it's - no pain no gain.. [image: :)]
My settings, so far:
Extrusion width: 0.4 mm
Temp.: 210/210/150
Prime: 1-0.75
Suck: 0.75
Flow tweak: 1.1 - 0.85
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7323#msg7323>
« *Reply #243 on:* November 30, 2013, 11:53:02 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7323;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Everything's fine now, note to self: less posting, more tweaking!
My settings if anyone's interested:
material: PLA (white), Cube's proprietary filament (but not in its
cartridge, thankfully)
prime: 0.15
suck: 0.15
flow tweak: 0.95
temperature: 220/220/150
using .inis and cubeit from evanevery's latest post (thanks a lot, it works
like a charm)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7324#msg7324>
« *Reply #244 on:* November 30, 2013, 01:54:16 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7324;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Those values look about right.
Be aware that a TW/Solid calibration pair need to be done for every
material. Should be done for every new batch from the same manufacturer if
you want to eliminate variance in batches. Colors can influence the
parameters, so don't gloss over color variations from one manufacturer
until you've proven that the variance isn't significant and can be assumed
to be the same for all varieties.
Different manufacturers' filament can have a significant shift in the
temperature range center. BfB ABS is relatively high at 260C, while the
stock I get from ProtoParadigm centers at 230C. In all actuality, a
calibration should be done for every temperature within a given material as
well but, usually, once you find the center range for a given material, one
calibration per stock is enough.
« *Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 02:03:44 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7325#msg7325>
« *Reply #245 on:* November 30, 2013, 04:44:11 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7325;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Does the 3d Touch support different values for prime and suck?
The reason I ask is I don't think the Cubex does. I think the Cubex
ignores any value entered for suck and applies the value specified for
prime for both prime and suck.
On Wednesday I did a bunch of testing. I entered a prime of 0 and a suck
of 1 and observed the results. Then I entered a Prime of 1 and a suck of 0
and observed. My observations included the resulting test cube and
watching the extruder shaft (I had previously put marks on the shafts so I
could see them rotate).
So far I have only tested our current use of M227. Maybe there are other
commands or configurations that will allow different prime and suck (I just
haven't found them yet). Before I go too far down that rabbit hole I
wanted to see what the other machines do (3d touch, 3000, etc).
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7326#msg7326>
« *Reply #246 on:* November 30, 2013, 05:34:02 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7326;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
Separately altering values on a 3DT does work, even though it does have a
firmware destring. It doesn't surprise me that 3DSystems goes further down
the path of thinking for their users. As a debugging step, try not setting
either of the P/S values at "0" but, instead, a really low value greater
than "0". Could be that "0" is ignored (*nobody* would ever set this value
to "0"!) and a substitution takes place.
« *Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 06:02:08 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7332#msg7332>
« *Reply #247 on:* December 02, 2013, 05:17:21 AM »
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Thank you very much for your great work! Without it our Cubex printer will
almost unusable!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7333#msg7333>
« *Reply #248 on:* December 02, 2013, 08:05:36 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7333;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
While its nice that everyone uses the same test cube as a common
foundation, certain issues may not be evident when using a single simple
model.
For instance, I see much more dependence on a proper prime/suck setting
when I am printing a relatively thin/narrow object with 20% infill. If
prime and suck aren't properly set, the very narrow internal fill structure
actually never gets implemented. By the time a low prime value catches up
with a larger suck setting, the nozzle is already done with the narrow fill
pattern. I'm now using 0.75/0.75 and I've eliminated the bulk of this
issue but I'm still not convinced I have an optimal setting (yet)...
I'm not sure that the cube is the best model to test prime/suck due to its
relative simplicity...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7340#msg7340>
« *Reply #249 on:* December 02, 2013, 01:59:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7340;topic=689.200;last_msg=13088>
It isn't. The calibration cubes are for calibrating steady flow
computation, not interruptions of same. I'm not even sure that there can be
a calibration test for P/S. There are too many variables in the de-string
section that influence the action. Making adjustments per-print will be
effective, due to these settings, but a calibration that is supposed to
span all instances, like extrusion volume does, is remote.
« *Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 02:04:07 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7341#msg7341>
« *Reply #250 on:* December 02, 2013, 02:37:16 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7341;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
all I can say ypu guys are amazing I am actually being able to use my cubex
kudos to kisslicer. now quick question I set my temperature to 270 target
but the read out say target 230 and temp 230 any suggestions
Tom
think I just found out the issue i have kisslicer running cubeit but it is
calling up my pla settings
« *Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 02:43:02 PM by treemagnet* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7342#msg7342>
« *Reply #251 on:* December 02, 2013, 02:46:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7342;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
CubeIt won't change your material temps. Make sure you are assigning the
proper nozzle in your Kisslicer extruder mapping...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7343#msg7343>
« *Reply #252 on:* December 02, 2013, 04:50:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7343;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
ok so where in the "brb" what sets the temperature or is it an m code
also is there a way of not having to enter the verification everytime you
post?
Thanks
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7344#msg7344>
« *Reply #253 on:* December 02, 2013, 05:38:17 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7344;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
ok so search before ask lol m104 is temp code. so I set the temperature on
one print and make a test file and then do a second print with a different
temp. when I compare them the M104 temps are the same and didn't change any
suggestions?
Thanks
Tom
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7345#msg7345>
« *Reply #254 on:* December 02, 2013, 06:03:38 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7345;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
After you post several times it will no longer ask for a verification...
The temps are set in Kisslicer. You do not need to edit anything in your
print files. Make sure your Materials (ABS, PLA) are defined with the
proper temps in the Kisslicer interface (Material Tab). Then specify which
materials are loaded in each extruder in your printer using the Kisslicer
Interface (Printer -> Extruders -> Material). Finally, be sure to map the
model to the proper extruder in the Kisslicer interface (Printer ->
Extruders -> Ext Map -> Object). This is all done with Kisslicer. You
should not have to even open your print file...
The only reason folks are editing their print files here is for testing
changes which can not (yet) be implemented either with Kisslicer or
CubeIt. I don't think we have identified anything new that fits that
description since our latest mods to Kisslicer settings and CubeIt ...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7346#msg7346>
« *Reply #255 on:* December 02, 2013, 06:07:21 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7346;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Might search for "Idiots Guide". It was a student project that a few of us
wrote for him/her and it covers the basics of operating KS.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7347#msg7347>
« *Reply #256 on:* December 02, 2013, 06:14:20 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7347;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Is anyone able to identify the thermistor used in the CubeX print heads? I
am working on a custom print head (based on Jhead) but don't have the
equipment to test resistance on the thermistor at specific temperatures.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7348#msg7348>
« *Reply #257 on:* December 02, 2013, 06:16:19 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7348;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
BTW... Great work to all of you that took the time to troubleshoot the
puddle issue!!!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7349#msg7349>
« *Reply #258 on:* December 02, 2013, 06:19:57 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7349;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
great thanks
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7350#msg7350>
« *Reply #259 on:* December 02, 2013, 06:37:31 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7350;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
figured out my problem it's my fingers
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7369#msg7369>
« *Reply #260 on:* December 04, 2013, 07:04:19 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7369;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Hi,
I'm new with the Kiss, I have cubex trio and start now with the free Kiss,
I'm waitting for KSpro.
How turn on the leds? Have a MCode?
Thanks
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Prime and Suck<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7371#msg7371>
« *Reply #261 on:* December 04, 2013, 08:03:25 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7371;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Hi,
Sorry for my english, i'm French ^^
Prime and suck value of 0.75 causes a problem on a Cubex. Every time the
nozzle back into the heating zone matter no longer flows properly at the
beginning of the next layer. matter seems not boot. slightly pushing the
filament from the cartridge that reboots. Suck function does not have to
take place at this momement but only the Prime function.
I hope you have understood my English ^ ^
« *Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 08:17:22 AM by teknbul* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7372#msg7372>
« *Reply #262 on:* December 04, 2013, 08:06:27 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7372;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Thanks to all who worked out the Kisslicer issues and special thanks to
evanevery for his work on CubeIt and posting settings for Kisslicer. I
just set up Kisslicer yesterday and ran a part and found the puddle issue.
Then applied evan's updates and it's working great now. Much improvement
over Cubex Slicer. Not to mention no more POS cartridges!!!!!!
I did have an issue maybe you guys can help me out here. While printing
yesterday (PLA Red) I would hear a snap/pop sound from the extruder and
noticed at the same time it would put a little void in the part. Now the
materail I'm using is 6-8 months old, could that be the cause? Or I was
thinking maybe I have the temp set too high @ 195 main, 210 first layer, &
150 keep warm? I'm running a cubex trio @ firmware 1.07, only using 1
extruder with the kisslicer. Also I have not tried ABS.
I attached a magnified picture.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2683;image>
[image: *] voids in PLA.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2683> (43.18
kB, 641x484 - viewed 23 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7373#msg7373>
« *Reply #263 on:* December 04, 2013, 08:39:04 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7373;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I have seen (and continue to experience) the exact same issues as seen in
your model. I have been experimenting with prime/suck settings to see if
this helps (currently at 0.75/0.75). My hopes in posting the text list of
settings (a bunch of messages back) was that we could all agree on the
salient setting so we could then move forward discussing the actual
individual settings that folks were using. Distributing INI files may be
useful, but for discussion, the parameters need to addressed individually.
Additionally, I'm not making any claims that the settings I have posted,
and the INI's that I have provided, are the optimum config.
I also get random voids in my models (I'm using abs) and I'm curious what
might cause this and what settings folks are using who do not experience
this...
Does anybody have a list of real good set of settings (for both ABS and
PLA) which they believe provides optimum printing? If so, how does that
compare to the list that I posted a ways back?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7374#msg7374>
« *Reply #264 on:* December 04, 2013, 09:23:04 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7374;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
First off, thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread,
particularly PenskeGuy and evanevery. The difference between using the
CubeX slicer and KS is night and day.
I have been looking at this layer gap issue for the last few days using a
thin wall calibration printing in CubeX PLA (blue) at 195C main and 210C
first layer. I can eliminate the gaps by changing the speed at which the
layers print. The print speed appears to need to be 40 mm/sec to print
without gaps. Print the same thin wall cal at 30 mm/sec and there will be
gaps, 40 no gaps.
Today I repeated this at 215C main and 230C 1st layer and got the same
results.
I looked at some of the files that were done with the CubeX slicer. When
the extruder is off, the print head moves at 500 mm/s. If the file was
written as a "Fast Draft," the print head moves at a maximum speed of 66
mm/s with the extruder on. If the file was written as a "standard" print
(with fine detail selected), the print head moves at a maximum speed of
38.3 mm/s with the extruder on.
This is all for a layer height of 0.25 mm.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7375#msg7375>
« *Reply #265 on:* December 04, 2013, 09:42:48 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7375;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote
"I looked at some of the files that were done with the CubeX slicer."
HI,
How you open the cubex files?
Thanks
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7376#msg7376>
« *Reply #266 on:* December 04, 2013, 09:43:22 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7376;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Are you saying that printing FASTER (or equal to) than 40 mm/sec will
eliminate the gaps? This seems counter intuitive...
I expect this means we will need to tweak the settings on the Kisslicer
Printer -> Speed page. My (default) settings have "Fast" = 20/30/30 and
"Precise" = 10/15/30.
Does anyone have any other (better) settings which will allow full use of
the Fast/Precise slider without compromising print integrity?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7377#msg7377>
« *Reply #267 on:* December 04, 2013, 09:48:11 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7377;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote
oes anyone have any other (better) settings which will allow full use of
the Fast/Precise slider without compromising print integrity?
HI,
I have in fast 20/35/30
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7378#msg7378>
« *Reply #268 on:* December 04, 2013, 10:01:42 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7378;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
If we really need to be printing at speeds between about 40 and 60 mm/sec,
then perhaps the following settings might be optimal:
Fast = 60/60/60
Precise = 40/40/40
I suppose we could run the infill's a little faster in the Precise mode,
but we are already well above the speeds in the default configurations.
Maybe a simple, across-the-board, speed setting for each group will work
fine.
It might also be appropriate to change the X,Y Travel speed to 500 (per
AeroJack's observation)...
Additionally, maybe we also need to adjust the first layer Max speed to 40
to meet these minimums.
Comments? I'm not currently anywhere near my equipment or I'ld simply run
another test.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7379#msg7379>
« *Reply #269 on:* December 04, 2013, 10:07:20 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7379;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Depends on the type of part you wish to make ... but I think it is very
fast, and thou shalt have problems, will have an identical print of Cubex
software [image: :(]
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7380#msg7380>
« *Reply #270 on:* December 04, 2013, 10:14:27 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7380;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: Tiago_Lopes on December 04, 2013, 09:42:48 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7375#msg7375>
Quote
"I looked at some of the files that were done with the CubeX slicer."
HI,
How you open the cubex files?
Thanks
The .cubex files are encrypted and I do not know how to read them. However,
there should be a corresponding .bfb file that is readable. That is what I
looked at.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7381#msg7381>
« *Reply #271 on:* December 04, 2013, 10:19:41 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7381;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 04, 2013, 09:43:22 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7376#msg7376>
Are you saying that printing FASTER (or equal to) than 40 mm/sec will
eliminate the gaps? This seems counter intuitive...
I expect this means we will need to tweak the settings on the Kisslicer
Printer -> Speed page. My (default) settings have "Fast" = 20/30/30 and
"Precise" = 10/15/30.
Does anyone have any other (better) settings which will allow full use of
the Fast/Precise slider without compromising print integrity?
Yes that is exactly what I am saying and I agree that it is counter
intuitive.
It could be particular to a thin wall calibration style print where only
the perimeter speed is used. Or it could be particular to my machine.
Where did the original speed values come from?
« *Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 01:05:39 PM by AeroJack* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7382#msg7382>
« *Reply #272 on:* December 04, 2013, 10:24:58 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7382;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I simply started with the default Kisslicer "sample printer" settings and
have been updating them as we find changes appropriate for the CubeX.
If faster printing solves these problems then thats certainly a win-win
situation. Even better prints in much less time!
I think we just need to establish the baseline print speed settings for the
CubeX printer. It seems you have provided info which puts us well on our
way. Thanks!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7383#msg7383>
« *Reply #273 on:* December 04, 2013, 11:18:01 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7383;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Cubex Slicer (CS) normally outputs an encrypted .cubex file. However v1.07
of CS has a bug which outputs a text readable .bfb file. Version 1.08 (the
current version) "fixes" this bug.
In CS v1.07 setup the part as usual. Click "Build". A .bfb file is
created in the same directory as the part file.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7385#msg7385>
« *Reply #274 on:* December 04, 2013, 11:28:20 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7385;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Can someone please post a very simple CubeX print file generated with
1.08. (Yes, I know its encrypted) I want to compare the binary output
with something from 1.07 (before I update anything)...
Also, Is there a corresponding 1.08 firmware update also available? Is
anyone using this? If so, can we get a solid confirmation that we can
update to 1.08 firmware and still use text based bfb files and
non-proprietary filament?
It would be good to know this before I, or anyone else, tries an upgrade...
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CUBEX / KisSlicer / CubeIt<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7386#msg7386>
« *Reply #275 on:* December 04, 2013, 11:48:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7386;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
@evanevery, and all the other 3d print masters here:
THANK YOU SO MUCH
for all yor great work you did! I've tried to print w/o the original
cartridges installed in their bays: works great! no puddle anymore!
... and so much better than the original trashware.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7387#msg7387>
« *Reply #276 on:* December 04, 2013, 12:03:34 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7387;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
In looking at a 1.07 BFB file, I am seeing many of the print commands with
an "F1000.0" speed parameter. This would indicate print speeds as low as
about 17 mm/sec (1000 mm/min / 60 = 16.77 mm/sec) in "Normal" (not draft)
mode....
I also see many print commands with an "F2300.0" parameter that would
equate to print speeds as high as 38 mm/sec.
So it seems the native CS prints between 17-38 mm/sec in "normal" mode...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7388#msg7388>
« *Reply #277 on:* December 04, 2013, 12:57:20 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7388;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Thanks all. @evanevery....I'm not trying to discredit the settings you
posted, I understand these are baseline settings. No worries. I just had
not seen any discussion on this so I was thinking it was just me. But it
sounds like a lot of you are finding the same issue. I did try ABS and
found the same issue....actually it was worse than the PLA.
I bumped up the speeds to 30/40/40 and am printing now in PLA. I would've
never thought this was a speed issue but I guess we'll see.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7389#msg7389>
« *Reply #278 on:* December 04, 2013, 01:05:56 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7389;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
No worries, that's not my perspective at all! I just want to make that
folks DONT think the setting I've posted are optimized - just mostly
functional. I really do want folks to provide more info so we can all work
together to establish a good working baseline for our printers.
It looks like, although 1.08 is the newest SOFTWARE, 1.07 is still the
current FIRMWARE:
http://cubex3dprinting.blogspot.com/2013/11/new-software-version-108.html
Hopefully, Cubify won't slam the door on us with 1.08! (No one in their
right mind would update if that was the case...)
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Gaps on Slow Feed Rate<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7392#msg7392>
« *Reply #279 on:* December 04, 2013, 01:37:27 PM »
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Quote from: AeroJack on December 04, 2013, 09:23:04 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7374#msg7374>
The print speed appears to need to be 40 mm/sec to print without gaps.
Print the same thin wall cal at 30 mm/sec and there will be gaps, 40 no
gaps.
Yes, it seems counterintuitive at first. Don't change the Fast/Slow speed
values themselves. They're probably fine. Changing them may "cure" the
problem but probably isn't the real problem.
KISSlicer calculates the required volumetric flow rate for a given path,
then computes the extruder RPM, and if it falls outside the min/max limits,
it will then change the head speed to make sure the RPM is within the
functional range.
Make adjustments to your Material > Flow Adjust > Min [mm^3/s] value. Try a
really low value at first to see what happens. There will be a value below
which the extruder flow rate will not be uniform, so 0 is not an ideal
value. On my 3DT, 0.15 seems about right. There are finite limits for each
material in both Min and Max and there are limits within each of those.
IOW, you can set the Min value too low and you can set the Min value too
high.
Note, also, that Min Layer Time can screw this up if the feed rate drops
lower than the Min mm^3/s calculates, due to a layer falling below that
minimum time limit.
Temperature will be a deciding factor on Max. It tales higher and higher
temperatures to be able to push a viscous fluid through a small hole at
greater speeds. The less viscous (thinner) it is, the easier to flow
through small orifices. Go too high in temp and you get ooze. Like
everything, there are limits. You just have to experiment to learn what
they are for your printer and materials.
« *Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 02:45:14 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7393#msg7393>
« *Reply #280 on:* December 04, 2013, 01:43:00 PM »
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Quote from: MattDub on December 04, 2013, 08:06:27 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7372#msg7372>
While printing yesterday (PLA Red) I would hear a snap/pop sound from the
extruder and noticed at the same time it would put a little void in the
part. Now the materail I'm using is 6-8 months old, could that be the
cause?
Moisture in the material boils and explosively exits the nozzle. PLA is
hygroscopic and must be kept in sealed containers with desiccant and/or
dried in a dehydrator prior to printing.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7394#msg7394>
« *Reply #281 on:* December 04, 2013, 01:47:15 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7394;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I'm running almost exclusively with ABS and I see the issue with random
voids as well...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7395#msg7395>
« *Reply #282 on:* December 04, 2013, 01:55:45 PM »
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Voids don't always have to do with moisture.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7396#msg7396>
« *Reply #283 on:* December 04, 2013, 02:28:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7396;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Particularly since AeroJack's posting where he said he was able to remedy
this issue by increasing the print speed...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7397#msg7397>
« *Reply #284 on:* December 04, 2013, 03:00:32 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7397;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I have an issue with a small part were at the beginning of each track there
is a gap. Observing the printer a while I got the imression that it is
starving. So I changed the prime/suck from 0.06/0.05 (M227 S148 P178) to
the values suggested by evanevery: 0.75/0.75 (M227 S2222 P2222).
However, this did not solve the problem.
I've tried a lot and ended up with M227 S0 P2222. Still not solving the
problem:
^Firmware:V1.07
G21
G90
M204 S265
M542
M227 S0 P2222
M552 P600 S80
M543
The whole time I had the impression that by changing the prime value I
adjusted the prime and suck process at the same time but never changed the
difference between them.
This was confirmed by the look at the injection steppers axle: it is doing
definitely a suck without a suck adjusted (suck=0.00)
does anyone have an idea what I'm doing wrong?
Thanx!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7398#msg7398>
« *Reply #285 on:* December 04, 2013, 05:05:01 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7398;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
E-Marc,
You're not doing anything wrong. See this post where I noticed the same
thing.
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7325#msg7325
I'm actually glad that you are seeing the same thing that I am.
I did some more testing yesterday, and I am convinced that the Cubex
firmware does not support different parameters for prime and suck. The
firmware reads the prime value from M227 and applies that to both prime and
suck.
I tried Penske's suggestion of using a non-zero values.
I tried moving the M227 "back where it belongs". I tried large prime low
suck, and low prime large suck. My observations included the resulting
part and watching the extruder shaft. I did this until I started to get a
little motion sick and decided that was a good time to quit.
Cubex Slicer (CS) includes an M228 with its output. I tried that, with
different values and I can't figure out that it does anything. Which makes
me curious why they put it in there.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7399#msg7399>
« *Reply #286 on:* December 04, 2013, 09:12:57 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7399;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Like I said earlier, M228 DISABLES M227.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7400#msg7400>
« *Reply #287 on:* December 04, 2013, 11:51:53 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7400;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I have been testing thin wall calibration on a 50x50x5 cube with Matter
Hackers 1.75 neon green PLA. I kept getting the gaps for about 10mm after
every new layer start and then it would smooth out for the remainder of the
layer.
I took Penske's advice and looked at the Min [MM^3.s]. I ran this up clear
to 6. This gradually condensed the gaps to the first 2mm to 3mm at the
beginning of each layer with the rest smoothing out. I think this setting
has something to do with the issue, and the default was .01 which I think
is way too low, but I don't think this is the whole issue.
Next I removed the [M551 P600 S80] command all together. As expected, this
resulted in no purge at the waste bucket, and the usual puddle at the start
of the print, but I noticed that there was not a the puddle on each
subsequent layer, and the gaps were gone at the beginning of each layer.
When I added [M551 P600 S80] back in, no puddle, but gaps returned.
I started looking at all my test prints and I think I see a pattern. Most
of my gaps are at or near layer starts, and shortly after moves, and
especially after areas where small supports are being laid. In other
words, gaps are appearing shortly after the M103 is executed.
Next, I removed all [M103] from the thin wall calibration print (I left
[M551 P600 S80] in). This also resulted in no gaps, but it did leave a
pretty fat starting corner because no suck was happening at the start of
the layer.
So after all that, I decided to draw a tiny red line on the extruder shaft
so I could watch how it moved at the start of a new layer in the thin wall
calibration print. Sure enough, to confirm e-mark's finding:
Quote from: e-marc on December 04, 2013, 03:00:32 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7397#msg7397>
The whole time I had the impression that by changing the prime value I
adjusted the prime and suck process at the same time but never changed the
difference between them.
This was confirmed by the look at the injection steppers axle: it is doing
definitely a suck without a suck adjusted (suck=0.00)
the suck is happening, but to my eye, the prime does not appear to be
returning all the way to the starting point of the suck. So here is my
theory:
M227, M551, and M228 ARE all connected in the cubeX firmware, as parameters
for M101 and M103.
To test this I first printed the thin wall calibration cube as output by
cubit (wipe disabled).
*Heres the beginning of the code which resulted in gaps at the beginning 10
to 20 mm of each layer.*
^Firmware:V1.07
G21
G90
M104 S200
M542
M227 S222 P593
M551 P600 S80
M543
M108 S10.8
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.5 F12000
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.25 F210
M101
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.41 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-47.55 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.57 Y78.06 Z0.25 F896.7
M103
*Next I printed the same cube with this change, and it resulted in the same
gaps and no visible change to the suck/prime:*
^Firmware:V1.07
G21
G90
M104 S200
M542
M227 S222 P593
M228 P0 S222
M551 P600 S80
M543
M108 S10.8
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.5 F12000
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.25 F210
M101
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.41 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-47.55 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.57 Y78.06 Z0.25 F896.7
M103
*The Third test print I made this change, resulting in the prime returning
to what appeared to be the initial point at which the suck began and the
print only had 7 very tiny gaps, none of which were at the be beginning of
a layer.*
^Firmware:V1.07
G21
G90
M104 S200
M542
M227 S222 P593
M551 P600 S80
M543
M108 S10.8
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.5 F12000
G1 X-19.44 Y77.93 Z0.25 F210
M101
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.41 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-68.73 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-47.55 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y28.77 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.27 Y78.23 Z0.25 F896.7
G1 X-19.57 Y78.06 Z0.25 F896.7
M228 P0 S222
M103
Is there any reason why placement would make a difference? (M228 after M227
but before M551 vs. placing M228 directly after M551 vs. M228 before the
first M103...)
I set my printer loose on a mendel foot 90 minutes ago and so far it's the
cleanest print I've gotten. I can see <10 pin point size gaps with no
regularity in placement.
I've attached my test files. The BAK file has my settings in case anyone
wants to have a look as a starting point
[image: *] 50x50x5.stl<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2685> (3.28
kB - downloaded 3 times.)
[image: *] 50x50x5.bfb<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2686> (6.85
kB - downloaded 4 times.)
[image: *] 50x50x5.bfb.bak<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2687> (15.86
kB - downloaded 4 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7401#msg7401>
« *Reply #288 on:* December 05, 2013, 12:57:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7401;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 04, 2013, 11:28:20 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7385#msg7385>
Can someone please post a very simple CubeX print file generated with
1.08. (Yes, I know its encrypted) I want to compare the binary output
with something from 1.07 (before I update anything)...
Also, Is there a corresponding 1.08 firmware update also available? Is
anyone using this? If so, can we get a solid confirmation that we can
update to 1.08 firmware and still use text based bfb files and
non-proprietary filament?
It would be good to know this before I, or anyone else, tries an upgrade...
Hi,
attached a simple cube in cubex file if it can be useful.
I got the following error message in cubex :
"Errore loading gcode"
hello,
I wondered why EvanEvery put to 0.38 in the diameter of the "solid
infiltration - 0.10 layer" style?
There is probably a good reason or should I put 0.5
cordially
Bye
[image: *] Cubex 1.08.cubex<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2688> (38.32
kB - downloaded 3 times.)
« *Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 01:42:09 AM by teknbul* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7403#msg7403>
« *Reply #289 on:* December 05, 2013, 06:23:40 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7403;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Penske,
You are correct that M228 would normally disable M227. However that is not
the case on the Cubex.
Bkjnky,
Placement is everything! Thanks for looking at the minimum flow rate.
I've been having the same problem with the thin starts since I switched to
the 0.5 extrusion width. Are you still running the stock electronics and
firmware?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7405#msg7405>
« *Reply #290 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7405;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
It seems we have some very good investigations underway! Once we figure
out the required logic for M227/M228 placement, I will be happy to
implement that change in CubeIT.
Right now, I am fighting with the same problem that MattDub is seeing:
Random Voids
I have successfully updated my printer speeds to Fast= 30/58/66 and
Precise=17/28/38, XYTravel=500, 1st layer max speed=28 based on what I have
seen in two native CS BFB files ("draft" and "normal" prints). The good
news is that it appears these significantly faster speeds work just fine.
The bad news is that it didn't solve my issue with random voids in the
print. Until I get these random voids eliminated, there would be little
point in trying to optimize any other settings as this issue will mask the
effects of other parameter changes.
I know MattDub is seeing these, but if anyone else is also having this
issue it would be great to see what helps resolve it. You can hear the
nozzle "pop" when it spits a void, but I'm not sure what the root cause
is. It has been seen with both PLA and ABS. Here are a few things I am
going to research to see if they might be related to the problem. If
anyone has any other suggestions, please let us know:
1. The extruder emits an audible pop when it generates a void. You can
hear it if you listen closely. Sounds just like when you are using the
last of the caulk in a caulking gun and you hit an air pocket. There
doesn't seem to be any pattern in the appearance of the voids. They appear
to be randomly generated within long continuous print commands (not at the
start or end of a command). I'm wondering if the popping we are hearing
might actually be the extruder slipping on the filament. The POS CubeX
cartridges have jammed and snapped so many times, I'm wondering if there is
debris left on the teeth/gears of the extruder which may need to be cleaned
off. Maybe this "popping" is not coming from the melted filament at all,
maybe it is the extruder slipping on the filament. I have two extruders in
my machine (one with PLA and one with ABS). I am going to move the ABS
over to the other (much less used) extruder and see if the problem
continues. This might at least help isolate a problem with a specific
extruder. Maybe it just needs to be disassembled and cleaned?
2. CubeX makes horrible cartridges. Maybe their filament is junk as
well. So I can also try some off the shelf filament to see if it makes any
difference.
3. I wonder if it also might be manageable by trying different temps. I'm
using 255/265/150 for ABS. Maybe if I reduce them a bit. What are other
folks using for ABS?
Anyone have any other ideas? Anything else to try? Suggestions?
Thanks...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7406#msg7406>
« *Reply #291 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:09:31 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7406;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I speed change made it better but didn't resolve the issue. I'll try
messing with the Min [MM^3.s] as Penske suggested and run some prints.
Thanks all!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7407#msg7407>
« *Reply #292 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:13:55 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7407;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
BJINKY - Are the gaps you are seeing the same type issue that MattDub has
in the photo he posted a while back? I wonder if these two issues might be
related (or the same)...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7408#msg7408>
« *Reply #293 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:18:02 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7408;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I don't know if anyone will find this of value but here is a link to a web
page that has a pretty concise listing of the GCodes we are talking about:
http://fabmetheus.crsndoo.com/wiki/index.php/G-Code. (Many of the other
pages I've found don't mention some of the GCodes we are using with our
printers)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7409#msg7409>
« *Reply #294 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:23:07 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7409;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Hi Evenevry,
I also heard a pop and i have the same issue since the last verions of
Cubeit.
I will try with second last version
Bye
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7410#msg7410>
« *Reply #295 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:25:47 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7410;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: teknbul on December 05, 2013, 12:57:31 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7401#msg7401>
I wondered why EvanEvery put to 0.38 in the diameter of the "solid
infiltration - 0.10 layer" style?
There is probably a good reason or should I put 0.5
Someone suggested (quite a ways back in this thread) that 0.5 was probably
too high a setting and 0.38 was suggested. Most of what I've put in my
settings is simply based on observations and suggestions by other users
folks in this thread. I still think I'm pushing a slightly more material
than I need to be, but until I get the "random voids" issue resolved, there
is not much point in trying to examine any other adjustments...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7411#msg7411>
« *Reply #296 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:28:17 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7411;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
I'm fairly certain the Random Void issue (popping) has nothing to do with
CubeIt. I had that issue even before we posted the last version. It could
have something to do with the settings that were posted at the same time
though... Are you using the INI files that I posted along with CubeIt?
Maybe something is out of whack there (temps?)...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7412#msg7412>
« *Reply #297 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:46:09 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7412;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
FYI - I'm looking at a Native CS BFB file and it looks like it is using a
first layer temp of 280 and a main temp of 262 for ABS. When printed for
PLA the native temps are 250/205.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7413#msg7413>
« *Reply #298 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:50:13 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7413;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
...Additionally (sorry for the multiple postings)...
It looks like the native CS print files always have an M228 immediately
following an M227. In the file I'm currently looking at:
M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73
It looks like these are always dropped into the print files as a pair
(never one without the other and both together)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7414#msg7414>
« *Reply #299 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:57:46 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7414;topic=689.250;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:46:09 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7412#msg7412>
FYI - I'm looking at a Native CS BFB file and it looks like it is using a
first layer temp of 280 and a main temp of 262 for ABS. When printed for
PLA the native temps are 250/205.
seems to me very much because in my testing more than 265 ? C starts to
burn ABS
for the rest :
default when the printer first and second layer is purged several
centimeter plastic falls into the drip tray.
Now it seems to me that there is no purge.
May be that this causes bubbles in the extruder
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7415#msg7415>
« *Reply #300 on:* December 05, 2013, 08:07:36 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7415;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I have also noted that the initial purge is very small. I think this will
be easy to adjust. However, I do not think this is the main problem with
the Random Voids. I printed a part last night that ran for about 1-1/2
hours (at the higher speeds) and the random voids appear all through the
product (well past the initial part of the filament).
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7417#msg7417>
« *Reply #301 on:* December 05, 2013, 10:00:23 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7417;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:13:55 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7407#msg7407>
BJINKY - Are the gaps you are seeing the same type issue that MattDub has
in the photo he posted a while back? I wonder if these two issues might be
related (or the same)...
Yes I was seeing the random voids as well, but if you watch the print and
listen for the popping noise you will likely see that they are not so
random as they usually occur shortly after a jump (M103) where prime& suck
would be initiated.
I haven't tried an M228 P0 SXXX where SXXX was a different value than the
corresponding M227 P value. That might be a good place to look for a
ratio.
Also I thing the cubify bfb files are possibly set up for a different
extruder type, maybe the actal bfb printer.
Btw the Mendel foot that I printer last night including the M228 was almost
flawless with less than ten pin point size gaps on the outer wall.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7418#msg7418>
« *Reply #302 on:* December 05, 2013, 10:14:40 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7418;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
The M227 and M228 commands I posted a few messages back:
M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73
are the actual commands that the native CS slicer is sending to the CubeX
(see prior message). These are specifically for the CubeX and not the
generic BFB printer...
We should be able to use the BFB file left behind by the Native CubeX
Slicer (v1.07) to help determine what the firmware in the CubeX is
expecting. There appears to be at least a few GCodes which are being used
in a non-standard way. (I've seen M104 commands with an extra parameter
"M104 S205 P1" and the M228 command also appears to have extra
parameters...)
Once we figure out the details of any "special" logic that needs to be
incorporated, I'll add it to the CubeIt post-processor. Of course, we
first need to confirm what needs to be done by editing the files by hand
and then running some tests....
If anyone still has the distribution/installer for the v1.07 software, it
might be handy to post it so other folks can download and examine the BFB
output file...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7420#msg7420>
« *Reply #303 on:* December 05, 2013, 11:45:04 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7420;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I've generated a simple native BFB file using the CS slicer. I only see
two areas where there is any significant changes to the settings we are
looking at (M227, M228). It appears these two areas correspond to the
initial definition for the "first layer" and then a single definition for
"all other layers".
Here is a snapshot of the "First Layer" codes seen at the top of the file
(with GCode comments I have added):
M104 S280 P1 (Set Ext1 Temp)
M542 (Enter Wipe Area)
M104 S280 (Set Ext1 Temp)
M551 P99 S150.000 (Prime/Purge Ext1)
M227 P99 S201 (Set Prime/Suck)
M228 P0 S73 (Disable Prime/Suck)
M543 (Exit Wipe Area)
M108 S24.0 (Set Extruder Speed)
Here is a snapshot of the second settings region which appears to be
associated with the rest of the print:
M103 (All Extruders Off)
M542 (Enter Wipe Area)
M104 S262 (Set Ext1 Temp)
M106 P0 (Fan On)
M227 P99 S201 (Set Prime/Suck)
M228 P0 S73 (Disable Prime/Suck)
M551 P2499 S150.000 (Prime/Purge Ext1)
M107 (Fan Off)
M543 (Exit Wipe Area)
M108 S35.0 (Set Extruder Speed)
Here are my observations about the above GCode extracts:
1. CS only appears to do these settings twice - once for the initial
layer(s) and then once more for the rest of the print
2. Prime and Suck settings (M227 and M228) are always done as a pair, in
the same order, and with the same values
3. M228 commands appear to have some extra/proprietary parameters which
are not generally implemented by other printers
3. These two regions are the only places in the file I see any temperature
setting changes (M104) for the extruder(s)
4. Extruder Flow Rate settings/changes (M108), However, are seen sprinkled
throughout the file
5. It seems nozzle purges (M551) to the wipe area (M552) are always done
at these times as well
If the above is true, the CS slicer seems to incorporate
M227/M228/M104/M551/M552 into a logical block operation. It looks like any
time one of these commands appear in the file, you will see the rest of
them in the same block.
As we examine the BFB print files produced by the CS app, its very
important to understand we are NOT trying to completely replicate the
output of the CS app. We already know the Kisslicer will give us better
prints. To duplicate the CS behavior would be pointless. What we need to
do is identify the stuff which is important, understand how to implement
it, and then throw the rest away.
I think the only important thing here may be the M227, M228 and possibly
the M551 commands. Specifically the fact that they appear to be
implemented in a non-standard fashion. I'm pretty sure, we are going to
have to implement the M227 and M228 commands as a pair and likely with the
same values we are seeing in the native output. In viewing print files
sent to Ext2, the M227/M228 commands do not change. However, when printing
with PLA, not only are the M227 and M228 commands significantly different,
but also the M551 (purge) command:
ABS Print:
"First Layers" ABS
----------------------
M551 P99 S150.000
M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73
"Remaining Layers" ABS
---------------------------
M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73
M551 P2499 S150.000
PLA PRINT:
"First Layers" PLA
----------------------
M551 P163 S80.000
M227 P163 S230
M228 P0 S163
"Remaining Layers" PLA
---------------------------
M227 P163 S230
M228 P0 S163
M551 P6000 S80.000
For both the ABS and PLA prints, the relationship between the M551 (purge)
command and the M227/M228 (prime/suck) settings changes. For the initial
purge, it precedes the settings. For the secondary purge, it comes after
the settings. Note that the M551 parameters also change based on its
placement wrt to the M227/M228 block (before or after).
I'm still looking at the native Kisslicer output as well. It also appears
to only use the M227 and M551 commands twice (first layer and remaining
layers) - so that is good. Kisslicer does not use M228. I think it should
be relatively easy for Cubeit to simply find the M227/M551 blocks in a
Kisslicer print file, rearrange them a bit, and drop in an M228 as needed.
Its likely I will also need to trap the corresponding M104 (temp) command
to determine if we are working with PLA or ABS (as the M551/M227/M228
parameters change)...
However, we should be able to manually post-process our files to implement
these blocks as needed. Lets first try and implement them by hand and see
what happens... Please help us test these and report your findings...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7423#msg7423>
« *Reply #304 on:* December 05, 2013, 12:44:22 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7423;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 10:14:40 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7418#msg7418>
The M227 and M228 commands I posted a few messages back:
M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73
are the actual commands that the native CS slicer is sending to the CubeX
(see prior message). These are specifically for the CubeX and not the
generic BFB printer...
We should be able to use the BFB file left behind by the Native CubeX
Slicer (v1.07) to help determine what the firmware in the CubeX is
expecting. There appears to be at least a few GCodes which are being used
in a non-standard way. (I've seen M104 commands with an extra parameter
"M104 S205 P1" and the M228 command also appears to have extra
parameters...)
Once we figure out the details of any "special" logic that needs to be
incorporated, I'll add it to the CubeIt post-processor. Of course, we
first need to confirm what needs to be done by editing the files by hand
and then running some tests....
If anyone still has the distribution/installer for the v1.07 software, it
might be handy to post it so other folks can download and examine the BFB
output file...
I still have version 1.07 of Cubex Software.
Attached a file. Bfbe of a simple cube 10x10x10 PLA 0.25.
[image: *] 10x10x10 Cube with CubeX 1.07.bfbe<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2692> (38.32
kB - downloaded 6 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7428#msg7428>
« *Reply #305 on:* December 05, 2013, 01:54:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7428;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:50:13 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7413#msg7413>
It looks like the native CS print files always have an M228 immediately
following an M227. In the file I'm currently looking at:
M227 P99 S201
M228 P0 S73
It looks like these are always dropped into the print files as a pair
(never one without the other and both together)
Which doesn't make any sense. Additionally, M228 doesn't have any P/S
parameters. Of course, we're talking about a BfB machine that the brainacs
at 3D Systems Borged and then tried to make it "better". As said earlier,
if they are going to use proprietary firmware that uses unique codes, at
least use numbers that haven't long been used in mainstream slicing.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7430#msg7430>
« *Reply #306 on:* December 05, 2013, 02:21:55 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7430;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7405#msg7405>
1. The extruder emits an audible pop when it generates a void. You can
hear it if you listen closely. Sounds just like when you are using the
last of the caulk in a caulking gun and you hit an air pocket. There
doesn't seem to be any pattern in the appearance of the voids. They appear
to be randomly generated within long continuous print commands (not at the
start or end of a command). I'm wondering if the popping we are hearing
might actually be the extruder slipping on the filament.
Slipping on the filament (stripping) can be detected by holding the
filament as it prints. You'll be able to feel it. However, slipping on the
filament won't cause a corresponding, immediate gap in the print. The two
are effectively disconnected by the melt. Pressure builds up in the nozzle
as a natural action during a print. This is the reason for Prime and Suck
and why Bowden cable extruders need way more P/S, because the inherent slop
in a push/pull cable will not restore the pressure quickly enough unless
you overdrive the Prime. The reported gaps at layer start sure sound like
what you get with a Bowden not set correctly.
But, that doesn't address the popping. You can narrow down whether it is
explosive gas exiting the nozzle by listening through a tube that is
directed at the nozzle.
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7405#msg7405>
2. CubeX makes horrible cartridges. Maybe their filament is junk as well.
Has been shown to be the case. The PLA I got with the 3DT exhibited the
well known "Snapping Issue"; breaking into 1"-3" pieces inside the feed
tube overnight. Fun to get out. After the second day of that, no more BfB
PLA goes in my machine. The ABS was ok in that regard but was harder,
requiring the higher temperature.
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7405#msg7405>
So I can also try some off the shelf filament to see if it makes any
difference.
I thought that was the point of doing away with the cartridges.
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7405#msg7405>
3. I wonder if it also might be manageable by trying different temps. I'm
using 255/265/150 for ABS. Maybe if I reduce them a bit. What are other
folks using for ABS?
BfB ABS was 260C. The stock I get from ProtoParadigm runs cooler. Good
results between 225C-250C. But, if it is escaping heated gas, dropping the
temp by 10C-35C won't do much. 225C is still 125C above boiling. Be aware
that ABS, nylon and polycarbonate are also hygroscopic, just not to the
degree that PLA is. If moisture has been absorbed, it will boil and rapidly
expand. That you are getting gaps in long paths, not necessarily at layer
start--which would indicate Prime/Suck, points to this.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7431#msg7431>
« *Reply #307 on:* December 05, 2013, 02:30:31 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7431;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I have an updated version of CubeIt prepared which will automatically
insert one of the 4 Prime/Suck/Purge (PSP) Blocks identified below whenever
it sees an M55x command. The four blocks I have are as follows (user
configurable in CubeIt.INI):
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for First layers of ABS
[PSPBlock ABS First]
Line1=M55x P99 S150.000
Line2=M227 P99 S201
Line3=M228 P0 S73
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for Remaining layers of ABS
[PSPBlock ABS Rest]
Line1=M227 P99 S201
Line2=M228 P0 S73
Line3=M55x P2499 S150.000
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for FIRST layers of PLA
[PSPBlock PLA First]
Line1=M55x P163 S80.000
Line2=M227 P163 S230
Line3=M228 P0 S163
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for Remaining layers of PLA
[PSPBlock PLA Rest]
Line1=M227 P163 S230
Line2=M228 P0 S163
Line3=M55x P6000 S80.000
CubeIt is watching for M104, M204, and M304 commands to trap the last
temperature setting so we can determine if the associated "PSP Block"
wshould be for ABS or PLA. There is a user configurable threshold setting
in the INI (PLA_ABS_Threshold=230) that basically says if the last seen
temp set (M104,M204,M304) is below that number then we are working with PLA
- above would be ABS. Additionally I am keeping track of the number of
times a temp is set for each extruder so we can determine if the associated
PSP replacement is for a "First Layer" or the "Remaining Layers".
The above values were all obtained from native CS BFB files but they can be
tweaked in the INI. I think this logic is pretty solid. I am going to
test it tonight. I'm not sure how this will effect the "puddle" issue we
resolved with the current release of CubeIt so I want to run a test print
first.
Hopefully, we'll have a new CubeIt version by tomorrow. Cross your
fingers...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7432#msg7432>
« *Reply #308 on:* December 05, 2013, 02:38:57 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7432;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 05, 2013, 02:21:55 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7430#msg7430>
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 07:08:10 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7405#msg7405>
So I can also try some off the shelf filament to see if it makes any
difference.
I thought that was the point of doing away with the cartridges.
I've already got a considerable amount of the BFB filament to work
through. (I have some new generic stuff as well). Right now, I'm just
pulling the cardboard spools out of the BFB Cartridges and hanging them so
they don't bind up anymore. Might as well use the BFB filament I have on
hand as long as removing it from the cartridges keep it from binding...
(...and as long as it works OK)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7435#msg7435>
« *Reply #309 on:* December 05, 2013, 03:16:23 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7435;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Ah. Then swapping in the open market filament will tell you something.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7441#msg7441>
« *Reply #310 on:* December 05, 2013, 06:21:51 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7441;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I've just run a couple of prints with the new version of CubeIt and it
appears to resolve the issue with "Random Gaps". I'm not exactly sure, but
by using the same Prime/Suck/Purge (PSP) group codes as the native version
of the CS slicer the problems seem to go away. These are the best prints
I've seen so far. (I'm using the same extruder and filament as always so
the only thing I have changed is the update to CubeIt.
The attached archive also contains my INI files for Kisslicer. Be careful
where you extract it if you do not want to overwrite your own INI files.
Once again, I'm not making any claims that all my settings are optimal, but
I'm providing these files as a quick start for folks who want to jump right
in with the CubeX and kind of be at the same place most of the rest of us
are. My INI files do have the updated/faster print speeds incorporated
which decrease the printing time dramatically with no apparent detriment to
quality.
As I alluded to in an earlier post, CubeIt has been rewritten to now
automatically swap in one of four groups of Prime/Suck settings and a Purge
command whenever it locates a purge Command in the Kisslicer output. Take
a look at the new CubeIt.INI file and you will see the 4 "PSP"
(Prime/Suck/Purge) groups in the settings. There are 2 groups for ABS and
2 groups for PLA. The first of each of these groups is used for first
layer M55x (purge commands), and the second is used for all the remaining
ones. These four PSP groups emulate what is being done by the native CS
slicer. These PSP groups appear in both the CS and KS output files
whenever an extruder temp is changed. CubeIt keeps track of the last
extruder temp setting it sees so we can determine what type of material is
currently being extruded. A Threshold temp can be set in the INI
(default=230) to help determine which material (ABS/PLA) is being printed.
Any temps below 230 are assumed to be for PLA, anything above indicates
ABS. CubeIt also counts the number of times the temp is set for each
extruder. CubeIt will select the "First" PSP group for the associated
material for the first time each extruder gets a temp setting. The "Rest"
group will be selected for all the remainder. By tracking temps, and
extruder settings, CubeIt will automatically know which one of the 4 groups
to insert into the print file any time it sees an "M55x" purge command.
The ABS/PLA Threshold temp is user configurable in the INI file. Also, you
can easily change any of the PSP command blocks to be inserted by
adding/deleting lines in the associated group or modifying their values.
So CubeIt watches the M104/M204/M304 and tracks those temps. It also
watches for any M551/M552/M553 commands. When it sees an M55x command, it
simply selects the PSP appropriate group to be inserted in its place. The
original M55x command is discarded (There is a new M55x in each PSP
group). Also, any M227 commands which follow later in the file is also
discarded (a new M227 command is also included in each PSP Group).
Please take a look at the INI file. It should be pretty self explanatory.
The default values in my CubeIt.ini file are working very well for me. No
more random gaps, no puddles, etc. I think its a pretty good place to
start tweaking again...
As usual, CubeIt.exe and CubeIt.ini need to be copied into your Kisslicer
program directory and CubeIt needs to be identified as a post-processor for
Kisslicer. There is a bunch of info in this thread at my last posting
which explains this in more detail.
Please make some test prints and let us know how this new version of CubeIt
is working for you. (Particularly if you had been seeing random gaps and
they are now gone...)
There obviously is some non-standard behavior/functionality for the
M227/M228 pairs. Perhaps this is one of the solutions we have been digging
for...
Comments and suggestions are always appreciated.
Here you go...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7442#msg7442>
« *Reply #311 on:* December 05, 2013, 07:46:05 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7442;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Hello,
Does anybody have the CubeX software version 1.07 zip file, and can post it
somewhere to download?
thank you much
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7443#msg7443>
« *Reply #312 on:* December 05, 2013, 08:38:06 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7443;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on December 05, 2013, 07:46:05 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7442#msg7442>
Hello,
Does anybody have the CubeX software version 1.07 zip file, and can post it
somewhere to download?
thank you much
I've got the ZIP file, but no where to post it. Its 53MB anyone got a
place to post the file to?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7444#msg7444>
« *Reply #313 on:* December 05, 2013, 09:09:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7444;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Thinking further about the "popping" issue, looking for alternatives, if
the Prime/Suck values were somehow being messed with by the CubeX
proprietary firmware/g-code insertions that don't make any sense, the
extruder could be made to be void of material--completely starved.
The main difference between a 3DT and a CubeX is the extruder drive
mechanism. The CubeX, having such a large drive wheel, can spit a lot of
material in either direction in a short period; way more than a direct
drive lead screw like the 3DT has. All it would take is one decimal place
off and the Suck becomes way too great. This then pulls all of the material
out of the extruder and back up into the tube--the gap is filled with air.
When the Prime happens as the head contacts the part to begin a new
extrusion, the air gets trapped for a bit, heats up and bursts out of the
nozzle. There is a void behind that takes a bit to be filled and then
pressurized, in order to supplying a normal extrusion volume.
« *Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 09:15:41 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7445#msg7445>
« *Reply #314 on:* December 05, 2013, 09:10:57 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7445;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 06:21:51 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7441#msg7441>
No more random gaps, no puddles, etc. I think its a pretty good place to
start tweaking again...
Hey Evan,
just tried the new Cubit. Seem to be getting the 1st layer puddle now, but
no gaps in the perimeter loops.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7446#msg7446>
« *Reply #315 on:* December 05, 2013, 10:22:52 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7446;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Hello bkjnky,
If you have gmail, you can insert a large file using Drive:
Here's how to insert a file using Drive when you're composing a message:
1.Hover over the plus icon insert menu plus icon at the bottom of the
compose window, which will open the insert menu. (Remember, you need to be
using Gmail's new compose and reply experience to insert files using Google
Drive).
2.Click the Google Drive icon insert from Drive. In the window that
appears, you can upload a file to Google Drive, as well as navigate to or
search for files you've stored in Drive. For files stored in Drive, select
the checkboxes next to the files you want to insert. If you don't have any
files in Drive, visit drive.google.com to either create, sync, or upload
them.
3.Click the Insert button.
Gmail then adds a link to your message so recipients can click the link to
view your file.
When you send the message, Gmail checks to see if your recipients have
access to the file and will prompt you to adjust the sharing settings on
the file(s) you've inserted, if needed.
Thank you much
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7447#msg7447>
« *Reply #316 on:* December 05, 2013, 10:37:07 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7447;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 05, 2013, 09:09:39 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7444#msg7444>
Thinking further about the "popping" issue, looking for alternatives, if
the Prime/Suck values were somehow being messed with by the CubeX
proprietary firmware/g-code insertions that don't make any sense, the
extruder could be made to be void of material--completely starved.
The main difference between a 3DT and a CubeX is the extruder drive
mechanism. The CubeX, having such a large drive wheel, can spit a lot of
material in either direction in a short period; way more than a direct
drive lead screw like the 3DT has. All it would take is one decimal place
off and the Suck becomes way too great. This then pulls all of the material
out of the extruder and back up into the tube--the gap is filled with air.
When the Prime happens as the head contacts the part to begin a new
extrusion, the air gets trapped for a bit, heats up and bursts out of the
nozzle. There is a void behind that takes a bit to be filled and then
pressurized, in order to supplying a normal extrusion volume.
I agree with this 100%. think about all the retractions that happen when
printing supports and infill. It could be creating dozens of pockets in
the flow....
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7448#msg7448>
« *Reply #317 on:* December 05, 2013, 11:12:22 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7448;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1EQlD5FnX2zSGxlbEFqb2dmVWs/edit?usp=drive_web
cubeX 1.07
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7451#msg7451>
« *Reply #318 on:* December 06, 2013, 04:29:49 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7451;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Hi,
printing with layers of 0.25 mm is pretty good.
printing with layers 0.1 mm there is an anomaly on the contour.
It looks like teeth on the contour
dimension of the part :
x / y = 55 x 12 mm
parameter:
PLA 210/240/150
SolidInfill / 0.1 mm
All other parameter as EvanEvery
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2695;image>
[image: *] _DSC0689.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2695> (217.47
kB, 1128x750 - viewed 18 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2697;image>
[image: *] _DSC0690.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2697> (186.07
kB, 1128x750 - viewed 8 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2699;image>
[image: *] _DSC0693.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2699> (210.18
kB, 1128x750 - viewed 10 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2701;image>
[image: *] _DSC0694.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2701> (204.9
kB, 1128x750 - viewed 12 times.)
« *Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 04:34:21 AM by teknbul* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7453#msg7453>
« *Reply #319 on:* December 06, 2013, 05:14:08 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7453;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Looks like the teeth are only on the one long side and one end?
Is that raft as-printed?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7454#msg7454>
« *Reply #320 on:* December 06, 2013, 05:31:28 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7454;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 06, 2013, 05:14:08 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7453#msg7453>
Looks like the teeth are only on the one long side and one end?
Is that raft as-printed?
Hi,
Yes is the raft.
The teeth are on one side and one curve of the contour.
teeth increased or decreased along the contour.
decreased or increased, because I no longer know the sense of displacement
in 0.25 it does not appear
« *Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 05:41:46 AM by teknbul* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7455#msg7455>
« *Reply #321 on:* December 06, 2013, 05:46:04 AM »
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Quote from: teknbul on December 06, 2013, 05:31:28 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7454#msg7454>
Yes is the raft.
Ok. Having a bit of trouble figuring out how that got printed. It looks
draped, like a table cloth.
Quote from: teknbul on December 06, 2013, 05:31:28 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7454#msg7454>
The teeth are on one side and one curve of the contour. in 0.25 it does not
appear
I presume that the paths view in KS shows the path as being straight along
those edges?
How many Loops?
Can you provide a screen grab of the slice through the layers where the
teeth appear in the print?
« *Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 05:49:58 AM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7456#msg7456>
« *Reply #322 on:* December 06, 2013, 05:50:47 AM »
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Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 06, 2013, 05:46:04 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7455#msg7455>
I presume that the paths view in KS shows the path as being straight along
those edges?
Yes
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 06, 2013, 05:46:04 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7455#msg7455>
How many Loops?
2 loops
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7457#msg7457>
« *Reply #323 on:* December 06, 2013, 06:32:55 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7457;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
may have to do a little recap on controls M55x, M227, M228
M55x = Purge command
M227 = function Suck
M228 = Prime function
P = Number of stepper motor
S = RPM * 10
Is this good?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7458#msg7458>
« *Reply #324 on:* December 06, 2013, 06:42:50 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7458;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I did not see any puddle in either of my latest test prints. Does anyone
else have any observations?
We can certainly rearrange the order, modify, or add to, of the commands in
any of the PSP groups in the CubeIt.ini file. (For example: Move the M55x
after the M227/M228 in the "First Layer" PSP Groups). CubeIt's job is
simply to detect when the insert of the group is necessary, choose the
proper section in the INI, and then just insert the commands inthe order
they are listed. (Note that the key names in the INI sections do not
matter (Line1, Line2, etc) - CubeIt just copies in the entire section
(without the key names) in the order it is listed. You can have as many
commands in these groups as you want. This should make it relatively easy
to test different combinations and modifications.
But I'm curious why I didn't see any puddle in either of my tests...
Since its obvious that there is some proprietary logic associated with the
PSP groups, I think we need to proceed cautiously to try and figure out
what exactly is going on...
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for First layers of ABS
[PSPBlock ABS First]
Line1=M55x P99 S150.000
Line2=M227 P99 S201
Line3=M228 P0 S73
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for Remaining layers of ABS
[PSPBlock ABS Rest]
Line1=M227 P99 S201
Line2=M228 P0 S73
Line3=M55x P2499 S150.000
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for FIRST layers of PLA
[PSPBlock PLA First]
Line1=M55x P163 S80.000
Line2=M227 P163 S230
Line3=M228 P0 S163
; Prime/Suck/Purge Block Inserted (at M55x) for Remaining layers of PLA
[PSPBlock PLA Rest]
Line1=M227 P163 S230
Line2=M228 P0 S163
Line3=M55x P6000 S80.000
1. Why do the M55x commands precede the M227/M228 pair in the first layer
print, while coming AFTER the pairs for the rest of the print?
2. Why do the values of the M55x command change so radically between
"first" layer & "rest" layers of the prints?
3. Note that M228 has some extra parameters... I wonder what they do?
They differ between PLA and ABS... Note that for PLA, the M228 "S"
parameter always matches the groups M227 "P" parameter. For ABS, they are
different (but consistent). ...And these are not round numbers, but pretty
specific integers...
4. Note that in the first layer print, the M55X P value always matches the
P value of the M227 command which immediately follows it. These aren't
round numbers either (i.e. 99, 163) so I'm wondering if there is some
logical relationship...
First, lets find out why some folks are still seeing puddles. I think that
might be fairly easy to get out of the way...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7459#msg7459>
« *Reply #325 on:* December 06, 2013, 06:48:27 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7459;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: teknbul on December 06, 2013, 06:32:55 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7457#msg7457>
may have to do a little recap on controls M55x, M227, M228
M55x = Purge command
M227 = function Suck
M228 = Prime function
P = Number of stepper motor
S = RPM * 10
Is this good?
Yesterday I ran a bunch of Native BFB files (v1.07) and changed the
parameters between tests. I preserved these for easy reference. I ran 4
tests PLA on Ext1, PLA on Ext2, ABS on Ext1, and ABS on Ext2.
The "P" parameter on the M228 was always "P0" so it doesn't appear to
reference any particular extruder. The only command which varied between
extruders was the M55x command (M551, M552, M553). (CubeIt will convert
the M55x in the INI PSP Groups to match whatever extruder is currently
being used).
Keep Looking!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7460#msg7460>
« *Reply #326 on:* December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7460;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 05, 2013, 10:14:40 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7418#msg7418>
I've seen M104 commands with an extra parameter "M104 S205 P1" and the M228
command also appears to have extra parameters...
In the set temperature m-code, they are using the P1 as a modifier. Without
the P1, the code M104 S210 sets the target temperature to 210C and waits
for the hot end to reach that temperature before executing the next command.
With the P1, M104 S210 P1 sets the target temperature to 210C, but does not
wait for the hot end to reach that temperature before continuing with the
program. It immediately goes to the next line of code.
I read about this here
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=606.msg4491#msg4491
I also verified this behavior by running this short program on my machine.
^Firmware:V1.07
G21
G90
M104 S195
G1 X-9.78 Y24.22 Z0.5 F12000
G1 X-9.78 Y24.22 Z5.00 F180
G1 X-10.55 Y24.88 Z5.00 F900.7
M103
M104 S0
Without the P1 at the end of the M104 line, the machine heats up the hot
end and then does the movements. Since the hot end takes a while to heat
up, it takes longer than one minute to execute the program.
If you replace the 4th line above with M104 S195 P1, the machine does not
wait for the hot end to heat up, it runs the movements and the program
finishes in few seconds.
The other interesting thing is the above code does not tell the machine to
move to the wipe area, M542, but it does it anyway. So the M542/M543 pair
maybe redundant when doing a temperature change.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7461#msg7461>
« *Reply #327 on:* December 06, 2013, 07:39:48 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7461;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Do you think this might provide some insight into the extra parameters on
the M228 command?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7463#msg7463>
« *Reply #328 on:* December 06, 2013, 02:14:54 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7463;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Hey guys... I'm gonna be out of town most of next week. I don't know how
much access I'll have to the forum. Keep the info flowing and I'll try to
implement anything that's needed into CubeIt when I get back...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7464#msg7464>
« *Reply #329 on:* December 06, 2013, 05:53:59 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7464;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Hey I waws wondering if there is a Doc explaining all the function of
Kisslicer I am couriuos what crown and loops and other things are
thanks
Tom
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7465#msg7465>
« *Reply #330 on:* December 06, 2013, 07:12:28 PM »
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Quote from: treemagnet on December 06, 2013, 05:53:59 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7464#msg7464>
Hey I waws wondering if there is a Doc explaining all the function of
Kisslicer I am couriuos what crown and loops and other things are
thanks
Tom
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=671.0;attach=1902
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7466#msg7466>
« *Reply #331 on:* December 06, 2013, 07:27:54 PM »
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great thanks
Tom
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7473#msg7473>
« *Reply #332 on:* December 07, 2013, 10:01:55 AM »
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Evan, with the new version my purge speed in the wipe box is causing my
extruder to skip. How can I slow this down and decrease the amount of purge
a bit?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7479#msg7479>
« *Reply #333 on:* December 07, 2013, 01:55:48 PM »
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Quote from: AeroJack on December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7460#msg7460>
With the P1, M104 S210 P1 sets the target temperature to 210C, but does not
wait for the hot end to reach that temperature before continuing with the
program. It immediately goes to the next line of code.
Which is how Mx04 is supposed to work.
Quote from: AeroJack on December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7460#msg7460>
Without the P1 at the end of the M104 line, the machine heats up the hot
end and then does the movements.
Which is what Mx09 is for.
Quote from: AeroJack on December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7460#msg7460>
Since the hot end takes a while to heat up, it takes longer than one minute
to execute the program.
If you replace the 4th line above with M104 S195 P1, the machine does not
wait for the hot end to heat up, it runs the movements and the program
finishes in few seconds.
It would be recommended to place an Mx04 Snnn command in the prefix, in
order to ensure that the extruder is up to temp before going to print.
While the program may finish in a few seconds, it may also damage your
extruder because it isn't waiting on that first heat. Subsequent temp
changes can benefit from adding P1, but the first should be without it.
Quote from: AeroJack on December 06, 2013, 07:11:57 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7460#msg7460>
The other interesting thing is the above code does not tell the machine to
move to the wipe area, M542, but it does it anyway. So the M542/M543 pair
maybe redundant when doing a temperature change.
This is the same behavior as a 3DT. There are a few threads on this and how
to alter the action:
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=606.msg4509#msg4509
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=163.msg6939#msg6939
http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=751.msg5536#msg5536
« *Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 02:02:15 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7480#msg7480>
« *Reply #334 on:* December 07, 2013, 01:59:14 PM »
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Quote from: evanevery on December 06, 2013, 07:39:48 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7461#msg7461>
Do you think this might provide some insight into the extra parameters on
the M228 command?
The thread is too long to try to locate where this answer may be but what
happens if you just whack the M228 line altogether?
Alternative to that, if there is any convention going on with their stupid
messing with codes, changing the M228 P0 Snnn to M228 P1 Snnn may trigger
something that is now disabled. M228 is a disable command, so perhaps they
have added a switch.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7481#msg7481>
« *Reply #335 on:* December 07, 2013, 03:27:43 PM »
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Quote from: joestefano on December 07, 2013, 10:01:55 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7473#msg7473>
Evan, with the new version my purge speed in the wipe box is causing my
extruder to skip. How can I slow this down and decrease the amount of purge
a bit?
I'm not seeing any issues with extruders skipping or puddles.
Are you using the Kisslicer INI files I included with the latest version of
CubeIt? (So at least we are using the same settings) I've been printing
with ABS using the 20% infill style and everything is working great at that
setting. No puddles, no random gaps/voids, no extruder skipping...
What material and what style are you using? Can you post your kisslicer
native output (*.bfb.bak) and also the CubeIt modified file (*.bfb). If
you don't have a *.bfb.bak then CubeIt hasn't been integrated properly...
I'm all for running down any problems, but we first have to make sure we
are using the same settings, etc.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7484#msg7484>
« *Reply #336 on:* December 07, 2013, 04:51:39 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7484;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Evan,
I posted a short video here http://youtu.be/gWn9yBQOY1c the 1st layer
purge is very short and does not skip the 2nd layer purge is long and
skips. I am using Reprap PLA, I have been using it for awhile now and the
only time it skips is if I try to run it to fast for the temp. Otherwise
it's great.
I went back to the prior version of CubeIt and my settings that work well
with this PLA is "material" P .5 S .1 and in the Gcode tab P2000 S80
I don't know if this helps.
[image: *] PLA1x1 box no bottom.bfb.bak<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2703> (15.54
kB - downloaded 1 times.)
[image: *] PLA1x1 box no bottom.bfb.bak<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2704> (15.54
kB - downloaded 0 times.)
« *Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 04:53:22 PM by joestefano* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7485#msg7485>
« *Reply #337 on:* December 07, 2013, 05:06:17 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7485;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Does anyone know the steps per revolution of the Cubex extruder motors? I
found a post that said 3200 but that was for a different bfb machine. Are
they all the same?
Thanks
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7487#msg7487>
« *Reply #338 on:* December 07, 2013, 10:20:36 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7487;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: joestefano on December 07, 2013, 10:01:55 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7473#msg7473>
Evan, with the new version my purge speed in the wipe box is causing my
extruder to skip. How can I slow this down and decrease the amount of purge
a bit?
I've seen this issue as well, but it usually occurs when I haven't
correctly set my filament size correctly, or there is a need to clean the
print jet (not total clog, but some buildup inside nozzle)Check your
filament in a few place to make sure the size setting is correct, if that's
not the issue, try removing the head and heating it up with a heat gun then
push a drill bit square end first through the the nozzle to push out all
material.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7509#msg7509>
« *Reply #339 on:* December 09, 2013, 05:11:48 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7509;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
so I bought some black abs from botfeeder and I have been hearing this
"popping" and have had voids in my print. when I replace the filament with
the cubex abs filament I don't hear the "popping" sound and no voids. could
it be the filament can anyone one suggest a place to buy filament
preferably in Canada
thanks
Tom
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7519#msg7519>
« *Reply #340 on:* December 09, 2013, 12:18:51 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7519;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Just an update from my end. I updated the CubIt and associated .ini files
to the latest evanevery posted. Running PLA with the fast setting, it
almost eliminated the voids but the first and last 5 layers were awful to
say the least. Plus the infill was going so fast I thought the cubex was
going to shake itself apart. Then I tried agian on the precise setting and
it made a nice part but the voids were all over the place again. Also with
both getting a very small puddle at the start of the first layer, but it's
something I can live with.
All the code stuff you guys are shooting out is beyond me. I understand
(somewhat) what you all are doing, but I won't attempt those kind of
changes, cause I'll really F things up.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7531#msg7531>
« *Reply #341 on:* December 09, 2013, 05:11:18 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7531;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I've been getting those random pops since the very begining of using kiss
(which was two weeks ago lol).
Every pop necessarily causes a void. However I got from "popcorn" to no
voids (practically no voids, maybe a couple in several hours) by tweaking
the temperature and prime.
It is a bit tricky, because it seems that every change in temperature
requires a change in "prime". So far "suck" had no effect whatsoever
(ranging from 0.05 to 1.0). The material is cubex white PLA.
Example settings with no voids:
218 C, prime: 0.15
210 C, prime 0.05
I'm a bit scared of trying the new cubeit, because I've never experienced
the puddle issue and I'm not sure I want to! [image: :)]
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7545#msg7545>
« *Reply #342 on:* December 09, 2013, 11:48:51 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7545;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: MattDub on December 09, 2013, 12:18:51 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7519#msg7519>
Just an update from my end. I updated the CubIt and associated .ini files
to the latest evanevery posted. Running PLA with the fast setting, it
almost eliminated the voids but the first and last 5 layers were awful to
say the least. Plus the infill was going so fast I thought the cubex was
going to shake itself apart. Then I tried agian on the precise setting and
it made a nice part but the voids were all over the place again
This REALLY sounds like Material > Flow Adjust > Min [mm^3/s] is not set
correctly.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7558#msg7558>
« *Reply #343 on:* December 10, 2013, 07:22:33 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7558;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: MattDub on December 09, 2013, 12:18:51 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7519#msg7519>
Then I tried agian on the precise setting and it made a nice part but the
voids were all over the place again.
What are your Prime and Suck settings?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7561#msg7561>
« *Reply #344 on:* December 10, 2013, 08:08:16 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7561;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I'm going to try wildbunny's suggestion and we'll see what happens.
Settings attached.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7564#msg7564>
« *Reply #345 on:* December 10, 2013, 09:37:11 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7564;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
That's what I was going to suggest. I use .05 for prime for abs and pla.
And Wildbunny is correct, the suck parameter is ignored by the machine.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7585#msg7585>
« *Reply #346 on:* December 10, 2013, 02:12:37 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7585;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
Well.....using PLA the .15 prime was a little better and .05 was even a
little better, but the voids are still there. I'll try to post a pic
tomorrow of the .05 prime build. Any other suggestions?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7591#msg7591>
« *Reply #347 on:* December 10, 2013, 04:54:11 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7591;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I have been going crazy trying to get my cubex duo to work! I am using the
lastest version of kisslicer and Cubeit. The BFB file that is output from
CubeIt, I rename to a cubex and the machine can see it but it says there is
an error with the file. Anyone else have this problem? I am on firmware
1.07
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7593#msg7593>
« *Reply #348 on:* December 10, 2013, 06:19:40 PM »
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Quote from: dzynetech on December 10, 2013, 04:54:11 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7591#msg7591>
The BFB file that is output from CubeIt, I rename to a cubex and the
machine can see it but it says there is an error with the file.
Don't rename the output file. The suffix needs to be .bfb.
When you get time you should read the entire thread from the beginning.
You can skim through alot of the posts but you will find a lot of key
questions already answered.
Enjoy!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7602#msg7602>
« *Reply #349 on:* December 10, 2013, 08:20:22 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7602;topic=689.300;last_msg=13088>
I'v had access to a CubeX printer for a week - having never 3D'd before. I
have been trying to get the best resolution I can from the CubeX and was
testing it by printing a 1 inch, 1/4-20 nut & bolt. I thought the Cubex
software was doing a cruddy job (V1.08) with few options to try to improve
it. I was delighted to find this forum and the info on KISSlicer. I
downloaded KISSlicer, the .ini files & CubeIT from this forum and followed
the instructions (thanks everyone). I've had no problems getting the CubeX
printer to print the .bfb files, but in my now three attempts to reprint
the nut and bolt from KISSSlicer they have, much to my surprise, come out
considerably worse. See pic attached. The nut and bolt to the RIGHT is from
KISSlicer and the LEFT from CubeX. My KISSlicer initial settings were as
per the posted .ini files, but I have been adjusting a few parameters
(extruder temp, jitter angle, etc., - see attached screen shot) without
much effect. Any help would be appreciated. I'll keep at it till Dec. 13
when I have to leave the site where the Cubex is. Tx. AG.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2725;image>
[image: *] photo.JPG<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2725> (1429
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<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2727;image>
[image: *] KISS_style.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2727> (41.1
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7604#msg7604>
« *Reply #350 on:* December 10, 2013, 09:56:31 PM »
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Quote from: AG on December 10, 2013, 08:20:22 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7602#msg7602>
I'v had access to a CubeX printer for a week - having never 3D'd before. I
have been trying to get the best resolution I can from the CubeX and was
testing it by printing a 1 inch, 1/4-20 nut & bolt. I thought the Cubex
software was doing a cruddy job (V1.08) with few options to try to improve
it. I was delighted to find this forum and the info on KISSlicer. I
downloaded KISSlicer, the .ini files & CubeIT from this forum and followed
the instructions (thanks everyone). I've had no problems getting the CubeX
printer to print the .bfb files, but in my now three attempts to reprint
the nut and bolt from KISSSlicer they have, much to my surprise, come out
considerably worse. See pic attached. The nut and bolt to the RIGHT is from
KISSlicer and the LEFT from CubeX. My KISSlicer initial settings were as
per the posted .ini files, but I have been adjusting a few parameters
(extruder temp, jitter angle, etc., - see attached screen shot) without
much effect. Any help would be appreciated. I'll keep at it till Dec. 13
when I have to leave the site where the Cubex is. Tx. AG.
Take a look back through this forum. You need to calibrate your settings
for the material you are using. First do the thin wall calibration and
then the solid calibration. Once you have done that, I think you will see
considerably better results. Just looking at your screen shot, I can tell
that you have not completed the calibration required.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7609#msg7609>
« *Reply #351 on:* December 11, 2013, 02:24:26 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7609;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: AG on December 10, 2013, 08:20:22 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7602#msg7602>
I'v had access to a CubeX printer for a week - having never 3D'd before. I
have been trying to get the best resolution I can from the CubeX and was
testing it by printing a 1 inch, 1/4-20 nut & bolt. I thought the Cubex
software was doing a cruddy job (V1.08) with few options to try to improve
it. I was delighted to find this forum and the info on KISSlicer. I
downloaded KISSlicer, the .ini files & CubeIT from this forum and followed
the instructions (thanks everyone). I've had no problems getting the CubeX
printer to print the .bfb files, but in my now three attempts to reprint
the nut and bolt from KISSSlicer they have, much to my surprise, come out
considerably worse. See pic attached. The nut and bolt to the RIGHT is from
KISSlicer and the LEFT from CubeX. My KISSlicer initial settings were as
per the posted .ini files, but I have been adjusting a few parameters
(extruder temp, jitter angle, etc., - see attached screen shot) without
much effect. Any help would be appreciated. I'll keep at it till Dec. 13
when I have to leave the site where the Cubex is. Tx. AG.
Set extrusion width and infill extrusion width to 0.5 and number of loops
to 3.
/Michael
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7612#msg7612>
« *Reply #352 on:* December 11, 2013, 02:48:48 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7612;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
That looks like Oversample Resolution is too large and a non-calibrated
material. KS needs to be calibrated to the material being used, otherwise
you get rafts that are solid and extrusions oozing all over the place, due
to too much extrusion volume. Search the forum for "Thin Wall Calibration".
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7961#msg7961>
« *Reply #353 on:* December 11, 2013, 05:37:03 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=7961;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
This part was run about 3 or 4 weeks ago. Cubify ABS, .125 Layer, prime
and suck .25 maybe .5 (can't remember), speed was probably 17.5-22.5-34
(medium), temps 230-250-140. Lots of blow holes!
This part was run today. Same material, same part, .125 layer, prime and
suck 0.05, speeds 25-30-38 (fast). No blow holes.
Most important IMHO is this reel has spent the last 3 or 4 weeks in a bag
with a pouch of dessicant.
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2729;image>
[image: *] Abs_Left.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2729> (246.94
kB, 1169x969 - viewed 12 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2731;image>
[image: *] Abs_Right.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2731> (257.23
kB, 1249x929 - viewed 13 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2733;image>
[image: *] Storage.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2733> (257.29
kB, 1024x768 - viewed 5 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg8017#msg8017>
« *Reply #354 on:* December 11, 2013, 06:15:56 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=8017;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
A 1/4-20 thread is getting on the small side for this machine.
PLA_bolt, layer .25, speed fast 25-30-38, prime&suck .05, temps 210-230-150
ABS_bolt, layer .125, speed fast, p&s .05, temps 230-250-150
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2735;image>
[image: *] PLA_bolt.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2735> (207.8
kB, 800x987 - viewed 14 times.)
<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2737;image>
[image: *] ABS_bolt.jpg<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2737> (191.43
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg8260#msg8260>
« *Reply #355 on:* December 11, 2013, 09:05:18 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=8260;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on December 11, 2013, 05:37:03 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg7961#msg7961>
Most important IMHO is this reel has spent the last 3 or 4 weeks in a bag
with a pouch of dessicant.
I rest my case...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9029#msg9029>
« *Reply #356 on:* December 12, 2013, 01:12:26 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9029;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Hey guys, I just got back in town and I'm trying to catch up here...
The first thing you should understand is that it doesn't matter what you
set your prime and suck to be in Kisslicer... If you are using CubeIt to
post-process the kisslicer output, then the kisslicer prime and suck
settings will be replaced with the ones that are set in your CubeIt.ini.
CubeIt will use the appropriate ABS/PLA block from your CubeIt.ini file to
re-organize and set your Prime/Suck/Purge parameters.
We already know that the CubeX printer does NOT follow standardized
parameters for these settings. I'm all for using as much of the Kisslicer
settings as possible, but they simply don't get implemented in a way that
is appropriate for the proprietary format the CubeX is expecting. This is
exactly why CubeIt has 4 different Prime?Suck/Purge blocks in the INI file.
If you would like to adjust prime/suck/purge parameters (M227/M228/M55x),
then you should make these adjustments in the CubeIt.ini file (if you are
post-processing with CubeIt). Otherwise any changes you make in Kisslicer
are simply thrown away as they will not be implemented or organized
correctly anyway for our proprietary printer.
>---
Also, I did completely eliminate the popping and voids in my prints by
using the latest version of CubeIt. If someone has a very simple model for
me to try and print (which has pops/voids/puddles), please post the
original STL file, let me know what material you are using and which
profile and I'll run it through my machine... I really would like to be
able to replicate any problems that are being seen so I can try and figure
out what is different than what I am doing...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9219#msg9219>
« *Reply #357 on:* December 12, 2013, 03:17:06 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9219;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 12, 2013, 01:12:26 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9029#msg9029>
Also, I did completely eliminate the popping and voids in my prints by
using the latest version of CubeIt. If someone has a very simple model for
me to try and print (which has pops/voids/puddles), please post the
original STL file, let me know what material you are using and which
profile and I'll run it through my machine... I really would like to be
able to replicate any problems that are being seen so I can try and figure
out what is different than what I am doing...
They're using different material. That you don't have popping on one part
most probably will mean that you won't have popping on their parts. The
shape of the part, which is all that will be changed, doesn't make any
difference.
When *they* use the latest version of CubeIt, do not change the material,
and no popping occurs, then that will tell us something.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9695#msg9695>
« *Reply #358 on:* December 12, 2013, 08:43:56 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9695;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Does anyone have a good recommendation for desiccant and or a good supplier
to purchase from?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9773#msg9773>
« *Reply #359 on:* December 12, 2013, 09:53:05 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9773;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Well my two weeks with the CubeX has drawn to a close. Just a note to say
thanks to all who have posted to this thread with the useful tips, code and
suggestions and replies to my earlier posting on improving the print
quality of my nut and bolt (see earlier posting). What I have learned is
that simply tweaking various parameters is not the solution to achieving
the best print quality. That has resulted in little improvement in the
print quality and sometimes a detriment. Clearly the material calibrations
are a fundamental step, but unfortunately not one I have had time to
undertake. Despite not having improved the print resolution of my nut and
bolt (see earlier posting), I have to say that this forum, the availability
of KISSlicer (as opposed to the limiting CubeX software) has considerably
improved my perceptions of the utility of the CubeX printer. It's too bad
about the disadvantages of the closed-source approach taken by the company
to the CubeX and the limitations imposed by material cartridges. Thanks to
all. AG
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9837#msg9837>
« *Reply #360 on:* December 12, 2013, 10:42:10 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9837;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bkjnky on December 12, 2013, 08:43:56 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9695#msg9695>
Does anyone have a good recommendation for desiccant and or a good supplier
to purchase from?
http://ProtoParadigm.com/ <http://protoparadigm.com/> has a type the
changes color when it is used up and when it is viable. Haven't purchased
any as yet, because I take the packets that come in the reels that I buy
and dehydrate them for reuse.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9848#msg9848>
« *Reply #361 on:* December 12, 2013, 10:50:03 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9848;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: AG on December 12, 2013, 09:53:05 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9773#msg9773>
Well my two weeks with the CubeX has drawn to a close. Just a note to say
thanks to all who have posted to this thread with the useful tips, code and
suggestions and replies to my earlier posting on improving the print
quality of my nut and bolt
Thank you for the note. I hoped that withing the short time you had, that
some greater advancements could have been made. It does take time and
effort, however. Perhaps there will be an opportunity down the line where
what we have shared will be of service.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9900#msg9900>
« *Reply #362 on:* December 12, 2013, 11:27:53 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9900;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 12, 2013, 10:42:10 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9837#msg9837>
Quote from: bkjnky on December 12, 2013, 08:43:56 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9695#msg9695>
Does anyone have a good recommendation for desiccant and or a good supplier
to purchase from?
http://ProtoParadigm.com/ <http://protoparadigm.com/> has a type the
changes color when it is used up and when it is viable. Haven't purchased
any as yet, because I take the packets that come in the reels that I buy
and dehydrate them for reuse.
Do you use an oven or does a food dehydrator work?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9993#msg9993>
« *Reply #363 on:* December 13, 2013, 12:47:36 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9993;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
We got a dehydrator just for the purpose of drying out filament reels and
the desiccant packets go in there.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10401#msg10401>
« *Reply #364 on:* December 13, 2013, 06:11:48 AM »
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Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 12, 2013, 03:17:06 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg9219#msg9219>
They're using different material. That you don't have popping on one part
most probably will mean that you won't have popping on their parts. The
shape of the part, which is all that will be changed, doesn't make any
difference.
Thats *exactly* why I asked for the STL file, the type of material they are
using, and the style they are printing with. So I can reproduce the
problem environment. (I have PLA loaded in my first extruder so its not a
problem for me to switch materials and duplicate someone elses environment).
Since I am not having any issues (puddles/gaps/popping) I obviously need to
replicate the issue before I can attempt to resolve it...
I am also very curious if folks can take the time to confirm that CubeIt is
really integrated properly (Do you have a *.BFB.BAK file in addition to
your *.BFB file?) and also if the INI PSP section inserts are being
performed
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10611#msg10611>
« *Reply #365 on:* December 13, 2013, 08:48:15 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10611;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
HELP I have tried to find the explanation of thin calibration but I either
don't under stand it or not looking in the right place can some one point
me in the right direction
Thanks
Tom
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10684#msg10684>
« *Reply #366 on:* December 13, 2013, 09:44:33 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10684;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Attached is Penske's write up. I could not find the original post (I did
look). Unfortunately when you search for "thin wall calibration" you get a
list of postings telling you to search for thin wall calibration.
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kB - downloaded 10 times.)
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10695#msg10695>
« *Reply #367 on:* December 13, 2013, 09:53:15 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10695;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
McMaster Carr also sells desiccant.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#desiccant-bags/=psiygx
At the last place I worked I used to "re dry" desiccant in a toaster oven.
I can't remember what temperature I used. I would cook it until it turned
color. Google might be able to fine 1 or 2 articles on the subject.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10697#msg10697>
« *Reply #368 on:* December 13, 2013, 09:54:08 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10697;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
I pushed out the latest version of CubeIt just before going out of town. I
think there may be some confusion of exactly what CubeIt is now doing. I
wanted to get this out before I left. I don't THINK their are any issues
with the software, but perhaps I can take a little more time to document
what we THINK we know, and exactly what CubeIt is doing...
- It appears that the CubeX printer is not using industry standard
commands to establish Prime and Suck settings on the extruders. We are
pretty sure we know this because the way M227 and M228 commands are always
stacked together by the native CubeX slicer software (normally M228 would
negate an M227) and that the M228 command specifically has some additional
parameters. Because of this, it appears we need a way to manually override
the industry standard GCODE which would normally be sent to a standard
printer, with some other construct appropriate for the CubeX. Since
KISSLICER is generating industry standard code, in an industry standard
way, we can not really adjust the associated settings (Prime/Suck) in the
KISSLICER interface and expect it to generate code which is appropriate for
our proprietary CubeX printer (in any case). So, we need an alternative
way to control these settings (CubeIt). If you are using CubeIt to modify
the indiustry standard code produced by KISSLICER, you need to be quite
aware that any changes you make to PRIME and SUCK in the KS interface are
simply discarded and replaced by settings established in the CubeIt.ini
file. IOW - If you are using CubeIt, then ANY changes you are making to
the Prime/Suck settings in KS will be ignored. If you want to try and
adjust Prime/Suck when using CubeIt, simply edit the values in the INI
file...
- So why doesn't CubeIt simply use the Prime/Suck settings that KS puts
into the print file? Because, no one (to my knowledge) has successfully
determined or documented how the CubeX printer uses the information being
sent to it in its proprietary M227/M228 commands. Its pretty obvious when
you look at the native code produced by the CubeX slicer software, that
something unusual is going on with these commands. (M228 is not even
supposed to have any parameters)... So, until we understand how CubeX is
interpreting these commands, there is little point in trying to take the
standard Kisslicer Codes and regenerate them into a format appropriate for
the CubeX. (However, once we figure this all out, I will gladly update
CubeIt to do this automatically).
- So, if we don't understand how CubeX is currently using its proprietary
M227/M228 commands, what can we do? Well, we can try and copy what the
code output by the native CubeX slicer is doing. Although we may not
completely understand how CubeX is using these commands, we can certainly
try and emulate what is being done in its native environment. This is
precisely, what CubeIt is now doing.
- During my testing, I generated 4 test prints using the native CubeX
slicer:
PLA (Extruder 1)
PLA (Extruder 2)
ABS (Extruder 1)
ABS (Extruder 2)
- In examining the four test prints, I was able to extract a bunch of info
as follows:
1. The CubeX software always bundles the M227 commands with the M228
Commands. Whenever an M227 (Prime/Suck) is generated an M228 is always
send immediately afterwards.
2. The M228 has two non-standard parameters so it is unlikely to be
interpreted as a standard "Prime/Suck disable" command.
3. The M227/M228 pairs always follow an extruder temp setting
(M104/M204/M304) and nozzle purge command (M551/M552/M553) command. IOW:
The native code blocks always appears as follows (x = extruder number):
Mx04 ... (Set Temp)
M55x ... (Purge)
M227 ... (Set Prime/Suck)
M228 ... (Disable Prime/Suck)
4. For a particular extruder: The M55x/M227/M228 parameters specified in
the very use (first layer) will be different than those used in the
remainder of the file (rest of the layers). IOW: For a given extruder,
there are basically two sets of "PSP" (Prime, Suck, Purge) code blocks
which are used: 1 for the "first" layer, and 1 for the "rest" of the layers.
5. The orientation of the Purge (M55x) commands to the Prime/Suck) pairs
(M227/M228) also seems to change depending on whether the setting is being
established for the first layer or remaining layers. The Purge (M55x) is
done before setting the Prime/Suck (M227/M228) in the first layer, but
AFTER the prime/suck in subsequent layers. The numerical parameters for
the M55x also changes depending on whether it is for the first layer or
subsequent layers...
6. The parameter values in the PSP code blocks also differ between PLA and
ABS.
7. Therefore, it appears we have a total of 4 possible PSP Code blocks:
ABS First Layer. ABS Remaining Layers, PLA First Layer, PLA Remaining
Layers. These are the code blocks you will see in the CubeIt INI file.
The values I have put into the INI file are the ones which precisely
correspond to the ones seen in the Native CubeX slicer print files:
[PSPBlock ABS First]
Line1=M55x P99 S150.000
Line2=M227 P99 S201
Line3=M228 P0 S73
[PSPBlock ABS Rest]
Line1=M227 P99 S201
Line2=M228 P0 S73
Line3=M55x P2499 S150.000
[PSPBlock PLA First]
Line1=M55x P163 S80.000
Line2=M227 P163 S230
Line3=M228 P0 S163
[PSPBlock PLA Rest]
Line1=M227 P163 S230
Line2=M228 P0 S163
Line3=M55x P6000 S80.000
- So CubeIt scans the Kisslicer print file:
a. CubeIt watches for any "Mx04" commands to keep track of the current
extruder temp. It uses this to determine whether the extruder is using PLA
(<230) or ABS >230). This is the function of the "threshold" temp setting
in the CubeIt.ini file.
b. CubeIt watches to see what extruder is currently being referenced and
keeps track of the number of times an extruder is called. It uses this
info to determine whether we will be using the "FIRST" or "REST" PSP block
from the INI file for the associated material.
c. When an extruder PURGE command is located (each time an extruder is
placed in service), CubeIT simply REPLACES that "M55x" with the appropriate
PSP code block from CubeIt.INI (PLA First, PLA Rest, ABS First, or ABS
Rest).
d. Since the PSP Blocks specified in CubeIt.ini already include a
Prime/Suck Command (M227), any additional M227's in the original KISSLICER
print file are simply discarded (usually a couple of lines after the
associated M55x). KISSLICER does not generate any M228's, but we must
provide them anyway, since CubeX interprets them in some proprietary manner.
So....
If you want to try and adjust your Prime/Suck settings (M227/M228), you
should do this by editing the corresponding CubeIt.ini PSP Block(s) - NOT
by making adjustments in the KISSLICER interface (those values just get
discarded in any case).
Similarly, if you want to try and tweak your Purge settings (M55x), those
should also be done in the CubeIt.ini file for the very same reason.
With the 4 PSP blocks in the CubeIt.ini file, we should be able to emulate
the behavior of the native CubeX slicer software (even if we don't fully
understand it, or agree with it). We should also be able to tweak these
settings if we want to make some adjustments or run some experiments.
The values that I provided in my default CubeIt.ini file is simply the same
values that are being used by the native CubeX Slicer. I have every reason
to believe this is a good place to start - even if we don't fully
understand how they are being used (yet)...
I have some other thoughts on printer speeds, but I'll post separately for
that...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10709#msg10709>
« *Reply #369 on:* December 13, 2013, 10:03:46 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10709;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Thanks ill look at that
Tom
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10734#msg10734>
« *Reply #370 on:* December 13, 2013, 10:19:41 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10734;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Printer Speeds: I ran some sample prints a while back from the native
CubeX slicer to re-establish my print speeds. I am typically printing with
ABS and I ran two print samples through the native CubeX slicer. One at
DRAFT speed and one at NORMAL. KISSLICER would call these FAST and PRECISE
respectively. The numbers that I saw *for ABS* would roughly equate to the
following KISSLICER settings:
ABS FAST: 30/58/66 (Perimeter/Solid Infill Support/Sparse Infill Support)
ABS PRECISE: 17/28/38 (Perimeter/Solid Infill Support/Sparse Infill
Support)
XY Travel Speed: 500
1st Layer Max Speed: 28
I'm going to generate another set of CS native print files with PLA to see
if/how they might be different. I'll post that information shortly.
I should also note that all of my actual print tests have been at the
PRECISE setting, since I saw absolutely no value in running anything at
FAST speeds until I good good quality at PRECISE speeds (which I now
have). (And all were with ABS...)
One important thing to note is that KISSLICER does NOT appear to support
multiple speed settings to differ between ABS and PLA materials (should
this become necessary)...
If you "want to play along", I suggest you get a copy of the v1.07 CubeX
slicer software as it generates a clear text BFB file in addition to the
encrypted CUBEX file. For CubeX, the leftover (pre-encryption) file
appears to have been a "bug", for us, it is a powerful "feature" of that
particular version. You can examine/compare the contents of that leftover
BFB file to see the actual commands that are being generated in clear text
GCode... A link to the older v1.07 software was posted a bunch of messages
back in this thread...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10792#msg10792>
« *Reply #371 on:* December 13, 2013, 11:01:35 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10792;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
I should have clarified this in my post regarding the "blow holes" and the
bolts. I am essentially running CubeIt version 2. The one that only moves
the M227 command. So the Prime and Suck of .05 that I posted is what I am
sending to the machine. That is my current setup for "production" parts.
I was mainly trying to show the importance of dry filament.
I am doing my own research on the CURSE OF M227! I mean prime and suck. So
far nothing to report.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10805#msg10805>
« *Reply #372 on:* December 13, 2013, 11:12:06 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10805;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
I ran 4 print jobs through the native CubeX slicer. My test model did not
have a lot of thickness so its hard to differentiate if/how the CS Slicer
differentiates between what Kisslicer would call Perimeter and Infill
settings. Anyway, regarding ABS and PLA print speeds, I believe the
following info would be an accurate representation of how the print speeds
are being reflected wrt ABS/PLA and PRECISE/FAST...
(Note that the GCODE values in the print files are mm/min and Kisslicer
wants mm/sec so be sure to divide anything you see in GCODE by 60 to get a
comparable KS setting)
XY Max Travel (All): 500 mm/sec
1st Layer print speeds:
Fast Precise
ABS 13 20
PLA 28 28
Rest Layer Print Speeds:
Fast Precise
ABS 54 26
PLA 58 16
Yes - The first layer print speed for ABS in Draft/Fast mode does appear to
be SLOWER than that used in the Normal/Precise mode. I'm not trying to
justify these values - just document them. Again, its really hard to see
any variation for INFILL speeds. There is some additional speed variation
in these files, but it does not appear to be anything striking and its hard
to tell why its being done...
I'll try and run some some actual PLA prints this weekend. However...
If you're having print problems (Popping/Voids/Puddles), PLEASE BE SURE you
have CubeIt integrated properly. (If you don't get a *.BFB.BAK file along
with your *.BFB file then CubeIt is not running at all as a post processor).
If you want to tweak your Prime/Suck/Purge commands you need to do this in
the CubeIt.ini file (not within KISSLICER)...
If you want to tweak your printer speeds, you should do this within
KISSLICER...
Based on my results, I don't believe that my problem with
popping/gaps/voids had anything to do with moisture in the filament. I
had this problem all through my model until I used the latest copy of
CubeIt to resolve it and now its COMPLETELY gone. Same filament, extruder,
etc. So, in my case, it had nothing to do with my filament and appears to
have been generated by inappropriate Prime/Suck settings sucking air back
into the extruder...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10811#msg10811>
« *Reply #373 on:* December 13, 2013, 11:14:40 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10811;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: bsmith19dot98 on December 13, 2013, 11:01:35 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10792#msg10792>
I should have clarified this in my post regarding the "blow holes" and the
bolts. I am essentially running CubeIt version 2.
I would recommend you use the latest version of CubeIt as it provides more
functionality and much better results. (although it works in a slightly
different manner).
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10830#msg10830>
« *Reply #374 on:* December 13, 2013, 11:28:16 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10830;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Are you using a heated build plate?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10833#msg10833>
« *Reply #375 on:* December 13, 2013, 11:30:49 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10833;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Yes
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10938#msg10938>
« *Reply #376 on:* December 13, 2013, 12:45:11 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10938;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
A heated bed is on my to do list one of these days.
What do you use to lubricate the slides?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10958#msg10958>
« *Reply #377 on:* December 13, 2013, 12:59:48 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10958;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
a very light coating of teflon or wd40
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10986#msg10986>
« *Reply #378 on:* December 13, 2013, 01:19:46 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=10986;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
I had not thought of teflon. I have not tried wd-40 even though Cubify
recommended it. I am used to much heavier and larger machinery and equally
heavy grease or way oil.
Our Cubex is actually our 2nd one. The first one came from England and had
shipping damage. Plus it was turning into a lemon. This one came from
South Carolina but the extruders had obviously been hot (for a while)
before. Maybe a demo unit. Anyway one bearing was squeaking a bit. I
tried a light instrument oil which did not take care of the squeak.
Silicone made it worse. Now I am running a light synthetic grease which
has finally quieted the bearing.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11020#msg11020>
« *Reply #379 on:* December 13, 2013, 01:41:41 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11020;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
I think you want to be very careful about what lube you use as it can also
attract dust and crap. I just put a little on the threads with a small
brush and then manually run the bed up and down a couple of times to
distribute it. A little goes a long way...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11029#msg11029>
« *Reply #380 on:* December 13, 2013, 01:46:28 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11029;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
You really need a heated bed if you are going to print with ABS. The
heated bed (with Kapton tape as a print surface) virtually eliminates any
warping of ABS parts. I did relocate the auxiliary Z-Sensor they sent
though as the new installation location and instructions were far from
optimal.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11049#msg11049>
« *Reply #381 on:* December 13, 2013, 01:59:42 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11049;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Lube - Agreed!
Bed - Thanks!!
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11053#msg11053>
« *Reply #382 on:* December 13, 2013, 02:01:51 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11053;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 13, 2013, 06:11:48 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10401#msg10401>
Thats *exactly* why I asked for the STL file, the type of material they are
using, and the style they are printing with. So I can reproduce the
problem environment. (I have PLA loaded in my first extruder so its not a
problem for me to switch materials and duplicate someone elses environment).
You're still missing the core concept. Stop thinking only from the software
point of view. In order to "duplicate someone elses environment", you would
have to have them ship you *a section of the material that they are using*.
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11057#msg11057>
« *Reply #383 on:* December 13, 2013, 02:04:36 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11057;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 13, 2013, 12:59:48 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10958#msg10958>
a very light coating of teflon or wd40
Teflon or instrument oil, yes. Silicone is good if it will play well with
the lubricant that is already in place. WD40 isn't really a great lubricant
that will stand up to pressure and high speed use.
« *Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 02:07:01 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11074#msg11074>
« *Reply #384 on:* December 13, 2013, 02:15:28 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11074;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Have you tried P1 in M228 yet?
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11077#msg11077>
« *Reply #385 on:* December 13, 2013, 02:16:38 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11077;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: PenskeGuy on December 13, 2013, 02:01:51 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11053#msg11053>
You're still missing the core concept. Stop thinking only from the software
point of view. In order to "duplicate someone elses environment", you would
have to have them ship you *a section of the material that they are using*.
Lets try the EASY stuff first, then we can worry about shipping stuff back
and forth if it doesn't play out...
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11088#msg11088>
« *Reply #386 on:* December 13, 2013, 02:24:32 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=11088;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: evanevery on December 13, 2013, 11:12:06 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg10805#msg10805>
Based on my results, I don't believe that my problem with
popping/gaps/voids had anything to do with moisture in the filament. I
had this problem all through my model until I used the latest copy of
CubeIt to resolve it and now its COMPLETELY gone. Same filament, extruder,
etc. So, in my case, it had nothing to do with my filament and appears to
have been generated by inappropriate Prime/Suck settings sucking air back
into the extruder...
I'd offer that, scientifically speaking, it *may* not have had anything to
do with filament. At this point there isn't enough data to pull a
conclusion and it just as easily could have been a coincidence. Yes, I know
you want to test other's models to try to get more data. (see the other
post) Looking at the issue, as it has been described by many users, it
really doesn't completely point to P/S. P/S very well may be a contributing
factor and I congratulate you on this effort. However, pops and voids in
the middle of a path would not point to P/S as being the only problem. At
the start of a layer, yes. In the middle of one, where the extruder should
long have reached a stable state, no. Please apply Occam's Razor in
considering this.
« *Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 02:26:52 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11121#msg11121>
« *Reply #387 on:* December 13, 2013, 02:49:59 PM »
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Quote from: evanevery on December 13, 2013, 02:16:38 PM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg11077#msg11077>
Lets try the EASY stuff first, then we can worry about shipping stuff back
and forth if it doesn't play out...
Agreed, as long as it yields meaningful data that isn't noise. It will form
a baseline for further tests. Personally, I like to choose the test that
will yield the most pertinent data first and refine down from there.
« *Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 02:52:52 PM by PenskeGuy* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg12492#msg12492>
« *Reply #388 on:* *Today* at 08:52:45 AM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=12492;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
I tried the new CubeIt version but get also some voids.
So I am back, running with the original Kisslicer and CubeIt and get great
prints with no voids or puddles (ABS and PLA).
I tweaked some settings in KS which seem to work well.
See attached pdf file with screen shots of all the settings. (also attached
settings in zipped file).
Those settings are for 0.25 layer. The 1.15 flow tweak, 0.59 extrusion
width and 0.3 infill overlap give me clean and accurate parts.
Also, I keep speeds for detailed parts at: 15/25/25 and 20/25/25 for less
detailed parts. If you go faster I find it is not as clean in some areas.
I am using cubeX filament that I keep stored in bags with extra desiccant.
Evanevery,
It would be great if Kisslicer would handle multishell parts and treat them
as joined (like for example the CubeX software, but that's the only thing
it does better). Also for example if you add in "helper disks" at the
bottom of a part on the platform, and the parts overlap, it also does not
treat them as joined.
Also, for new CubeX / Kisslicer users, it would be great if the BedCubX.stl
is included in the CubeIt zip file and the Bed Center x default is set to
-35, that would make it more plug and play. - Just a thought. - I attached
the .stl in the zip file below.
Kisslicer is great !
thank you!
[image: *] Kisslicer settings with and using the original CubeIt.pdf<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2748> (644.29
kB - downloaded 6 times.)
[image: *] CubeX_Kisslicer-CubeIt_12-14-2013.zip<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=689.0;attach=2749> (663.74
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« *Last Edit: Today at 09:05:49 AM by 1looooopy1* »
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Re: CUBEX <http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg13088#msg13088>
« *Reply #389 on:* *Today* at 03:46:05 PM »
- Quote<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=13088;topic=689.350;last_msg=13088>
Quote from: 1looooopy1 on *Today* at 08:52:45 AM<http://kisslicer.com/forum/index.php?topic=689.msg12492#msg12492>
I tried the new CubeIt version but get also some voids.
So I am back, running with the original Kisslicer and CubeIt and get great
prints with no voids or puddles (ABS and PLA).
I'm really at a loss here... I can NOT duplicate any Voids, Gaps, or
Puddles. Those are EXACTLY the items that were eliminated with the latest
version (v3) of CubeIt. So I really would suggest you make sure you have
the latest version integrated properly (Note that the INI file structure
had changed - maybe your running with the prior version INI file?) If your
seeing voids/gaps/puddles, I really believe you must not have CubeIt
integrated properly or are using an older INI file... I really would LOVE
for someone to prove me wrong on this though if it truly is NOT the case!
Anyway, I'm about to post another version (v4.0). I'm testing it right
now. I'll explain what I've found, and also why the newest version is
different:
I ran some test prints (CubeIt V3) using PLA, and although all my test
produced PERFECT prints (No Puddles, Gaps, or Voids), I was able to
reproduce a reported issue with the extruder skipping during the purge
cycle. I ran this a couple of times and noted that the extruder always
skipped on the SECOND purge (as it lowered the nozzle temp just after doing
the first layer). The first purge was fine, but the second purge skipped
the extruder a bit. (The print still turned out just fine) So I was off
comparing outputs from the native CubeX slicer to see what they were doing
differently...
I have noted that the material temps being suggested in this forum are VERY
DIFFERENT (lower) than what the native CubeX slicer uses! If our temps are
currently so much lower, this could explain why we saw some extruder
skipping when using exactly the same purge/prime/suck commands... Here is
a little table of the material temps I have seen being generated by the
native CubeX slicer:
Normal Speed Draft Speed
PLA First Layer 250 230
Rest Layers 205 215
ABS First Layer 280 280
Rest Layers 262 280
Even using the same Prime/Suck/Purge commands, we could certainly have some
extruder skipping with the lower temps we have been discussing (more
viscous material). The obvious solution to this would be to use material
temps more in line with what the Native CubeX Slicer does (Set These In
KISSLICER), or reduce the extruder rotation speeds (Set these in the M55x
commands In the associated blocks in the CubeIt.INI File).
Personally, I'm going to push my material temps up a little in KISSLICER.
However, given the wide range of temps we are potentially working with, and
with the possibility of the higher PLA temps actually exceeding some of the
lower ABS temps, the technique of declaring a threshold temp in the
CubeIt.ini file (to determine whether PLA or ABS is currently being
extruded) may no longer be valid. So, I've made some changes to the way
Version 4 of CubeIt determines PLA vs ABS for a particular extruder (so it
can swap in the proper "PSP" group from the INI File). V4 is still in
test, but I expect to post it tomorrow after I complete a few more
tests... Anyway...
The upcoming version of CubeIt no longer uses the THRESHOLD setting to
determine PLA or ABS for a particular nozzle. CubeIt now pre-processes the
KISSLICER print file and looks through the comments to read the material
names for each extruder. Kisslicer puts a lot of info in the print file
comments so this would make a more reliable method of determining an
extruder material. Two things need to be noted here:
1. With the newest upcoming version of CubeIt, you MUST leave the
KISSLICER COMMENTS ENABLED so CubeIt can read them and use them. (CubeIt
will ultimately discard all comments anyway as it makes the CubeX BFB file).
2. There will be two new Keys (ABS_KEY, PLA_KEY) in the CubeIt.ini file to
help determine if a material is ABS or PLA (from info in the KISSLICER
comments). Since you can name a material anything you want, we need to
search for some common substring in the material name to identify ABS or
PLA. By default, ABS_KEY="ABS" and PLA_KEY="PLA". So as long as you have
"ABS" somewhere in the name of your ABS material, CubeIt will know its
ABS. Same thing goes for "PLA". Hopefully, the default values will work
just fine as folks always have "ABS" somewhere in their ABS material name
and "PLA" somewhere in their PLA material name. (However, you can change
these keys if you want to...)
3. I also added a Version Check feature for the INI so CubeIt can confirm
that the structure and settings in its INI file are indeed appropriate for
the version of the executable being run. Error checking and notification
is more robust and there is also a summary screen showing extruder/file
info after the post processing is complete...
I'll likely be posting the new version (V4) tomorrow...
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