Bluntly, I see very little value in advertising KinkForAll in The Floating World's program guide. I think you and the world might get a lot more value out of your advertisement by donating the ad spot to, say, the Community-Academic Consortium for Research on Alternative Sexualities, if they haven't placed an ad already. I can help you reach out to someone at that organization to ask if they'd appreciate working with you to put an ad in the guide. Doing that could garner you a contact at CARAS as well as give them the much-appreciated publicity I know they're looking for.
That said, advertising KinkForAll is still really thoughtful and very kind. Thanks for the effort. :) You're right in saying that advertising isn't typical of KinkForAll since it really isn't necessary or even helpful and can, in fact, be damaging and unhelpful in many circumstances. I sincerely appreciate that you offered an explanation of simple good faith for why you want to take out an ad in TFW for KinkForAll. If you've already considered the potential ways it could both help and harm KinkForAll, then all I can say is thanks for the thought!
Call me skeptical, but I'd reconsider and offer the ad space to an organization or charity that would benefit more from it than KinkForAll would.
I have, in fact, considered several different organizations that could
benefit from advertising space, among them a number of nonprofit
That said, I chose, upon reflection, to give the space to KFA. As a
crowdsourced organization, I believe that we do stand to benefit from
using the space in a way that draws in a few more interested parties.
I also believe that the audience and community of TWF is made up of
enough disparate and open communities that doing so will speak to an
appropriately mixed audience.
I could spend my free time this fall flyering for the LGBTQ Center
here in New York, or volunteering there - a very worthy nonprofit
cause indeed. Instead, I hope that I will be spending it assisting to
unorganize the next KFANYC. As I give my time and my financial
donations to a movement I believe in, I chose to give this ad space as
I expect that as KFA grows we may begin to see more advertising
opportunities that do not represent a financial burden to events
through new channels and platforms, and I hope that we can continue to
embrace them (along with all good faith promotional activities) as an
intrinsic if small part of spreading the KFA model.
P.S. Typed on my mobile device, so please excuse any lack of clarity
as the inevitable result of thinking with one's thumbs.
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> Hi Maymay,
> I have, in fact, considered several different organizations that could
> benefit from advertising space, among them a number of nonprofit
I'm not surprised to hear you've thought things through. :)
> That said, I chose, upon reflection, to give the space to KFA. As a
> crowdsourced organization, I believe that we do stand to benefit from
> using the space in a way that draws in a few more interested parties.
> I also believe that the audience and community of TWF is made up of
> enough disparate and open communities that doing so will speak to an
> appropriately mixed audience.
I hope you'll pardon my continued skepticism that The Floating World is a "mixed audience." Even a cursory glance at the participating groups page shows a distinct lack of variety even in the logos of the groups themselves.
> I could spend my free time this fall flyering for the LGBTQ Center
> here in New York, or volunteering there - a very worthy nonprofit
> cause indeed. Instead, I hope that I will be spending it assisting to
> unorganize the next KFANYC. As I give my time and my financial
> donations to a movement I believe in, I chose to give this ad space as
> I expect that as KFA grows we may begin to see more advertising
> opportunities that do not represent a financial burden to events
> through new channels and platforms, and I hope that we can continue to
> embrace them (along with all good faith promotional activities) as an
> intrinsic if small part of spreading the KFA model.
> Sara Eileen
> P.S. Typed on my mobile device, so please excuse any lack of clarity
> as the inevitable result of thinking with one's thumbs.
Like I said, publicity is much-appreciated. And, reiterating, thanks for the thought.
Happy to talk it through with you further off-thread, as I don't wish
to hijack the KFA list for a discussion of TFW!
All others, please do ping me if you have any design ideas!
On 6/29/10, maymay <bitethea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Your skepticism is acknowledged and, respectfully, I disagree :).
> Considering the class list, previous precedent of attendee mixes at
> past events, and the event's stated mission (education and building
> community across boundaries) I think there will certainly be at least
> a few people at TFW who will appreciate learning more about KFA.
I think you misunderstood me, as I never said there wouldn't be people at The Floating World who will appreciate learning more about KinkForAll. But, in the succinct words of our generation, whatever.
> Happy to talk it through with you further off-thread, as I don't wish
> to hijack the KFA list for a discussion of TFW!
> All others, please do ping me if you have any design ideas!
I have a design suggestion: keep it simple. I think the flame-in-flame icon on a blue background with the text "KinkForAll.org" or maybe "wiki.KinkForAll.org/KinkForAll" on top of it would be a great advertisement, not just for TWF2010 guide but in a lot of of places, too. Front-loading an ad like this with anything more risks encouraging the kinds of assumptive reactions that fuels so much of my skepticism.
On Jun 30, 2010, at 9:27 AM, Gordon Olmstead-Dean wrote:
> So...that's the opinion of one voice. Since KFA is effectively organized along anarcho-syndicalist lines, it is worth commenting that I imagine a great number of the participants and presenters feel differently.
Different participants might feel differently? Well of course!
I'm surprised disagreements aren't more valued. (Well, actually I'm not. Contemporary culture seems to relish breeding a disrespect for diversity and so it's not surprising many people are pre-programmed to be primed for all kinds of hair-trigger reactions with regards to them.) If we are to actually have diverse perspectives and if we are to remain functional as a loosely-coordinated group, disagreements are to be expected and might even be a necessity, and I think they should be treated with as much respect, if not delight, as hearty agreement. And in either case, disagreement or not, internalizing Sara's "yes, and" attitude so disagreements don't impede our actions is a worthwhile exercise.
In other words, if everyone who was ever interested in working to promote more KinkForAll unconferences was only ever interested in doing so with a bunch of yes-people, I would hardly consider that "unorganization," it would certainly not engender diversity, and it would not be a do-ocracy where I felt having dissenting views mattered. None of those things, which I feel are more analogous to doctrinal attitudes than disagreement could ever be, are appealing to me. That's why I find attitudes like Sara's and mine really valuable; it's exactly the kind of self-empowered thinking I'm glad to see KinkForAll continues to exemplify above all else.
On Jun 30, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Sara Eileen wrote:
> I will definitely be going ahead with the ad, just as Maymay might continue to be skeptical (I don't wish to speak for him, obviously.) And hey - that's ok. Considered, thoughtful actions in line with the KFA spirit may look different to different people on the list, but we do our best and we roll with it :).
Yes, *exactly.* Of course I still have my skepticism, and so I'm even more interested in seeing what your final design looks like, Sara.
And also, Gordon, I hope you'll feel more comfortable doing more to support KinkForAll by acting on your own motivations. My own opinions and initiatives are just that: my own motivations. Again, if it wasn't clear, I encourage you to start, and share, your own.
> That way hopefully everyone […] will be willing to push their comfort zones by inviting people from outside of their direct communities.
Here is where my skepticism is most evident because (not only do I question the accuracy of calling The Floating World's audience "mixed") "inviting people from outside of [one's] direct communities" has been difficult for a lot of people, yet in my experience has proven the far more important and valuable thing to do. And, having been to a Floating World event, and knowing you quite well personally, Sara, I am hard-pressed to believe that TFW is "outside of [your] direct community." That doesn't make telling people there about KinkForAll a worthless endeavor, it makes it one for which I find getting an advertisement far less valuable.
 See reference  and most of my documented sex blogging experiences.
I'm surprised disagreements aren't more valued.
All your points are well-made, and well-taken. Thanks for offering me your feedback about my tone.
> With public projects personal interests are rarely at stake.
I should hope that is not the case here. In fact, if someone feels their personal interests are not at stake by participating in KinkForAll efforts, then I would (and have) encourage(d) them to spend their time elsewhere, just as I would do if they felt that way about their 9-5 job, their family, or any of their other endeavors. I hate it when I see people wasting their time investing themselves in things they have no strong personal interest in.
Now, do you have a design suggestion for, or anything else to say about, Sara's proposed advertisement? So far, I'm the only one who's offered her any input on the matter here. If you don't have any, perhaps it's time we continued our conversation elsewhere, if you're interested in speaking with me further about my tone. (A conversation, I hasten to add, I'm very amenable to having with you, but not in a thread on this list about Sara's KinkForAll advertising efforts.)
For me, the event started Wednesday morning and is still not over - we
are breaking the space today and I am without 'net access besides my
Blackberry. I realize you're frustrated, but let's please take this
off list. I assure you, my tardiness is not because of a lack of
respect for KFA principles.
The ad will go up when I'm back at my home computer.
Have a great Monday, all.
I hope you enjoy. Thanks to the folks who commented on it at TFW. Of course like all TFW files it is open for sharing and I would love to see people mod it/use it/remix it.
I sleep now. Have a great night.