Problem in F10

[Abhijit Mondal]

I avoid to use F10 because it have a big problem. When we install fedora 10 in a machine which have pre-installed Windows then it change MBR in such a way that next time when we want to reinstall windows, the windows boot-able disc does not work properly. The disc failed to in booting and machine goes to hang state. there is no easy solution of this problem.

It is a big fault of F10. that's why we prefer F8 than F10.

Is there any version of F10 which solve this problem?

--
Abhijit Mondal
4th Yr, CSE
Kalynai Govt. Engg. College
Kalyani

[Shakthi Kannan]

Hi,

--- On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Abhijit

Mondal<abhijit...@gmail.com> wrote:
| way that next time when we want to reinstall windows, the windows boot-able
| disc does not work properly.

\--

If Windows disc is not working, it has nothing to do with Fedora?

What are you trying to do? Give us the big picture.

SK

--
Shakthi Kannan
http://www.shakthimaan.com

[Abhijit Mondal]

It's the problem of fedora 10. I faced this problem several time. If it has nothing to do with fedora 10, then why should i use fedora10. I need GNU/linux and windows both for my study. and one more thing is there.. this problem is not in lower version of fedora and other flavor of GNU/linux. This problem is not with windows disc, because this problem can be solved when if we install Ubuntu 8.10. So it is the problem of F10.

If u have you any easy solution, then tell us, other wise don't blame other vendor?

[Shuvankar Sarkar]

I have also faced this problem. Some of my friend too.. All of them
including me have same problem in same condition. If we install Fedora
10 then preinstalled windows make some problem and then we can't boot
the windows cd. Is it any bug of Fedora10 or anything else?

On Jul 21, 12:23 pm, Shakthi Kannan <shakthim...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>

[Shakthi Kannan]

Hi,

--- On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Shuvankar Sarkar<son...@gmail.com> wrote:
| 10 then preinstalled windows make some problem and then we can't boot
| the windows cd.

\--

You are only stating your problem, but, not giving any outputs/error
messages to help see the issue!

What are you referring to as "can't boot"?

[Rohit Gupta]

On 7/20/09, Abhijit Mondal <abhijit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I avoid to use F10 because it have a big problem. When we install fedora 10
> in a machine which have pre-installed Windows then it change MBR in such a
> way that next time when we want to reinstall windows, the windows boot-able
> disc does not work properly. The disc failed to in booting and machine goes
> to hang state. there is no easy solution of this problem.
>

I have installed F10 and suffer no problems with windows disk. It
boots up very well and we can install windows normally.
As far as I have noticed, its a problem of automatic partioning. We
often don't do proper partioning and simply install GNU/Linux in free
space after deleting a drive. As a result, grub (boot loader) gets
loaded in secondary partition and it is forced primary. This should be
avoided and grub should be installed in a primary partition (may be in
a small drive of 100 MB).
I recommend partioning the hard disk before actual installation with a
live CD with Gparted and then install your OS.
while installing GNU/Linux, when the partioning comes go to custom
partioning. Choose the edit option after selecting the drive and then
set mountpoint as desired.

This should solve your problem.

> It is a big fault of F10. that's why we prefer F8 than F10.
>
> Is there any version of F10 which solve this problem?
>

Thanks.

--
Regards:
Rohit Gupta
KGEC

[Abhijit Mondal]

Thank u rohit for ur suggestion.
I will try next time with manual partition.

[fedora]

At which installation phase of windows, the step hangs. During windows installation, do, you delete the partition on which windows resides and recreate it?

I doubt the issue is with your partition table and not with MBR.

 

Sunil Datta

---

From: kge...@googlegroups.com [mailto:kge...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Abhijit Mondal
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:44 AM
To: kge...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {glug kgec} Problem in F10

[Abhijit Mondal]

My problem is at the time of booting of windows CD. on very begining stage, it go to hang.
it does not go to partitioning stage. and i'm sure that its the problem of modifing MBR by F10. this is the problem of all of our friends. for this problem I hv to avoid F10. i want to use F10. but I cant...

[fedora]

Ok, if you think this is an mbr problem, use win98 bootable and clear your mbr usng fdisk /mbr. As you said it hangs at the very begining stage, this means the previous xp still exist, so you can also fix mbr by entering into recovery console.

 

To recovery the mbr using xp bootable see this link: http://opensourcenuts.com/articles/fixmbr.php

 

After this, update the status of your problem.

 

Sunil Datta

---

From: kge...@googlegroups.com [mailto:kge...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Abhijit Mondal

Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:35 PM
To: kge...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {glug kgec} Re: Problem in F10

[Abhijit Mondal]

Ya, Xp is exist. but I want to reinstall this. because it may not work properly. At that time I cannot delete all partition, because i hv to save my data. but XP bootable cd does not work at this point. It's a bug problem. And you give me a solution. I hv aone also. But both two R not very easy and user friendly.

And one qsn to F10 team.... why they make such OS, which doesn't permit to install Windows..?

Abhijit Mondal
4th Yr, CSE
Kalynai Govt. Engg. College
Kalyani

[Rohit Gupta]

On 7/21/09, fedora <fed...@opensourcenuts.com> wrote:
>
> At which installation phase of windows, the step hangs. During windows
> installation, do, you delete the partition on which windows resides and
> recreate it?
> I doubt the issue is with your partition table and not with MBR.
>
> Sunil Datta
>

i have came across this problem many a times on my friends computers.
The Windows XP CD message comes "press any key to boot from CD.." and
when we do that after few flickers, the screen hangs. The blue screen
dosn't come and hence the installation program.
The main probem is due to presence of ext3 partitions. when we delete
them it works fine. It is also due to grub installation extended
patitions. As far as I have noticed, if we have proper partioning like
grub is installed in primary partition, windows is installed on the
very first partition (i.e, starting sectors), the XP CD dosn't cause
problems. I have ext3 partitions but the XP CD still works.

[Rohit Gupta]

On 7/21/09, Abhijit Mondal <abhijit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And one qsn to F10 team.... why they make such OS, which doesn't permit to
> install Windows..?
>

I think, its not the F10 team to be blamed, it is our (newbies) need
to have user friendly installations (like just installing on free
space). There's solution to these problems as well. F10 dosn't take
your freedom to install windows, it grants you many freedoms.

Abhijit da please use in-line or bottom Posting like I have done and
remove unnecessary lines while posting in any mailing list. you can
refer to the rules of mailing list in this presentation:
http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/mailing-list-etiquette.pdf
It creates healthy environment and prevents confussion.0

>
> Abhijit Mondal
> 4th Yr, CSE
> Kalynai Govt. Engg. College
> Kalyani
>

Thanks.

Regards:
Rohit Gupta
KGEC

[fedora]

Abhijit

 

Please write in clear words, few things are difficult to read. One thing, you said "At that time I cannot delete all partition, because I have to save my data." The problem lies here. How you deleted the partitions and which partition you deleted, the partition on which xp resides. This is an issue with xp, if you delete any primary partition when secondary partition still exists, xp will create problem.

 

One more thing, in your previous post you said "When we install fedora 10 in a machine which have pre-installed Windows" This means that now during installation you are using recovery cds you created from pre-installed windows, is it so?

 

So, Now I can notice two issue:

1) you are using recovery cds created from pre-installed windows

2) you have deleted primary partition, when secondary partition still exists. [ in this case windows 98 bootable will also fail to delete secondary partition and even will not be able to create primary partition]

 

So, the solution I can make out is, boot from fedora, make a partition using fdisk and mark it fat32 using fdisk, make it active, because xp require active paritition to boot, format it using mkfs.vfat or mkdosfs and then try to install xp but not with the cd you created using preinstalled windows.

 

update the result.

 

Please backup your important data before experimenting.

 

Sunil Datta

 

---

From: kge...@googlegroups.com [mailto:kge...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Abhijit Mondal

Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 12:42 AM
To: kge...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {glug kgec} Re: Problem in F10

[Abhijit Mondal]

Thank u Rohit...
this all R solution. but not very easy for all. May be i can manage it, but still it is not userfriendly. And u tell about ext3 format, but in other version of Fedora also hv ext3 format, but there is no any problem.

I need a user friendly and time saving solution.

 


Abhijit Mondal
4th Yr, CSE
Kalynai Govt. Engg. College
Kalyani

[Rohit Gupta]

On 7/21/09, Abhijit Mondal <abhijit...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank u Rohit...
> this all R solution. but not very easy for all. May be i can manage it, but
> still it is not userfriendly. And u tell about ext3 format, but in other
> version of Fedora also hv ext3 format, but there is no any problem.
>
> I need a user friendly and time saving solution.
>

Again a problem. you answered again in Top posting which is considered
bad. when you do so, you leave a long trail of strings after your
reply. this means if anyone who is reading your ans for the first time
(not following), will have to read the whole email first and then if
you replied for a particular line, he/she will have to guess and
figure it out.
We should not even use short forms [this is all R solution] or SMS
language. it avoids confussion.

[Indranil Das Gupta]

HI,

On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 1:29 AM, Abhijit Mondal<abhijit...@gmail.com> wrote:

> this all R solution. but not very easy for all. May be i can manage it, but
> still it is not userfriendly. And u tell about ext3 format, but in other
> version of Fedora also hv ext3 format, but there is no any problem.
>
> I need a user friendly and time saving solution.

Reminds me of what a wit once said to a comment like yours... someone
was complaining that Unix wasn't user-friendly (compared to other
options out there)... the wit in question had replied back - "Unix is
user-friendly all right! It's just choosy about its friends"

enjoy!
-idg

[Abhijit Mondal]

I am trying to motivate myself to GNU/LINUX. I am not expert. That's why i'm trying to find user-friendly solution. and I am not telling that linux is not user-friendly. I am telling that the solution for my (and my friends) problem is not user-friendly.

Any way, how can i contact with F10 team directly?

-

[Shuvankar Sarkar]

Yes Rohit, your point seems to be logical. It may be for the automatic
partitioning. But it happens in F10 only. I am now using F8 without
any problem. F8 is alright but in case of F10 what is the problem??

On Jul 21, 1:24 pm, Rohit Gupta <rohit.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/20/09, Abhijit Mondal <abhijit.man...@gmail.com> wrote:> I avoid to use F10 because it have a big problem. When we install fedora 10

[Indranil Das Gupta]

Hi,

On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Abhijit Mondal<abhijit...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snipped>

> I am trying to motivate myself to GNU/LINUX. I am not expert. That's why i'm
> trying to find user-friendly solution. and I am not telling that linux is
> not user-friendly. I am telling that the solution for my (and my friends)
> problem is not user-friendly.

Aah! you seem to have finally got the concept of top-posting is bad
etiquette (as pointed out by Rohit before), that's *good* :)

> Any way, how can i contact with F10 team directly?

http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-help

hth
-idg

[Abhijit Mondal]

Thank you sir...

[Shakthi Kannan]

Hi,

--- On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Abhijit

Mondal<abhijit...@gmail.com> wrote:
| I am telling that the solution for my (and my friends)
| problem is not user-friendly.
|

| Abhijit Mondal
| 4th Yr, CSE

\--

What you were looking for is a GUI solution. It has nothing to do with
'user-friendliness' as how you have been posting repeatedly. A console
is a highly powerful interface, and is thus user-friendly. Just
because you find it difficult to use, doesn't mean the solution is
bad.

As an "engineer" one shouldn't complain about 'GUI-friendliness'.

[Rangeen Basu]

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Abhijit
Mondal<abhijit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I avoid to use F10 because it have a big problem. When we install fedora 10
> in a machine which have pre-installed Windows then it change MBR in such a
> way that next time when we want to reinstall windows, the windows boot-able
> disc does not work properly. The disc failed to in booting and machine goes
> to hang state. there is no easy solution of this problem.

Never see this happen when the windows is on the first partition. If
you install linux in the first partition and then try booting with
windows xp cd , it will never work, though a vista dvd will.

--
Regards
Rangeen Basu Roy Chowdhury
Fedora Ambassador
sher...@gmail.com

[Indranil Das Gupta]

Hi,

On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Rangeen Basu<sher...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Abhijit
> Mondal<abhijit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I avoid to use F10 because it have a big problem. When we install fedora 10
>> in a machine which have pre-installed Windows then it change MBR in such a
>> way that next time when we want to reinstall windows, the windows boot-able
>> disc does not work properly. The disc failed to in booting and machine goes
>> to hang state. there is no easy solution of this problem.

> Never see this happen when the windows is on the first partition. If
> you install linux in the first partition and then try booting with
> windows xp cd , it will never work, though a vista dvd will.

It's painful to see people, especially Comp Sci Engg graduates assume
that they "understand and know" how windows work as an OS and do a
compare-and-contrast study with GNU/Linux. In reality, they do not
even bother to read what Microsoft has to saw about the matter, far
less know about the issues at hand. Abhijit is just a single case of a
greater wrongness with the entire system on engineering education.

Abhijit, its always the student who has to bootstrap his/her knowledge
at graduate level you are supposed to learn on your own. The role of a
teacher is merely to guide you in the right direction. So, its you who
have to study.

+1 to rangeen, you said it right! :)

From http://support.microsoft.com/kb/313348

"How to partition and format a hard disk by using Windows XP Setup program"

<quote>
"Additional notes

Before you can install an operating system such as Windows XP, you
must first create a primary partition on the first physical hard disk
(Disk 0) on your computer. Then, you can format a file system on that
partition to create what is called the System partition."

Or, you can create a separate partition for the operating system on
any physical hard disk. This is known as the Startup partition. The
System partition on Disk 0 can also be used as a Startup partition.

</quote>

the bottomline is that if you want the windows bootloader to manage
your boot process, the system partition on Disk 0 to be __owned__ by
Windows

-idg

[Shakthi Kannan]

Hi,

--- On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Indranil Das

Gupta<ind...@gmail.com> wrote:
| It's painful to see people, especially Comp Sci Engg graduates assume
| that they "understand and know"

\--

I am not sure if it is the 'age' problem, but, the general 'I know
everything' mentality exists, when they seldom know anything in the
first place. Sad, but true!

There are very rare exceptions though.

[Rohit Gupta]

On 7/21/09, Shuvankar Sarkar <son...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes Rohit, your point seems to be logical. It may be for the automatic
> partitioning. But it happens in F10 only. I am now using F8 without
> any problem. F8 is alright but in case of F10 what is the problem??
>

Sorry to say but when I used F8, I knew nothing.
But I think this is not the lone problem with F10.

P.S: please stop top posting.

[fedora]

> On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Abhijit
> Mondal<abhijit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I avoid to use F10 because it have a big problem. When we install
> > fedora 10 in a machine which have pre-installed Windows
> then it change
> > MBR in such a way that next time when we want to reinstall windows,
> > the windows boot-able disc does not work properly. The disc
> failed to
> > in booting and machine goes to hang state. there is no easy
> solution of this problem.
> Never see this happen when the windows is on the first
> partition. If you install linux in the first partition and
> then try booting with windows xp cd , it will never work,
> though a vista dvd will.

Sorry, But in my case, I have tried windows first linux later and vice versa
and it worked both ways.

sd

[Swagato Paul]

Just a thought. How is the partitioning scheme being done while installing Fedora? Are you deleting the existing NTFS partition and consuming the four primary partition slots of MBR (i.e., are you creating three primary ext3 partitions and one extended partition)? Maximum of four primary partitions are a limitation of MBR. In that case, while trying to install Windows without first deleting any one primary partition, may not allow the install. If you plan to install Windows later, try creating one vfat partition as a primary one while installing Fedora. Once Fedora is installed, try installing Windows again. I have not checked it now, of course, this is just my guess, pls check to confirm.

Swagato

---

Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8.

[Abhijit Mondal]

Hi,
    Thank you swagato.
I am giving my hard disc partition table...

[root@one ~]# fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 80.0 GB, 80026361856 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9729 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00470047

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1   *           1        1785    14337981    7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda2            1786        3060    10241437+   7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda3            3061        5610    20482875    7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda4            5611        9729    33085867+   f  W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/sda5            5611        8415    22531131    7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda6            8416        8440      200781   83  Linux
/dev/sda7            8441        9729    10353861   8e  Linux LVM
[root@one ~]#

as per rohit faced this problem and find a proper solution, i request him to tell what to do now....
thank you

Abhijit Mondal
4th Yr, CSE

[sunil datta]

> > > I avoid to use F10 because it have a big problem. When we install
> > > fedora 10 in a machine which have pre-installed Windows
> > then it change
> > > MBR in such a way that next time when we want to reinstall windows,
> > > the windows boot-able disc does not work properly. The disc
> > failed to
> > > in booting and machine goes to hang state. there is no easy
> > solution of this problem.
> > Never see this happen when the windows is on the first
> > partition. If you install linux in the first partition and
> > then try booting with windows xp cd , it will never work,
> > though a vista dvd will.
>
> Sorry, But in my case, I have tried windows first linux later and vice versa

> and it worked both ways..

>
> sd
>
> Just a thought. How is the partitioning scheme being done while installing Fedora? Are you deleting the existing NTFS partition and consuming the four primary partition slots of MBR (i.e., are you creating three primary ext3 partitions and one extended partition)? Maximum of four primary partitions are a limitation of MBR. In that case, while trying to install Windows without first deleting any one primary partition, may not allow the install. If you plan to install Windows later, try creating one vfat partition as a primary one while installing Fedora. Once Fedora is installed, try installing Windows again. I have not checked it now, of course, this is just my guess, pls check to confirm.
>
> Swagato
>

Hi Swagato,

Its long back, but as far as I remember, I used RHEL, and RHEL used
two partitions one for boot and other for lvm, in lvm necessary
partitions were created and rest of the space was available for xp.
And in that I can create at least on primary partition, as you can
have max 4 partitions and after rhel was installed only two slots were
consumed.

As far as mbr is concerned, I took a copy of mbr using dd command
before installing windows. After installing xp I edited boot.ini and
placed the following line at the end in the file boot.ini
c:\boot.iso="Redhat Enterprise Linux 4.0"
I also copied the backup of mbr which was named boot.iso in c:\

And at the end I was able to use xp boot manager to boot xp and linux.
You can also use linux boot manager, but in that case you need to
recover your grub and edit grub.conf for xp entry.

The way you said, create vfat partition during fedora installation is
also logical and will work.


sd

[Rohit Gupta]

> as per rohit faced this problem and find a proper solution, i request him to
> tell what to do now....

I don't use the CUI partion editor (fdisk). I use gparted.
If you are still having problems, I can help you personally in your
mess. I am also in hostel.

Cheers.
Regards:
Rohit Gupta
KGEC

[Abhijit Mondal]

Thank you swagato for ur suggestion. I am partially understand, because i dont know RHEL.  But i think it need to DELETE all partition. But it not possible now. because I dont want to loose any data. But next time when i will delete all of my disc partition i will do this with your suggestion.  than you once again..


Ok rohit I will meet u at clg...