Some sharing of personal experience
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Jonathan Fine
Nov 24, 2021, 7:14:39 AM11/24/21
to keybr.com
Hi
First a bit about myself, and then some sharing of experience. I hope it's helpful, or at least interesting.
Nearly two weeks ago (Saturday 13 November) I got an new ergonomic keyboard (to replace my previous one). This led me to want to learn to touch-type. For about a week I using typing.com, and then a random search led me to keybr.com, which I now use most days. (By the way, I didn't complete the training at typing.com. I did most of 'Learn the Keys'.)
Now for my present practice. I made good progress with keybr.com, until I got to 'P'. There I found that I was making many mistakes on keys that I thought I'd previously mastered. Also, I found progress slow. Then I had an idea. Practice is good, as long as you're practising success. But I found that I was practising an perhaps reinforcing errors. Time for a rethink.
Somehow I felt my past history, and perhaps the idea that I'd mastered the first 6 keys 'ENITRL' (or LINTER) was holding me back. Also, perhaps I needed to improve my basic practice and technique to go well beyond 'P'. And I read on this group the use of anonymous mode.
So I started a new practice, on Monday as I recall. Each day start with a clean sheet, no history. Do this by opening an incognito window. And they type until I've proved something to keybr.com.
Today it took me 10 minutes for it to allow me to go beyond LINTER, or in other words add 'S' as the current key. Yesterday it to me 30 minutes to persuade keybr.com to offer me 'M' as the current key. And it was somewhat painful, with errors in LINTER keys.
The rest of my practice today will be more practice (in the same incognito window) until I get another 6 letters (SAUODY), and am offered 'C' as the new key. This might take me 15 minutes.
Previously I've found C a difficult key. Perhaps I need to be solid on the first 12 keys before I can incorporate C into the mix, without regressing on the earlier keys. The idea, that it's a mistake to continue practice new keys when the error rate rises, has been a strong influence on me. Instead, go back to learn better the keys already done.
By the way, I've no experience of learning to play a musical instrument. There may be similarities here.
with kind regards
Jonathan
Jonathan Fine
Nov 25, 2021, 12:07:02 PM11/25/21
to keybr.com
Hi
Here's my results for today (and yesterday) starting from scratch. I find it interesting that I'm really stuck on P, and I need to focus on improving my performance there. I've found accuracy a big problem, and it's related to my hands not securely returning to the home row.
Jonathan
===
Thu 25 Nov: 09:50: Zero to S offered as new
Total Time: 00:04:36
Total Lessons: 9
Top Speed (wpm): 58
Average Speed (wpm): 49.5
Thu 25 Nov: 10:15: S offered to P offered
Total Time: 00:24:41
Total Lessons: 41
Top Speed (wpm): 58
Average Speed (wpm): 41.7
Thu 25 Nov: 1430: P offered to P 0.99
Total Time: 00:55:54
Total Lessons: 82
Top Speed (wpm): 58
Average Speed (wpm): 37.1
===
Wed 24 Nov: 10:30 Zero to S offered as new key.
Total Time: 00:10:04
Total Lessons: 18
Top Speed (wpm): 54.4
Average Speed (wpm): 44.9
Wed 24 Nov: 13:30: S offered to P offered
Total Time: 00:21:20
Total Lessons: 36
Top Speed (wpm): 54.4
Average Speed (wpm): 42.3
===
[END]
Dzintars Klavins
Nov 25, 2021, 12:46:18 PM11/25/21
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Will jump in, and also will share my experience ... after couple days of learning Colemak layout ... there is definitely something wrong with Keybr's algorithm in particular how the letter sequence is built up for those artificial words. I already can type ~18-20 wpm on Monkeytype with full English 10K dictionary words, but in Keybr i just fail on simple letter R+S sequence. I can't really explain what exactly is wrong there... but the drop is astronomical. When i stuck at some letter, the easiest way to get past it is just give up at typing speed and accuracy and to focus just on the speed how fast that particular letter is pressed. That will ruin the overall metrics, but you instantly will get the Confidence level up to 1 which will get you to the next letter. Just this single workaround means there is some issues with Keybr algorithm.
Also... IMHO it is bad to not giving option for user to pick the training letters. Drilling the very same letter for days is not effective at all. But once you add few complementary letters, the finger rolling become more natural and the previous challenger letter become a light breeze to type.
Also... IMHO it is bad to not giving option for user to pick the training letters. Drilling the very same letter for days is not effective at all. But once you add few complementary letters, the finger rolling become more natural and the previous challenger letter become a light breeze to type.
When i was training Qwerty, i found Keybr helpful just for initial home row basic drilling. Once i learned the basic key positions i found Monkeytype more pleasant experience to train on. I was training English 450K dictionary which gives you pretty long and complex words + punctuation and numbers.
My primary goal was to train touch-typing as a programmer (special characters). The speed was just... like a secondary or tertiary goal and even then... i was not chasing 100 wpm. For my daily job 50-60 wpm is more than enough, because it doesn't matter how fast i can type the function. The logic matters.
I also just bought custom ergonomic keyboard and along with that i decided to learn Colemak.
So... after all... Keybr is really nice idea which i like pretty much, but... definitely not a go-to solution for me.
On top of that... this forum seems kinda dead.
Hope i did not sound like ranting. :)
My primary goal was to train touch-typing as a programmer (special characters). The speed was just... like a secondary or tertiary goal and even then... i was not chasing 100 wpm. For my daily job 50-60 wpm is more than enough, because it doesn't matter how fast i can type the function. The logic matters.
I also just bought custom ergonomic keyboard and along with that i decided to learn Colemak.
So... after all... Keybr is really nice idea which i like pretty much, but... definitely not a go-to solution for me.
On top of that... this forum seems kinda dead.
Hope i did not sound like ranting. :)
Jonathan Fine
Nov 26, 2021, 7:09:05 AM11/26/21
to keybr.com
Hi
Here's the results of today's practice. In brief, from scratch I get to W is 1 (and still practised). Starting with P, I set up a webcam pointing to the keyboard, and displayed it on my monitor, under the keybr lesson and progress screen.
I did something similar when using typing.com, in order to break the habit of looking down at my hands and keyboard. And to protect the habit of a stable posture looking forward and the monitor. By the way, I use a 40 inch UHD TV as a 4K monitor, which occupies most of my visual field.
Today's new concept is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprioception, also known as kinaesthesia. It arises from special neurons to give a representation of body position, movement and acceleration. Our hands and fingers are, of course, part of our body. The word was introduced by Charles Scott Sherrington in 1906.
This is relevant because the classic "key your fingers on the home row" amounts to ensuring that your hands know where they are, and so can more reliably find the next key. It seems to me that when typing with the webcam displayed on the monitor, the peripheral vision gives information that helps me know where my hands are on the keyboard.
I've done a search for: proprioception "touch typing". I was particularly moved by this artcle: https://multiplesclerosis.net/living-with-ms/touch-typing-affected-hands.
Tomorrow I might repeat today's from-scratch exercise, hoping to get a better result.
with kind regards
Jonathan
Jonathan Fine
Nov 26, 2021, 7:11:03 AM11/26/21
to keybr.com
Oops: Here's the results I forgot to post.
===
Fri 26 Nov: 10:05: Zero to S offered as new
Total Time: 00:05:01
Total Lessons: 10
Top Speed (wpm): 55.6
Average Speed (wpm): 50.1
Fri 26 Nov: 10:15: S offered to C is 1 (and still practised)
Total Time: 00:24:19
Total Lessons: 42
Top Speed (wpm): 55.6
Average Speed (wpm): 42.5
Fri 26 Nov: 11:05: C is 1 (and still practised) to P is offered
Total Time: 00:27:07
Total Lessons: 47
Top Speed (wpm): 55.6
Average Speed (wpm): 42.7
Fri 26 Nov: 11:15: P is offered to B is offered (done with webcam on keyboard)
Total Time: 00:34:14
Total Lessons: 59
Top Speed (wpm): 55.6
Average Speed (wpm): 42.4
Fri 26 Nov: 11:30: B is offered to W is 1 (and still practised) (done with webcam on keyboard)
Total Time: 00:49:17
Total Lessons: 83
Top Speed (wpm): 55.6
Average Speed (wpm): 41.5
Note: At close keys P, V, C have confidence 0.5, 0.78 and 0.8 respectively.
===
Jonathan Fine
Nov 27, 2021, 8:09:53 AM11/27/21
to keybr.com
Hi
Today's statistics. I find that they help me measure my progress, and draw attention to problems. It seems that about 50 minutes of typing spread across the day (giving me about 80 lessons) is my daily limit. It seems that P is vulnerable to regression as I add keys. It might be related to posture and in particular how I hold and place my hands. I'd welcome some pictures of hand position when I make mistakes, or am hesitating before pressing a key.
Jonathan
===
With webcam showing the keyboard on screen.
Sat 27 Nov: 9:35: Zero to S offered as new
Total Time: 00:03:39
Total Lessons: 6
Top Speed (wpm): 47.6
Average Speed (wpm): 41.3
Sat 27 Nov: 9:45: S offered to C offered
Total Time: 00:07:15
Total Lessons: 12
Top Speed (wpm): 47.6
Average Speed (wpm): 41.6
Sat 27 Nov: 10:40: C offered to P offered
Total Time: 00:14:45
Total Lessons: 24
Top Speed (wpm): 47.6
Average Speed (wpm): 40.3
Sat 27 Nov: 11:05: P offered to B offered
Total Time: 00:18:48
Total Lessons: 30
Top Speed (wpm): 47.6
Average Speed (wpm): 39.4
Sat 27 Nov: 12:15: B offered to W offered
Total Time: 00:34:19
Total Lessons: 55
Top Speed (wpm): 47.6
Average Speed (wpm): 39.4
Sat 27 Nov: 12:38: W offered to F offered
Total Time: 00:51:23
Total Lessons: 81
Top Speed (wpm): 48.4
Average Speed (wpm): 38.9
At close confidence levels P, C, B are 0.23, 0.71, 0.88 respectively
[END]
Jonathan Fine
Nov 29, 2021, 2:50:00 PM11/29/21
to keybr.com
Hi
Here's my progress for today. Unwisely, I spent 66 lessons starting with and not finishing B. My own fault for now quitting earlier, but a lesson count field in the lesson header might be useful.
Some conclusions.
1. Once practiced starting from scratch is quick, and so hardly a significant waste of time.
2. A more efficient way of learning new or troublesome letters would be most helpful.
3. At my present stage, don't go for more than 15 minutes without a substantial break.
4. [Not shown by stats] Recognise correlation between mental state and typing accuracy and speed.
with kind regards
Jonathan
Mon 29 Nov: 10:10: Zero to A offered as new
Total Time: 00:01:04
Total Lessons: 2
Top Speed (wpm): 49.8
Average Speed (wpm): 47.3
Mon 29 Nov: 10:14: A offered to C offered
Total Time: 00:04:02
Total Lessons: 7
Top Speed (wpm): 49.8
Average Speed (wpm): 43.9
Mon 29 Nov: 10:20: C offered to P offered
Total Time: 00:06:23
Total Lessons: 11
Top Speed (wpm): 49.8
Average Speed (wpm): 43
Mon 29 Nov: 10:25: P offered to B offered
Total Time: 00:07:43
Total Lessons: 13
Top Speed (wpm): 49.8
Average Speed (wpm): 41.9
Mon 29 Nov: 10:35: B offered to B going between 0.92 and 0.98
Total Time: 00:49:28
Total Lessons: 79
Top Speed (wpm): 49.8
Average Speed (wpm): 38.6
I did this without break. This was a mistake. A timer or time limit would be helpful
Mon 29 Nov: 19:15: B around .095 to K offered W at 0.95
Total Time: 00:52:22
Total Lessons: 84
Top Speed (wpm): 49.8
Average Speed (wpm): 38.8
Mon 29 Nov: 19:21: K offered to
Total Time: 01:07:48
Total Lessons: 108
Top Speed (wpm): 49.8
Average Speed (wpm): 38.8
[END]
Jonathan Fine
Nov 30, 2021, 1:29:39 PM11/30/21
to keybr.com
Hi
I found using the largest font layout very helpful for focus on accuracy.
Jonathan
====
16:30 START
All done with the largest font (and otherwise minimal) interface layout. Not using the webcam to see my hands on the monitor.
===
16:30: Scratch to S offered
Total Time: 00:04:55
Total Lessons: 9
Top Speed (wpm): 54.6
Average Speed (wpm): 46
16:40: S offered to C offered
Total Time: 00:08:15
Total Lessons: 15
Top Speed (wpm): 54.6
Average Speed (wpm): 45.7
16:45: C offered to G offered
Total Time: 00:10:37
Total Lessons: 19
Top Speed (wpm): 54.6
Average Speed (wpm): 44.6
===
16:50: END
17:35 START
===
17:35: G offered to B stuck at around 0.98
Total Time: 00:35:44
Total Lessons: 60
Top Speed (wpm): 54.6
Average Speed (wpm): 40.9
Note: I felt I was mostly accurate and in a good place, but not judged quick enough to progress. P and C at 0.65 and 0.83 confidence.
===
18:08 END
[END]
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