time & zone sync

[Bill Lober]

This is a long thread, but mostly about time, so I changed the name.  I think there’s a part of this discussion that needs to be archived for later discussion, if it can’t be addressed now.

 

What I see written below is:

 

1)      Time zone issues are no problem if all servers/clients are set to the same timezone.

 

I think that’s OK for now (but with the dreaded phrase “for now”). 

 

We should open a longer term issue to determine if we can remove any dependency on the client time & zone being set correctly. 

 

2)      It’s not clear to me that having a dependency on the client time being correct or synchronized confers any benefit ( the only thing I can think of is some vaguely remembered requirement for SSL/TLS?) and my VN experience shows that there is some risk.  The less configuration needed for the client, the better.

 

Bill

 

From: kenyaemr-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:kenyaemr-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Casey B. Iiams-Hauser
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 8:10 AM
To: Darius Jazayeri
Cc: Rowan Seymour; Mike Davisson; kenyaemr-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Testing script including screen shots for what should be happening

 

Hi guys,

 

Thank you for all the discussion. We have to make sure everything is on east Africa time, this will solve the issue, so Anikate is working on adding some lines to the build script to set all kenyaemr servers to east Africa time and adds a chron job to try to update the date and time automatically every so often to help mitigate this. I think with that and the relatively easier fix of ensuring the workstations are set with the proper date and time we should be pretty golden on avoiding this bug in the future. Speaking of the future. Any time we demo between Kenya and the international date line, we will need to ensure that we change the time zone temporarily on the demo workstation to avoid these issues. 

 

Best,

Casey

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 12, 2013, at 7:31 AM, "Darius Jazayeri" <djaz...@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh, right, that UI is actually part of the Kenya EMR module. I was thinking that was coming from OpenMRS core.

 

So I agree, changing that to drop seconds and just create visits with day + hour + minute makes sense.

 

-Darius

 

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Rowan Seymour <rowans...@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe easier to just not capture seconds for the visit start time ?

 

-Rowan

 

On 12 February 2013 17:24, Darius Jazayeri <djaz...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Mike,

 

To the best of my knowledge, every time we have a date/time field with a default value, it is populated from the server date/time.

 

Rowan,

 

You're correct about that possible kind of error where visit.start has seconds, and encounter.datetime does not. I just saw it on Mirebalais in the last couple days, and haven't thought of a good solution yet. Perhaps we can just add a seconds dropdown next to the h + m dropdowns? (They're hidden on all our forms, AFAIK.)

 

-Darius

 

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Rowan Seymour <rowans...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm still not quite exactly where this fails. The registration check-in / check-out functionality doesn't give me any problems. Can someone replicate this and send a screenshot or more detailed description of how it happened? 

 

-Rowan

 

On 12 February 2013 17:03, Mike Davisson <mik...@uw.edu> wrote:

Hi Darius,  The problem occurs when the visit is started, and the date/timea are set,  there is no check that the date/time ( it is both the date and time)  are synced with the local PC date and time.  There are no errors when this time is set,  later on when one goes to close the visit or save a record,  both a date and time are set and are then checked to the current date/time (probably from PC) and then against the start of visit date/time.  The current date/time check fails.  Mike

 

 

---

From: Darius Jazayeri [djaz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:50 AM
To: Mike Davisson
Cc: Rowan Seymour; kenyaemr-...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Testing script including screen shots for what should be happening

 

There's one other possible cause of an error like this.

 

If an HTML Form captures a date but no time, e.g. <encounterDate default="today"/> instead of <encounterDate default="now"/>, and you try to enter this form for the same day as its visit, it will typically fail because, for example, visit.start = today at 9am, but encounter.datetime = today at midnight.

 

I think we were careful about this, but maybe someone can verify that the triage form is set up right?

 

-Darius

 

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Mike Davisson <mik...@uw.edu> wrote:

I agree with  your assessment is correct, and as long as the server is the same time zone as the workstations there is no problem.  We are trying to get the test server time set to Nairobi time to eliminate the testing problems that are occurring.

 

Mike 

---

From: kenyaemr-...@googlegroups.com [kenyaemr-...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Rowan Seymour [rowans...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 5:49 AM
To: kenyaemr-...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Mike Davisson
Subject: Re: Testing script including screen shots for what should be happening

OpenMRS doesn't have any timezone functionality that I know of. It's always been assumed that clients are on the same timezone as the server. I'm assuming that we don't have any problems when that is the case... right? Or is there a visit time vs encounter time bug that I'm missing here?

 

If the former, then this would not be a showstopper bug as it won't effect a deployment to a Kenyan site as long as the server is configured for Kenyan time. 

 

We should configure our dev servers on a consistent timezone, and when we're using them, we'll have to pretend we're in that timezone. 

 

-Rowan

 

On 12 February 2013 00:25, Bill Lober <lo...@uw.edu> wrote:

This reminds me – I experienced a time-related bug adding forms to a visit when in VN – I think because a form date/time was a day ahead of a visit time.

 

I forgot to tell Casey about this one when he and I spoke this AM, and now I can’t really recall the issue, but under the circumstances I was trying to demo (“Let me show you how you add a TB Screening form”) – it was a showstopper.  (Could not save a form, even though the visit was open correctly, and my intent was pure)

 

I know it’s frustrating for me to be vague, but I’m glad I saw this email from Mike, which reminded me.  The behavior I recall was that it worked on day, but not some time later, leading me to think it was related to the time of day on the client/time of day on the server, and the international date line.

 

I suggest a brief brainstorm by a limited number of people (Rowan, Casey perhaps?) to think through what happens when the client time zone != server time zone (ahead, behind, different day, etc.).  Second thought experiment (quite likely to arise) is what happens when client (or server) has the wrong time.  This may be an example of over validation – we don’t want to prevent system use by a user if an admin has incorrectly set the system time, especially on a client system.

 

Bill

 

From: Mike Davisson
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 2:11 PM

To: Steven Wanyee; Casey B. Iiams-Hauser; CHLOE D. WATERS

Cc: 'George Owiso'; Bill Lober; Jan Flowers; Jen Antilla; 'Patrick Odawo'; RowanS...@gmail.com

Subject: RE: Testing script including screen shots for what should be happening

 

A bit of clarification  the test, dev and demo servers are set to GMT,   and not either Seattle or Nairobi time.  

---

From: Mike Davisson
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 2:08 PM
To: Steven Wanyee; Casey B. Iiams-Hauser; CHLOE D. WATERS
Cc: 'George Owiso'; Bill Lober; Jan Flowers; Jen Antilla; 'Patrick Odawo'
Subject: RE: Testing script including screen shots for what should be happening

Hi Steven,  there is a problem with the Kenya EMR using the server time which is set to GMT as the default, and then later on using the PC time which is set to local time.  Whenever asked for a time, especially a  checking make sure to update the time to your local time.  I found this bug to be frustrating until I figured out why it is a problem.  

 

We are trying to get the time on the server set to your time (in Kenya) so the defaults should not be a problem.

 

Will review the other issues you found and add tot he list, for discussion.

 

 

 

Thanks   Mike

---

From: Steven Wanyee [swa...@itech-kenya.org]
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 12:19 PM
To: Mike Davisson; Casey B. Iiams-Hauser; CHLOE D. WATERS
Cc: 'George Owiso'; Bill Lober; Jan Flowers; Jen Antilla; 'Patrick Odawo'
Subject: RE: Testing script including screen shots for what should be happening

Mike et al

 

My test observations and experience below;

 

Registration Form

·         Standardize the case for all drop down items? E.g. in registration form, there are lists for Marital status, Occupation and Education

·         Next of kin contact and Next of kin address may not be very obviously distinct – (generally, what is the possibility of adding tips when user hovers over label)

·         For Step 15, the “Now” button is not clickable

 

Triage

·         The “Pill count field” is odd...how else can we improve this?

·         “Encounter Datetime Should be after the visit date” – this validation is incorrect because encounter date can = visit date (error message need “datetime” separated in error message)

·         Testing cannot continue beyond this point because of the error message in prior bullet point

 

From: Mike Davisson [mailto:mik...@uw.edu]
Sent: 10 February 2013 21:22
To: swa...@itech-kenya.org; Casey B. Iiams-Hauser; CHLOE D. WATERS
Cc: George Owiso; Bill Lober; Jan Flowers; Jen Antilla; 'Patrick Odawo'
Subject: Testing script including screen shots for what should be happening

 

Hi All,  listed is the google doc link for the PDF file that contains the testing script for assigned testers to follow.  I would suggest a copy be printed for each tester, assign the tester a user id and have them follow the script.  All comments/concerns/bugs should be written on the page where the problem is noticed. 

 

We will need to figure out how to review the comments and decide what should go in PT.

 

This is still a little rough, but hopefully a starting point.

 

Thanks Mike

 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-zEDullVBW-VDdiVnpGMTcwZkE/edit

 

 

 

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[Rowan Seymour]

You're missing the bit where we mentioned a time related problem that we're actually aware of - if you go too quickly from checking in a patient to entering a form, there's a chance that you won't be able to save the form without adding a minute to the encounter time: https://www.pivotaltracker.com/story/show/42296135

I'm really curious to know if that is the problem that Mike and Casey have mentioned, and what Ezekiel reported https://www.pivotaltracker.com/story/show/42584039

I think we should be able to fix this in less than an hour if someone wants to add this to the must-fix list

-Rowan

[Steven Wanyee]

Rowan:

 

I experienced this with Ezekiel and I suggest that it gets fixed.

[Bill Lober]

I did miss this.  Maybe that was the same problem I experienced, and I just thought it was a client/server time mismatch.

 

When I (vaguely) recall something from 8 days ago, that is basically what I was trying to do – check a patient in and then add a form.

 

Would you expect a mismatch of time or timezones between client and server have any effect on being able to save a form?

 

I think the message I got was something like “form can’t be saved with older date than encounter” (paraphrased) which is what led me to think it was client/server timezones.

 

Bill

 

 

From: Rowan Seymour [mailto:rowans...@gmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:45 AM
To: Bill Lober

[Casey B. Iiams-Hauser]

Dear all,

 

I logged into the test.kenyaemr.org server and reset the time zone to EAT, now the system shows the proper time, but openMRS is still displaying GMT times in the forms. I rebooted and have found the same issue. Does OMRS use the system’s time zone and sets it somewhere in OMRS? Or does it try to match up the date/time with the server at a particular interval? This of course won’t be an issue with the new servers (once the build script has been updated), but it would be nice to know.

 

Best,

Casey

 

From: kenyaemr-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:kenyaemr-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lober
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:49 AM
To: Rowan Seymour
Cc: Casey B. Iiams-Hauser; Darius Jazayeri; Mike Davisson; kenyaemr-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: time & zone sync

 

I did miss this.  Maybe that was the same problem I experienced, and I just thought it was a client/server time mismatch.

 

When I (vaguely) recall something from 8 days ago, that is basically what I was trying to do – check a patient in and then add a form.

 

Would you expect a mismatch of time or timezones between client and server have any effect on being able to save a form?

 

I think the message I got was something like “form can’t be saved with older date than encounter” (paraphrased) which is what led me to think it was client/server timezones.

 

Bill

 

 

From: Rowan Seymour [mailto:rowans...@gmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:45 AM
To: Bill Lober

[Darius Jazayeri]

I don't think OpenMRS explicitly sets the time zone anywhere. Perhaps restarting tomcat now that you've set the system time zone will solve the problem?

-Darius (by phone)

[Rowan Seymour]

I've just added a line of code to display the server timezone on the admin home page:

This will be in the pre-release version that we push back to the test server

[Casey B. Iiams-Hauser]

That's fantastic, thank you Rowan!

Casey Iiams-Hauser, MIA                  
Informatics Implementation Specialist 

International Training & Education Center for Health (I-TECH)
Department of Global Health, University of Washington
901 Boren Avenue, Suite 1100, Seattle WA 98104

Office: +1 (206) 616-8425

Cell: +1 (206) 473-7544
Skype: caseynth
http://www.go2itech.org

I-TECH is a global network that supports the development of a skilled health work force and well-organized national health delivery systems, in order to provide effective prevention, care, and treatment of infectious disease in the developing world.