Re: [Kent-Birders]

[Dere...@aol.com]

Well they certainly take the dead mice that I throw up on to the garage roof after trapping them. As for "much maligned", leave it out, they can clear gardens of nesting songbirds and deserve all the bad press and treatment that they get.

 

Derek F.

 

In a message dated 26/04/2016 16:57:04 GMT Daylight Time, kent-b...@googlegroups.com writes:

All,

We have a small (and getting smaller) group of field mice that come to our feeders. This year the local Magpies have discovered them and have become very adept at catching them. They sit on the fence and, when the mice emerge for a few seconds to steal some seed dropped by the birds, they pounce at lightening speed, grab one, stun it on the fence rail, and fly off, presumably to the nestlings. Amazingly quick for such a large bird. BWP mentions "occasional" small vertebrates as Magpie prey but this pair seems to have taken a liking to our mice! Not the most loved of birds but one of my favourites and, I think, much maligned. Still I may have to step in if this carries on for too long!

Has anyone else seen this type of behaviour?

Paul





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[Paul Larkin]

Derek,

I seem to get into this discussion whenever Magpies are mentioned but fortunately all the studies show that Magpie predation has no effect on songbird populations. One may not like them eating little Robin redbreast but that's what Magpies do, I like bumble bees but I don't dislike bee eaters . One needs to try no to take a human perspective on such things.

Paul

[Kevin Thornton]

Hi Paul,

I think you know Birkhead's monograph sits permanently by my computer: in a section on food hoarding where in one study 3% of cached food items (9) were was 'vertebrate carrion' (including 'shrews, wood mice, rabbit and a blackbird')

"Magpies also catch, kill and eat vertebrates from time to time. There are occasional records of them killing frogs, lizards, snakes, bats and moles, and they take small mammals such as rodents and small birds more frequently..."

"Of 351 magpie gizzards collected in Hungary, 59 (17%) contained small mammal remains... it is important to note that these values overestimate the numbers of vertebrates actually killed; some could have been eaten as carcasses..."

"On one occasion I saw a Magpie on the ground and running about in a highly erratic manner. My first thought was that the bird was having an epileptic fit. Then, when I viewed the magpie in a telescope, I could see it was actually chasing a mouse or a vole, which was frantically trying to escape by darting around in circles. They (sic) prey was eventually caught, held to the feet and killed by several hefty blows from the bill..."

Kevin
You can guess what upset me the most reading that- fFinding the need to use (sic) when quoting a Poyser! :-)

[Dere...@aol.com]

Paul,

 

I'm not particularly interested in nationwide stats on Magpies and songbird populations, what I do know is that when thieving Magpies regularly ransack the birds nest in my garden, they reduce localy the populations of birds that I admire and love to see and hear, and spend a lot of time and effort trying to attract. Therefore because Magpies do what Magpies do, I do what some humans do, I put things into perspective and manage the Magpie population.

 

Regards

 

Derek

[norman mccanch]

I once inherited a couple of rather elderly laying hens,  a rather ordinary laying hybrid, who both hunted, caught and ate wood mice and bank voles in their chicken run ( and on occasions, even Hose sparrows!! They showed full 'velociraptor tendencies'. but your description of the Maggie chasing a mouse like an epileptic fit brought it all back to me!!
Norman
 

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From: dunn...@hotmail.co.uk
To: kent-b...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Kent-Birders]
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 19:58:39 +0100

[Bo Beolens]

Really dangerous line of argument... imagine yourself to be a grouse moor owner... and substitute grouse for songbirds and hen harriers for magpies....

bo

DerekF47 via Kent Birders

26 April 2016 at 20:21

Paul,

 

I'm not particularly interested in nationwide stats on Magpies and songbird populations, what I do know is that when thieving Magpies regularly ransack the birds nest in my garden, they reduce localy the populations of birds that I admire and love to see and hear, and spend a lot of time and effort trying to attract. Therefore because Magpies do what Magpies do, I do what some humans do, I put things into perspective and manage the Magpie population.

 

Regards

 

Derek

 

In a message dated 26/04/2016 19:32:34 GMT Daylight Time, kent-b...@googlegroups.com writes:

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[Dere...@aol.com]

Bo,

I guess that you can expand most arguments in that way but in many cases there are legal limits. While you can understand grouse moor owners frustration, which in a much larger way, is similar to mine, they are railing against a legally protected bird, I was simply referring to an acknowledged pest species.

 

Derek F.

[Bo Beolens]

I could say a lot more, but the legality of the action is actually not relevant, its all about individuals taking local action without taking into account the wider picture.

The corollary is that we take no action against grey squirrels when at least trying to eliminate them would be good for birds as well as red squirrels. Why, mostly because they are cuddly in the publics eye and the fatalistic 'it won't make any difference' and 'its an impossible task' argument. We know the latter to be untrue as the Chinese almost made a 'pest' bird extinct that used to be numbered in at least tens of millions, ditto passenger pigeon and buffalo).

Surely we should all look hard at the overall science before taking individual action.

bo

DerekF47 via Kent Birders

27 April 2016 at 05:26

Bo,

I guess that you can expand most arguments in that way but in many cases there are legal limits. While you can understand grouse moor owners frustration, which in a much larger way, is similar to mine, they are railing against a legally protected bird, I was simply referring to an acknowledged pest species.

 

Derek F.

 

In a message dated 26/04/2016 22:20:00 GMT Daylight Time, fatb...@gmail.com writes:

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[Dere...@aol.com]

"We" is too generic for my liking Bo. I and others like me, will and do, take action against Grey Squirrels when and where possible.

 

Derek

[Bo Beolens]

...given that Anglesea has reds... couldn't there be an elimination campaign on Sheppey followed by re-introduction of reds... I actually saw a red squirrel in Kent in my youth wouldn't it be great to have them back! I imagine that given the marshes around the entrance to the bridges it would be relatively easy to stop greys getting back on the island.

bo

DerekF47 via Kent Birders

27 April 2016 at 10:16

"We" is too generic for my liking Bo. I and others like me, will and do, take action against Grey Squirrels when and where possible.

 

Derek

 

In a message dated 27/04/2016 09:03:52 GMT Daylight Time, fatb...@gmail.com writes:

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[Dere...@aol.com]

Unfortunately Bo, you're about 15 years behind the times. Up to about 15 years ago, to the best of my knowledge, Sheppey had never, ever, had a population of Grey Squirrels. Then, in ones and two at various parts of the Island they began to appear, clearly some mis-guided pratt was releasing them. Fortunately, very slowly, they have begun to breed and are spreading but so far, not noticeably, except for not far from me, which could see action taken. As for reds, Sheppey really hasn't got enough, if any, favourable woodland for them.

[Dere...@aol.com]

Unfortunately, in this fast reducing countryside, species that would normally have had miles of habitat to roam in and therefore not be a problem, are now being concentrated into smaller areas and as a result through no fault of their own, are becoming noticeable pests.

Trying to protect the eggs and chicks of say, just 25 pairs of Red-Listed Lapwings from the combined threats of Crows, Magpies, Harriers, Herring Gulls, Lesser BB Gulls, that can easily clean up that whole year's breeding potential, is bloody difficult when you get people supporting the rights of those far commoner pest, to do so.

 

Derek

 

In a message dated 27/04/2016 12:58:01 GMT Daylight Time, kent-b...@googlegroups.com writes:

Bo,

You beat me to it! Just the extension of the argument I was going to make.

Again "an acknowledged" pest species is another human perception, and of course there are those pushing for Buzzard and Sparrowhawk to be designated the same. I can understand Derek's attitude as he likes his songbirds but please don't suggest there is any logic to it, I can't stick Puffins and Avocets but I understand those who do (kind of :-))

Paul

[Bo Beolens]

I wouldn't fight for the rights of many species where they are a) abundant and b) where they can be shown to be a problem or part of it for a species that needs protection. On the other hand where there is no defensible conservation criteria they should be left to nature's equilibrium.

bo

DerekF47 via Kent Birders

27 April 2016 at 13:16

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[Dere...@aol.com]

Seems fair enough to me.

 

Derek