Layer adhesion?

Sharon Mehl

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Jun 17, 2015, 10:47:55 AM6/17/15

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I finally got a large tardis to print. I was originally having problems where it would just stop printing a large object and think it was done...homed and shut off the temperature. Now I got the whole thing to print ... and my layer adhesion is awful.

I am using ABS on a glass build platform with 3 layers of hair spray (first print with this new adhesion). Hot end preheated to 220 and bed to 100.

It was printed with a "brim" it did start pulling up a little bit in the corner. I cannot seem to make a big print like this FULLY adhere to the surface. I have tried blue painters tape, glue stick, and 3 layers of hair spray on a newly cleaned bed. Smaller prints will stick really well.

Not sure why it is having a hard time with the layer adhesion and it seems to be only in the large prints. Using a filament that I seem to have good prints with on smaller prints.

I have my Oni in a clothes closet (well technically it's a filament & printer closet) ... there is not a vent in the closet. I started the print and didn't enter the closet to get the print until an hour after it finished.

What do I do at this point to troubleshoot? I really thought finally I would have this printed for Maker Faire!

Thank you.

Sharon

Bryan Boettcher

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Jun 17, 2015, 10:49:48 AM6/17/15

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Welcome to ABS! That is what ABS does.

Use PLA or PETG :)

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Michael Overstreet

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Jun 17, 2015, 11:04:18 AM6/17/15

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Try a large cardboard box over the printer.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 17, 2015, at 9:49 AM, Bryan Boettcher <bryan.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

Welcome to ABS! That is what ABS does.

Use PLA or PETG :)

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Sharon Mehl <sharon...@gmail.com> wrote:

I finally got a large tardis to print. I was originally having problems where it would just stop printing a large object and think it was done...homed and shut off the temperature. Now I got the whole thing to print ... and my layer adhesion is awful.

I am using ABS on a glass build platform with 3 layers of hair spray (first print with this new adhesion). Hot end preheated to 220 and bed to 100.

<IMG_20150617_093918.jpg>
<IMG_20150617_093910.jpg>

It was printed with a "brim" it did start pulling up a little bit in the corner. I cannot seem to make a big print like this FULLY adhere to the surface. I have tried blue painters tape, glue stick, and 3 layers of hair spray on a newly cleaned bed. Smaller prints will stick really well.

Not sure why it is having a hard time with the layer adhesion and it seems to be only in the large prints. Using a filament that I seem to have good prints with on smaller prints.

I have my Oni in a clothes closet (well technically it's a filament & printer closet) ... there is not a vent in the closet. I started the print and didn't enter the closet to get the print until an hour after it finished.

What do I do at this point to troubleshoot? I really thought finally I would have this printed for Maker Faire!

Thank you.

Sharon

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Bryan Boettcher

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Jun 17, 2015, 11:21:17 AM6/17/15

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I've had that kind of stuff work before, but once it goes to cool you'll end up with (sometimes loud) delamination afterwards.

I've had the parts sitting on the table, and just spontaneously they go BANG and a bunch of layers have separated.

Michael Overstreet

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Jun 17, 2015, 11:25:02 AM6/17/15

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Interesting ? Once my printer is tuned in I get great results with ABS.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 17, 2015, at 10:20 AM, Bryan Boettcher <bryan.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've had that kind of stuff work before, but once it goes to cool you'll end up with (sometimes loud) delamination afterwards.

I've had the parts sitting on the table, and just spontaneously they go BANG and a bunch of layers have separated.

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Michael Overstreet <moverst...@gmail.com> wrote:

Try a large cardboard box over the printer.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 17, 2015, at 9:49 AM, Bryan Boettcher <bryan.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

Welcome to ABS! That is what ABS does.

Use PLA or PETG :)

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Sharon Mehl <sharon...@gmail.com> wrote:

I finally got a large tardis to print. I was originally having problems where it would just stop printing a large object and think it was done...homed and shut off the temperature. Now I got the whole thing to print ... and my layer adhesion is awful.

I am using ABS on a glass build platform with 3 layers of hair spray (first print with this new adhesion). Hot end preheated to 220 and bed to 100.

<IMG_20150617_093944.jpg>

<IMG_20150617_093918.jpg>
<IMG_20150617_093910.jpg>
It was printed with a "brim" it did start pulling up a little bit in the corner. I cannot seem to make a big print like this FULLY adhere to the surface. I have tried blue painters tape, glue stick, and 3 layers of hair spray on a newly cleaned bed. Smaller prints will stick really well.

Not sure why it is having a hard time with the layer adhesion and it seems to be only in the large prints. Using a filament that I seem to have good prints with on smaller prints.

I have my Oni in a clothes closet (well technically it's a filament & printer closet) ... there is not a vent in the closet. I started the print and didn't enter the closet to get the print until an hour after it finished.

What do I do at this point to troubleshoot? I really thought finally I would have this printed for Maker Faire!

Thank you.

Sharon

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Sharon Mehl

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Jun 17, 2015, 9:37:30 PM6/17/15

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Sounds like I need to invite Michael over for a home cooked dinner & drinks if he will tune my printer. ;-)

Twice I got a print to stick well to the bed...so well it took a chunk out of the borosilicate glass each time.

Thanks!

Sharon Mehl

Add me on LinkedIn:

www.linkedin.com/in/sharonmehl/

Bryan Boettcher

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Jun 17, 2015, 10:00:44 PM6/17/15

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Michael's Up uses a different blend of ABS than the rest of us do...

Julian's had good luck with the Hatchbox stuff, it's some blend of ABS+???

But really ... PETG or PLA

Sharon Mehl

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Jun 17, 2015, 10:30:22 PM6/17/15

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well MakerGeeks in Springfield has their filament on sale for $25 ... I ordered two rolls and couldn't get the 3rd roll to add to the cart...their yahoo store drives me nuts...it totally sucks. I had NEVER tied any store or any app to my facebook but I didn't have much choice there....tried ordering the other day on mac, on windows, and on Debian ... all different computers and it just was an awful experience...so glitchy. Tried again tonight to order the PLA and can't take OUT of the cart something I already ordered! but just found out that they have it on smile.amazon.com (benefitting CCCKC) and it's only $3 more but uses the free PRIME shipping so I will get it sooner than from their website....so ordering their blue PLA since IC3D doesn't have their blue PLA out and in their store yet.

Thanks!

Sharon Mehl

Add me on LinkedIn:

www.linkedin.com/in/sharonmehl/

Rusty C

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Jun 17, 2015, 10:31:59 PM6/17/15

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please take me off what ever list I am on to receive stupid stuff like this.

Thanks

From: sharon...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 21:30:02 -0500
Subject: Re: [kc-fabricators] Layer adhesion?
To: kc-fabr...@googlegroups.com

Sharon Mehl

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Jun 17, 2015, 10:43:38 PM6/17/15

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Rusty...you have to unsubscribe yourself...instructions are at the bottom of every e-mail on any google groups...but I have cut and pasted it here for your convenience

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Luis E. Rodriguez

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Jun 18, 2015, 8:30:15 AM6/18/15

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You can tune yours way more than an UP, closed-source remember? The software is better but still...

So why do you need to print in ABS? Just curious.

Luis E. Rodriguez

Are you a Maker?

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 8:37 PM, Sharon Mehl <sharon...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sharon Mehl

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Jun 18, 2015, 8:35:59 AM6/18/15

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I have been told that it is better for parts you need to move ...not as brittle as PLA. I'd rather print in PLA ...it doesn't stink. Family complains of the smell of PLA. Also I print in ABS when it is something that might be subjected to heat...as in a car.

Sharon

Luis E. Rodriguez

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Jun 18, 2015, 10:14:28 AM6/18/15

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That would be the only consideration I would have, heat. But instead of ABS I have resorted to using Nylon, PET+ etc... I hate ABS too. I can print it but really haven't come across a need yet. I don't even have any at work. Aside from heat, I've printed some strong PLA parts. But we have kids dropping stuff on concrete so not much stands up to that in any material.

Luis E. Rodriguez

Are you a Maker?

GregY

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Jun 22, 2015, 4:45:52 PM6/22/15

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I have struggled with this as well and I finally solved it on my Thing-O-matic by controlling the heat table and the atmosphere inside my machine. I made lexan covers and added an extra heat sensor for the inside air to make sure I was up to temp before I started printing. I also found it was important to use thermal paste on the heater and sensor to get good temp readings on my nozzle and have a heating element that reacted fast enough that I didn't get huge temperature shifts in the extrusion. On my original head, I found I could push plastic through faster than the heat controller could manage and I would get cold welds like yours. Also my Z step didn't make sure to push the extruding material into the previous layer far enough.

It was a tuning/balancing act that would make Cirque du Soleil jealous......

Greg

Sharon Mehl

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Jun 23, 2015, 1:56:18 AM6/23/15

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Greg are you going to be at maker faire with your printer? If so I would really like to see what you have done.

Did you also get teeny beads of filament in your prints? Seems like if one thing gets fixed, another problem crops up.

I had had plans to enclose the printer but that didn't happen ....yet.

Thanks so much!

Sharon
Add me on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonmehl/

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GregY

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Jun 23, 2015, 10:01:07 PM6/23/15

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Sorry but I'm not going this year. I have to be out of town for work.

I have seen the tiny beads, which I've attributed to moister in my ABS. I keep it dry and in a tupperware container now and have seen them any more.

Greg

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