128k ISDN access on Karoo..
Mike Myers
Mike
The Great Green Arkleseizure
Customer: Is dual bonding goin to be available on Karoo Xtra?
KC employee: It is being considerd, but it is available on Karoo
Standard
Customer: It's been available on standard for over 6 months, when is it
going to be on Xtra?
KC employee: It's being considered
Customer: What timescales?
KC employee: I don't know
Customer: What about ADSL
KC employee: It is being considered
Customer: What timescales?
KC Employee: I don't know sir
Customer: I have been told by a reliable source that ADSL will NEVER be
available
KC employee: Who told you that?
Customer: One of your collegues. You have withdrawn from ADSL, even for
business use
KC employee: It is being looked at as a possibleity in the future
Customer: Who by?
KC employee: One of my collegues
Customer: Could I speak to him/her then?
KC employee: They're on a lunch break right now, I'll get them to ring
you. What's you telephone number?
Customer: xxxxxx
Customer waiting 2 weeks, with still no call. Decides on another tack..
Dials 602100
Customer: Can you tell me the cost of 0844 numbers please?
KC employee: Certainly sir 1p per minute
Customer: I dial Karoo on an 0844 number and it's unmetered
KC employee: Yes sir that's correct, for Karoo
Customer: It's shown seperate on my account for Karoo ats a (from
memory) £17:01 charge
KC employee: That's correct sir, we have to do that by law
Customer: Why, if it's a seperate charge, can I not dial another ISP on
an 0844 number and use it for unmetered?
KC employee: It's only available for Karoo
Customer: So... I can only have Karoo as an unmetered ISP, meanwhile
anyone outside of Hull can have any ISP they want on unmetered 0844
access via BT?
KC employee: Yes
The moral of the story is to read KC's reply to OFTEL in 1998. They
promised broadband access, WHERE IS IT?
They said they had invested a considerable amount in the infrastructure.
If BT were allowed access, this would mean they would not see a return
on their investment. In other words there is ADSL, but they want to make
the profit from it. They want to use it for TV access. There is no way
they are gonna make a profit from it. They stopped businesses from
having ADSL, what chance do we have.
I look forward to the local loop being unbundled. I'd go straight to BT.
Get ADSL and use Demon!!!!!!!!
Don'#t hold your breath for dual bonding or ADSL. Why? because KC want
to make ALL of their money back from you. You are trapped, they know and
now you know it. Enjoy the monopoly. I don't blame Karoo for this. It
lies with KC.
TGGA
The Great Green Arkleseizure
I have always been willing to pay a reasonable amount for any internet
access I use. I'm currently on Anytime. I wanted to subscribe to a BT land
business, unmetered account at about £50 per month (dual bonded). Since I'm
not allowed to do that (thanks to the momoloy) I await being cut off by KC.
When this happens we'll find out how quick OFTEL can get involved, since
KC are not prepared to offer the same service within the local loop.
Once more KC employees of the year:-
I am preparied to pay, but despite my 3 emails and about 20 phone calls,
you have still NOT even bothered to call me.
TGGA
BORG
I was on Demon up untill last week.
I changed to Karoo for the simple reason that it is the only way I can get
unmetered access within the 01482 area.:-(
If I could get unmetered access on 0844 numbers the way BT customers can I
would change immediately, And I mean that, This second, No hesitation what
so ever:-)
For me Demon are the superior ISP out there and I could use the full 128kbps
capability of my ISDN card instead of just half of it.
I`ve also got the ADSL KIT tv system on order, Still waiting for that as
well, Well over 6 weeks now, All you get are excuses, I even got a crossed
line, Someone calling themselves `EasyClaims`?
I don`t know, Never heard of them, Got them when calling the KIT exnquiries
line.
I mean if they can`t get their own service lines working right, What the
hell chance have any of us got in getting a decent service from them?
I hate companies that screw people, Like KC, BT(to some extent) NTL
(definately), And yes you guessed MicroSoft(yaaaaaay).Oh and not forgetting,
Every government on the planet :-))))) I hate politicians.
But anyway I thought that full unmetered access to all ISPs` was on the
cards for next year, January 2001 I think?
But do you think that KC will have to follow suit and apply unmetered access
to any ISP even ones outside the 01482 area? ie 0844 ?
Borg
The Great Green Arkleseizure wrote in message
<3A2935B1...@viper.karoo.co.uk>...
~Tom
> I`ve also got the ADSL KIT tv system on order, Still waiting for that as
> well, Well over 6 weeks now,
Sky Digital had a 6 week waiting list
> I hate companies that screw people, Like KC, BT(to some extent) NTL
> (definately), And yes you guessed MicroSoft(yaaaaaay).Oh and not
forgetting,
> Every government on the planet :-))))) I hate politicians.
Is there anyone you do like? ;-)
> But anyway I thought that full unmetered access to all ISPs` was on the
> cards for next year, January 2001 I think?
It is, just because it says unmetered, it doesn't mean it IS unmetered.
Freeserve have just brought out an unmetered deal for £12.99. They will
throw you off if you "abuse the system", just like what everyone did to KC.
No ISP can afford to give people 24/7 access for under twenty-odd quid.
Karoo offer a REAL unmetered deal, which is realible from what i've seen in
the past few months.
> >>They stopped businesses from
> >> having ADSL, what chance do we have.
Are you sure? as kingson have just announced how well their Business
adventures are going. They've also said they're going to make 2 businesses
to dehial with DSL, one to make it and one to provide the tariffs, from what
i gather. They say their future is broad band technology so i would like to
see what you're basing this on, if you could show me a link or something
please. Plus, Torch, their business broad band company is doing great,
increasing about 12-13% in profits every quarter.
> >> Don'#t hold your breath for dual bonding or ADSL.
I wouldn't hold your breath for dual bonding either because someone on this
newsgroup mentioned ADSL was replacing it.
~Tom
Stu B
<snipped>
> just like what everyone did to KC.
What does this refer to ???? Please explain.
atb
Stu B
Please remove "nospam" if replying by e-mail. thankyou.
The Great Green Arkleseizure
to maximise their profit from us, before they allow you to dial out of the city
on unmetered or have DSL. They want to use ADSL for TV. I actually doubt that
they have the bandwidth to allow computers ADSL.
Pete
BORG wrote:
> I agree wholy with what your saying.
> I was on Demon up untill last week.
> I changed to Karoo for the simple reason that it is the only way I can get
> unmetered access within the 01482 area.:-(
> If I could get unmetered access on 0844 numbers the way BT customers can I
> would change immediately, And I mean that, This second, No hesitation what
> so ever:-)
> For me Demon are the superior ISP out there and I could use the full 128kbps
> capability of my ISDN card instead of just half of it.
> I`ve also got the ADSL KIT tv system on order, Still waiting for that as
> well, Well over 6 weeks now, All you get are excuses, I even got a crossed
> line, Someone calling themselves `EasyClaims`?
> I don`t know, Never heard of them, Got them when calling the KIT exnquiries
> line.
> I mean if they can`t get their own service lines working right, What the
> hell chance have any of us got in getting a decent service from them?
> I hate companies that screw people, Like KC, BT(to some extent) NTL
> (definately), And yes you guessed MicroSoft(yaaaaaay).Oh and not forgetting,
> Every government on the planet :-))))) I hate politicians.
> But anyway I thought that full unmetered access to all ISPs` was on the
> cards for next year, January 2001 I think?
> >> they are gonna make a profit from it. They stopped businesses from
> >> having ADSL, what chance do we have.
> >>
The Great Green Arkleseizure
>
> It is, just because it says unmetered, it doesn't mean it IS unmetered.
> Freeserve have just brought out an unmetered deal for £12.99. They will
> throw you off if you "abuse the system", just like what everyone did to KC.
> No ISP can afford to give people 24/7 access for under twenty-odd quid.
> Karoo offer a REAL unmetered deal, which is realible from what i've seen in
> the past few months.
Yes they do. DSL is 24/7 fixed. I've been offered business accounts on
unmetered quad bonding ISDN.
>
>
> > >>They stopped businesses from
> > >> having ADSL, what chance do we have.
>
> Are you sure? as kingson have just announced how well their Business
> adventures are going. They've also said they're going to make 2 businesses
> to dehial with DSL, one to make it and one to provide the tariffs, from what
> i gather. They say their future is broad band technology so i would like to
> see what you're basing this on, if you could show me a link or something
> please. Plus, Torch, their business broad band company is doing great,
> increasing about 12-13% in profits every quarter.
>
Yes, I'm sure. I do actually work for a business. Odd that. I even tried for a
business account. KC's future is in making a profit from use before BT can.
This is a company, the only aim of a company is to make a profit. They probably
don't have the bandwidth out of Hull. Maybe they have ATM in Hull, and they
should have, but they're buggest link is to Torch at Leeds.
>
> > >> Don'#t hold your breath for dual bonding or ADSL.
>
> I wouldn't hold your breath for dual bonding either because someone on this
> newsgroup mentioned ADSL was replacing it.
>
> ~Tom
And the date for this is NEVER. Ring and ask for the dat, I did. I'm waiting
for a reply. They won't even give me a month, I've waited patiently since
Karoo started for ISDN dual bonding. They've had ADSL since 1998. 2 years
I think that the test is long enough. They got the fanfare out to say that they
were ahead of BT, so where is it now that BT are rolling to customers?
TGGA
The Great Green Arkleseizure
> On Sat, 2 Dec 2000 20:44:04 -0000, "~Tom" <i...@te.spam> wrote:
> <snipped>
>
> > just like what everyone did to KC.
>
> What does this refer to ???? Please explain.
>
> atb
> Stu B
>
> Please remove "nospam" if replying by e-mail. thankyou.
Dunno Stu, not mine...
How you doing?, long time no hear:)
Pete
Stu B
<pe...@viper.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Dunno Stu, not mine...
>How you doing?, long time no hear:)
Plodding along Pete as us "old uns" do :-)
Look's like ~Tom" <i...@te.spam believed all that
BS from KC about "Karoo Xtra" being abused by it's
user's and leading to it's withdrawal from service.
It's funny that during all the month's of using
"Xtra" engaged tones were like rocking horse
s*** yet when "Freetime" start's they become
more frequent.
Take care,
The Great Green Arkleseizure
Always said, I'd pay for a service if it was worth it. I'm on Anytime.
I want a business account really. But KC have a problem that they don't
want to supply me with a real one. Hence I must now cry foul to OFTEL
(probably) and hope that the local loop is unbundled asap. If KC aren't
prepared to offer a similar service to those out there, then I have no
choice. It was me who phoned KC. I've made more than 20 calls in the
past 4 months. Been promised dual bonding after ANytime came about. Been
told ADSL will be available "sometime". That's now past it's sell by
date. Sure I'll stick with Karoo, like the woman I spoke to agreed,
I have NO choice. When there is a choice, unless KC do something very
soon, I'll run regardless of their "deal".
I will say tho, I'm more than happy with what I have got, being what it
is. I just want more, the need for speed. And I don't mind paying
more:-) I consider 30 good. I'd pay more for dual, but there are limits
to my patients, hence my reply above.
So, to KC. I've been here since the first few days of Karoo, never mind
Xtra. My node name is NOT viper as I keep being told it is. My node name
was assigned, probably the 7th ever. I've defended you because I haven't
had the dial in problems that others have had. I still have NO problems
with my 64k, BUT do more or there will be a time when I will run, and
I'll make sure those people I recommended you to run with me. I have
emailed you a few times, I've run more than 20 times. Don't say I never
gave you the chance. I will be writing to OFTEL with regards 0844
numbers, BT use this for surftime and it's unmetered. WHy can I not use
0844 to get unmetered outside Hull and still pay you £17 per month for
the pleasure. Surely that is something which doe NOT need to be asked
for twice!
Pete
~Tom
than a normal phonecall.. This is from the people who didn't offer unmetered
access 24/7 when the data was taken. And it was free to dial in so people
connected a fair few times a night.
I know so many mates on karoo, who just leave their comps online over night,
I ask them why and they just say "why not?". So I know its being over used,
it was cheaper to leave your comp on until it got cut off rather than
reconnecting (5.5p) every time you wanted to surf. I've been told IGClick
have just thrown a fair amount of people off for "abusing" their system too.
Freeserve and AOL say they will not stand for excessive use. Karoo won't
throw anyone off however much you stay connected.
~Tom
"Stu B" <s...@nospam.hulltown.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:rbok2t0p4kj4oqag1...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 03 Dec 2000 14:18:09 +0000, The Great Green Arkleseizure
> <pe...@viper.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Dunno Stu, not mine...
> >How you doing?, long time no hear:)
>
The Great Green Arkleseizure
> Well, BT have said that on average an internet phone call is 5 times longer
> than a normal phonecall.. This is from the people who didn't offer unmetered
> access 24/7 when the data was taken. And it was free to dial in so people
> connected a fair few times a night.
> I know so many mates on karoo, who just leave their comps online over night,
> I ask them why and they just say "why not?". So I know its being over used,
> it was cheaper to leave your comp on until it got cut off rather than
> reconnecting (5.5p) every time you wanted to surf. I've been told IGClick
> have just thrown a fair amount of people off for "abusing" their system too.
> Freeserve and AOL say they will not stand for excessive use. Karoo won't
> throw anyone off however much you stay connected.
>
> ~Tom
>
Yep, I maybe agree with you - on some points, but................
Unmetered business accounts are available out there with quad bonding, on an
0844 number. Whay am I not allowed by KC to have the same service as
BT provide? Why can KC not offer the same deal? The service I get from KC is
good, I haven't complained once abou the service have I? What I want is parity
with BT land with regards broadband and access. Why can't I have ADSL? BT can
and so provide it. Hell even cable companies provide it? Yes I'd be willing to
pay the going unmetered business rate that BT charge, BUT I've been denied that
by living in Hull.
Pete
Always Sarky
>Well, BT have said that on average an internet phone call is 5 times longer
>than a normal phonecall.. This is from the people who didn't offer unmetered
>access 24/7 when the data was taken. And it was free to dial in so people
>connected a fair few times a night.
>I know so many mates on karoo, who just leave their comps online over night,
>I ask them why and they just say "why not?". So I know its being over used,
>it was cheaper to leave your comp on until it got cut off rather than
>reconnecting (5.5p) every time you wanted to surf. I've been told IGClick
>have just thrown a fair amount of people off for "abusing" their system too.
>Freeserve and AOL say they will not stand for excessive use. Karoo won't
>throw anyone off however much you stay connected.
AOL said "you can stay online as long as you like, you've paid for it,
so you have the right to use it as much or as little as you want",
when it first started, as that changed already?
A.S.
---
C++ is Object Orientated, as a dog, with extra legs nailed on, is an octopus...
---
The Great Green Arkleseizure
Snip:-)
AOL said "you can stay online as long as you like, you've paid for it,
so you have the right to use it as much or as little as you want",
when it first started, as that changed already?A.S.
---
C++ is Object Orientated, as a dog, with extra legs nailed on, is an octopus...
---
I'm not complaining about my access............... bandwith is the name of the game
Pete
~Tom
told everyone dual bond ISDN was coming for Xtra and it never.. I think
OFTEL could be called up on that one. They sure aint perfect but they aint
as bad as many people make out. Not you, you give credit where credits due
it seems :) I was fuming when they upped the Xtra price up by a tenner but
then I read around and asked around.. I found out that it's pretty much
impossible for them to keep running that deal at that price. With this new
FRISCO (i think i recall the name right) they're going to be able to offer
cheaper deals, that is how AOL and that lot are doing it. What I don't
understand is if Karoo can't offer it at such a cheap rate how could any
other ISP? I mean its like their lines. What it indicates to me is either
Karoo are the only ones who are financiing this right and not liquidating
themselves (like many did) or they're the only ones to be squeezing money
out of us anyway they can. I can understand them if they say they can't
afford £15 Xtra as 10 000 people using them.. probably about 3-4 000 abusing
their service.. they can't afford to handle many more than that on their
phone lines at any one time i imagine. Hopefully all these upgrades will
sort this out and it'll be ADSL for all :-) Who knows? but KC aren't stupid,
they realise they've got to do something soon to keep their customer base.
I'm trusting them to come up with the goods when it finally comes to it.
~Tom
> so you have the right to use it as much or as little as you want",
> when it first started, as that changed already?
"He said that as with its existing flat-rate plans, a clause about
reasonable use would be included to stop people using the Net too heavily."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/001201/80/aqsef.html
That is for the new freeserve one, and the AOL is meant to match it exactly
apart from freeserve is £2 cheaper. I have seen it somewhere where it says
how AOL will throw people off for abuse to the service but i can't find that
right now. I'll post if i find it.
~Tom
The Great Green Arkleseizure
The phone line thing?, well they own them all in Hull. My end of town was
upgraded last week, no warning they cut me. Ok I can live with that. I rang
them and asked if there was a problem. I was informed that they were upgrading
the number of possible ISDN lines and that it would take about 2 or 3 hours.
Sure enough it was back on. Later I thought about it and phoned them to ask
about dual bonding. The usual reply "we're considering it sir" was given to me.
It was at this point that one of my conversations above took place. I like
Karoo, I want to stay with them, but I don't see why they should penalise the
people of Hull the way they are. I think it's the lack of bandwidth from Leeds
to London. Forgive me if I'm wrong any KC employees out there reading this, but
I think it's close to the problem.
Pete
Always Sarky
You are most probably right, it's just i remember seeing someone, on
the news, interview someone from AOL and they asked if there would be
any restrictions whatsoever, they even specifically mentioned that
other ISP's were kicking people off because of what they called
"abusing the system" and the guy from AOL said, that won't happen...
(he couldn't have made himself more clear...)
c'ya
A.S.
Always Sarky
<pe...@viper.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
Snip :-)
>Probably not but AOL suck real bad:-)
heh, there's no doubting that their software sucks... :-)
(i *might* of even used it, if it wasn't for that)
>I'm not complaining about my access.....bandwith is the name of the game
heh, maybe you should move to the states Pete? I know someone with
three high-speed connections... and she's paying less than you're for
karoo... :-) (speeds of over 600kb/s isn't even unusual for her...)
A.S.
The Great Green Arkleseizure
Ok I know people in the US and other countries with faster access and it's
cheaper. I know people with T1's and T3's to their houses for equiv of about 50
quid a month. The thing is that North America (Canada to be exact) was where the
Internet started. They were gearing up decades ago. The UK never quite kept up,
but KC have had DSL for 2 years now on test. They've been running dual bonding on
Karoo Standard for about 6 months. I know an ISP in NZ that runs DSL via satellite
and phone. If a country as wild as NZ can do it, why do we lag behind? My god KC
have the infrastructure in place, they've had it for ages. All I'm asking for is
the same service as I'd get from BT. Hell have they had this city so long that
they think they can do what they want?
Pete