INTERVIEW WITH DR BABURAM BHATTARAI
Karnali Messenger-Karnali Forum for Sustainable development
Source: e-kantipur
By Akhilesh Tripathi and Ujir Magar
Excerpts of a recent interview with senior Maoist leader Dr Baburam
Bhattarai:
Q. What agreements were reached between you and the leaders of the
Nepali Congress and CPN-UML, two largest parties of the Seven Party
Alliance (SPA), at the informal meeting at Godavari on July 14?
Dr Baburam Bhattarai: The eight-point agreement signed between the
CPN-M and the SPA on June 16 is a milestone for peace and progressive
change in Nepal. This agreement was a concrete step forward towards
resolving the 10-year-old conflict. The most important understanding
reached at Godavari is, as mentioned in the eight-point agreement, to
dissolve the reinstated House of Representatives, which represents the
old regime, and our people's government, which is the new regime, and
form an interim regime. Another important understanding is to keep both
the armies (Maoist People's Liberation Army and Nepal Army) under
reliable international monitoring until the Constituent Assembly
elections. Thus the Godavari meeting helped clear the uncertainties
over the dissolution of the House that surfaced after the eight-point
agreement. We all agreed that there is no alternative to the
eight-point agreement.
Q. Now there is talk about forming an interim parliament by dissolving
the HoR. What is this interim parliament? Will the existing parliament
be expanded by including representatives from your party to make it the
interim parliament? What will be the structure and size of the interim
parliament?
Bhattarai: The existing parliament has neither legitimacy nor full
representation. The parliamentary parties, just to ensure their role,
reinstated it on May 2 by reaching an agreement with the king.
Therefore, the dissolution of this parliament is inevitable. There is
no question of we joining or sharing this parliament. We have been
demanding the dissolution of this parliament from the very beginning
and the eight-point deal has made it quite clear. After the dissolution
of this parliament, we need an alternative arrangement, which can
exercise sovereignty and state authority during the interim period.
Therefore, it has been our demand from the beginning to hold a wider
political conference of all the three forces of the democratic
movement- the Maoist party, SPA and the civil society- to form an
Interim Council, which would function as the interim legislature and
would represent all the three forces. Some have named this interim
legislature as the interim parliament. Only the seven parties are
represented in the current parliament. We need an interim legislature,
which represents the other two forces, our party and the civil society,
as well. The interim constitution to be formed will have provisions for
the interim legislature, executive and judiciary. We will need a
constitutional court (interim judiciary). Otherwise, the current
judiciary may create hurdles in the way forward.
Q. What will be the position of the king in the interim constitution?
Bhattarai: This issue, too, figured in the Godavari meeting. It is our
proposal that we should announce a democratic republic in the interim
constitution itself because this is the mandate of the April movement.
A democratic republic has always been our agenda. Most of the parties
in the SPA and a majority of the civil society, too, are in favour of a
democratic republic.
Q. It could be the demand or stand of your party. But what decision was
reached between you and the SPA regarding the king's position in the
interim constitution?
Bhattarai: We will discuss this issue in the meting of the top Maoist
and SPA leaders on July 21 (Summit Talks). This will be a major agenda
at the summit talks. We will also discuss the modalities of interim
security, interim legislature, restructuring of the state and the
electoral system. These will be the major agendas of the summit talks.
Q. What will happen to the proclamations the HoR has made so far and
the annual budget announced by the SPA government last week?
Bhattarai: We will have to announce a new budget after the formation of
the interim government. Therefore he (Finance Minister) made a
ridiculous attempt (by presenting the budget). It was totally
unnecessary. He made the budget speech without consulting us. We feel
that it was just a waste of time and energy.
We will incorporate the positive proclamations of this House and also
the positive provisions of the 1990 Constitution into the interim
constitution.
Q. You mean the interim government to be formed will announce another
budget?
Bhattarai: Definitely. There will be a new structure (interim
government) and a new power balance. A new plan will be chalked out for
the social, economic transformation. Then there obviously will have to
be a new budget.
Q. Going back to the concept of this interim parliament, how will it be
represented? Will the existing political separation of the country into
14 zones, 75 districts and 205 electoral constituencies, be followed to
choose the representatives of the interim parliament or will there be
any other method?
Bhattarai: This is an issue to be settled through consensus among the
political forces. In the interim legislature, the seven parties will be
one side, we (Maoists) another side and the civil society and other
professional organisations the third side. The interim legislature will
have the representation of all these three sides. The number (of
representatives in the interim parliament) will be decided through
consensus among all the forces.
Q. Who will lead the interim government?
Bhattarai: We are yet to discuss this issue. This can be settled
through discussions.
Q. Are you ready to join an interim government led by, let's say, the
Nepali Congress or the CPN-UML?
Bhattarai: The Interim Constitution will decide on that. We shouldn't
consider the past while looking at it; (Nepali) Congress and UML will
be just a part of it. A new power equilibrium has emerged after the
recent people's movement. Congress and the UML are old forces. We think
they do not represent the new balance of power.
Q. What will happen to your army?
Bhattarai: We have made ourselves clear on this issue earlier. Both
armies (PLA and Nepal Army) will be kept at specific locations under
international monitoring until the Constituent Assembly elections so
that they remain inactive and cannot interfere with the elections. We
will reach an understanding to develop a mechanism for this so that the
elections are held in a free and fair manner. What I would like to add
here is- this issue also figured in the Godavari meeting and we and
some other parties expressed concern over it- the democratisation of
the royal army which has now been renamed as the Nepal Army is a major
question. But this issue is not being widely debated. People are
raising questions about the management of only the PLA, which is a
pro-democratic army. But nobody cares about the democratisation of the
Nepal Army which is still a royal army and which is anti-democratic.
This is a major issue and should be properly settled by the interim
constitution. If this army is not democratised in the interim period
itself, it may create hurdles in the way to constituent assembly
elections.
Q. NC leader Ramchandra Poudel, who also was present in the Godavari
meeting, has said that the present House of Representatives cannot be
dissolved.
Bhattarai: We have already reached an agreement (to dissolve the
House). How can he say that now? This will merely be an attempt to
block the peace process and invite conflict; it will be suicidal for
them (seven parties). Backing away from the agreement would be a
violation of the agreement and would mean continuation of the conflict.
Q. At the Godavari meeting, an agreement was reached to help
rehabilitate the people who have been displaced and whose land and
property have been seized by your party during the 10 years of
conflict. When will this agreement be implemented?
Bhattarai: It has been made clear in the 12-point understanding,
eight-point understanding and the 25-point (ceasefire) code of conduct.
Its implementation has also begun. Some difficulties have, however,
been observed in the implementation process at some places. To address
this, an agreement has been reached to form a mechanism at the central
level with representatives from all parties. The problems seen in the
implementation will be settled by this mechanism as per the 12-point
understanding.
Q. We have a situation here where the current SPA government has
accepted ceremonial monarchy; it has even allocated a certain budget
for the royal palace. On the other hand, your dialogue with the
government, too, is going side by side. Is it an indication that your
party, too, has accepted a ceremonial monarchy?
Bhattarai: There is no question of us accepting any form of monarchy.
No one should be confused. A democratic republic has been our
continuous demand since the royal palace massacre in 2001.
Q. What will be the king's situation when you join the interim
government?
Bhattarai: Our proposal is, let's declare Nepal a democratic republic
through the interim constitution itself. But it is still under
discussion. Let's see how it goes. It won't be appropriate to say more
than this right now.
Q. Your party and the SPA were together in the April Movement. The
recent political change was possible through your joint efforts. But in
the aftermath of the movement, there still seems to be some lack of
trust between your party and the SPA. Many times you have acted like
rebels and the SPA as the state. What could be the reasons?
Bhattarai: The main reason is the seven parties sometimes forget that
the main fight is against the monarchy. We realised that we cannot
defeat the monarchy by fighting against it separately. Therefore we
launched a joint movement. The 12-point understanding was an expression
of this realisation. The movement became successful because of the
12-point understanding. And the movement's mandate is to abolish
monarchy and establish a democratic republic. But they (SPA) sometimes
forget that the monarchy is our common enemy and start considering us
as their enemy. Their lies the problem. At the Godavari meeting, we
raised this issue and asked them, "Who do you consider your main enemy-
we or the king?" Then they accepted that the king is the common enemy.
Q. Isn't your armed force also a reason for their worry and the lack of
trust between you?
Bhattarai: Our arms are not against them (SPA) and democracy. They are
against the monarchy and the royal army. They don't need to fear our
arms. We told them (SPA leaders, at Godavari) that they don't fear the
weapons of the king, who has cheated them time and again, but always
raise the issue of our arms. Then they realised and agreed for the
democratisation of the royal army. This has pushed us closer to the
meeting point.
Q. Some parliamentarians are saying that the dissolution of parliament
will create a vacuum which could encourage the regressive elements.
Bhattarai: This has no logic. What did this parliament do? Could it
stop the King's autocracy? Could it stop his February 1 move? Everybody
should be clear that this parliament was reinstated by the popular
movement based on the 12-point understanding. This parliament was
revived through people power. Thus it is clear that this parliament is
nothing in itself; the king can do anything with it whenever he likes.
Therefore it's not important whether this parliament remains or not;
the most important thing is unity of the people, the unity among the
allies of the democratic movement. If the unity among the democratic
forces is strong, we can form a body that can exercise sovereignty and
state authority.
Q. Ambassadors of some powerful countries have said that if the Maoists
join an interim government without decommissioning their army, then the
interim government formed in this way will not get international
acknowledgement and support. What do you say?
Bhattarai: This is not based on facts. World history of conflict
resolution shows that nowhere in the world- from South Africa to,
Guatemala of Latin America to East Timor to Ireland- have the rebels
given up arms before the final step of the conflict resolution process.
People like Moriarty who are saying so have forgotten world history. We
shouldn't be disillusioned by such statements.
Q. You don't want permanent management of your arms before the
constituent assembly elections. This means you are keeping the option
to go back to war open until the elections?
Bhattarai: What about the arms of the royal army that have been time
and again used against democracy since 1960? It's clear that the royal
army's weapons are not under the government's control. Recently the
generals went to the palace to greet the king and fired cannons to
celebrate his birthday against the government's directive. This clearly
shows the royal army, whose name has been changed, is not under
government control. Therefore, the real danger is from the royal army.
Q. You participated in the past peace talks also. How much hopeful are
you of the success of the peace process this time?
Bhattarai: The situation is different now. This time we and the SPA
jointly launched the movement based on the 12-point understanding. In
this way, we are friendly forces of the movement. The monarchy is much
weaker now as compared to the past. If the unity among the seven
parties, our party and the civil society is strengthened, we can defeat
the monarchy and ensure the establishment of a democratic republic and
peace in the country. Therefore, we are much hopeful of the success of
the peace process this time. But we are not completely assured. The SPA
leadership will have to play a progressive role for the success of the
peace process.
>From our side, we will do all we can to make the peace process
successful. Because we really want the restructuring of the state and
all problems related to caste, region and gender resolved. We want
peace. We are committed and will try to establish peace in the country
until the end. But if some international powers intervene and do not
let this happen, people will rise up again. But, as our chairman has
also said, we won't return to the jungle. We will lead the rebellion
from here in Kathmandu.
Q. You won't return to war?
Bhattarai: Surely not. The entire Nepali people want peace and
progressive change in the country. Then how can we want war? The people
should rise up against and defeat those who want war. We will help the
people in that rebellion.
Q. Your party quite often talks about the restructuring of the state.
How do you plan to restructure the state? How different will it be from
the existing political separation of the country into five development
regions, 14 zones and 75 districts?
Bhattarai: These development regions, zones and districts are just the
revenue collection units of the old regime. These administrative units
which they have made to maintain the so-called law and order are very
much centralized and represent a unitary state. This did not solve the
problems of the people. We should change this unitary state system into
a federal state system based on regional autonomy. This can be done
based on the nine different autonomous regions which we have formed-
Seti, Mahakali, Karnali, Magarat, Tamuwan, Newa, Tamang, Kirant and
Madhes autonomous regions. This is the restructuring of the state we
have been talking about.
Q. Does the SPA agree with this concept of yours?
Bhattarai: We are discussing this with the SPA. Some parties of the SPA
have agreed while some are not clear about it. This too will be a major
agenda at the Summit talks. It is our firm stand that the restructuring
of the state should be done based on the federal governance system.
Q. Some say that you will return to the jungle again if the constituent
assembly elections are not as per your expectations?
Bhattarai: No way. We will not return to the jungle. In the first
place, we don't think that the Nepali people will not support our
forward-looking agenda in the constituent assembly elections. We are,
in fact, convinced that the people will vote for peace, complete
democracy and progressive change, if free and fair constituent assembly
elections are held. However, it is our public commitment that we will
accept the elections result even if it is not as per our expectation.
Then we will continue peaceful struggle until we can achieve the
progressive change we want.
Q. Will the interim constitution have a ceremonial or any other form of
monarchy?
Bhattarai: It won't be acceptable to us. We have already said that we
should declare Nepal a democratic republic in the preamble of the
interim constitution. This is our proposal and is still under
discussion.
Q. But isn't it that the major parties of the SPA want to keep a
ceremonial or some other form of monarchy?
Bhattarai: Their relevance will end if they do not realize the need of
history. In Nepal, monarchy is a regressive force, parliamentary
parties or the SPA are status quo-ist forces, and we are a progressive
force. Right now, the progressive and status quo-ist forces should
unite to defeat the regressive force.
Q. But some people are saying that it will be more democratic to let
the people decide the fate of monarchy in the constituent assembly
elections. What's your take on this?
Bhattarai: The constituent assembly will decide on the restructuring of
the state by resolving the social, economic and cultural problems.
Therefore, the fate of monarchy should be decided before the
constituent assembly elections. Our alternative proposal is, let's
decide the fate of the monarchy during the constituent assembly
elections. Let's give the people a choice between monarchy or a
democratic republic through a separate referendum while holding the
constituent assembly elections. The referendum will decide the fate of
monarchy and the constituent assembly elections the restructuring of
the state. We will discuss this proposal also.
Posted on: 2006-07-17 04:19:54 (Server Time)